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My Take: Learn about the Bible, even if you don't believe it
April 20th, 2011
01:00 AM ET

My Take: Learn about the Bible, even if you don't believe it

Editor's Note: Kristin Swenson, Ph.D., is Associate Professor of Religious Studies at Virginia Commonwealth University and author of Bible Babel: Making Sense of the Most Talked About Book of All Time.

By Kristin Swenson, Special to CNN

"True Grit's" stern little girl Mattie - shoot, the Coen Brothers’ entire movie - dramatizes a single line of biblical text. And the way the film interprets that particular text makes that biblical verse directly related to the governor of Illinois' recent decision to ban the death penalty, a decision which was reportedly informed by the Bible.

The movie’s and the Illinois governor’s conclusions - about capital punishment in this case - are exactly opposite. While Mattie's justice requires death for the man who killed her dad, the governor's has no place for such execution. Yet both have biblical precedent.

So knowing about the Bible not only makes the movies more fun and enables critique of public policy, but it also paradoxically encourages you to think for yourself.

The Bible's long history of development, reflecting many voices, and the fact that it’s usually read in translation invite our engagement with it not merely as passive recipients of a fixed meaning but as unique individuals bringing different points of view to bear.

The trick, of course, is knowing something about the Bible, even if you don’t believe in it. And the more you know, the more intriguing it gets.

If you're not biblically literate, you can get along all right, but you're missing out. It's like a cocktail party with raucous conversation. You're invited, but until you know something about the Bible, you'll be stuck talking about the weather at the punch bowl.

Yes, "True Grit" is entertaining no matter what, and you can take Illinois Gov. Pat Quinn at his word that his death penalty decision has biblical basis, but each invites a deeper understanding. And together, they reflect the Bible's ambivalence - in this case about crime and punishment.

"The wicked flee when none pursueth," a line from Proverbs 28:1, hangs auspiciously on the screen at the beginning of "True Grit."

Knowing that Hebrew (the original language of Proverbs) creates its poetry out a system of parallel lines, might lead you to check out the line after the one quoted in True Grit: "but the righteous are as bold as a lion."

Linking the criminals' running to the boldness of a lion, the biblical verse suggests a world in which courageous good guys chase down the yellow-bellied bad with the same determination, cunning and strength as the king of beasts.

That's our Mattie, at 14 years old a cub, but single-minded in her quest to bring to justice the man who killed her father. Mattie is "the righteous," of course, and the justice she seeks is death.

Because the Bible is sacred scripture, authoritative and instructive for millions of people, many people believe, like Mattie, that certain criminals should be put to death because of what it says.

After all, the Torah, or "law," prescribes execution in several specific cases, including murder.

Yet Illinois Gov. Quinn is said to have consulted the Bible while wrestling with his decision to abolish the death penalty. What gives?

People looking to the Bible for a single, clear, yes-or-no answer about the death penalty will be disappointed, just as they are when seeking a simple, one-size-fits-all answer to abortion or environmental ethics.

For one thing, another translation of torah is "instruction." So maybe those "laws" shouldn't be taken so literally.

Indeed, while the Bible allows for all sorts of killing and would seem to demand criminal execution in certain cases, it also commands "thou shalt not kill/murder," identifies God as the only ultimate judge, and praises forgiveness and mercy.

I don't know Quinn, but I suspect he knows enough about the Bible to know that he also had to think for himself. He wisely considered that our human systems, justice included, are imperfect - and that the wrong person might be pegged for a capital crime.

Knowing about the Bible, no matter what you believe, enables you see not only why Quinn would settle on the ban but also why it was such a difficult decision: sometimes the Bible says different things.

"God said it, I believe it, that settles it," is available for bumper stickers, t-shirts, mugs, and posters. Yet the Bible's multiplicity of voices and complex history invite you to learn more and in the process to add your own voice, thoughts, and deliberations to the conversation.

First, though, you’ve got to learn about it.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Kristin Swenson.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Bible • Movies • Opinion

soundoff (1,814 Responses)
  1. EZRA

    Is it just me, or are PHDs in Religious Studies cuter than I remember.

