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Bernice King, MLK's daughter, leaves Eddie Long's church
The Rev. Bernice King shares the pulpit with Bishop Eddie Long at New Birth Missionary Church in this file photo.
May 31st, 2011
06:30 PM ET

Bernice King, MLK's daughter, leaves Eddie Long's church

By John Blake, CNN

(CNN) - The Rev. Bernice King, daughter of the legendary civil rights leader, is leaving an Atlanta megachurch that’s been rocked by a sex scandal involving its preacher.

King’s announcement came a week after Bishop Eddie Long, senior pastor of New Birth Missionary Church, settled out of court with four young men who filed lawsuits against him last year claiming he coerced them into sexual relationships.

King said her announcement had nothing to do with Long’s legal battles. She said Tuesday she was “tremendously blessed” by Long’s ministry but that now she’s going start her own.

“I’m going to launch a ministry. I’m not calling it a church right now,” King said during an interview with Atlanta radio station Praise 102.5. “What God is showing me doesn’t look like what people are accustomed to.”

King said her ministry would “educate, empower and equip” a new generation of church leaders, and she promised more details in the future. King had been an elder at New Birth for eight years.

During her interview, she said it was incorrect to say that she had “resigned” from New Birth because she was never on the church’s staff.

“I occasionally worked in the pulpit and preached, but that was the extent of it,” she said. "When I came to New Birth, I came for a season.”

King’s stay at New Birth was punctuated by controversy.

In 2004, she and Long led a march to the Atlanta tomb of her father, the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., calling for a constitutional ban on gay marriage.

The march was publicly condemned by some members of her father's inner circle. One of her father's closest advisers was gay, and his widow, Coretta Scott King, was a vocal supporter of gay rights.

Bernice King also was criticized for holding the 2006 funeral of her mother at New Birth instead of at Ebenezer Baptist Church, the Atlanta institution once led by her father. Critics said Long’s embrace of the prosperity gospel contradicted the emphasis on social justice that her father preached.

The Rev. Raphael Warnock, senior pastor of Ebenezer, said Bernice King ultimately will be known for more than her association with Long.

“This might be for her a moment of spiritual renewal and serious reflection about what her next steps might be,” Warnock said. “Rev. King has been through a season of transition in many ways.”

The Rev. Gerald L. Durley, senior pastor of Providence Missionary Baptist Church in Atlanta, said King won’t be tainted by her association with Long.

“New Birth was a bridge,” he said. “I’ve never seen anybody build a house on a bridge. A bridge takes her to another destination.”

During her radio interview, King said she had recently talked with Long about leaving his church.

“He gave me his blessings and supported me,” she said.

Whatever she chooses to do next, Durley said, King will bring many strengths: intelligence, humility and empathy forged by her own unique upbringing.

“She had to go through so much suffering at a young age,” Durley said. “She’s been in the spotlight. She’s expected not just to be Martin Luther King, but to pick up the mantle.”

- CNN Writer

Filed under: Celebrity • Christianity • Pastors

soundoff (276 Responses)
  1. Eli King

    Leadership in the ministery is very difficult to handle, and is not for everyone. It is easy to critisize these men and women of God when were not in their position. I just prayfor their strength in Christ to do God's will.

    June 1, 2011 at 11:25 am |
  2. Reality

    Once again, the Long and King fiascos simply add more credence for the following:

    Recognizing the flaws, follies and frauds in the foundations of Islam, Judaism and Christianity by the "bowers", kneelers" and "pew peasants" will converge these religions into some simple rules of life. No koran, bible, clerics, nuns, monks, imams, evangelicals, ayatollahs, rabbis, professors of religion or priests needed or desired.

    Ditto for houses of "worthless worship" aka mosques, churches, basilicas, cathedrals, temples and synagogues.

    June 1, 2011 at 11:08 am |
  3. JohnR

    Well, the danged fool who thought it would be funny to forge Adelina's and HeavenSent's handles, we are all now reaping what you in your infinite wisdom decided to sow. If CNN doesn't start a handle registry, it may soon become totally pointless to be here.

    June 1, 2011 at 10:47 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      JohnR, it is becoming clear that the more we all fight, the more folks post, the more traffic comes through the site, ... the more advertisers will pony up to have their ads on the belief blog.

