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May 31st, 2011
08:48 AM ET

Counterprotesters confront Westboro Baptist Church at Arlington

Washington (CNN) - Protesting members of the controversial Westboro Baptist Church were met with an unlikely group of counterprotesters Monday at Arlington Cemetery.

Hours before President Barack Obama led the nation's Memorial Day observances at the Tomb of the Unknowns, three members of the Westboro Baptist Church were challenged by others who disagreed with them - including members claiming to be from the Ku Klux Klan.

The Kansas-based church has attracted nationwide attention for its angry, anti-gay protests at the funerals of U.S. military members.

Read the full story about the Westboro Baptist Church's Memorial Day protest
- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Military • Westboro Bapitst Church

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soundoff (170 Responses)
  1. heh

    heh

    June 3, 2011 at 9:54 pm |
  2. Eric

    I think that this SumDude person is the same twad that's been posting as me in other articles after I criticized him here. Thanks to whoever did this to him because he deserved it. Good riddance.

    June 2, 2011 at 3:58 pm |
    • Eric

      So Eric, since you are obviously the one who is going around doing this, what made you decide to be such a psychotic little prick, anyway?
      Did some big, bad atheist get some nasty ole truth on you? Awww. You are such a child. -who needs meds, I should add.
      Really Eric –

      You aren't impressing anyone but yourself.

      June 2, 2011 at 11:42 pm |
  3. Zeb

    To whoever is using my name, you're just being a schwantz. It's obvious that you're not me, because you can't misuse five syllable words like I do.

    I will troll you until the end of time. HAHAHAHAHAHA! I gotta go now. Glee is on.

    June 1, 2011 at 9:38 pm |
    • Zeb

      Wow, it's been a great many months since someone hijacked my screen-name. Ha!
      .
      Hey, if you can get these ppl to understand reason and logic using my name, I may just retire and leave you to it. 😛

      June 2, 2011 at 3:17 am |
  4. Ed

    Artist had a tail but they cut it off

    June 1, 2011 at 4:47 pm |
  5. SeanNJ

    @Lycidas: You said, "There is something going on here. Either Zeb is using a new username and that is why I don't know who he is."

    I've long figured out it's just me and Truddi Chase posting comments.

    June 1, 2011 at 4:02 pm |
    • Jesus

      You are forgetting your own personal cheeses!

      June 1, 2011 at 4:22 pm |
  6. Ed

    @Zeb, That may be the most intelligent post I have read from you. Complete with at least 2 insults vailed in a apology.

    June 1, 2011 at 3:00 pm |
  7. Artist

    Zeb

    @Artist – Good observation. I try to engage Lycidas because he is intelligent, but he is a slippery customer so it doesn't always prove fruitful. You could be Lycidas for all I know. I was just looking for someone to argue against who could speak more intelligently than Adelina. There aren't many who come through here like that.
    I, too, value Ed's honesty, but his crashing ignorance is a real bummer. Good jokes elsewhere btw.
    --–
    oh snap I thought he was a she :o. Let me take back my previous post.

    June 1, 2011 at 2:30 pm |
  8. A Gamer

    stuff like this just makes me sad. If the F-ing KKK shows up and says they're being offensive, there's something wrong. And @Zeb, you should run for president. it worked for Obama to make big speeches that contain nothing but Bias and opinion. in fact, i do believe that your speech was to seek the truth? here it is. god is as real to these people as you or I. god is as false to you as the changes Obama promised. he is a belief. real to some, not to others. If a 14-Yo boy in Michigan can figure this out, so should a 40-Yo man that lives with his mother and gets his kicks off trolling the internet.

    June 1, 2011 at 7:21 am |
    • Zeb

      @A Gamer – If god were as real as you or I, then there would be proof of such a being actually existing, so your analogy fails quite badly at that point.
      I would not run for President, but I can appreciate your sarcasm in suggesting it. Yes, Obama is just a politician who keeps making very bad political deals. He is obviously out of his element. If someone better came along, I would vote for them.
      As to your accusations of bias, I confess to a wee tiny bit of bias where lies, especially religious lies, are concerned.
      Consider the fact that people are vulnerable to lies like nothing else.
      Religious lies are lies that are based in ignorance and fear, among other things. That means atheists will always win any argument with believers. You can't win with lies unless you can fool someone into believing your lies.
      In seeking the truth of everything, I have found it to be a very honorable and moral path to learning what is useful and have found that it is also useful in avoiding ignorance where it really matters.
      If you find this offensive, biased, and opinionated, that's your problem and not mine.
      I will ignore your 14 year old ad hominem attack, as you are young and obviously don't know any better.
      Your ignorance is understandable, and I recall being just as stupid about some things as you at that age.
      If you can learn the difference between what is good information and what is not, then you will have taken another step on the path we should all follow.
      I feel no shame for being biased against lies, yet you appear to think I should be ashamed of the truth. I am not and hopefully never will be. You can't attack me with lies and expect it to stick. Nice try for a gamer, though. Sniping can be fun. 😛

      June 1, 2011 at 12:11 pm |
  9. GSA

    @Ed – you say "I am not trying to imply that God has a problem with interracial relationships. I doubt he does." So there is some doubt as to God being a racist? Haha, I know you probably didn't mean it that way but it's hilarious regardless.
    I'm curious to know if there have been any physical threats made against the Westboro group? I'm sure there have been verbal threats but I know if they were protesting a funeral that I was attending me and many of my family members would be spending the night behind bars.

    May 31, 2011 at 4:32 pm |
    • Ed

      I haven't got a clue if someone has threatened them. I not involved with the group. I think their a bunch of bigoted nuts. I find my seld torn of how to feel if they have been threatened in some way. After all it is wrong to threaten people and they have a right to voice their opinon. On the other hand the deserve a good a$$ kicking if you ask me.

      May 31, 2011 at 4:43 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Ed – Don't have a heart attack, but I agree with your post. 😛

      June 1, 2011 at 1:42 pm |
  10. Artist

    The leader is hateful for some reason or he simply hates himself (gay). What is interesting is how hate is learned and spread trough his family. While the day he dies will be a good day, I supsect someone in his family who has reached equal anger and hate as him will replace him. His family is a cancer and hopefully will dies off one day.

    May 31, 2011 at 4:26 pm |
  11. David Johnson

    I became "interested" in this group about 2 years ago. I read their rants and takes on world events, on their web site.

    I concluded that these people are sincere. They are not in it just to sue people. Most of their less than 100 members, are family members. Grandpa, Fred, is the ruler of all things.

    They love it, and rejoice when a disaster occurs. The more death and carnage, the more they praise god. They believe the world and especially the U. S. is the target of god's wrath, for not doing enough to make gays miserable.

    They proclaim that the return of Christ is imminent. They have claimed this for at least the last 3 years.

    A few of Fred's kids, have left the church. At least one claims Fred was very abusive. Spare the ax handle and spoil the child sort of abusive.

    Most of the girls are lawyers. Good ones. They win.

    The Westboro Baptist Church are 6 point Calvinists. They believe everyone is saved or damned, even before they are born. God allows the damned to be born knowing they will one day enjoy eternal agony.

    I have read debates the Westboro people have had with different preachers etc. They know the bible. They can back up their beliefs with scripture.

    I exchanged 2 (I actually sent three times this many) e-mails with Shirley. Fred, I was informed, does not do e-mail. Her e-mails consist mostly of quotes from the bible...a page of them. And insults.

