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 Antiabortion activists outside the U.S. Supreme Court during the annual March for Life.
April 14th, 2011
02:09 PM ET
New abortion laws show Christian Right's continued powerBy Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor So maybe the Christian Right isn't so dead after all. In fact, the movement that was supposed to have been eclipsed by the fiscally focused Tea Party in recent years and was said to be reeling from the loss of leaders like Jerry Falwell is showing some pretty dramatic signs of life. In last week’s down-to-the-wire budget battle between the White House and Republican leaders, for example, it was a GOP effort to defund Planned Parenthood – a longtime enemy of Christian conservatives – that emerged as a final stumbling block. And Family Research Council President Tony Perkins says the last time his conservative Christian movement saw so many victories at the state level – where many legislatures are busy passing new abortion restrictions - was in 2004, when more than a dozen states adopted same-sex marriage bans. At a moment when the Republican Party has reclaimed power in the House, has taken control of most state legislatures, and is set to begin the process of choosing its next presidential nominee, the Christian Right is playing an increasingly influential role in the party. Just this week, Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback, a Republican, signed a pair of new Kansas laws that ban abortions after 21 weeks of pregnancy and that require minors seeking to terminate pregnancies to get consent from both their parents. That same day, Tuesday, Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer, also a Republican, signed a new law banning state tax credits for donations to Planned Parenthood or other abortion providers. With a handful of other states adopting their own anti-abortion measures earlier this year, Perkins says his conservative Christian agenda “has been accelerated forward” in recent months. Liberal groups accuse Republicans in Washington of pulling a bait and switch on social issues, saying the GOP took back the House last November by campaigning on fiscal issues, turning to hot buttons like abortion only after taking office. “I think most Americans are saying, ‘What’s going on here? We elected you all to focus on fiscal and economic issues, not social ones, and you’re not doing that,” says Planned Parenthood spokesman Tait Sye. Sye notes that a bill called the “No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act,” which would place new restrictions on the healthcare law President Obama signed last year, was the third House resolution introduced this year, which he calls a testament to new GOP fervor on social issues. But many political experts say that religious conservatives never went anywhere - even if the news media and some quarters of the Republican Party paid them less mind in recent years. “The biggest reason we’ve seen all this action on abortion since the GOP came to power is that social conservatives are still a very important part of the Republican coalition,” says John Green, an expert in politics and religion at the University of Akron. “And the way parties manage coalitions is to try to give each part something it wants.” Despite claims by some Tea Party groups that their movement represents exclusively economic conservatives, polling research shows considerable overlap among Tea Party members and the Christian Right. About half of the Americans who identify as part of the Tea Party movement say they are also part of the religious right or conservative Christian movement, according to a survey released last year by the Public Religion Research Institute. The survey found that most Tea Party members reflect the views of religious conservatives, as opposed to libertarians, on social issues. Nearly two-thirds of Tea Party members say abortion should be illegal in all or most cases, and less than 1-in-5 support gay marriage. And white evangelical Protestants, the base of the Christian Right, are roughly five times more likely to agree with the Tea Party movement than to disagree with it, according to a Pew survey analysis released earlier this year. “There’s really no daylight between those the two groups,” says Marjorie Dannenfelser, president of the anti-abortion group the Susan B. Anthony List, referring to Tea Party and religious conservatives. She notes that Republican leaders like Indiana Rep. Mike Pence and Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann have a foot in both camps, helping to spearhead the House fight against Obama’s budget proposals and its attempt to defund Planned Parenthood. The Family Research Council’s Perkins says new GOP efforts around abortion are a reaction to President Obama’s first years in office. Obama rescinded the ban on federal funds for overseas abortion providers and signed a healthcare law that many conservatives say subsidizes abortion, though the law’s supporters say it respects the federal ban on abortion funding. “Politics is a pendulum that swings back and forth - the federal government overreached and now the states are responding,” Perkins says. “A lot of this is a response to the healthcare bill.” In some states, like Ohio, fights have broken out among anti-abortion activists over how to use their new-found power, with one faction pushing for sweeping new restrictions and the other urging more incremental limits that they say will withstand legal challenges. “Most of the lawmakers pushing for these abortion bills are not very well known even in their own states,” says Green, because many came to power in just the last year. “Their stars are still rising and that process will depend on whether their bills are successful and whether they are eventually overturned.” Debates over how far to go in restricting abortion will likely extend all the way up to the Republican presidential primary, with likely candidates already working hard for Christian Right support. Donald Trump, who says he will announce next month whether he will run for president, called the Family Research Council’s Perkins last week to chat for the first time, even though the thrice-married Trump isn’t exactly known as a “family values” Republican. “Trump knows to get to square one in the Republican primary process he has to show people that he’s pro-life,” says Perkins. “Whether he can get to square number two is another question.”
