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April 13th, 2011
04:04 PM ET
My Take: Relationships and religious advice
By Stephen Prothero, Special to CNN I have been giving a lot of lectures recently — at institutions as different as Duke, Virginia Military Academy and the University of North Alabama — and I have settled into the routine. A bit about my book "Religious Literacy" (Americans are very religious, but know almost nothing about their own religions), a bit about my newest project, "God is Not One" (no, religions are not different paths up the same mountain) and some humor thrown in here and there. My favorite part of any speaking engagement, however, is the Q& A, which gives me an opportunity to hear what is on the minds of college students, and allows me to freelance a bit — to think on my feet. In an April 6 talk sponsored by the Center for Interreligious Education at DePaul University in Chicago, DePaul’s Cortelyou Commons — the “Harry Potter” room, as my host David Wellman called it — was packed, thanks to the extra credit offered by many professors and the fact that I had appeared a few nights earlier on "The Colbert Report". Usually the questions and answers last only 15 minutes or so, and often they traverse familiar ground. This time, however, the back and forth went on for an hour, and I got a lot of new questions. The Q&A started with an angry young woman eager to exempt her beloved Confucianism from the horrors of religion. Do I really think Confucianism is a religion? Yes, I do. But Confucius hardly spoke of God or the afterlife. Well, neither do many forms of Buddhism. I asked her whether she had been to the Temple of Confucius in Qufu, China, where Confucianism’s founder is plainly worshipped as a god. She said yes, but added that Confucius would be disgusted by efforts to turn him into anything other than a sage. The debate ended only when Wellman, an assistant professor of religious studies at DePaul, told us to move on. Apparently I wasn’t particularly convincing. The next day the woman called me an ignorant “a–hole” on her Twitter feed. My favorite exchange of the evening came from a young Muslim woman. She told me she was rooming with two Russian Jewish women who had become her friends, but that her grandfather was very upset with the arrangement. “What should I do?” she pleaded. "It's a real problem." At first, I had no idea. So I stalled by saying I felt like I was on the NPR program “Car Talk,” where the hosts dispense advice about carburetors and timing belts but are really talking about relationships and other human foibles. In between my hemming and hawing, she asked me to explain “this Jewish-Muslim thing” — something I said I doubted I could do in a minute or two. In the end, what I said was that her grandfather was concerned because he loved her. I then suggested she do some research on "La Convivencia" — a moment in medieval Spain, from 711 to 1492, in which Jews, Christians and Muslims coexisted peaceably, collaborating together in such arenas as mathematics, philosophy and architecture — and share her findings with her grandfather. Perhaps her dorm room could become yet another place of interreligious “coexistence.” I have often observed that religious traditions intrigue me more for the questions they ask than for the answers they offer. And so it goes for my invited lectures. At least for me, it’s the questions that really get me going.
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Editor's Note: Stephen Prothero, a Boston University religion scholar and author of "God is Not One: The Eight Rival Religions that Run the World," is a regular CNN Belief Blog contributor.
Hello my name is Tol Trunks. I am a saint. We are living in the end times, the Book of Revelation is unfolding as we speak. Please report the HIV vaccine. Mr. Prothero, when are the other editors going to add comments to the multiple parts of cnnpressroom.com?
Is the author asking us to answer the question for him or is he just giving us a name-dropping, play-by-play of a failed collegiate public speaking?
People need to think for themselves rather than have a religious leader tell them what to think. God was created in a time where people did not understand and feared the world around them, and created a "being" who is there for them at all times, watching over their every move. I try to be a good person and help the unfortunate, but really, all the rules with religion, please. If we look at the teachings of Jesus Christ (which were very simple) and actually lived by his example, then possibly many or the worlds problems would lessen. When someone tells me that they are a "Christian" I do not believe them as their actions speak louder than their words. A true Christian does not have to announce to the world that they are a Christian.
@Johnny What a stupid thing to say to silence Christians...
Johnny B-
" A true Christian does not have to announce to the world that they are a Christian."
I think that American Christians are about the only ones who think like that and, even then, I suspect it has more to do with being American than being a Christian, wouldn't you say?
NL, this time I agree with you. A lot of Americans are weird nowadays.
Adelina-
No, I meant that American Christians are more loud and arrogant than Christians in other countries, it seems, because Americans in general are more loud and arrogant than folks in other countries. That's a function of having the world's strongest military and economy which leads to the belief that stronger morals and higher wisdom are necessarily attached to that. So, it's not that American Christianity is superior to all other forms by any logical standard, that's just how they view everything American.
Bad Adelina (hermelina)...Adelina bad
The only advice is: Get out of religion, religion is scam created to control your ass and your wallet
" Apparently I wasn’t particularly convincing. The next day the woman called me an ignorant “a–hole” on her Twitter feed."
