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Your Take: Commenters on doomsday leader's end of world revision
May 25th, 2011
09:49 PM ET

Your Take: Commenters on doomsday leader's end of world revision

This week's Belief Blog story on doomsday leader Harold Camping claiming he still expects the world to end on October 21, even after the apocalyptic events he predicted for Saturday failed to materialize, fetched nearly 5,000 comments.

Lots of you left tongue-in-cheek ripostes to Camping's insistence that he merely misinterpreted the Bible's guidance about Judgement Day:

Cleveland
The end of the world is a big deal. Preach on, brother. Since the end is surely coming, I would like to help you and your congregation by accepting all of your money since you won't be needing it. I imagine that all of us sinners will be buying & selling right up to the end, and I for one would like to relieve you of the trouble. Besides, I saw the new SLS this year & have a pretty good idea that I could have it if all of you paid for it.

johnmenacherjr
So when is this nutbag running for the Republican presidential nomination?

Many commenters used the May 21 doomsday movement to whack Christians or to make a case for atheism:

Richard Cheese
Is it really going to take the rapture for Christians to go away? Can't they just take a hint?

Kathleen
Alone in a dark room ... sad ... depressed or whatever is ailing our heart. That is the time we are most vulnerable to believe that god is there. But wishing doesn't make it so. If the world is too complex to have been created by god, then how is it that god, who is supposedly far more complex than the whole universe, came to be by accident? If I could get a logical answer to this question, I might believe that god exists.

Jesus
The Bible is a fairy tale. It's make belive bs for people who are not leaders, for followers, for sheep.

Such attacks brought out defenders of religion:

bob
Can't see gravity either, but you would say that we can measure it by its effect. After all it is scientific truth that for there to be an effect, there must be a cause. We can't see God but logic must prevail when we see the effects of everything around us. Creation. It's orderly and incredible. Yet, you would probably say it came about by mere chance or accident. If this is true, why can't we with our intelligence duplicate something that came about by accident? Why can't we create something from nothing? Why can't we create life from nothing? Wow, which takes more 'blind faith'? Believing something happened by chance just so perfectly to result in this universe - something we cannot duplicate, or admitting that there is someone a lot smarter than mankind that has done this?

Tim
Your assumption about all Christians being ignorant fools is actually all based on the actions of a minority of lunatics and uneducated "so-called" Christians. Yes, a lot of people claim and think they are, and believe ridiculous things, cause more problems in the world and do get in the way of medicine and science and are basically just crappy people. However, there are those that take things for what they are, are intelligent, good people, who don't impose their beliefs on the world, politics or other people. The so-called Christians that believe in ghosts floating around (being watched by a guardian angel or dead relative), those that think when a child dies, they float up to heaven and become "angels" and think the end of the world is coming in our lifetime or that of their children's generation, are really just the ignorant ones that don't understand or lead the lives they claim they are leading. People like that are easily duped.

A normal, sane and intelligent Christian does ask questions, accepts facts and they simply have faith in a higher power and the association with Jesus Christ. The man did exist, for example, but one could easily debate if he was the son of God. The only difference between a normal, everyday decent person and one that's a Christian (a true Christian), is their belief in a higher power.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Comments • End times

soundoff (351 Responses)
  1. http://eat.vn

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    March 28, 2013 at 12:49 pm |
  2. Keith Bastin

    The article states: ""You can write your own sacred book, call it, for instance, 'Pirripipirripible,' and make it teach how awesome is 'pirripipirripi,'" this commenter continues. "... All we ask in exchange is that you leave 'marriage' and 'Holy Bible' as they are.""

    This is a rather absurd statement – The statement seems to suggest that the concept of "Marriage" belongs to "religion" but it certainly didn't originate with the Judeo Christian Religion: there is very clear evidence of marriage in Egyptian; Persian and babylonian books that predate the earliest books of the bible by over 600 years. Clearly the concept of "Marriage" is not something exclusively from the Abrahamic Religions.

    June 13, 2012 at 7:03 pm |
  3. Marie Kidman

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGSvqMBj-ig&w=640&h=360]

    June 23, 2011 at 12:10 pm |
  4. marilyn

    hello, this gentleman has said the same thing different dates since 82 I believe. What does the Bible say of false prophets, what does the Bible say of who knows the end times. As for the president being christian? No, he may say he is and no am not judging him but holding accountable. We are to follow the word of God, no where does it say we compramise because we made new rules, or this group will feel better. He wants to stop National Day of Prayer yet will hold and has attended for Muslims in October. How does he honor our Lord that way. No,we are to see in each of us by what we say and do Jesus, to do as He would have us do as is in the Word of God. I pray for him, as many do that indeed he does seek Jesus, recommit himself his life to Jesus if indeed he was christian. God bless

    June 8, 2011 at 11:11 pm |
  5. damn yank

    God is not bound by space and time. God is the creator, space and time is a creation. God is not bound by his creation.

    The problem with christianity, is that many ignorant preachers make unscientific statements that are not confirmed by the bible.

    June 1, 2011 at 7:02 am |
    • Muneef

      D.Y.

      You said; The problem with christianity, is that many ignorant preachers make unscientific statements that are not confirmed by the bible.

      Same thing could easily apply to Muslims where their imams could make statments that are not in confirmation with the Quran..

      June 1, 2011 at 10:44 am |
  6. Muneef

    God never wronged the people.
    ------
    [3:117] The example of their accomplishments in this life is like a violent wind that hits the harvest of people who have wronged their souls, and wipes it out. GOD never wronged them; it is they who wronged themselves.
    ---–
    [9:70] Have they not learned anything from the previous generations; the people of Noah, `Aad, Thamood, the people of Abraham, the dwellers of Midyan, and the evildoers (of Sodom and Gomorrah)? Their messengers went to them with clear proofs. GOD never wronged them; they are the ones who wronged their own souls.
    -----
    [10:44] GOD never wrongs the people; it is the people who wrong their own souls.
    ---–
    [16:33] Are they waiting for the angels to come to them, or until your Lord's judgment comes to pass? Those before them did the same thing. GOD is not the One who wronged them; they are the ones who wronged their own souls.

    [16:34] They have incurred the consequences of their evil works, and the very things they ridiculed came back to haunt them.
    -----
    [16:118] For the Jews, we prohibited what we narrated to you previously. It was not us who wronged them; they are the ones who wronged their own souls.
    -----
    [29:40] All those disbelievers were doomed as a consequence of their sins. Some of them we annihilated by violent winds, some were annihilated by the quake, some we caused the earth to swallow, and some we drowned. GOD is not the One who wronged them; it is they who wronged their own souls.
    -----
    [30:9] Have they not roamed the earth and noted the consequences for those who preceded them? They used to be more powerful, more prosperous, and more productive on earth. Their messengers went to them with clear signs. Consequently, GOD was not the One who wronged them; they are the ones who wronged their own souls.

