New abortion laws show Christian Right's continued power
Antiabortion activists outside the U.S. Supreme Court during the annual March for Life.
April 14th, 2011
02:09 PM ET

New abortion laws show Christian Right's continued power

By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor

So maybe the Christian Right isn't so dead after all.

In fact, the movement that was supposed to have been eclipsed by the fiscally focused Tea Party in recent years and was said to be reeling from the loss of leaders like Jerry Falwell is showing some pretty dramatic signs of life.

In last week’s down-to-the-wire budget battle between the White House and Republican leaders, for example, it was a GOP effort to defund Planned Parenthood – a longtime enemy of Christian conservatives – that emerged as a final stumbling block.

And Family Research Council President Tony Perkins says the last time his conservative Christian movement saw so many victories at the state level – where many legislatures are busy passing new abortion restrictions - was in 2004, when more than a dozen states adopted same-sex marriage bans.

At a moment when the Republican Party has reclaimed power in the House, has taken control of most state legislatures, and is set to begin the process of choosing its next presidential nominee, the Christian Right is playing an increasingly influential role in the party.

Just this week, Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback, a Republican, signed a pair of new Kansas laws that ban abortions after 21 weeks of pregnancy and that require minors seeking to terminate pregnancies to get consent from both their parents.

That same day, Tuesday, Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer, also a Republican, signed a new law banning state tax credits for donations to Planned Parenthood or other abortion providers.

With a handful of other states adopting their own anti-abortion measures earlier this year, Perkins says his conservative Christian agenda “has been accelerated forward” in recent months.

Liberal groups accuse Republicans in Washington of pulling a bait and switch on social issues, saying the GOP took back the House last November by campaigning on fiscal issues, turning to hot buttons like abortion only after taking office.

“I think most Americans are saying, ‘What’s going on here? We elected you all to focus on fiscal and economic issues, not social ones, and you’re not doing that,” says Planned Parenthood spokesman Tait Sye.

Sye notes that a bill called the “No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act,” which would place new restrictions on the healthcare law President Obama signed last year, was the third House resolution introduced this year, which he calls a testament to new GOP fervor on social issues.

But many political experts say that religious conservatives never went anywhere - even if the news media and some quarters of the Republican Party paid them less mind in recent years.

“The biggest reason we’ve seen all this action on abortion since the GOP came to power is that social conservatives are still a very important part of the Republican coalition,” says John Green, an expert in politics and religion at the University of Akron. “And the way parties manage coalitions is to try to give each part something it wants.”

Despite claims by some Tea Party groups that their movement represents exclusively economic conservatives, polling research shows considerable overlap among Tea Party members and the Christian Right.

About half of the Americans who identify as part of the Tea Party movement say they are also part of the religious right or conservative Christian movement, according to a survey released last year by the Public Religion Research Institute.

The survey found that most Tea Party members reflect the views of religious conservatives, as opposed to libertarians, on social issues. Nearly two-thirds of Tea Party members say abortion should be illegal in all or most cases, and less than 1-in-5 support gay marriage.

And white evangelical Protestants, the base of the Christian Right, are roughly five times more likely to agree with the Tea Party movement than to disagree with it, according to a Pew survey analysis released earlier this year.

“There’s really no daylight between those the two groups,” says Marjorie Dannenfelser, president of the anti-abortion group the Susan B. Anthony List, referring to Tea Party and religious conservatives.

She notes that Republican leaders like Indiana Rep. Mike Pence and Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann have a foot in both camps, helping to spearhead the House fight against Obama’s budget proposals and its attempt to defund Planned Parenthood.

The Family Research Council’s Perkins says new GOP efforts around abortion are a reaction to President Obama’s first years in office. Obama rescinded the ban on federal funds for overseas abortion providers and signed a healthcare law that many conservatives say subsidizes abortion, though the law’s supporters say it respects the federal ban on abortion funding.

“Politics is a pendulum that swings back and forth - the federal government overreached and now the states are responding,” Perkins says. “A lot of this is a response to the healthcare bill.”