    April 20, 2011 at 3:17 pm |
  2. cyberCMDR

    I guess people need to decide whether to take the blue pill or the red pill. Take the blue pill, and you can stay in your theological Matrix where physical laws work unless they disagree with your interpretation of the Bible, or take the red pill and live in reality. With the blue pill, you get to live in a 6000 year old Earth, all living things were created over one week, and God can stop the Sun from going around the Earth. Take the red pill, and you can understand how the universe actually works.

    April 20, 2011 at 3:16 pm |
  3. Mike

    @MrHanson, and scientists would disagree with you.

    April 20, 2011 at 3:15 pm |
    • MrHanson

      Um ya. Atheistic scientists and the high priests of evolution would like to disagree with me but the science does not. Darwin thought the cell was just a simple blob of protoplasm. We all know how that turned out. Haven't you read any articles on molecular biology lately? Obviously you have not. I find it interesting that whenever I read a facinating article on a newly discovered biological complexity, sometimes evolution is tacked on to the end a an afterthought. They don't know how it evolved, but we know it just did. It's a statement of faith. Something many scientists are finally beginning to realize.
      (www.uncommondescent.com)

      April 20, 2011 at 3:42 pm |
  4. Kenrick Benjamin

    The Bible a book for the ages.

    April 20, 2011 at 3:15 pm |
  5. anita dietrich

    Great article but the the biblical stand on abortion (unlike environmental ethics) is clear. God created life and taking life is murder.

    April 20, 2011 at 3:14 pm |
    • Matt

      Unfortunately, you can no longer state such things with the kind of finality your likely used to. If it's that simple then I would wonder how you manage to eat and move.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:22 pm |
    • Observer

      The Bible offers more to support abortion than against it.
      The Bible is full of commands from God to kill women and NEVER ONCE does God give a rip if they are pregnant or not.
      Also, the Bible says that if a fetus is killed, the penalty is a FINE to be paid to the parent. It's CLEARly NOT murder.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:29 pm |
  6. Patrick

    This justification could be used to read any book in existence that offers differing viewpoints. I don't get why the Bible is so special according to the author's points given. Our society is also heavily based on Plato's Five Dialogues, Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations, Shakepeare, the writings of Voltaire and John Locke, and many, many other works. Why doesn't the author recommend them? Why not just release the list of required reading for any given college and call it a day?!

    April 20, 2011 at 3:14 pm |
    • Jason

      Interestingly, there are over 400 accounts of Jesus and only but a handful of Plato, yet his words take on greater significance. By some posters' theories, this would make Plato a mythical character.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:18 pm |
    • QS

      Perhaps Plato simply had more significant, and relevant, things to say.

      April 20, 2011 at 4:28 pm |
  7. jcg

    I say read the Torah and Quran too.

    April 20, 2011 at 3:14 pm |
    • maggie

      You you do not understand the bible otherwise you would not say what you said about David. Who told David to rage war against the neighboring nations?

      April 20, 2011 at 3:25 pm |
    • jcg

      But then it's ok to kill if God says. Kind of a double standard. Listen I'm not saying the bible is wrong or tring to disprove your point. Also note that I don't read the old testament. Read it a LONG time ago found it boring. I like the new test. Jesus is a rightous dude. Anyway off the subject. I was saying that I found it wierd that our bible says at certain times you can kill and it's ok but not always. Just wierd to me

      April 20, 2011 at 3:41 pm |
    • jcg

      AAAHHHH got u maggie. True. Sorry read the question wrong. But God still forgave him?

      April 20, 2011 at 3:49 pm |
  8. maggie

    I met a lot of people who read the bible but do not understand it. The bible has to be taken as a whole but not in part. Most people stick to part of the bible that can be very confusing and dangerous. I read the entire bible cover to cover every year by reading 4 to 5 chapters a day and every time I deepen my appreciation for the book more and more. The bible is divided between laws and priciples. The laws usually says do not do that but the principles are not so clear cut, however this where your understanding of the bible comes in. For example, if your a nurse and you believe in the bible and you try to live your life according to such. and you know that the bible says do not murder, if you decide to take a job in a abortion clinic although you are not the one performing the precedures but you are an accomplice and accountable to God.