      Why would they consider trying to manage this group. They have nothing to lose and if someone post under some one else's name and a flame war begins or continues it will just increase traffic and put more money in.

      June 1, 2011 at 11:16 am |
    • JohnR

      You haven't already figured out that it is pointless?

      June 1, 2011 at 11:22 am |
  4. TG

    In the first century congregation that Jesus established and went into operation on the day of Pentecost 33 C.E., no woman was allowed to serve in any position. The apostle Paul wrote that "if any man is reaching out for an office of overseer, he is desirous of a fine work" (1 Tim 3:1) and he further wrote that "I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence" (1 Tim 2:12) with regard to the position of oversight.

    It is obvious that both Bernice King and Eddie Long failed to do their "homework" when reading the Bible. Thus, only men were could receive the privilege of serving as an "elder", "older man", or "overseer" within the Christian congregation.

    Jesus used a Greek word, sy·ni´e·mi, meaning literally "to mentally put the pieces together" several times regarding the "kingdom" at Matthew 13.(Strong's # 4920) Both Bernice King and Eddie Long (and not surprisingly) cannot discern or "put the pieces together" of what the Bible really teaches, like putting a puzzle together to complete the picture. This is also true of all the churches.

    June 1, 2011 at 10:03 am |
    • JohnQuest

      TG, As I read your comment, it seems to me that apostle Paul thought (assumed, believed) that women should not serve. What does your religion teaches you about what Jesus/God said about women serving?

      June 1, 2011 at 10:10 am |
    • JohnR

      Jesus spoke Aramaic. What's in the gospels is at best a translation of what someone says they remember him saying. At worst, it's pure fabrication by later writers.

      June 1, 2011 at 10:29 am |
    • Nonimus

      @TG,
      Didn't he also say, "...women will be saved through childbearing..." (1 tim 2:15)
      Interesting, salvation by procreation.

      June 1, 2011 at 10:39 am |
    • Stephanie

      What a crock! The prophet, Jesus, during his ministry had female disciples who preached to other women of the Good News in a time when society dictated that women were though of as lower than men. Paul never knew Christ in life, and obviously had a distorted and inhibited view of women. There is not one word that is ascribed to Jesus that demands that women be subservient or "lower" in class to men. His admiration and affection for The Magdalene is a good example. She is one of the few disciples that actually "got it" and from then on, women have shown their spirituality and closeness to the Spirit. Men and women are equal in God's eyes and each has their own spiritual gifts. No one is above another.

      June 1, 2011 at 10:45 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      Actually TC, there was no "first century congregation". There were many different groups, among which were the "Jerusalem" group, (led by Jesus' brother James), the "Roman" camp, said to have been led by Peter, and the "Pauline" camp. They were clearly all fighting with each other for control, (have you not read "Acts" ?). In these groups women held differing positions, including deacon, (and some scholars think they may have also been presbyters, depending on that group's att-itudes towards women). In one of the groups, women were perceived as a threat, as they gained positons of power, (thus the symbolic "demonization" of Mary of Magdala as a wh-ore, even though the gospels never actually say that she was).
      Saul of Tarsus, (Paul) was called, but not actually an "apostle". He never claimed to have heard or met Jesus, (except in that incident on the road to Damascus, which I will not comment on further).
      The writer(s) to whom the texts of "Mathew' were attributed also never saw or heard Jesus. The earliest they were "written" was 20 years later. ow much do YOU exactly remember what someone said, 20 years ago, word for word ? They actually had no idea what words he actually used, and since he spoke Aramaic, and as was pointed out elsewhere, they did not write in Aramaic, at best, the texts were "interpretations".

      June 1, 2011 at 1:42 pm |
  5. JohnQuest

    CW, Coming from a none religious background as I do, I don't understand why you (people with religious faith) object to g ay marriage, if possible can you please explain it to me?

    June 1, 2011 at 9:54 am |
    • Dave From Philly

      The Bible calls it an abmination when 2 men lay together (old testasment). Unfortunately, most are quick to point out this sin and not the others that we do. The only sin that cannot be forgiving is to deny GOD.