In some states, like Ohio, fights have broken out among anti-abortion activists over how to use their new-found power, with one faction pushing for sweeping new restrictions and the other urging more incremental limits that they say will withstand legal challenges.

“Most of the lawmakers pushing for these abortion bills are not very well known even in their own states,” says Green, because many came to power in just the last year. “Their stars are still rising and that process will depend on whether their bills are successful and whether they are eventually overturned.”

Debates over how far to go in restricting abortion will likely extend all the way up to the Republican presidential primary, with likely candidates already working hard for Christian Right support.

Donald Trump, who says he will announce next month whether  he will run for president, called the Family Research Council’s Perkins last week to chat for the first time, even though the thrice-married Trump isn’t exactly known as a “family values” Republican.

“Trump knows to get to square one in the Republican primary process he has to show people that he’s pro-life,” says Perkins. “Whether he can get to square number two is another question.”

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Abortion • Barack Obama • Politics

soundoff (513 Responses)
  1. Cynthia

    Congrats Amanda!!! I had the Essure procedure 2 years ago and it was about as big a deal as getting my ears pierced. Work for a company so anti-choice they won't even allow insurance to cover birth control, so of course no procedure coverage because I "might change my mind" even though I'm married & will be 50 in a few months!!! Wish I could have had a full hysterectomy and mailed everything to Governor Goodhair (Texas) with a note saying "You seem to think this is yours – here you go!" The state has no money for education, but plenty of it to cover forced sonograms for anyone considering abortion. You're going to love knowing that a bunch of sanctimonious idiots (who probably all have at least one mistress) have no right to your body anymore!

    April 15, 2011 at 10:59 am |
    • David Johnson


      Well said! I especially thought your admission, that the procedure was not a big deal and apparently did not destroy your life, totally interesting.

      I was exchanging ideas on abortion with a fundie a while back. He made the statement, that the women who aborted a fetus, always regretted it, always were depressed for years afterward, etc. Good to see you injecting reality into the situation.!


      April 15, 2011 at 12:14 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Two dry bones agreeing with each other. If both sets of parents believed in abortion when pregnant with them, we wouldn't be reading their babble. What else is new?

      Isaiah 49:1

      1 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

      Jeremiah 1:5

      5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.


      April 15, 2011 at 3:26 pm |
    • Karen

      "reading their babble."

      Your babble is nonsense. What have you done to help the thousands upon thousands of children that are waiting to be adopted? Have you even adopted any?

      April 15, 2011 at 3:37 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Karen, the question should be directed at you. Have you adopted any? Are you even a women or another non-believer hiding behind a dummy handle?


      April 16, 2011 at 6:44 pm |
  2. Don't Tread On My Fetus

    When abortions are outlawed, only outlaws will have abortions....

    April 15, 2011 at 10:46 am |
  3. Amanda

    A microscopic bundle of cells should NEVER have more rights than a thinking, feeling person who is already established in this world. If these MANIACS want to force their beliefs on other people, then it should be eaiser to get surgically sterilized. I've been trying since I was in my early 20s but no doctor would do it. My husband has been trying to get a vasectomy since he was in his 20s as well but the doctor wouldn't do it. Because "you're too young" or "you don't have any kids yet". That's the whole point! I'll never go through the horror of childbirth, no matter what I have to do. Finally, now that I am 34 and married I can get my tubes tied, no questions asked (even though I still don't have kids). I get the procedure next month. Finally, I can be free!!!

    April 15, 2011 at 10:00 am |
    • W247

      Well that explains ALOT when reading through your comments! You have no concept of what you are talking about when you are calling a child " a microscopic bunch of cells". No comparison base.

      April 15, 2011 at 3:39 pm |
  4. ARob

    Welcome to the new Civil War, only this time instead of slave-owners hiding their avarice behind claims of state's rights, it's religious extremists who are doing that.

    It's a lesson all religious people need to learn eventually: believing something doesn't give you the right to require everyone else to believe it too. Christian rules (I won't call them laws, it implies validity) apply to those who accept them and choose to live by them.