    April 20, 2011 at 3:13 pm |
    • jcg

      Your last part makes no sense. People in the bible kill a bunch. David prime example. Nothing happens to him infact he becomes a prophet AND KING

      April 20, 2011 at 3:17 pm |
    • John

      DAvid was not allowed to buitd the temple either. No one in the bible was perfect, except Christ. Also see EZE chapter 20 for info on good vs bad laws.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:24 pm |
    • jcg

      I Understand that John. Just trying to make a point that in the bible SOMETIMES it's ok to kill. Thats what doesn't make sense to me. Oh and my ultimate point was did david go to heaven?

      April 20, 2011 at 3:43 pm |
  9. John

    You people calling the bible a myth and fiction crack me up. Why do you do that when you have not read it? You may have had someone else tell you what it says, but you have not read it yourselves. The book of Isaiah for instance is historically accurate as being from the other side of a seige. The opposite site is found on the Taylor Prism. 701 bc, Nineveh... the annals of the Assyrian king Sennacherib notable for describing his siege of Jerusalem in 701 BC during the reign of king Hezekiah. You call "christian" closed minded, but I laugh at you for being the same. Basically you and "christians" are both lazy to learn the truth. You should not be opening your mouths being so ignorant on the subject. You look like idiots.

    April 20, 2011 at 3:13 pm |
    • Observer

      Speaking of historical accuracy, which is the TRUE Bible version? The more than 20 English versions can't even decide if Jehoiachin was 8 or 18 when he became king. So which is it for historical accuracy?

      April 20, 2011 at 3:24 pm |
    • Dog Boy

      John – how do you know we haven't read it. I read it in catholic school, I read it in recovery, I read it as in a university level senior seminar on the bible (16 weeks of intesive study using various translations), and I read it on a personal level. At one time, I even endeavored to memorize it.

      As others have posted, all this reading has led me to leave my religion and concentrate on being a good person, not based on what the bible tells us, but based on what we inherently know to be right.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:26 pm |
    • John

      Well. In 70 AD Rome burned most of the works, which ALL came from Israel. Who can really say for 100 percent accuracy which is right. they all say the same thing as an ehtire whole. I also read books referenced in the bible that are not in the bible and a lot of those have helped.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:28 pm |
    • John

      You really read it? Think about this. Someone tell you a very detailed account of a book they read. Then you go and read it yourself. What happens to the story. I think the only way to get an accurate representation of the story is to forget everything that person said and then read it.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:32 pm |
  10. karek40

    To J C who doesn't care much for fiction. The book of Isaiah contains predictions of many very specific events that came to pass exactly as foretold hundreds of years after it was written, I don’t know of another book (fiction or otherwise) that has that information in it.

    April 20, 2011 at 3:11 pm |
    • WSPenwell

      So what proof do you have outside of the bible that the book of Isaish was written when you said it was?

      April 20, 2011 at 3:15 pm |
  11. YOU

    I'm an agnostic leaning towards atheist, basically I don't have the answers and I don't think you do either :D. But I do think everyone should read the bible, koran etc... and I believe everyone should take a theology course. You discover more than you imagined you'd will, and gain a wealth of knowledge. If you are searching for religion or faith, I suggest you do your research first, weigh your options, and follow your heart. While my own beliefs may not mirror yours, I think its everyone's right as a human to decide their own path. Just make sure you do your homework! It's astounding how many people I have met from different faiths who know less about their holy book, origins, and practices than I do. Me! The scary atheist. lol. I welcome anybody to teach me about their faith and religion, just make sure you are doing the work! Even if there are some things you really dont want to know or some things that may challenge your faith, still do it. I had a christian friend who took up my challenge, found out some greats things, and not so great things, but in the end it made their faith stronger. But, this is just one instance, it's different for everybody. Just do your homework,study other religions(you can do that without foresaking your own), and please, if you asked me if I have read the bible, make sure you have first 😉

    April 20, 2011 at 3:11 pm |
    • Geez

      *standing ovation*

      April 20, 2011 at 3:13 pm |
    • Sparks

      *standing ovation*

      April 20, 2011 at 3:19 pm |
  12. WSPenwell

    Even when I was 5 years old, at that age I thought the bible was a load of crap. Makes one wonder that if a 5 year old can figure that out is how a bunch of grown adults buy into the load of hog wash.

