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 A highway sign sits in a parking lot at Lambert-St. Louis International Airport
April 23rd, 2011
06:02 PM ET
Survivors grateful after tornado tears through Missouri churchBy Greg Botelho and Phil Gast, CNN (CNN) -"Tear down this temple, and I will rebuild it in three days," Jesus said. Following those words, pastor Stacy Garner pressed pause on "The Passion of the Christ," then told the dozens of people watching the movie at Ferguson Christian Church to head into the basement. A tornado, he feared, was on its way. Within two minutes, the twister arrived - part of what the National Weather Service called a "tornadic supercell" that swept through the greater St. Louis metropolitan area Friday evening. And it didn't spare the church in Ferguson, about 10 miles north of the city and three miles east of the St. Louis Lambert airport, which also got hit hard. Yet all those at the church that night survived. So, too, did a silver cross depicting Jesus' crucifixion, which was untouched in an otherwise ravaged auditorium, while a portable cross brought out specially for the Passion weekend - the time between Good Friday and Easter, which are among the most special times on the Christian calendar - laid on its side, intact. "There were so many ways the Lord has taken care of us," said church member Nancy Doggett. She was among roughly 35 people, which is about half the church's congregation, who were spending their Good Friday night in the auditorium watching Mel Gibson's 2004 film depicting the final days of Jesus. Nearby, a group of children saw another film. All the while, the weather became a growing concern. Minutes after one church member's wife sent a text about the powerful system rolling through, Garner's wife called him to report a tornado was heading toward Ferguson. Noticing a series of powerful lightning strikes, the pastor said he knew this wasn't a typical thunderstorm. So the pastor paused the movie just at the part when - according to the New Testament - Jesus told the high priests, who were trying him, that if they "tear down this temple ... I will rebuild it in three days." Some Christian scholars have interpreted this statement to mean Jesus was referring not to a religious building, but more as a vow that he would be resurrected three days after his death, on what is now Easter. Garner simply called the timing - in light of what happened next - a "very interesting coincidence." The pastor said he then told the audience they needed to seek shelter in the basement. "As soon as they got out, the electricity went out," said Garner. Soon thereafter, Doggett said she felt "this vacuum and then there was so much noise." She yelled out for everyone to get under the tables. The pastor recalled his ears popping and pulsating, the sound of wood boards ripping off above them, at least three or four loud bangs, then water streaming down the stairs the church members had just descended. It was all over in 10 seconds. Eventually, Garner, Doggett and others viewed what was left of the church. Besides the two crosses, the communion table hadn't moved and a few heavy beams remained in place. But everywhere else, there was destruction. "The roof is all over the neighborhood," Doggett said. The surrounding area was also devastated, with the pastor describing it as "pretty much a war zone." Asked whether Ferguson Christian could rebuild in three days, Garner said, "We wish we could." What happens physically for the church - founded in 1949 and at its present location for several decades - remains a question for another day, he said. Its members will have a place to celebrate Easter and beyond, though, after being offered space by the president of nearby St. Louis Christian College. Garner said he's still trying to figure out what he will say at that first service back. But however horrible Friday's disaster was for the community and the church structure itself, he said he's most grateful that everyone was able to walk away unscathed. "To have this kind of damage, we're just glad no one was hurt," he said. "Buildings can be replaced, but lives cannot."
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“See now that I myself am he! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand. For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes. The LORD sets prisoners free, the LORD gives sight to the blind, the LORD lifts up those who are bowed down, the LORD loves the righteous. The LORD watches over the alien and sustains the fatherless and the widow, but he frustrates the ways of the wicked. I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols”
Henry obviously an inaccurate statement.. and which god are we talking about here? The lord appears not to like amputees though.. but he mentions those with eye problems and back issues..he does accept bribes...every sunday money pours into his houses and helps to assure passage to heaven for those that give....
I wonder if any of the survivors realize that it was science and technology in the form of an early warning text and phone call that saved all their lives. Whereas God gave then no warning what so ever. The tornado would have ripped through the building killing them all if not for the warning text and phone call and the technology that enabled them. Thank God? No not really. Thank Technology and the people that warned them. It’s People and technology that save lives, God stands by idly doing nothing.
@Loki Mythos
The loony believers even have technology covered. Their spin is, that god gives/allows modern technology.