      June 1, 2011 at 9:59 am |
    • JohnQuest

      Dave From Philly, thanks. But does this mean that the only objection to g ay marriage is on religious grounds? Are there no other objections to g ay marriage?

      June 1, 2011 at 10:03 am |
    • barabbas2010

      The real question is "what gives you the authority to object on any grounds"? It is none of your business what personal relationships other people enjoy.

      June 1, 2011 at 10:09 am |
    • barabbas2010

      are you familiar with this phrase? " . . . all men are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights; among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". Who are you to alienate others from their pursuit of happiness?

      June 1, 2011 at 10:13 am |
    • Dave From Philly

      I can't answer that question. As a believer I am on neither side of this debate. I have my own sins I must atone for everyday.

      June 1, 2011 at 10:15 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      Dave, I am not sure about that scripture because it does appear in the old testament. We are under the old covenant and Jesus sorta did the he who is without sin part.

      I am not 100% behind the Gay marriage idea but part of me wonders if there are other things we could be doing as Christians that can be more on the path of following the teachings of Jesus. I just do not see that path taking out or going after Gays.

      I look at Eddie Longs crusade and marches against Gay marriage.... the man could have thrown himself into other things such as problems at the schools, the homeless, the ones behind bars, the list goes on and on. Instead, he feels that he has to go and spend the time and church resources to go after Gays in the community?

      June 1, 2011 at 11:25 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      whoops... we are NOT under the old covenant... 🙂 Sorry about that.

      June 1, 2011 at 11:26 am |
    • JohnQuest

      Mark from Middle River, Although I do not consider myself under any covenant, I do agree with. We have far bigger issues to resolve. G ay marriage is Not an issue for me but it is an issue for others.

      You are a wise person (as far as I can tell) perhaps you know the answer, other then religious objections, are there any other objections to g ay marriage or g ays in general?

      June 1, 2011 at 11:39 am |
    • Mark from Middle River

      JohnQ – First do not call me wise, I am just another poor guy just trying to get through life.

      For the non-religious reasons one might have against Gay marriage I am not sure of. If you just spend time on the internet you will occasionally see some excuses folks put up. Once I was looking at a blog for this African America lesbian that believed in Lesbian marriage but not Gay marriage citing the cheating hearts of all who carried XY chromosomes. Then there will always be the "I am cool with it... but no way would one of my children ever ever ever be gay, so its not my problem".

      The question to Dave though is that you stated you had your own sins to atone for. That is a tricky thing to say because it is a back handed way to say that you believe being Gay is a sin.

      For me, things are complicated but at the same time simple. God was quoted in the Bible saying that he knew thee while thee were in the womb. That covered the pro-life position for me. Jesus saying cast the first stone thee without sin covers my Anti-capital punishment. There are other scriptures in the new testament that can cover both against and giving it a pass. It is just how you interpret the scripture.

      On Gay marriage my view is that I have more in my life to deal with than protesting Gays and Gay Marriage. Geez, go out, pick up trash on the highway, help at the local school.... etc. The thing is that with this story is how my mother and her friends (60+) ... knew about this story way way before anything broke about it. That Eddie just might have been Gay himself all along.

      June 1, 2011 at 12:25 pm |
    • Zeb

      I agree that we should not call Mark wise. 😛

      June 1, 2011 at 1:29 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      @Dave from Philly
      I thought he said he came to free you guys from the law ?

      June 1, 2011 at 1:45 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      @Colin
      You here anywhere ? You wanna do it, or should I ? (....my 10 reasons....) 😈

      June 1, 2011 at 1:48 pm |
    • JohnQuest

      Mark from Middle River, thanks for your reply, I can't think of any reason to object to g ays or g ay marriage. I agree with you, there are more important things to worry about than who someone (across the country, state, city or house) loves or shares themselves with.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:23 pm |
    • Free

      Dave From Philly
      "The Bible calls it an abmination when 2 men lay together (old testasment)."
      Eating a lobster is also called an abomination in the OT, but does that mean that we should make it illegal?

