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 Don Lemon with his grandmother on his third birthday.
May 22nd, 2011
01:00 AM ET
My Faith: How I learned to stop 'praying away the gay'Editor's Note: Don Lemon is a CNN anchor and author of Transparent, a memoir . By Don Lemon, CNN "School day, time to get up, sleepy head. School day." Although she's been gone since 1998, my grandmother's words ring in my head just about every morning of my life. That's how MaMe, as I called her, got me out of bed and off to my Catholic school when I was growing up and in her care. But before I shuffled my way to the bathroom to begin my morning routine, I had to hit the floor on my knees to pray, just as I had the night before. It was usually The Lord's Prayer ("Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name...") followed by asking God to watch and guide me through my day until I returned to the safety of my home that evening. But MaMe (pronounced MAH-me) didn't know that at a very early age her favorite grandson had begun to pray, silently, that God would change him from being different, from having crushes on boys, from being more curious about boys than girls. By age four or five, I was too young to sexualize my infatuations but I knew that everyone else, including my family and friends, would think it was wrong. Perhaps it was the conversations I overheard from adults around my hometown of Port Allen, Louisiana, who'd mimic gay people, calling them "funny" or "sissy" or "fagots." Perhaps it was Sunday mornings at our Baptist church, where preachers taught that liking someone of the same sex was a direct and swift path to hell. And that if that person would just turn to the Lord and confess his sin, then God would change him back into the person He wanted him to be - a person who only had crushes on the opposite sex. All of which meant that, from a very early age, I began to think I was dirty and that I was going to hell. Can you imagine what that feels like for a kid who was just learning to read and perform basic arithmetic? It was awful. And talk about guilt - I was a Baptist attending Catholic school! I prayed the silent prayer for God to change me every chance I got until I started attending college in New York. That's when common sense began to take hold and I realized that no amount of prayer would change me into something that wasn't natural to me. With my religious upbringing, I'd had the opportunity to study religious doctrine. But I learned from different perspectives, from Catholic Mass on Fridays to Baptist services on Sundays to vacation Bible school in the summer to Bible study with a Jehovah's Witness as a teenager. As I got older I began to realize that all these people and institutions interpreted the Bible somewhat differently. I had a sort of epiphany: the Bible was about the lessons you learned, not about the events or words. When I became old enough, intelligent enough and logical enough to discern the difference between metaphor and reality, everything changed. I realized that Jonah living in the belly of a whale was a parable written in the same vein as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. saying that he had "been to the mountaintop." Neither Jonah nor King had actually been to those places. They were metaphors for lessons for those of us who cared to absorb them. So many of us, especially in the black community and in churches, tend to think that religious teachings happened word for word as they were written in Scripture. I think that's naïve, even dangerous. That type of thinking - or non-thinking - keeps many religious people enslaved to beliefs that they haven't truly stepped back from and examined. That type of thinking causes people who are otherwise good to shun and ostracize young gay people. It causes people to want to control and change people who aren't like them. And who wants to be like someone else? Imagine if we had allowed Christian doctrines and teachings that supported slavery, segregation and the subjugation of women to pervade our society all the way up until the current moment. What kind of world would that be? Instead, we got on our knees, just as I did as a little boy, and prayed that slavery, segregation and the subjugation of women would end. In the United States, at least, those prayers have largely been realized. I'm no longer the member of any church but I do believe in a higher power. It's time for us, especially black people, to stop trying to pray the gay away and to get on our knees and start praying that the discrimination of gay people ends. What we're doing to our young gay people now is child abuse. It's plain old bigotry and hatred. And if African-Americans don't know what that feels like in America, I don't know who does. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Don Lemon. soundoff (4,733 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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@The Oracle
You said:
"Your question is just a circular reference question that has no answer created by a simplistic human mind to try and 'outsmart' their creater. It's essentially asking what will give way first, An unstoppable force or an immoveable object or can you make perfectly round sphere even more round? The question has no answer because we simply cannot comprehend what we're asking."
in response to my argument:
"Do you believe God holds absolute power in every sector of everything?
If yes, Do you believe God can do anything (e.g. make the impossible possible, vice versa)
If yes, then can God create a being that is even more powerful than he is?
If yes, then God does not posses all power since this new being posses more power than He.
If no, then even God cannot do ALL things..
If you believe God would not put himself in that situation, then you are simply avoiding the question. The question is not whether or not he would do the action, its whether or not he could if he wanted to."
Its funny that you say that because I feel the same way! The problem is however that this circular reference question is created by christian theologists; specifically, the argument naturally arises by the statements that declare the existence of absolute powers in the first place.
You see, what logicians do when declarations of statements contradict each other, then either one or both statements are automatically invalid!
Therefore, according to COMMON SENSE or better yet, logic; the answer to the question is that either one or both statements MUST be false. You claim that its because we cannot comprehend it, and frankly I agree, we cannot file that argument away as a logical one. The problem is though, that I am not making any claims of absolute powers. Rather it is christian theologists, and well ultimately you, whom are the ones declaring that an unstoppable and immovable force can and does exist. and therefore Christians, and again ultimately you. ignore the fact that those two forces cannot logically co-exist.
As a result, you justify the irrationality of your statements by declaring that it is beyond human understanding.
I should correct myself.
"You see, what logicians do when declarations of presumed absolutely true statements contradict each other, then either one or both statements are automatically invalid! And therefore either one or both statements cannot be absolutely true!"
If you really understood "gay".I do understand Gay.Its against God almighty.Enough said.Why argue? their minds and souls are reprobate with that unclean thing inside of them,that spirit .They are truly the unclean thing.The thing is,is that this thing is truly a prize invention of wickedness by Satan to proliferate among humans to damn them to hell.its truly sad.Ans it also makes them believe they can escape judgement on it! wicked!
Brian – your translation of the Bible is faulty. The word "paederassti" is never found anywhere in the New Testament. As such, the Bible is actually silent on the issue of being gay.
@dorothy wrong!! "unnatural lust" Strange flesh and s.e.x.ual imm.orality all have to do with gay. read jude 1:7 then read romans 1:27-32 then 1 corinth, then 1 timothy...then read matthew a man and woman shall make one flesh "being natural"
@Brian
"A wise man's heart is at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left."
– Ecclesiastes 10:2
"The right hand of the lord doeth valiantly, the right hand of the lord is exalted."
– Psalm 118 vv15,16
Those of us who know and follow the true word of Christ will be laughing from up in heaven while the left handed sinners fry forever.
Satan is the cause of left-handedness! You southpaws that think you can escape God's wrath because your sinful dominant side is "natural" are in for a surprise come judgement day!