Introspection. It's a good thing.
Though most Americans believe in God and regularly attend religious services, "religion and religious issues are hardly ever mentioned, much less covered, on network television morning, evening and magazine shows," said the center's chairman Brent Bozell. He said that the center has surveyed more than 18,000 nightly news shows broadcast by ABC, CBS, NBC, the Cable News Network and the Public Broadcasting Service, but found only 212 stories that focused on religion. That amounts to 1 percent of coverage although 52 percent of Americans say they attend church and more than 90 percent say that they pray regularly.
Then you have to ask yourself if most of the religion that is in the media is actually newsworthy. Most Americans either have kids, or grandkids who go to school, but how many stories are there in the media about schools? Not many outside of schools being damaged, closed, or having violence within, right? Roughly, I'd say that there are about as many positive stories about schools as there are about churches. Overall, religion's just not newsworthy if it isn't picketing, protesting or inciting, but isn't that just typical of American news media anyway?
100% of Americans go to the bathroom, yet there are almost no toiletry related news stories on network news shows. Just because something happens pretty regularly doesn't mean there need to be news coverage about it. In fact, news stories tend to be about things that are unusual. The lack of news on religious themes is far more likely a sign that observance is too commonplace to make the news than a sign of some conspiracy to hide it.
What the faithful seem to want are more feature stories about the wonderful work their particular religious organization happens to be doing in addition to the scathing exposés currently in the media, as long as they aren't aimed at their particular religious organization.
However, considering that individual churches are, in fact, businesses in competi.tion with other churches for a share of the pew warmers in any given area, news media cannot be seen favoring any particular one over it's rivals too much. If they want more coverage then, perhaps they should consider ponying up some more money on advertising?
"... a moment in medieval Spain, from 711 to 1492, in which Jews, Christians and Muslims coexisted peaceably, collaborating together..."
Yea, until the christians started slaughtering everyone that didnt believe as they do.
That's Spain's problem. And they accually massacred true Christians who tried to read the Bible more than any other group just like atheists massacred Christians everywhere last century. Villains hate the Bible.
The Twenty (or so) Worst Things People Have Done to Each Other:
from: http://necrometrics.com/warstatz.htm#u ( a "must-read" reference)
o The Muslim Conquest of India
"The likely death toll is somewhere between 2 million and 80 million. The geometric mean of those two limits is 12.7 million. "
Rank <<<Death Toll <Cause <<Centuries<<<Religions/Groups involved*
1. 63 million Second World War 20C (Christians et al and Communists/atheists vs. Christians et al, Nazi-Pagan and "Shintoists")
2. 40 million Mao Zedong (mostly famine) 20C (Communism)
40 million Genghis Khan 13C (Shamanism or Tengriism)
4. 27 million British India (mostly famine) 19C (Anglican)
5. 25 million Fall of the Ming Dynasty 17C (Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, Chinese folk religion)
6. 20 million Taiping Rebellion 19C ( Confucianism, Buddhism and Chinese folk religion vs. a form of Christianity)
20 million Joseph Stalin 20C (Communism)
8. 19 million Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C (Islam)
9. 17 million Timur Lenk 14C-15C
10. 16 million Atlantic Slave Trade 15C-19C (Christianity)
11. 15 million First World War 20C (Christians vs. Christians)
15 million Conquest of the Americas 15C-19C (Christians vs. Pagans)
13. 13 million Muslim Conquest of India 11C-18C
14. 10 million An Lushan Revolt 8C
10 million Xin Dynasty 1C
16. 9 million Russian Civil War 20C (Christians vs Communists)
17. 8 million Fall of Rome 5C (Pagans vs. Pagans)
8 million Congo Free State 19C-20C (Christians)
19. 7½ million Thirty Years War 17C (Christians vs Christians)
7½ million Fall of the Yuan Dynasty 14C
*:" Is religion responsible for more violent deaths than any other cause?
A: No, of course not – unless you define religion so broadly as to be meaningless. Just take the four deadliest events of the 20th Century – Two World Wars, Red China and the Soviet Union – no religious motivation there, unless you consider every belief system to be a religion."
Q: So, what you're saying is that religion has never killed anyone.
A: Arrgh... You all-or-nothing people drive me crazy. There are many doc-umented examples where members of one religion try to exterminate the members of another religion. Causation is always complex, but if the only difference between two warring groups is religion, then that certainly sounds like a religious conflict to me. Is it the number one cause of mass homicide in human history? No. Of the 22 worst episodes of mass killing, maybe four were primarily religious. Is that a lot? Well, it's more than the number of wars fought over soccer, or s-ex (The Trojan and Sabine Wars don't even make the list.), but less than the number fought over land, money, glory or prestige.