    April 20, 2011 at 3:10 pm |
    • QS

      This is actually a very easy question to answer – guilt, fear and successful indoctrination are the root causes that most people aren't as lucky as we were at the ripe old age of 5 to have reasoned out were completely ridiculous reasons to believe what we were being told to.

      Add in a little help from the already-indoctrinated parents enforcing those beliefs (in essence forcing their children to believe as they do "or else") and presto, you have a society that reflects a majority which has abandoned logic and reason for magic and gimmicks.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:22 pm |
    • MrHanson

      Oh gee, I don't know, Maybe people are trying to find hope and meaning in their lives and they reject a purposeless, empty, materialistic view of the universe that people like you try to indoctrinate other people with.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:26 pm |
    • Steve Luke

      You had a hardened heart at an early age. Generally speaking, a 5 year old is more likely to accept Christianity and an adult is.

      April 20, 2011 at 4:03 pm |
  13. Jobe1010

    I'm reading opinions on religious beliefs ranging the spectrum of Pro to Con to incomprehensible with no threats of violence, outside of some ignorant name calling... ! The right to worship or not, believe through faith or not... ain't Freedom of Religion great

    BTW those who believe in Bible (or other religious writing) do so through faith. That faith is the same faith as some unknown scientist telling me that through the a space telescope, a star is being sucked into a black hole, I have no way to independently proving it. I just have to accept what I am told as truth... because "... faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Heb.11:1).

    April 20, 2011 at 3:09 pm |
    • A Scientist

      Not even close to being the same thing. You can spend 10 years learning about black holes and becoming an expert on a subject and then run the same tests and confirm the same theories. That is the beauty of science. ANYONE can do it. You can prove and disprove but you must have evidence to support your theories. Religion is based on coming up with an idea, doing nothing to back it up, and expecting it to stick because of a word like faith.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:34 pm |
    • Jobe1010

      @ A Scientist... actually it is, people have spent their entire lives in pursuit of knowledge, religious or scientific, and have become experts in their field. Both are highly motivated people learning every day on their subject matter. Neither is better or worse then the other, neither is less intelligent then the other. Using your own intellect you decided for yourself what is true. Now do people go over board in forcing their beliefs, yes. Is history wrought with injustices brought on by religion, yup. Mostly because people run religion (this is a poke at the Catholicism) and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I'm actually not arguing against you but I was raise in a Christian household, I have read the Bible, my parents were very strong in their beliefs, me not so much. I do have a hard time though with people thinking folks are addle minded if they believe in something others do not (I don't believe in UFO's but I could be wrong)

      April 20, 2011 at 4:03 pm |
  14. Doug

    ALL RELIGIONS ARE FOR IDIOTS.
    nothing but the EVIL controlling the STUPID.

    Just fairy tales told by FAIRIES.
    MEN IN DRESSES, telling other men to NOT WEAR DRESSES.

    The Christians are led by a PREENING QUEEN in the Vatican who was a NAZI SOLDIER.
    Gee, didn't GOD tell him that was WRONG?!? Or did GOD support the NAZIS!!!???

    ALL RELIGIONS ARE GARBAGE FOR MORONS.

    April 20, 2011 at 3:09 pm |
    • MrHanson

      Including Darwinism.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:16 pm |
    • Dexter Skagway

      Show me one definition of religion that Darwinism would fit.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:32 pm |
    • MrHanson

      Religions don't necessarily involve a Deity.

      As I replied below,

      Atheistic scientists and the high priests of evolution would like to disagree with me but the science does not. Darwin thought the cell was just a simple blob of protoplasm. We all know how that turned out. Haven't you read any articles on molecular biology lately? Obviously you have not. I find it interesting that whenever I read a facinating article on a newly discovered biological complexity, sometimes evolution is tacked on to the end a an afterthought. They don't know how it evolved, but they know it just did. It's a statement of faith. Thankfully something many scientists are finally beginning to realize.
      (www.uncommondescent.com)

      There you have it. Darwinism is a religion. Plain and simple. It takes faith.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:50 pm |
    • Artist

      Are we to assume that all atheists accept darwinism? Is it far fetched to think we came from apes? Perhaps...but it is even more far fetched to still believe in gods. lol

      April 20, 2011 at 3:54 pm |
    • Dexter Skagway

      That's totally deluded and idiotic, Hanson. Evolution is science, not a religion. You do not get to reinvent the definition of religion to fit your biases.

