April 23rd, 2011
06:02 PM ET
Survivors grateful after tornado tears through Missouri church
By Greg Botelho and Phil Gast, CNN
(CNN) -"Tear down this temple, and I will rebuild it in three days," Jesus said.
Following those words, pastor Stacy Garner pressed pause on "The Passion of the Christ," then told the dozens of people watching the movie at Ferguson Christian Church to head into the basement. A tornado, he feared, was on its way.
Within two minutes, the twister arrived - part of what the National Weather Service called a "tornadic supercell" that swept through the greater St. Louis metropolitan area Friday evening. And it didn't spare the church in Ferguson, about 10 miles north of the city and three miles east of the St. Louis Lambert airport, which also got hit hard.
Yet all those at the church that night survived. So, too, did a silver cross depicting Jesus' crucifixion, which was untouched in an otherwise ravaged auditorium, while a portable cross brought out specially for the Passion weekend - the time between Good Friday and Easter, which are among the most special times on the Christian calendar - laid on its side, intact.
"There were so many ways the Lord has taken care of us," said church member Nancy Doggett.
She was among roughly 35 people, which is about half the church's congregation, who were spending their Good Friday night in the auditorium watching Mel Gibson's 2004 film depicting the final days of Jesus. Nearby, a group of children saw another film.
All the while, the weather became a growing concern. Minutes after one church member's wife sent a text about the powerful system rolling through, Garner's wife called him to report a tornado was heading toward Ferguson. Noticing a series of powerful lightning strikes, the pastor said he knew this wasn't a typical thunderstorm.
So the pastor paused the movie just at the part when - according to the New Testament - Jesus told the high priests, who were trying him, that if they "tear down this temple ... I will rebuild it in three days."
Some Christian scholars have interpreted this statement to mean Jesus was referring not to a religious building, but more as a vow that he would be resurrected three days after his death, on what is now Easter. Garner simply called the timing - in light of what happened next - a "very interesting coincidence."
The pastor said he then told the audience they needed to seek shelter in the basement.
"As soon as they got out, the electricity went out," said Garner.
Soon thereafter, Doggett said she felt "this vacuum and then there was so much noise." She yelled out for everyone to get under the tables.
The pastor recalled his ears popping and pulsating, the sound of wood boards ripping off above them, at least three or four loud bangs, then water streaming down the stairs the church members had just descended.
It was all over in 10 seconds.
Eventually, Garner, Doggett and others viewed what was left of the church. Besides the two crosses, the communion table hadn't moved and a few heavy beams remained in place. But everywhere else, there was destruction.
"The roof is all over the neighborhood," Doggett said.
The surrounding area was also devastated, with the pastor describing it as "pretty much a war zone."
Asked whether Ferguson Christian could rebuild in three days, Garner said, "We wish we could." What happens physically for the church - founded in 1949 and at its present location for several decades - remains a question for another day, he said.
Its members will have a place to celebrate Easter and beyond, though, after being offered space by the president of nearby St. Louis Christian College.
Garner said he's still trying to figure out what he will say at that first service back. But however horrible Friday's disaster was for the community and the church structure itself, he said he's most grateful that everyone was able to walk away unscathed.
"To have this kind of damage, we're just glad no one was hurt," he said. "Buildings can be replaced, but lives cannot."
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.
"Behold! Allah Promised you one of the two (enemy) parties, that it should be yours: Ye wished that the one unarmed should be yours, but Allah Willed to justify the Truth according to His Words and to cut off the roots of the Unbelievers; ”
—Qur'an: Al-Anfal 8:7
Enjoyed watching the Christian festival of race passing the Fire Torch from one to another.
The same is used in the openings of the Olympic games where finnaly they are to light over the bigger fire torch.this was a practice followed from the times of the Greeks.
What do we learn out of this practice ? Isn't is just as A message of true light that is to be raced passing it from one generation to the second generation in order a day will come for the truth to prevail in a bigger light of wisdom and peace.!? We are all searching for the light of truth the whole truth nothing but the truth ! We are not seeking to brain wash selves to believe what we want to believe deillusioning or selves with what we chose to want to believe.!?