    [30:10] The consequences for those who committed evil had to be evil. That is because they rejected GOD's revelations, and ridiculed them.
    -----

    May 31, 2011 at 8:42 pm |
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    May 30, 2011 at 11:51 pm |
  8. Muneef

    Images of Jesus,Mary and the Cross?
    ------------
    Are Christians of today idol worshipers?
    http://www.answering-christianity.com/worship.htm

    Bible Verses about
    Idol Worship
    Romans 1:25 ESV 
    Because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
    http://www.openbible.info/topics/idol_worship
    ----
    An idol is a material object, representing a deity, to which religious worship is directed.
    http://idolatry-and-christianity.co.tv/
    ----–
    In reality, in terms of what the Bible teaches, the Tau or "cross" has nothing to do with Jesus or Christianity.
    http://www.biblestudy.org/question/is-it-wrong-to-wear-or-display-a-cross.html
    ---–
    http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Idolatry

    May 30, 2011 at 8:43 pm |
  9. Muneef

    [55:0] In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

    [55:1] The Most Gracious.

    [55:2] Teacher of the Quran.

    [55:3] Creator of the human beings.

    [55:4] He taught them how to distinguish.

    [55:5] The sun and the moon are perfectly calculated.

    [55:6] The stars and the trees prostrate.

    [55:7] He constructed the sky and established the law.

    [55:8] You shall not transgress the law.

    [55:9] You shall establish justice; do not violate the law.

    [55:10] He created the earth for all creatures.

    [55:11] In it there are fruits, and date palms with their h-anging fruit.

    [55:12] Also grains and the sp-ice-s.

    [55:13] (O humans and jinns,) which of your Lord's marvels can you deny?

    [55:14] He created the human from aged clay, like the potter's clay.

    [55:15] And created the jinns from bla-zing fire.

    [55:16] (O humans and jinns,) which of your Lord's marvels can you deny?

    http://www.submission.org/suras/sura55.html

    May 30, 2011 at 6:16 pm |
  10. santa

    I survived the rapture and all i got was this lousy t-shirt
    http://www.zazzle.com/i_survived_the_rapture_all_i_got_was_this_tshirt-235154003255349322

    May 30, 2011 at 4:52 pm |
  11. LinCA

    A request to all believers.

    As it by now must be obvious that there are quite a few people on this blog that either:
    – Never believed there are any gods.
    – Once believed in a god, but no longer do.
    – Once believed in one god, but now believe in another.
    – Didn't believe before, but now believe in a god.
    – Have always believed in the same god, but have changed denominations.

    This shows that there is a lot of doubt.

    My request is that you convince me and others of what is obviously so convincing to you. Please make your case. I promise that I will read your arguments with an open mind and, if you convince me, change my affiliation to your religion.

    May 29, 2011 at 4:02 pm |
    • Scott

      I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian home and suffered all the associated physical and emotional abuse that comes with it. I began my separation from religion with the simple question. How can a god that is as loving, forgiving and compassionate as Christians insist their god is not come to my aid after all the prayers I have prayed?

      I started doing simple tests. They said if you do this, god will do that. Didn’t matter how “virtuous” I was, nothing changed. Didn’t matter how “sinful” I was, nothing changed.

      I started looking around. The good were not blessed, the evil were not cursed. The Christians didn’t get any better treatment from a natural disaster then the sinners.

      Science kept making more and more sense (the more pieces I got, the better they fit together). Religion kept making less sense (the more pieces I got, the more they contradicted each other)
      The more I looked, and tested and measured, the more the world seemed exactly like it would be if there was no god.
      So I said there is not god and walked away from religion; but, I still watched. I didn’t start to murder or steel or hurt people or even cheat on my taxes. In fact I was behaving better as an atheist then I did as a Christian. Especially more compassion (you may have noticed that many religious types don’t seem to have much compassion for people who aren’t in their club)

      But I said “OK” I’ll give Christianity one more chance, I’ll read the bible cover to cover and see what it actually has to say. I didn’t make it past the first 5 books. The “good guys” were doing incomprehensibly horrible things to “other” people (cities, religions, countries) in the name of god or because god commanded them to (and occasionally punished them for disobeying him and showing a bit of mercy)

      Interestingly I still have an open mind, I still look for proof (or even slight indication, or the tiniest hint) of god (it would be so nice of the nice stories about him were true) (but god help us if the not so nice stories were true)

      May 29, 2011 at 11:32 pm |
    • Scott

      How can there be a god and these people have not been incinerated by lightening?
      Eddie L. Long, – work in progress
      Jim & Tammy Bakker
      Jimmy Swaggart,
      Ted Haggard
      Pat Robertson
      Robert Tilton
      Peter Popoff
      Morris Cerullo,
      W. V. Grant,
      Bob Moorehead,
      John Paulk,
      Richard Roberts,
      Thomas Wesley Weeks,
      Michael Reid,
      Joe Barron,
      Todd Bentley,
      George Alan Rekers,
      Vaughn Reeves,
      Marcus Lamb

      May 29, 2011 at 11:39 pm |
    • KingdomCome

      Dear LinCa,
      Thank you for asking people to plead their case... As I thought about your proposal, I thought it would be best to ask you a question... have you ever tried earnestly praying to the Living God that He would lead you into All Truth about the matter... I would venture to say that most people have gotten desperate in their life situations and cried out for direction... that is when God is often found by people... when they have been broken and come to the end of their ropes... they tried to live life on their own and not been successful...I suggest calling out to Him for your own direction in life... everyone has a different story behind their coming to know God personally. 🙂 I truly hopes this helps... if you're not willing to do this... then you truly don't want to know the TRUTH. 😉

      May 30, 2011 at 9:42 pm |
    • LinCA

      @KingdomCome

      You asked:"have you ever tried earnestly praying to the Living God that He would lead you into All Truth about the matter...".

      I haven't done that recently, but considering that I truly don't believe there is any god, let alone the christian god, asking me whether I've prayed to one seems odd. That is akin to asking an adult whether they've seriously written a letter to Santa Claus, asking for a new bike.

      You also said:" I truly hopes this helps... if you're not willing to do this... then you truly don't want to know the TRUTH."

      You imply that you know the truth (kinda presumptuous, but OK). Me asking for you (or someone else) to make your case is me trying to find the truth. I'm trying to find out if I've overlooked something. So tell me, what is so convincing to you that makes you believe there is a god, and that that god is the christian god. What is it that makes you believe that without, as it appears, any obvious evidence.

      All I've seen so far is something like: "You've got to believe to believe". It's a closed loop. Based on that, I'll never get there because I don't believe (yet). Show me the way in, if there is one.

      May 31, 2011 at 12:32 am |
    • LinCA

      @Scott.

      You said:"How can there be a god and these people have not been incinerated by lightening?"

      You forgot all the atheists and those that believe different (in other words, everyone) 😉

      May 31, 2011 at 12:34 am |
  12. ashley

    through out the yerars we heard about flase prophets such as jim jones,charlse manson and david koresh but as for harold camping is he is another not so well know flase prophet he is a dicever to all christians he had made over millions through out charties that made family raido a million dollar raido broadcasting sation throug out the country aand also on tv . he who we call a fasles prophet is also a no good con-artist who made millions of dollars . he claim in that the world would end in 1994 it is now 2011 he now claim that the world would end on october 21,2011 wich is also a flase prophecy.the fcc should not only take his lfamily raido lincense taken away he sholud also make a public apology and he should also not be allowed to been seen and heard on tv and raido ever again . he should be stop before somebody gets hurt phyical,mently,siprty, and emotionly these people who is giveing this him money needs to stop . all this is donig is make him more richer then he was before .
    DO NOT BELIVE THIS FALSE PROPHET HE IS LIKE OTHER FLASE PROPHETS HE IS OUT LOOKING FOR FOR ATTETION ,MONEY ,AND FAME . AS THE BIBLE SAY IN MATTHEW 24:36 NO MAN.NOT THE ANGLES OF HAVEN ONLY GOD KNOW HIM SELF .
    ONCE AGAING HAROLD CAMPING SHOULD STOP HE IS FALSE PROPHET ,LIAR AND A CON-ARTIST.

