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Waco's true believers
April 14th, 2011
10:56 AM ET

18 years after Waco, Davidians believe Koresh was God

By Ashley Fantz, CNN

Nearly 20 years ago, 76 people lost their lives during an FBI raid near Waco, Texas. CNN's Drew Griffin looks at those events at 8 ET/PT and 11 ET/PT Sunday night in "Waco: Faith, Fear & Fire."

Waco, Texas (CNN) - Sheila Martin's children burned alive. God, she says, wanted it that way.

"I don't expect you to understand," she says, leaning her bird-tiny frame against a full shopping cart in the nursery aisle at a Super Walmart. Her pink shirt, flats and purse match the lilies, hydrangeas and clusters of jasmine she's buying.

"Oh, look, they have forget-me-nots!" She caresses the blue petals and, like a child, puts her nose in the plant and inhales.

"These will be perfect for the memorial."

On Tuesday, Martin and a handful of other surviving Branch Davidians will gather at a hotel off a freeway in this dusty Central Texas town to remember the federal siege on their religious compound, an event that has become synonymous with the word Waco.

On that day in 1993, a 51-day standoff between the armed Davidians and agents with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms and the Federal Bureau of Investigation ended in a fire and the deaths of at least 76 people. Among them were Martin's husband and four of her children.

Read the full story here.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Church • Texas • TV • United States

soundoff (83 Responses)
  1. R

    @Buckminster Fullerene

    Here are some defintions of the word prophecy: a. An inspired utterance of a prophet, viewed as a revelation of divine will.
    b. A prediction of the future, made under divine inspiration.

    I said bible prophecies, not prophets. Don't be scared to do some more research. Also I did not say anything about scientific facts. But there are some things about the body that cannot be explained by medicine or science. Since you seem to be a fan of evolution, I wanted to know who made the rules. Thats why I made the comment about animals stealing and killing. If we evolved from animals that steal and kill with no judgement, why are we subject to any kind of judgement. Aren't animals our ancestors...... (Not)

    April 15, 2011 at 11:17 am |
    • Artist

      I heard there are some who saw Koresh alive and walking after his death. He said he would come back for them and as he floated into the sky he was doing the "Safety Dance" and saying, "You can dance if you wannnooo" They are writing about his life and what he said.

      April 15, 2011 at 12:19 pm |
    • Peter

      @Artist
      I've seen David Koresh in a dream in which he told me he was the truth and the real messiah. Also if you don't praise and worship David Koresh you will burn in hell forever. You have to accept David in your heart to be saved.

      April 15, 2011 at 12:56 pm |
    • Artist

      Peter you clearly had a blessed vision of our lord and savior Koresh

      April 15, 2011 at 4:49 pm |
  2. Apostle Eric vonAnderseck

    What is interesting is that direction for the Church comes through the apostles calling and not by selected text to project the will into (will-worship) which David Koresh practiced with his memory skills not the Holy Ghost. Claiming to be God puts the Record in himself, and so he should have also fulfilled the scriptures which Jesus testified of Himself,” John 11: 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the RESURRECTION, and the life: John 10: 17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I LAY DOWN my life, that I might take it again.
    This power, the Adventist, David could not perform, because his claims were of the imagination and Satan played on his mind the biblical role models in place of covenant faith.
    David Koresh as Jim Jones tried to fulfil the role of an ancient patriarch and that first covenant (remember Jesus spoke reproof to the woman at the well because she was embracing the traditions of the wrong covenant) and not by faith in Jesus Christ of the second covenant. The epistles reveal David’s folly. He was trying to usher in the Millennial reign of Christ but he was looking for apples on the tree in winter time. Being out of season with God, wrong covenant, wrong Record, and not an apostle of Christ. Preconceived ideas have always worked against faith. Satan is the master magician of the imagination where logic becomes your god. http://apostlestoday.net/

    April 15, 2011 at 4:07 am |
    • Reality

      The Apostles' Creed 2011: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians during the past 200 years)

      I might believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
      and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
      human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven.

      I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
      preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
      named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
      girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

      Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
      the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

      He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
      a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
      Jerusalem.

      Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
      many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
      ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
      Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
      grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
      and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
      called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

      Amen

      April 15, 2011 at 11:28 am |
    • Maybe

      Apostle Eric vonAnderseck,

      Ah, but YOUR 'vision' is better, truer, more valid than Koresh's 'vision', eh?

      You guys are a dime a dozen. Preach on, Sir - you are doing more to discredit Christianity and theism than anyone.

      April 15, 2011 at 1:03 pm |
  3. blacksheep

    Jesus preached of the coming of kingdom of GOD. This is the Promise. This is blessing because it is not asked by peoples but GOD in love give salvation and kingdom to peoples on the name of Jesus. After Jesus died then peoples know that the kingdom of GOD will be coming soon. This is ultimate save and never ending love and peace. To obtain this, you must believe that JESUS is the one that will come back and save us and HE IS THE SON OF GOD AND ONE WITH THE GOD ITSELF.

    So while you wait and hope, always do this point:
    1. Repent your sin ann takecare to not sin again.
    2. You must full of love and give care and love to anyone, this mean you are the light and fruitfull and save more peoples that still walking in the worldly wisdom.
    3. LOVING CARING because FATHER IS LOVE.
    4. FORGIVE becaue FATHER IS PEACE.
    5. NOT WALK IN WORLDLY WAY because FATHER IS SPIRIT AND HATE WORLDLY LUST. But remember, while we wait the kingdom of GOD, Father will provide us our NEED but not our WANT.

    You never know when, but repent now and defend yourself now from sin.

    April 15, 2011 at 3:23 am |
  4. R

    Evolution is base on theory, not fact. There are a lot of things that evolution cannot explain. How come there are no walking and talking apes now? What drastic evolutions have taken place in the last thousand years? I'm sure if evolution was fact this should have happend by now. The one thing that I can say about the bible is that man might have organized the books, but you can't dispute the prophecies. The Torah or even some of the other old testaments spoke of events that came true later and even still today. This would be before the new testament was written and acutally that even that supports the old testament. Prophecy is the fact of the bible. One of those facts included warnings about false prophets. Amazing that a lot of that is going around. The bible also says that you shall know them by their fruits. Every good tree bears good fruit. I think people should try some real research before they judge. Also, if there is no God, who decided what is morally right? For non-believers I ask how do you know what is right? Animals still and kill all the time, its their nature, why is it wrong for humans to do the same? Who set the boundries? Last if believers are wrong when their life is done they will go in the ground just like everyone else, but if they are right they will get eternal life. For non-believers I sincerly ask, what do you think you will receive if you are wrong? Thats not to scare anyone, but I would encourage you to give it some thought.

    April 15, 2011 at 12:01 am |
    • Buckminster Fullerene

      Did you mean to write "based on" ? "Base on" is incorrect grammar.
      There ARE walking and talking apes, they are called humanoids.
      Evolution takes place over millions of years, not over such short periods of time such as thousands of years. It also takes place in very short time periods, right under your nose at your local hospital. Bacteria evolve all the time beyond the capacity of antibiotics to kill them. It is a serious problem that is observed every day of the week by practicing physicians, and may well kill any one of us.
      You are correct. Evolution is a theory. The term "scientific fact" is a popular myth. Science is a method. The word "fact" does not appear in any of the steps of the scientific method.
      You need to take a course in Old Testament. The word "prophet" means "mouthpiece". They are not people who tell the future. That is another popular myth. The function of a prophet is to "speak for" god, to the king, to the people. They do not predict the future.
      What does "animals still and kill all the time" mean in your posting ?
      Thank you.

      April 15, 2011 at 2:11 am |
  5. Adelina

    She is completely wrong to say God wanted it that way, though we know God forever takes care of truly innocent victims. People are stupid, malicious and selfish to become enticed by any cults to start with.

    April 14, 2011 at 11:58 pm |
  6. T-party

    Natural selection, fossil fuels,animal fossils,erosion escarpments,mid oceanic ridges,evolution theories now thats science...based on fact baby.

    April 14, 2011 at 10:24 pm |
    • Lucy

      It's also a fact that chimps like T-party can learn to type.