We been given in the Whole heavenly scriptures including Quran stories that when are read or recited they are supposed to inspire us from it's wisdom of the old, reading those stories is like feeding our senses for knowing which becomes to be known as man's common senses.
The message that has been passed and exchanged among generations was that (God is One & Only No Mate, No Son ,No Partner and that Iblis (Satan) is the Etenal enemy of Mankind and that he has taken an ought to make stray mankind ending them into the eternal Hell fires !?
The Paths of Mankind :
The Rules been Given and laid out as to what the punishments or the rewards would be for each of our deeds,but then after all only the Mercy of God that would admit us into heavens and paradise and not only our efforts, after all, all that counts is what is in our hearts and our intentions,belief or disbelief !?
Some are lazy or as hard as Rocks or Locks and just want to bury their heads into the sand or plugging their ears and covering their eyes as from the Thunders and the Lightenings of the The Truth that One day has to prevail,whether we have wanted or tried to put the light of truth off or block it from sight or bury it alive !!!
The truth will come back to prevail with matter how ever may God wanted it to be ! By the Pen or by the Sword or by what ever God has willed it to be...it is only then upon confrontation where and when faith is tested and judged,then it is for God to decide whom to give victory over the other the unjust ones. Our Holy Book told us that over Seven Thousands Angels on top of horses were landed as an Army to join the battle fight against the transgressors, in taking side of Muslim believers who were far less in numbers and less equipped if compared to the other-side who were far more in numbers, in equipments and in supplies .!
It was that battle fight who decided the existance of Islam against the will of the polytheists and the Pagans of Mecca.
Those nights of the battle fight was named as "The Battle of Bader".
Therefore we can say winning the War is Not by The Large Well Trained Number of Armies or Number of Equipments or Higher the Technologies an Army had but it is rather more about how much faith you have in course and cause ! ?
It is more like who God will take side with? (Faith and Will) have to go togather to bring back the Good wellbeing for Mankind such as Justice,Love and Mercy as such will only bring around Peace and prosperty !?
As Good brings back around Good, then Evil only brings back around Evil, (what ever Seed we Plant We will harvest it's fruits ) so if the seed we plant is of Good seed,we will hearvest Fruits of Goodness but if of Evil seeds that has been planted then will only harvest Fruits of Evil !? The Holy Book told us that a word of kindness is like a Tree of a Good Seed that we plant and that we will hearvest ...while a bad hurting word is like a Tree of a bad seed.
Atheists.agnostics.disbelievers,pagans what ever or whom ever you are suggest to leave faith,belief or religious disputes behind and just read the Bibles and the Quran as referance for history and for wisdoms that through reading helps us to think for our selves and decide for our selves with out being told what to believe or not to believe. Have we asked our selves how mankind learnt and reached what ever level he is in now today? If it wasn't for the knowledge that was gathered and passed on from Adam's times then generation after generation to revive,remind,warn the stray against the wish and will of those condemned ones who rejected,killed and exiled the Messengers and Prophets of God, then towards each crime they have made they packed it in a different shiny papers just as of the sweet candies to explain why or for what they did it for !?
Peace2all/my regards !
Why has the truth be killed?;
You people have not explained to me why would God need to have a Son when we all creatures are of his own and from his own Spirit ?
Why would God have a Son of his created among us when all the time we been sent human messengers ?
Why when among us comes a man asking us to the light of truth,proving him self to be different from date of birth, and when he showed us love,cured our sick,even brought back to life our dead ones,who was able to tell us what we stored and what is in stored for us.why do we condemn him to death as a transgressor ?
Why did we take the privilege of sacrificing him as an offering or were we repeating the crime of the Sons of Adam when Cain killed his brother in jealousy about some sacrifice offerings that were made and was accepted by God for Cain's brother but not to Cain him self ? Then he learnt after killing his brother how to hide the crime unfounded out by burying of the corpus as the Crow bird had showed him !
Strange isn't it that Satan has always mislead our fathers and us in jealousy ?
First as disguised as a Serpent as told by elder bibles, he mislead our fathers into eating the forbidden fruit and succeeded into getting them out of heavens into earth and he with them ?
Always where there was evil there was Satan behind it. He talked the Son of Adam Cain into killing his brother and into hiding his Crime !