"1 corinth"
This has nothing to do with being gay. It was mistranslated and if you look at the original text it was about prost-i-tu-tion.
You know what Mr.absolute thinker? You have thought yourself into a foolish position.There is absolutely no reason to be so ignorant!God creating a being more powerful than Himself! Plain unadulterated stupidity.You see He is not so stupid as you are ,to do so.
Just answer the questions and follow the flow chart. You know what they say though, ignorance is bliss, so beware. Maybe you shouldn't follow the flow chart.
For those who have faith in the Bible, I would have to say that I don't believe the Bible got it wrong........if you believe being gay is sinful, you simply have got the Bible wrong.
The Bible is clear in that a Holy God set a plan in motion to redeem a people to Himself. Throughout the writings we clearly see man constantly making up his or her own rules to justify behavior that is clearly offensive to a Holy God. When you believe sin is not sin and justify it you do not need God because you do not need redemption. Jesus made a way for all sinners to break the bondage of sin. So if there is no sin there is no need for Jesus.
Such lack of faith in this article. Who is man to say what did and didn't happen? Another thing, the bible never said anything about a whale, it says it was a FISH who swallowed Jonah. I don't mean to be condescending, but how can one believe that God spoke the world into existence, yet didn't have power to make other things happen? Instead of arguing and pointing fingers we all need to get back to studying the word of God in earnest for ourselves.
@Christians
1 Timothy 6:20 Timothy, guard what God has entrusted to you. Avoid godless, foolish discussions with those who oppose you with their so-called knowledge.
Please turn your Bible to Isaiah 1:18 my dear friend.
Here's a fact I wish everyone would remember: God did not write the Bible – men did. Men with limited education, their own personal beliefs, biases, opinions, fears, etc; men who believed the earth was flat and that the moon created its own light. And whether you admit it or not there were gay people then and gay people before the Bible was ever written. Open your mind just a little bit to the possibility of the evolving species that are human beings.
Well said and thank you.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. 2 Timothy 3:16.
" The only way in which fallible humans could have written so much inerrant text would have been for them to have been inspired by God." There are many facts stated in the bible re:astronomy, mammals, and insects, that science discovered years and years later. It can not be disproved, it is powerful- that is why it has lasted longer than any book, sold more than any book, and is the most referenced and hated by many. It is the word of God. And because He can not be killed, stopped, or hindered- nor can his word. Bless you.
Very power and very true. Morals are a product of the society we live in. Just as you indicated, slavery of black and descrimination against women was once accepted practices in our society. These injustices were morally right and socally accepted until common scense pervailed and changed our moral thinking and culture. The same movement needs to take place for the Gay and Lesbian community! Well spoken.
-S. Deion
Let us not confuse our moral view with Gods. Stop and look at the simple yet powerful word of God that set the foundation of morality. Simple so we can understand it. Start with the 10 commandments and note the first 4 relate to love of God and others over self. The remaining 6 relate to sin that occurs when you violate the first 4. Neither God nor the Bible degrades women or slaves. Jesus did not go about bashing gays and other sinners as he was Divine. Certainly we can never live up to his perfect example however, writing our moral code always results in pain and failure.
Do you believe God holds absolute power in every sector of everything?
If yes, Do you believe God can do anything (e.g. make the impossible possible, vice versa)
If yes, then can God create a being that is even more powerful than he is?
If yes, then God does not posses all power since this new being posses more power than He.
If no, then even God cannot do ALL things..
If you believe God would not put himself in that situation, then you are simply avoiding the question. The question is not whether or not he would do the action, its whether or not he could if he wanted to. a
What kind of a flake is this Tania? sadly I ask.Dali Lama? What foolishness are you really capable of?!
God summed up your riddle when asked who God was and he said ” I AM”. Complete perfection in Holliness with endless bounds. Your questions have an underlying assumption that is something more. There is nothing more outside the infinite and certainly our minds cannot even begin to understand the mind of God.
God summed up your riddle when asked who God was and he said ” I AM”. Complete perfection in Holliness with endless bounds. Your questions have an underlying assumption that is something more. There is nothing more outside the infinite and certainly our minds cannot even begin to understand the mind of God.
In other words since there is noting more outside of his complete perfection in holliness and infiniteness, he cannot make a being more powerful than he.
What kind of a flake is this Tania? sadly I ask.Dali Lama? What foolishness are you really capable of?!
Why is it foolish to ask compelling questions? My argument doesn't arise because of my ideas or personal beliefs. It is a direct result of christian theology and assumptions concerning absolutes. The argument naturally arises when such statements of absolutes are made!
God does NOT MAKE MISTAKES. Thus, when God makes a gay, He intended to. I am not gay, and am a bit ashamed of how freaked out I become around gays. However, I do not bash gays, because they are God's creations. Nuff said. God gave us ten Commandments (5 do's and 5 do nots), and the rest is just postulation from part time Christians who pick and choose which parts of the Bible they will obey that week. The post Jesus Christ God is about love, and foregiveness, not about wrath. Stop cherry picking the Bible you morons!
I am sorry, but you are very deceived about this "post Jesus Christ God' that you are speaking of. Yes, he does talk a lot about love, compassion, and forgiveness, but he also warned people about judegement. These scriptures will make clear:
Matthew 7:21-23 " 21 “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. 22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws."
Matthew 23:15 "“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell[a] you yourselves are!"
Matthew 10:28 "“Don’t be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
Matthew 7:13 " “You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way."
Matthew 5:22 "But I say, if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell."
Matthew 5:27 "“You have heard the commandment (a reference to the old testament by jesus) that says, ‘You must not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
-Adultry was one of the ten commandments, in the old testament, that Jesus is referring to. he does this to show that the law of god is still the standard, but through him the violaters of the law can receive grace. jesus also urges people to repentance in Luke 13 when the bible says, "About this time Jesus was informed that Pilate had murdered some people from Galilee as they were offering sacrifices at the Temple. 2 “Do you think those Galileans were worse sinners than all the other people from Galilee?” Jesus asked. “Is that why they suffered? 3 Not at all! And you will perish, too, unless you repent of your sins and turn to God. 4 And what about the eighteen people who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them? Were they the worst sinners in Jerusalem? 5 No, and I tell you again that unless you repent, you will perish, too.”
What I don't understand is why some ppl think it's OK to condemn or hate ppl who are "sinning". Believe being gay is wrong all you want, some ppl just like to argue, be the one shouting the loudest. I'm pretty sure that's wrong too.
Do you believe God created all beings?
If yes, Do you believe God knows all things?
If yes, Then you believe God created all beings and that he knows who will ultimately go to hell and who will not.
