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April 21st, 2011
12:01 AM ET
My Take: Is Judas in heaven or hell? God only knows
By Craig Gross, Special to CNN I heard a news clip promoting my recent speaking engagement at a church, and they mentioned that I deal with some of "the greatest sinners of all time." I thought to myself: Do I? Would people who are caught up in porn and sexual sin addictions consider themselves some of the greatest sinners of all time? Probably not. Without a doubt, Judas, the biblical disciple of Jesus, is considered the greatest sinner of all time because of what he did to Jesus. Here is the passage from Luke 22:21-22.
No surprises there. But for the one who turns him in - who turns traitor to the Son of Man - this is doomsday. Let me tell you a little bit about what the Bible says about Judas: He was personally chosen to be an apostle by Jesus. He spent 3 1/2 years traveling with Jesus. He saw all the miracles of Christ in person. He watched as Christ healed the sick, raised the dead and cast out demons. In terms of experience with Jesus, whatever you can say about Peter, James and John, you can say about Judas. On top of all this, he handled the money, which is most of the time the most trusted one in the bunch. No one suspected that Judas would betray Jesus, which tells me he was a believer. His life was changed. He knew Jesus personally. In a dark moment of his life, he made a mistake. A big one. He sold Jesus out for 30 silver coins or so. The moment he knew what he had done, he felt remorse, and he killed himself. I am not here to debate theology. The facts are the facts. I don't think Judas was “The Mole,” like the reality show character who's there to sabotage the game from the beginning. I think he made a mistake and now has gone down as committing the biggest sin of all time. Judas heard every message, saw every miracle, and still screwed up. Recently, I asked on my Facebook page: "Is Judas in heaven or hell?" The first response was:
There is a button on Facebook that I have started to love. It is called “unfriend.” I won't unfriend you because you believe differently than I do, I just don’t need more theologians as my friends on Facebook who speak with such confidence when it comes to someone's place in eternity. A debate continues on my Facebook wall. I love how everyone is so convinced they know whether Judas is in heaven or hell. I don't know who gets in, actually. Do I believe in heaven and hell? Yes. I believe one is dark and one is light, and they both last forever. Belief Blog: What if there is no hell? What is interesting to me is that in the upper room where Jesus and his disciples shared their last supper together, the 12 disciples all talked about how they were so great. Peter left the room and denied Jesus three times. Judas left the room and sold Jesus out for 30 coins. One committed suicide, and one went on to build the church as we know it today. Both Peter and Judas committed the same sin. They both denied Jesus. But why do most people think one goes to heaven and one goes to hell? This is not the debate Christians need to be engaged in. We don’t know. Instead of wasting our time on these types of arguments inside our little Christian world, maybe we should look inside ourselves this Easter. It is easier to debate these issues and make speculations about others than it is to actually look at ourselves in the mirror. It is always easier to think someone else is worse off then we are. But maybe as we approach Easter, we can be reminded that for Christians, the cross and the grave should silence all of these debates. We all fall short and deserve death, but because of what Jesus did on the cross 2,000 years ago, we are able to have life. And I believe that where you end up, God only knows. |
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Editor's Note: 
There is no "God" so it really doesn't matter.
Please prove your hypothesis.
Krejaton – there is no proof necessary. You have no proof for your position either. Belief is an act of faith and that is a personal act not one that can be given away or proven.
It is not a "hypothesis" to prove or disprove, considering that the belief was created by man though a series of stories, based on dreams and action that have been embellished throughout the ages.
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
If Craig Gross is trtuely a priest that preaches even basic christian doctrine, then he'd know that Judas is neither in heaven or hell. He'd know that Judas is in a "deep sleep" like the rest of those people in cemeteries who won't be awaken until the judgement day. Jeeesh, what a maroon.
If the son of God was meant to be betrayed and murdered as the prophesies foretold, then was Judas really in control of his destiny and did he really have free will?? In that case, is he truly at fault? These are very deep theological and philosophical questions, I do not think any of us, including the author of this article, can definitely answer!