      April 14, 2011 at 11:01 pm |
  7. T-party

    umm, Koresh Jim Jones, Pat Robertson, Benny Hinn, Jim bakker ,Jimmy Swaggert,Tim Haggerd, many priests,Bob tillman,jerry falwell .....and people ask me why I am agnostic??????

    April 14, 2011 at 10:21 pm |
  8. Rationalist

    Hey JohnR,
    Great "response" to my post – did you think that up all by yourself ? I rest my case concerning posters who can't seriously respond in any way other than to bloviate in order to make themselves feel like their own little "god". Yeah, real good posts (not!) – even if there were no God, I'm sure your "all omniscient" guidance would provide for a bastion of intelligent reading. In reality, it just provides for a good laugh...Dream on, junior !

    April 14, 2011 at 6:01 pm |
  9. The Jay Man

    Anyone ever hear of Rainbow Farm Massacre? Unfortunately, it did not receive the attention it deserved as it happened shortly before 9/11.

    http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02/n130/a05.html

    April 14, 2011 at 4:12 pm |
  10. HamsterDancer

    I definitely think that a person's spiritual beliefs (or lack of them) should come out of themselves not by following some human leader who is subject to all the failings everyone has and can easily become drunk with power. It's the story throughout human history. A high priest, shaman, pope, imam, pharoah, minister, etc. think they have a greater insight than average people. Others start to follow them and that leader starts drinking their own kool-aid and start to think they really do have special power and lead their followers down a bitter path.
    Think for yourselves, people! Research, question, and THINK. The answers lie in yourself!

    April 14, 2011 at 3:53 pm |
    • Artist

      Religious cannot think for themselves, this is why men create bibles and religious writings to "guide" aka brainwash. Keeps the sheep in lock step. In general the sheep/masses have to be led by the few. The average christian, muslim, jew etc are blinded (eyes closed) with faith and constant re-enforcement from the religion. Fear ensures they dont think too much for themselves or venture too far out of bounds. Who wants to burn forever.

      April 14, 2011 at 4:20 pm |
    • Artist

      In a nutshell religion is a self imposed delusion.

      April 14, 2011 at 4:21 pm |
  11. JohnR

    This was, by the way, one of the most disgraceful moments in American history. While I agree that Bush and Cheney should be held accountable for their use of torture and other crimes committed, the fact that Clinton and Reno were never prosecuted for Waco speaks volumes about who is allowed to visit wanton violence on others and who isn't. With that sort of precedent, why would anyone expect ANY president to be held accountable?

    April 14, 2011 at 3:03 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @JohnR
      You can thank Uncle Ronnie for that.
      Saint Reagan of Gipper – Patron of Afternoon Naps and Plausible Deniability.

      April 14, 2011 at 3:40 pm |
    • Ada Coddington

      I agree. You might include Bush 41 as an unindicted co-conspirator as it raid was planned on his watch. And, of course, we might add the then co-president, Hillary, and her boyfirend Vince Foster who felt so badly at what he had done that he committed suicide.

      April 14, 2011 at 6:33 pm |
  12. His Prince Michael

    Yet another, shameless Time Warner slant, that willfully ignores:

    1. A Godlessly immoral (and Arab-pandering) "president" and his
    radically "ambigous" first-"lady".
    2. A man-hating, radical lesbian "Attorney General"
    3. A murderously mercenary (and Coward-filled) "ATF"
    4. The screams of mostly Women and Children, being BURNED ALIVE.
    5. Justice, SHALL BE RELENTLESSLY SERVED

    April 14, 2011 at 2:47 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      What in the million names of God are you rambling about?

      April 14, 2011 at 3:38 pm |
    • Steev

      Doc, I think he wants to sound like that guy who blew up the federal building in Waco, TX.
      I can never remember his name, but to kill innocent people while protesting the killing of innocent people is very religious-like.

      April 15, 2011 at 3:55 am |
  13. Rationalist

    Just what I like – a good conversation from those who claim to know that God doesn't exist, and what Christianity is all about – having never seriously read or researched the Bible, references to Christ in secular historical writings, or objectively searched for the truth. You believe that God CAN'T exist because you can't see Him, and yet you can't even see your own nose in a dark room – and half of you can't even spell correctly – how blind! All you want to do is bad-mouth God because He didn't grant your every wish as a 3 year old, or that He has rules you don't want to follow. Yeah, ...a lot knowledge in this group...!

