 |
|
|
|
|
April 4th, 2011
10:22 AM ET
Petraeus condemns Quran burning as protests rage onCheck out CNN.com's Afghanistan Crossroads blog for the latest developments, and our Belief Blog timeline of Terry Jones. Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) - Top U.S. officials in Afghanistan on Sunday condemned the burning of a Quran in the United States that sparked three days of protests in which more than 20 people died. Burning the Muslim holy book "was hateful, it was intolerant and it was extremely disrespectful and again, we condemn it in the strongest manner possible," said Gen. David Petraeus, who heads the U.S.-led international forces in Afghanistan. U.S. Ambassador Karl Eikenberry said in a statement that Americans respect the Quran "and all religious texts and deplore any action that shows disrespect to any religious faith." "At the same time, I want to emphasize, as have many Afghan leaders, that to attack and kill innocent people in response to the deplorable act of one individual is outrageous, and an affront to human decency and dignity," Eikenbery's statement said. Read the full story here about Gen Petraeus' comments on the Quran burning.
« Previous entryMy Take: Snap out of spiritual slump with Lent
|
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
|
|
|
Muneef.. In your fairy tale the answers that Abu Hanifah gave had no reference and so have no validity. He claims Allah existed first – before history and before time how would any one know that.. just a convenient religious marketing tool to make sure their man was in place to start it all.. who needs proof.. just say it.
THE FOUR GREAT IMAAMS
IMAAM ABU HANIFAH (R.A.)
IMAAM MAALIK (R.A.)
IMAAM SHAFI’EE (R.A.)
IMAAM AHMAD (R.A.)
http://www.inter-islam.org/Biographies/4imam.htm
The Rightly-Guided Caliphs & The Four Imams
Contents
The First Caliph, Abu Bakr (632-634 A.C.)
The Second Caliph, 'Umar (634-644 A.C.)
The Third Caliph, Uthman (644-656 A.C.)
The Fourth Caliph, Ali (656-661 A.C.)
Abu Hanifa
Shafi'i
Malik
Ahmad
http://www.islamicweb.com/history/caliphs_imams.htm
A man went to Hazrat Ali Ben Abi Taleb and asked him the answers of the following four questions :
1. What is “Wajeb” (Obligatory) and what is”Awjab” (most obligatory).
2. What is “Qareeb” (Near) and what is “Aqrab” (nearest).
3. What is “Ajeeb” (strange) and what is “A’ajab” (strangest).
4. What is “Sa’ab” (difficult) and what is “Asa’ab” (most difficult).
Hazrat Ali replied as follows:
Obligatory is the obedience of God and most obligatory is to abandon sins.
Near is the Day of Judgment and nearest is the death.
Strange is this World and strangest is to love this world.
Difficult is grave and most difficult is going to it without preparation.
Words of man ?
Is it not that science is a word of man ,but you still believe in ?
Was not Philosophy and wisdom a word of man that you might be adapting in you life ?
Well my dear those Imams have derived their out spoken and written words from the knowledge they gained from the Holy Books that were the source of all developed knowledge that humanity is so proud of today although still couldn't explain major questions about the whole universe creations that we live floating within.
Science failed to translate the simple words given in the holy book's that had speaking to men of lesser mentality few thousands years back but managed to understand it and develop it into one day spoken of Islamic nations that has brought forward an advanced knowledge the basic of all present science and knowledge while the present century and modern man require's it in more advanced terms of words and into one international language,the modern languages of science or philosophy that modern scholars had failed to translate or explain bringing it forward to modern times understanding.
Most of the general knowledge and wisdom man has gained from those books mentioned by the Quran/Farqan;
"Al-Baqara sura 02:
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
Even as We have sent unto you a messenger from among you, who reciteth unto you Our revelations and causeth you to grow, and teacheth you the Scripture and wisdom, and teacheth you that which ye knew not. (151)."
"Al-E-Imran sura 03:
And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel, (48)."
"Al-E-Imran sura 03:
Allah verily hath shown grace to the believers by sending unto them a messenger of their own who reciteth unto them His revelations, and causeth them to grow, and teacheth them the Scripture and wisdom; although before (he came to them) they were in flagrant error. (164)."
It is all in the Holy Books where a single word or a sentence could contains a whole many pictures as a hundred of words or sentences with in it and not just as a solid one word as one might think or find, this is not the least for the Arabic language,the poetry language of the area before it became of the Quran which certified for it self being landed in Arabic to defeat the best of poets of the Area with it's firmness and the challenge within it that even if they poets joined together with Jinn to bring a similar verses would fail to do so....;
"Yusuf sura 12:
Alif. Lam. Ra. These are verse of the Scripture that maketh plain. (1) Lo! We have revealed it, a Lecture in Arabic, that ye may understand. (2) We narrate unto thee (Muhammad) the best of narratives in that We have inspired in thee this Qur'an, though aforetime thou wast of the heedless. (3)."
"Ta-Ha sura 20:
Thus we have revealed it as a Lecture in Arabic, and have displayed therein certain threats, that peradventure they may keep from evil or that it may cause them to take heed. (113) Then exalted be Allah, the True King! And hasten not (O Muhammad) with the Qur'an ere its revelation hath been perfected unto thee, and say: My Lord! Increase me in knowledge. (114)."