    Apparently, the Westboro people want America to repent (sometimes they say it is too late to repent) for even allowing gays citizenship. Why they have such a fixation with this, is a mystery to me. Some speculate Fred may be fighting the good fight... I have no opinion and have seen no evidence to support this.

    Anyways, they are interesting.

    Cheers!

    May 31, 2011 at 2:59 pm |
    • Ed

      "I have read debates the Westboro people have had with different preachers etc. They know the bible. They can back up their beliefs with scripture
      "

      have a friend who is a episcopal priest one of the things he was warned about in seminary is that you can use the bible to
      back up almost anything. What Phelps and his crew have done is decide what they beleive then go to the bible to pull out proof. Then interprete the scripture to rationalize their point of view. This is a danger with al text espeacially religious, though I have seen evidence of it with some scientific text as well.

      What some one reading the Bible should do is read it for guidance not look for proof what they think is correct. I'm not surprised they know their Bible. Its how they use it thats the problem. They have a right to their belief but their still nuts.

      May 31, 2011 at 3:10 pm |
    • Mark from Middle River

      -> "Most of the girls are lawyers. Good ones. They win. "

      Davey, I watched two interviews with the daughter that fought the case at the Supreme Court. The first one was before the case was argued at the court and the second was day the ruling went their way.

      This lady.... I have never in my life heard such bravado and boasting ,.... and basically spiking the football .... I was like listening to Defensive tackle before and after the Superbowl.

      I, like many Christians, can't stand them and if it weren't for many in society who are willing to fight and die for the freedom of speech.... These folks are sorta the Yankees. On a undefeated streak. 🙁

      May 31, 2011 at 7:22 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Ed

      You said: "They have a right to their belief but their still nuts."

      You think? LOL

      Cheers!

      May 31, 2011 at 8:26 pm |
    • Mike, not me

      That was a funny post Dave, I know you can't really be serious, How can you claim that they know the Bible if you yourself don't know the Bible. Can you tell what a crooked line looks like without the idea of a straight line?

      And if they are 6 point Calvinist who come they differ so much from DesiringGod minstries and The Village Church, http://www.desiringgod.org or ww.thevillagechurch.net

      June 1, 2011 at 9:11 am |
    • Joe from CT, not Lieberman

      Mark from Middle River, please apologize about your Yankees comments. As a lifelong (57 years) fan of the Bronx Bombers, they do not boast and brag when on top, as does the Evil Empire, known to the rest of you as the Boston Red Sox, because they know that they will not always be there. The Red Sox, on the other hand, will use their fantastic record of 3 world series victories in the past 100 or so years to claim they are the BEST and can do no wrong!

      As to the Westies, as has been described above, care capable of finding a phrase buried somewhere in the Bible and take it completely out of context to support whatever position they have. In this manner, they are like many others who cite the Bible to support whatever the topic de jour happens to be. As 6-point Calvanists (a term I haven't heard since my days studying comparative religions in college in the 70s), their entire philosophy comes from one line in Jeremiah – "Before thou wert in the womb, I knew thee" indicating that God's design for every person was preordained. As an aside, this is also the primary source of scripture used by the Anti-Abortion types, too, to justify their Crusade against choice.

      Phelps has total control over his "family", including who they may marry and what their children can and cannot do. In this they are similar to that fundamentalist Mormon splinter group led by Warren Jeffs. Their leader has absolute control over all their lives.

      June 1, 2011 at 9:16 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @David Johnson
      Thanks for the info.
      I find it strangely comforting to know that the majority of those nutbars are kinfolk and their congregation isn't growing any larger.
      It isn't surprising that they can find scripture to justify their hatred... The Bible is such a huge mass of conflicting messages that one can use it to prove just about anything.

      June 1, 2011 at 9:32 am |
    • David Johnson

      Mike, not me

      You said: "That was a funny post Dave, I know you can't really be serious, How can you claim that they know the Bible if you yourself don't know the Bible. Can you tell what a crooked line looks like without the idea of a straight line?"

      Actually, I'm pretty comfortable with the bible. I haven't memorized it, because I don't think it important enough to do so. It is a work of fiction. Only an idiot would spend time memorizing Moby Dick.

      I'd wager, the Westboro people would wipe the floor with you.

      As far as them not being like the Calvinists of other churches, it probably has a lot to do with your idiot god not being able to produce a bible that isn't ambiguous. There are ~ 34,000 different denominations of Christianity, for this reason.

      How did that go again? All powerful, All knowing, and all good? And He can't A.) Convince even a majority of the world's population that He exists and B.) He couldn't provide a book of His wants, that everyone would interpret the same way.

      Oh hell yeah, I believe He is the creator of all things...LOL

      Cheers!

      June 1, 2011 at 12:52 pm |
    • JohnR

      David, What you found out about this church should be part of every report on them. But I've never seen the lawyerly connection and the lawsuits mentioned even once. I of course haven't read anywhere near everything written about them, but I am perturbed that something so critical to understanding what's going on is all but invisible in the reports. What's going on?

      June 1, 2011 at 1:13 pm |
  12. Lycidas

    I've never understood anything about these ppl. What's their message anyway? That they are ok but everyone else is dam*ned?

    May 31, 2011 at 2:00 pm |
    • Artist

      Lycidas

      I've never understood anything about these ppl. *****What's their message anyway? That they are ok but everyone else is dam*ned?*******
      .
      Welcome to christian thought.

      May 31, 2011 at 2:02 pm |
    • Ed

      Artist, don't loink us all to this bunch of nuts

      May 31, 2011 at 2:09 pm |
    • Stevie7

      These people are about money. They provoke people to the point of violence, and then slap them with a lawsuit. Quite the scam.

      May 31, 2011 at 2:15 pm |
    • Artist

      Ed

      Artist, don't loink us all to this bunch of nuts

      ----–

      I was noting the part about the idea the world is going to hell if they don't believe as they do. Fear based is fear based regardless how you deliver the message.

      May 31, 2011 at 2:21 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Artist- Incorrect.

      May 31, 2011 at 5:07 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Lycidas – I find it odd that you don't understand other "christians". Or perhaps you follow some individual god who never wrote a book too, only a different one?
      Come, Lycidas, spell it out for us. Be brave. Sure, we'll pick your faith to pieces right before your eyes, but your faith is strong enough for that, right?

      May 31, 2011 at 5:41 pm |
    • Artist

      @Lycidas- Sorry but you know I am correct. Message from Jesus is fear and compliance...always was and still remains. Fear and compliance define Jesus. The rest is just catchy feel good fluff. In the end if you did not except him you burn baby.

      Christians are sheep for a god that rules through fear. Christians attempt to apologize and explain the ho rr ific actions or complacency of their god. Christians hold no accountability to their god and live in self imposed delusion and fear. Makes you wonder if the devil is even evil at all????????

      The rest of us must live under the masses of emotionally reta rded superst i tious humans.

      May 31, 2011 at 7:45 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Zeb- I am sorry, did I do something to offend you in some manner? I understand quite a bit about most denominations within the Christian Religion and would like to think I know a little bit about Judaism and Islam. Did you have a real question to ask? Or do you just enjoy reading your own blabber?

      May 31, 2011 at 7:54 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Artist- "In the end if you did not except him you burn baby."

      Not quite so poetic and I think you mean accept, but yes..I understand this and have no problem with it because it is not my choice or will in the matter. I would however tell you that there are many that feel that those who have never been exposed to the Word are not instantly da*mned but are judged by their own concious

      I never quite got it when ppl want to make it out that God's only emotion is love. Why do ppl ignore the rest of the scripture?