    May 29, 2011 at 5:20 am |
  13. Comments are not pre-screened before they post.

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    ......

    Really?

    May 28, 2011 at 11:05 pm |
    • Helpful Henry

      bad letter combinations / words to avoid if you want to get past the CNN "awaiting moderation" filter:
      Many, if not most, are buried within other words, so use your imagination.
      You can use dashes, spaces, or other characters to modify the "offending" letter combinations.
      --–
      ar-se.....as in Car-se, etc.
      ba-stard
      co-ck.....as in co-ckatiel, co-ckatrice, co-ckleshell, co-ckles, lubco-ck, etc.
      co-on.....as in rac-oon, coc-oon, etc.
      cu-m......as in doc-ument, accu-mulate, circu-mnavigate, circu-mstances, cu-mbersome, cuc-umber, etc.
      cu-nt.....as in Scu-ntthorpe, a city in the UK famous for having problems with filters...!
      do-uche
      ef-fing...as in ef-fing filter
      ft-w......as in soft-ware, delft-ware, swift-water, etc.
      fu-ck......!
      ho-mo.....as in ho-mo sapiens or ho-mose-xual, ho-mogenous, etc.
      ho-rny....as in tho-rny, etc.
      jacka-ss...yet "ass" is allowed by itself.....
      ja-p......as in j-apanese, ja-pan, j-ape, etc.
      ji-sm
      koo-ch....as in koo-chie koo..!
      nip-ple
      pi-s......as in pi-stol, lapi-s, pi-ssed, therapi-st, etc.
      pr-ick....as in pri-ckling, pri-ckles, etc.
      ra-pe.....as in scra-pe, tra-peze, gr-ape, thera-peutic, sara-pe, etc.
      se-x......as in Ess-ex, s-exual, etc.
      sh-@t.....but shat is okay – don't use the @ symbol there.
      sh-it
      sl-ut
      sn-atch
      sp-ic.....as in disp-icable, hosp-ice, consp-icuous, susp-icious, sp-icule, sp-ice, etc.
      ti-t......as in const-itution, att-itude, ent-ities, alt-itude, beat-itude, etc.
      tw-at.....as in wristw-atch, nightw-atchman, etc.
      va-g......as in extrava-gant, va-gina, va-grant, va-gue, sava-ge, etc.
      who-re....as in who're you kidding / don't forget to put in that apostrophe!
      wt-f....also!!!!!!!

      There are more, some of them considered "racist", so do not assume that this list is complete.

      May 28, 2011 at 11:11 pm |
    • Comments are not pre-screened before they post.

      Then why not just have letter replacement, if someone wants to insult then they will find a way.

      May 28, 2011 at 11:20 pm |
    • Chicken Little

      .....and they do, all the time.
      People here need to use the "report abuse" option if they are offended, or the comment does not meet the criteria for the CNN statement standards. Meanwhile, there are, time and again, examples of sincere non-offensive postings that get "moded" on people who have spent a good deal of time carefully writing their posts, and have something to add to an intelligent discussion. Why can't CNN release a downloadable version of the filter so at least we can easily see what is hanging up our decent postings ? For all I know, THIS may get "moded".

      May 29, 2011 at 1:11 pm |
  14. Keith

    The funny(or not so funny) thing about this Camping guy's prediction is the amount of ridicule Christianity is receiving from the media; as if this dude represents ALL who believe in the rapture and 2nd Coming. Makes me think of the verse about scoffers coming in the last days. This actually separates the men from the boys as some in the church will distance themselves from the church for fear of being mocked. At some point the real thing will happen, like a thief in the night. We are to be prepared for his glorious appearing at any time. We war against the spiritual forces in high places and these forces appear to have a good foothold in our media. See all you believers at the real thing, in the mean time, keep reaching out to the lost-the one you reach out to may just be that last Gentile to come in.

    May 28, 2011 at 5:39 pm |
  15. Muneef

    The Reality of Death
    By Dr. Saleh As-Saleh
    From Oklahoma & Islam
    © Daar Al-Bukhari 

    Life in this world has an appointed term, and the end of the term will definitely come...
    The righteous will die and the wicked will die...
    The worriers for just causes will die and those who run from death will die
    Those who busy themselves with correct belief will die...
    and those who treat people as their slaves will die...
    The brave who rejects injustice will die, and the coward who seeks to cling on to the life at any price will die...
    The people of great concern and lofty goals will die, and wretched people who live only for cheap enjoyment will die...
    Wherever we will be, in a fortress or in a tent, we will die...
    All will die:
    Allah (God) says:
    Everyone shall taste death...
    [Quraan 3: 185]

    No one will escape death. Allah says:

    Say: Verily, the death from which you flee will surely meet you, then you will be sent back to (Allah), the All-Knower of the unseen and the seen, and He will tell you what you used to do.
    [Quraan 62: 8]

    This life is a period of trials and tests. Allah says:

    He (Allah) has created death and life, that He may test which of you is the best in deed. He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving.
    [Quraan 67:2]

    http://www.quraan.com/index.aspx?&tabid=34&artid=61

    -------
     
    Death: An Ultimate Reality
    By Prof. Shahul Hameed
    http://www.islamonline.net/
    Throughout the ages, mankind viewed death as something gruesome and frightening, something that should be postponed indefinitely or abolished if possible, once for all.

    This was because of two reasons. First, death cuts short the life of this world. Second, there was no "proof" about the chance for a new lease of life in a world to come. Death is, as Shakespeare's Hamlet said, "the undiscovered country from whose bourn no traveler returns" to tell us their story.

    All the same, there was also the belief among religions that death served as a kind of passage to another more important arena of life.

    From the Islamic point of view, death is a reality of life, a certainty from which no one is exempt. God says in the Quran what means:

    [Every soul shall have a taste of death: and only on the Day of Judgment shall you be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved from the fire and admitted to the garden will have attained the object (of life): for the life of this world is but goods and chattels of deception.] (Aal `Imran3:185)

    As it is mentioned in the verse, there is going to be a Day of Judgment one has to face after death, when each will be paid in full the fruit of what he or she has earned in this life.

    Those who sowed evil will reap evil and those who sowed good will reap good. All the allure and glamour of this world would then prove to be of no real worth; what is of enduring value would be provided in that world to come.

    http://www.islamawareness.net/Death/death_article004.html

    May 28, 2011 at 4:36 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      Great post. Thanks. I understood from something someone posted yesterday, you may not live in a very safe part of the world. Hope you are safe, and remain so.
      Having experienced and seen a fair amount of death in my life, don't need to read books to understand that human mortality is a reality. It is what it is.
      Am trying to see how what you say is the Islamic view is NOT inconsistent :
      "Every soul shall have a taste of death: and only on the Day of Judgment shall you be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved from the fire and admitted to the garden will have attained the object (of life): for the life of this world is but goods and chattels of deception.] (Aal `Imran3:185)"
      "As it is mentioned in the verse, there is going to be a Day of Judgment one has to face after death, when each will be paid in full the fruit of what he or she has earned in this life".
      "Those who sowed evil will reap evil and those who sowed good will reap good. All the allure and glamour of this world would then prove to be of no real worth; what is of enduring value would be provided in that world to come".