"Az-Zumar sura 39:
And verily We have coined for mankind in this Qur'an all kinds of similitudes, that haply they may reflect; (27) A Lecture in Arabic, containing no crookedness, that haply they may ward off (evil). (28)."
Disbelief and laziness has over taken men of knowledge and scholars away from untangling the mysteries and the hidden secrets that are within the letters and words into more advanced modern terms that could be understood by scholars and nations bringing them into stimulating their debates and coordination towards perfection for the sake of science and knowledge that God wanted us to read and learn. After all we should remember that we are being challenged by God Almighty to go on discovering the universe,the heavens;
"Ar-Rahman sura 55:
O company of jinn and men, if ye have power to penetrate (all) regions of the heavens and the earth, then penetrate (them)! Ye will never penetrate them save with (Our) sanction. (33)."
That sanction is the science achieved which with out God's inspiration to us from his books might not be able to penetrate;
"Ta-Ha sura 20:
Then exalted be Allah, the True King! And hasten not (O Muhammad) with the Qur'an ere its revelation hath been perfected unto thee, and say: My Lord! Increase me in knowledge. (114)."
If we ought to accept the challenge then we are to take science in parall with the Holy Books,it is only then we would become to know which are the words of God and which are the words of men, we would become to know the truth from false...!!
The many translations of old testaments and what followed it might have made most words become words of man, since language to language might have made words solid if not different, therefore might have lost touch but no harm in trying.., while we find the case is quite different for the Arabic Quran which came as a "Forqan" meaning as a separator between truth and false of the elder holy books...
The Quran came in one Arabic language and in a very rich language, so why not science try to challenge those final scriptures,since only by that we will be able to tell the "Farqan" between the truth and false surrounding our lives..
Our confidence is from the confidence of our Written Holy Books that we submit to all of it's words and teachings for being of God the Creator of all that we know of and all that we do not know of..?
Al-Isra sura 17:
Say: Verily, though mankind and the jinn should assemble to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof though they were helpers one of another. (88) And verily We have displayed for mankind in this Qur'an all kinds of similitudes, but most of mankind refuse aught save disbelief. (89)..
Peace to all.
All about Islam History.
http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/history/caliphs.htm
http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/history/umayyad.htm
http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/history/abbasid.htm
http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/history/ottoman.htm
Abu Hanifah;
Many people – including Muslims ask: “Where is God or Allah? What Image does God or Allah have?”
These questions cannot be easily answered, but let’s see how Imam Abu Hanifah responded when he was asked such questions by nonbelievers.
To those who ask: “Where is God or Allah?”
The atheists asked Abu Hanifah:
“When was your Lord born?”
Abu Hanifah replied:
“Allah existed first – before history and before time.
He added:
“What comes before three?”
They replied: “Two.”
He asked:
“What comes before two?”
They replied: “One.”
Abu Hanifah said:
“What comes before one?”
They replied: “Nothing.”
He said: “If the number ‘one’ is not preceded by anything, then how can the True One and Only God (Allah) be preceded by anything. Allah is Ancient and Eternal. Nothing precedes Him.”
They asked:
“In which direction does your Lord move?”
He asked: “If you bring a lantern into a dark place, in which direction will its light move?”
They replied: “In every direction.”
Abu Hanifah said:
“If this is how the lan-tern’s light r-ad-ia-tes, then how about Allah’s Light – the Light of the Heavens and the Earth?”
They said: “Define your Lord’s en-t-ity. Is your Lord solid like iron; liquid like water; or gas-e-ous like smoke or va-por?”
He asked: “Have you ever sat beside a dying patient?”
They said: “Yes, we have.
He added: "Did he speak to you after he was pro-noun-ced dead?"
They said: "No."
Abu Hanifah asked: “Before he died, did he not talk and move?”
They said: “Yes.”
He said: “What changed him?”
They said: “His soul departed.”
He said: “Then isn’t it true that his soul left his body?
They said: “Yes.”
Abu Hanifah asked: “Could you describe his soul? Is it solid like iron; liq-uid like water; or gas-e-ous like smoke or va-por?”
They replied: “We know nothing about it.”
He said: “If you cannot define the en-t-ity of this created soul, then how can you expect me to describe the Divine En-t-ity.”
**********
Let’s repeat this prayer together: “Oh, Allah.”
Allah, help me to uphold the truth against ty-r-ants; and prevent me from advocating in-just-ice to gain the ap-pla-use of the weak.
Oh Allah, if you make me rich, do not deprive me of happiness.
If you grant me strength, do not take away my mental fa-c-u-lties.
If you make me successful, do not deprive me of modesty.
If you make me modest, do not deprive me of my pride and dig-nity.
Oh Allah, teach me to love others as much as I love myself.
Teach me to judge myself before I judge others.
Teach me that tolerance is the greatest strength.
And that ven-ge-ance is the first sign of weakness.
Oh Allah, if you grant me suc-cess,do not blind me by van-i-ty.
Do not make me de-spair if I fail.
Please let me always remember that failure pre-ced-es success.
Oh Allah, if you deprive me of my wealth, do not let me de-spair.
If you take away my success, give me the strength to overcome failure.
If you deprive me of good health, do not deprive me of faith.
Oh Allah, if I hurt others, give me the strength to apologize.
If people hurt me, give me the strength to forgive.
If I am ob-liv-i-ous to Thee, do not deprive me of Your Forgiveness and Patience.