      May 31, 2011 at 7:59 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Lycidas – Sorry to see that you are still side-stepping like a sleazy lawyer. Oh, wait, don't tell me you're a lawyer too. I may faint from shock....
      When you feel man enough to face a real discussion on these boards, feel free to indulge in this new-found feeling as soon as possible, as most of us probably would find it an amazing about-face where your posts are concerned.

      June 1, 2011 at 12:19 pm |
    • Stevie7

      "I never quite got it when ppl want to make it out that God's only emotion is love. Why do ppl ignore the rest of the scripture?"

      ----------

      If one looks at the scripture as a whole, its hard to come away with any conclusion other than god is either bipolar or schizophrenic. The gospel of John says that god is love. That's really hard to reconcile with a god who also slaughters infants or, say, drowns the whole world for a do-over.

      June 1, 2011 at 12:25 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Zeb-"When you feel man enough to face a real discussion.."

      Again I ask you child, do you have a real question to ask? Or are you just that focused on yourself?

      June 1, 2011 at 1:32 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Stevie7- You'll forgive me if I can't really take what you say too seriously when you cannot even cite the proper book of the Bible.

      June 1, 2011 at 1:38 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Lycidas – Ok. Here's a question I was not all that explicit about previously: Are you a lawyer?
      Here's another question: What denomination are you? What religion do you follow?
      In the past your responses to such things has been evasive in the extreme, so I am not holding my breath here.

      June 1, 2011 at 1:50 pm |
    • Lycidas

      1. Are you a lawyer?
      You was actually serious about this question? Ok. No, I am not a lawyer.
      Are you?

      2. What denomination are you? What religion do you follow?
      No denomination, Christian.

      "In the past your responses to such things has been evasive in the extreme, so I am not holding my breath here."
      There is no evasivness when ppl actually ask real questions and allow the person to aswer them in the manner of their choosing.

      June 1, 2011 at 1:53 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Lycidas – Thank you for answering. As for me, I am not a lawyer either, but I read the occasional court opinion and have the usual mishmash of legal-type experiences to draw from. I even stayed at a Holiday Inn Express a few times. 😛
      Peace, Lycidas. I am not after your soul today. If it even exists. 😛

      June 1, 2011 at 2:08 pm |
    • Lycidas

      I'll take it that my answers were goo for you then 😉

      June 1, 2011 at 2:11 pm |
    • Stevie7

      "Lycidas
      @Stevie7- You'll forgive me if I can't really take what you say too seriously when you cannot even cite the proper book of the Bible."
      ----------------
      John 4:8 states that god is love. Didn't think I should have to point that out, but I guess I do. Perhaps it is you, then, who should not be taken seriously.

      June 1, 2011 at 4:13 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Stevie7- John 4:8 says, "(For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat)".

      Care to try again? Here is a hint, try looking toward the end of the New Testament instead of the earlier books.

      June 1, 2011 at 6:02 pm |
    • Zeb

      @ Lycidas

      Hey, did you know that if you sit in a hot room all day and post to blogs, when you get up your chair is kinda wet and your crotch stinks? At least mine does. But that's ok – I think I like it.

      June 1, 2011 at 9:23 pm |
    • Zeb

      Hey! I just tried it and it really does! :mrgreen: My God ! That's fairly decent!

      June 1, 2011 at 9:26 pm |
    • Zeb

      @all – I'm kind of wondering if I should bother pointing out that I didn't write those funny posts. Oh, well. "Zeb" wasn't quite feeling like a comfortable name anyway.
      I did laugh though. I was thinking "who would write something like that?" as I laughed, and then I saw Zeb as the name.
      And then I laughed some more. This is great!
      Thanks, alternate-"Zeb"! 😀

      June 2, 2011 at 3:24 am |
  13. GSA

    Westboro and the KKK, great advocates of the religion of peace and tolerance.

    May 31, 2011 at 1:09 pm |
  14. myweightinwords

    As a friend of mine said this weekend when I mentioned this, how morally repugnant must your protest be if the KKK stands with those who stand against you?

    It is telling, however, that Westboro only drummed up three people to protest at a place like Arlington.

    May 31, 2011 at 12:02 pm |
    • Lycidas

      Sadly, even three ppl are much too many.

      May 31, 2011 at 2:01 pm |
  15. Doc Vestibule

    When a Klansman derides you for being too hateful, that should be a clear indication it's time to re-evaluate your tactics!

    May 31, 2011 at 11:49 am |
    • Peace2All

      @Doc V.

      Yep.

      Peace...

      May 31, 2011 at 12:29 pm |
    • Ed

      This is a rare occurance but I am in complete agreement with you Doc

      May 31, 2011 at 2:01 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      First Steve (the real one) and now Ed agree with me!
      Careful! Agreeing with atheists can be a slippery slope...
      Next thing you know you'll be espousing the virtues of moral relativism!

      May 31, 2011 at 3:27 pm |
    • Zeb

      What is shocking is that I agreed with Ed in a different post. Truly these must be the "end times" ! 😯

      June 1, 2011 at 2:10 pm |
  16. cbr

    This group from Westboro will continue to appear at funerals and ceremonies until they are no longer in the news. Every time the media gives them coverage the group just prepares to do more.

    People who about his group and reject their ideology. and are unhappy about their attendance at funerals and ceremonies. The Supreme Court has upheld their right to do so but no one has asked the press to cover this group and give them legitimacy. CNN would do well to ignore them as well. klI know that is heard to do because CNN finds it difficult to ignore stories about right wind groups even those who cause such sorrow by their presence.

    May 31, 2011 at 10:32 am |
  17. Reality

    Freedom of religion is a basic human right, right up there with freedom of the press, vote, and to live and die in peace. It is not imposed. It comes with being human. Koranic" Muslims, other religious fanatics like the "Westboro crazies", Communists, Nazis, Aryan Nationalists, and "KKKers" would like us to be less than human.

    May 31, 2011 at 9:58 am |
    • Zeb

      Is there any conflict in your mind between freedom of religion and your efforts to "deprogram" the faithful?
      Or are you simply working within the system while opposing the fraud known as religion? (as I do?)

      May 31, 2011 at 11:43 am |
    • John Richardson

      @Zeb I don't see any conflict between recognizing freedom of religion and arguing against their tenets. I believe the KKK has free speech rights and yet totally deplore their ideology and say so openly, right?

      May 31, 2011 at 12:11 pm |
    • Reality

      JR,

      Ditto that!!

      May 31, 2011 at 3:24 pm |
    • Zeb

      Sorry it took so long to respond. I only follow the law because the rule of law is the only thing that keeps us from killing each other.
      To me, freedom of religion is no different than saying "freedom of insanity and fraud", yet I respect the Constltution and would like to change that part of it to better reflect the realities of scientific fact and such.
      So I work within the system.

      @JohnR -But there are restrictions upon free speech and religion, yet the religious freedom is not curbed like it should be.
      Religion gets a "free pass" all too often.

      May 31, 2011 at 4:12 pm |
    • Artist

      Zeb

      ....So I work within the system. ..........
      .
      Same here, perhaps some day man will rise above the mass ignorance and fear????

      May 31, 2011 at 4:19 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Artist – I'm not going to hold my breath...