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The nutty religious right are nothing but hypocrites. HS and Adelina are perfect examples: Self-righteous, pontificating windbags who deem themselves worthy to judge and decide and dictate to everyone. Too bad this isn't a theocracy, you twits. Abortion is legal and will remain so. R v W stands and has since 1973. You idiots imagine you're a serious threat to a woman's right to choose, but you aren't. Women will decide for themselves. Those too poor to travel to a state where such restrictions don't exist will either give birth to an unwanted child they can't care for; you'll pay for it through your taxes.
Tom, there are commands and demands from the Creator God to humanity. Every human life belongs to God. Both abortion and suicide is sin because life belongs to the Creator God.
this has NOTHING to do with religion. if you seriously think it does, you're simply trying to draw attention away from the real, valid reasons to be pro-life.
Religion is a lot about morality. Protecting life is every Christian's duty.
now if someone say to you, you are stupid, give her smille don't be irritated coz that too is evil and if you get angry or upset then you will fall in the same pit when the devil is cast away.....peace to you Tensai13..
Some added conclusions for those who do not think "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and "Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself" and "Do No Harm" do not pertain to the youngest members of the human race:
o Conclusion #1: The failures of the widely used birth "control" methods i.e. the pill and male condom have led to the large rate of abortions (one million/yr-CDC data) and S-TDs (19 million cases/yr- CDC data) in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the pill or condoms properly and/or use other safer methods in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and S-TDs.
Conclusion #2 – Currently, a perfect birth control barrier system does not exist. Time to develop one. In the meantime, mono-masturbation or mutual masturbation for heterose-xuals are highly recommended for those at risk. Abstinence is the another best-solution but obviously the se-x drive typically vitiates this option although being biological would it not be able to develop a drug to temporarily eliminate said drive?-------------
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do we know know Jesus ? If we don't know him, how would we able to know the Father. Jesus himself told us, he is the the truth and the life "that only thru him is how we can go to the Father. So learned from what Jesus have said on his time and meditate on them, His words are the words of God. we have to be careful about false teaching for that's the way the devil works
Today is Sunday, Others called it Palm Sunday. Most people celebrate this tradition, if so, then celebrate this day in the name of Jesus Christ.
Peace be with you!!
The religiously deluded amongst us never give up trying to impose their stupidity on the rest of us.
Tensai = natural disasters
Liberals want the Christian Right dead in America, and they are not secretive about it.
@adelena....If the way I quoted the word offended you in any way please accept my apology but I wanted you to know that I had not intended to defile the Word.
I am sure you and and EvolvedDNA do have better understanding of the Gospel. One thing I learned though.. I will not judge a man because he looks bad in the outside I would rather know first what's inside his heart.
Actually we just want The Christian Right to keep there beliefs at home and in church like our founding fathers believed. To quit involving themselves into other peoples lives telling them what they can and can't do and trying make laws that limit the rights and freedoms of people they don't agree with. If The Christian Right kept there beliefs at home, in the church and up kept separation of church and state, no one would have a problem or care.