Then Satan inspires and reveals to man evil verses that are not of God's words into the aim of putting the Light of God's Truth out of light !
When here comes to us a Righteous Prophet full of Miracles, but instead of appreciating same and thanking God for, we rather drove him into crucifixion?
The Sabbath people of the children of Israel who betrayed,ploted,conspired against him were of a closed religious society that is not accepting converts. The believers and followers of the Prophet were begining to claim his blood, when here Satan came again to teach them as to how to hide their crime, so they gave excuses and verses that made the crucifixion as legal ???
Any way the establishment of a second religion was necessary and as well keeping it astray off track was necessary as well as that it was intended to relieve them from the burden of opening up their Religion faith for new converts to join up in theirs ???
The Crime myth of being crucified beside other things became a religion formula to cool the mass of angry prophet followers and to drive the masses to convert into it.
Then the Romans learned the trick and became to make use of this further to control and drive their complex masses of many faiths into one integrated mass where they turned the Sun God Day into Son God Day ! Meaning gathered pagans,idolaters and joined them with the right mass into one big mass of a faith that contain all in one....
Until the day when the One Cell had broken into small divisions,where each thinks he is the righteous more than any other, so here it is it went multiplying to unend to becoming to suit each culture and race ???
Finally God has chosen a messenger from the race of the children of Ismael to bring back his words of light to the children of Israel by a member of the family tree, and that was because when ever God chosen a prophet from among them children of Israel they had always disbelieved and killed their Prophets and messengers one after another even the Prophet Moses was not spared the agony and the failures that they drove him into due their disbelief in him and in what he has brought up to them to follow ?
Now the same story is being repeated against the Seal of Prophets of God and the Words of the Message of God which was this Prophet only miracle that God has sent him with if compared with the line of Prophets and messengers that came before him.. ! The Light and the Power of Words were totally Rejected by the children of Israel because it came to them by the children of Ismael since they had rejected Ismael before that considering him a slave a son of a slave woman "Hager" !!
Turned to be in the size of the jealousy that Satan had for Adam or the jealousy that the son of Adam Cain had towards his brother for which he killed him or like how jealous those of the Sabbath were from Jesus by rejecting what he has came up with to ease their hardness that they had applied on them selves of which God had not told of.
Jesus was attacked as the Seal Prophet was attacked by the pagan and the jews of Mecca for bringing that does not agree with the culture and customs they wanted to live with such as freeing slaves, forbidding the drinking of spirits and all that was mentioned and known about the people Mucca doing before any signs of Islam !
History is being repeated,mankind does not want to learn from stories of nations of old in order not fall again and again with out hold his steps for moments to think for his self as 'why' when ever some one brings by the truth has to be killed ???
Peace to all,
From reading some of the various posts i may have reached a few conclusions but not sure of therefore might just write and ask few questions now to see if they were correct or not :
For Atheists might ask any of them to give me an honest answer although am sure the answer will vary from one to another ?
Q1) Do you atheist believe even if slightly that there is a superpower of a creator but deny existence because of Religions, Doctrines and their Complexities as on a state of rejection ?
Q2) Do you feel as being special as Atheists in not believing in God and that what ever you do good or bad will neither be rewarded or punished for it by any Divine because you do not believe in Divine nor resurrection or judgment day but rather you think we are here by a mere coincidence and not been created to serve a purpose in life ?
Q3) To those considering Jesus being the Son of God: Do you feel as being more special as if you were as sons of God and that what ever you do good or bad you will not be held accountable for but rather will go streight to the heavens, paradise directly with out any judgment or any punishment ?
Q4) To those considering Jesus God being in Trinity : Do you feel as being more special as if Gods on earth and that what ever you do good or bad you will not be held accountable for but rather will go to straight to the heavens, paradise directly with out any judgment or any punishment ?
Q5) Do all Christians think that in this life, God has not created us for Testing us as to who will do as told,warned and who will not ?
Q6) You do all Christians believe in this life, God has created us for Testing but think you are exempted from it and ever your deeds were ?
Q7) Do you consider any none Christians "Religious or not Religious",as Slaves of God and not as Godly as you are ?