Oh Allah, You are the All-Powerful, All-Merciful and All-Capable Ameen.
Saving 1.5 billion lost Muslims:
There never was and never will be any angels i.e. no Gabriel, no Islam and therefore no more koranic-driven acts of terror and horror.
Saving 2 billion lost Christians:
There was and never will be any bodily resurrections i.e. No Easter, no Christianity
Saving 15.5 million Orthodox followers of Judaism:
Abraham and Moses never existed.
Added details upon request
What if you accidentally burned a Koran, a King James Bible, a copy of the Book of Dynatics, a copy of Battlefield Earth, the Satanic Bible, the Book of Mormon, a Buddha statue, a picture of the Virgin Mary and then accidentally skeeted all over the remains through mangasm.
idiot
@ Muneef
Can you tell us what's happening in your country (and maybe Oman as well) with regards to political leadership? Has your president stepped down? If so, who will fill the void in leadership?
BG.
Thanks for asking but at the moment plenty of suffering while more it becomes with prolonging the issues demanded although as seems war lords are behind those innocent youths awaiting the president to withdraw in order for them to take over dividing the country and become more of world threats, after all I trust in our present president than any of those who are promising prosperity and peace....those are like hyenas awaiting a lion to end his feast and go leaving behind the left overs of the prey...we just hope our president be wise enough to overcome these difficulties since no one we can think of has the strength to control the whole country as he did before all this mess although he needed to be reminded of the will and power the population has when he becomes careless...I know he had learned the lesson and repented but can that be enough for him to regain the power and the faithfulness of his populations....Only God knows what in stored for us the coming days but until the date things become restored,the bloodshed and life losses will continue be seen and heard of...
Al-Baqara sura 02:
And surely We shall try you with something of fear and hunger, and loss of wealth and lives and crops; but give glad tidings to the steadfast, (155) Who say, when a misfortune striketh them: Lo! we are Allah's and lo! unto Him we are returning. (156) Such are they on whom are blessings from their Lord, and mercy. Such are the rightly guided. (157).
Both are wrong with such acts as all end up insulting God and the inner heart sensitive of any Holy Faith Messengers of God,angels,books,worship houses.
Al-Hujraat sura 49: 10 to 13 failed to post for moderations..
http://www.submission.org/suras/sura49.html
@Muneef – You foolish man. Your Q'uran says to kill many different types of people. Don't bother trying to tell us different, as we know your Q'uran also says that lying is permissible to advance the cause of Islam.
You are a liar, for I have read some of your other posts, therefore I say you are a liar, having seen those lies first hand.
Your religion is indeed evil and not peaceful. So sorry to hear of your lack of wisdom, but live in peace and you might survive.
Live in war and you might survive. But whether you live in war or peace, your religion is evil.
Do not protest. This is not open to debate with me.
OK if that what you want then go to Hell who cares what you think. Beside who ever call people as liars is the biggest liars of all....since being judgmental as if some God gave you authority to judge...go worship your idol that comes with nine hands or more...It is no pleasure of mine to debate with those who call people liars out of nothing...
@Chooba Nye – How about me? Can I protest? Wny attack this guy? Just because he's the lone Muslim posting here?
What sort of lame excuse could you possibly have for being such an a**-hole? I don't like religion but I don't go around attacking people do I? Oh, wait, I kinda do. Damn.
Well, you're just being rude as hell anyway. Beyond what is useful or called for. You should apologize, but I won't hold my breath waiting after reading your post. I wish we could send you over there to use up that energy, but they'd probably kill you as soon as you got off the plane. Waste of gas. Gas is very expensive now. People like you are a dime a dozen.
@Muneef – Go back to whatever you were doing. We need more Muslims on here to debate with. One crazy person is not who everyone is. Everyone needs to be able to talk here. You are rare enough that we need to keep you around.
Sorry you had to receive such a nasty post.
Saving 1.5 billion lost Muslims:
There never was and never will be any angels i.e. no Gabriel, no Islam
@Muneef,
As a Chatholic I would like to say welcome to the blog and please ingnore the idiot saying your relegion is evil. LIke most fools Chooba Nye is confusing the relgion for a small precentage of its followers. While I may not agree with everything you think I for one appreciate your willingness to have a polite open discussion and respect your faith ad chice to follow your faith.
@Chooba Nye.
Shut up
Thank you all for your kindness which I most appreciate of you since that was not the first incident nor will be the last,but was always comforting to see many of you to stand by Ones Rights to say what he has whether agreeec with or not...
So thanks again to all such as Vaytin and Ed...
It is true that in America we have freedom of speech, we also have laws. Inciting a riot is a law, one that this pastor is breaking. Justice is putting this pastor in jail for breaking it. Our soldiers and others are in harms way because of this foolish man. Surely there is a law to muzzle his mouth. He is taking the freedom of speech too far.
Very true Betty. The same for the church that protest military funerals. these type of people need to be locked up!
ok and what is too far for muslims because even though we can have a great day here in USA why are they rioting? What is your excuse for that? These people dont care. Remember Sept. 11th 2001 what was the reason for over 3000 deaths? I had to go New Jersey because 1 of my best friends died there and I was the closest to be able to pick up his 2 daughters. What excuse should I have told those little girls for their father dying? Because USA has helped every European country, because USA believes in Freedom and has fought for those freedoms several times, because USA believes in helping our fellow man to survive, because of all that their father deserved to die?