Your article sounded like what happened over a 100 years ago: The founder of our modern day history of Jehovah's Witnesses Charles Taze Russell. An Eternal Torment for the wicked just doesn't make sense. That debacle is one of the reasons that he started searching the scriptures himself. Romans Chapter 6 verse 23 says 'The wages of sin pays is DEATH'... It is simple as that. He also could not reconcile eternal torment with a 'God of Love'. Man lives 70+ years and dies, and then he is punished eternally? The punishment does not fit the crime! But if he is just sleeping in death, and not resurrected. That would make much more sense. The bible compares death to sleep on many occasions. People still do that often. Why is it necessary to imagine that they are conscience somewhere and experiencing pain?
The spirit cannot experience physical pain. I hate people who pick out a sentnece in the bible and use it out of context. And if Mormons believe their holy book was given to them by the angle Moroni, why aren;t they called Morons? It would be more fitting.
Was the angel "Moroni" of Italian extraction? I knew a Salvatore Maroni, but he was no angel.
who cares where Judas is, he is dead
The fact that Judas is referred to as the "son of perdition" tells me his place is in Hell.
I don't believe he was forced to do it. What I do believe is that Jesus chose someone that he knew
(in advance) would be willing to betray Him in exchange for money.
Judas was a thief and a betrayer and willing to sell innocent blood for lousy, stinking, money.
He was typecast for the part, I would say.
So your theory is that God purposefully creates bad people so that he can then make and example of them and toss
them into hell and torture them forever? The sad thing is, what you propose actually DOES coincide with what you would have to think to believe in the childish Bible.
What a joke religion is. I have always said, the best way to make someone an atheist is to get them to actually read the Bible. The sad thing is most Christians actually don't, they just gobble up the nonsense from the pulpit and call it good. They don't even know the bull**** they subscribe to.
Azel – It is a common belief in Calvinistic religions that some people are doomed no matter how they act or even if they want to be saved. The silly followers of Calvin should realize that Calvin didn't think there was any real need for "Religion" as in organized Churches.
tHANKS FOR TALKING SE SENSIBLY!
@Ned Bare: Of all the impossibilities of religion, the flawed logic, the hypocritical motivations and history, you question the span of time it takes a by-legend-omnipresent, eternal deity to judge a person? Really?
My post was removed. Was that because I made the correction.
To say whether or not anyone goes to heaven or hell is to act as both judge and jury. I would not be wanting to act in that capacity regarding my next door neighbor much less of people of a different culture who lived over 2000 years ago. However, regarding the idea that both Judas and Peter denied knowing Jesus, my understanding was that one asked repentance and the other did not. Had Judas asked for forgiveness, he would have retaken his place among the apostles just as Paul did after his brutal persecution of this believers.
Religion is nonsense. I spent 40 years of my life studying it, being a "believer" and basically "drinking the koolaid". Look, we don't really know if the bible stories are accurate or not. They were written 40 to 80 years after the death of Jesus. Further, there's a lot of embelishments that sensationalized the bible stories because of politics and power struggles going on at the time these were written. Further, there's a HUGE body of gospels (Nag Hammati Library) that suggests that the current form of Christianity was something stoked by Constanine, the Roman emporer in and around 315 AD.....of which we're still consumed with that vis a vi the Niecene Creed.
Look, Christianity and Islam and Judaism.....they're all man made. They purport to be constructed by divine inspiration, and the modern (315 ad onward) form of christianity creates all kinds of wild things that point to divine godly intervention (i.e. miracles, and healings, and for pete's sake.....ressurections....). Folks, it's all BS. USe your brians.
If religion is nonsense, why do you spend so much time reading and responding to articles like this? I think you are still looking for answers. I hope you find them. Go bless you.
Kdavid3 wrote: "If religion is nonsense, why do you spend so much time reading and responding to articles like this? "
Because the Great Deluded insist on spreading their ignorance into all facets of modern life and government...
In DOGs we trust...
@KDavid3:
Your right, but at the same time your wrong. The continual belief with writings that were written over 2000 years ago and to treat them as truth is INSANE. But then these are the very same people who put-down the Mormons as “crack-pots” for believing that “John Smith” saw JESUS in a “Top-Hat” (boy paint the kettle black), or that the poor Jehovah’s witness are a bunch of “whack-job” looking for a messiah. No you need not look any farther than yourself.
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
Proverbs 12:15
Amen.