Q8) Do you as Christians accept any other Race converts as equal as you are in your Earthly life and at the After life what ever their Race is or Christian Doctrine ?
Q9) Do you as Christians and Atheists wish at times if you had a sperate state for each to live in,where each of you can do as they please as in their favorite way of living,where each can impose his own laws and beliefs,and would that mean accepting to live among the mass Races of that belief or rather would favor a state or county for each mass of Race within the same belief ?
Sorry for being hard asking sensitive questions but that is the only way to find out more of what is going on,and what really man wants.
Beside I feel that the same descriptions might be required to be asked or be questioned to Muslims of Different Doctrines,Races and Cultures, who might have among them that who are similar to your nations,such as those who are Atheists,Agnostics or even Satanic but there still will be those who are considered as religious believers "Moderate or Extremes".. ! Surely you will find like those in every Nations,Faiths and Beliefs.
Hope have been clear that these were intended as to help us realize our inner "Thoughts and Wants" beside the real understanding of each other, and was not meant or intended for hurt or for dispute.... Peace to All.
Back to the topic. Furguson Christian Church, be grateful that a tornado ripped through your church. God is testing you. Be strong. Pray for more catastrophes to happen for it will strengthen your faith. Hallelujah! God is love!
Also, see Professor Gerd Ludemann's conclusions in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 49. Matt 15: 8 = Mark 7: 5-8.
Jeremiah 17: 5, This is what the LORD says: “Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD."
Reality, The Lord says: “These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men. Therefore once more I will astound these people with wonder upon wonder; the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish. Woe to those who go to great depths to hide their plans from the LORD, who do their work in darkness and think, “Who sees us? Who will know?” You turn things upside down, as if the potter were thought to be like the clay! Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, “He did not make me”? Can the pot say of the potter, “He knows nothing”? Isaiah 29:13-16
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 1 Corinthians 1:18-21
Matt 15: 8 fails rigorous historical testing. See http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php?t-itle=056_Lips_without_Hearts
Christian movies, images and icons are for only remembrance, but many of those are misused since humanity has staunch tendency for idolatory and abuse. Remembrance is good for true worshippers of God(Jesus).
Have you watched the Islamic movie about the Prophet and how it was filmed? Then only you will understand how remembrance are made with out any that could be considered blaspheme... The name of movie was "The Message".
The Message (1977)
177 min – Adventure | Biography | Drama – 8 July 1977 (France)
Users: (7,783 votes) 85 reviews | Critics: 8 reviews
Handsomely-mounted historical epic concerns the birth of the Islamic faith and the story of the prophet Mohammed - who... See full synopsis »
Director: Moustapha Akkad
Writers: H.A.L. Craig, Tewfik El-Hakim, and 3 more credits »
Stars: Anthony Quinn, Irene Papas and Michael Ansara
I guess God was unhappy about Mel Gibson's movie.
You could be right after all we do not allow any one take a role of a Prophet of God in our made films because we think of them to be too holy for any human to take their role, and that's why we feel disturbed when a cartoonist makes an image and call it in the name of a Prophet...!
@Muneef: "Disturbed"? Yes, death threats are disturbing.
I do not care what anyone believes as long as that belief is benign. When someone thinks they have the right to harm another person because of their beliefs, they will need to prove their beliefs are based in evidencial reality. If they cannot, then they are a threat to humanity and should be dealt with accordingly.
I will say it one more time. You never have the right to kill someone, or threaten them because they offended your beliefs.
Secular Western human rights = Rights to blaspheme
First welcome back and hope in one piece.
Strange it is really but not I agree to it but really surprised how one person is allowed to insult millions with what they hate and have shown their hatred towards it but rather than respecting that and not try it, there come others to do it bringing fear,hatred and insult to a nation ? That slow killing poison is allowed but when one thinks he should end this end of disrespect with sacrificing one to be an example, you find then only the whole world turn against you?
Isn't that strange?
They come to you with war planes dropping loads of bombs and come down shooting all down old and small, it is ok and fine but if one of those unarmed desperately decided to blow him self up taking few of who he though were his enemies then only the whole world turn against in condemnation...?!