    Christian fundamentalists, keep pushing for this, keep pushing to combine law and dogma, and you will tear this nation apart.

    April 15, 2011 at 9:35 am |
    • W247

      Get off the dope, you don't make sense.

      April 15, 2011 at 3:35 pm |
  5. Father Frank Pavone

    Interesting piece. You point out that the pro-life position is supported by the religious right, the Republicans and the Tea Party. All this is true. But even though abortion has become a political issue, after being foisted on an unsuspecting nation by seven Supreme Court justices, in reality, it is an issue that transcends politics and religion. The right to life is the most foundational right guaranteed to all Americans in the Declaration of Independence. There is no liberty for the aborted unborn, no pursuit of happiness for those torn from their mother's womb. It's an anomaly in America that the majority of those who call themselves liberal or progressive and who champion the cause of any underdog have so completely abandoned the unborn, whose rights are trampled more egregiously than those of any other group. It's time we, as a nation, stop looking at abortion as merely a political issue and see it for what it is - a matter of life and death.

    April 15, 2011 at 7:06 am |
    • Reality

      Father Frank Pavone,

      A very important reveiw. Please peruse.

      "Facts on Contraceptive Use

      January 2008


      • 62 million U.S. women (and men?) are in their childbearing years (15–44).[1]

      • 43 million women (and men) of reproductive age, or 7 in 10, are se-xually active and do not want to become pregnant, but could become pregnant if they or their partners fail to use a con-traceptive method.[2]

      • The typical U.S. woman (man?) wants only 2 children. To achieve this goal, she (he?) must use cont-raceptives for roughly 3 decades.[3]


      • Virtually all women (98%) aged 15–44 who have ever had int-ercourse have used at least one con-traceptive method.[2](and men?)

      • Overall, 62% of the 62 million women aged 15–44 are currently using one.[2] (and men)

      • 31% of the 62 million women (and men?) do not need a method because they are infertile; are pregnant, postpartum or trying to become pregnant; have never had inte-rcourse; or are not se-xually active.[2]

      • Thus, only 7% of women aged 15–44 are at risk of unwanted pregnancy but are not using con-traceptives.[2] (and men?)

      • Among the 42 million fertile, s-exually active women who do not want to become pregnant, 89% are practicing con-traception.[2] (and men?)


      • 64% of reproductive-age women who practice con-traception use reversible methods, such as oral con-traceptives or condoms. The remaining women rely on female or male sterilization.[2]


      Percentage of women (men?) experiencing an unintended pregnancy (a few examples)


      Pill (combined) --8.7
      Tubal sterilization 0.7
      Male condom --17.4
      Vasectomy--– 0.2

      Periodic abstinence 25.3
      Calendar 9.0
      Ovulation Method 3.0
      Sympto-thermal 2.0
      Post-ovulation 1.0

      No method -–85.0"

      (Abstinence) 0

      (Masturbation) 0

      More facts about contraceptives from



      Cont-raceptive method use among U.S. women who practice con-traception, 2002

      Method No. of users (in 000s) % of users
      Pill 11,661 30.6
      Male condom 6,841 18.0 "

      The pill fails to protect women 8.7% during the first year of use (from the same reference previously shown).

      i.e. 0.087 (failure rate)
      x 62 million (# child bearing women)
      x 0.62 ( % of these women using contraception )
      x 0.306 ( % of these using the pill) =

      1,020,000 unplanned pregnancies
      during the first year of pill use.

      For male condoms (failure rate of 17.4 and 18% use level)

      1,200,000 unplanned pregnancies during the first year of male condom use.

      The Gut-tmacher Inst-itute (same reference) notes also that the perfect use of the pill should result in a 0.3% failure rate
      (35,000 unplanned pregnancies) and for the male condom, a 2% failure rate (138,000 unplanned pregnancies).

      o Conclusion #1: The failures of the widely used birth "control" methods i.e. the pill and male condom have led to the large rate of abortions (one million/yr-CDC data) and S-TDs (19 million cases/yr- CDC data) in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the pill or condoms properly and/or use other methods in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and S-TDs.