In my Index, I list 41 religious conflicts compared with 27 oppressions under "Communism", 24 under Colonialism, 2 under "Railroads" and 2 under "Scapegoats". Make of that what you will."
Adelina-
"Villains hate the Bible."
There is a discussion here on how the Bible was used lovingly by both sides of the slavery debate so, by your thinking, they were all villains then?
Reality, the Christian West's medical advancement and Christian charity saved humanity and enabled us to be 7 billion from 200 million in mere 200 years. You didn't exist without Christian charity on earth. For massacres, no group is even close to atheists' atrocities in the last century alone. Atheists are the far top murderers the world has ever known for all time. They didn't even need nationalism or racism to kill people like dirt. NL, without the Bible, men are animals.
Adelina,
http://necrometrics.com/warstatz.htm#u ( a "must-read" reference). How far have you gotten?
Adelina
"without the Bible, men are animals."
Considering that Christians had to wait for more than 300 years to get a collection of canonized books called the 'Bible' what does that say about Jesus' followers until then? It also seems rather harsh a judgment to call Native Americans 'animals' until the missionaries came. Actually, it sounds pretty racist.
Adelina,
And when you finish perusing that reference, peruse the following:
http://www.umac.org/ocp/CausesofGrowth/info.html
Christianity = The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ1EWMhBVSU
@NL, Christians were living by the Canon Books – the Apostles' teachings and doctrines – already when those were not formally assembled yet. If you read even a single chapter in any NT books, you'd know what it means. I didn't address only Native Americans but all humanity. All humans are barbaric without Judeo-Christian values.
@Reality: Write your own 3-line sentences or become a CNN news writer. I don't have time to read or watch your junks.
@Logan Watch how Nazis massacred the Jews and Christians, and realize what you are doing now.
Obviously, Adelina does not know how to access reliable information.
Adelina-
You appear to be favoring the opinions of amateurs to the findings of actual biblical scholars. It was a long time after Jesus' death before anything was ever written down, and the differences in even the canonical gospels indicates that rival traditions arose quickly. In Acts there is a meeting in Jerusalem as to whether circu.mcision be required of Gentile converts, for example.
The chain of events clearly indicates that there were major differences in opinion from the very beginning, just after Jesus' death, that these rival communities wrote their own books and followed only them, and Jewish scripture, for hundreds of years until a Rome-backed Church emerged and charged by Constantine to standardize everything. So a group of bishops got together and, using what they felt was the accepted dogma, pruned away all books that disagreed with the faith of that day.
This is way different from the general belief that the apostles all faithfully maintained Jesus' exact ministry for decades until the books of the New Testament came around to being written. That's an opinion that has been dropped by all serious scholars and most Christians as well.
Adelina-
"Watch how Nazis massacred the Jews and Christians"
And then these same Nazis continued to go to church as they did before joining the party, right? They may not have been 'good' Christians, but they were still Christians. The real problem is that all of these deadly regimes were totalitarian.
Logan.
Not fair that God and his prophets&messengers are blamed for the wickedness of men who worshiped some thing they made of gold that looked like a Bull and being hollowed it makes a sound from winds passing through it rather than worshiping the God of Moses who had freed and saved them by the Exudes....for that reason God had to purify them from the guilt and sin to grant them repentance...
Another wickedness of men was to change the words of God in the scriptures and books;
Distorting the Word of God
[2:75] Do you expect them to believe as you do, when some of them used to hear the word of GOD, then distort it, with full understanding thereof, and deliberately?
Concealing the Word of God
[2:76] And when they meet the believers, they say, "We believe," but when they get together with each other, they say, "Do not inform (the believers)of the information given to you by GOD, lest you provide them with support for their argument concerning your Lord. Do you not understand?"
[2:77] Do they not know that GOD knows everything they conceal, and everything they declare?
[2:78] Among them are gentiles who do not know the scripture, except through hearsay, then assume that they know it.
[2:79] Therefore, woe to those who distort the scripture with their own hands, then say, "This is what GOD has revealed," seeking a cheap material gain. Woe to them for such distortion, and woe to them for their illicit gains.
__________________________________________________
The Quran: God's Message to the Jews and Christians
[5:15] O people of the scripture, our messenger has come to you to proclaim for you many things you have concealed in the scripture, and to pardon many other transgressions you have committed. A beacon has come to you from GOD, and a profound scripture.
[5:16] With it, GOD guides those who seek His approval. He guides them to the paths of peace, leads them out of darkness into the light by His leave, and guides them in a straight path.
__________________________________________________
You Shall Not Make Any Distinction Among God's Messengers
[4:150] Those who disbelieve in GOD and His messengers, and seek to make distinction among GOD and His messengers, and say, "We believe in some and reject some," and wish to follow a path in between;
[4:151] these are the real disbelievers. We have prepared for the disbelievers a shameful retribution.