    April 14, 2011 at 2:34 pm |
    • JohnR

      This is just TOO funny! Great satire. And calling yourself "rationalist – great touch! What a card!

      April 14, 2011 at 3:00 pm |
  14. Lycidas

    Heck..didn't know there were any Branch Davidians left.

    April 14, 2011 at 1:57 pm |
  15. Reality

    Apparently, there are still wackos in Waco!!!

    April 14, 2011 at 12:38 pm |
  16. Jesusfreakazoid

    So the followers of a man killed by the government, think that this man was God?

    I'm sure it's just a passing thing and will never take hold...

    April 14, 2011 at 12:35 pm |
    • paulie

      In 2,000 years people could be praying to David Koresh and blame the christians for his death.

      April 15, 2011 at 12:37 pm |
  17. JohnR

    By the reasoning of new testament apologists, Koresh's followers wouldn't say he was god if it wasn't true. NOW do you christians understand why the testimony of true believers isn't credible? Of course not.

    April 14, 2011 at 12:01 pm |
    • Artist

      John, they will never get it. Time has a way of covering up the truth and people just accept it because their parents rasied them that way or the preacher says so. Look at how the bible actually came to be with the new testeeement. Select few of men dictated what books would be accepted as the word of god and what books were not. Christians actually think the bible magically came together and just is...when in fact it is far from that. You can even shine a light on otheir ignorance and they will still reject the truth. Amazing isnt it, how the mind can remain so ignorant.

      April 14, 2011 at 12:08 pm |
    • Kevin Harrison

      Yes, Artist, faith is the ardent belief in the obviously untrue. As we see here daily, no about of scientific evidence or bulletproof logic will sway the religious believers from the absurdities they believe.

      April 14, 2011 at 12:21 pm |
    • Lycidas

      Wow, such bold arrogance from the above. But where does such faith in their own superiority come from?

      April 14, 2011 at 1:58 pm |
    • JohnR

      Say what, Lycidas?

      April 14, 2011 at 2:18 pm |
    • Artist

      sorry posted in wrong comment above:
      Lycidas

      Wow, such bold arrogance from the above. But where does such faith in their own superiority come from?
      --–
      Interesting because someone doesnt believe in your god they are ar rogant. Also it requires no faith to see as some of us do. To say there is no evidence of fairies does not require faith, lack of evidence is welll lack of evidence.

      To not acknowledge your god out of the lack of evidence does not require faith. It is what it is. Your lack of evidence is not an issue nor problem of mine. It is a moot point to discuss this any further with you. The burden lies with the person making the claim. Ball is in your court sport.

      Faith is a nice little way to stroke each other within your community, however in the real world it is not relevent. No gods have come forward to date. Religions have died and new gods appear as empires rise and their beliefs die with them. So back to the game...ball in your court if you wish to play in the real world.

      April 14, 2011 at 3:10 pm |
  18. CatholicMom

    This is what can happen with ‘private interpretation’ of the Bible!

    April 14, 2011 at 11:21 am |
    • Kevin Harrison

      The Bibke started as a private interpretation of Judaism.

      April 14, 2011 at 11:24 am |
    • Luke

      Isnt that what triggered the Crusades?

      April 14, 2011 at 11:42 am |
    • Kevin Harrison

      You lost me on that one, Luke.

      April 14, 2011 at 11:51 am |
    • Luke

      Sorry Kevin, I was asking CatholicMommyPants. A private interpretation is what set off a murderous rampage through Europe. So I am just asking her what she thinks in all her wisdom and glory (sarcasm).

      April 14, 2011 at 12:00 pm |
    • The Bobinator

      > This is what can happen with ‘private interpretation’ of the Bible!

      Good thing there wasn't a council of sorts that picked and chose what should go into the bible based on their own private interpretations.

      Oh wait, there was one of those.