      Conclusion #2 – currently, a perfect birth control barrier system does not exist. Time to develop one. In the meantime, mono-masturbation or mutual masturbation for heterose-xuals are highly recommended for those at risk. Abstinence is the another best-solution but obviously the se-x drive typically vitiates this option although being biological would it not be able to develop a drug to temporarily eliminate said drive?

      April 15, 2011 at 8:11 am |
    • Snaglepuss

      Hey Father Frank,
      Was in Washington in January and they were having a big party at the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, (Vigil for Life). My sister said there was a 30 minute LONG procession of all men to open the liturgy. Why is it you GUYS seem to value only MEN'S lives and opinions ? For that matter why is it that that particular church named itself what it did ? Is it because that the natural reproductive functions of women are not valued in their normal state, but an immaculate conception is of more value ?
      (Exit, stage left).

      April 15, 2011 at 11:40 am |
    • Artist

      Father, if it is god's will they live after aborted they will live. Eather way it is god's plan. Now dont you have some little boys to attend to or something to cover up in the church?

      April 15, 2011 at 12:00 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Father Frank Pavone,
      I haven’t been on here much due to a cold/fever but have been fortunate to be able to lay on the couch under my wool comforter and listen to EWTN. Thank you for the wonderful Masses and homilies! We are truly blessed to be able to hear God’s Word through you, one sent just as Jesus was sent by the Father.
      ‘Priests for Life’ are making the Truth known and making a difference! Thank you for all you do!

      April 15, 2011 at 7:29 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.


      April 16, 2011 at 6:41 pm |
  6. Religious laws are unconstltutional

    Look at the expression on that kid's face. There's proof of child abuse for you right there. What sort of dumb-asses take their kids to an anti-abortion rally? What makes them think that it will always be safe mentally and physically?
    I'd charge them with child abuse for just showing those kids those gross pictures I've read about. Some people have absolutely no common sense whatsoever and should never be allowed to have children. They might mean well, but they have lost the path of reason.
    Scarred for life. That's what I think when I see that picture.

    April 15, 2011 at 6:22 am |
    • The Bobinator

      > What sort of dumb-asses take their kids to an anti-abortion rally?

      The ones who wish to polarize their child and not allow them to come to a conclusion for themselves. That's for both sides.

      April 15, 2011 at 10:43 am |
    • SadieSadie

      What kind of idiots take their children to gay pride parades?
      Btw I know many children who are vocally more pro life than the adults around them. How do you know that this child didn't ask to be here?

      April 15, 2011 at 12:58 pm |
    • W247

      Wait just a tick here, why are you grossed out about the pictures if it is something that is "perfectly right" to do? Why would it gross you out to see a dead baby? Are they are doing is showing you what you are legally allowed to do? Shouldn't be an issue.

      April 15, 2011 at 3:34 pm |
  7. Adelina

    Truth and goodness prevail in America with those Christians in action!!!

    April 15, 2011 at 12:10 am |
  8. Adelina

    That's my America!!! ^^

    April 15, 2011 at 12:08 am |
    • Peter Stone

      You are not an American, nor do you life here. By what incredibly twisted logic do you perceive America ot be yours?

      April 15, 2011 at 1:42 am |
  9. Ron

    One thing I've noticed about conservative Christians and abortion. These same people yell and decry Muslims in the U.S. and claim that they are trying to establish Sharia law in our country. The problem is, Muslims will have to wait as we already have Christians trying to make their religious beliefs, the basis of our laws, Christian Sharia law. These same Christians are simply the opposite side of the coin of Muslims who want their religious beliefs made into binding laws in this country. We don't need or want either religious beliefs made into our laws. The U.S. is a secular country and some Christians hate this to no end. Taking away abortion rights of women is simply one step in the many laws that conservative Christians want to enforce.