[4:152] As for those who believe in GOD and His messengers, and make no distinction among them, He will grant them their recompense. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
changing the words of God
Perhaps going around and giving speeches does not put one in the right frame of mind to produce meaningful written works. Maybe another vacation is called for to truly distract you from producing good copy.
You changed your name again? That's four in the last month!
I would think that with all your personalities, at least one would be sane, but that has not been the case.
That was for Justina Frederica Adeline Adelina.
Bill, I have lists of beautiful names and phrases. Let me introduce them one by one. Some thugs keep hijacking my user names. It's your friends' fault.
Reminds me of: Catalina, Adelina, Madelina, Whoopenheimer....
So when will you be John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt? Because that's my name too. Whenever I go out, the people always shout "There goes John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt!"
Only for the those interested in a religious update in less than two minutes thereby saving a "book-hawking" lecture by Prothero.
1. origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482
New Torah For Modern Minds
"Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.
Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.
The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment. "
2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.
The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitti-tes, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html
For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".
Current RCC problems:
Pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!
3. Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).
Current problems:
Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac ministers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,
4. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.
This agenda continues as shown by the ma-ssacre in Mumbai, the as-sas-sinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, the Ft. Hood follower of the koran, and the Filipino “koranics”.
And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.
Current crises:
The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.
5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) – "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."
The caste/laborer system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."
Current problems:
The caste system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence.
6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."
"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"
Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circu-mstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.
Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies, and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.
Then, apply the Five F rule: "First Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations". And finally there will be religious peace and religious awareness in the world!!!!!
Eastern spirituality does not claim to have absolute Truth – just collection of domestic wisdom and observations upon the fallen mankind and wild fantasies made into doctrines. Adherents have been and still are barbaric enough to destroy and persecute anyone who does not comply with their names. The Concept of human freedom or freedom of conscience does not exist and cannot be enforced outside of Christianity.
Adelina
"The Concept of human freedom or freedom of conscience does not exist and cannot be enforced outside of Christianity."
Such arrogance you have! You may find these quotes... enlightening.
"Arrogance, pedantry, and dogmatism; the occupational diseases of those who spend their lives directing the intellects of the young."
Henry S. Canby
"I see myself capable of arrogance and brutality... That's a fierce thing, to discover within yourself that which you despise the most in others."
George Stevens
"Learning and innovation go hand in hand. The arrogance of success is to think that what you did yesterday will be sufficient for tomorrow."
William Pollard
Nl, historical and current facts are facts. No arrogance. Learn US history and world history, please.
Adelina
What 'facts' do you have to prove that people living without the Bible's influence are worse than those who do? Certainly nothing from history. It's just you arrogant opinion then.
Mr. Prothero sounds another typical intellectual fools who love talking about religions but not interested in finding the Truth. They are like ancient Greek smarties who just loved sharing ideas and observations but never committing or looking into evidences, since committment is a foolishness to them, although Truth does not exist in themselves. Meanwhile they are the first ones who'd condone immoral behaviors of any given society with sick inclusiveness as if garbage always belongs to someone else. Self-smart people in democratic societies are a lot like that. They should read Acts chapter 17.
You're right. You not-smarties and not-intellectuals are so much wiser than us intellectual fools.
Stupid is the new smart.
Bill, the wisdom is in God's Book, the Bible.
Here is the wisdom of the Bible:
8. Deuteronomy 23:1 "No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord."
@Adelina,
"they should read Acts chapter 17."
Why do you believe Paul of Tarsus?
Bill, all of us don't deserve the presence of the Lord for one reason or another. The perfect, sinless Son of God Jesus opened up the way to go close to God. Read the whole chapter 23. We all needed God's mercy equally since we are all sinners; Jesus freed us from all sins and all curses. That's the point.
Bill, also the verse is one of the reasons Judaism and Christianity prohibit the woeful system of eunuchs in courts which has been rampant in pagan civilizations. The Bible saved humanity from barbarism.
As opposed to when the church itself was castrating young boys just so they could keep their youthful singing voices a little longer...
Civiloutside, the Church is doing much better job than parents, teachers, company bosses, policemen and politicians. Why don't you topple all the man-made insti tutions? They are all so destructive according to you.
The message of God to Abraham that Abraham named as 'Submission' being the Religion God wanted for us to hold to as per guidance of the scriptures inspired and revealed amongst their best of men (Prophets&Messengers of God)...kindly read the verses that explains it all and as a guidance as how it should the brotherhood between the people of the book as all be considered believers to what these verses come with;
Honoring Previous Scripture
[5:44] We have sent down the Torah, containing guidance and light. Ruling in accordance with it were the Jewish prophets, as well as the rabbis and the priests, as dictated to them in GOD's scripture, and as witnessed by them. Therefore, do not reverence human beings; you shall reverence Me instead. And do not trade away My revelations for a cheap price. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the disbelievers.