Majority,Power,Wealth against those who lack it...! Sorry to see that our Prophet and follower Muslims were not as sheep nor would they turn their other cheek...but rather had to fight their way out in survival and for maintaining the Light of Truth sent to them by God through his seal Prophet...
Sorry Eric G...but you wanted the truth and it is whether we like it or not there will always one among the lot who will not turn a blind eye and deaf ears...any desperate one among them will bargain wicked earthly life for a peaceful heavenly life for standing up defending God,Prophets,Holy Book...those who will defend some by the words of pens while others will use different means in full faith and belief in what they do and in faith of what their lord has promised them in return....so no joke in that at all...
You are totally right it is as you called it;
Secular Western human rights = Rights to blaspheme....
Which is taken as addressed to God,Prophet,Holy Book and Followers... And West expect the MidEast the source of this beliefs will keep quite with out reactions?? Those are real live people and not just Zombies not alive and not dead..believe and respect nothing...!
Oh Doggett, you tool. Absolutely no sense of how absurd it is to praise some imaginary puffdaddy in the clouds for wreaking havoc?
Muneef this if for you then....
Nothing new same stories disputed about the Quran and the Prophet, I believe you are not even favoring the the Bible calling it evil ? Any way thanks for your gift...
Damn I'm glad I'm a Muslim.....!
Muneef, don't swear if you are truly Muslim. Today's average everyday English words usage in the West is a toxic garbage if not outright blasphemous. Get educated, please.
You are right I am not sure what that word "Damn" means but just hurried after who said it first..
Gotta love this web site....http://www.evilbible.com/
Damn I'm glad I'm an atheist.....
Hey there all you Atheists ...
Happy Sunday ... nothing special about today.... Nothing to be happy about .... nothing awesome happened Day!!!!!
Hope you enjoy your mundane lives!
See above, O ye complicit in murder and the perpetuation of ignorance.
You said: "Hey there all you Atheists ...
Happy Sunday ... nothing special about today.... Nothing to be happy about .... nothing awesome happened Day!!!!!
Hope you enjoy your mundane lives!"
Hmm... Did you know?
The ancient Saxons celebrated the return of spring with an uproarious festival commemorating their goddess of offspring and of springtime, Eastre. When the second-century Christian missionaries encountered the tribes of the north with their pagan celebrations, they do what Christian missionaries have always done; they attempted to convert them to Christianity. They did so, however, in a clandestine manner.
It would have been dangerous for the very early Christian converts to celebrate their holy days with observances that did not coincide with celebrations that already existed. To save lives, the missionaries decided to spread their dogma slowly throughout the populations by allowing them to continue to celebrate pagan feasts, but to do so in a Christian manner.
As it happened, the pagan festival of Eastre occurred at the same time of year as the Christian observance of the Resurrection of Christ. It made sense, therefore, to alter the festival itself, to make it a Christian observance as pagans were slowly indoctrinated. The early name, Eastre, was eventually changed to its modern spelling, Easter.
So, you are actually celebrating a pagan holiday.
There is no evidence that an actual Jesus ever actually existed.
So celebrate away! It is Spring!
Actually, there's a pretty awesome hockey game on today.
Atheists are vain. Poor things...
@Adelina: Hello, I hope you are enjoying your weekend!
I'm sorry, but as an atheist, your claim of my vanity has me perplexed.
Can you please explain why you consider me vain?
Thank you for your help!
Eric, what else do you have other than watching the weather and ball games? Your friends just proved your vanity here.
@Adelina: I'm sorry, how can a post from someone else prove my vanity?
On a side note, I missed the ballgame today. I volunteer at the Autistic Youth Center on Sundays and they were really short handed today because it is Easter, so I just got home a little while ago.
Eric, good for you. But what you did is average and cannot erase your sin. Many Christians serve needey people all day long Sunday and almost everyday. You need Jesus for the salvation of your soul.
Your kindness in volunteering is appreciated. I'm sure that you are well-grounded enough not to let Adelina's venom affect you.
You are a vicious old crone. Anyone even slightly similar to your Jesus would decry you.
@Adelina: No, it is not good for me. It is good for the kids. You should try it sometime because they can use the help.
You still have not explained how I am vain.