    April 14, 2011 at 11:45 pm |
  10. Fr33d0mhawk

    The Branch Davidians are starting to run the country. Before you know it, Waco will be the New Mecca for the Christian Right. And its the Christian Right is the enemy to Family Planning. Family Planning gives plenty of low cost abortions even to Christian Right Wing hypocrites. Will the new Christian Right Cross have a right turn at the extremities of the cross, or will the symbol include the cross aflame? Christo Sharia, coming to put BIG in big government near you. Orwell got it wrong, the pigs will come wrapped in the flag and the bible.

    April 14, 2011 at 11:32 pm |
  11. Reality

    Using Guttmacher Inst-itute data on birth control method failure rates, one is able to calculate the number of unplanned pregnancies resulting from the current use of male condoms. It is an horrific number of 1.2 million/yr. Even perfect use of would result in 138,000 unplanned pregnancies.

    (And what is the abortion rate in the USA? ~1,000,000/yr CDC data.)

    Conclusion: currently, a perfect birth control barrier system does not exist. Time to develop one. In the meantime, mono-masturbation or mutual masturbation for heterose-xuals are highly recommended for those at risk. Abstinence is the another best-solution but obviously the se-x drive typically vitiates this option although being biological would it not be able to develop a drug to temporarily eliminate said drive?

    April 14, 2011 at 11:20 pm |
  12. Nursehope

    Hey Bill Watson: I think that when you become a woman you can decide what you would do with your body. Until then, keep your decisions limited to your dangling participle.

    April 14, 2011 at 10:55 pm |
    • W247

      I agree with you! And i hope ALL women make the choice NOT to have s-ex unless they are willing to take care of the potential outcome!!! Personal accountability people! Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.

      April 15, 2011 at 3:24 pm |
  13. Logan

    Christianity = The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...


    April 14, 2011 at 10:43 pm |
    • Evan

      Logan, Atheism: the belief that there was nothing, and then nothing happened to nothing, then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything, and then everything magically rearranged itself for no reason whatsoever into self-replicating bits that turned into dinosaurs.

      Christopher Hitchens, while an intelligent man, doesn't really understand Christianity, or at least views it in an extremely bias way. Christianity is not a set of rituals or outdated laws, nor is it outdated philosophy. Some may even argue it is not a religion at all. It is a relationship. It is true: in history, Christians have abused Christ's message. However, Christ's message is one of love.

      April 14, 2011 at 11:17 pm |
    • Logan


      You are talking about two men who know a lot more about Christianity than you do. Hitchens, like me, grew up studying the bible. We know it backward and forward. Which is why we are atheists. I am a pastor's son who, 20 years ago, started searching for the truth, after Christianity left me with more questions than answers. I found that it is nothing more than a man-made, blood sacrifice, death cult which stole its ideas from cults which came before it..

      You, on the other hand, are unashamed to show your complete ignorance on the subject of abiogenesis and evolution.

      Here, let a Christian explain it to you...


      April 14, 2011 at 11:52 pm |
    • David Johnson


      You said: " Atheism: the belief that there was nothing, and then nothing happened to nothing, then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything, and then everything magically rearranged itself for no reason whatsoever into self-replicating bits that turned into dinosaurs."

      Atheism is the belief that there are no gods. Your explanation of what they believe, is dumb. But as dumb as your explanation is, fundie beliefs are even dumber.

      Theism (Christian): The belief that there was nothing except for a god, who is either self created or has always existed. He magically created everything in 6 days. Which leads us to the stories in the bible which include:

      God created Adam from a handful of dirt and his spouse from a rib; Talking snakes; trees that bear fruit, that imparts knowledge and eternal life; a global flood, that required a pair of each organism on earth, be stuffed onto a boat; people who lived hundreds of years; a man who was swallowed by a fish, only to be spit up 3 days later, unhurt; a tower god was afraid might reach heaven; a woman who is turned into a pillar of salt; talking donkeys; unicorns; satyrs; a leviathan god creates and then does battle with; a zombie messiah, who was actually god incarnate; zombie Saints who left their graves and wandered about the town; belief in a circular, flat earth.