      Point is Christians all pick and choose what laws they think are the important ones that God 'really' wants them to follow. All the kosher law is thrown out from the OT and the anti-gay stuff is right amongst that stuff. In I Corinthians Paul preaches against gays (supposedly) just before he preaches against women taking any leadership roles in church, like King has. The cherry tree tends to keep much of its fruit, my friend.

      June 1, 2011 at 11:53 pm |
  6. Futon Torpedo

    It took her this "long" to leave?

    June 1, 2011 at 9:51 am |
  7. James

    Rev. King has shown poor judgment for quite some time. I don't imagine this new move will be any different. People seem to assign her some special attributes simply because of her relationship to MLK. Being related by blood doesn't mean you're genetically predisposed to being of similar character.

    June 1, 2011 at 9:42 am |
    • Gorjon

      Wow! This is a front seat assignation of a person's character. What would be better... She stay under the questionable leadership of Bishop Long, or follow, what she describes, is God's leading. Be careful you may also fall from your perch like the "good" Bishop Long. Pray for them both and if my sister lacks wisdom, may she find it in her next home.

      June 1, 2011 at 9:56 am |
  8. john316

    It's alwasys about the money.....make sure you have enough, Mr. Long.....( no pun intended) ...for your next march on Washington to ban gay marriage....but then you might already be in a gay marriage by then....sorry. All these cults are the same.....Mormon, Catholic, Evangelical, Scientology etc....of all the things the "Bible" supposedly says are wrong to do or be ...they focus on this issue.....hasn't someone wondered why? That should be the real question people are asking themselves. Remember....marriage is till death do you part...not till you get tired of someone or upset about some weight gain...Anyone who is divorced and living with someone or remarried is really an adulterer....right? I don't seem to see the same focus on that issue...why is that? Could it be there are so many divorced people that there wouldn't be any church ( I mean cult) members left? Hmmmmm........might be. These cults need to get a new issue to focus on...like helping people...all people.....I think Jesus would agree.....

    June 1, 2011 at 9:36 am |
    • barabbas2010

      It's always about both wealth and power. If Jesus hadn't challenged the authority of the Cohanim and the tribe of Levi he might have lived a long and happy life.

      June 1, 2011 at 9:45 am |
    • Stephanie

      I would recommend people read the "Conversations With God" books. After reading these I have felt a strong connection and re-awakening of faith-common sense faith that reassures me and makes me think that I have missed out on a true relationship with my creator. Many of the "Thou Shalt Nots" are man made not God made. Society shapes religions and makes the rules because of a desire to own or control. God simply waits for us to find Him/Her again in friendship and love.

      June 1, 2011 at 10:51 am |
  9. Dave From Philly

    Shame that so many pose as people of faith and their only interest is to make themselves rich or live a very comfortable life. Organized religion is just another way of enslaving people.

    June 1, 2011 at 9:34 am |
  10. Preacherman

    When water dries, fish eats fish!

    June 1, 2011 at 9:28 am |
    • barabbas2010

      man ! that is way deep. where can i get me some of that dry water?

      June 1, 2011 at 9:33 am |
  11. The Prince of Common Cents

    No to gay marriage. No to gay preachers. No to closet gay preachers. No to baptist opportunist whos father was a great man of peace. No to prosperity ministries.....

    June 1, 2011 at 9:23 am |
    • barabbas2010

      come on prince !!! it's time for you to come out of the closet too isn't it?

      June 1, 2011 at 9:30 am |
    • Davidloc

      So no to gays , no to black gay preachers and no to churches that aren't like yours. Very christian of you , you must be proud of keeping up these lofty standards even in these difficult times.

      June 1, 2011 at 9:44 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      pssttt.
      That sorta leaves no one left. 😯

      June 1, 2011 at 1:52 pm |
    • Fordham Jock

      @Bucky Ball
      Smart a-s.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:09 pm |
  12. louis

    EVERY MEMBER OF THAT "CULT" SHOULD DROP OUT OR BE AN ACCOMPLICE NEXT TIME THE PERVERT STRIKES....

    June 1, 2011 at 9:18 am |
  13. NS

    He is a joke and mockery, she is leaving because she doesn't want to be associated with the guilty.......Settling is Guilt! Time to come out of the closet Long!