      April 20, 2011 at 9:49 pm |
  15. kso

    let's see, the first chapter is absolutely wrong and based mainly on assumptions and the last chapter is founded solely on false prophecies.... someone remind me why i should base anything in my life on that book?

    April 20, 2011 at 3:07 pm |
    • Artist

      Do it for bits and giggles... BE A JESUS WARRIOR FOR A DAY!

      April 20, 2011 at 3:08 pm |
    • WSPenwell

      You mean the last chapter was written by someone that was high on drugs.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:16 pm |
  16. Buddha's Buddy

    Yeah, right. Just as soon as the Bible-Thumpers get around to reading the Koran.
    What a silly, shallow article.

    April 20, 2011 at 3:05 pm |
    • Geez

      Looks like someone missed the point of the article.... that is if you read it all.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:07 pm |
    • john

      whats does 'just as soon' refer to?

      April 20, 2011 at 3:07 pm |
  17. Steve Luke

    It hit me a moment ago how foolish I must be to argue here. So many of those with whom I disagree claim to have read the Bible and have not been affected by it at all. If you are not impressed by the Bible and can't appreciate its value after reading it, there is no reason to believe you could be convinced by anything I have to say. I'm just a guy you don't even know typing on a keyboard.

    April 20, 2011 at 3:05 pm |
    • GodisDead

      I was very impressed with it....its crazy to see how much BS is in there yet so many people worldwide accept it as literal truth no questions asked.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:07 pm |
    • john

      is dead.. troll. If you bothered youd know people of ALL faiths are filled with questions. it is the driving force. Questions about God, ourselves, people like you.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:12 pm |
    • QS

      "If you are not impressed by the Bible and can't appreciate its value after reading it, there is no reason to believe you could be convinced by anything I have to say."

      Whoa, wait a sec....I'm a little thrown off by this one....could this possibly be a religious person actually understanding and acknowledging what we Atheists have been saying? Are we finally starting to get through to some?

      Now, if we could just get them to stop trying to use their beliefs to act as the morality police for the rest of us, we'd be making real progress.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:15 pm |
    • Steve Luke

      John- I realize others have questions and I'm willing to discuss. I just think this particular forum lacks credibility and I'm wasting time. I think it is better to have these kinds of discussions face to face where people can talk civily. On a message board or blog, it's too easy to call someone a name or just make fun without ever really engage in intelligent thought.

      QS- I spent four horrible years as an atheist. I don't regard those who disagree with me as idiots. I see them as people who have come to a different conclusion. Again, I'd rather have a civil conversation with a real person than a flameout with a troll. My default position in talking to anyone on any topic is to offer my respect and my ear first and my own opinion later.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:22 pm |
    • jonathan

      @ Gis Dead.. that's because it's true.. LOL 🙂

      April 20, 2011 at 3:26 pm |
    • QS

      @Luke

      "QS- I spent four horrible years as an atheist. I don't regard those who disagree with me as idiots. I see them as people who have come to a different conclusion. Again, I'd rather have a civil conversation with a real person than a flameout with a troll. My default position in talking to anyone on any topic is to offer my respect and my ear first and my own opinion later."

      I'm sorry that your attempt to shed your indoctrination was unsuccessful, but I find this to be a disingenuous statement considering some of your other replies on some other comments...

      "You had a hardened heart at an early age. Generally speaking, a 5 year old is more likely to accept Christianity and an adult is."

      So if a 5 year old "comes to a different conclusion" as you say, your opinion that you waited to give after offering your respect and ear, is that that 5 year old had a hardened heart from a young age...because they discovered for themselves at a young age that what you believe is make-believe? Sorry if I don't see much in the way of respect shown for that opinion, 5 years old or not.

      I'm not name calling, and I'm not a troll. I'm an Atheist, who happens to also be gay. I was also roughly 5 when I realized for myself that religion is simply control and has nothing to offer other than speculation, conjecture and whimsy...along with a quite childish idea for how people can live forever.

