Your Take: Comments on misquoting the Bible
June 6th, 2011
11:37 AM ET

Your Take: Comments on misquoting the Bible

Our Sunday post about oft-quoted biblical lines that don't actually appear in the Bible struck a chord, with 5,000 comments so far.

Lots of atheists and critics of religion used the piece to ridicule believers, taking several different lines of attack. Here are a two:

Because most people would prefer to be ignorant rather than think for themselves. That is what the whole of organized religion is based on, especially Christianity and Catholicism. Organized religion has never done anything good for humanity in history.

Atheism is Great!
Actually, the bible is nothing more than a collection of stories and moralities written by human beings thousands of years ago who's max age was maybe 30, who thought the Earth was flat, and who did not have access to scientific or medical science/information. It's not from "god" people, god doesn't exist either. Whatever helps you get through your life I guess. I personally don't need that crutch. Have a nice day.

There was also more nuanced criticism of organized religion, with some commenters arguing that the prevalence of biblical misquotes suggested that religious folk have been overly dependent on religious authorities for a long time:

The point to remember here is that just up until very recently, the masses believed whatever their clergy told them. They either didn't have the skills to read (for whatever reason), or simply didn't believe they should read the bible themselves.

I once asked an elderly Catholic where her bible was ... (I love old books and thought her bible would be a real treat to look at ... ) She was horrified that I thought she'd even HAVE one ... Her thought, at the age of 90, was that Catholics are not supposed to read the bible on their own. It was their job to believe what the Father told them, and it was the Father's job to know the bible.

So many times it's either just plain ignorance, or the situation that they come from (IE: can't read, etc) that produces these types of situations. Thankfully we're coming out of those situations, if only little by little.

All the criticism of religion brought out plenty of faithful. One responded to Amanda, the religion critic whose comment is above:

Really, Amanda? I would encourage you to try to prove your statement about no good ever coming from organized religion. I can think of a few well-known and recent organized religionists who have done quite a bit of good – Mother Theresa, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Ghandhi. I can also think of a few anti-religious people who have done a lot of bad – Stalin, Mao, Hitler. "Never" is a big word.

Others believers lobbed ad hominem  attacks on atheists:

Bottom line
Atheists/Agnostics have nothing of substance to do on weekends. Also since they are empty when it comes to faith or beliefs they have to make the attempt to urinate on ones who do so they can feel full and superior.

A fair number of commenters, meanwhile, criticized our piece, arguing that some misquoted scriptural lines have biblical roots:

Many of these phrases many not be in the bible verbatim, but their intent is very much contained in it, specifically "Spare the rod spoil the child". This phrase is a direct distillation of Prov 13:24 & 23:13-14 "He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24) and "Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from hell." (Proverbs 23:13-14).

I find it disingenuously nit-picky to state that a faithful paraphrase of a verse is "not" in the bible.

I find it very disturbing that the "CHAIR" of a "SCHOOL OF RELIGION" would go record as say that the "the devil was not in eden". Kevin Dunn is right in saying that the word "devil or satan" was not mention in Genesis but if Mr. Dunn is "BIBLICAL SCHOLAR" then he should be familiar with the "BOOK OF REVELATIONS" which equates "THE SERPENT, DEVIL & SATAN" as one and the same: Revelations 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world:". And you wonder where people get the wrong impression about things that are "IN" the Bible. Mr. Blake, apparently you did not know your Bible well enough to call Mr Dun on that one.

And, as always, there were plenty of attempts at humor, including this on Adam and Eve eating that apple:

If he didn't want man and woman to eat it, he should have made it broccoli or spinach.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Bible • Comments

soundoff (1,118 Responses)
  1. Joe R.

    Trying again to avoid moderation:

    I have a response to the post by Amanda that was featured in this brief article.

    The world's third largest dis-aster relief group is actually a Chr-istian group, headed by the Sou-thern Bapti-st Conv-ention (I'm sorry, I don't recall the name of the group off the top of my head). Churches are also often times the first ones to jump to the aid of people when di-s-as-ter strikes, and will often stay until long after many others leave. Remember the earthquake in Haiti? My church is sending a group of people every few weeks all year to help with clean-up in that ra-va-ged country. It is also common for churches to set up food and clothing pa-ntr-ies to help the needy. My current church is working on becoming a registered food pa-nt-ry, and my previous chrch had one already set up. Many churches also go to places around the world and set up schools, teaching children to read and write, or will donate hy-gi-ene items or food.