Do you believe God is perfectly just?
If yes, where is the justification in creating a being to merely send it back to hell?
Why does God waste time creating beings he knows will ultimately go to hell, why doesn't God just create beings he knows will go to heaven and therefore avoid all the torture, death, and sin of those individuals. Where is the mercy for those individuals? Did they ask to be brought up out of the dust? No. They did not, yet they were, despite God knowing they would only endure hardship and be sent to hell anyways.
God created all things, yes, and knows all things also. That doesn't mean he is controlling who goes to hell or heaven. Does he know who will? Yes. Will he force someone to go to hell or heaven, No. He created us in his image, thus, free will is given to us all, to follow him and his son, Jesus Christ, who died and rose for our sins.
The justification for creating a new being is that they will have the chance to learn of God's infinite love and mercy but they have to open their eyes and heart to accept it. You ask why God doesn't create perfect beings to prevent sin, torture and death and again, it's about people's free will. He gave us the permission to live our lives the way we want and look where it's gotten us: endless war, poverty, world hunger, moral depravity, I could go on. The bottom line, did you ask to be here? No. But now that God has given you a chance at this life, are you going to stop here at this life or take up the cross, follow Jesus and continue on to eternal life before God? It's all about God's gift to us, we just have to take it.
Do you believe God holds absolute power in every sector of everything?
If yes, Do you believe God can do anything (e.g. make the impossible possible, vice versa)
If yes, then can God create a being that is even more powerful than he is?
If yes, then God does not posses all power since this new being posses more power than He.
If no, then even God cannot do ALL things..
If you believe God would not put himself in that situation, then you are simply avoiding the question. The question is not whether or not he would do the action, its whether or not he could if he wanted to.
God created all things, yes, and knows all things also. That doesn't mean he is controlling who goes to hell or heaven. Does he know who will? Yes. Will he force someone to go to hell or heaven, No. He created us in his image, thus, free will is given to us all, to follow him and his son, Jesus Christ, who died and rose for our sins.
The justification for creating a new being is that they will have the chance to learn of God's infinite love and mercy but they have to open their eyes and heart to accept it. You ask why God doesn't create perfect beings to prevent sin, torture and death and again, it's about people's free will. He gave us the permission to live our lives the way we want and look where it's gotten us: endless war, poverty, world hunger, moral depravity, I could go on. The bottom line, did you ask to be here? No. But now that God has given you a chance at this life, are you going to stop here at this life or take up the cross, follow Jesus and continue on to eternal life before God? It's all about God's gift to us, we just have to take it.
How can you say God is not controlling what goes into heaven and hell? Is he not the judge that ultimately judges peoples behavior, therefore deciding who is able to enter the gates of heaven? Think about what your saying my friend. Is God not the judge of all things that will bring forth judgement on the day of his return?
If you think he is not the judge, then:
How then can God be merciful if he creates people KNOWING that the consequences of his creations future actions would horrid, and send his creations to hell?
You say its because God is giving the evil people a chance to recognize their mistakes and accept God. But how can it be called a 'chance' if God ultimately knows who has absolutely NO CHANCE at getting into heaven before he creates them. Try to think about it from Gods perspective. It may seem like to us that we have a 'chance' at getting into heaven, but thats simply because we don't know the future. God knows whether or not I, or you will get into heaven. He knows if your 'chance' will ultimately prevail or fail. He knows whos 'chances' will fail, and whose wont. Therefore, he knowingly creates beings he knows are ultimately destined for failure, and we haven't got a clue about it.
The TheOracle8191 has got it right.
Rather than just saying being a cheerleader, prove with REASONING that my argument is false.
Your question is just a circular reference question that has no answer created by a simplistic human mind to try and 'outsmart' their creater. It's essentially asking what will give way first, An unstoppable force or an immoveable object or can you make perfectly round sphere even more round? The question has no answer because we simply cannot comprehend what we're asking.
Yes, God is the ultimate judge, but he is judging the things you've done, he is judging your works and how they reflect upon you. If he condemns you to hell, it is because you sinned, you offended God and ultimately, you did not repent and take hold of the gift of life that Jesus gave to us by shedding his innocent blood on the cross. 2 Corinthians 5:17 says "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come". We have the choice but remember, the Bible says wages of sin is death. We are told very plainly what consequences our actions bring yet we still do them and for that we will be judged. A good parent has to punish their disobediant child to set them straight, no matter how much it hurts the parent.
@TheOracle8191
your comment is ignoring the fact that god is omniscient , this is what makes the bible contradictory, There is no reason for warning signs or what will happen if you do this or do that, God already knows what your actions, choices, ideas, etc. will be before you do, you have no choice you don't have free will, your path is set and already predetermined. God knows you will sin before you do, that's why he is omniscient, He knows everything that ever was, ever been, or ever will be. Yet we are created anyway by a God that already knows were are going to suffer, Get it? God knows already before we ever existed if we are to be condemned yet still creates us anyway. your logic is seriously flawed
@info and your comment is ignoring Free Will
"@info and your comment is ignoring Free Will"
LOL! Then your God doesn't know everything" LOL! Or does he? LOL!
Yes he knows your choice, but you make that choice.
"Yes he knows your choice, but you make that choice."
That's not free will.
Your question is just a circular reference question that has no answer created by a simplistic human mind to try and 'outsmart' their creater. It's essentially asking what will give way first, An unstoppable force or an immoveable object or can you make perfectly round sphere even more round? The question has no answer because we simply cannot comprehend what we're asking.
Its funny that you say that because I feel the same way! The problem is however that this circular reference question is created by christian theologists; specifically, the argument naturally arises by the statements that declare the existence of absolute powers in the first place.
You see, what logicians do when declarations of statements contradict each other, then either one or both statements are automatically invalid!
Therefore, according to COMMON SENSE or better yet, logic; the answer to the question is that either one or both statements MUST be false. You claim that its because we cannot comprehend it, and frankly I agree, we cannot file that argument away as a logical one. The problem is though, that I am not making any claims of absolute powers. Rather it is christian theologists, and well ultimately you, whom are the ones declaring that an unstoppable and immovable force can and does exist.
*** adding to my statement***
and therefore ignore the face that those two forces cannot logically co-exist.
As a result, you justify the irrationality of your statements by declaring that it is beyond human understanding.
I know you all think you understand that there is no definitive proof that the Bible is true. Let me clarify some things for you all who think Noah and Jonah are just metaphorical stories:
The Bible is extremely accurate about historical places. We have archaelogically proven that the places mentioned therein are actual places. It also makes no bones about admitting the faults of the patriarchs. Abraham lies, Sarah laughs at God and Moses commits murder. Moses is the one credited with writing the first five books, by the way. So, he admits murder because God tells him to write it that way. Doesn't sound like something I'd want to do.