Info, your opinion is exactly that of all kind of tyrants and terrorists want from anyone who does not agree with them. Liberals in America are downright tyrannical; they want religious people to be silent completely. Christians are the only ones who would give up their own lives to rescue those who are about to be slaughtered. Listen to Christians; otherwise, your society will be uncontrollably evil.
It's not an opinion that's how the founding fathers regarded religion. We are free to believe in anything we want in our private homes and in our churches and there is a separation of church and state was created so one religion cannot have power to say what's moral and who can and can't prey. That's why The U.S. is secular so everyone of it's people can believe freely and equally and that is something you can't fathom. You also don't know how to read since your comment had nothing to do with what i said.
"all kind of tyrants and terrorists want from anyone who does not agree with them. Liberals in America are downright tyrannical; they want religious people to be silent completely"
yes that's why i said they have the freedom to believe in anything they want too. are you illiterate? Or do you just like to spew garbage of hate and bigotry? You also have no idea what Liberal means or how our system works something someone outside of the U.S. would assume. Someone who is a tyrants and terrorists who does not agree with them and wants them to be silent is a person who limits rights, choices, says what's moral and who and how to prey is what were against. against your lack of knowledge and our history is ignorant at best.
"Christians are the only ones who would give up their own lives to rescue those who are about to be slaughtered"
How dare you slap the face of the diverse range of Americans who gave there lives to protect our freedoms and rights through our history, your the reason we have atheist your shrill ignorance, your hatred of anything different turns people away from your religion so keep up what your doing your helping us more then your helping your faith.
PP is a backhanded compliment to society. They offer free services to women, which is good, but what they are not saying is they don't want these women to have babies. Really teaching them the only option is abortion. (No man can serve two masters, either he will love the one and hate the other.) Paraphrazed PP is a lie to society. Really it's unplanned parenthood with no teaching of values that marriage should come before a child and the ability to provide children with stability before bringing a child into this world. It simply teaches it's ok to play with fire, you won't get burnt, but if you do get burnt, we will make it look like it never happened, no matter how horrible the consequence.
Brandon,
Yes, the so called Planned Parenthood is really Planned Unparenthood. Their Plan is to turn PARENTHOOD into UNparenthood because once a woman is pregnant she is already IN parenthood! Thank you for bringing PP to light…it really is PU!
You have not seen him nor you have not hear him but why are you so worried? That is something you should ask yourself.
but let me give you some advised as the Lord Jesus has also said, you...and you....and you over there.....
yes.." Don't worry about tommorow for you don't know what will tomorrow would bring.....you may not even wake up
tomorrow.
Ramon wow the Lord jesus said those words...that could never have been thought up by any other than a god so inspiring. I would have though that Lord J would have known the guys name he was calling other than you, and you over there..though.
@Ramon, where does the quote end? If till the end, wrong. It's like Satan combining truth and lies. This is the reason one should never trust quotes or references in comment sections unless verified. @EvolvedDNA, read the Gospel itself. Never trust quotes from your own types.
Wow Ramon...so deep. *cough*
Psalm 139:13-16 (NLT bible)
"You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body and knit me together in my mother's womb.
Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex! Your workmanship is marvelous- how well I know it.
You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion, as I was woven together in the dark of the womb.
You saw me before I was born. Everyday of my life was recorded in Your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed."
Your forgot to mention this is King David's account of God forming him in the womb as the pre-ordained King of Israel. There is no mention of Abortion in the bible, Abortion is not a sin. If you read Revelation 22:18 it says that anyone who adds to the bible will be condemned. Calling abortion a sin is adding to the bible, no where in the bible is that supported, The Christian Right are breaking God's commandments not to add anything to God's word.
Info, if someone cut you apart when you were a fetus or when you were a baby, it's the same thing; it would kill you. Murder is murder. Put yourself in the position of a baby who is about to be destroyed inside or outside of a womb. Why such simple logic cannot be clear to you? Stop infanticide.
2 Timothy 2:16-15 (NLT bible)
"All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives.