If you get sick, go to the doctor, take your medicine and pray to god. If you get well, thank god. LOL
The delusional will deny, lie and cry, to keep their god alive.
Cheers!
I'm sorry, but this is almost comical. A tornado runs through the Midwest and spawn more nut jobs claiming "miracles" than it does debris.
Yeah, right God is taking care of you "in so many ways" God`s To Do List: #1 Send tornado to church.
Thank God the crosses were saved instead of the human beings praising you. PS I`m 9 years old almost 10:)
@JaxHammerton
You said: "Yeah, right God is taking care of you "in so many ways" God`s To Do List: #1 Send tornado to church."
Yep, and #2 Let Billy's team win the trophy. #3 Make Betty's pimple go away, for the prom. #4 Get the spot out of Betty's mom's new dress.
Meanwhile, Every day, almost 16,000 children die from hunger-related causes. That's one child every five seconds.
What a friend we have in Jesus!
I have no complaint against those who believe as they choose. What I object to is their inability to acknowledge that others do not see things as they do and that those differences in belief do not consign them to "hell". I object to their constant yammering that the US "must return to Christ", when in fact it "must" do nothing of the sort. This is a secular and diverse nation and fundamentalist Christians don't get to force others to abide by their beliefs.
tom, tom, wish you had not used those words, 'a secular and diverse nation...' Diversity ruins a nation, community, company.
And 'secular' is what people are screaming about all the time saying America was founded on religious principals, that we should put god in everything, god is even on the money... All you needed to say was, fundamentalist christians would FORCE everyone to be like them IF they were in control.
That's your opinion. And you know what they say about those...
@Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
You said: "I object to their constant yammering that the US "must return to Christ", when in fact it "must" do nothing of the sort. This is a secular and diverse nation and fundamentalist Christians don't get to force others to abide by their beliefs."
Sing It Preacher!!! I love what you said, man! God Bless You!
Amen!
Cheers!
Jesus said in John 11: 25-26, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?” And in John 3: 18-21, “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.”
Deistic silliness...
Christians are truly strange birds. Their delusions are frightening.
Hahahahahahahaha, my last comments are 'awaiting moderation!' I said nothing out of place, but the thought police are moderating...
mod·er·a·tion
1. state of being moderate: the state or quality of being moderate
moderation in all things
2. action of making something moderate: the limiting, controlling, or restricting of something so that it becomes or remains moderate
3. job of moderator: the position or function of moderating something
Hahahahaha, so much for 'free speech....
( Damn, what word am I using that is tripping the census button? Hummm......?)
@baatman74
The moderators of this blog have set up a secret forbidden word filter (automatic) which unfortunately not only will delete or put your comment in the dreaded "waiting for moderation" category but also will do the same to words having fragments of these words.
For example, "t-it" is in the set but the filter will also pick up words like Hitt-ite, t-itle, beati-tude, practi-tioner and const-tution.
Then there words like "an-al" thereby flagging words like an-alysis and "c-um" flagging acc-umulate or doc-ument.
Ditto for s-ex, s-exual, ped-ophilia, You would think that the moderators would have corrected this by now considering the number of times this has been commented on but they have not.
More than one web address will also activate “waiting for moderation”. Make sure the web address does not have any forbidden word or fragment.
s-ex
c-um.........as in doc-ument, accu-mulate, etc.
sp-ic........as in disp-icable (look out Sylvester the cat!)
ho-mo...whether ho-mo sapiens or ho-mose-xual, etc.
t-it.........const-itution, att-itude, ent-ities, etc.
an-al......ban-al
sh-it
fu-ck...
who-re
tw-at.....as in wristw-atch, (an unexpected one)
pr-ick
sl-ut
c-lit
va-g....as in extrava-gant, va-gina, va-grant
hor-ny
ar-se....yet "ass" is not filtered!
nip-ple
po-rn
c-ock
nig-ger
cu-nt
b-itch
ra-pe
jacka-ss...but ass is fine lol
p-is.....as in pi-stol, lapi-s, pi-ssed, etc.
There are more, so do not assume that this is complete.
-–
okay words that you might not expect to be filtered....!!!
beaver
penis
ass
crap
damn
anal
anus
sphincter
testicles
testes
pubic
boob
–c-lit
va-gina
hor-ny
ar-se
nip-ple
po-rn
God, Please forgive these ignorant and insensitive people and I will pray for them.