      Funny thing about religion for me though – if I was not an Atheist I'd still be gay, and if I was not gay I'd still be an Atheist.

      April 20, 2011 at 4:23 pm |
  18. 1163rieh

    If you read the Bible (old testament through to the new testament) there is a great message of hope and truth.

    April 20, 2011 at 3:04 pm |
    • cmc

      Couldn't you say the same thing about the Torah or the Koran? Books about Buddhist teachings? What makes one right and not the other?

      April 20, 2011 at 3:08 pm |
    • john

      cmc. i didnt see anything in his post saying anything about the koran or any other book not saying the same.. whats up?

      April 20, 2011 at 3:10 pm |
    • Geez

      cmc, I fail to see where the poster implied that either the Torah or Koran werent filled with hope or truth... I also fail to see where the poster said that the bible was right and the others were wrong...

      April 20, 2011 at 3:11 pm |
    • josh

      Funny...when i read it i saw hatred, murder, persecution, and malice....there were occasional "god loves you" and ""peace for all", reading religious text usually turns me away from the religion, a lot of theists have not read it through and through, they read what they are told to read, avoiding the bad parts.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:13 pm |
    • Geez

      josh, maybe just maybe, do you think that you could be only reading into it what you want as well?

      April 20, 2011 at 3:16 pm |
    • StudentOfLife

      There is also a messsage of love (Song of Solomon). Unfortunately, this is often overlooked or downplayed.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:19 pm |
    • jonathan

      @cmc there can only be one..the torah says so the new testament says so..I take the new over the old..the new testament is new everyday so it cannot be out new by a newer .. 🙂 it's the first the last and my everything 🙂 I'll take your old testamnt and raise you a new one...I win 🙂

      April 20, 2011 at 3:24 pm |
  19. Bud

    Even in the Bible, God noted that some are pure evil and need not be "available" any longer. However, if you really are interested in what the book actually SAYS, you need to Google "Dake,torrent." If you'll listen to it (MP3 files), it'll make a lot more sense to you!

    April 20, 2011 at 3:03 pm |
  20. Marty

    Although I have read better fiction,the bible is not a bad read for a bunch of fables.It might even make a decent video game.

    April 20, 2011 at 3:03 pm |
    • john

      this entire article has nothing to do with real or fake. why are you injecting your religion into this?.. geesh

      April 20, 2011 at 3:06 pm |
    • MrHanson

      I think Biblical Archeologists would happily disagree with you.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:14 pm |
    • Mike

      @MrHanson and Scientists would disagree with you.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:16 pm |
    • jcg

      @Mike
      No they wouldn't. Any scientist would tell you that all science is is observations. They may be wrong they may be right. But until you can prove my observation wrong the observation is right.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:29 pm |
    • Suzie

      So jcg I am observing you being an idiot. That must mean I am right.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:32 pm |
    • Rabbit

      Fables indeed. What is wrong with doing good for the sake of doing good? Why must religion always climb in? The article is good in that it does provide good advice, such to have an understanding of the Bible even if you don't believe. Point of argument for the Senator: If thou shalt not kill/murder, Then why are we involved in three wars. Is there anybody over there dying? Were not the wars fought biblically sanctioned by God. Therefore did'nt God give man certain rights. When a police officer makes a life and death decision, should he cry out...okay God, you can take the guy holding a gun to his children's heads out at any moment, should you wish to. I think not! Religion...rubbish! When a 14 year old girl is bullwhipped as sanctioned by Muslim law for adultery that she is not guilty of, should there not be recourse for discent. What you need to know is this...Space is infinite and eternal. We are all just a pile of ants on top of log headed towards a raging river, and every single one of us thinks that we are in charge. Every religion represents a different ant.

      April 20, 2011 at 3:39 pm |
    • jcg

      Ouch suzie. Yes you would be right till I get someone to disprove you which will be easy.....I hope.

      April 20, 2011 at 4:08 pm |
    • Steve Luke

      Please make an intelligent argument so we can have a discussion. Labelling the other side as stupid or following fairy tales and fables really doesn't advance discussion.

      April 20, 2011 at 7:06 pm |
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