It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right."
once again you have to get your facts strait, it's only legal to abort the first 21 weeks when the fetus cannot live outside of the mothers womb if the mother would give birth within this time line the the fetus wouldn't survive, a miscarriage. That's why it's only allowed at this time line and no time else. It's not murder or the same thing you really need to learn the difference and are laws and why they exists.
infanticide is a doctor in Philadelphia who aborts sixth, seventh, eighth months into a pregnancy and is being convicted to the fullest extent of the law for it. As you can see America does stops infanticide and convict those guilty of it.
In America we have freedom , rights and choices, one choice and right is to allow woman to have the choice to abort, adopt, or give birth if they want to, no one has the right to tell woman what they can or can't do with their bodies.
Info, you mean in America woman has the choice to slaughter another human being just because he or she is still inside her. It's not definitely America's problem, but I'm sorry for all the American freedom fighters who died in battles so that their women can butcher their own babies. What a society.
No, I mean a American woman has the right to do what to her body that she wants too. It's not another human being the first 21 weeks per roe v wade since it can't live outside of the mother womb at this time line if she would give birth it would instantly die or miscarriage. after 21 weeks it can survive outside of the mothers womb and that's when it's illegal and is murder. you don't know anything other then how to hate and judge You with your shrill ignorance anything different to what you believe in. I feel sorry for you that you live in such a black and white world. how you can't fathom that "American freedom fighters" die in battle to protect the rights and freedoms of all people in the U.S. not just Christians, but atheist, Muslim, ho.mose.xual. everything else you hate and can't agree with.
Exodus 21:22-25 pretty much reads that if a man accidently kills a pregnant woman, that man should be condemned for committing murder. However, if he only kills the fetus (more or less miscarriage) he is not condemned for murder.
From that it seems as God does not consider pre-born fetus as being the same as a human being. Shouldn't the man be condemned for murder regardless especially when the Christian Right says life starts at conception? Picking and choosing what to follow =/
My verson reads " If men fight and hit a pregnant woman and her child is born prematurely, but there is no serious injury, he will surely be punished in accordance with what the woman's husband demands of him, and he will pay what the court decides. But if there is serious injury, then you will give a life for a life."
The Americans who left organized religions are hopelessly lazy and worship only self. They are so occupied with serving self they cannot understand religious texts or concepts.
You need to get your facts strait, folks who left organized religions know more about religious texts or concepts much more then those who claim to know them, do you know how similar each religion is to each other? seven of the Bible's ten commandments also appeared in the Egyptian Book of the Dead, which is how many years older then the bible? Those who shy away from religon do so cause they understand it much better.
Sadly things like this need to happen, when people like The Christian Right start trying to take rights away and choices it lights a fire under most people who would normally not bother with this and start to get involved to stop it, the christian right is it's own worse enemey.
Adelina..those that stay in religions could also be said to be in for the self.. hoping to get a free ride into a heaven that does not exist.. sorry.. the only soul you have is attached to your shoes.
Info, you are a typical Bible-illiterate who got brainwashed by wrong statistics. Americans should stop depending on statistics and specialists but learn stuff firsthand. Certain commands and customs overlap as sense of right and wrong and convenience in life are similar among civilizations but nothing so systematic, profound, deep, meaningful, glorious and complex like the Bible exist on earth. You have no idea because you never read. Evolved DNA, God's salvation is free, but Christian life costs one's everything. Trust in Jesus, Evo-, since you long to be with Christians forever so badly. God said there are Heaven and hell. Trust God's Word rather than your wishful thinking, Evo-.
"brainwashed by wrong statistics. Americans should stop depending on statistics and specialists but learn stuff firsthand"
can you please pinpoint these wrong statistics and specialists? I also would like to know what statistics your talking about since I didn't mention any. Evidence please.