Continued from p. 16:
The Judas stories are mostly legends created by M, M, L and J.
For example:
http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php?ti-tle=189_Better_Not_Born:
And from Professor Gerd Ludemann's book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 96:
"Jesus never spoke the words about the betrayal of Jesus e.g. Mark 14: 17-21. Rather, from the fact the Jesus was betrayed, early Christians concluded that Jesus must have known this in advance and therefore prophesied it. "
Mark 14: 43-45
Jesus is arrested:
From Ludemann, p. 99:
"The report is strongly legendary and in part enigmatic. "
The thirty pieces of silver and suicide legend: ex. Matt 27: 3-10
"The historical value is nil." p. 246
All have sinned and made mistakes. (sin is sin) I just wish Judas would have ask JESUS for forgiveness. Surely JESUS would have forgiven Judas. My hope is that Judas is in Heaven. If JESUS had not layed down HIS life, we all would have been doomed for hell.
Sin is a word that means to miss the mark. No more no less, Fundamentalist Preachers in order to have power over the sheep have made it into something it wasn't. You shouldn’t get your theology from some hillbilly that has only read the King James Bible and thinks they know what it means.
I wish he had used some proper English and had askED.....
or maybe he should have "axed"......but I guess we better not be goin' there.......
Stupidest article ever. I have another one for you: Do unicorns live at Rainbow Bright's castle or do they live with the Care Bears?
My question is equally as valid as this article. Both are imaginary bulls***. More stuff for people to waste their time with while real problems in the world aren't dealt with.
This is disconcerting. Having my faith in the Care Bears questioned like this is hurtful and sinful, and you, sir, are going to hell to burn in the fires of Strawberry Shortcake for all eternity.
I can't even believe there is a debate on this. There are no unicorns in the world of Care Bears. Rainbow Bright had an "almost" unicorn, but the things horn was shaved off and replaced with a gold star sticker. Obviously, there is a huge amount of bigotry and hatred toward unicorns at Rainbow Bright Castle which in itself implies the existence of unicorns in the world. It just happens to be a world that hates them. Why the existence of unicorns in the care bear universe would even be suggested is beyond me. If there had been a unicorn there you know those happy ass rainbow colored bears would be slobbering all over it. No care bear could display the hatred and bigotry of the Rainbow Bright verse.
All of you are wrong. Unicorns are the mode of transportation to Cybertron for GI Joes when they sacrifice themselves in the name of Optimus Prime. There these martyred Joes are met by 72 new-in-box Barbies, and there isn't a cherry bomb in sight.
My faith in unicorns is validated, and I care about bears, but the Flying Spaghetti Monster has meatballs over every other god and his noodly appendage can touch all.
RAmen
Rich wrote: " Unicorns are the mode of transportation to Cybertron for GI Joes "
Except, of course, in Australia, where the mode of transportation for GI Joey-s is via Kangaroos...
neither they dont exist
i have to leave now but will check back later for serious responders, not "evolved" people that can't see the obvious. thanks, jg
us "evolved" folks have nothing on you "created" folks, I guess?
You truly need to be set free
Judas didnt goto hell, he reincarnated like everybody else. Jesus travelled to India for his spiritual training at the age of 12 and did not return to palestine until age 30. In India, among the swami order there, he was known as Issa Krishna, not Jesus Christ. The letter J had not been invented yet. Judas is probably currently "paying off the karmic debt" that accrues when one betrays another. But one must remember that he supported Jesus for a long time, and that counts for something too.
Thank you Tim for adding that bit of historical theory about Jesus's journey's before returning to Palestine. I also believe much of what Jesus has been recorded as actually saying seems more "eastern" than middle east. Just sayin.....
who said jesus forgeve judas please show me where in the bible it says jesus forgave him. the big diffference between peter and judas is PETER asked for gds forgiveness. and Judas KILLED himself. thats a sin he is recognized for also. suicide is suicide.
No body killed Jesus. The cross thingy was concocted by the priests to lure oridinary people into beleiving that cross will save them. So lame!
Arguably, Luke 23:34: "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." I believe that this could have been all encompassing, and that Jesus words could have been directed towards Judas since he definitely played a key role in the crucifixion.