The Law of Equivalence
[5:45] And we decreed for them in it that: the life for the life, the eye for the eye, the nose for the nose, the ear for the ear, the tooth for the tooth, and an equivalent injury for any injury. If one forfeits what is due to him as a charity, it will atone for his sins. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the unjust.
____________________________________________________________
*5:44 The Torah is a collection of all the scriptures revealed through all the prophets of Israel prior to Jesus Christ, i.e., today's Old Testament. Nowhere in the Quran do we find that the Torah was given to Moses.
The Gospel of Jesus: Guidance and Light
[5:46] Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.
[5:47] The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with GOD's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the wicked.
Quran: The Ultimate Reference
[5:48] Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny – all of you – then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.
[5:49] You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations to you. Do not follow their wishes, and beware lest they divert you from some of GOD's revelations to you. If they turn away, then know that GOD wills to punish them for some of their sins. Indeed, many people are wicked.
[5:50] Is it the law of the days of ignorance that they seek to uphold? Whose law is better than GOD's for those who have attained certainty?
This meaning if the people of the book of the faith of Abraham who believed as a monotheist in God only not assigning sons or partners to him and would consider the Quran as scripture confirming previous scriptures that came before it..
Believing in that even if each remained as with different prophets,laws&rites remaining within the truth of the revelations....
All that has to be needed is to cross out any belief of a begotten son or trinity that has over turned the Table over the Abrahamic Faith to become scattered as it is between them and among them into many branches...
Seems this is the only way to untangle the mess that we reached in to... This is my Religious Advice to overcome all complications....! I think this is a better way than giving up the whole Holy Religion and Belief in Exchange for a Secular Bible that meant to take them all over with time??
@Muneef: Hello my friend!
Might I ask why you think that a united religious belief system is superior to a secular belief system?
"Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them" and then it talks later about competing in righteousness.
Both of these statements directly contradict what Jesus brought to the table with faith above works and also his humble atti-tude towards his father in heaven and the Old Testament which came before Him. These are the atti-tudes of the Pharisees in the New Testament wrapped in new words and clothing. This sets up Muslims to think they are above the rest of the world, where the teachings of Christ are about serving, sacrificing, and coming from a place of humility to love everyone as well as possible.
Eric G.
Hello to you as well friend...
About your question isn't that going to help overcome all the disputes and conflicts that these religions are facing among them since only then we might not need to have the panic of fear and distrust among all? Only then might not need to have a secular bible as code of conduct although it might be a reason of guidance of those non religious ones to at least respect the differance of beliefs....
Any way allow me to add few verses to the collections above;
Distorting the Word of God
[2:75] Do you expect them to believe as you do, when some of them used to hear the word of GOD, then distort it, with full understanding thereof, and deliberately?
Concealing the Word of God
[2:76] And when they meet the believers, they say, "We believe," but when they get together with each other, they say, "Do not inform (the believers)of the information given to you by GOD, lest you provide them with support for their argument concerning your Lord. Do you not understand?"
[2:77] Do they not know that GOD knows everything they conceal, and everything they declare?
[2:78] Among them are gentiles who do not know the scripture, except through hearsay, then assume that they know it.
[2:79] Therefore, woe to those who distort the scripture with their own hands, then say, "This is what GOD has revealed," seeking a cheap material gain. Woe to them for such distortion, and woe to them for their illicit gains.
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The Quran: God's Message to the Jews and Christians
[5:15] O people of the scripture, our messenger has come to you to proclaim for you many things you have concealed in the scripture, and to pardon many other transgressions you have committed. A beacon has come to you from GOD, and a profound scripture.
[5:16] With it, GOD guides those who seek His approval. He guides them to the paths of peace, leads them out of darkness into the light by His leave, and guides them in a straight path.
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You Shall Not Make Any Distinction Among God's Messengers
[4:150] Those who disbelieve in GOD and His messengers, and seek to make distinction among GOD and His messengers, and say, "We believe in some and reject some," and wish to follow a path in between;
[4:151] these are the real disbelievers. We have prepared for the disbelievers a shameful retribution.
[4:152] As for those who believe in GOD and His messengers, and make no distinction among them, He will grant them their recompense. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
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So basically, Stephen Prothero had absolutely nothing to say today, but he said it anyway.
You nailed it!
Oh, come on. He included several self-promoting links for us to enjoy, didn't he?
He is polite – just another pagan Westerner who vainly try to equate Christianity with other stuff.