    There have been a lot of ev-il things done by "organized religions" in history. I won't dispute that. Without organized churches though, there would be a lot of people that go without food, without clothes, and without hope. So you cannot at all say that organized religion has NEVER done anything good for humanity.

    June 7, 2011 at 11:02 am |
    • Tom

      Joe, you can do all those things without a belief in the supernatural. And there are plenty of secular non-God-fearing organizations that do just that.

      June 7, 2011 at 11:05 am |
    • Joe R.

      My comment ended up in the wrong space, let me try this again.

      That is true. Secular groups can do all of those things, and I'm glad that there are. That was not my point, however. My point was that many of these groups are Christian groups. So the statement "organized religion has never done anything good for humanity" is false. These are organized relgions doing good for humanity by helping those in need, and some of these groups are some of the larger groups in the world

      June 7, 2011 at 11:10 am |
    • Estevan

      I've been fortunate enough to work overseas many times – often wearing the baby blue beret of the UN. What you say is true: there are plenty of religious organizations who try to do some good in the third world.

      However...there was one big difference between the secular aid organizations (Red Cross, UNICEF, Doctors Without Borders, etc) and the religious ones: the secular organizations gave to anyone needing help without asking for anything back while the religious groups almost all required some kind of devotion or attached religious teachings to their aid.

      The religious aid groups almost always used aid as a bribe to convert people – you get some food/medicine/clothes/help but you have to attend a daily sermon about our god/read this tract/pray, etc...

      Besides....the irony being that religion was one of the underlying motivators and justifications for the colonialism which has lead to the problems we face in Africa today. Religion was used as justification for many of the truly barbarous acts committed by the imperialist powers as they divided Africa into regions regardless of tribes already inhabiting the areas and then justified the colonizer's thought that they knew better than any one else how things should be run. Certainly the push for colonization was primarily a result of economics and politics but religion provided a "justification" for all the terrible acts the colonizers did including slavery, decimation of populations, cultural assimilation, and lordship over the land. As far as I'm concerned, in terms of help, religious groups are simply catching up to all the bad stuff they've done over the centuries...

      June 7, 2011 at 12:26 pm |
    • Joe R.

      Sadly, in the days of collonialism it ofent times was the case that spreading Christianity was used as a justification for taking over lands and changing politics. This is not something that I or any Christians that I personally know support. (As a side note, Christianity is not the only religion which has been used by people to gain territory, enslave people, etc. In the early days of Islam, that religion was spread primarily by way of the sword. While Christianity did take a wrong turn somewhere and followed suit by doing the same, in th earliest days, Christianity was spread by mouth rather than sword.)

      Even still, Christian organizations today still hand out aid and help those in need. Also, I disagree with your notion that Christian organizations only hand out aid on the condition that they listen to a sermon or convert. I too, have first hand experience in this. I have been to Ecuador to small mountain villages with my church youth group when I was sitll in high school. We took with us several medical professionals (doctors, nurses, dentists, pharmasists), and also brought food, medicine, and personal hygeine items. These were all items that we gave out and helped with no matter what. Yes, we would tel them what we believed about God and Jesus, and we hoped that they would decide the same. But that didn't stop us ever from helping somebody if we could. If they didn't want to listen to us, they didn't have to, but if they showed up in a line to get help, they would get help, no question. My current church just recently set out and grilled burgers, hot dogs and provided water for any of hte homeless or needy in our area. We had people that would stand up and give their personal testimony, sing songs, and talk about God, yes, but people were allowed to just simply grab a meal and leave if they wanted. We were not going to stop them. And that is how we'll continue to operate. Christians aren't going to sotp telling people about Jesus. The Bible commands that we share the Gospel. But we won't not help people that need it just for not listening to us.

      June 7, 2011 at 2:55 pm |
  2. justlivingnormal


    June 7, 2011 at 10:59 am |
    • Estevan

      Ease up on the caps lock.....