Thanks, Ashley. That makes more sense than the alternative.
I suspect that it's (for some) human nature to want to condemn or place blame on someone.
Too bad hell and heaven are imaginary.
Amen brotha!
When I was 10 years old I had enough sense to ask my parents for the address or specific location of Heaven or Hell. The stupid look on their faces said it all.
After you read these scriptures, let me know your thoughts:
Isaiah 66:24; Mark 9:43-48; Matthew 3:12; 5:22; 13:40-42, 49-50; 18:8-9; 25:41; Luke 16: 19-31; John 15:6; Revelation 14:10; 19:20; 20:10, 14-15; 21:8.
Amen.
PROVE THAT!
tHAT "10 YEAR OLD GUY...SOUNDS LIKE HE DID'T HAVE PARENTS THAT RESEARCHED ANYTHING EITHER!!!
Well.. I am an atheist. But i will be respectful and add to the discussion. On the assumption that christianity is correct and the bible is the correct record, I feel that Judas was chosen by God to do what he did. I beleive he would have had a place in heaven for that. However, he committed suicide. So he would be in Hell according to the bible.
In hell because of the suicide because he did not repent first? Or was he going to be killed by others anyway? I don't believe in Heaven or Hell either so it is no big deal to me but I like details.
If he was controlled by a higher power then suicide is not his fault. That's akin to the idea of people with mental health disorders going to hell for suicide.
If a person is not in control of their mind/behavior and the resulting situation, then how can that individual be judged so harshly on their reaction?
That betrays the image of a forgiving and loving God.
@HappyyppaH...Yes God is Forgiving and Loving, but he is also Righteous and Justice. He must judge sin, or His perfect character will be impugned. Alot of people forget about that part of God when referring to His Love.
Fortunately, His love provided a way for you to be made righteous...Through the Death of Christ. God's justice towards man has been satisfied...All you have to do is believe. (Eph2.8) It's there for you to get. Either you want it, or you don't...That's all
Dear Christian: I can understand your faith in the Bible, the belief that it is EXACTLY what you have been taught it to be. I once truly believed. But then I saw the seams, the hanging threads, the contradictions, and got curious. The more I picked at the flaws, pulled at the threads, evaluated the contradictions, the more the truth of the Bible came into focus. The Bible is perhaps the greatest literary work ever produced. It deals with grand questions of the human condition, why we fail to live up to our own expectations of moral behavior, the questions of existence: What happens to our consciousness after we die? Is there justice for the evil and the good? Will there be mercy for the repentant? Do our dreams have meaning? Why do we love and mourn, hate and despise, feel guilt and remorse? Do we have responsibility for our own condition? Do we have responsibility for other people's condition? What a profound book. To me the most amazing aspect of the book is that it was written by HUMANS for HUMANS. I doubt there is a God, heaven, or hell. These are all fictional characters and places. It doesn't make the message less relevant, just less factual. For many, this will bring feelings of almost hatred towards me. I understand, I was once in your place. Perhaps someday you will understand: You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. John 8:32. I have learned the truth, and now I am free.
Love it! well said
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
BRAVO!!!
mk
Nice job, give the Bible its due but then ask the questions, put together facts, measure the timing of events etc.....why more people don't do this I cannot say it really only needs a bit of critical thinking to come to the same conclusion as you have.
I could not have said it better myself....
I applaud you.
That's fine...But one of God's traits is that he is immutable. Just b/c you turned your back on Him, doesn't mean He turned His back on you. Salvation is eternal. You don't lose it and regain it throughout your temporal life.
Let me make a statement in congregation of non believers. I believe in GOD and his son Jesus. Its obvious you didnt understand the bible and was pulling some other thread. Its like the blind men describing a tree while touching an elephant.
Consider that there is a big difference between free, and isolated.
@LiveFree
I don't hate you. I think you are wrong, but I don't hate you. I just believe that the free will you are exercising was given to you by the very God you have rejected.
How can you possibly look at creation and say there is no God. I look at myself I know for a fact that God deos exist.
I can quite easily accept that this beautiful and amazing universe we live in came about by chance: that's what makes it amazing to me. Just like you can see a baby suffer and die from AIDS, or whole cities die in a natural disaster and still believe in god.