Metaphors: Jonah said he was in the belly of Hell. That was a metaphor. The big fish (or whale) that swallowed him was real. By the way, the Bible calls it both a big fish and a whale but in different passages. My guess was that it was a whale and back in the days of Jonah, they didn't distinguish between the two.
Who am I and why am I writing this? I am a person, not affiliated with any church, that has been harrased by those that call themselves Christians but live a lie. So, why do I proclaim the Bible as true? Simple... It is true. It's not just true metaphorically.
I also believe that if one is truly seeking the LORD, he will be found and delivered. I believe that this person needs to learn to let go of his desires. It is a hard thing to do. I have an addiction myself and struggle with it daily. Three words: DON'T GIVE UP! (4 if you count the contraction as two) I do believe that Hell is a real place and that if the Bible tells you that you are going there, it is for one reason only... to save your soul, you ETERNAL soul. Find a group of Christians that will love and support you in your struggles. Let them help you out of your ungodly desires. God is real. His Word is real. You are in a struggle and the LORD can deliver you out of your sinful desires.
Proverbs 3:5,6
Very wise words .
Amen, you hit the nail on the head with your post, God bless you 🙂
Hey Tim M how can you believe an all loving merciful God would not answer the prayers of a little boy who prayed with all his heart to be straight ? What was the child not praying hard enough? He prayed and strugglr til he was an adult 9the man came to the reality that he was born gay) Many gay people express the same story that mr. Lemon just shared some stopped believing in God becasuse they thought that they weren't wothy of God's love. Remember the Bible said judge not lest ye be judged.
You also spoke about the Bible being accurate if it's so accurate you would belive the earth is the center of the universe. The bottom line is that so many of you Christians relish in thought that you will someday be in Heaven high looking down and enjoy watching people burn and wither in hellish torcher That is a perverted thought you guys need to pray out of your sinful minds.
@ Rob
I ask you to visit http://www.victorious.org/unprayer.htm for some answers to your post. I pray that it will bring you closer to God and will ease your pain and soften your heart.
To TheOracle8191
The man said he was 4 or 5 years old when he was praying to be straight what do you mean by saying It is not something you are born with, it is a decision that is made, a behavior that is allowed to grow he was begging the Great Creator to help this desire not to grow how loving and merciful can an all loving God be no to help this frighted innocent child? Do you not believe this child was EVER innocent? Was't he worthy of being helped?
Archeological accuracy means only that people who lived in in the ancient middle east wrote stories. Of course they knew where things were. A city that could very well be Troy was found using clues in the Illiad. Does this mean that Achilles was real? Mt. Olympus exists. Do gods really live there? The author of Harry Potter uses London landmarks in her stories, as well as fantastic ones. Does this mean that Hogwarts is real?
Archeology doesn't prove miracles, it doesn't prove the existence of any higher power. It just means that the authors were aware of their surroundings. You are making a giant leap of logic. I'm not trying to bring you down or make you doubt your belief in god, although I don't share it. I am simply opposed to people using a book to try to harm others. Ga-ys and les-bians are born that way. It's not a choice, and condemning them because of a book of bronze age morals is simply wrong.
I know you all think you understand that there is no definitive proof that the Bible is true. Let me clarify some things for you all who think Noah and Jonah are just metaphorical stories:
The Bible is extremely accurate about historical places. We have archaelogically proven that the places mentioned therein are actual places. It also makes no bones about admitting the faults of the patriarchs. Abraham lies, Sarah laughs at God and Moses commits murder. Moses is the one credited with writing the first five books, by the way. So, he admits murder because God tells him to write it that way. Doesn't sound like something I'd want to do.
All you did was support the notion that the bible is historically accurate as far as GEOGRAPHICAL locations go. You failed to support the bibles is historical accuracy as to the EVENTS such as noah/jonah. Where is the evidence that demonstrates that these stories ACTUALLY happened?
Gays need to pray for the straight people that speak against us!!! Check out my video on it
http://youtu.be/nnY_M8oLeWc
I would like to get in touch with the guy telling this story.. I would love to hear more. I am not gay and happily married but I am interested to hear your take on how God sees Gay people. I have friends who are gay and I love them dearly. I have a friend who is now a pastor and also came from a baptist church and she fights with this continually. I dont know how to see this.
A gay man/woman loving another gay man/woman is the same thing as every other sin you can commit. It is not something you are born with, it is a decision that is made, a behavior that is allowed to grow. You cannot control the color of your skin but you can control your desires.
While it is true that we are not supposed to judge others, we are to help them see and overcome their sins by leading them to Christ. By that, a few passages down from where the Bible says not to judge others, it says, "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." Again, we are not to judge but to help others confess their sins by leading them to Christ.
This born with gayness thinking is realy foolish...it is the same as saying..I can go cheat on my wife because God made me that way..because I am male, because i have thoughts of women, so on..I wonder how many woman out there would accept "God made me this way, and therefore you and the church after to accept my infidelity" geez people figure it out.. gayness is lust of the flesh...You are loving yourself and what you want more that your creator...Being Christian means Loving God more than your desires. not forcing God to accept your behavior.. God is just and will judge your lack of Love for him, by refusing to put down this evil sin!
crucified you don't know what you are talking about. Scientists today agree that s-exual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors. In most people, s-exual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's s-exuality.
Gays are born this way and it's nothing to do with what you are trying to preach. God made them gay, they are part of his creation and it wasn't till recently that we finally understood it.
@ Steven, Not true... if that were the case you would have no ability to resist an act the mind generated... if I think of murdering someone..then I would be unable to resist and then act.. the logic you are using "is called Making Excuses"
crucified that was a statement from a panel of 154,000 people that have shown that being gay is not a choice.. You are so lost it's actually funny!
@steven, according to your logic... all murderers should go free then, because they were made that way..and therefore cannot be held accountable... I do not think that excuse will work when Judgement comes...It doesn't work in our court rooms..and it wont work in front of our Creator.
"all murderers should go free then, because they were made that way..and therefore cannot be held accountable."
Do you have scientific proof that murders are born that way. No you don't. Plus it would be classified as a mental illness if a person could prove they had issues from childhood. It' harms another person being gay does not. A gay relationship is about two consenting people having a loving relationship. Being gay is also NOT a mental illness if you actually knew what you were talking about. It's funny usually someone consumed with the gay issue is a closet one. It's time to accept your true self.