      May 31, 2011 at 4:50 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Artist and Zeb- Wow...I love how you ignorantly tie in religion with some level of stupidity. That has to be the most unfounded piece of garbage I've seen on here tonight.

      May 31, 2011 at 8:02 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Lycidas – Too bad you can't come up with a cogent argument to support your ad hominem attacks. Typical Lycidas.

      June 1, 2011 at 12:21 pm |
    • Artist

      Lycidas

      @Artist and Zeb- Wow...I love how you ignorantly tie in religion with some level of stupidity. That has to be the most unfounded piece of garbage I've seen on here tonight.
      -------------
      .
      Perhaps you need to reread what I posted?

      June 1, 2011 at 1:00 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Zeb- Are you confused? Seriously, what arguments are you referring to? I was just being critical of you...grow a thicker skin.

      June 1, 2011 at 1:40 pm |
    • Lycidas

      I did Artist, and unless I am mistaken you are equating religion to "mass ignorance and fear". Now I will give you the benefit of the doubt and will believe you mean organized religion and not individual beliefs.

      June 1, 2011 at 1:42 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Lycidas – My skin is plenty thick, thank you. I just didn't know you were just spouting off. Sorry to inflame you further, sport.

      June 1, 2011 at 1:53 pm |
    • Lycidas

      I wouldn't flatter yourself child. You have a long way to go before you actually offend me on here. I think you are confused over me pointing out your faults and true offense.

      June 1, 2011 at 1:55 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Lycidas – Glad I could help you with your delusions, there. 😛

      June 1, 2011 at 2:13 pm |
    • Lycidas

      If you feel that is the reality of situation, you are welcome to your lonely thoughts.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:16 pm |
  18. Anglican

    Just a lot of misguided, misinformed people. Love and peace are not a part of their agenda. Let us all learn from their ignorance, and love one another.

    May 31, 2011 at 9:56 am |
    • Free

      Love is a fine thing, but lots of Christians can 'love' all kinds of folks and still preach that they're sinners headed to hell. Maybe this is done out of complete ignorance, but what most folks in Christianity's crosshairs really want is some tolerance shown to them. Lots of Christians already do a pretty good job of being tolerant of people who believe differently than they do, but there is a section of the faith who have been taught never to abide with people being different than themselves. Too bad that the more moderate people of faith choose to remain silent leaving groups like these to speak for them, eh?

      May 31, 2011 at 11:32 am |
    • Anglican

      Welcome to the Episcopal Church. Peace

      May 31, 2011 at 12:16 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Free

      1)"Love is a fine thing, but lots of Christians can 'love' all kinds of folks and still preach that they're sinners headed to hell."
      ~Are you implying a conflict here?

      2)"..what most folks in Christianity's crosshairs really want is some tolerance shown to them. Lots of Christians already do a pretty good job of being tolerant of people who believe differently than they do, but there is a section of the faith who have been taught never to abide with people being different than themselves."
      ~I would agree, though of course there is a section of our culture that behaves in that manner. I don't think religion has as much to do with it as to how these ppl would be anyway.

      3)"Too bad that the more moderate people of faith choose to remain silent leaving groups like these to speak for them, eh?"
      ~I must disagree with that. I've known many Christians that speak out against these ppl

      May 31, 2011 at 2:10 pm |
    • Free

      Lycidas
      1)"Love is a fine thing, but lots of Christians can 'love' all kinds of folks and still preach that they're sinners headed to hell."
      "~Are you implying a conflict here?"

      Yes! Some Christians say that they also 'love' terrorists, murderers and child molesters in the same way that they 'love' gays. I know the intention is to label everyone as 'sinners', but in the common view this as.sociation is often used as a condemnation and implies that being gay is on par with deliberate acts of hurting others, which is ridiculous.

      3)"Too bad that the more moderate people of faith choose to remain silent leaving groups like these to speak for them, eh?"
      "~I must disagree with that. I've known many Christians that speak out against these ppl"

      I meant to be less universal in my language as well. Sorry!

      May 31, 2011 at 2:59 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Free- First off..thank you for being civil. Certain other trolls on here seem to be confused over when a true argument has been made and when it hasn't.

      I agree with you on the lumping of all sin into the same pot. From my perspective, in a spiritual sense...all sin is equal. But unlike how some Christians seem to view it...all sin and all are equal in deserving of punishment. Being Christian isn't suppose to be a "I'm better than everyone that isn't Christian" type of thing.

      Now from a human perspective, not every sin is equal to other sins. Even the Rabbinical teachings support this. Obviously murder is worse than cheating on your spouse or such. You can get forgiveness for the cheating but not from the person you kill.

      June 1, 2011 at 1:48 pm |
    • Ed

      @Lycidas
      well said

      June 1, 2011 at 2:19 pm |
    • Artist

      Lycidas

      ..... Obviously murder is worse than cheating on your spouse or such. You can get forgiveness for the cheating but not from the person you kill.
      .
      If you go as far as to murder someone, I doubt you would be seeking forgiveness from them or losing sleep over it. Just say'n

      June 1, 2011 at 2:22 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Artist- Reference "The Sunflower: On the Possibilities and Limits of Forgiveness" by Simon Wiesenthal. It's a good study on the concept of forgiveness.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:25 pm |
    • Artist

      Lycidas

      @Artist- Reference "The Sunflower: On the Possibilities and Limits of Forgiveness" by Simon Wiesenthal. It's a good study on the concept of forgiveness.
      .
      To understand animals helps us forgive their actions.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:28 pm |
    • Lycidas

      But the main aspect in the book is, can we forgive. Are we allowed to fogive such a violation as the murder of another?

      Sure we can forgive actions done to us, but can we forgive actions done to another?

      June 1, 2011 at 2:35 pm |
    • Ed

      That sounds like a interesting read I will have to look for it

      June 1, 2011 at 2:55 pm |
    • Artist

      I cannot fathom or relate to what the Jews recieved from the Nazi's. I believe men/women should be held to the fire for their actions. Let them walk in the shoes of the people they tormented. Let them carry the burden until their heart stops.

      June 1, 2011 at 3:06 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Ed- It is. I found it very interesting.

      @Artist- you would find a few respondants at the end of the book agreeing with you.

      June 1, 2011 at 3:52 pm |
  19. AtheistSteve

    "That's fine," said Abigail Phelps, the daughter of Westboro Baptist Church founder Fred Phelps. "They have no moral authority on anything.

    Now I don't for a second agree with anything the KKK stands for, but Abigail is a hypocrite to think her moral standards are anything other than equally wreched. Both groups preach hate and ignorance. This truly is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

    May 31, 2011 at 9:20 am |
    • CW

      @ AtheistSteve,

      Let me say...I don't agree with this so called church to picket at anyone's funeral. I don't agree with preaching that God "h-ate's" G-ays either. I do agree that God H-ate's the G-ay lifestyle and H-ate's the sin of acting on the urges of being so called "g-ay". Anyway....its clear that those(g-ay folks, non believers)that don't "choose" to turn to God and ask for forgiveness of their sins and follow him...they will have to face the c-ons-equences.

      May 31, 2011 at 10:38 am |
    • Free

      CW
      More allusions to hellfire CW, really?
      Funny, the only tangible 'consequence' of gays not following the hard Christian line seems to be incurring Christian bigotry. It's almost like you have to invent this consequence just in case the proposed one doesn't pan out like you hope.

      May 31, 2011 at 11:21 am |
    • tallulah13

      Wow. A THIRD repugnant hate group heard from. Although I guess CW can't be called a group all by him/herself.