Me..how can asking for evidence be ignorant and insensitive? and why cant your god for all of his supposed supernatural powers be asked to explain him self.. why are you so scared of him/her/it? how can this offend him if he/she/it be so powerful. You have been taught not to question because there are no answers and fear is a great way of keeping the status quo.
I love how quickly Fundamentalist Christians are to condemn a nation plagued by natural disasters and suggest that mass devastation is God's punishment for their evils, and yet when a Tornado tears apart towns and churches in the Bible belt, it's a sign of 'divine providence' and a call for "God's desire for them to build a new church." Unreal levels of hypocrisy. Maybe natural disasters just happen.
@Alixes
You said: "when a Tornado tears apart towns and churches in the Bible belt, it's a sign of 'divine providence' and a call for "God's desire for them to build a new church." Unreal levels of hypocrisy. Maybe natural disasters just happen.
No, the tornado destroying the church was an act of love by their god. Much as a drunk beats his wife, even though he loves her.
Cheers!
And yet Westboro Baptist remains standing and priests continue to abuse children in their beautiful churches. Either this particular church was full of the most vile humans to have ever existed or bad things just happen and no amount of praying to an all-powerful, all-controlling, invisible wizard in the clouds can change that.
Hi Alex!! The answer to your dilemma is FREE WILL!
Ah, of course. "I give thee free will... now do exactly as I command or I'll torture you for all eternity. Love always, God"
Exactly! Free will to obey and love AND free will not to. My Son died so you don't have to! Love eternally, God!
P.S. I love you enough to allow YOU to make the choice!
Wait, I don't have to die because Jesus died? I guess I missed that part. And if Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? Why are we born sinners who need to spend our lives apologizing to our creator for being created and thanking him when he punishes us? Believing in this garbage is the most masochistic example of Stockholm syndrome the world has ever seen.
Alex you don't have to believe it but i do. Wanna know why? Yep..FREE WILL! Why is there still sin? We make the choice, in other words...FREE WILL!
Even if our free will gives us the choice to sin or not, Jesus died for our sins. Right? So we all go to heaven regardless of our actions as long as we believe, or at least pretend to believe, in Jesus. Seems pretty shallow to me. And free will means that god does not control our lives and does have the ability or desire to cause or prevent natural disasters. So why worship him?
Alex
Even if our free will gives us the choice to sin or not, Jesus died for our sins. Right? So we all go to heaven regardless of our actions as long as we believe, or at least pretend to believe, in Jesus. Seems pretty shallow to me. And free will means that god does not control our lives and does have the ability or desire to cause or prevent natural disasters. So why worship him?
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1. Jesus did die for your sins
2. The gift of salvation is based upon what God through Jesus Christ has already done! Rewards in Heaven are based n what we do
3. The key is believe with a sincere heart and not pretending
4. the more you know him, the more you will want to be like Him (less sinning)!
5. We worship Him because he is God
6. We were never promise a pain free, trouble free life. We as Christians endure tragedy just like everyone else.
7. The promise was that he would never leave us or turn His back on us!
8. NOTHING shallow about that!
Alex, ever notice how you never get a question answered? Well, except for that 'free will' thing which is total nonsense. I totally agree with your arguments, but I fear you waste good time. You can't argue against something you can't see, prove, find one ounce of evidence it exists. Every occurance in history rails against a god, or this so-called jesus, I agree with you, why on earth keep praising something that keeps on bashing you to death, causing untold suffering, destrction, misery, hate, death? You would do better joining a like kind organization such as American Atheist Club. They make way more sense. At least they are objective and logical, not ranting jaw flaps.
"The gift of salvation is based upon what God through Jesus Christ has already done! Rewards in Heaven are based n what we do"
So we all go to heaven, just some people have more "gifts" when they get there? Like 40 virgins?
"the more you know him, the more you will want to be like Him (less sinning)!"
That must explain why there are so few Christians in prison and so many antheists (I'll let you look up the statistics)
"We worship Him because he is God"
And we know this because the Bible says so. And the Bible is true because god says so.
"We were never promise a pain free, trouble free life. We as Christians endure tragedy just like everyone else."
Then why thank god when things go right?
"The promise was that he would never leave us or turn His back on us"
Then why is there a hell?