      April 14, 2011 at 1:59 pm |
    • Artist

      Lycidas

      Wow, such bold arrogance from the above. But where does such faith in their own superiority come from?
      --------
      Interesting because someone doesnt believe in your god they are ar rogant. Also it requires not faith to see as some of us do. To say there is no evidence of fairies does not require faith, lack of evidence is welll lack of evidence.

      To not acknowledge your god out of the lack of evidence does not require faith. It is what it is. Your lack of evidence is not an issue nor problem of mine. It is a moot point to discuss this any further with you. The burden lies with the person making the claim. Ball is in your court sport.

      Faith is a nice little way to stroke each other within your community, however in the real world it is not relevent. No gods have come forward to date. Religions have died and new gods appear as empires rise and their beliefs die with them. So back to the game...ball in your court if you wish to play in the real world.

      April 14, 2011 at 3:08 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      Catholic mom... all interpretations of the bible are personal.. there are no facts to prove anything you want to invent.. You do not need proof for your faith.. but demand it from others who claim they are god or jesus..

      April 14, 2011 at 11:15 pm |
    • Maybe

      CatholicMom,
      "This is what can happen with ‘private interpretation’ of the Bible!"

      Ah, but David Koresh had a 'vision' while he was in Israel... just like Paul of Tarsus - visions and revelations make things real, according to you. In fact, the early church committees and councils who selected the books for the Bible didn't even have that – just a 'feeling'.

      April 15, 2011 at 12:09 am |
  19. doctore0

    Religion = Fancy name for mental illness.

    April 14, 2011 at 11:18 am |
    • T-party

      very true my ex neib Andrea Yates is proof of your statement

      April 14, 2011 at 11:49 pm |
  20. CW

    O my gosh,

    David Koresh was definetly NOT God in the flesh. There was only one (JESUS) and I might add he never required you give him your daughters to sle-'ep with n-or did he gather all his followers in a building and set it a blaze. What he did do is sacrifice his OWN life for all of us.

    David Koresh....if anything was a false teacher

    April 14, 2011 at 11:12 am |
    • Luke

      Prove it.

      April 14, 2011 at 11:20 am |
    • Kevin Harrison

      David Koresh and his followers were a prefect modern example of how religions start, what kind of person the supposed prophet/messiah/avatar is, what kind of people the followers are, and why all are total bullsh!t. All Koresh needed to go big-time as the messiah is an underground of proselytizers telling tall tales about him, then the appearance of a disjointed, badly written book supposedly written with divine inspiration, and pretty soon the cult becomes religion. That pattern fits Christians, Mormons, Scientologists, Muslims, Buddhists, you name it. And the beauty of it is, there are always lots of people who are willing to believe anything, not matter how obviously absurd it is (they usually vote Republican also).

      Oh, the U.S. government set the house ablaze, not Koresh. Not that he wasn't a total piece of dung.

      April 14, 2011 at 11:22 am |
    • Luke

      Kevin Harrison

      The Branch Davidians were a Protestant sect that originated in 1955 from Seventh Day Adventists. Victor Houteff, a Seventh-day Adventist Sabbath School teacher, claimed that he had a new message for his church. It was submitted to his church leaders and not accepted and was considered divisive by the leadership because it departed from basic church teachings and standards. He was exommunicated alongside those that followed him. His decendants were the ones that killed Federal Agents in Waco 18 years ago. This is not an example of religion starting. It is just infighting and a power struggle based on BS. It is no different than a corporate CEO splitting a company in two to maximize profits. Religion itself is just one long power struggle orginiating at a single point in time millennia ago.

      April 14, 2011 at 11:41 am |
    • Kevin Harrison

      Luke, I agree with your last sentence, but all the other religions split from an existing tradition also. Branch Davidianism most likely won't go big-time, but a few like it do. Look at the Mormons. Joseph Smith was obviously a con man who made it all up, ran a couple bank pyramid schemes, and despite what an astoundingly obvious fraud it was, millions now believe it.

      April 14, 2011 at 11:48 am |
    • Luke

      Kevin Harrison

      Yeah, exactly, the Mormons are just Christians with new rules and added nonsense. Nothing really all that different. And yes, Smith was merely a con man and even has a criminal record on file. Makes me want to go into business – it's not like I believe any of that crap, but I certainly know more about religion than the religious. Might as well get famous and rich off of it. And Tax Free no less!