      May 31, 2011 at 12:06 pm |
    • John Richardson

      CW is addicted to eternal damnation fantasies. Yeah, it IS more than a little disturbing.

      May 31, 2011 at 12:27 pm |
    • CW

      @ Free,

      All I can say is this. You can believer as you want...no question. My faith however tells me through the Bible that there is indeed a h-ell and if we don't put God first in our lives and follow him then...yes then through my faith I truly believe that there will be "cons-equences" to this.

      May 31, 2011 at 2:14 pm |
    • Free

      CW
      While you merely think there is a consequence to this after we die, we can all see that there is a consequence to the bigotry against gays while we live. That's the difference. What you say only serves to support that bigotry and, if you turn out to be wrong, then you aided in causing these people pain, correct?

      May 31, 2011 at 2:48 pm |
    • Evolved DNA

      Free.. well said.. faith allows some to think that a dislike or hate of another is justified and the consequences of that dislike..possibly suicide or major depression, is just part of "gods plan"

      May 31, 2011 at 3:16 pm |
    • Ed

      @Zeb, You didn't read what I wrote carefully I clearly stated it was not my business who anyone else married or mated with. As for God agreeing with me I don't know that he does. However since God created all humans I can't understand why he would care which subsection of human married or mated with which subsection. Whether you choose to believe in God or not does not change that God exists. If you don't believe thats ok that too is between you and God. I realize that statement holds no value to someone who does not believe but that doesn't make it false.

      The marriage conversations was started when John Richardson wrote "And with crazy cultural taboos on who you can marry or otherwise mate with falling in more and more places around the globe, it'll all just become murkier in the future."

      I was responding to what appeared to be a assumption by John that I ahad some problem with intercaltural or interracial relationships. I don't but he seemed to think I did do I responded and now you seem to think I do too even though in every response I have stated I don't. So again who someone marries or mates with is not my business it is between the 2 of them and God. I can't see why God would care what culture or racial group the each belong to since God created the entire race. You are correct I may be wrong about whether or not God cares but I can't see why he would.

      May 31, 2011 at 5:14 pm |
    • Free

      Evolved DNA
      Yes, if you remove it being an article of their faith then it all becomes just common bigotry. I've even heard some Christians (not many, mind you) argue, quite rightly I suppose, against those who don't invoke the Lord in their judgment, but who merely condemn it because of a personal distaste. That's, at least, staying to the message that it's be alright with them except that God forbids it.

      However, any refusal to acknowledge that they may be wrong in this is either a huge measure of their arrogance (although they call it 'faith', but it is still personal cert.itude), or their superst.itious fear that God may hold any doubt they have against them. Neither of these possibilities is exactly endearing. Braver souls would worry over the harm they are causing, I think!

      May 31, 2011 at 6:34 pm |
  20. John Richardson

    Westboro bigots: Religion at its rock bottom worst. And while I have to admit some amusement value in seeing rightwing loonies at each other's throats, the klan can shove it. Black, Jewish and Hispanic troops fought for everyone's free speech rights, including the klan's, too. And if the largely mythical "white race" is being "denigrated", it's because of people like them.

    May 31, 2011 at 8:55 am |
    • Nonimus

      http://store.richarddawkins.net/products/we-are-all-africans

      May 31, 2011 at 9:43 am |
    • Hey, Phelps!

      http://www.cafepress.com/cp/moredetails.aspx?productNo=354721419&pr=F&showbleed=False&colorNo=1&tab=1&Zoom=2&subFront=&subBack=

      May 31, 2011 at 10:32 am |
    • Zeb

      @John R – Well said. Thank you for being a voice of reason.

      May 31, 2011 at 11:45 am |
    • Insecure in Bel-Air

      Thank you. Well said.

      As you point out, the "myth" of race is WAY overdue for the scrapheap. We are all genetically, not only related, (see "Mitochondrial Eve", but also 99.5 genetically identical. There are, for the unread, literally countless articles about Genetic Drift, the Founder Effect, Mutational Events, etc., etc. Some people are simply ignorant, and there's not much else to say.

      May 31, 2011 at 12:07 pm |
    • John Richardson

      Plus, there is more genetic variation within Africa than there is between one branch of Africans and the rest of the world combined, meaning Europeans, Asians, Australian Aborigines, Native Americans, Polynesians, EVERYONE. This just as one would expect from the well established fact that we ALL come from Africa. And the variation within Africa is less than the variation amongst vastly less populous species like chimps and gorillas. So we are not just all Africans, but are all very closely related indeed.

      May 31, 2011 at 12:23 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @John R.

      Hey -John...

      Well said.

      Peace...

      May 31, 2011 at 12:33 pm |
    • BG

      @ John Richardson

      " Plus, there is more genetic variation within Africa than there is between one branch of Africans and the rest of the world combined..."

      If you're talking about the University of Pennsylvania study, you're misquoting it. If not, then from where?

      May 31, 2011 at 1:54 pm |
    • BG

      The 'African Theory' is just that – a theory, popularized as of late. Let me know if you want to talk about the multiregional hypothesis. I have no problem with 'relations', similar genetics, etc. Just get your facts straight and acknowledge that these are simply -theories- with unverifiable conclusions.

      May 31, 2011 at 2:07 pm |
    • Ed

      @John Richardson "And if the largely mythical "white race" is being "denigrated", it's because of people like them."

      While I whole-heartedly agree we are all one race human I'm not sure caucasians qualify as mythical creatures.

      c

      May 31, 2011 at 2:25 pm |
    • John Richardson

      @Ed – Those people who have traditionally been called caucasian are not mythical creatures. But the notion that there is anything like a genetically – or even phenotypically – well defined or definable caucasian race is at the absolute least highly unlikely. And with crazy cultural taboos on who you can marry or otherwise mate with falling in more and more places around the globe, it'll all just become murkier in the future.

      May 31, 2011 at 3:06 pm |
    • Ed

      As I said we are all 1 race and I have no concern for who anyone other the me marriies or mates with, that is between them and God.

      May 31, 2011 at 3:13 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Ed,
      "As I said we are all 1 race and I have no concern for who anyone other the me marriies or mates with, that is between them and God."
      ... or just between them.

      May 31, 2011 at 4:04 pm |
    • Ed

      @Nonimus Its between them and God tehy can choose to ignore God or not believe in God taht too is between them and God. I am not trying to imply that God has a problem with interracial relationships. I doubt he does. Since he created all of us black, white, asian, indian.... why would he care which groupd marries or mates with which group. I don't think God cares if a white guy marries a black girl or a black guy marries an indian, or any other combinations. I don't care either. Picking a spouse is the buiness of the people choosing and no one else. It is between the 2 of them God. Its only my business if I'm not one of them.

      May 31, 2011 at 4:16 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Ed – I fail to see how other people getting married are any of your business at all, or am I misunderstanding what you said?

      As for your "god", I notice that you ascribe, like so many other believers, desires and approval to your god that are really just YOUR desires, judgments, etc.
      Your "god" is just you with a big giant face like an invisible balloon in the sky. When will you learn that you don't know of what your god actually wants? He/she/it has yet to contact the human race if he/she/it even exists.
      Why would you think your god thinks the way you do? It is proof that there is no god. It is just YOU and no one else.