    June 1, 2011 at 9:16 am |
    • dave

      Bernice may be King's daughter, but she is doing nothing to preserve his legacy. She has taken the path of holier-than-thou hate. No one should care what she is doing.

      June 1, 2011 at 9:22 am |
  14. The Dude

    Religion is poison.

    June 1, 2011 at 9:14 am |
    • joe

      ...poisoned by people like you...

      June 1, 2011 at 9:28 am |
    • barabbas2010

      actually religion is more of a psychic anaesthetic than anything. it allows believers to carry on without the need to think or worry about the future.

      June 1, 2011 at 9:32 am |
    • C

      There is nothing wrong with religion; if it it used as a vehicle to bring people together. It's scoundrel's like Long and many others who use it for their own selfish benefit.

      June 1, 2011 at 10:03 am |
  15. Cal

    Jesus likes to wear a tuxedo tee shirt.

    June 1, 2011 at 9:14 am |
  16. barabbas2010

    it is simply astounding how many theists think their belief system gives them the moral authority to tell others how to live their lives.

    June 1, 2011 at 9:13 am |
  17. Cal

    Jesus was a mischievous badger.

    June 1, 2011 at 9:13 am |
    • SeanNJ

      And he wore a tuxedo t-shirt.

      June 1, 2011 at 10:11 am |
    • Fluffy the Gerbil of Doom

      Dang. Thought I spotted another rodent. It's a weasel. Oh well.

      June 1, 2011 at 5:20 pm |
  18. Patricia Moore

    Innocent men don't settle for 15 million............

    June 1, 2011 at 9:09 am |
    • barabbas2010

      well said. it seems obvious that eddie long is as gay as little richard. it is a shame he can't make himself come out of the closet.

      June 1, 2011 at 9:15 am |
  19. JJ

    Jesus said, “Seek and you shall find.” I did seek and yes I did find, but it wasn't Jesus I found. It was logic, reason, and life without confusing religion. It was true freedom.

    June 1, 2011 at 9:08 am |
    • Mikle J

      That's howI found true freedom which lead me to reserch ancient history. The truth will set your mind free.

      June 1, 2011 at 10:06 am |
    • Stephanie

      Good for you. There can be faith without religion. No man or woman is without problems or issues. There is no "sin", only some peoples "perception" of wrong. If we paid more attention to trying to avoid hurting others and less attention to what others do that we "think" of as wrong, we'd all be better off.

      June 1, 2011 at 10:56 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      @Peace2all
      No they aren't. I posted them, and forgot to copy them. Colin had copied them, and gave them back to us when my friend/housemate, (Fordham Jock) asked if anyone had saved them.
      Nitpicking I know, but I would not post something that didn't originate with me, and NOT give credit.
      Cheers. 😕

      June 1, 2011 at 2:42 pm |
  20. CW

    I have to say...I agree...with Long and King...NO G-AY MARRIAGE!!!

    June 1, 2011 at 9:06 am |
    • JJ

      Why does gay marriage threaten you CW?

      June 1, 2011 at 9:09 am |
    • barabbas2010

      . . and why would that be any of your business unless you want to be in a gay marriage?

      June 1, 2011 at 9:11 am |
    • civiloutside

      I'm not entirely certain why some Christians are so vehement that gay marriage must be illegal. Making it illegal doesn't save any souls. After all, gay people who refrain from ho-mose-xual activity because it's illegal, but don't believe in your version of god, are still going to burn just like those who do engage in ho-mose-xual activity, right? Whereas gay people who refrain from such activity because they are obeying your version of god can still choose to do so whether gay marriage is legal or not. So making it illegal only serves to make people who don't share your religious convictions miserable, without serving any genuine religious purpose.

      June 1, 2011 at 9:41 am |
    • barabbas2010

      those who protest the loudest are always the most deeply challenged. they fear that if they don't condemn it the world may suspect that they secretly desire it.