      Either you're dead or you're not dead. If you are temporarily "suspended", that is not dead. If you ARE dead you will experience nothing after that even happens, or it's not "death" by definition. Is it a sort of "pretend" death ? The "Day of Judgement" in it's many forms, seems to be a convenient example of "self talk", which attempts to justify apparently inconsistent and seemingly unacceptable external ("environmental") events which seem to be outside the wished-for most opportune outcomes and patterns, and provides a "satisfying" (mental) resolution for them.

      May 28, 2011 at 5:12 pm |
    • Keith

      Muneef, Hope you are well. I have a verse for you: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." 1 Timothy 2:5. Stay safe.

      May 28, 2011 at 5:54 pm |
    • Keith

      Muneef, not to change the subject, but did you check out the Grant Jeffrey thing about Ezekiel's prophecy on Israel being restored as a nation in May of 1948?

      May 28, 2011 at 5:58 pm |
    • Muneef

      Bucky Ball.

      Thank you for your concern...about subject since am not much in such explanations but all I can say in a simple way...we were told that "Being asleep is a smaller death" while "To die is a bigger death" in the smaller death you dream and then wake up daily basis while at the big death you dream like until you wake up on the resurrection date...

      May 28, 2011 at 6:52 pm |
    • Muneef

      Keith.
      About mediator between God and men... That if you meant by mediator as for an Intercession....
      -----–
      [2:255] GOD: there is no other god besides Him, the Living, the Eternal. Never a moment of unawareness or slumber overtakes Him. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth."Who could intercede with Him, except in accordance with His will?" He knows their past, and their future. No one attains any knowledge, except as He wills. His dominion encompasses the heavens and the earth, and ruling them never burdens Him. He is the Most High, the Great.
      ----
      One God/One Message/One Religion
      [21:25] We did not send any messenger before you except with the inspiration: "There is no god except Me; you shall worship Me alone."

      [21:26] Yet, they said, "The Most Gracious has begotten a son!" Glory be to Him. All (messengers) are (His) honored servants.

      [21:27] They never speak on their own, and they strictly follow His commands.

      The Myth of Intercession
      [21:28] He knows their future and their past. They do not intercede, except for those already accepted by Him, and they are worried about their own necks.

      [21:29] If any of them claims to be a god beside Him, we requite him with Hell; we thus requite the wicked.
      -----
      Quran: Fully Detailed
      [7:52] We have given them a scripture that is fully detailed, with knowledge, guidance, and mercy for the people who believe.

      [7:53] Are they waiting until all (prophecies) are fulfilled? The day such fulfillment comes to pass, those who disregarded it in the past will say, "The messengers of our Lord have brought the truth. Are there any intercessors to intercede on our behalf? Would you send us back, so that we change our behavior, and do better works than what we did?" They have lost their souls, and their own innovations have caused their doom.

      [7:54] Your Lord is the one GOD, who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then assumed all authority. The night overtakes the day, as it pursues it persistently, and the sun, the moon, and the stars are committed to serve by His command. Absolutely, He controls all creation and all commands. Most Exalted is GOD, Lord of the universe.

      [7:55] You shall worship your Lord publicly and privately; He does not love the transgressors.

      [7:56] Do not corrupt the earth after it has been set straight, and worship Him out of reverence, and out of hope. Surely, GOD's mercy is attainable by the righteous.

      [7:57] He is the One who sends the wind with good omen, as a mercy from His hands. Once they gather heavy clouds, we drive them to dead lands, and send down water therefrom, to produce with it all kinds of fruits. We thus resurrect the dead, that you may take heed.

      [7:58] The good land readily produces its plants by the leave of its Lord, while the bad land barely produces anything useful. We thus explain the revelations for people who are appreciative.

      May 28, 2011 at 7:12 pm |
    • Muneef

      Keith.
      About the Prophecy I seen and read but am not good at calculations nor I came across it before...our holy book does not give us such prophecies therefore can not really judge what I know not of...but interesting If it is genuine prophecy although knowing about it in advance might have paved the way for those wanting it to happen as per their desires and not even any American president can stand on their face as we have seen through out recent history...

      May 28, 2011 at 7:20 pm |
    • Keith

      Muneef, I believe the verse means this: Sin has separated us from God. There is a penalty to pay for our sin which only Jesus, God's begotten Son, paid for all who will believe at the cross. When Christ died on the cross, the curtain in the temple which separated the Ark of the Covenant was torn in two-thus giving us access to the Lord. Sin separated us, but Jesus made a Way for to be with God. His blood covers our sins. Thus, Jesus is the one and only mediator between us and God. I hope that makes sense. My wife and three kids will pray for you and your family tonight.

      May 28, 2011 at 9:15 pm |
    • Keith

      Muneef, As far as the prophecy goes, you have to admit-it would be very difficult to resurrect a nation, much less on a specific date. Once nations disappear or are dispersed, they just don't seem to make a comeback. At least I'm not aware of any. The Bible contains many such prophecies which have come true. It has a proven track record.

      May 28, 2011 at 9:21 pm |
    • Muneef

      Dear Keith.

      I have not claimed that the whole bible isn't the words of God...there must have been prophecies that came true...
      My best regards and wish's to your family...
      Read the above verse 57:29 it might be connected to what you just said...
      To here I better say good bye as have to catch up with Fajar prayers...

      May 28, 2011 at 9:45 pm |
    • Muneef

      Keith.
      Check this;

      It is Such Prophecies that been or being made are the real drive behind panic and a cause for those who want us to make believe...

      Such as those BrainwashIng that causes fears and distrusts among peoples of nations....other than having sawn the seeds of evil that take advantage of such prophecies to make believe and to market their products of doom....
      Kindly go through link; 
      http://ourlady3.tripod.com/

      May 29, 2011 at 8:22 pm |
  16. Jordan

    I can only hope the day comes in my lifetime where people who believe in any sort of supernatural belief, from christianity, to islam, to voodoo, are all but gone, and those that remain are looked at as insane. There are no more excuses in this day and age of scientific discovery to still believe in such things. For those that believe in creationism, and that this world is so complex it had to be created by a higher power, let me ask you a question. How complex would the being who can create an entire universe have to be in order to accomplish this task? Then who made him? Then who made that being? Its an impossible, infinite chain of events.

    For those who want to open their minds, i suggest reading The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins and The End of Faith by Sam Harris.

    May 28, 2011 at 4:06 pm |
    • Muneef

      Jordan.

      It is not fair to compare Jews,Christians and Muslims to that voodo stuff you mentioned...those are heavenly while the last is witchcraft....?!

      May 28, 2011 at 7:28 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Muneef. Since there isn't a shred of evidence that would suggest that ANY religion is anything other than a fairy tale, they ALL fit nicely in with voodoo and witchcraft.

      It's all man-made hokum.

      May 29, 2011 at 3:49 pm |
    • Muneef

      These words;
      Are there any historical connections between Science Ancient, Modern with the Prophecies Ancient,Recent....?