They are always rioting about something.
@ DV
We arnt making excuses for them. There is no excuse. But you are taking this out of topic. Afghanis had nothing to do with 9/11. There was not any protests until the afg prez thought it would be a good idea to demand an apology after the fact. It was also said by us army that these protest were small and peaceful and any violence was perpatraded by insurgents being oppurtunistic. Why fuel these crazy individuals. Why give them a reason to go to the streets. Terry Jones is sick, backwards idiot.
Darrel, right now we have American soldiers in the middle east, most of them fighting because of what happened on 9/11. Very few Americans support terrorists. Most of us support our troops. That's why we don't try to make their lives more difficult by creating more unrest in the middle east. That's why we try not to give recruiting tools to our enemies.
This was a stupid, pointless gesture that served only to glorify an individual and incite radicals. It created problems but solved none.
@tallulah13 – That's a much better post. If you had written it that way in the beginning I would have agreed right off.
Sorry.
@Vaytin – there are always consequences, that doesn't mean they directly affect the ones making the speech, statement, action, etc. Example: 9/11 happens, many citizens blame all Muslims or the religion of Islam, Americans beat and kill an American Sikh becuase they think he is Muslim. He was beaten and killed because of someone elses action and then anothers reaction. He had nothing to do with the events before hand but he paid the deadly price. Similar to many American soldiers dying based on the actions and reactions of government officials.
The point I was trying to make was, ppl like pastor Jones like to use their freedom of speech not knowing that in turn they are causing more tension. He has no point to be made by burning the Quran (that he can not make verbally) and it acheives nothing for him, same as the American flag burning in other countries.
When ppl across other countries were shown cheering when 9/11 happened, American citizens that were originally from those countries living in America were threatened and looked upon with hate, even though they again had nothing to do with the burnings themselves. Need more examples? Easy concept to understand but hard to fathom that what we say today can affect someones life tomorrow.
I am still saying that the actions of an idividual are his/her choice and they should be held accountable but there are ppl on the edge and others like to talk from the safety of their homes not knowing that what they say can put others in harms way. I'm sure Petraeus knows this and this is why he issued the statement.
@GSA – Thanks, but I don't quite follow your line of reasoning. It's easy to be an armchair general, yes, but where will you draw the line? Our troops have enough problems without people getting worked up over Jones, yes, but that doesn't mean that they can't get worked up over something else. They have, they will, and it has been that way since Muhamed the sleazeball first started being a shlthead back in the day.
It doesn't matter what anyone says or does to Muslims, they will seek the death of others regardless. They have to. Their god told them so. It's written in their Q'uran!
You just don't understand how insane religion can be – this isn't like a hostage situation at your local bank, this is psychotic people doing psychotic things using their religion as a convenient excuse to hide behind.
Your attempts to trace actual culpability keep running up against the wall of evidence to the contrary. Sorry, but that's the way I see it.
And again, there is an easy solution:
The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of koranic myths:
( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)
Are you ready?
Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.
The First Five of the 77 Branches:
"1. Belief in Allah"
aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your cleansing neurons.
"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."
Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".
"3. To believe in the existence of angels."
A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.
"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."
Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.
Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.
Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.
"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."
Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.
Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!
Unfortunately, there are not many Muslim commentators/readers on this blog so the "two-minute" cure is not getting to those who need it. If you have a Muslim friend, send him a copy and help save the world.
Analogous steps are available for deprogramming the myths of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Paganism at your request.
@Reality
whatever
You wouldn't know your a*s from your elbow. Silly...
A short version for those who are reading challenged:
Saving 1.5 billion lost Muslims:
There never was and never will be any angels i.e. no Gabriel, no Islam
And again Reality can repeatedly cut and paste
Ed,
It is called equal-opportunity th-umping. Would you like some "thum-ptations on the deprogramming of Christianity?
@Reality
well at least you did something other than cut and paste for once. NO I don't want you to cut a paste a reprogamming ritual you read some where. I'm not asking you to change your faith why do you keep asking me to change mine. Your choice is as it should be it is your own. You choose to close your heart and mind to God and in the same evangelic way you complain about the faithful using try to change every one else. The difference they ask you to beleive in something. You ask every one to believe in noting. Yet you are so sure your way is better. I am equally sure its not. But unlike you I respect your choice and your right to make it. Please learn to respect mine
Ed.
The Apostles' Creed 2011: (updated version and "Reality authored" based on the studies of historians and theologians during the past 200 years)
I might believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven.
I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)
Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,
He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
Jerusalem.
Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.
Amen
@tallulah13 – every now and then I think of a good one, glad you appreciate it. When I wrote that I didn't mean any disrespect for the men and women serving in the US military nor any disrespect for @Darrel V or his father. Just wanted to express my freedom of speech by dropping a gem of a joke.
I'm all for freedom of speech but just because someone has a right to say or do something doesn't mean there will not be any consequences. This pastor knew what he was doing and what the results would be, he did it anyways, his choice and i'm sure he will hear more flack for it, maybe death threats, etc. Just like ppl have the right to burn the American flag if they so choose to but they need to know that they too will have consequences, it goes both ways.
@GSA – Yet your "consequences" are based on the reactions of -other people- and not on anything physical per se.