"NOTHING shallow about that"
Read the 10 commandements and tell me your god isn't shallow
So we all go to heaven, just some people have more "gifts" when they get there? Like 40 virgins?
-------–
More gifts? Yes.. 40 virgins? No sorry wrong religion!
That must explain why there are so few Christians in prison and so many antheists (I'll let you look up the statistics)
-------–
Even Christians are not perfect! I have never been to prison! Except to visit! No need to look up the stats! BTW I said LESS sinning! Interestingly a Christian in prison is still a Christian as is headed for Heaven.!
We worship Him because he is God"
And we know this because the Bible says so. And the Bible is true because god says so.
------–
I have no problem with that. It is about FAITH
"We were never promise a pain free, trouble free life. We as Christians endure tragedy just like everyone else."
Then why thank god when things go right?
---------
Because he is Good, just, and righteous!
"The promise was that he would never leave us or turn His back on us"
Then why is there a hell?
--------
The original intent of hell was for the Devil and the fallen angels, those that rebelled against him. But now since mankind has joined the ranks of rebellion.....! As I stated earlier Jesus died so you don't have to die spiritually! or you can rebel and reject him!
"NOTHING shallow about that"
Read the 10 commandements and tell me your god isn't shallow
--------
My God is not shallow! The ten commandment tells us 2 things:
1. How to treat our God (the creator)
2. How to treat our fellow man.
how is that shallow?
baatman74
Alex, ever notice how you never get a question answered? Well, except for that 'free will' thing which is total nonsense.
------–
What question was not answered?
@Steve (the who cares?)
You said: "The answer to your dilemma is FREE WILL!"
Evangelicals say, "Free will is given to man, by God". Each person can choose to accept god's love and spend eternity in Heaven or to reject god and spend eternity being tortured in Hell. How is that freedom of choice when it is the same thing as The Godfather, making you an offer you cannot refuse? You do not have a choice when a gun is at your head.
The problem with free will is, that Christians have insisted on their god being Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnibenevolent.
No god can be all three at the same time. They attributes contradict each other.
If god knows what He will do in the future and because He is Omnipotent, does something else, then He is not omniscient.
If god knows what He will do in the future and cannot do something else, then He is not omnipotent.
If God knows the future, that means that the future is predictable and unchangeable. This, in turn, means that our actions are predetermined. If god is all knowing, free will is an illusion.
This also binds god, in that He knows what he will do in the future, and He must do it.
Let's look at Jesus and his predictions that Judas would betray him and Peter would deny him:
Those were future events. Do you think Judas could have used his free will to opt out? Not, if Jesus/God was omniscient. Same goes for Peter.
The actions of Peter and Judas were predetermined. They had no choice.
When Moses was attempting to secure the release of the Jews, from Egypt, God repeatedly "hardens Pharaoh's heart". God did not allow Pharaoh to release the Jews, until He had delivered His 10 plagues upon the Egyptian people. Pharaoh didn't have free will.
Biblical prophecy would not be possible, unless events and human actions were predetermined and there is no free will.
What about the child who is murdered by a monster, or a people slaughtered by a stronger opponent (or a god)?
Did they choose to be harmed? Where was their free will? These acts show that the strong or the people in power have greater free will than their victims. Hmmm...
If god has a "plan for each of us", if there is an agenda, then that pretty much rules out free will.
Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
"You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]
Ephesians 1:11 "We have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will."
"this man [Christ Jesus] delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God" (Acts 2:23a NASB).
The 6 point Calvinists believe our fates are sealed, even before we are born. This would mean that god allows humans to be born, knowing they will someday burn forever. Seems wrong to me, even for a mysterious god.
There is no evidence that a god gives or safeguards free will.
Cheers!
David Johnson
@Steve (the who cares?)
You said: "The answer to your dilemma is FREE WILL!"
The who cares? Apparently you do as you keep calling me out! The primary issue David is you attempt to disprove God by your limited natural mind. Before you reply with something like "you do too", you might want to consider that Jesus revealed God to us and the Bible reveals His will and thoughts, perhaps not in the fullness but we can know Him!
@Steve (the real one)
You said: "The primary issue David is you attempt to disprove God by your limited natural mind. Before you reply with something like "you do too", you might want to consider that Jesus revealed God to us and the Bible reveals His will and thoughts, perhaps not in the fullness but we can know Him!"