      June 7, 2011 at 12:27 pm |
  3. Tom

    As atheists and agnostics, I always wonder if we should take a live and let live approach to religion. But there are so many instances of religion's unwanted intrusion in the public sphere: obstruction of stem cell research, "intelligent" design, gay marriage, women's reproductive freedom, foreign policy, climate change, etc. (not to mention, raising ficitious divisions between people and fostering an atmosphere of ignorance, stupidity, and fear). As such, should we free-thinkers start protesting churches and mosques? Should we hold signs up outside their gatherings saying "the Bible is fiction" and "think for yourself?" Is this futile or a much needed counter-intervention?

    June 7, 2011 at 10:55 am |
    • Sybaris


      Why should religion be protected?

      Influencial and powerful people develop public policy and guide the nations direction based partly on their religious dogma which has no more basis in truth than Pippy Longstocking.

      June 7, 2011 at 11:07 am |
    • Estevan

      I would be willing to take a live and let live approach to religion but the Jehovahs who woke me up this morning reminded me why I just can't....

      June 7, 2011 at 12:28 pm |
  4. fixed that for you

    So, umm, how come this "god" can't even put together a book that's not subject to interpretation and vulnerable to misquoting. For that matter, how come god needs a book at all to communicate?

    The "big guy" can't even blog, for that matter. Not even capable of a friggin tweet. That's one obsolete, incapable "god" you've got for yourselves there. News for you: your god doesn't exist, and your bible is one big set of fairy tales, some of which are pretty darn nasty.

    June 7, 2011 at 10:52 am |
  5. jason

    If God/Allah/Supreme Creator exists and created us in his/her/its image, then he/she/it is an absolute failure, considering the fact that his/her/its creation has been killing it's own since day One. Free will is always the knee-jerk reaction to this stance, but I reject that, as a perfect creator is only capable of crating a perfect creation who would only make perfect choices. Fallibility in the creation implies fallibility in the creator. Remove an infallible creator from the world's book religions and everything else in that ideology is moot.

    Live life by the Words in Red, regardless of who spoke them, or if they were ever spoken at all:

    Give love, forgiveness, compassion freely to your fellow man and it will come back to you. It's a pretty simple concept that seems incredibly difficult for our species to implement.

    June 7, 2011 at 10:44 am |
  6. MJB

    People have a choise to believe or not. So not condem anyone. You can read into the bible our hear an preacher etc tell yiu wnat they think. certainly the words show morals, character, how to treat others, how to forgive and the list goes on and on on being a human being. obivously children do not get these attributes growing up and end up killing each other, robbing, raping, and that list goes on. The majority of people in all countriess that are christian, buddist, Muslim ( not radical Muslims) are good people for the most part and it shows.

    June 7, 2011 at 10:41 am |

    Sadly, I understand how many non-believers could not believe in GOD. After all, once you found out that santa/the easter bunny/tooth fairy and even pink unicorns didnt exist because you couldn't see them or because your didn't hit the lottery or because it didn't snow when you prayed really hard in 3rd grade because you had a big test, your gaurd went up and that was that. Even sadder is the fact that many people are 'indoctrinating or teaching' their kids the same beliefs.

    No amount of theologians/science experiments/books or even force fed broccoli can make me not believe in my one TRUE GOD. It is ultimately very hard to convince anyone that opposes a belief system, but I believe because I have faith. By saying that there is nothing after death or we just go into nothing or nowhere is puzzling to me. That's like saying that you're on the same playing field as Hitler when you die. If you lived your life believing there is a GOD and find out you were wrong, you lose nothing...but if you lived your life not believing and find out you were wrong, you lose everything.

    June 7, 2011 at 10:31 am |
    • SeanNJ

      @REVEILEB: You said, "By saying that there is nothing after death or we just go into nothing or nowhere is puzzling to me."

      That's why you believe what you believe. Fear of the unknown. Once you come to terms with that, you be a lot less conflicted and a lot happier.

      June 7, 2011 at 10:34 am |
    • Sean

      Please don't assume I have the same simple-minded approach to my atheism as you do to your belief system.

      June 7, 2011 at 10:43 am |
    • Soggymoist Biscuitjuice


      June 7, 2011 at 10:57 am |
    • Moosess

      Funny, according to the bible Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens. No Time. Sounds empty.