      LinCA.
      That's what you think...
      For Muslims and fellow believers "People of the Books",we have our faith on the books that ignited inspirations and the make use of our senses. But as for do not believe or do not want to believe nothing could be done to convince them to believe...I guess even if they experience the real thing they will call it Delusions or Hallucinations....most people go on pills or drugs or spirits therefore can not tell where they were..or will call it magic and still would not believe;

      [5:110] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, remember My blessings upon you and your mother. I supported you with the Holy Spirit, to enable you to speak to the people from the crib, as well as an adult. I taught you the scripture, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. Recall that you created from clay the shape of a bird by My leave, then blew into it, and it became a live bird by My leave. You healed the blind and the leprous by My leave, and revived the dead by My leave. Recall that I protected you from the Children of Israel who wanted to hurt you, despite the profound miracles you had shown them. The disbelievers among them said, `This is obviously magic.'    
      -----
          
      [6:7] Even if we sent down to them a physical book, written on paper, and they touched it with their hands, those who disbelieved would have said, "This is no more than clever magic."

      May 29, 2011 at 7:07 pm |
    • Muneef

      LinCA.
      More for your knowledge ;

      The Books of Believers "The Torah and The Quran"

      [28:48] Now that the truth has come to them from us, they said, "If only we could be given what was given to Moses!" Did they not disbelieve in what was given to Moses in the past? They said, "Both (scriptures) are works of magic that copied one another." They also said, "We are disbelievers in both of them."

      [28:49] Say, "Then produce a scripture from GOD with better guidance than the two, so I can follow it, if you are truthful."

      [28:50] If they fail to respond to you, then know that they follow only their own opinions. Who is farther astray than those who follow their own opinions, without guidance from GOD? GOD does not guide such wicked people.

      [28:51] We have delivered the message to them, that they may take heed.

      [28:52] Those whom we blessed with the previous scriptures will believe in this.

      [28:53] When it is recited to them, they will say, "We believe in it. This is the truth from our Lord. Even before we heard of it, we were submitters."

      [28:54] To these we grant twice the reward, because they steadfastly persevere. They counter evil works with good works, and from our provisions to them, they give.

      [28:55] When they come across vain talk, they disregard it and say, "We are responsible for our deeds, and you are responsible for your deeds. Peace be upon you. We do not wish to behave like the ignorant ones."

      [28:56] You cannot guide the ones you love. GOD is the only One who guides in accordance with His will, and in accordance with His knowledge of those who deserve the guidance.

      May 29, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
  17. Muneef

    Do although feel that such dooms days Reminders or Warners and not a gamblers who enjoy such allegation...after all how long Prophet and Messenger of God "Noah" had to warn his people before and while building his Ark in preparation for the God nominated doom date....!

    Such Reminders,Warners must be saying that with the present ways that all things are being handled globally. The over growth of Fungus on man's beliefs,faiths. The fast over breed of strange Mushrooms of Idologies,Cults,Clans terrorizing innocence on the plant earth.
    The time is closer where nature will be ordered to clean it self by having several dooms days for each nation before the One big and final doom date that comes before the judgment date where then all the earthly livings that had existed on earth from the date of creation until final day would be judged and condemned either for "Punishments or Rewards" for the deeds that they had adopted during their temporary test earthly transitional life...!

    May 28, 2011 at 2:48 pm |
  18. grace

    No one knows the hour, no one knows the day. Jesus is coming "soon".
    He is here now with us all, waiting for all of us to seek him with all our heart. I know we look around today and feel our prayers are unheard. We want god to be loud and clear and so we think he isn't answering when nothing seems to happen. We must seek him with all our hearts, practice praise and learn and do our best effort to follow in his ways, and then we can feel the joy orf the lord, hear his guidance, and he will be our best friend if we listen for his guidance. He calls us to be fishers of men. Jesus and the disciples are our example of this. Hating, and critisizing each other is not of Jesus. We are accountable for those that we meet and fail to influence towards Jesus. Hate and judgement turn people away from Christians. It makes us Pharasees, judging and feeling superior to others without compassion and acts of faith. Jesus is a supernatural force willing to perform signs and wonders through those who seek him.
    Turn towards living for Jesus and he will ocme to you through your walk with him. talk to him. talk to others about his love. He is so worth it.

    Don't be a part of the dead church. Jesus is alive and available to you now.
    Fo more about Jesus love and finding relationship to him you can listen to Bethel church sermons at IBethel, Bill Johnson is the minister there. Also Anything by David Hess, who is the head pastor at Christ community church, camp hill pa. He is on Itunes but there are several churches by that name so find the right one.

    God is performing miracles today. Watch Its Supernatural on ITunes, for more on that.

    May 28, 2011 at 9:50 am |
    • KingdomCome

      @Grace
      Thank you for turning our thoughts towards Him. The author & finisher! You are AMAZING! 🙂

      May 28, 2011 at 11:15 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      Ahem. Grace. Thank you so much for your obviously caring and gentle post.

      Speaking of, did you say, "i toones" ?.
      Is there no tiny little bell that goes off when one says that to/for oneself ? If those were, and are, It's intentions and overall plan, why would It, (supposedly omniscient, and almighty), not have provided and/or revealed AT THE TIME, the technological "where-with-all", (television, radio, cellular technology, or even just "printing" capabilities etc., etc.) which would have allowed "all mankind" to see and participate in the great events of which you speak ?

      As one who was once, very briefly, but seriously, at a very early age, the object of a familial attempt to remove one's civil rights, (temporary guardianship), I would seriously advise against saying out loud, that one's "best friend" is invisible. It may have serious consequences.

      Concerning your choice of which internet sites and pastors you wish to read and listen to, could you provide us the criteria you use to make those choices ? That would be very helpful to us, and then we would know which of the many many others to avoid, and perhaps infer for ourselves, how to make those choices ?

      Permitting me, if you will, to quote yourself, "Jesus and the disciples are our example of this. Hating, and critisizing each other is not of Jesus."
      That, (the "by their fruits you will know them") point is very well taken. As we all know there is at least one among us on this board who seems to have never heard of, or forgotten about that.

      Thank you.

      May 28, 2011 at 2:37 pm |
  19. Charles

    Do people understand? I think that the truth is not about what is good for me but about what the creator wants, Let's look at the time when the bible tells us [ THERE WAS WAR IN HEAVEN ] and Lucifer was cast out along with his followers. Is this the settings of a Grand chess war.
    Did this happen millions of years ago, or only a few thousand years ago. Did God create man as a chess piece in this game, and this war is not about saving your perishable body, but it is about saving your immortal soul.
    I don't think God wants to destroy those wayward souls, but there is no law to govern God and he can do no wrong, but for sin there has to be an atonement.
    We have our man made laws that aid us in judging and punishing wrongdoers, I believe that God also used Jesus and the crucifixion as an atonement for the reconciliation of our souls back to God, in the bible we are told to – fear not the lose of the body but fear the lose of the soul.
    During pregnancy or at birth we are endowed with a soul, when we die the soul departs, where to we do not know, Are these souls a collective piece of God, if all souls turned against God would he cease to exist, Is this the reason we are told to love our brethern, I believe time is very short and we must reflect and try to understand what is expected of a righteous person, whether they are christian, athiest, muslim, buddist etc.
    It is not hard for everyone to read the new testament and try to understand what is regarded as right and pleasing to God