You also didn't explain why seven of the Bible's ten commandments also appeared in the Egyptian Book of the Dead and you do know how many years the book of the dead was written before the bible was? Do you even know the Egyptian God Horus? His story is the Jesus story and was how many years before his Jesus birth? Also Apollonius of Tyana shares the same story with jesus and the two are said to have met in some point. Mithra, Dionysus, and Krishua share the same story with Jesus and some take place years and years before his arrival. Do you see the similarities? I backed my words please do the same
Info, your first comment's first content was based on wrong statistics. Yes, various ancient civilizations, not just ancient Egyptian, do carry stories of death and resurrection and coming of a great one because mankind's wishes and dreams are similar, and also the earliest prophesies given to Adam, Eve and Noah were retained by all. Demons working in pagan cultures knew some cosmic facts, too. But those myths are jokes comparing to the life of Jesus and its meanings and significances explained in the Bible. Info, you will never find the core of mattters unless you read the Gospels directly. The Bible is too original, too outstanding and supernatural comparing to anything in the world, both past and present.
You really need to look up the definition of statistics because you have no idea what that even means, 2nd it's not a statistic it's a fact, in 2600 BCE The book of the dead was written and on chapter 125 7 of the commandments were written before Christianity was every thought up. The golden rule is also borrowed from previous religions. "earliest prophesies given to Adam, Eve and Noah were retained by all" another bs lie you can't back up since you don't know any other religion your just assuming each religion has there own stories and characters that are similar. it's insane how you know so little of your own religion and how you go against your Christs teaching with such arrogant and disdain towards atheist and other religions your nothing but a bigot and hatemonger your world is only black and white and you can't fathom how a country can have so many different people with different believes that don't match yours and can live peacefully without your christs.
I am so glad I renounced organized religion 10 years ago. My only regret is that I waited until high school to do it. Hypocrisies and inconsistencies in scripture and everything else wrong with religion aside, the fact that it still holds such sway in what is supposed to be the most advanced country on Earth in the 21st century makes me sick to my stomach and very worried about our future.
God works in mysterious ways because he put us all men and women to test and allowed to be tempted by Satan. Those who had endured and who chosed Jesus and righteousness will be called children of God. Had you not known, even his only son had been tested. See that you did what he commanded you and kept it until your last day in this world that he may also raised you.Fear the Lord and show him your love not your anger for anger is the way of devil. Don't be judgemental for you will be judge but love thy one another as Jesus repeated it to us. Leaved the fate of the children to God and don't try to be God for he is only one. Teach those who need knowledge and wisdom that they may also know God. Protesting is against the law of God for thats what the Jews did all their lives. What will be our reward if we do this thing? not honoring your own law is not what our Lord Jesus had said for he told us to be obeydient to law. Give honor to those who want honor but give the Glory only to the Lord.
The way I see it , US woud have had over 70 million more Americans suffering, kids that fought old mens war, more jails filled with criminals and a troubled society than we see today.....
@Ramon, humans must work for preservation of life, never for destruction of another, except for rightful execution of criminals and combating for self or national defense. Those 70 million people may have better lives than you and I. Trust God and never destroy human babies.
Hey, Addie, how do you tell others not to destroy babies, when your God ordered others to do exactly that?
Tom, God never ordered such a thing, you illiterate. You just didn't comprehend a thing because you can't read. Blame yourself.
God did Adelina, Tom is telling the truth, I really don't want to bring up those scriptures there depressing.
Info, God ordered annihilation of Sodomite-like peoples in Canaan only in order to protect the future generations and surrounding tribes. When the sin is too much, God bestows total judgment upon certain people to honor justice. The verse in Psalm is about eradicating evil when it's still small. Don't be depressed about anything but your illiteracy.
First you say God never did that then you give an example of him doing just that. You know so little of the bible, did you even bother to read it? Or do you let someone else spin it for you? These words coming from an all forgiving and loving God. You are arrogant and ignorant and you have the nerve to try to justify those actions.