      May 31, 2011 at 4:58 pm |
    • Ed

      @Zeb, You didn't read what I wrote carefully I clearly stated it was not my business who anyone else married or mated with. As for God agreeing with me I don't know that he does. However since God created all humans I can't understand why he would care which subsection of human married or mated with which subsection. Whether you choose to believe in God or not does not change that God exists. If you don't believe thats ok that too is between you and God. I realize that statement holds no value to someone who does not believe but that doesn't make it false.

      The marriage conversations was started when John Richardson wrote "And with crazy cultural taboos on who you can marry or otherwise mate with falling in more and more places around the globe, it'll all just become murkier in the future."

      I was responding to what appeared to be a assumption by John that I ahad some problem with intercaltural or interracial relationships. I don't but he seemed to think I did do I responded and now you seem to think I do too even though in every response I have stated I don't. So again who someone marries or mates with is not my business it is between the 2 of them and God. I can't see why God would care what culture or racial group the each belong to since God created the entire race. You are correct I may be wrong about whether or not God cares but I can't see why he would.

      Sorry responded to the wrong post

      May 31, 2011 at 5:15 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Ed – I think the problem was that you said, at the end of your post, "Its only my business if I'm not one of them."
      Only your business if you aren't one of them? That sounded a bit strange, so I thought you might have misprinted that part.

      Anyway, the issue of what is "false" and what is "true" can be tested in most circ-umstances, so for an atheist to say there is no god, and for a believer to say there is one, are opposing statements that happen to be testable.
      Your religion fails these tests.
      There is no god as you describe, that is, there is no god as described by any major religion.
      The faint possibility exists that there is a super-being somewhere, but there is no proof that such a creature has ever communicated with the human race in any way, shape, form, or manner.
      So while saying something doesn't necessarily "make it false", it doesn't necessarily "make it true" either.
      The point many of us try to make is that reality and hard facts already prove your religion to be false, that is, untrue in all religious aspects.
      And you might try to understand that when you say something like, "that too is between you and God", you are being obtuse to the point of insult.
      There is nothing between any of us and a non-existent being. It is a logical impossibility.
      As for your inability to understand, that is normal for religious folks. You filter everything through your extreme religious bias.
      It might not seem or feel extreme to you, but from the outside, it is pretty bad stuff.

      Also, when you make an argument based upon what has been proven to be false, it invites ridicule from those who are not ignorant of the falsity of your argument. Perhaps you could think of how you have done this yourself to someone who was obviously wrong and you were right.
      But regarding religious vs non-believers, the issue is provable and testable. We have the facts and the truth on our side.
      Good luck getting out of the cult you are in. You'll probably live your lie until you die. I am only wanting to help you find or seek out the truth of what you believe. This can either strengthen your faith or break it down.
      Seek the truth. That's my basic argument here. How is that bad? Yet if you think you already have it and never test it to make sure it's accurate, what does that say about your intellectual honesty?
      Gotta go. Please think about what you are doing. If you act from a basis of untruth, your actions and results will be predictably unrealistic to put it nicely.

      May 31, 2011 at 6:03 pm |
    • Ed

      @Zeb, That read like a political speech a lot spoken nothing said. You have no proof the God does not exist. In fact most atheist simply state it is up to the religious to prove he does exist if they can't he doesn't, or you can't prove a negative or something to that effect. God has not been proven false his existence has also not been proven true. I accept that I can not prove God true. I have searched for truth and have found it.

      I'm not trying to convert you belief is your choice. if you take that as an insult I'm sorry it is simply a statement of fact it is your choice as it is mine and everyone else's no insult intended.

      Good luck on getting out of your own cult the way you preach ateism and you do preach it it more like a religion then anything I have said. you commented somewhare prehaps on a different blog that some one else had no understanding of religion I submit that you understand both religion and human nature less than you think.

      May 31, 2011 at 6:14 pm |
    • Lycidas

      I agree with Ed on Zed's speech above. There was no real information...just Zed's opinions. And wasn't it opinions he was fighting against?

      "I am only wanting to help you find or seek out the truth of what you believe. This can either strengthen your faith or break it down."

      I doubt the sincerity of this statement.

      May 31, 2011 at 8:08 pm |
    • Eric

      > Lycidas

      You doubt Zeb's sincerity? I doubt Zeb, period. He's a time-waster and baiter – a troll of the highest and most skilled order. I never bother with him as he tends to say very little in as much space as he can possibly use. You're all just now figuring this out? Bwahahahah!

      May 31, 2011 at 8:29 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Eric- Oh no..I had him (it) figured out pretty quick. But like most good toys, he needs wind up to make us all smile 🙂

      May 31, 2011 at 8:54 pm |
    • John Richardson

      @Ed For the record, it never even occurred to me that you even might have any objections to interracial or intercultural marriages. I was simply stating that over and above the many, many problems in delineating "races" based on past genetic history, the blurring of any racial lines that one might want to recognize will only get blurrier and blurrier going into the future, as people from very different backgrounds find it both easier and more culturally acceptable to mate and marry.

      May 31, 2011 at 10:27 pm |
    • Bullworth

      We just need to keep screwing each other until we're all the same color.

      May 31, 2011 at 10:39 pm |
    • Ed

      @John Richardson I agree it will get easier and thats a good thing it will weaken the racist lines and hopefully one day we can be done with racism all together

      June 1, 2011 at 8:14 am |
    • Zeb

      I think you guys are just jealous and frustrated that you cannot refute any of my points in a cogent and intelligent manner.
      I mean it really shows, you know what I mean?
      Zeb 1, Liars 0 (again)

      June 1, 2011 at 12:29 pm |
    • Artist

      Ed- I accept that I can not prove God true.
      .
      Finally an honest Christian and why faith is a must for Christianity or any religion worshiping a god of their choosing. A person can have assumptions but there is not one shred of direct evidence to "any" god in history. Simply put, no god has come forward. We are left with ramblings of men scattered trough our history making a claim to have seen or talked thier gods.
      .
      Ed is one of the few Christians I repsect, simply because he is honest. I find it interesting the Christians who scramble around chasing their evidence, when it always comes down to one must have faith because there is nothing else.

      June 1, 2011 at 1:09 pm |
    • Lycidas

      "I think you guys are just jealous and frustrated that you cannot refute any of my points in a cogent and intelligent manner."

      What points? So far the majority of your stuff has been "I'm right and your wrong" type of stuff.

      June 1, 2011 at 1:50 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Lycidas – I'm surprised at your inability. Maybe you should drink some coffee or something to get you going. If I drank coffee I would be stomping everything down with my heavy boots. Your responses seem rather limp lately. Are you doing okay?
      Maybe you should take a vacation or something. Or sign up for classes on ethics and logic. Then you could start kicking my ass for once. I worry about you, Lycidas, I really do in a selfish sort of way. I prefer honest and intellligent arguments and comments, as you may already know....if you can't play at this level, don't. When I am unable to sustain it, I often take a break myself, so maybe that could work for you, too.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:05 pm |
    • Lycidas

      Just like a wind up toy..look at Zeb go..lol.