Good post, LFODNH.
@Richard how do you know what any of god's traits are? because the bible told you so? how do you know that's true? because the bible also told you that everything in the bible is true?
@Mat you mean, we can't take the bible at face value? it has to be explained? what kind of inerrant word of god is that, that it could be misunderstood or interpreted in different ways? to say nothing of the flat-out contradictions, errors, and things that just plain did not happen.
@SLP we don't hate you either. We haven't "rejected" god, we have come to the conclusion that a god isn't there to affirm or reject.
@maggie do you have some evidence heretofore unpresented that proves god's involvement in creating the world? some 4 billion year old fossilized footprint? perhaps a signature in the DNA sequence? You might believe very strongly, but knowledge takes a little more than belief. It's a reasonable, true belief, and in order to prove the truth value of the claim of god, any god, you have to have evidence.
Christian dogma is like a maze with no entrance and no exit: a self contained puzzle with little purpose but to evade and confuse: I can't turn my back on something that doesn't exist. Confucius taught that the only reason we need to be moral is because we are human. When I see suffering, I know there is no eternal purpose to it; it's up to us to fix it, that's all. There is no god, so whether or not god allows, condones or could prevent suffering is a superfluous question.
You are really Contradicting right now, How can you quote scripture, yet deny there is a God, Heaven or Hell. So, I guess you believe in the Big Bang Theory, you just happened to show up out of no where, right? How about starting back in Genesis 1: , In the beginning, GOD.... I'll be praying for you as well, those are facts. The bible was written by humans through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit given from God...
@Terrance: Oh, you got me. you are right God exists because you believe it to be so: NOT. First of all, I didn't say there was no truth in the Bible, there may even be a lot of facts in the Bible, I just see the best interpretation of all of the problems with the Bible, is not that imperfect men corrupted god's word, but rather these are the imperfect words of imperfect men. Quoting John 8:32 is irony: the truth that sets me free, is that god does not exist. Ever read Joseph Heller?
@livefree
Actually if I believe that God exists, he does...for me, as well as for anyone else who believes in him.
What's always had me wondering is why it is soooo important for atheists to demand or expect that Christians must
1.prove there IS a God; prove anything to anyone
2.accept there is no god because YOU say so
3.realize Christians are wrong and thats that.
How much of a double standard is it for all of us if we Christians must do these things(and others) because you yourselves deny God and at every opportunity go on and on about how much more you know because you rejected God, but still accept some nice things in the bible for us to live by; a continuing double standard that Christians should just stop telling you all about what we believe and how we know you have a choice to come back to God, etc etc...but Christians must just accept atheists shoving it all in our faces and demanding a politically correct world in which to live in.
FYI: there are just some suffering we cannot and never will change in this world and just must be accepted. How you think we have the ability to end all suffering is too generalized and unacceptable. Yes babies die form AIDS, but God and Christians didnt cause AIDS to happen...humans did–all the suffering in this world...humans created.
This article has nothing to do with any atheists and how they think the bible is just a fairy book, or its all about mythology or how they've discovered there is no God. big whoop. move along and butt out of a debate you have nothing to add to because you dont believe in it anyway.
c ya.
wouldnt want to be ya.
Christianity is NOT a book, as you have made it out to be. No wonder you've found it to be so frail and disposable. When you reduce it to a text which you can interpret and reinterpret on your own, what good is that?
Christians didn't come from the Scriptures. The Scriptures came from the Christians.
@Deneen, actually, you may be surprised to find out I agree more with your first statement than you think. If your belief leads you to action, then whether or not god really exists, becomes but a philosophical question. It motivates you to action to live a Christian life. I question things like the Westboro Baptist Church, but most Christians find their actions outside the pale. I occasionally respond on Christian topics because I think everyone should be challenged to evaluate what they really believe. The people I have admired most were people that committed their lives to helping the poor and less fortunate. Catholic nuns in South East Asia come to mind. I argue with people that claim that god's existence is proven because of belief. I applaud anyone who accepts that their belief is faith, and those that accept that the existence of god cannot be proven or disproven.
Proverbs 6:16 These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him:
Proverbs 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Proverbs 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Proverbs 6:19 A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Amen.