Muslims have been burning flags for hundreds of years. Where are these "consequences" you speak of?
If I had read your other post I would have realized we agree on much of this. I apologize for my snap judgement about you joke but I have family who earned some of those medals and they are simply put nothing to be joked about. However I reacted pooly to you rcomment and was out of line so I'm sorry
@Darrel V – will he also hit me with the yellow moons and green clovers?
While I have nothing but respect for our military and their sacrifices, that had me laughing out loud.
@GSA that was out of line you have to to something heroic to get either the bronze or silver star and 2 things to get both probably seperateevents. A purple heart is awarded to some one wounded in combat for you to treat them like a box of kids cereal is disrepectful and just wrong. Obciously you have no appreciation for better man then you have done for you. of all the people on this blog you may be the worst.
CNN failed to “go beyond border” and report on the following news from the 25th of March 2011:
Muslims in Ethiopia have torched 69 Christian churches, a Bible school and an orphanage –in less than one month. Not content with this alone, at least two Christians have been murdered simply because they were Christian. As the “machete-wielding” Muslims warned that more killings would be coming, thousands of Christians have fled in fear. Ethiopian Christians, who have been dominant in their country since the 4th century, are in a state of crisis due to the “religious hatred and violence” of their Muslim neighbors.
That's the "religion of peace" isn't it? How wonderful of them. Let's all hold hands and sing "Kumbayah".
Vatin –
It's tough to hold hands when you don't have one to hold.
@Weatherman – True. I was only being sarcastic, though. There are some who think "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess" but they never answer when I ask about what people who have lost their legs or tongues are supposed to do at that time. I suspect they don't have an answer because their Bible does not give them one. It's not good for stuff like that.
Vaytin
@Weatherman – True. I was only being sarcastic, though. There are some who think "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess" but they never answer when I ask about what people who have lost their legs or tongues are supposed to do at that time. I suspect they don't have an answer because their Bible does not give them one. It's not good for stuff like that.
---------
Let me help you out with that. There is no deformity in heaven. That a would include those who will stand before the judgement seat of God! You are looking at a spiritual truth with earthly understanding!
Come to my door saying I cant use my freedoms and I will beat you with the Purple Heart, Bronze Star, and the Silver Star my dad got from WWII
So you haven't accomplished anything with your life that you could beat them with?
@Big Bang – That's pretty rude. Do you think everyone is like you or something? They're not.
Hey, Big Bang,
How about my prosthetic leg upside your head? So much for pleasantries. Now tell us where YOU served, alpha-hotel.
@Darrel V,
Thanks to ur dad my uncles in Arlington with 2 silver and 1 bronze star. I fully agree you have the right to freedom of expression. Burning something is not speech but it is expression. But there is a difference between can and should. You can burn a book but should not. First its disrespectful second it makes you look afraid of what is in the book. The Islamic community does need to learn to respect others as much as they want to be respected, but so do many other groups. I agree you have the right to burn a Quran to express yourself. But doing so attempts to deny freedom of relegion to muslims. Freedom of relegion is something else ur father the Hero and my uncle the other hero fought for. Lets honor what the did by respecting others rights not using ours to insults them.
WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH, WHY DO THOSE A******S GET TO BURN OUR STUFF AND WE SAY OH ITS OK, BUT WHEN WE PRACTICE OUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH WE GET TOLD BAD BAD AMERICAN I SAY COME TO MY DOOR AND SAY IT TO MY FACE BECAUSE IT WELL BE THE LAST THING THEY SAY. MY DAD FOUGHT IN WWII FOR MY FREEDOMS AND I WILL NOT STOP USING THOSE FREEDOMS FOR ANYONE!!!!!!!
CAPS LOCK!
Inside voice please.
"get to burn our stuff" ? .......OK.......so they came and took your book off your shelf, and then flew back to Pakistan ? Did they sneak in ? What were you doing ? Did they sell you a WatchTower ?
BTW, left hand side of your keyboard, third key up, .......tap it once. Everyone will thank you.
Burn more Korans. Draw out the extremists. Take them down. Mission accomplished. It's why we were there in the first place, right? To get the extremists who caused 9/11?
In a guerilla war the problem is that it's hard to tell the bad guys from the civilians. If the bad guys have a weakness that makes them show themselves they're easier to take out. That way only the moderate Muslims are left, which is what we wanted anyway.
If we exploit this weakness and get the job done we can go home.
And in order to draw out extremist pro-lifers in America, we should kill a couple of babies in the public square. Those that become outraged should immediately be rounded up and shot.
What are you two smoking?
Despite the legality, Mr. Jones should be ashamed of himself. He knew there would be consequences for his actions, but decided that his own agenda was more important than the lives of soldiers and innocents. He gave ammunition to terrorists, while he stayed in his comfortable home for no better reason than to appease his own ego.
Yes, its wrong that people should kill over a book (any book) but Jones had the choice: Do harm or do no harm. He chose to hurt others and in doing so, he has shown the world that the only thing he worships is himself.
its called FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Why do they get to burn our flag, pictures of our president, say stuff like death to American infidels oh and kill thousands of innocent people on 9/11 but we dont get the same FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
Yes, we have freedom of speech, it's probably the most important right we have and it's why Jones will not be punished for his actions. But there is also simple right and wrong.