      No points, just a va*gue decla*ration of some kind of victory from someone that hasn't done anything. Get it together Zeb.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:09 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Lycidas – I could say the same to you, if you hadn't noticed. But repeating the mistakes of others is not the sort of thing I like to do, so I will just wave cheerfully at your silly nonsense. 😛

      June 1, 2011 at 2:17 pm |
    • Lycidas

      Odd, you are repeating many mistakes, like not actually saying anything but yet feeling like you have made some point. You aren't much different thatn many of those that have a faith on here you love to be critical of. But if that brings joy to your soul...good for you 😉

      June 1, 2011 at 2:19 pm |
    • Artist

      Call me crazy but I think Zeb and Lycidas have a fatal attraction for each other lol

      June 1, 2011 at 2:19 pm |
    • Lycidas

      With Artist it's a triad.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:21 pm |
    • Artist

      Lycidas

      With Artist it's a triad.
      -

      Never pictured us in a thr ee some. But hey why not.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:25 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Artist – Good observation. I try to engage Lycidas because he is intelligent, but he is a slippery customer so it doesn't always prove fruitful. You could be Lycidas for all I know. I was just looking for someone to argue against who could speak more intelligently than Adelina. There aren't many who come through here like that.
      I, too, value Ed's honesty, but his crashing ignorance is a real bummer. Good jokes elsewhere btw. 😀

      June 1, 2011 at 2:27 pm |
    • Ed

      Shouldn't those last comments have been on the hook up article

      June 1, 2011 at 2:29 pm |
    • Artist

      Zeb

      @Artist – Good observation. I try to engage Lycidas because he is intelligent, but he is a slippery customer so it doesn't always prove fruitful. You could be Lycidas for all I know. I was just looking for someone to argue against who could speak more intelligently than Adelina. There aren't many who come through here like that.
      I, too, value Ed's honesty, but his crashing ignorance is a real bummer. Good jokes elsewhere btw.
      ––
      oh snap I thought he was a she . Let me take back my previous post.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:30 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Ed – Good joke. It took me a second to see what you meant, as I have not been commenting on those threads. 😀

      June 1, 2011 at 2:31 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Artist- Lol

      @Zeb- "because he is intelligent, but he is a slippery customer" Best compliment I've gotten on here I think.

      Oh heck..we all come on here to dance about each other. Sometimes facts get thrown about and the truth gets stomped on, but it's all in fun. After all, if anyone coming on here gets so bent out of shape over comments on a CNN board, wow that's bad.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:31 pm |
    • Artist

      Zeb- as for Adelina, I have since given up responding to her mindless posts. Talking to her is like trying to talk to a retard on crack.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:33 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Ed

      LOL 😀

      Peace...

      June 1, 2011 at 2:33 pm |
    • Ed

      @Zeb If you are an example of what it is to be enlightened I'm happy to be ignorant its a better class of people. I don't seek an argument for the sake of an argument I seek a good debate as a chance to learn and grow. Your post seem to show a desire to just disagree and insult. That is what I would describe as ignorance. I don't mind being told I'm wrong but I got over throwing dimb insults years ago, and I'm really not that old. When your ready to joiin the adult world let me know.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:33 pm |
    • Ed

      Glad I could give some of you a laugh today if nothing else

      June 1, 2011 at 2:34 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Lycidas – Not much of a compliment if you can't be trusted, really. But have fun with that. A serious discussion should be honestly done. If you are not serious, as you seem to imply, then that certainly explains your unwillingness to be upfront and honest. This is a game to you. Okay. Got it.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:35 pm |
    • Artist

      Lycidas-.... After all, if anyone coming on here gets so bent out of shape over comments on a CNN board, wow that's bad.
      .
      Yes pretty bad and they need to up their meds or get la id (like the author of the Hookl up article). Did that just slip out? My bad.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:36 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Zeb- Being a game doesn't mean it cannot be taken seriously now does it? I've have been very truthful with my answers when I give them on here. It's just that most ppl don't like the manner in which I answer questions. Honesty is important and I think I've been pretty honest on here.

      @Artist- Lol, I've avoided that thread. But I am under the impression it has been garnering some interesting comments.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:39 pm |
    • Artist

      Zeb

      @Lycidas – Not much of a compliment if you can't be trusted, really. But have fun with that. A serious discussion should be honestly done. If you are not serious, as you seem to imply, then that certainly explains your unwillingness to be upfront and honest. This is a game to you. Okay. Got it.
      .
      Isn't life just one twisted sick game? If god is real he/she/it is one twisted puppet master. Just go to a Wal Mart and you will see how twisted god can be. He has one heck of a sense of humor.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:41 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Ed – Now you are making me feel bad. Okay, I'm sorry I'm an ass about some things. Your ignorance is not your fault and I'm sorry if I made it sound that way.
      If I might offer this personal observation of my own reactions: If I see rudeness, I give it back many-fold. It is ingrained in my personal psyche. I perceive an attack, conscious or unconscious, and I often respond in kind. Your religious-based arrogance is, I would guess, mostly unconscious on your part, so I don't really feel like you are a vicious person.
      Thus my apologies to you.
      I am quite able to admit my mistakes when I perceive them. I am not irreversibly wedded to my opinions, as my own ignorance may come into play at any time. If you see something of mine where you think I am wrong, feel free to point it out as you have done. Hopefully I won't be too busy or distracted to see where you are coming from.
      As for that Lycidas fellow, he is a different breed of cat. I don't need to inform him of his crimes, as I have pointed them out many times already in the past. He has little excuse. (hi Lycidas! 😛 )

      June 1, 2011 at 2:46 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Artist – Ah, Mal-Wart, the exigencies of free enterprise laid out like a crack-ho in the middle of every large town.
      For existence to be a joke or a game, one must first posit a creator of existence. So the game is just whatever you make it, I guess, and not a universal thing, so to speak.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:51 pm |
    • Artist

      Zeb

      @Artist – Ah, Mal-Wart, the exigencies of free enterprise laid out like a crack-ho in the middle of every large town.
      ------
      Even the cashiers are recovering addicts. If you are ever in a Wal Mart...TRY to find one person with all their front teeth. I call them drippy droolies.

      June 1, 2011 at 2:55 pm |
    • Ed

      @Zeb, That may be the most intelligent post I have read from you. Complete with at least 2 insults vailed in a apology.

      sorry didn't hit reply

      June 1, 2011 at 3:01 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Ed – I am guessing that you haven't read many of my posts. Sometimes I feel like I could almost get published in the real world, other times I am only a sad excuse for a commenter.
      And only 2 insults? I must be slipping, I was sure I had put in more than that... 😯
      lol – seriously, Ed, I like you. I am fairly certain you are a decent sort. (I wrote more but deleted it as I am trying extra hard to be nice this time.)
      I think that if we were to sit down and compare notes, we would agree on a great many things unrelated to any religious dogma or belief. But I am also wanting to be realistic about this, and would also guess that you might have a very hard time keeping your religion out of any such discussion, so I will leave it there.
      Peace, Ed. I am not an ass-hole ALL the time. I only come here to see if there are any good posts that make me think and grow. And leave destruction in my wake if I find blathering nonsense. It's not really that simplistic, but I didn't want to make another huge post. I hope you get the idea. (and sometimes my "insults" are my way of keeping everyone at a distance, too)
      Sorry again. (how many insults in this post? I have no idea.)

      June 1, 2011 at 3:50 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Zeb- Crimes? What crimes?

      There is something going on here. Either Zeb is using a new username and that is why I don't know who he is. Or Zeb was so forgettable and unimpressive from previous threads that I can't recall this person.

      June 1, 2011 at 3:56 pm |
    • Ed

      @Zeb fair enough if there were any insults I missed them this time. Thanks for the apology and allow me to offer my own for any unreasonable ranting or sensitvity on my part.

      June 1, 2011 at 3:57 pm |
    • Artist

      Jesus can we quit with the ar se petting and get back to insulting. Anymore of this and I am going gag.