@DocVestibule – if you would have had one more female roomate it would have been a Three's Company type deal, cool.
My parents and grandparents were the same way but once they moved to Canada and had kids and realized that we were making friends from all cultures, faiths and religions they opened up to it and now have friends of all kinds. I could understand there hesitance at first, new country, being treated unfairl when they first came here and just listening to stereotypes growing up in India but once they met ppl from all different backgrounds they just realized that essentially we are all the same. Every group has it's "normal" ppl and "whack-jobs".
"Do I really think Confucianism is a religion? Yes, I do. But Confucius hardly spoke of God or the afterlife."
Re·li·gion/riˈlijən/Noun1. The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.
"Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today"
– John Lennon
A meaningless, purposeless song founded on anti-reality.
Adelina,
You are a veritable expert on anti-reality. You cannot prove that any of your supernatural fantasies are real.
If I say it again and again and again it becomes true
The last post was not by the real Adelina. The fake Adelina will burn in hell.
The Christian Adelina that said that she was the real Adelina was not the real Adelina either.
Those responsible for the Moose references in the subti-tles have been sacked.
Mynd you, moose bites Kan be pretti nasti
The 2nd-4th Adelina are not the original Adelina who is Christian.
My hovercraft is full of eels
"Adelina
A meaningless, purposeless song founded on anti-reality."
Just because you don't understand its meaning, doesn't mean there isn't one. The meaning (for those of us with an open enough mind to understand it), is that religions are divisive, and if they were gone, we would get along much better than we do now.
It's incredibly meaningful, incredibly pertinent....open your mind, put down whatever version of the bible you let run your life, and use your OWN mind.
Fred, human mind is evil. Those who used their own mind alone proved it. Mind is there to find and understand the objective Truth in the Bible, not to deify a filthy self.
I once lived with a Jewish woman whose parents were orthodox.
Becuase they would not tolerate their daughter loving a goyem, I was relegated to the role of "gay roommate" whenever they came around.
My father is Catholic and my mother Protestant. When they wanted to get married 40 plus years ago, they couldn't find a clergyman from either denomination to do it as neither would convert, nor promise to raise their children in either particular faith. In fact, the priest who had ministered my father's family for decades said that such a marriage was doomed to failure!
These petty religious divisions do nothing but encourage segregation and fan the flames of bigotry.
Amen Doc
That last sentence says it all.
Doc, religious divisions were/are sometimes necessary to discern Truth clearly, and true Christians love each other. Don't take everything personally. That division helped the world globally. Don't blame God or others. Life is bigger than you and your family. Just try to put your own life in order before God as such is our responsibility, each and every one of us. We are fallen creatures in need of forgiveness and redemption by the Creator God – the reason He sent us the Savior Jesus.
@ Adelina you said religious divisions were/are sometimes necessary to discern Truth clearly..! 1st statement you made that was wrong. " PAUL SAID LET THEIR BE NO DIVISIONS AMONG YOU, 1 Corinthians 1:14-17 Paul says he has had no part in these divisions: ... you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, ...
True Christians love each other." TRUE CHRISTIANS LOVE EVERYBODY" Don't take everything personally. That division helped the world globally. "OK THAT DIVISION CREATED THE BIGGEST BEAST THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN THE RCC AND THEY KILLED MILIONS IN THE NAME OF JESUS..." Don't blame God or others. Life is bigger than you and your family. Just try to put your own life in order before God as such is our responsibility, each and every one of us. We are fallen creatures in need of forgiveness and redemption by the Creator God – the reason He sent us the Savior Jesus. You mean Yeshua, Jesus is like 3 times removed from it, also they had to change his name as a matter of fact alot of names in the bible has been changed because a GROUP/ DIVISION/ SECT WANTED TO TURN EVERYONE IN THE BIBLE WHITE INCULDING YESHUA...OH AND I'M A FOLLOWER OF YEASHUA BY THE WAY....
Iceman, read I Corinthians 11:18,19. The division was utmost NECESSARY for Church to return to the Truth at Reformation. I meant true Christians love each other even after division. Of course God's people love everyone. Read stuff in the light of context. Iceman, people killed for nationalism and racism and misused every name in existence. Thank God for the Reformation; one cannot stay with falsehood for the sake of unity. Read the whole Bible. What's the matter of the name "Jesus" with you? It's just English adaptation of the name of our Savior in the original Greek NT. Why do you insist on His Hebrew name when we are communicating in English language? Regarding the name, Jesus = Joshua = Yeshua. Other languages have slightly different sounds.
Iceman, the Christian Western Civilization did all the necessary fightings and wars for entire mankind to obtain freedom of conscience and rights to quest for Truth so that the rest of the world didn't have to fight for that. Christians have been most severely persecuted for all time in the pagan world, and fightings and wars in the pagan world were meaningless accomplishing nothing. We pagans just showed how barbaric we are, that's all. Then Christian missionaries came to us and saved us.