    May 28, 2011 at 8:39 am |
    • jwas1914

      Hello Charles,
      I read your comment and I can see you have a passion for Bible principles. But there are a few things I wanted to bring up to your attention that I have yet to read in the Bible. For example you mentioned “at pregnancy or at birth we are endowed with a soul”. To endow is to give, to provide something with. According to Genesis 2:7 it says that “God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul”. Note: it says man came to be a living soul not that he was provided or endowed with a living soul. Also I’m not quite certain what you meant by at “pregnancy or at birth”. When the male and female cells combine they both begin to form life as we know it. According to Genesis a fetus or infant is not endowed with a living soul but it became a living soul when both cells were combined, of course this is still an astonishing miracle. Science has proven; contrary to population, that a fetus is a living creature. In your statement you also mentioned that when we die our soul departs, well this takes us back to Genesis 2:7 but also Ecclesiastes 9:5 that states “the living are conscious that they will die, but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten”. Psalm 146:4 says “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground, in that day his thoughts do perish”. Please do not confuse “his spirit goes out” as if it were something departing from the body. The Bible refers to the spirit as who we are a living soul. That’s why it says that our thoughts perish when we die. So; where do we go after death? Jesus recognized that when we die our bodies are at rest, as if we were sleeping. He made this clear when he said “Lazarus our friend has gone to rest” (John 11: 11-13). When Lazarus was resurrected; like many others that were resurrected at the time, not one of them mentioned that they were at another life. You would think that at least one person would of recorded on the Scriptures that they were next to God when they died or confirming a place and time. Maybe even possibly be upset or disappointed for returning to earth when they had a perfect spiritual body up in the heavens. This proves that the Bible teachings are correct and we must be very careful to receive teachings from high counsels or priests without confirming their statements with the Holy Scriptures. My intent is not to offend you or anyone reading this article but to pass on the good news as truthfully as possible. Be well and be in peace.

      May 28, 2011 at 10:35 am |
    • charles

      Hi jwas1914, nice to here from you, My comments are some of my own personal thoughts and may not be exactly as the bible says, I try to understand the bible and to what it is trying to tell us.
      A few things you bring to my attention,

      1, God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.
      C – when God blew into adams nostrils was that the exact time he recieved his soul and his body became alive,
      and to be a living soul, uncorrupted, that is most likely true, but after sinning through temptation did he become a corrupt body with a living soul and he would surely die. So Adam became just like any other mortal man.

      2. Note: it says man came to be a living soul not that he was provided or endowed with a living soul.
      C – How can you interpret "blew into his nostrils" from the dictionary, Endow – to give, the act of giving. Receive – to get, to have given.

      3. When the male and female cells combine they both begin to form life as we know it. According to Genesis a fetus or infant is not endowed with a living soul but it became a living soul when both cells were combined, of course this is still an astonishing miracle.
      C – I don't think the bible mentions anything like this in this third paragraph, but using science to prove a point when we do not know at what point we receive a soul.

      4. In your statement you also mentioned that when we die our soul departs, well this takes us back to Genesis 2:7 but also Ecclesiastes 9:5 that states “the living are conscious that they will die, but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten”. Psalm 146:4 says “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground, in that day his thoughts do perish”. Please do not confuse “his spirit goes out” as if it were something departing from the body.
      C – the living are conscious that they will die, but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, [my interpretation] The living know that they will die at some future date, and to be dead the body stops functioning, Psalms – says “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground, [my interpretation] without a soul The body stops functioning and the body will be buried, to seperate body and soul something must leave and as there is still a body it must be the soul that has gone, Dictionary – Gone – Go, lost, Departed, Dead,

      4. The Bible refers to the spirit as who we are a living soul.
      C – yes, now we are talking about spirit or soul, call it whichever, Adam was created as a pure living soul with an uncorruptable body, which became corrupt due to sin,the only other pure living soul I think would be Our Lord Jesus, and although unblemished with sin God allowed his son to be sacrificed to atone for the sins of mankind. As for Lazarus his body had not decayed, and the miracle Jesus performed was perhaps the return of his soul.

      5. like many others that were resurrected at the time, not one of them mentioned that they were at another life. You would think that at least one person would of recorded on the Scriptures that they were next to God when they died or confirming a place and time. Maybe even possibly be upset or disappointed for returning to earth when they had a perfect spiritual body up in the heavens. This proves that the Bible teachings are correct and we must be very careful to receive teachings from high counsels or priests without confirming their statements with the Holy Scriptures. My intent is not to offend you or anyone reading this article but to pass on the good news as truthfully as possible. Be well and be in peace.
      C – we are given Eyes, Ears, and a Brain to reason with but in paragraph 5 you seem to be looking for sureties, proof and signs when the bible tells us to beware of the leaven of the pharisees. While it is beneficial to receive teaching from the scriptures, I believe we must use our own intelligence and discern what those scriptures are saying.

      ps. I don't think you get the gist of what I am saying, which is, is this a war between God and Satan, Good and Evil.
      God Bless
      Charles

      Hi jwas1914, nice to here from you, My comments are some of my own personal thoughts and may not be exactly as the bible says, I try to understand the bible and to what it is trying to tell us.
      A few things you bring to my attention,

      1, God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.
      C – when God blew into adams nostrils was that the exact time he recieved his soul and his body became alive,
      and to be a living soul, uncorrupted, that is most likely true, but after sinning through temptation did he become a corrupt body with a living soul and he would surely die. So Adam became just like any other mortal man.

      2. Note: it says man came to be a living soul not that he was provided or endowed with a living soul.
      C – How can you interpret "blew into his nostrils" from the dictionary, Endow – to give, the act of giving. Receive – to get, to have given.

      3. When the male and female cells combine they both begin to form life as we know it. According to Genesis a fetus or infant is not endowed with a living soul but it became a living soul when both cells were combined, of course this is still an astonishing miracle.
      C – I don't think the bible mentions anything like this in this third paragraph, but using science to prove a point when we do not know at what point we receive a soul.

      4. In your statement you also mentioned that when we die our soul departs, well this takes us back to Genesis 2:7 but also Ecclesiastes 9:5 that states “the living are conscious that they will die, but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten”. Psalm 146:4 says “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground, in that day his thoughts do perish”. Please do not confuse “his spirit goes out” as if it were something departing from the body.
      C – the living are conscious that they will die, but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, [my interpretation] The living know that they will die at some future date, and to be dead the body stops functioning, Psalms – says “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground, [my interpretation] without a soul The body stops functioning and the body will be buried, to seperate body and soul something must leave and as there is still a body it must be the soul that has gone, Dictionary – Gone – Go, lost, Departed, Dead,

      4. The Bible refers to the spirit as who we are a living soul.
      C – yes, now we are talking about spirit or soul, call it whichever, Adam was created as a pure living soul with an uncorruptable body, which became corrupt due to sin,the only other pure living soul I think would be Our Lord Jesus, and although unblemished with sin God allowed his son to be sacrificed to atone for the sins of mankind. As for Lazarus his body had not decayed, and the miracle Jesus performed was perhaps the return of his soul.