      June 7, 2011 at 10:57 am |
    • Sybaris


      You were born an atheist.

      Think about that for a good long while.

      June 7, 2011 at 11:00 am |

      @ SeanNJ...Trust me, I am not conflicted and I am very happy! Once you become a believer, you'll realize the error of your ways and then you'll know what happiness is...if you never believe, tell Satan not to wait for me.

      @Sean (#2)...I didn't assume..you did. You calling my belief system 'simple-minded' just shows how ignorant you are to the TRUTH. I pray that all everybody will come to know JESUS personally, I really do, but its called free will and if you never do, please reread the last line of my post.

      June 7, 2011 at 11:05 am |
    • Soggymoist Biscuitjuice

      Moosess: haha that is like saying that this brochure I have here for the Bahamas says there's absolutely nothing there so don't go.

      June 7, 2011 at 11:05 am |
    • Rob

      Your last sentence shows why it takes much more faith to be an atheist. I am not going to use religion as a safety blanket, I truly believe (have enormous faith) that there is no god. Now, I also have no issues with someone who wants to believe in god, I just don't like being told I have no faith, when my beliefs have to be extremely strong, because being wrong means I go to hell.
      If you lived your life believing there is a GOD and find out you were wrong, you lose nothing...but if you lived your life not believing and find out you were wrong, you lose everything.

      June 7, 2011 at 11:14 am |

      @ Sybaris...how you figure I was born an atheist. Atheist-an 'unbeliever in God or deities: somebody who does not believe in God or deities'. I didn't make a conscious decision as I was being birthed to believe or not. Apparently you must have. Again, reread my post and YOU think for a long while as how silly your reply was.

      June 7, 2011 at 11:17 am |
    • JeramieH

      "find out you were wrong, you lose nothing" – Pascal's Wager? Can't y'all come up with anything new after a few hundred years?

      June 7, 2011 at 11:23 am |
    • Sybaris


      Here's a challenge for you. The next time you're in your church meeting and someone starts talking about how the congregations prayers healed their sick relative I want you and your parishoners to start praying for an amputee, any amputee. They could have lost a limb or the tip of their finger, doesn't matter. Fire up your prayer chain and get hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands to pray for the regeneration of this amputees lost appendage.

      It won't happen, I guaruntee it. It doesn't matter what caveat you try to use to explain why it didn't happen, the fact remains, it didn't happen and you'd just be making up an excuse with no basis in truth.

      June 7, 2011 at 11:28 am |
    • Sean

      Ah, but you clearly do assume. You state we believe in your deity because of disappointments in our lives. I called your approach to your belief system simple-minded, not you. I don't live my life like there are no gods; it doesn't come into question for me. I live my life the best way I can. If you can't do that without fear of punishment or promise of reward in an afterlife you have no cause to make reference to anyone's ignorance.

      June 7, 2011 at 11:32 am |

      @Rob...I respect your belief because its what you believe, but I feel strongly about my belief and that why I say that unbbelievers will got Hell. Again, if you are wrong, what happens to you? Do you vaporize into air-dust-what is nothing made of-where do you go (help me see your side, not that I will be coming over)

      @ JeramieH...read above reply...

      June 7, 2011 at 11:40 am |
    • Sean

      A very well-made point about everyone born not believing in deities. I got it even if REVEILEB didn't.

      June 7, 2011 at 11:43 am |
    • Sybaris



      When you were born you were devoid of knowledge. You didn't even know what 2+2 was. For that matter you didn't know what religion was, who Jesus, Muhammed, or Vishnu were, or had the concept of a god.

      Unless you understand how cognitive processes evolve during childhood development then you won't understand how your environment led you to adopt your religion.

      June 7, 2011 at 11:50 am |

      @Sybaris...thats classic...cant you think of anything better to come up with over the years and didn't you use that example in a different posting article...anyway, Jesus healed many crippled/diseased people-can you prove that HE didn't...have you ever cut your finger or broken a bone? How does 'nothing' heal that and why do your finger prints return when you cut your finger, unless you cut your finger tip completely off?