"for your children will d.ie at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you" Ho.sea 9:11-16 NLT
"And at midnight the LORD kil.led all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon" Exodus 12:29-30 NLT
"Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to de.ath right before their eyes" Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT
America – the last battleground in the West where righteousness stll has a possibility to win. God bless Christians in USA.
David Johnson,
Please, don't compare a carrot seed, a chicken egg, and spider eggs to a human being at conception. We have dignity given by God at our conception.... no other living thing has this dignity. You are more precious to God than a carrot…even a blue ribbon carrot….or a prized egg layer....or any spider.
Some added conclusions for those who do not think "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and "Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself" and "Do No Harm" do not pertain to the youngest members of the human race:
o Conclusion #1: The failures of the widely used birth "control" methods i.e. the pill and male condom have led to the large rate of abortions (one million/yr-CDC data) and S-TDs (19 million cases/yr- CDC data) in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the pill or condoms properly and/or use other safer methods in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and S-TDs.
Conclusion #2 – Currently, a perfect birth control barrier system does not exist. Time to develop one. In the meantime, mono-masturbation or mutual masturbation for heterose-xuals are highly recommended for those at risk. Abstinence is the another best-solution but obviously the se-x drive typically vitiates this option although being biological would it not be able to develop a drug to temporarily eliminate said drive?
--
Reality, as soon as conception occurs, God puts that soul(s) in the womb of woman. We (all souls) were with God from the beginning of time. Therefore, anything man/woman says is that is not Jesus' truth is a lie. You still don't get it or don't want to get it. All souls come back to this earth age (2nd earth age after God destroyed the 1st earth age), being born of woman to love and follow Jesus or love and follow satan. Then we wait for judgment day. Even though you don't believe in His truth, it's His truth just the same. What you copy and paste means absolutely nothing.
Amen.
HS,
Re-read my comments!!!
I dont get it
We tell women what to do with their lives and bodies...we are trying to demand what they should do in their complex and different situations when becoming pregnant.
But those same pro-"life" agree with capital punishment!!!
That is hipocriticcal and insane!
@Westerner
Hi -Westerner...
I believe I understand where you are coming from.
I think I have heard the arguments mostly from the Christian Right, and others that are not of the CR, but are against abortion.
It goes something like this:
1)Somewhere in the Bible there is/are some kind of passages that say abortion is wrong. I have yet to find those passages. However, the very few that have been put forth by the believers, are wildly open for massive interpretation.
2)The Christians and others believe that it is in God's plan that 'all human life' is sacred. Especially the unborn. Go forth and multiply. Human life is sacred... seemingly 'not' the 'all' life on planet Earth, which I find arrogant by the writers of the Bible.
3)In the 10 commandments, they often interpret 'thou shall not 'kill' as though shall not 'murder.' (Most Christians argue that is what it says in the Bible). So, aborting a human life is akin to 'murder.' 'Murder' is wrong. Again, they(blastocysts) have done nothing wrong. So, they make a distinction between 'killing' and 'murder.'
4)Then we get to your 'enigma' on 'Capital Punishment.' Since, they ( criminals ) have allegedly committed heinous crimes against humanity, with forethought, and given the often using of the Bible by Christians... an "Eye for an Eye" etc... the punishment fits the crime.
Therefore, it is not 'murdering' the criminals, it is the law of the bible. Killing seems to be o.k. in that interpretation in terms of criminals.
I am in know way criticizing the people that *believe* that 'abortion' is not o.k., just because I may not agree with them.
But, we all have our rights to our 'opinions.'
I think I got a lot of their arguments right... or at least in the 'ball park.'
Again, -Westerner... I do understand your stance on this.
What I truly don't understand is that there are seemingly so many more pressing issues going on...on our beautiful planet today that need fixing. So, I am with you... I don't understand why this seems to be 'front and center' along with the 'praying the gay away.'
Anyway, that's just some thoughts off the top of my head for now. For a Woman to make this decision is a tough one, and I don't believe that there are very many people that are just o.k. with this life changing issue.
Respectfully,
Peace...