The only proof for Jesus' revealing god to you, is based on your faith and belief. They are worthless. The bible does a poor job of revealing any god's will. There are ~38,000 different Christian denominations. Each, believes they understand the will of god, through reading the bible. Why is that? Why couldn't a perfect god have given believers a bible that was not ambiguous?
You love to preach to people. I show where your preaching is wrong, silly and ultimately worthless.
Address my arguments. There is no free will, if you believe in the Christian god and His attributes.
Cheers!
@Steve(the real one),
What a jip. I was told it was goona be 72 virgins. Oh crap.
Mere mortals attempting to grasp the mind and ways of a supernatural being... it's always entertaining. God haters are gonna hate.
Hard to hate something that is imagninary.
Do you believe God is omnipotent?
What I believe is irrelevant to what is actually true and irrelevant to what God actually is.
I just love all the god haters that hang around the religion section....very interesting....
Hi kirk..we do not hate god,.. we just ask for evidence of your as-sertions. so far no one has had any. Where would I go to get that evidence ..an automotive blog?
evolveddna you can get the evidence from science. Electromagnetic coupling constant, gravitational coupling constant, proton to electron mass ratio, decay rate of the proton. Delve into these topics, and you will be astonished at what you find.
And these things are "proof of God"? In what possible way?
EvolvedDNA, you want proof? Say a sincere prayer and ask Jesus to come in to your life. Wait with a faithful heart for an hour or a day. You will get your proof... the answer won't be subtle, it will be obvious. For myself, I first wondered, then believed, now I know that God exists and is not as far away as you think He is.
@EvolvedDNA: You ask for evidence. Well, let me ask you. Have you ever seen evidence that supports evolution? Don't quote a textbook. I'm asking whether you have personally seen irrefutable evidence (not a stupid rock obviously) that would substantiate your believe in evolution? Or have your blindly believed the claims that scientists and others have made over the years? How come you do not question them and ask for the same evidence to be placed in front of you so that you might believe? Why the double standards when it comes to God. You believe in the American history, you believe in world history, yet you do not want to believe historians who talk about Jesus? How come? What made them an exception?
Good luck. You need to wake up.
@Joe
Jesus speaking:
John 14:14 – If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Mathew 17:20 – He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."
Let's be honest. Don't be afraid. Jesus said the above, about prayer. Is it true? Can you post back to me and claim what Jesus said is true?
Why has there never been a doc_umented case of an amputated limb being restored? Do you think an amputee never prayed or had faith?
Why aren't Jesus's words true? Can you think of any possibilities?
A fundie once told me, that god always answers prayers in one of three ways:
1) God says, "yes". You get what you asked for immediately.
2) God says, "to wait". You will get what you asked for at some future date.
3) God says, "no". You will not get what you asked for.
Hmmm.... But I can get the same success from the carton of milk I have sitting on the breakfast table.
1) If I pray to my magic carton, some things will come true immediately, just by chance and coincidence.
2) Some things will come true at some future date, for the same reasons.
3) If I don't get what I want, then my magic carton said, "no".
I think there is a problem, when there is no difference between praying to a god and praying to a milk carton.
Joe,
"Say a sincere prayer and ask Jesus to come in to your life."
If you ask Jesus to come to you, you already believe. Anything after that is something that you cause in/with your own mind, sometimes even with accompanying physical symptoms.
supremeamerican....how does that prove god? Science has uncovered many interesting facts.. like the iron in your blood was forged in the heart of long dead suns eons ago,.the atoms in your body are as old as the universe...but it does not prove anything except they are natural processes.
rgeneration.. I have read many books on evolution, and observed nature, and based on the evidence supplied I have come to the conclusion that evolution makes more sense than having a "god" make us. Evolution for the most part moves to slowly for you to observe directly, but microbes such as the superbugs that infest our hospitals are evolving quickly as they overcome the antibiotics that are used. Science has to constantly re -engineer the poison to counter their evolution. DNA evidence is used in a court of law these days, so evidence for evolution and our connection to the other species is very accurate science.
I have asked for evidence of god, any of them, and you have none. If god made us who made god? what evidence would you have for the answer? Science presents evidence and it up to you to accept it or not, but non acceptance does not mean it is incorrect. Let me ask you if you have ever questioned the noahs ark story.. I mean, if every species alive to day was not on the boat, where did they come from? how many species of penguin say did he have on board? how do you know this?