      @Sean...of course you 'got it' about being born an atheist...you have nothing to prove and I'm not 'infuriated', but like the chapter says, 'Religion is learned.' I also wasn't born a 'believer'. I had to come to that conclusion myself by way of free will.

      June 7, 2011 at 12:17 pm |
    • Vee

      REVEILEB: "Jesus healed many crippled/diseased people-can you prove that HE didn't."

      No, sorry, that is not how it works. The person making the claim is the one who must provide the proof. If I claim that there is an invisible purple frog sitting on the top of my computer monitor, I must prove it. You cannot disprove it.

      June 7, 2011 at 12:52 pm |

      @ Sybaris...'Unless you understand how cognitive processes evolve during childhood development then you won't understand how your environment led you to adopt your religion.'

      I am sorry that your environment led you to adopt a religion of atheism; however, for me to be born an atheist, I would have to have a clear choice of atheism or Christianity or Islam or whatever...2+2=4 because it was proven to me. Atheist is defined 'as somebody who does not believe in God or deities'...which one did you pick when you were 1 second old??

      June 7, 2011 at 1:10 pm |

      @VEE...'No, sorry, that is not how it works. The person making the claim is the one who must provide the proof. If I claim that there is an invisible purple frog sitting on the top of my computer monitor, I must prove it. You cannot disprove it.

      If you were drowning and I said grab this rope, would you have faith that it is safe to grab-or would I have to prove that?
      You cannot see the air that you breathe every second, yet you believe that it is there and you keep breathing!
      Why should it be any different with GOD or JESUS? Because you haven't seem HIM, does that mean HE isn't there?

      June 7, 2011 at 2:07 pm |
    • SeanNJ

      @REVEILEB: Your handle is very fitting, since your viewpoints are clearly sdrawkcab-ssa.

      June 7, 2011 at 2:30 pm |
    • Artist

      "Why should it be any different with GOD or JESUS? Because you haven't seem HIM, does that mean HE isn't there?"
      and that also applies to the 1000's upon 1000's of other gods, Flying Santa, Easter Bunny etc. Do you have a point?

      June 7, 2011 at 2:35 pm |
    • ScottK

      "If you were drowning and I said grab this rope, would you have faith that it is safe to grab-or would I have to prove that?"
      Did you just compare belief in an invisible deity to belief in a rope that was just thrown to you when drowning? Is it an invisible rope thats intangible when touched? Because if your standing on the boat while I drown waving your empty hands around above my head yelling "Grab the rope! Grab the rope!" you better hope I don't survive.

      June 7, 2011 at 2:37 pm |

      @SeanNJ...my viewpoints are sdarwkcab because...you can't come up with anything against me to prove I'm backwards-
      @Artist...my point is because I can't physically see GOD, my faith and heart know he is ALIVE...Santa and the Easter Bunny are real-some people call them 'Mom'and 'Dad'
      @Scott...shouldn't matter what I compare, invisible means invisible...whether a deity, rope, or what ever..TO ME, believing in GOD means you LIVE, not believing (atheist) means keep reaching for that rope and hope you can swim!!

      June 7, 2011 at 9:18 pm |
    • Sean

      You've shown you don't understand what atheism means. You don't need to make a conscious decision to be one. You don't have to decide to be an atheist. If you don't believe in supernatural deities, you are one. You don't need to know people think they're there!

      June 9, 2011 at 7:39 pm |
  8. Marie Kidman


    June 7, 2011 at 1:21 am |
  9. So True


    June 7, 2011 at 12:54 am |
  10. Eliteamericans


    June 7, 2011 at 12:07 am |
    • HaveYouRead TheBible

      You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. (Matthew 5:43)

      June 7, 2011 at 12:15 am |
    • HaveYouRead TheBible

      The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 2 Corinthians 10:4

      June 7, 2011 at 12:18 am |
    • Muneef

      Come on man the guy just enjoying shooting lawize ? She must been a lady who gave him a hard time....!

      June 7, 2011 at 1:31 am |
    • Billy O

      As an atheists I don't disregard all that is written in the bible per se however I believe the world has seen far too many examples of biblical passages being used as weapons against various groups of people. The bible as with other holy books has been used by extremists to achieve goals by having followers do horrific things to fellow human beings. How is it that people will kill for religious beliefs when religions tell us that murder is the greatest offense to "god".