      June 1, 2011 at 9:57 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      CW will shortly haul out a passage from Corinthians to justify his ho.mophobia.
      Here is some pre-emptive food for though regarding that passage:
      In the original Greek, the terms used in Corinthian's list of vices that are sometimes translated as "hom-ose.xual" are 'malakoi' and 'ar.senkoitai'.
      AR.SENKOTAI – Has been translated as "abusers of themselves with mankind" (KJV), "se.xual per.verts" (RSV), "sodo.mites" (NKJV, NAB, JB, NRSV), those "who are guilty of hom.ose.xual per.version" (NEB), "men who lie with males" (Lamsa), "behaves like a hom.ose.xual" (CEV), "men who have se.xual relations with other men" (NCV), and "ho.mose.xual offenders" (NIV). The New American Bible (Roman Catholic) translated ar.senokoitai as "practicing hom.ose.xuals". After much protest, the editors agreed to delete this term and replace it with "sodo.mites" in subsequent editions.
      'Ar.senokoitai' referred to male prosti.tutes for Paul and Christians until the 4th century.
      MALAKOI – Literally means "soft" or "males who are soft". This word has been translated as "ef.feminate" (KJV), "hom.ose.xuals" (NKJV), "corrupt" (Lamsa), "per.verts" (CEV), "catamites" which means call boys (JB), "those who are male prosti.tutes" (NCV), and "male prost.itutes." (NIV, NRSV). Until the Reformation in the 16th century and in Roman Catholicism until the 20th century, malakoi was thought to mean "mas.turb.ators." Only in the 20th century has it been understood as a reference to hom.ose.xuality.
      So does God condemn gays in the New Testament?
      It all depends on what translation you're reading.

      June 1, 2011 at 9:58 am |
    • Free

      civiloutside
      I suggest that it's a bit of a leftover from the Jewish sense of God's justice found in the OT. Without a clear belief of an afterlife and Hell, those Jews would carry out God's justice here on Earth for him. Failure to enforce God's judgments usually led to His arranging some calamity to befall His people (followed by a prophet to explain to the king what led to said calamity).

      Some present-day Christians identify themselves with being the 'new' people of God so strongly that they think (rather, were led to think) that God will send some punishment upon them for 'allowing' gay marriage to become a reality. So, to answer the question, they work against it becoming legal because they have a superst.ition that it will bring disaster upon THEM! It's a case of throwing others under the bus in order to save your own butt. Simple as that!

      June 1, 2011 at 10:05 am |
    • CW

      @ Civiloutside,

      Okay...I understand how you feel. I really appreciate your response and so I will debate things with you. There may be those that don't believe in what you say is "my so called version of God". I have to correct you though...its not my version b/c to have so called "my version" is wrong. My belief is in the Bible which is the true word of God. The bible clearly states that this behavior is wrong and is plain SIN. It also says that we as christians are supposed to h-ate sin...not the person commiting it. So with all that said I DO stand against g-ay marriage being legal. Its sin....and although you are saying that this makes people "miserable" I know that this is the right thing...just like drugs being illegal....you know there are those that don't believe that drugs should be illegal and so...they are also "miserable" too. Anyway I stand against sin...this is sin...so yes I will always stand against it...just like ab-ortion...etc.

      June 1, 2011 at 10:11 am |
    • Free

      Doc Vestibule
      1 Corinthians also teaches that women are to be ruled by men, are to keep their mouths shut and their heads covered in church.
      Are all churches enforcing this as well?

      1 Corinthians 11:2-16
      "2I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,a just as I passed them on to you.

      3Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7A man ought not to cover his head,b since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head.

      11In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God. 13Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. 16If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God."

      Hmm... Long hair on a man disgraceful?!

      I guess Paul really never did meet Jesus then.

      June 1, 2011 at 10:23 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Free
      More fun from Corinthians:
      "And if they (women) will lear nany thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

      June 1, 2011 at 10:50 am |
    • civiloutside

      CW,
      I say "your version" not to suggest that it's right or wrong, but because there genuinely is a debate among Christians as to what your god wants with respect to gays. I don't want to get sidetracked by people jumping in with comments to the effect of "well I'm a Christian and I don't think gays are going to he-ll!" I just want it to be clear that my questions aren't directed at them.

      Now as I understand your position, in order to get to heaven one must 1) make a free will choice to accept Jesus as lord and savior, 2) attempt to avoid sinful behavior, and 3) seek forgiveness for failures wrt 2). All three are absolute requirements. Am I correct?