      5. like many others that were resurrected at the time, not one of them mentioned that they were at another life. You would think that at least one person would of recorded on the Scriptures that they were next to God when they died or confirming a place and time. Maybe even possibly be upset or disappointed for returning to earth when they had a perfect spiritual body up in the heavens. This proves that the Bible teachings are correct and we must be very careful to receive teachings from high counsels or priests without confirming their statements with the Holy Scriptures. My intent is not to offend you or anyone reading this article but to pass on the good news as truthfully as possible. Be well and be in peace.
      C – we are given Eyes, Ears, and a Brain to reason with but in paragraph 5 you seem to be looking for sureties, proof and signs when the bible tells us to beware of the leaven of the pharisees. While it is beneficial to receive teaching from the scriptures, I believe we must use our own intelligence and discern what those scriptures are saying.

      ps. I don't think you get the gist of what I am saying, which is, is this a war between God and Satan, Good and Evil.
      God Bless
      Charles

      May 29, 2011 at 8:23 am |
  20. Evan

    It is quite true: faith comes first. All the evidence in the world will not convince a non-believer to become Christian (Luke 16:31). However, "faith" is not a leap into the dark, but a step out of it into a bright room illuminated by the light of evidence.

    Atheists: God loves you, and wants you to be saved (John 3:16). He recognizes our need for help, which is why He sent His Son to take the punishment for our sins. However, God is just, and desires to get rid of sin, but He wants to get rid of your sin, not you. Don't believe me? Read the Gospels.

    Christians: God has no use for people who claim to be Christian but are not. If we really were Christian, we would try with our full heart to do as Christ said, which is to love others. A Christian should not preach to Atheists, but teach. Most Atheists are very intelligent people who just lack the strength to trust God.

    Atheists: to you, God seems very evil. However, this is not true. God is both loving and just. Some Christians drop the "just" part, creating a false image of God, and worship this. You, my friends, do the opposite; you drop the "loving" part and refuse to worship (or even believe) this false image of God.

    Christians: Don't argue with Atheists. Is this because they will win every time? No, but because winning a debate hardly ever brings an Atheist closer to Christ. If you win a debate, but push a non-believer farther from faith, you've failed.

    In short, Christians and Atheists should be nice to each other. We should attempt to understand each other's positions, recognize our differences, and be friends.

    May 27, 2011 at 7:56 pm |
    • KingdomCome

      Wisdom comes softly

      May 27, 2011 at 8:01 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I just have to ask: What sins? You say I'm being saved from sins, but you are also the one calling me a sinner. Can you see why perhaps that isn't a compelling argument? I am not the best person in the world, but I'm not a bad person, but here you are telling me I'm so awful that a man was tortured to death so that I could avoid the consequences of that awfulness. I'm sorry. I just don't buy it. If I am such a terrible person, I should face the consequences of my actions and be punished, but the truth is I'm not a terrible person. I don't deserve eternal punishment, and I think you are a very rude person if you think I do.

      May 27, 2011 at 10:00 pm |
    • KingdomCome

      @tallulah13
      Are WE good enough to judge ourselves? What about the insane person in prison who believes he's innocent? He thinks he's a good person, nor has he done anything wrong in his mind... who are we to judge ourselves?
      Just wondering if that's a safe ideology to hold...

      May 27, 2011 at 10:14 pm |
    • tallulah13

      You are not ent.itled to make a set of arbitrary rules then condemn me because I don't follow them. You have no jurisdiction. All you know of me is what you read on these boards. You are not qualified to judge me. I believe society is a capable judge of human intent and action. If any action of mine hurts others, I fully expect to be held accountable. Humans are social creatures and will generally endeavor to protect the well-being and peace of the "collective."

      Morality is not exclusive to christianity. In fact, the bible can be interpreted in any way the user decides, and in many cases has been used to harm people. The bible has been used to defend slavery, bigotry and bias. In the city where I live, it is being used to deprive children of health care (See the "Followers of Christ" cult). The bible isn't worthy of any position of authority because a) There is no proof of it's divine origin and B) It has as many interpretations as it has readers.

      May 27, 2011 at 11:13 pm |
    • KingdomCome

      Whoa! Society is a good judge? Really? LET ME TELL YOU HOW WELL SOCIETY CAN JUDGE!!!! I had a girl that I taught confide in me that her dad was physically abusing her.... when she was 9 years old... Dad didn't go to jail because he admitted his guilt.... instead our society thought it would be a great idea for him to recieve counseling and go back into the very house where he was abusive... guess what? SEVEN years later he's doing the same S%@$# to someone else.... and guess what I'm being subpoenaed to testify.... HOW'S THAT FOR "SOCIETY JUDGING" Our society judges so well that every night on Nancy Grace we get to watch murders, rapists etc. continue to do the the same ole same ole... I PRAY THAT MY GOD IS JUST when these evil people meet their maker!!!!

      May 28, 2011 at 12:04 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      It is quite true: faith comes first. All the evidence in the world will not convince a non-believer to become Christian (Luke 16:31). However, "faith" is not a leap into the dark, but a step out of it into a bright room illuminated by the light of evidence."
      -This attempt to first affirm that the statement that follows the "assertion of truth", (without a rational basis), ie "It is quite true" is NOT true simply because you say so. (As someone said yesterday :"The moon is made of green cheese". It ain't so, just 'cuz you say those words).

      "Atheists: God loves you, and wants you to be saved (John 3:16). He recognizes our need for help, which is why He sent His Son to take the punishment for our sins. However, God is just, and desires to get rid of sin, but He wants to get rid of your sin, not you. Don't believe me? Read the Gospels."
      -One could not be an "atheist", (and one of many brands of believers), and yet not buy one word of these ideas. Again saying "God loves you", doesn't mean that is reality. You offer no support for that. Love is an anthropomorphic concept, which you project onto a "supernatural" being. If it's really a deity, why would it have human emotions ? If the deity wants us to be "saved", why doesn't it simply just go ahead and "save" us. Why would it set up this convoluted "payback" requirement, in order to satisfy some sort of angry vengeful self imposed "debt" scheme, culminating, (in your world), with "it's offspring having to pay the bill". If it's all powerful, why not just say "oh skip it, the debt is cancelled" ? I actually DON'T believe you, and I HAVE read the gospels. The gospels actually don't really say much about about your payback scheme, certainly the "son" in question never claimed he was the payor, in the gospels. That may be later overlay by others in the cult, but it's not a claim he is recorded as having made for himself. You need to be specific, rather than just make such a broad sweeping claim, for which you offer no support, except the initial unsupported assertion.

      "Christians: God has no use for people who claim to be Christian but are not. If we really were Christian, we would try with our full heart to do as Christ said, which is to love others. A Christian should not preach to Atheists, but teach. Most Atheists are very intelligent people who just lack the strength to trust God.
      -You really have no idea what any deity has a use for, (or not), even though you imply that you do. Who told you you could speak for It. If it has no use for atheists, why would it have, in your world, created them ? Who told you that you should be teaching others, ? How and where did that occur ? Some atheists may "just lack the strength to trust God", but that's only one of many possible conclusions. And why would they ever "trust" what they thought was a fantasy ? If they did, they would be considered as candidates for commitment, (into a psychiatric facility).