@steven, 1st scientific proof is not 154,000 gay people saying they were born that way. 2nd. Even if a person had a bad childhood does not enable the excuse of Murder so that eliminates the enviroment arguement..since only mental incompetance would eliveate that judgement. As far as true self..I am a child of God and CHOOSE his ways more than my desires. a Gay person chooses his desires over GOD..in other words you are cheating on God for your real Love Sin(gay)
"1st scientific proof is not 154,000 gay people saying they were born that way."
That is 154000 scientist and psychologist moron! This just keeps getting better because you are showing you absolutely don't know what you are talking about.
"a Gay person chooses his desires over GOD"
No God created gay people. It's even been shown in 1500 other species. God is making gay! So a person can be gay and choose God if that is their choice.
Steven, you may want to reference your research.. and what fields of study. this information could go along way to enabling everyone to do what ever they want without being held accountable for anything. This is really silly.. Either you love God enough to Stop or You Don't. Either GOD is primary in your Life or He is not.
@crucified – "a bad childhood does not enable the excuse of Murder" You equating the forceful taking of anothers life to two consenting adults who may be in love getting physical behind closed doors is about the dumbest thing I've heard on these boards. Being gay is no more a choice than being left handed. And it has nothing to do with an "act" it has everything to do with what turns you on.
A Spaghetti noodle always starts out straight till it gets in hot water...
"Either you love God enough to Stop or You Don't. Either GOD is primary in your Life or He is not."
That is not true there are now many churches, pastors, priests, nuns, rabbis and others that have stated being gay is not a sin because of what we now know about gays. I am not going to do your research for you. You are coming up with excuses to hold onto your bigotry nothing more.
"Either you love God enough to Stop or You Don't." Wait, I think you mean "Either you love MY God enough to Stop or You Don't." Go tell your God to Ef off. God of love my a s s, God of exclusivity & narrow minded stuck up hypocrites.
@ScottK I Spegetti Noodle Believing in God would never of gotten into the Hot Water...but turned from the Hot water to prove his love to his Creator.
"turned from the Hot water to prove his love to his Creator."
There are gay loving Christians who have both loving marriages and belief in God.
This will eventually be one of those debates much like the flat earth or evolution where Christians stop pushing the 6 day creation bunk because of the mountain of evidence to the contrary. You will eventually either admit that people are born gay/straight or live as a flat earther denying any evidence that contradicts your ignorant position.
@scottk you are wrong, the bible say the earth is Round in Isaiah..you can try to refute what I am saying but you will make yourself look foolish. also, Steven, There are also, many people who truly love GOD and are temp.ted by the desires of their Flesh..and resi.st those temp.ta.tio.ns in ob.edi.ance to their Creator..Showing Love means being O.bed.iant.You should read Ju.de 1:7, then Romans 1:27-32, or 1 ti.mo.thy, 1 cori.nth, or matthew where Jesus says refrain from se.xu.al immoria.lity since he was Jew that made reference to Lev. which says Gayness is an abo.min.at.ion
@crucified – it's largely because of "loving" Christians like you that made me attempt suicide in high school. thankfully i lived long enough to see you false prophets for what you are. as far as i'm concerned, you and your kind are guilty of manslaughter every time a young gay man or lesbian takes their own life. i truly hope you learn what unconditional love really means so that the deaths can finally stop
@Crucifed the Bible says that we are all born in sin with a need for the savior. so that means we all have the inherent nature to sin so thinking this way yes you could be born gay.
@brenda then you ignore the words of Jesus...I am Holy so Be Holy! the point is no matter what sin you have you should turn and repent from that sin.. not stay with it... Gayness. is a reoccuring sin there is no growing in holiness unless repentance therefore dening the work of the spirit.. with your logic.. God should just take everyone to heaven no matter what. and therefore is not just. a key element to salvation is repentance not acceptance.
crucified
@brenda then you ignore the words of Jesus...I am Holy so Be Holy! the point is no matter what sin you have you should turn and repent from that sin.. not stay with it... Gayness. is a reoccuring sin there is no growing in holiness unless repentance therefore dening the work of the spirit.. with your logic.. God should just take everyone to heaven no matter what. and therefore is not just. a key element to salvation is repentance not acceptance.
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Jesus told me the other day that a shot a day of tequila keeps the bug away. I swear to god right in front of my house he told me this.
@Artist you are a troll. @Coran I am sorry that you would at some point in your life choose the selfish act of suicide. an act that epidimizes wooos me.... You either Love God enough to Change or you do Not. I have had sins in my life that have taken years to control...but I never make excuses for them.. I am more determined to conquer them.. Blaming others for your short falls is a picture of what happened in the Garden. I accept my sin and choose to change.. gayness is rebellion against God because you refuse to change.. you simply do not Love God enough...Gayness is Self motivated and so is Suicide.
crucified
@Artist you are a troll.
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Because I do not worship a man that clearly was schizophrenic? Or is it because I dare express an opinion on a man that you worship?
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So you don't think Jesus showed signs of schizophrenia?
@Artist no. you are a troll because you interupt discussion with the most off the wall comment to insite responses.The definition of a web troll.. look up on Google.. You go from blog to blog just trying to stir people up,, not to actually add value to discussion.. if you are athiest go to an athiest blog..and enjoy yourself.
"gayness is rebellion against God because you refuse to change.."
Again you are showing your true ignorance on this subject. Human beings cannot choose to be either gay or straight. Psychologists do not consider se-xual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed.
What you don't comprehend is being gay is not a sin nor is it a rebellion, they were created that way and why they are now welcomed at many churches. If you actually picked up a history book, you would know that the scriptures you are talking about have to do with pagan rituals and male prost-itution. People like you are disgusting.
@steven it say Gay! Romans 1:27-32, Jude 1:7 are unmistakeable... Just say " I do not love God enough to Change" instead of being a hypocrite who says they love Jesus but refuses to obey his commands!
"Romans 1:27-32"
You need to pick up a history book. It's about or-gi-e s-ex not gays worshiping a pa-gan god. You will do anything to justify your hate and bigotry.
@steven you are making excuses for your sin... you can not explain away romans, jude 1:7, 1 corinth, 1 timothy, matthew where jesus even says one man and one woman shall make one flesh... not billy and bob.. jesus also says that if it were so I would of told you.. in other words if there were anything questionable about the current thought on the issues of the time he would of explained them.. so that makes lev. and deu. apply also..dont be a hypocrite just say"I do not Love Jesus enough to change!" if you do Love Jesus you would obey his commands and the commands of the disciples.