.
@RGeneration
You asked: "Have you ever seen evidence that supports evolution? Don't quote a textbook. I'm asking whether you have personally seen irrefutable evidence (not a stupid rock obviously) that would substantiate your believe in evolution? "
Yes! All I need do is look at my own body:
I have nip_ples! Why? If god made man, why did he create him with non-functioning nip_ples? (All mammals have these)
When I'm cold, I get goose bumps. Doesn't do anything for me now, but at some point in human evolution, our hair was thick. The goose bumps are the body's attempt to raise the hairs to keep me warm.
I can sort of wiggle my left ear. This is because of muscles that are worthless now, but helped our ancestors.
And I have a tailbone. This is left over from a time, when humans actually had tails. Lots of babies are born today, with a fully functional tail. How come god did that? LOL
Many other species also have obvious useless, vestigial organs. Your argument is crap.
If god created all the organisms on the planet, during the creation week, why are there transitional fossils? Did god have to create prototypes until he got it right?
Want me to tell you how fundies answered this? They say Satan planted those fossils, long ago to trick man. Or, some say god planted the fossils to test our faith. LOL
Evolution, with its evidence of transitional fossils, geological column, DNA evidence, vestigial organs etc., destroys the biblical Creation Story and with it, the whole New Testament myth.
You said: "You believe in the American history, you believe in world history, yet you do not want to believe historians who talk about Jesus? How come? What made them an exception?"
There is lots of evidence for American and World history. There is no evidence, outside of the New Testament, that Jesus ever actually existed. No eyewitness accounts. No secular writings about Jesus, that are not hearsay, or later insertions.
Cheers!
If god destroyed the church, are they not going against the will of god bt rebuilding?
It was certainly God's will.
Rebuild the Church ;
http://www.cabaltimes.com/2010/02/12/the-case-of-the-church-made-of-muslim-bones/
"To have this kind of damage, we're just glad no one was hurt," he said. "Buildings can be replaced, but lives cannot."
Yes they can...
Only idiots thank god after their church gets hit by a tornado.
Do they realize that if their god is all powerful, he did that?
Sir you just made my point! See below:
Steve (the real one)
The countdown to ridiculous remarks by those blaming a God they don't even believe in for this, begins now!
April 23, 2011 at 6:09 pm
Steve(the real one)
Well, now, aren't you just a real prophet among us?! Duh!
Smite Me
Steve(the real one)
Well, now, aren't you just a real prophet among us?! Duh!
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Nothing prophetic about it. More like counting cards, you know the queen of hearts will come up sooner or later!
one down..
Your ignorance is only surpassed by your stupidity....but then you knew that. Enjoy your crappy life.....oh and happy Easter!
Duh, Winning. I was banging a 7 gram rock in the basement with Mel Gibson when the roof just blew off!
Let's see how long it takes him to "rebuild the temple"
The Episcopal Church nearby is fine. Just sayin:) We're not watching an Angry Mel Gibson movie in the basement either. But in all seriousness, we pray that the Lord will finally now forgive Nancy Doggett and the other people at the Ferguson Christian Church.
Otherwise, Nancy Doggett is toast
The countdown to ridiculous remarks by those blaming a God they don't even believe in for this, begins now!
Random events are random, nothing more, nothing less.
well, let's see; according to some VERY influential religious leader 9.11 was God's punishment for the way America was turning its back to him. Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment for the sinful behavior of the people in New Orleans. Weren't those not ridiculous remarks the same. You need to be consistent right. Of course this is just a coincidence. As stated by the previous poster; random events are random events.
okkebas
well, let's see; according to some VERY influential religious leader 9.11 was God's punishment for the way America was turning its back to him. Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment for the sinful behavior of the people in New Orleans. Weren't those not ridiculous remarks the same. You need to be consistent right. Of course this is just a coincidence. As stated by the previous poster; random events are random events
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Understood yet, nobody below has blamed a God that they do not believe in? That was my point!
Understood yet, nobody below has blamed a God that they do not believe in? That was my point
-------------------------
it's called IRONY.
I don't "blame God" for anything, Stevie, but if you're going to credit him for sparing someone or something, which believers often do, why do you not credit him with destruction as well?