@ Doc,
First off let me say it's a shame what happened to your parents....just know that if they were joined that "God was apart of it".
Second....let me ask...Are you g-'ay? I couldn't tell if that was just the way you felt when your roomates parents came by or what.
@CW
The girl and I were in a long term, live-in relationship.
Because her family wouldn't accept her being with anyone but another Jew, she told them that I was gay so they wouldn't forbid the co-habitation.
As an ironic post script, she did eventually find a nice, successful, well educated jewish fella who her parents loved – but who wound up coming out of the closet while they were together!
@ Adelina you are blinded for one because Yeashua is his name i'm saying it just fine in ENGLISH, also DIVISIONS CHANGED HIS AND OTHERS COLOR SO WHEN YOU AND ME SEN THAT WHITE "JEEESUUSSS" WE AWERE LOOKING AT AN IDOL, A false God made by the European Christians, How was you going to enslave a people when your God looks like them, It's deep READ UP ON IT, ask them yourself. Look what paul said a baby could understand it, Division brings you into no truth DIVISIONS BRINGS CONFUSION, ALSO EVERYTHING IN THE BIBLE ISN'T TRUE, BECAUSE OF THEM SAME MEN WHO CHANGED PEOPLES ASYING , COLOR, THEY CHANGED LAWS, TOOK BOOKS OUT, WE HAVE A BIBLE THAT HAS BETWEEN 66-73 BOOKS WHEN THERE WAS OVER 800. SO YOU BRING THAT BIBLE INTO A FORUM WITH THE LIKE MIND OF THESE PEOPLE IS LIKE TAKING A KNIFE INTO A GUN FIGHT..
Iceman, I think you are in a dire confusion because of all the non-canon junks and your own imaginations. Get a study Bible and read the 66 Canon Books of the Bible again first.
@ adelina you said. We pagans just showed how barbaric we are, that's all. Then Christian missionaries came to us and saved us. Yea if you wasn't SAVED YOU WERE KILLED, CHRISTIANS "SO CALLED" ARE THE BIGGEST TERRORIST, AND DID YOU FORGET THE ONES WHO ENSLAVED THE BLACKS WAS CHRISTIANS AND THEY TREATED US LIKE WE WASN'T HUMAN,
Icemen, pagans were already enslaving each other; women, children, invalids and minorities were especially treated bad. Countless Christian missionaries died to protect us pagans when we were not Christian yet. They built hospitals, schools and orphanages and fed us, cared for us and educated us regardless who we are. We learned to love our enemies from Western Christian missionaries. We never knew the meaning of true humanity – what we should be and can be before the one true Creator God – until we saw them and read the Bible.
What motivated you to do that? I couldn't handle 5 minutes with an orthodox anyone.
@Adelina
I can appreciate how you would come to Christ if the people who showed you and your kin such compas.sion held the Bible up as their motivation for selflessness.
But there are many people who live lives of charity, compas.sion and humility without touting their religious affiliations.
This is why the symbol of The Red Cross, unlike the crucifix, is respected the world over.
As an example:
In the mountain that divides Turkey and Iraq there was an encampment of 160,000 Kurdish refugees in 1991. They fled Iraq and crossed into Turkey to escape the revenge of Saddam. A team of 6 medics were overwhelmed by the desolation. They set up a tent and said they would provide medical aid to children under one year of age. The infants were dying of dehydration. The water was foul causing nausea and diar.rhea and thus dehydration. They could not rehydrate them. Water by mouth caused the children to choke. IVs were useless as the kids were so terribly dehydrated, no viable veins could be found. Thanks to largely American military efforts they were able to bring in oral rehydration salts to add to clean water dropped by air...they immunized every child under 5 yrs against measles which is the biggest killer in these circu.mstances.
All of this was done by a handful of brave humanitarians who dedicated their lives to helping the victims of war – not because of religion, but because human suffering is abhorrent to them.
It was religious persecution that was killing those children and secular medics who saved them.
"Americans are very religious, but know almost nothing about their own religions"
Boy, isn't that the truth!
But Americans are better than the rest of the world. Americans should not bash themselves too hard.
You are not American. I am. Considering that you admit that I am better than you, you should listen when I say that your religion is pure delusion and gods do not exist.
Jack, I mean American Christians. Pagan Americans do not qualify.
Sorry, but you can't change the rules after the game has started.
Jack, life is not a game. Be serious.
If you threaten any part of their belief, the heavily indoctrinated will usually become very hostile and defensive. Often they use dogmatic speech to parrot what they have been brainwashed into believing. They are mentally blocked from being able to view their actions using any outside referents.