@steven by the way, I am not the Bigot.. based on what you have said Jesus, God, the disciples, the Bibles are Bigots. Either you Believe and obey or you do not LOVE him enough to change
"@steven you are making excuses for your sin... you can not explain away romans, jude 1:7, 1 corinth, 1 timothy, matthew where jesus even says one man and one woman shall make one flesh... not billy and bob.. jesus also says that if it were so I would of told you.. in other words if there were anything questionable about the current thought on the issues of the time he would of explained them.. so that makes lev. and deu. apply also..dont be a hypocrite just say"I do not Love Jesus enough to change!" if you do Love Jesus you would obey his commands and the commands of the disciples."
Your one stupid person, I am not gay moron. You are the one making excuses for your bigotry so stop trying to deflect it over gibberish.
crucified
@steven you are making excuses for your sin... you can not explain away romans, jude 1:7, 1 corinth, 1 timothy, matthew where jesus even says one man and one woman shall make one flesh... not billy and bob.. jesus also says that if it were so I would of told you.. in other words if there were anything questionable about the current thought on the issues of the time he would of explained them.. so that makes lev. and deu. apply also..dont be a hypocrite just say"I do not Love Jesus enough to change!" if you do Love Jesus you would obey his commands and the commands of the disciples
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Huh, I didn't know Jesus wrote that.
@ARTIST troll the atheist web blogs would not accept your comments? @steven you are the one who sounds angry and bigotous... i only say if you say you follow Jesus then follow him..dont make his teachings comfortable and palletable. but adhere to what you believe...as Jesus said. since you do not believe what the prophets said and wrote about me how can you believe what i say. in John Since you do not believe the bible you cannot adhere to Jesus unless you Believe it.
"since you do not believe the bible you cannot adhere to Jesus unless you Believe it."
Jesus never condemned the loving saved gay partnership.
@steven His disciples did. Jude was his brother and disciple. Hence, Jude 1:7..If you do not adhere to pauls teachings than you are saying you only believe 40%of the new testament and none of the old. which jesus referenced often. since I qouted from Jude that takes another couple of percent..of course you would have to exclude mark.. and matthew.. where JESUS says Let Man and Woman make one Flesh...not billy and Bob. or you could look at creation itself.. if God wanted Gay behavior he would of made natural procreation through gay acts..itstead the man who heard from GOD moses said gay is an abomination to God.
@steven "just say I don't love God enough to accept that Gay is wrong"
There are several major holes in the theory that So-dom and Gom-or-rah were destroyed because of ho-m-ose-xuality. First, The idea that "all" the men of So-dom were gay is ridiculous. For one thing, Lot's daughters were pledged to be married to men of So-dom. Second, if all the men were ho-m-ose-xuals, why did Lot offer his daughters to appease them? What good would it do to offer a gay man a woman to have s-ex with? The people threatened Lot. If he didn't comply with their wishes they said they would do worse to him that to the two visitors. They were also trying to force the door down. They were obviously violent and they were trying to get at two unwilling guests. Whenever you mix s-ex with violence against an unwilling person you do not have ho-m-ose-xuality, you have ra-pe.
All you keep doing is proving you are clueless and brainwashed on this subject.
God created gay people it's time you open your mind and love his creation.
@crucified – Methinks the lady doth protest too much...
I'll wager that ol' crucified here is attempting to claim that people are not born gay and just have to fight off the evil inclinations because every day of his life he has had to fight those urges and thinks every guy in the world has to do the same. Every time he turns on the TV and see's Brad Pitt he has to turn it off and run around the house a few times to fight back his mouthwatering lust. So it would be reasonable for him to claim no one is born gay because if he did then he would have to admit he was as well. As long as he vehemently refutes that position then he can be at ease feeling good about himself for "denying" the lusts of this world for so long, that of course afflict everyone, not just him, but he's just so super strong he won't give in...
You go girl...
@steven Love the people, Hate the Sin/rebellion... it is the eqivalent of a person cursing at my God everytime they condone a behavior God Hates...Leviticus and Deutironomy. as far as your points you are rationalizing 1 scripture but not the other 4 that refute gayness in new testament. also, it was not the attacking of the two men that caused the destruction of So.dom it was them witnessing the evil nature for the cries and peti.tions had already gone to God and he sent witnesses. and if you read discourse with abraham there was not 10 righteous people in Sodom. we know it was gay acts because of the word used in Ezk16:43 which is the same in lev 18...reference 1 corith 6:9, 1 tim 6:10...or better just reference Matt 19:4-6 where Jesus says exactly how it should be. case closed if you believe Jesus teachings you are against the rebellion of Gay.
@scottk well i do fight temptation through the power of the spirit because I have surrendered my will to that of God's Will for my life..but my temptation is for woman..I choose to resist the temptation and am obediant to scripture. For my spouse and I our one flesh.
No, it's about pros-ti-tu-tion. If you really want to find out it's about men wanting to sleep with angels for power too, this has nothing to do with being gay. The research is in – it's been shown that throughout history what people knew about gays were based on bias and prejudice people who didn't understand the truth. I am sure you can relate to that. The translators were bias, Paul was bias, etc.... Wow are you clueless. God is now showing the truth about gays deal with it!
"For my spouse and I our one flesh."
When two gay men or two lesbians come together they are also one flesh.
Well, I'm sure you would never agree to it but the only way you can find out a persons s e x uality is to give them the gay test. Stand there in a pair of sweats and watch at least 20 minutes of gay pron and see who gets turned on. Now watch 20 minutes of straight pron. That should give you a "raging" clue as to how you were born since attraction is not a "learned" behavior. You are just an biggoted ignoramus hiding behind religion to either atone for some guilt or to make yourself feel superior to others. Science backs up the fact that people are born gay, gay people back up the fact that people are born gay, health proffesionals back up the fact that people are born gay, you are all alone on your island of exclusivity and prejudice.
@Steven and Scott Like I said before... You obviously Love Yourselves and your LUST more than your God.." so why do you bother believing. Either Obey the Bible or Don't but don't call yourself Christian and say GOD accepts my Behavior and Bible is wrong because of translation or other such nonsense.. The Methodist, Baptist, Catholic all stand firm on this issue because it is irrafutible through scripture. You just do not LOVE God enough.
"The Methodist, Baptist, Catholic all stand firm on this issue because it is irrafutible through scripture. You just do not LOVE God enough."
Now the truth comes out you are one of those phelp nut cases who distorts the truth of the bible to justify your twisted per-verted view of gays.
As the Catholic Church understands it, wrong and sin are not the same thing. Wrong is harm, disorder, destruction; it is in the objective or external world. Sin is self-distancing from God; it is in the heart. Sin is more a general att-itude than any particular action. We sin when we deliberately do what we believe is wrong. Then in our hearts we opt for evil. Then we move away from goodness and from God, who is good.