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
I don't "blame God" for anything, Stevie, but if you're going to credit him for sparing someone or something, which believers often do, why do you not credit him with destruction as well?
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Tom, Tom! long time no hear! I hope all is well. As to answer your question, We credit the evil one Satan, Lucifer, the Devil with evil! And sometimes things just happen! I will tell you that God does no evil and is righteous and just and you will quote an Old Testament scripture (and out of context) to attempt to prove otherwise! How did I do?
okkebas,
It's called IRONY.
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Thanks for the clarification! I thought its was M.O.!
Oh, really? So you don't believe that when someone escapes death in a tornado, it was because God did it?
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
Oh, really? So you don't believe that when someone escapes death in a tornado, it was because God did it
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Tom, Tom! You KNOW I am a Christian! God is good and just! I do believe that. yet at the same time, every time, I stub my toe it is not because of the devil! Sometimes things happen!
You haven't answered the question. Why is that?
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
You haven't answered the question. Why is that?
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I answered the question! I said God is good and just (I did leave out merciful, by accident). There is a method to your madness! What are you getting at?
Steve (the real one)
Tom, Tom! long time no hear! I hope all is well. As to answer your question, We credit the evil one Satan, Lucifer, the Devil with evil! And sometimes things just happen! I will tell you that God does no evil and is righteous and just and you will quote an Old Testament scripture (and out of context) to attempt to prove otherwise! How did I do?
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Talk about quoting Old Testament scripture (and out of context). Many Christians like to quote the Old Testament whenever it suits them; from justifying the dead penalty to claiming being gay to be an abomination.
okkebas
Talk about quoting Old Testament scripture (and out of context). Many Christians like to quote the Old Testament whenever it suits them; from justifying the dead penalty to claiming being gay to be an abomination.
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Please fire your Pastor and Sunday School teacher. All of what you said is in the NEW Testament!
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHjPVrEnR1g&w=640&h=390]
Pfft. The liberal atheists in here claiming christians opress them should be utterly ashamed of themselves. They have no education or common sense about this world they live in, or they would not say such foolish and incorrect things. THey are like spoiled children. They don't know the first thing about oppression or intolerance. See the video above.
No, you didn't, and all your exclamation points won't make a bit of difference. Do you give thanks to God when he spares you or your loved ones from something? If you credit him with such and believe in an omnipotent being, then you must also hold him responsible when disaster strikes you. Otherwise, he is not omnipotent.
And Adelina, your mask is slipping. The "spoiled children" bit was a dead giveaway. What a laugh.
Please fire your Pastor and Sunday School teacher. All of what you said is in the NEW Testament!
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really, please elaborate on that. I'm not a bible scholar but I know the Old Testament says eye for an eye, which is the justification Christians always use to support death penalty. It's Leviticus that's always quoted to "prove" being gay is a sin. Besides, if you want to do that be consistent, don't eat shell fish, tell women not to wear men's clothes, promote slavery,.... That's what I mean when I say that Christians are very picky what and when to use quotes from the Old Testament.
Nice one Steve....my sentiments exactly as I was scrolling to the comments section.
It just amazing how people suggest that there is no evidence even when eye witnesses and historians through a very significant time period spanning 1000 years have written a consistent message about God. Their defense is "I haven't seen the evidence and is therefore not valid". Let God show Himself, basically. However, when it comes to evolution or any other theistic view they don't seem to want the same level of objectivity. Meaning, most or even all of those who believe in evolution theory have never seen the evidence first hand, yet they believe what they have been told blindly without ever questioning the veracity of the claims.
That kind of double standard just surprises me. And then comes those who could care less about anything – who think that if they just ignore everything nothing will happen to them. Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?
Good luck world. Oh and a tidbit before I leave. Jesus is coming and He is real. "i'll take my chances" is probably the worst investment decision you would have ever made in your life.
okkebas
really, please elaborate on that. I'm not a bible scholar but I know the Old Testament says eye for an eye, which is the justification Christians always use to support death penalty. It's Leviticus that's always quoted to "prove" being gay is a sin. Besides, if you want to do that be consistent, don't eat shell fish, tell women not to wear men's clothes, promote slavery,.... That's what I mean when I say that Christians are very picky what and when to use quotes from the Old Testament.