Mentally blinded to anything outside of their "cult", they have no individual freedom to even think about questioning the "truths" they have been programmed to believe.
Similar to OCD, religious beliefs and other brainwashing topics fall into a class of mental aberrations having their functional roots in the structures of the brain.
Being little better than animals, humans are totally vulnerable to this sort of manipulative and hypnotic brainwashing.
Self-hypnosis is often encouraged, as this lessens the need for a second person to perform maintenance-type reinforcement of the mental programming the brainwashed person "believes".
This all becomes a mania for the believer to express in many extreme ways.
You people don't realize that if someone starts to REALLY manipulate your particular religion, you will be tossed into a religious frenzy strong enough to murder other people.
They do it often enough around the world, don't they? But that's small potatoes as far as potential is concerned.
If you do something for a being who not only controls your death but the deaths of those you kill, and also has a great retirement package after death, then what is there to keep you from murdering people in the name of some religious motive?
Nothing.
Just like religious people have nothing they can use to prove their god exists. All they keep proving is that they are well and truly brainwashed.
The Borgias, the first Organized Crime Family. Herr Hitler liked to clothe himself in the dir-tbag of the pious.
"The conception of the new Movement, whose fundamentals can be expressed in a single sentence: "The Lord helps those who help themselves," opposed this. That is not only a very pious phrase, but a very just one. For one cannot assume that God exists to help people who are too cowardly and too lazy to help themselves and think that God exists only to make up for the weakness of mankind. He does not exist for that purpose. He has always, at all times, blessed only those who were prepared to fight their own battles....
Providence has not led us along these amazing paths in vain. On the day that the party was founded I recalled that our nation once gained immense victories. Then it became ungrateful, disunited, sinned against itself. Thereupon it was punished by Providence. We deserved our defeat. If a nation forgets itself as completely as the German nation did at that time, if it thinks that it can shake off all honor and all good faith, Providence can do nothing but teach it a hard and bitter lesson. But even at that time we were convinced that once our nation found itself again, once it again became industrious and honorable, once each individual German stood up for his nation first and not for himself, once he placed the interests of the community above his own personal interests, once the whole nation again pursued a great ideal, once it was prepared to stake everything for this ideal, the hour would come when the Lord would declare our trials at an end.
If fate should once more call us to the battlefield, the blessing of Providence will be with those who have merited it by years of hard work. When I compare myself and my opponents in other countries in the light of history, I do not fear the verdict on our respective mentalities. Who are these egoists? Each one of them merely defends the interests of his class. Behind them all stands either the Jew or their own moneybags. They are all nothing but money-grubbers, living on the profits of this war. No blessing can come of that. I oppose these people merely as the 0 champion of my country. I am convinced that our struggle will in the future be blessed by Providence, as it has been blessed up to now.
-Adolf Hitler, in Munich, 24 Feb. 1941
Adelina-
"life is not a game. Be serious."
Non-believers are serious about life because we know it's the only existence we will likely ever have. It's believers tend to treat this existence with less seriousness than it deserves, it seems.
NL, you are wrong. Non-believers are irresponsible spiritually and morally for they don't think of after-life. Christians take responsibility both, therefore they are good for both present life and the life beyond. Proper thought of God and eternity put man in the right perspective. Never the opposite.
Adelina,
Thanks for providing the Christian perspective for all to see. Every time you post a comment such as those above, hundreds, maybe thousands, of people in the world get to witness the sheer intellectual dishonesty and blindness that is necessary to maintain and defend your unsubstantiated beliefs. I used to be a Christian. On the one hand, I feel sorry for you because I know with certainty that you cannot see that you have been misled. On the other hand, I don't pity you because when all the smoke clears, no one can free you from your supernatural beliefs but yourself. He is not coming back Adelina. He was a human being just as you and I are. You don't have to keep believing those things to be a good person.
Most Americans are atheists as to all religions except one. I go all the way. I am an atheist as to all religions.
Adelina-
I get what you're accusing with the morally irresponsible nonsense, but what does being 'irresponsible spiritually' mean? Atheists generally don't believe in afterlives for the same reason why they don't believe in gods, and having an immortal soul is part of that. You may think that it's being irresponsible, but a UFO believer might think the same of you for not wearing an aluminum foil hat on your head while you sleep.
Maybe you're real fear is that our non-belief may spoil your belief in the afterlife? Spoil your chances, or even spoil your entertainment in heaven. What, 24/7/forever church service of heaven not so bearable an idea without the breaks to watch the damned being tortured to help break up the monotony? Honestly, if wanting heaven makes people so self-centered and without compas.sion then even if you could prove to me that it exists you can keep it for yourself. I'm not interested in just looking out for myself.