Westerner, Jesus told us if someone premeditates murder to send them back to Him. He'll deal with them.
Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
Exodus 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.
Exodus 21:14 But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from mine altar, that he may die.
Leviticus 24:17 And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death.
Numbers 35:16 And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he [is] a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.
Numbers 35:17 And if he smite him with throwing a stone, wherewith he may die, and he die, he [is] a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.
Numbers 35:18 Or [if] he smite him with an hand weapon of wood, wherewith he may die, and he die, he [is] a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.
Numbers 35:19 The revenger of blood himself shall slay the murderer: when he meeteth him, he shall slay him.
Numbers 35:20 But if he thrust him of hatred, or hurl at him by laying of wait, that he die;
Numbers 35:21 Or in enmity smite him with his hand, that he die: he that smote [him] shall surely be put to death; [for] he [is] a murderer: the revenger of blood shall slay the murderer, when he meeteth him.
Amen.
Murdering women... Earth's worst horror...
Karen, the proof is in the pudding, I know lots of people that would tell you how lost and utterly hopeless they felt before asking God for forgiveness. Look around at the world, walk the streets, tell me if it is not so. Open your eyes.
It's not so. See, that was easy. Just because someone plays a pschological trick on themselves and takes the guilt out of their life by saying, "well, if I just belive in this fictional character(jebus) then I'm going to be forgiven and go to heaven no matter what I just did." doesnt mean that it's real.
Wake up and think for yourself for once in your life.
Jim, true Christians manifest a new life on earth and never live in sin or for themselves again. Salvation is free in Jesus, but following Him costs one's everything. That's why Christians are different.
@FreakZoid
"I'm not sure what point you are making. Are you saying that God knew the people that he ripped out of the women's wombs?"
You asked for a verse that those on the other side of the debate might hold to. That God knew you before you summersaulted out of your mom, means to some Christians that you had a soul at the moment of conception. So it is looked at as murder.
Its the same argument since pretty much the beginning of this debate. Some women believe that it is not a baby but only a fetus. These are basic arguments, are you legitimate in saying you have never heard the other sides arguments or that since they run contrary to your own views that you tune them out every time?
"means to some Christians that you had a soul at the moment of conception. So it is looked at as murder." I'm not sure if you are defending the easily fooled by religion people here, or just making the point that there are two side's or more to every argument.
If you are defending their belief then I ask, where do all those little just concieved but do not live either due to miscarriage or day after pill or abortion, go after they "die"? Do they get to experience thought of their own? Do they too get to sit on little fluffy clouds playing tiny little harps?
If you were just pointing out the sides thing then no need to debate, I agree, there are always at least two sides...
Scott, I must say that you are wrong. There will always be three sides. Those at the extremes and those in the middle. There are the ones that feel its ok to be pro-life and walk into a church and shoot a abortion doctor while in service and those that see that it is just a clump of cells and not a child.
Then there are the ones in the middle. On abortion the middle is extremely small, smaller than on most issues. I know I stand a bit closer to the extremes but at the same time I find myself like a lot of folks more scared of the extremes on both sides. I have a fear that the bombings will begin one day and what will we be able to do when voting and dialog comes to an end.
That day comes pro-life and pro-choice will become redundant.
As I said "there are two side's or more" & "there are always at least two sides". I was not saying there are only two.
And I believe you are wrong when you say "There will always be three sides" since often there are even more. There are those that think its wrong but would never harm someone to stop it. There are those that think it's right but would never harm someone to prove it. There are those like myself who went through a cluster pregnancy scare w/ my wife but we decided (because the law allows us to thank goodness) to deal with it and have the baby even though there was a risk of major comlications and since we had differing opinions from the doctors on what the outcome would likely be. I now have a beautiful 19 month old daughter, but I would have been extremely upset if I had not been able to make that decision instead of it being made for me. Then you have a whole rainbow of opinions in the middle, but to lock it down to three seems a bit silly.
Jesus told us His truth ...
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezekiel 18:4
Amen.