      Yep, Christian Evangelical beliefs are totally believable. LOL


      April 15, 2011 at 10:28 am |
    • The Bobinator

      > Logan, Atheism: the belief that there was nothing, and then nothing happened to nothing, then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything, and then everything magically rearranged itself for no reason whatsoever into self-replicating bits that turned into dinosaurs.

      The nicest thing I can say to you is that you are completely and totally ignorant about what atheism is, not to mention, ignorant about what science says about our creation. You quite literally have no clue of what you're saying.

      The big bang theory does not say "There was nothing before the big bang." What we say is for all intents and purposes, we cannot know what occured before the big bang at this time. Morons who don't understand the theory generally take this as "nothing existed before". Let me be blunt, it was the creation of our universe, nothing more. It was clearly caused by something, and we don't understand what that is or where it lies. All we have is the observation that it occured.

      Atheism is the lack of belief in a God or Gods. It's saying "hey, I don't see a decent reason for believing in this." That's all. People who do not understand atheism think that there is more to it. There is not. Many atheists come to the same conclusion, but that's not what atheism is.

      I'm not sure that you're a troll or not, as religious fundamentals and trolls exhibit the same fervor and idiocy as one another. If you're the former, all I have to say is meh. If you're the latter, pick up more then one book and learn something.

      April 15, 2011 at 10:41 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Logan, it's too bad you deny His truth and are on the broadway leading to the eternal flames. The sin of PRIDE got satan as it got you. You should give up getting your ego stroked.


      April 16, 2011 at 6:36 pm |
  14. paulie

    I'm against abortion but making it illegal will not stop it. Some doctors that sympathize with women's rights and not a babies life could start doing abortions without the proper equipment, maybe even a wire clothes hanger or some females might start throwing babies in dumpsters after giving birth in bathroom stalls. There is a reason why abortion is legal because that is what was going on in the 1930's. Hopefully if abortion becomes illegal It's not like the war on drugs where it will become more rampant then just keeping it legal.

    April 14, 2011 at 10:38 pm |
    • ADMile

      If a doctor performs a abortion that is (Not) sympathizing with a women's right!!!...that is just a finanical gain for him, or her,...and besides what if the fetus is a girl???...what about her right's??????

      April 15, 2011 at 1:09 am |
  15. Calif Connservative

    According to Terry O'Neill, the president of the National Organization for Women on MSNBC April 14th, 2011 with Rachel Maddow Planned Parenthood does not provide abortions when in fact they most certainly do.

    April 14, 2011 at 9:56 pm |
    • Peter Stone

      It helps to listen to all the words. Planned parenthood does not provide GOVERNMENT-FUNDED abortions.

      April 15, 2011 at 1:41 am |
  16. Jason

    I like the wording in the second paragraph here ~~ dramatic signs of LIFE - How very appropriate. Until anyone can define when human life begins; abortion will always carry with it frightening shades of gray. Murder, or choice?

    April 14, 2011 at 9:44 pm |
  17. Gavin Ford

    It's a shame that these myth-believing idiots ever had any power to begin with.

    April 14, 2011 at 9:31 pm |
    • Bill Watson

      We are tied into the Most High Power!!!

      April 14, 2011 at 9:52 pm |
    • Carlos Estevez

      The Most High Power? You are tied in with Charlie Sheen?

      April 15, 2011 at 2:51 am |
    • David Johnson

      @Bill Watson

      You said: "We are tied into the Most High Power!!!"

      Do you have any evidence that there is a power higher than man?


      April 15, 2011 at 10:02 am |
    • HeavenSent

      I notice Gavin, that you are not in office. It will stay that way too.

      Keep writing your babble nonsense.


      April 15, 2011 at 3:05 pm |
    • Logan


      April 15, 2011 at 3:38 pm |
  18. markiejoe

    Of course "the Christian Right is back." For the last 30 years the Republican Party has never been anything more than a front for the Christian Right.