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The law was not given to Christians. Romans 10 states Christ Jesus was the end of the law. There is nothing in the NT (where the church was established) that prohibits the eating of shell fish, wearing mixed garments or anything else. If you really want I can provide the actual scriptures. Romans chapter 1 addresses the G-a-y lifestyle too!
RGeneration
Nice one Steve....my sentiments exactly as I was scrolling to the comments section.
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Thanks RGeneration!
A comment I posted months ago:
A tornado races through a trailer park, destroying everything in its path.
One man and his trailer are untouched. It is a miracle!
No it isn't. It's random chance. Rewind everything and send the tornado back through the park.
This time the fellow and his trailer will be toast. Someone else may well survive.
Miracles consist of coincidence and random chance. No god required.
Cheers!
It's God's fault!!!
Oh by the way, I'm atheist. haha
@RGeneration
What evidence are you talking about? Eye witnesses and historians? I find it strange that you mention "spanning a period of 1000 years". It's 2011 after Christ; how about the other 1011 years since the birth of Christ?
You believe whatever it says in the bible and adjust the facts accordingly. Remember when the earth was still flat and the sun revolved around the earth and everybody who said different should be persecuted. When facts caught up your interpretation of what was said in the bible just changed, not the conclusion. Scientist have been persecuted for centuries for one reason; not blindly following what religious leaders are telling them. Discovered fossils have been found dating millions of years old. Instead of re-evaluating if your claim that the earth is about 6000 year old is correct you just attack the discovery and validity of carbon dating without giving any evidence for that. You probably sit in church every week blindly absorbing whatever your priests tells; your priest a human being and therefore infallible by definition.
Of course, you think evolution theory is a hoax although many things have been predicted using evolution theory (you know fossils being found all over the world that already were predicted using evolution theory), because it conflicts with the bible. Can you give me some sound arguments why it's a hoax. Long time ago you came up with creationism, now you give it a new look and name it "intelligent design". What is the science behind "intelligent design" besides claiming that nature is too complex and there must be a higher order that is responsible for all of this.
The difference with science and religion is that science derives the conclusion from experimental data and; when new data is found the theory will be re-evaluated. With religion it's the opposite. The conclusion is set and will never change, whenever new data is discovered, it will either be distorted or made fit to the conclusion.
Note, when I say "you" I mean majority of religious people as a group; just saying
@Steve (the real one)
You said: " I will tell you that God does no evil and is righteous and just and you will quote an Old Testament scripture (and out of context) to attempt to prove otherwise! How did I do?"
I almost missed this utterance of stupidity. Forgive me.
If god does no evil and is righteous, tell me about these activities:
It is said: "By your fruit you will be known."
Let's look at your god's "fruit".
God directly or at His insistence, murdered men, women and children including babies. This isn't evil? Is this moral?
God killed every living thing on the face of the earth other than Noah and his family, because man was wicked. Afterwards, He decides He won't kill everything again, because man's heart is evil from his youth. This isn't evil? Is this moral? Is this consistent, from an all knowing god?
God had a man believe he was going to sacrifice his son to Him. Do you know how traumatic that would be for a father and his son?
If you had the power would you do this? Would you be so insecure? This isn't evil? Is this moral?
There was a man who loved God. God made a bet with Satan that even if the man were tortured, his Possessions taken, and his children killed, he would still love God and never curse Him. God won the bet.
Would you do that? Would you kill a man's children for a bet? This isn't evil? Is this moral?
God sent a bear to kill a group of children, because they had teased one of His prophets.
Did the children deserve to die, because they teased a bald man? This isn't evil? Is this moral?
God allowed a man to sacrifice his daughter to Him, for giving the man a victory in battle. Human sacrifice! This isn't evil? Is this moral?
God created a place He can send people to be burned for all eternity. Could a god who is not evil do this?
If a puppy wet on the floor, would you hold it over a burner? Even for a second?
I call Jesus, Himself as a witness!
Jesus had this to say:
Matthew 7:17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
Luke 6:43 "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.
1. A god who is not evil, can't do evil things!
This is established, by Jesus's testimony.
2. The Christian god is guilty of horrid crimes against humans
Evidenced by the atrocities recorded in the bible
3. Therefore, god is evil. He bears bad fruit.
Read the examples of god's behavior again. Tell me in what reality or under what circ_umstances, these actions would not be evil? Spin 'em baby! Spin 'em!
Cheers!