Jones knew there would be consequences for his actions, and that those consequences would take place half a world away. He hides behind his rights in the safety of his home, while endangering those charged with protecting those rights, along with any innocent that happens to be in the way. He may hate terrorists (I don't think anyone is terribly fond of them), but to commit an act that he KNEW would cause violence, simply to elevate himself in the eyes of his supporters, was completely selfish and self-serving. Therefore I condemn him as a vain, useless coward.
@tallulah13 – For Jones to KNOW what you say he knew, he would have to be psychic, not just psychotic.
This is not a simple apple falling out of a tree, this is people who may or may not react as you think they would on the other side of the world. Their reactions are all on them and not Jones. You may as well say that we are all guilty of sin because someone else did something wrong. Total BS all the way.
You may not have been aware of this, but Jones threatened to do this before, on 9/11 last year.
This report was posted by the guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 8 September 2010 10.31 BST
"The plans have been greeted with alarm in the Middle Eastern press. Lebanon's Daily Star said they were "likely to ignite a fire of rage that could consume swathes of the globe", while United Arab Emirates paper the Khaleej Times describe the planned burning as "rabid and insane".
David Petraeus, the US and Nato commander in Afghanistan, warned of retaliatory action against US troops after protests took place in the capital Kabul at which effigies of Jones were burned alongside the American flag.
White House spokesman Robert Gibbs echoed the concerns raised by Petraeus. "Any type of activity like that that puts our troops in harm's way would be a concern to this administration," Gibbs said.
Jones said he "understood" those concerns but would press ahead anyway."
You cannot say that Jones was unaware that there would be consequences for his actions. He knew very well. He said as much.
Yes, he is protected by our freedom of speech but with rights come responsibilities. Jones acted in a selfish, irresponsible manner, putting the lives of our soldiers and innocent bystanders in danger. He created another recruiting tool for terrorists for no better reason than to massage his own ego. There is no defense for that
@tallulah13 – Yet those were "concerns" and not a "clear and present danger" as you seem to imply. That's why the politicians and military people used the word "concern". There was only a suggestion of likelyhood, not a guaranteed result.
A big difference and a bit of wiggle-room for Jones, who cannot see the future any better than the rest of us.
If those Muslims are so predictable, then why aren't they dealt with more efficiently? Answer: Because they are not predictable, nor do they have standards even in a theocratic country that cannot be over-ridden by the psychotics among them.
They are attempting to hold us hostage to their demands. Give in to their demands and you get more demands. Where will it end? When will you figure out the facts of the matter? Those murderers wanted to murder people unrelated to the US, so why predicate it upon an American expressing his religion? They killed UN workers. Some have said that it was only to loot the buildings and not in honest response to what Jones did. Where's your vaunted "no excuse" argument there?
I don't condone the actions of ANYONE who kills or harms others for religion. However, this article is about Jones and his actions. He knew there would be consequences. There had already been protests in Kabul, just from his mere threat to burn the quran, as was mentioned in the article. Do you imagine, do you think Jones imagined, that the response would be any less to the actual burning of a quran? If so, you delude only yourself.
Yes, as an American citizen he had the legal right to burn the quran. But as an American citizen he had a moral responsibility to consider the consequences of his action. He knew that people could be hurt, that American soldiers would face increased pressure, but safe in his home, he was only concerned with his own self-importance. You may call it what you will. I believe in personal accountability, so when I see someone endangering others for their own vainglory, I call it selfish cowardice.
@tallulah13 – What is this "moral responsibility" you speak of? Where is it enshrined in law? I cannot find anything anywhere that says what morals we are supposed to have nor how we are supposed to exercise them.
Sure, I agree with you about other stuff, but you keep saying he "knew" what would happen. He did not unless he suddenly developed the ability to "know" the future and what those crazies would do.
Yes, yes, I know they made threats, but threats are just threats not actions. And for them to say that their actions hinge upon someone else's actions half a world away is to lie like a dog.
Let's say you threaten to make me a bowl of soup if I dare to post a single word more. Yet I do not know if you would actually do this, nor would I expect to know. Yet I post more words regardless of what you say or threaten to do.
Now you would say it's my fault that you made a bowl of soup! I did not force you to make soup, but you would say that I made you do it by posting words.
But you were the one making threats (in this example), not me, and so your soup-making is on you regardless of whether I believed your threats or not.
And I had no way of "knowing" whether or not you would actually make soup. All I know is that I have the right to post words. If Joe Blow in NY says he's going to kill his neighbor if I post a single word, how is that murder my fault?
I did not ask for opinions on my ability to post or my right to post, yet Joe Blow heard about me when I announced my intention to post and decided, on his own, to threaten a murder based on my stated intentions.
Jones is a nut. Yet his actions do not speak louder than the threats made by Muslims who are just looking for any excuse to commit violence? He just did what he though he should do. Those Muslims took his actions as an excuse for what they did.
You can't connect the two without going off into fantasy land.
Your argument can be used to justify anything that is unrelated simply because someone declares their intentions and others declare their intentions.
The murders were done on their own. Jones had NOTHING to do with them AT ALL. Not even by proxy.
But, hey, if you can convince me otherwise, go to it. I'm not all that peaceful a person. I might enjoy having reasons to kill that have nothing to do with anything but a book of lies.