      April 14, 2011 at 11:59 am |
    • CW

      @ Kevin Harrison,
      @ Luke,

      Your right "religion" as you put it does distort the Bible's teachings...as it only takes a David Koresh to prove it. I disagree with all that you say on the Bible though. For one a lot of the old testament has been found as historically fact. Second its been proven that Jesus walked the earth as well....you believe what you want....Like I said before I stand behind my first comment.

      April 14, 2011 at 11:59 am |
    • Luke

      CW

      "For one a lot of the old testament has been found as historically fact."

      Writing historical fact down after they happened does not make them predictive. Furthermore, you casually yield that some of it is not historically factual, nullifying the central argument of your point that the bible is the divine word of your god, which breaks your point down to a poof of logic. Your argument is therefor worthless, pointless and falsified. Have a great day.

      April 14, 2011 at 12:03 pm |
    • Reality

      Saving 2 billion lost Christians:

      There was and never will be any bodily resurrections i.e. No Easter, no Christianity i.e. Jesus still lies a-mouldering in the ground outside of Jerusalem.

      Saving 15.5 million Orthodox followers of Judaism:

      Abraham and Moses never existed.

      Added details upon request

      April 14, 2011 at 12:35 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      Luke, your description also fits Christianity. Just another split from an existing religion so they both share the same history up to the split.

      April 14, 2011 at 12:47 pm |
    • Artist

      CW, I am sorry I need for you to prove that. We have present day eye witnesses that account for him.

      April 14, 2011 at 12:54 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @CW

      You said: "David Koresh was definetly NOT God in the flesh. "

      I think Luke said it best, when he asked you to prove your claims.

      David Koresh's story even involves prophesy. I think he may have been god in the flesh.

      You said, "There was only one (JESUS) and I might add he never required you give him your daughters to sle-'ep with n-or did he gather all his followers in a building and set it a blaze. What he did do is sacrifice his OWN life for all of us."

      There is no evidence that Jesus ever actually existed. Some think He was just a myth. Other than the New Testament, which was written to establish Christ as the Messiah and to establish Christianity, there is no evidence that Jesus ever existed.

      There is tons of evidence that David Koresh existed. Even television interviews.

      You said, "David Koresh....if anything was a false teacher"

      Maybe. He also might have been god incarnate.

      Cheers!

      April 14, 2011 at 1:06 pm |
    • Jesusfreakazoid

      Good points DJ.

      With some crafty handiwork (just like in the Bible), I'm certain that it can be proven that David Koresh came from King David's blood line.

      This year I'll be saying "Merry Koreshmas"

      April 14, 2011 at 1:30 pm |
    • I_get _it

      His apostles and disciples died for him. That proves he was "God". Right?

      April 14, 2011 at 2:03 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @CW
      Much of the Epic of Gilgamesh has been proven historically accurate as well. He's even referenced in the Bible!
      Does that mean you believe that 2500 years before Christ, there was a middle eastern king who ruled for 125 years, and was 3/4 divine (a demi-god)?
      According to legend, he survived Noah's flood...

      April 14, 2011 at 2:13 pm |
    • Luke

      MarkinFL

      Yup.

      April 14, 2011 at 3:00 pm |
    • Ada Coddington

      The blogger had several errors in his article, one of which was the Davidians believing that Koresh was God. More precisely, they hoped that Koresh was a messiah. Messiah simply means "anointed one" and they (and others) believe that Jesus was the first born of many brothers.

      April 14, 2011 at 6:28 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @I_get _it

      You asked: "His apostles and disciples died for him. That proves he was "God". Right?"

      Many a radical Muslim has died for their beliefs. Does that mean Allah is the true god?

      Choosing to die for a cause, is not proof. It only proves that the person who died believed it.

      Cheers!

      April 14, 2011 at 10:05 pm |
    • I_get _it

      David Johnson,

      Yes... I was just trying to point this out to the many who keep saying, as proof for Jesus' godhood, "Why would all of Jesus' apostles die for their belief in him?" (which, by the way, hasn't even been proven - the eventual fates of most of them is unclear).

      April 14, 2011 at 11:26 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.