      Outlawing gay marriages is an attempt to force #2 without #1 or #3 playing any role. Therefore, anyone who avoids sin only because it is illegal is still going to he-ll anyway. So laws that exist solely for the purpose of #2 are useless.

      No law can ever force someone to do #1, both because it constrains free will choice and because it's impossible for a law to force someone to truly believe anything. However, if someone *chooses* #1, then #2 and #3 should naturally follow and therefore laws for the purpose of forcing #2 are also redundant.

      Drug addiction clearly does harm to the person addicted and to the people around them. That's why Many drugs are illegal. There is no data to suggest that gay marriage harms anyone in any measurable sense. You can claim it does spiritual harm, but that is a religious position that is a relevant argument only to those who share your religious conviction, and thusly has no place in American law.

      June 1, 2011 at 11:06 am |
    • Free

      Doc Vestibule
      Yes, Bernice King may well want to reflect on how large a role as a church leader she would be allowed to enjoy under a strict Pauline doctrine before advocating the same for others. Gee, is that a photo of her and Long sitting in church up above? What, no hat! Better for her to have her head shaved, as shameful at that is for a woman. I wonder how Paul would judge women who've lost their hair to chemo therapy? If it's anything like his att.itude towards gays then he'd probably of told them to skip the treatment, I'm guessing.

      June 1, 2011 at 11:26 am |
    • Zeb

      @civiloutside – That is an excellent argument and very well written. I am very jealous but glad that someone like you is out there.
      😀

      June 1, 2011 at 11:32 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      ***********************************************
      10 Reasons Why Gay Marriage is Wrong

      01) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

      02) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

      03) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

      04) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

      05) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed. My parents ran out and got divorced the minute they heard about a gay couple getting married in Vermont.

      06) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

      07) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

      08) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. yes, we really should base 21st Century social policies on a collection of Bronze Age myths from the Middle East, that were cobbled together during the Dark Ages.

      09) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

      10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.

      June 1, 2011 at 1:59 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Bucky Ball

      Hey -Bucky...

      You 'may' want to give credit where credit is due... these wonderful 10 pointers, are from @Colin, as you are well aware, yes...?

      Peace...

      June 1, 2011 at 2:02 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      @Peace2all, .......(oops, I posted this above, should have been here).......
      No they aren't. I posted them, and forgot to copy them. Colin had copied them, and gave them back to us when my friend/housemate, (Fordham Jock) asked if anyone had saved them.
      Nitpicking I know, but I would not post something that didn't originate with me, and NOT give credit.
      Cheers. 😕

      June 1, 2011 at 2:44 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Bucky Ball

      Wow... So, 'you' were the originator of those 'brilliant' 10 pointers...?

      1st-Congrats... They are awesome ! Well done ! 😀

      2nd-*My sincere apologies* as I did not know they came from you.

      So... Now I know who to give the credit too. !

      Peace brother...

      June 1, 2011 at 3:03 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Bucky Ball – That was a great list. Good irony and sarcasm, just like the doctor ordered! It went well with the potato chips I was eating. Thx. 😛

      June 1, 2011 at 3:33 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      @Zeb
      Thanks. Hey, where's Adelbrain ? It's hard to feel superior when only you smart guys show up.
      Snort.
      (ducking).

      June 1, 2011 at 4:21 pm |
    • Fordham Jock

      @Buckminster
      Bucky, wherefore art thou ? Guess who's coming to dinner ?

      June 1, 2011 at 4:40 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      @Fordham Jock
      Shoot. I HAVE to study, (library). Will have to content myself knowing I AM there in one of QGF's alternate universes. (.....and whatever you do, DON"T tell JR I said that)

      June 1, 2011 at 4:45 pm |
    • Fordham Jock

      @ JJ
      @JJ

      California Appeals Court Decision on Prop 8.
      Open court proceeding.
      Judge to plaintiff attorney : "How exactly does same se-x marriage threaten traditional marriage ?"
      Plaintiff attorney : "I don't know".

      The End.

      June 1, 2011 at 4:59 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      @JJ
      BTW, real straight men don't give a rip what two other guys do in bed. In fact, the response of a true heterose-xual male is: "Good, less compet-ition means more women for me."

      June 2, 2011 at 11:03 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.