@Darrel V,
Its an example of cando and should do. Jones can burn the Quran but should not its simply not christian. The Bible says "save each mans dignity snd protect each mans pride. Christ said Love the neighbor as you would they self" tranlation treat others as you want to be treated. Jones did neither. He can but should not. By the ways is treat others as you want to BE treated not as they treat you. So arguing tat they burn the Bible is irrelavant.
With that said they kill each other in protest to an Idiotic bigot in the USA. It unfortunatley adds credance to those who say Muslims are violent. I'm not saying I think all Muslims are violent just pointing out complaining people call them violent then killing people over a book is inconsistent.
Whith that said Jones is an A__ a poor example of Christian and a poor example of an American
Okay, I'll concede that there was an outside chance that islamic radicals would suddenly decide that it's okay for an American christian preacher to burn their most sacred scripture, but what is possible isn't necessarily plausible. Some reactions are terribly predictable.
However, you cannot separate the riots that killed the UN workers and innocent bystanders from Jones' actions. You can't. It was done in direct response to his actions. Effigies of Jones were burned, the protests were organized in DIRECT response. I don't condone the attacks but I don't condone inciting attacks.
I'm sorry that you don't believe in moral responsibility, truly I am. There are few things more useless than an adult who will not take responsibility for their own irresponsible behavior.
@tallulah13 – I agree with you about moral responsibility, but the problem is in the details. What moral code are you talking about and where is it written down in law? I'm sure we'd probably agree on most stuff, but to simply fling some unknown moral code into play is just tangling things up again.
I understand that they did the riots while saying that Jones was the cause, yet they did not go after Jones, the US, or US personnel – they went after UN people totally unrelated to the US.
And they may have chanted "death to the US" while they killed UN workers, but those workers had done nothing to warrant such an attack in any way shape or form.
What we have here is someone driving them to do this, and there have been reports that only a few seemed to be driving them to violence. I suspect they were only after what they thought they could steal from the UN offices.
Why aren't you mad at the media for giving Jones all that attention in the first place? Without the media, no one would have known or cared that the idiot was going to burn some books.
Why does the media get away with this scot-free?
I'm not saying Jones wasn't irresponsible, he was, but his mistake was in thinking he had all the answers thanks to his Bible. Religious people do that all the time. Their "faith" makes them foolhardy. He burned a book because everyone told him he couldn't when he actually could. That probably sent him over the edge and he burnt the book like a kid rebelling against his parents.
But religion is at the heart of this problem. Not who may or may not react according to threats they may or may not have meant to carry out. Their religion gave them the motive and justification. They couldn't find any real US targets to loot or kill, so they went after UN people like a bunch of psychotics. It's all religion and how nobody seems able to express it in ways that show an ability to live peaceably with others on this Earth.
That Jones is a preacher just makes it more obvious to me. Religious people don't react "predictably" unless you know everything about their particular sub-sect and how each person is individually....but then they can be goaded into doing crazy things, too.
I wish more people were responsible for their own actions, but this country has been on a "lack of accountability" death-spiral for decades. I prefer personal accountability, but religious people put accountability onto their god, their holy books, and their priests and act like it's okay. It's not.
I'm sorry I picked on you. You're a good debater. I just want to see actual accountability based on direct evidence, not someone claiming they were "driven" to kill because of their religion and leading to all of this nonsense. They could have claimed that the President drove them to it by not arresting and executing Jones right away. And would we blame the President? No...but some might. He doesn't move as quick on some stuff like I was expecting. But that's a different topic.
Thanks for responding to my obviously unbalanced posts. Religion makes me angry, and when this stuff happens I want the real perpetrators stopped. Jones isn't much of a perpetrator. Just an old guy pretending his god makes him do things, kinda like the fellers over in the Middle East. Pretending so hard they believe it. Horrible stuff.
tallulah13, maybe Pastor Jones cares more about the souls of the Muslim people because he knows that they are following a fake (aka evil spirit from satan). Allah is NOT God. Jesus Christ is God.
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezekiel 18:4
Amen.
@Heavensent
There is far more to christianity then Bible versus, something both you and Jones need to learn I think. I may be wrong but from your posts and his actions it looks like I'm right. Hope I'm wrong
@Vaytin,
You stated relegion was to blame. I have to disagree. Relegion is an idea it is the person who commits the act that is to blame. Personal responsibilty is still paramount. To many people spritual and secular fail to accept that as evidence I give Charlie Sheen, Lindsay Lohan. Chris Brown. All behaved badly noe seem to have a particular faith noe want to take responsiblity. Jones uses his relegion as a excuse to try to ligitimize his arrogant hateful bigotry, but he is to blame for his own actions. we all are. Knights blamed the crusades on the pope but they could have said no. mafia members go to confession but never change. Wewill all face God for our sins even if we try to ignore our own responsibilty. The protesters in Afganistan are responsible for what they did because they did it. The could have ignored Jones behavior or at least not killed any one. They did it not Jones. Jones is an A– it needs to stop acting like this even if its not against the law it is the right thing to do. He is a poor example of a christian, and a poor example of an American his actions are his fault relegion is merely his excuse and a bad one at that
But, the Pentagon gladly burns Bibles sent to Afghanistan!
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/
The average Afghani isn't even aware of why the U.S. has invaded their country, but like any occupied people, they resent the intrusion.
Just as the U.S. government is propagandizing the "muslim threat" on home soil, so are the Afghans afraid of Christian conquerors.