      June 1, 2011 at 4:09 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Lycidas – lol
      Yes, of course I was "forgettable and unimpressive". Of course. Terrible of me. I'm such a terrible person, aren't I ?

      @Ed – No apologies needed, but thanks anyway. If you didn't give me any reason to rant, where would I be then?
      I rely on people like you to say silly things, anyway. If everyone agreed with me this would be a very different world.
      And the opposite would be true, too. If everyone agreed with you, this would be a very different world, eh?
      Anyway, this has become a watered down thread with all the apologizing. I will go elsewhere. Peace.

      June 1, 2011 at 4:13 pm |
    • Ed

      Sorry Artist didn't mean for the conversation to turn civil on you we'll work on that

      @Zeb and what a boring world it would be if we all always agreed

      June 1, 2011 at 4:19 pm |
    • Jesus

      Artist, your father smelt of elderberries and your mother was a hamster. It was a miracle when you were born without a tail.
      I should know!

      June 1, 2011 at 4:20 pm |
    • Ed

      Artist had a tail but they cut it off.

      June 1, 2011 at 4:48 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Zeb- "Terrible of me. I'm such a terrible person, aren't I ?"

      Don't be hard on yourself. You aren't terrible, your past comments were just unimmpressive and forgettable. That's all.

      June 1, 2011 at 6:05 pm |
    • Zeb

      @Lycidas – LOL
      That is very funny. Thanks. 😀

      June 1, 2011 at 8:39 pm |
    • Zeb

      @ Ed & Lycidas,

      You know, I looked back on my postings and suddenly realized that I've been a really trollish little turd. I really haven't contributed anything productive to the conversation, and in fact, I've done immeasurably more damage by chasing reasonable people away from the discussion.

      Besides, my mother works at Wal-Mart in order to pay my tuition at the community college. I've been especially struggling with the 200-level courses, and she's not happy that I'm bringing home D's because I'm preoccupied causing trouble on this board.

      June 1, 2011 at 9:13 pm |
    • Zeb

      Also, I told Ed and Peace earlier that I wasn't an ass-hole ALL the time. I've reconsidered that. I guess I am.

      June 1, 2011 at 9:20 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Zeb

      Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay W U T...? LOL !!!

      Be nice to my friend, -Zeb, or I will have to open up a can of 'whoop-ass' on ya'...! 😀

      Peace brother...

      June 2, 2011 at 1:27 am |
    • Zeb

      @Peace2All – My name is the latest victim of a hijacking, bro. Those last two weren't mine.
      I'm not using this name any more, so I'm letting you know this post is the last genuine Zeb post.
      Someone wants the lulz, I guess. Oh, well. It's just a random name anyway. Angry people do this sort of thing.
      Anyway, I'm needing a break from this anyway. Have a good one and maybe we'll talk some other time.
      Sorry we didn't have a chance to chat a bit before this hijacking. I'll be doing some posting, just not with the Zeb name any longer. Sorry that whoever it is felt like being a dlck about it. I was laughing at some of the other posts.
      Oh, well. That's anonymous speech for you. It's a nowhere-thing as regards personal relationships.
      See ya round. 😛

      June 2, 2011 at 3:37 am |
    • Sum Dude

      @Peace2All – I should add that this hijacker is very likely the same little grunt and splash that's been spreading the lulz-diarrhea all over the "This Just In" blog. It's hardly worth looking at anymore because of all the childish imposter-posts like "Oh, I'm so gay" and such kiddie things. Once in a while they're funny, but mostly they ruin any chance of getting a word in, there's so many of them now.

      But these are anonymous blogs. We really shouldn't be using names anyway.
      On 4chan, it's set up very intelligently. Anytime a poster deserves to be banned, they are banned – and their posts are deleted with a "This User Was Banned For This Post" or something like that. It works very well. I don't know why CNN can't cough up a few bucks to do the same thing here...as relying upon the "report abuse" button has shown itself to be unworkable.
      They are all about free and anonymous speech there. That doesn't mean that no one gets banned. There are rules to follow that are put forth by the owner of the site. In that respect it is only restricted as to the few rules that govern.
      It is a privately-owned blog, as are CNN's blogs. They can restrict whatever they like, but they have to actually DO SOMETHING about it instead of chortling into their morning cereal at how crazy people can be and how much of their blogs can be turned to crap by someone who can't handle their ability to post any more than they could handle their religion in this case. This is personal, of course, yet who am I? An anonymous person in an anonymous blog who used a temporary alias to enable a bit of continuity to my posts. It really helps when replying to know that one particular person is part of a discussion. On 4chan, it's a mess of single posts by whoever posted. Long conversations are difficult I would imagine.
      Anyway...
      there are no rules enforced here.
      Maybe they don't have the soft-ware tools to do it with.
      Wordpress has the functionality as far as I know, so that is no bar to fixing these little loopholes – or so I would think.

      As to the identlty of this one – BG comes to mind, or maybe Artist is having a bad day, or it could be someone else who is younger than anyone we usually see around here. Certainly some of the posts suggest that. But it doesn't do much good to point fingers in an anonymous blog. Especially one where there is little or no oversight.

      Anyway, I may just take a break anyway. I do have other things to do that don't involve hitting my head against a wall or playing "who's got a secret" with fundies, so don't expect much from me anyway. When I first came here, I tried to post something on every thread. These days I'm surprised if I can find one or two that I feel strongly enough about to bother posting on. I'm getting old, my friend. I don't really need to do this very much, but it can be addictive.
      Now that I've flung a hint at the editors, I'll "sign off" again. Have a good one! – 😛

      June 2, 2011 at 5:43 am |
    • It was Eric - see above.

      So the little 14 year old (probably much younger in truth) fell for the bait.
      Eric / A Gamer / etc. is the one who is going around hijacking the names of known atheists in the CNN blog.
      Read his words if you want to see into the mind of this person. A very sick kid. Probably isn't even 14.
      Well, live and learn. Names without registration just leaves everyone open to this ONE vulnerability.
      We can be anonymous and still register. But our names would be un-hijackable.
      CNN editors take note. This is a simple fix we can all live with. What would you say if Eric started posting with your names?
      Change the blog please. This is getting ridiculous.

      June 2, 2011 at 11:50 pm |
    • Sum Dude

      I is so fed up with 'dis crap, I cant tell ya. This friggin kid making a mockery of my insults, I can't get away with anything anymore. I used to jack people around for hours with my lame-o questions full of bitterness, condescension and insincerity. Now I can't. It's an outrage! Help me, CNN! Come to my pathetic, whiny-ass rescue, because I hate it when other people do what I do and don't play fair! w t f, isn't 'dis da stinkin' cheeze? You really must suck, CNN, for not taking better care of me. Boo hoooo.

      June 3, 2011 at 12:33 am |
    • Zeb one last time

      Wow, how immature can you get?
      Just how old are you really, Eric? 8 yrs old?

      The more ridiculous and immature your posts, the more it shows us all what sort of person you are.
      And it shows me that I must have zinged you pretty bad. So bad you flipped out.
      Well, well, well.

      June 3, 2011 at 2:07 pm |
    • Zeb

      Help me CNN! I've fallen and I can't get up!

      June 3, 2011 at 2:52 pm |
    • Zeb

      Say, Sum Dude, what do you think of my new troll name, Lee M? I thought I might be able to fly under the radar of these ignorant believers.

      How about it?

      June 3, 2011 at 3:00 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.