    April 14, 2011 at 9:25 pm |
    • Bill Watson

      that's right. we never left.

      April 14, 2011 at 9:51 pm |
  19. HotAirAce

    The RR's and other believer's attempts at changing abortion laws for everyone is just another example of their collective hypocrisy! If they really wanted to reduce the number of abortions all they have to do is actually adhere to their stated beliefs and values. That would eliminate 70% of the abortions in the USA. No changes in any laws are required. But they are more interested in telling others what to do, rather than dealing with their own failure to follow their imaginary sky daddy.

    April 14, 2011 at 9:22 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Christians don't spread all the propaganda through the medias that turn the heads of the masses. Look what a great job they did on the non-believers minds. All of you deny your heritage in Jesus Christ.


      April 16, 2011 at 6:27 pm |
  20. Tristan Hall

    I still am curious why people (anti and pro abortion alike) make the issue about religion. The real question comes down to: "What is an unborn child?". Put in another way: "What are you killing?". When does an unborn fetus become a person? If it's okay to abort a fetus then (completely hypothetical here) why is it not okay to abort a 2 year old or a 4 year old?

    April 14, 2011 at 9:21 pm |
    • TRH

      You're a twit.

      April 14, 2011 at 9:25 pm |
    • HarvardLaw92

      Legally a fetus is not a person.

      Are you ok with pregnant women who smoke or drink being charged with child endangerment? With child abuse? You can't have it both ways.

      April 14, 2011 at 9:26 pm |
    • Jason

      So ... when does a fetus become a human?

      April 14, 2011 at 9:47 pm |
    • Bill Watson

      Scientifically a Fetus is a person.

      April 14, 2011 at 9:50 pm |
    • Nursehope

      Sorry BillWatson: Fetus does not equal person. Nice try though.

      April 14, 2011 at 10:52 pm |
    • Peter Stone

      The real question is "When does a religious person stop being an ideologically-blinded drag and start to become a human being?"

      April 14, 2011 at 11:01 pm |
    • Logan

      Christianity — The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...


      April 14, 2011 at 11:05 pm |
    • Erica

      Because the fetus isn't a 2 year old or a 4 year old. It's a fetus. That's the whole point

      April 15, 2011 at 12:25 am |
    • Jason the Pendleton Rat

      @Bill Watson
      What ? Can you tell us exactly, scientifically, what is the definition of a "person" ?
      Obviously, "personhood" is not a scientific concept. It may be a theological concept, (or construct), a legal concept, a sociological concept, but is not a scientific anything. (There is no scientific theory that is testable which would enable a study to determine what cell or group of cells are or are not a "person".) I also would be interested in knowing exactly, precisely, when a fetus becomes endowed with "personhood". Is it when the sperm cell has begun to enter the egg cell, but before the nucleus of the sperm cell is "inside" the egg cell ? What is the definition of "inside"? Is it when the sperm cell is 1 micro nanometer inside the egg cell, and before the original cell begins to replicate ? Is it when the DNA of the sperm cell and the egg cell are about to exchange genetic information ? Is it when DNA replication has just begun ? Is it when one replication process is 1/2 way done ? Is it when the first DNA replication PROCESS is complete ? Is the human intellectual concept of personhood applied to an anencephelic fetus , and which ones with all the various genetic variations of the condition where the fetus has no brain, or part of a brain ? Which part, and how much, (of a brain can be missing) exactly is a human "person " with a soul, and which exactly is not ? Does "personhood" reside in the brain, or in brain cells, and which ones ?
      Maybe an entirely new paradigm is needed ? Certainly the people with all the answers should be able to answer precisely, exactly what is what, right ?

      April 15, 2011 at 9:40 am |
    • David Johnson

      A tomato seed has all the necessary DNA to become a tomato plant. But the seed is not a plant.

      A chicken egg, contains all the DNA necessary to develop into a chicken. But the egg is not a chicken.