I love American Christians because they are meaningful, beautiful, compassionate, and intelligent. The best species.
American atheists are pretty cool too. I think it is the water...
We are kind and sweet as well although might be not all since that exist among all nations;
(The Good,The Bad,The Ugly) but should we blame all parties for one party's mishaps ?
Another saying we say is; "In every house there is a Toilet" meaning in every family house there is a bad or dirty family member...
A simple statemnt ... a simple thought .... an expression of an opinion ... and there they come ... the people that were left out wanting to be included in such a wonderful statement..... You are not included..... each and every peros is allowed their opinion ... not just those that agree with you David and Muneef ....
"A Christian" likes it... but what an arrogant, narcissistic, hateful, and historically false claim. Only brainwashed morons would accept, much less cheer it. This "We're Number One" boast from two of the same people who burned innocent young girls as witches in Salem USA after slaughtering millions of jews in Germany and tens of millions of arabs and indigenous peoples in the Crusades and "Era of Discovery"
@David, but atheists are not good. Not at all. @Muneef, you don't have salvation. I'm too realistic to trust my own merit. A house without toilet would be the dirtiest of all in present world system. Use more wisdom by reading the Bible as a good Muslim should. @T-Squid, without American Christians, millions of widows would have burnt alive. The witch casuality is a tiny fraction comparing to the millions of Bible-literate Christians that were killed by the same people. Jews were slaughtered by Darwinians and Arabs were fighting against each other already. Learn history correctly and wholly, you ignorant atheist.
American Christian missionaries rescued the whole world... God bless USA for Christians there!
Am not sure of what you mean stating we Muslims have no salvation ? Our salvation is the path of our Prophet who will be there awaiting us to join him on the resurrection date and It would be him who will give us a drink of water that after which we will not face any thirst and then he will grant us intercession but in the end it is for God to accept or not...and that applies to all prophets that day.
And if people had been killed it would have been a part of "God's plan".
Yeah. "Goddidit" is always the answer to everything.
Even when people do evil things.
"God" made you that way, therefore you have no sin and Jesus was actually a Jewish fakir whose "mystical" psycho-babble fooled enough ignorant people (how hard is that, really?) that the new cult flourished, always splitting, until Paul of Tarsus gave it a bigger boost and a definite "scriptural" direction by fabricating and modifying cult docu-ments until he was the new leader and the first fake "Pope".
It was just a tornado. Happens every year.
If no one was killed maybe that was a good thing or maybe it was evil and went against "God's wishes" – maybe there were people who were supposed to die and did not.
Perhaps it was Evil that the tornado did not do "God's will"!
See? It can go the other way, too. Fake stuff.
Religion is nonsense.
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.” Jesus Christ
With respect to John 8: 24:
From Professor Gerd Ludemann's book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 416, "Anyone in search of the historical Jesus will not find him in the Gospel of John......This verdict is the consensus among New Testament scholars."
With respect to the specific passage, Professor Ludemann noted: "The historical value is nil." p. 487.
God gave man free will to do what we please. Evil things happen because people choose to be evil or do evil things.
I can tell you non-believers never read Matthew 24:3-22.
Matthew 11:27-29, “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.”
Matt 11:27 = Luke 10 :22
"As per Professor Gerd Ludemann, this verse is inauthentic.
Lüdemann [Jesus, 330f] invokes the classic description from K. Hase of this passage as a "thunderbolt from the Johannine heavens." He notes the typically Johannine reference to mutual knowledge between Father and Son, and the absolute use of "Son" as a designation for Jesus. In dismissing the saying's authenticity, Luedemann also notes the similarity to ideas in the post-Easter commissioning scene at Matt 28:18, "All authority has been given to me ..."
What madness is god.
As per Father Edward Schillebeeckx, the famous contemporay theologian:
"Christians must give up a perverse, unhealthy and inhuman doctrine of predestination without in so doing making God the great scapegoat of history" .
"Nothing is determined in advance: in nature there is chance and determinism; in the world of human
activity there is possibility of free choices.
Therefore the historical future is not known even to God; otherwise we and our history would be merely a puppet show in which God holds the strings.
For God, too, history is an adventure, an open history for and of men and women."
(Note: assuming there is a god)