It may well be that what you do is not wrong at all. But if you think it is and you do it anyway, well, you are corrupt. That’s sin! Or what you do may really be wrong. But if you don’t honestly think so and you do it, well, your heart is not really amiss. You may be uninformed, naive, or stupid, and even dangerous, but unless you have neglected properly informing yourself, you are not sinful.
The Church teaches right and wrong but never says who is a sinner. Only God knows our hearts. Many ho-mos-exual people simply cannot believe that gay s-ex as such is wrong. So they do what for them is “the best they can do,” though Church teaching says that ho-mo-gen-ital acts are wrong. Still, according to the same Church’s teaching on conscience, they do not sin in their hearts nor before God. Then they need not confess what is not sin, and they may participate in the Sacraments of the Church
You totally miss the point that gayness is the perpetual act of sining..there is no repentance..if you continue the act only force the hand of God against the Rebellion.
"You totally miss the point that gayness is the perpetual act of sining."
No, you are clueless. Gays have been shown that they are born this way, therefore they know God created them, with that in their heart they do not sin against God nor do they distance themselves from him. Now you have been shown the truth about gays being born this way your continued hatred and lies about them makes you a sinner before God.
If you were a true christian you would be more concerned with if they are saved or not that is more important than what they are doing in their personal bedrooms. You are fascinated with their personal lives which is why deep down you are gay but are to afraid to admit it.
I agree that the bible does not leave much wiggle room on this subject, but then again each person who wants to use the bible as a life guide is welcome to, and they can pick and choose which parts of it they want to adhere to as ALL Christians do. But the fact that people are born gay and straight does not change one bit no matter how many times the bible says it's wrong. You can choose to believe that when the bible says it's wrong that it means that it wasn't god's original plan and thus humans cannot be born that way, but that does not make it true. You can claim the divinity of Jesus and claim all kinds of supernatural things that you cannot and will not ever be able to prove. The things we can test and prove with science has proven that people are born with preconceived attraction to a certain s e x which would seem to indicate that either your understanding of the bible is wrong or the bible itself is.
@steven I am more concerned about a person being saved..salvation is a beginning not an ending..a growing in holiness. a loving of the things God loves and hating the things God Hates///which God hates sin...and Gay is Sin/therefore if a person is gay and openly acting on their impulses they are not saved for they blasphamey.For the Spirit would have open rejection to Sin and the relationship of the endwelling Spirit cannot happen..just like you cannot watch p.orn and pray to Jesus at same time you can not act Gay and have the Spirit in you. so yes when I say these things I am concerned about the salvation of the gay community.@scottk science does not prove that psychologist have removed it from their mental illness list. a panel of bias people swayed by the societal agenda basing arguements on emotion is not science, You either LOVE God more than your gay partner or you don't if you do you would follow the words of the bible. if not than you cannot call yourself a Christian.. I certainly Love God more than my wife and children. the Gay thing is just Idolizing Lust for unnatural desires above GOD. If it were natural the Designer would of given two Men or two woman the ability to procreate naturally.
"God hates sin...and Gay is Sin/therefore if a person is gay and openly acting on their impulses they are not saved for they blasphamey."
Gay is not a sin and it is not your place to judge another persons sin. Gays will be in heaven while you are rotting in he-ll because of your misguided belief system.
@reply I am only repeating the scriptures from bible..Not judging..Jesus is the Judge with his scriptures. also, Paul actually teaches that you do correct the people that claim to be christians, if they do not accept correction you take a witness, if they still do not accept you put them out of the church. so yes you do correct Christians...your definition of judging is incorrect. correcting is not judging no one is picking up stones here. but if you claim to be Christian you must follow the scriptures. if you do not such as turning away from gay, then do not call yourself Christian. It is a sin romans 1:27-32, jude 1:7, 1 timothy 6:9-10, 1 corith 6:9-10
crucified you really need to get a history book of that time period what you are using to claim as sin is is really about a culture that used s*ex to worship their god. It's about ido*latry and prost*it*tion. You must have failed in school on reading comprehension, you have to put it into historical perspective to understand the true meaning and stop taking it literally.
Crucified, what some of the people here are trying to communicate is that there is scholarship that indicates that translations of the Bible may be in error on the issue of condemning hom-ose-xuality, and may only reflect the translators' cultural prejudices rather than the actual text. For example, the original Greek text of the NT does not use the Greek word for hom-ose-xuality, but rather in every case uses a colloquialism understood from other contemporary sources to refer to male temple prosti-tutes. And that the OT phraseology can legitimately be translated to having adulterous relationships with another man in your marriage bed. If that scholarship is correct, then the entire Biblical basis of attacks on ho-mose-xuality is null and void. I can't say whether it's right or not, and as an atheist I don't really even care. Butbi should think you, as a believer, at least owe it to yourself to investigate the validity of those claims.
"Showing Love means being O.bed.iant."
I don't imagine you'd have much success trying to apply that line to relationships with actual people who exist outside of your head.
yes, I am sure that when the laws in Lev where handed down from moses he was talking about Pagan temple pros.t.it.utes...Use your brains people he was talking to the Jews not Pagans. they already lined up with Monotheism. the ones that didnt where killed with the golden cow before this law was grounded. It says man lie with man is abomination. then read Jude 1:7 and romans 1:27-32 , 1 corinth and 1 timothy. not once was the word temple used. not once was pagan God used in the context..you guys/gays are reaching for straws....and straws BURN...Why can a man and a man not procreate if you where designed to be gay? answer you where not designed that was..you a suffering from a depraved mind.
"not once was the word temple used. not once was pagan God used in the context..you guys/gays are reaching for straws."
Keep showing your ignorance about history and that time period. Nice going..keep spreading your lies and hatred. It fanstastic knowing that people like you are going to he-ll! LMAO!
Amazing story:) I love it!
He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24)
Typical Anti-Christian CNN – granted, you guys are more subtle now, but we can still see it!
Don't tell me something isn't in the Bible when it is
You believe in a book that you have no idea or when it was written and which most of the holidays fall on Pagan holidays which is known as the oldest religion. The bible is to control the masses and has killed more innocent people than natural disasters. How can you believe in a bood that is soooo destructive? I will never understand ignorance.
P.S. I am a Buddahist so try listening to the Dali Lama for some good sound guidence to a happier fuller life.
@Tania listening to a chubby statue named budda that you have to feed coins and rub his naked belly, no thank you..
crucified
@Tania listening to a chubby statue named budda that you have to feed coins and rub his naked belly, no thank you..