      "Atheists: to you, God seems very evil. However, this is not true. God is both loving and just. Some Christians drop the "just" part, creating a false image of God, and worship this. You, my friends, do the opposite; you drop the "loving" part and refuse to worship (or even believe) this false image of God."
      -Again,saying so, does not make it so, and is a fantastically broad sweeping over-simplification. No supporting evidence offered. The deity does not "seem evil". I have never asked one, but I would imagine they don't posit a non-existent being is anything, either good or evil. The IDEA of a deity is not evil, just ridiculous, especially in light of the occurrences in Missouri in the past week. "and refuse to worship (or even believe) this false image of God." Actually many nonbelievers I know seriously wish they could believe and worship. They don't "refuse to". That simply is not an option, because it's intellectually dishonest, and the brain that they, in you world, were created with, won't allow it.

      "Christians: Don't argue with Atheists. Is this because they will win every time? No, but because winning a debate hardly ever brings an Atheist closer to Christ. If you win a debate, but push a non-believer farther from faith, you've failed."
      -Can't tell which "side", (which of course is a fantastic over-simplification), you think won. It appears you're conceding your point ?

      "In short, Christians and Atheists should be nice to each other. We should attempt to understand each other's positions, recognize our differences, and be friends."
      -Agree.

      The only interesting question for me here is why you posted this. When you talk like this, basically to yourself, and say these kinds of things, does it make you feel better, or what exactly is your motivation for this sort of thing ? Was this a "prayer" ? Were you trying to convince yourself these things made sense ?

      May 28, 2011 at 12:23 am |
    • KingdomCome

      @ BB
      "Actually many nonbelievers I know seriously wish they could believe and worship. They don't "refuse to". That simply is not an option, because it's intellectually dishonest, and the brain that they, in you world, were created with, won't allow it."

      Some of the posts I read (almost) move me to jealousy at the intellectual thinking, but I must say I am moved to tears when I read the above statement.
      Have you asked yourself? What is better? To be simple minded and easily led? Or extremely bright and reject truth? But we could argue truth, right? Is it a curse to be brilliant or dim?

      May 28, 2011 at 12:34 am |
    • tallulah13

      If you feel so strongly, do something useful and try to change the law. Don't wait for your imaginary friend to do it for you, because it won't happen. Grow up and do something yourself. If you are satisfied that something else will mete out justice after death, then all you are doing is ignoring the problem and hoping it goes away. How useless is that? Like it or not, you are part of society. If you don't like what is happening, stop complaining and do something. That's the whole point.

      May 28, 2011 at 12:42 am |
    • KingdomCome

      @
      Point taken... last time I checked a "supoena" requires a testimony... so I guess I'll do my part as a member of society and tell the truth.... oh wait....
      The tricky truth? hmmm.... is there an absolute truth that I should swear by in the courtroom?
      Oh yeah! I swear on the Bible to tell the whole truth...hmmm...
      As a member of God's Kingdom... this is how I fight the injustice... by following as God leds me to fight against evil that preys on children....

      May 28, 2011 at 1:20 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      @KC
      Thank you, sincerely, for the compliment.
      Something you said struck me as the best thing I've heard here all week : "Wisdom comes softly".
      I guess I should remember that.

      May 28, 2011 at 4:01 am |
    • KC

      Thank you, BB! That was sweet of you. 🙂

      May 28, 2011 at 4:12 am |
    • tallulah13

      KC, your arguement makes no sense. You don't have to testify to change the world. If a law is proven to be ineffective, it can be changed.

      For instance, in the area where I live, there is a christian cult (google "Followers of Christ") who believe that the only cure for illness is prayer. If it were only the adults who shunned medical care, I doubt anyone would mind. However, they deny care to their children and as a result, they have a cemetery full of children who died from easily curable health issues. In the past, they used a law that cited freedom of religion as a defense. However, the good people of my state (christians, jews, atheists, agnostics - doubtless even pagans, muslims and wiccans - were very vocal. Public outrage was pretty much across the board.) were angry enough that our lawmakers took notice and changed the law. These cultists are no longer exempt from child-endangerment prosecution. See? Society acted in the best interest of it's weakest members. No bible necessary. No afterlife necessary. No god necessary. Just good old human outrage.

      I'm sorry that you need a book of iron-age fables to give you a moral comp.ass. The problem is your fables are used to hurt other people. The "good book" has been used to defend slavery, to enforce the treatment of women as property, to kill people who were "different" (because they might be witches!) and even now it's being used to excuse discrimination and even violence against g-ays and les-bians. I find your bible to be a handbook for hateful behavior, and I think that the world would be a better place if people looked up from it's pages to see the world for themselves. Treat others as you wish to be treated. It's as simple as that.

      May 28, 2011 at 4:51 pm |
    • Muneef

      These are few verses of what's God has said in the Holy Quran about Jesus & Mother;

      [3:47] She said, "My Lord, how can I have a son, when no man has touched me?" He said, "GOD thus creates whatever He wills. To have anything done, He simply says to it, `Be,' and it is.
      ---–
      [4:171] O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity." You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master.
      ----
      Mary
      [19:16] Mention in the scripture Mary. She isolated herself from her family, into an eastern location.

      [19:17] While a barrier separated her from them, we sent to her our Spirit. He went to her in the form of a human being.

      [19:18] She said, "I seek refuge in the Most Gracious, that you may be righteous."

      [19:19] He said, "I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you a pure son."

      [19:20] She said, "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me; I have never been unchaste."

      [19:21] He said, "Thus said your Lord, `It is easy for Me. We will render him a sign for the people, and mercy from us. This is a predestined matter.' "
      ----
      [23:50] We made the son of Mary and his mother a sign, and we gave them refuge on a mesa with food and drink.
      ----
      Jesus: Another Example

      [43:57] When the son of Mary was cited as an example, your people disregarded it.

      [43:58] They said, "Is it better to worship our gods, or to worship him?" They said this only to argue with you. Indeed, they are people who have joined the opposition.

      [43:59] He was no more than a servant whom we blessed, and we sent him as an example for the Children of Israel.

      [43:60] If we willed, we could have made you angels who colonize and reproduce on earth.

      Jesus and the End of the World*

      [43:61] He is to serve as a marker for knowing the end of the world, so you can no longer harbor any doubt about it. You shall follow Me; this is the right path.

      [43:62] Let not the devil repel you; he is your most ardent enemy.

      [43:63] When Jesus went with the proofs, he said, "I bring to you wisdom, and to clarify some of the matters in which you dispute. You shall reverence GOD and obey me.

      [43:64] "GOD is my Lord and your Lord, you shall worship Him alone. This is the right path."
      ----–
      Deterioration of Religion

      [57:27] Subsequent to them, we sent our messengers. We sent Jesus the son of Mary, and we gave him the Injeel (Gospel), and we placed in the hearts of his followers kindness and mercy. But they invented hermitism which we never decreed for them. All we asked them to do was to uphold the commandments approved by GOD. But they did not uphold the message as they should have. Consequently, we gave those who believed among them their recompense, while many of them were wicked.

      [57:28] O you who believe, you shall reverence GOD and believe in His messenger. He will then grant you double the reward from His mercy, endow you with light to guide you, and forgive you. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

      [57:29] Thus, the followers of previous scripture should know that they have not monopolized GOD's mercy and grace, and that all grace is in GOD's hand. He bestows it upon whomever He wills. GOD is Possessor of Infinite Grace.
      ----–

      May 28, 2011 at 8:22 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.