      A spiders eggs contain all the DNA necessary to become a spider. But, the egg is not a spider.

      Are you beginning to see a pattern here?

      And so, a fetus contains the DNA to become a baby. But a fetus is not a baby. It has the potential to become a baby, just as a carrot seed has the potential to become a carrot.

      One more time:
      "Roe v. Wade: The Supreme Court ruled that a woman has a const_itutionally guaranteed unqualified right to abortion in the first trimester of her pregnancy.

      She also has a right to terminate a pregnancy in the second trimester, although the state may limit that right when the procedure poses a health risk to the mother that is greater than the risk of carrying the fetus to term.

      In making its decision, the Court ruled that a fetus is not a person under the terms of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Const_itution." – Wikipedia

      "However, the Court also maintained that the state has an interest in protecting the life of a fetus after viability—that is, after the point at which the fetus is capable of living outside the womb.
      As a result, states were permitted to outlaw abortion in the third trimester of pregnancy except when the procedure is necessary to preserve the life of the mother. " – Wikipedia

      Hence, states allow abortions anywhere from 20 weeks to 24 weeks. The majority being 24.
      The reason the 24 week max is chosen, is because the fetus in not able to live outside it's mother until 21 to 24 weeks, with 24 being the usual.

      The fetus, less than 24 weeks is not a person. The fetus is not capable of feeling any pain until 24 weeks:
      Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, consists of a review of studies conducted since 1997 on the neuroanatomical and physiological development of the fetus. It concludes that fetuses at the 24-week stage of development do not possess the wiring to transmit pain signals from the body to the brain's cortex. Even after 24 weeks, the fetus likely exists in a state of "continuous sleep-like unconsciousness or sedation," due to the presence of chemicals such as adenosine in the surrounding amniotic fluid.

      The womb belongs to the woman. The fetus, in her womb has no legal rights until it reaches a stage that it is able to live outside it's mothers body.

      "One method of destroying a concept is by diluting its meaning. Observe that by ascribing rights to the unborn, i.e., the nonliving, the anti-abortionists obliterate the rights of the living: the right of young people to set the course of their own lives."
      — Ayn Rand ["A Last Survey — Part I", The Ayn Rand Letter Vol. IV, No. 2, 1975.]

      Which brings to this:
      13th Amendment : "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convictecd, shall exist within the United States or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

      Women or any part of their bodies, cannot be owned. Not by the government. Not by religious nuts.

      We can't legally force somebody to donate blood to save somebody else; it thus makes no sense to legally force a woman to continue a pregnancy that she doesn't want.

      Women are not broodmares. They have the right to abort the parasitic fetus, until the fetus is viable.

      GOD ON WHEN LIFE BEGINS – Genesis 2:7 (KJV)
      And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

      A toddler of 2 or 4 is a alive, by all definitions. That is the difference.



      April 15, 2011 at 9:55 am |
    • Libby

      The issue is not a "right to life" issue, it is not a religious issue, it is a women's health and civil rights issue - period. It is the right to control one's own body WITHOUT interference from the Government or the Church. It is about the right of CHOICE.

      April 15, 2011 at 10:31 am |
    • Libby

      The issue is not a "right to life" issue, it is not a religious issue, it is a women's health and civil rights issue - period. It is the right to control one's own body WITHOUT interference from the Government or the Church. It is about the right of CHOICE. It is about keeping this country a democracy or turning it in to a religiously controlled one like Iran. You can't have it both ways people.

      April 15, 2011 at 10:33 am |
    • HeavenSent

      All you sand dwellers, dry bones, spiritually dead walking and sucking up oxygen among us. It's your choice. If you don't repent to Jesus and ask for forgiveness, sin no more. You send yourselves to the eternal flames, blotted out. No eternity for you.

      In the meantime, we have to read your dribble.


      April 15, 2011 at 3:03 pm |
    • Logan


      April 15, 2011 at 3:22 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      HarvardLaw92, another one that wasted your parents money. The soul is there at conception.


      April 16, 2011 at 6:31 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.