Becuase the Bush administration had a policy of buying up and supressing all satellite imagery that demonstrate destroyed civilian targets, the western media has precious little to say about the matter.
The U.S. even bombed Al Jazeera, the primary afghan news network.
In a nation brimming with simmering (and justifiable) resentment and violence, an act like burning their holy book can be the spark that ignited an explosion of righteous indignation amongst the Afghan people, which will lead to further death on both sides.
Interesting that here in the US there have been no protests, or at least no violent protests.
On the other hand, here in the US there has been one highly public (read: publicity stunt) burning of what some consider a Holy Book.
Just an observation.
Observe this.
There have been Q'uran burnings before, yet no one brings them up.
There have been Bible burnings by Muslims for hundreds of years and no one thinks this is worth mentioning.
Every time a Muslim burns a Q'uran no one says anything.
We have burned hundreds of Q'urans in the heat of battle, as have Muslims. Where is the problem with that?
In an arround about way all USA soldiers are sworn to protect the rights of its citiziens, not to condem and berate these protected rights. It should not be the actions of our citiziens in question here. It is the actions of those who detest our freedoms that are responsible for the killings over the burning of paper with symbols on it. Our General should appoligise to all of us.
Did not a US citizen's actions place US soldiers lives in jeopardy?
What is it when a citizen endangers soldiers?
No soldier has been placed in jeopardy by Jones and crew burning a Q'uran.
You cannot hold our rights hostage to the incoherent madness of people living on the other side of the world.
They could say that anyone going to church is a desecration of the Q'uran and of Islam and that if anyone goes to church they will kill kill kill.
Would that mean people should not go to church? Because some crazy people looking for an excuse to commit violence pick one at random and use that as justification for their own violence?
You guys are being stupid about this. It is just a book and not anyone else's property.
Jones has the right to express his religious beliefs as long as they don't harm anyone directly.
There is no causal link between the Q'uran burning and the violence done by psychotic people and never will be.
Yea well now you see why he was called General betray us.
Darrel V
Yea well now you see why he was called General betray us.
----------–'
Sadly ridiculous! The General has to clean up the mess that this "pastor"started from the safety of the US! Everybody knows how folks would react to the burning of the Qu'ran! No surprise, right? Yet still armed with that knowledge, the genius thought nothing of the consequences for the folks (UN and US) thousands of miles way!
Steve, did you ever think that pastor cares about the souls of the Muslim people and wants them to stop following an evil spirit instead of following the true God, Jesus Christ.
Amen.
@Haevensent,
I think Jones is an arrogant bigot and a poor example of a christian. I think he want publicity. Who is he to judge te Quranlet God judge the Quran he is just a preacher and a bad one at that. He should go sit in judgement on himself and leave the rest to God.
I will say one thing....those that practice islam aren't afraid to go and hurt someone over their faith. Islam is wrong b/c it is a false god. The God of the Bible IS THE ONLY GOD to follow.
For the thousandth time:
Same God, different Prophet.
Which GOD of the Bible? There are three of them.
– the Jesus God ?
– the Holy Father God ?
– the Holy Ghost God ?
CW, how do you know this to be the case?
CF,
For almost 2000 years the followers of Jesus killed people in the name of religion. Fundamentalism is the problem, and appears in many guises. Ever heard of teh Salem Witch Trials, or the Spanish Inquisition ?
Vaytin : Right on.
The sun came up this morning.
All sorts of bad things happened today.
Therefore the sun coming up this morning is the cause of evil today. ............. oh wait.
(B)iraq Hussein Osama
Which GOD of the Bible? There are three of them.
– the Jesus God ?
– the Holy Father God ?
– the Holy Ghost God ?
-------–
One God! difficult to explain BUT. Are you married? if so, you are a husband. got siblings? You are a brother, got offspring? you are a dad. Yet you are but ONE person! three roles (so to speak), but one person! We are talking about one of the great mysteries of the bible and using the earthly to explain it. That does not always work well!
Doc, Allah is NOT God. Jesus Christ is God.
Amen.
HeavenSent wrote: " Allah is NOT God. Jesus Christ is God. "
And the proof for this is where?
"Hear O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!" Deuteronomy 6:4 (Zechariah 14:9).
"Before Me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord: and besides Me there is no savior." Isaiah 43:10-11 (Isaiah 44: 6-8, 24; 45:5-10, 18, 21-22)
"Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, and from Jesus Christ. . ." Revelation 1:4-5 (the Spirit is also one: Ephesians 4:4)
". . .and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which ARE the seven Spirits of God. . ." Revelation 5:6 (see Revelation 4:5, Zechariah 4)
Amen.
Quoting from an ancient book full of fairy tales is nothing but nonsense... (unless you happen to be Catholic, in which case it would be nunsense...)
HeavenSent,
Muslims' think that their book is every bit as 'divinely' inspired as yours. Why do you reject it?
Equal-opportunity th-umping:
"Nineteenth-century agnostic Robert G. Ingersoll branded Revelation "the insanest of all books".[30] Thomas Jefferson omitted it along with most of the Biblical canon, from the Jefferson Bible, and wrote that at one time, he "considered it as merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams." [31]
Martin Luther "found it an offensive piece of work" and John Calvin "had grave doubts about its value."[32]
@Praise the lord
I am Catholic and the was good