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verses listening to a schizophrenic who thought he waked on water, talked to a guy in the sky that "only he could hear" and decised to commit suicide by jumping up on a corss. Makes sense to the delusional lol
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Schizophrenia is a mental disorder that makes it difficult to tell the difference between real and unreal experiences, to think logically, to have normal emotional responses, and to behave normally in social situations.
As the illness continues, psychotic symptoms develop:
• False beliefs or thoughts that are not based in reality (delusions)
• Hearing, seeing, or feeling things that are not there (hallucinations)
@artist It is better than listening to you.,. selfish, hopeless, none fruitbearing cries of acceptance from angry mobs of rebellion. no thankyou... I put my belief in the cross.. the motives of fishermen... and the many christian before who endeared till death.. but mostly those that veiwed Jesus rising to Heaven in Acts..and Stayed the Course until Death. So artist keep your long winded gaps of air for other athiest who talk about what they do not believe more than what they do!
"@artist It is better than listening to you.,. selfish, hopeless, none fruitbearing cries of acceptance from angry mobs of rebellion. no thankyou... I put my belief in the cross.. the motives of fishermen... and the many christian before who endeared till death.. but mostly those that veiwed Jesus rising to Heaven in Acts..and Stayed the Course until Death. So artist keep your long winded gaps of air for other athiest who talk about what they do not believe more than what they do!"
You are such a hypocrite.
crucified
... I put my belief in the cross.. the motives of fishermen... and the many christian before who endeared till death.. but mostly those that veiwed Jesus rising to Heaven in Acts..and Stayed the Course until Death. ––
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You do realize others believed their leaders and followed them to their death????? History is scattered with schizophrenic leaders with "followers" who trusted motives of others. We have mental inst i tutions full of people willing to die because of their visions. Your view or perception is nothing new or special. Your faith is in man and the handbook written by man helps reenforce the delusion.
@artist thankyou for bringing up...actually I knew you would .. kinda baited you... Yes but Christianity is the only religion where it was an eyewitness account and followed till death...... not told to believe by mom and dad...but actually saw the rising of Christ into the Clouds..better than that ate and slept near and lived with for 3 1/2 years if there was any falseness they would of just disappeared, but they pressed on till death.
@steven by the way a hypocrite is someone who says they believe and does not follow what they believe.. I say gay is wrong according to te bible and you call me a hypocrite.. funny..just say you do not believe rather than faking it. or just say you do not Love God enough.. or even better question God's authority on the matter. Good luck in front of the Judge. Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!
"Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!"
You are the guilty one you are being shown the truth about gays so when you stand in judgment and God looks at you full of hate you will realize what a coward you are.
I already told you Steven... I LOVE YOU GUYS, hate the Sin...the same way GOD views it.
"I already told you Steven... I LOVE YOU GUYS, hate the Sin...the same way GOD views it"
So now you are speaking for God nice going moron. LOL! God created gays, they are born this way get over yourself.
Hey every one according to Steven all Murderers should go free because they were Born that way... all pediphiles yep you off the hook..you born that way...all beastialities yep you off too.. you born that way... I guess God forgot to emplant the abilty for a gay couple to procreate natually because he wanted it that way...silly goose..you sound really really silly. by the way all rap.ist you off too. all blashemers you off too because you born that way...boy this arguement gets sillier and sillier..
"Hey every one according to Steven all Murderers should go free because they were Born that way... all pediphiles yep you off the hook..you born that way...all beastialities yep you off too.. you born that way.."
Been through this argument with you, you are lashing out because your are clueless on the truth about gays. You fall back to this lame argument when ever you are loosing. Now go back through the pages and show you can actually comprehend what you are reading.
GOD is real. Love is the key and the answer....the blood of life. We should be concerned with loving others with agape love and being kind to all. Love is the most important gift and message.
Yes, someone else gets it!
THANK YOU FOR YOUR BEAUTIFUL WORDS.
Brenda, all of those examples you give–pedophiles, "incestors," murderers–have victims. They hurt people. Who is hurt by two mature, adult people loving each other? (Or, for that matter, just being attracted to each other?)
To love the sinner and not love the sin is a hard concept for some christians. this was a aspect that I my self had to learn . My gay nephew knows that I love him but do not agree with or love his life style. It's a pretty sad state when we feel we need to accept everyones sin to be able to accept them. next will be pedophiles, incestors, murderers. because if we don't accept all of who and what they are we don't love them right? The Bible says that it would save us from our sins not save us in our sins.
@Brenda – What a lame argument if you really understood gays you wouldn't be grouping them with pedophiles, incestors, murderers. Why don't you actually do some research on the subject instead of forming an opinion on stupidity to justify your personal prejudice. Oh, and here's a hint being gay is about two consenting adults having a loving relationship. Pedophiles, incestors, murderers inflict harm on others without their consent. Get the picture moron!
A pedophile damages a child.
A person who commits incest (providing we are talking about an adult-child form of incest) damages a child.
A murderer kills another human being.
A gay man loves a gay man. A lesbian woman loves a lesbian woman.
These are not the same thing. Your argument is designed to fear-monger and cast a consensual, loving, adult relationship in the same category as criminals.
Brenda if you were a good "Bible Thumper" and read your bible then you have no right to judge ANYONE, only GOD does!! And grouping them together as DUH saud is sickining. You are obviously ignorant of the Bible and what its message is and on is to not judge! So go back and read your bible and read that line over and over and over again until you believe that you believe that God will let you into His World! Otherwise you might want to consider how you will feel in Hell or Purgatory!! IGNORANCE IS WHAT RUINS US AS HUMAN BEINGS! LEARN WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTHS!
Yes because you've never sinned???? Oh yes, thee who is without sin, go ahead and throw that rock......!!!!!
Does you nephew agree with your non-gay lifestyle?
Dear Brenda you do not love you gay nephew or you would not associtate him with pedophiles incestors or murders most people who fit those catogories are straight by the way. You are typical Christian hateful, intollerant, vain and one day God is going to humble you in your SINFUL PRIDE!
@brenda, you are correct.. romans 1:27-32 there are scriptures that specifically say do not even eat or associate with such people..people controlled by their lust.
"with such people..people controlled by their lust."
You just continue to show how ignorant you are about gay people. When you have a relationship with your partner or spouse do you lust over them? No, you don't and neither do gay people. Your warped definition of gay people is why you have prejudice and hatred in your heart.
@steven actually i love the person,, Hate the Sin.. much like God. Repent! I love you enough to tell you God Hates the Sin of Gay-jude 1:7 and the consequence is the lake of Fire the same as the Devil...
"@steven actually i love the person,, Hate the Sin."
LMAO that's not in the bible. Keep showing you're clueless.