      Once raised a catholic I understand why the vatican discouraged it's flock from reading and interrupting the bible. It kept them from splintering the way protestants have over the last 400 years. A central church like a central government is stronger than satellite churches some of which become fringe or worst radical. This is what freaks atheist out about religion, it all to often is open to wild versions that have strayed from a few good ideas, loose cannons without logic or reason.

      June 7, 2011 at 9:59 am |
    • Muneef

      Billy O.

      I do understand your point of view very clearly and do feel sorry that such extremists give us all the fear of supporting the word of God when such people are on the lead....but still we ought to quest for the truth and be with God in remembrance and prayers with out the need to join organized extremists...since I feel it is not right to break up with God because of mankind faults of misrepresentation and understanding....

      June 7, 2011 at 8:46 pm |
  11. American

    CNN is Disgusting (and most of the media for that matter)

    Does anyone believe this stuff??

    What does this have to do with news anyway. They should just go get a real job.......................OH I forgot ............its all about money.........and socialistic, global warming, fear factor, lying, hypocritical, agenda.

    June 6, 2011 at 11:44 pm |
    • Finger Puppet

      Well, so far there are 6,883 comments on this these boards that may indicate to CNN that there is some slight interest in these questions. FYI, there is no CNN cartoon blog, and no socialist paranoia blog but I wish you luck.

      June 7, 2011 at 11:00 am |
  12. Friend

    The American non-believers won't be able to say any humor on Judgment Day because it will be proven how seriously evil they are.

    June 6, 2011 at 11:20 pm |
    • Free

      Why? Unless Judgment Day only happens in the USA, but I think few outside of the States really care about it. Still, there are plenty of non-believers elsewhere in the world, you know?

      June 6, 2011 at 11:48 pm |
    • Sean

      Your impotent anger amuses me. Thanks.

      June 7, 2011 at 5:44 am |
    • Eric G

      The last attempt at discourse from a believer with no evidence or argument........


      June 7, 2011 at 8:36 am |
    • jason

      Didn't that happen a couple weeks ago? I'm just sayin'

      June 7, 2011 at 11:03 am |
  13. jame

    Before you people try to argue about the Bible and what it says you should read it FIRST. because it is totally obvious that most of you don't have a clue what the bible says and what life is all about.

    June 6, 2011 at 9:54 pm |
    • Sybaris

      Once again a common fallacy that atheists haven't read or understand the Bible. The irony is that having studied the bible is precisely why most of us are atheists.

      June 7, 2011 at 10:44 am |
    • Jame

      You are the biggest Fools of all.

      June 7, 2011 at 1:40 pm |
  14. Muneef

    From the Quran we understand that The Devil or Satan has a team that will try their best to get believers strayed from the straight path ;

    [7:11] We created you, then we shaped you, then we said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam." They fell prostrate, except Iblees (Satan); he was not with the prostrators.

    [7:12] He said, "What prevented you from prostrating when I ordered you?" He said, "I am better than he; You created me from fire, and created him from mud."

    [7:13] He said, "Therefore, you must go down, for you are not to be arrogant here. Get out; you are debased."

    [7:14] He said, "Grant me a respite, until the Day of Resurrection."

    [7:15] He said, "You are granted a respite."

    [7:16] He said, "Since You have willed that I go astray, I will skulk for them on Your straight path.

    [7:17] "I will come to them from before them, and from behind them, and from their right, and from their left, and You will find that most of them are unappreciative."

    [7:18] He said, "Get out therefrom, despised and defeated. Those among them who follow you, I will fill Hell with you all.

    June 6, 2011 at 9:11 pm |
    • Muneef

      That makes us believers facing more attacks from the Devil to stray us from the straight path, since he will not bother with those already strayed with out his interference.... So you see even if we think we are at the straight path,we might not be because he might have misled us to worship son of man or images rather than God, or might have made us become polytheists or idolators with out us realizing how wrong we are no matter which religion we might follow that does not make them safe.

      June 6, 2011 at 9:18 pm |
    • ToMuneef GodLovesYouMyFriend



      June 6, 2011 at 9:41 pm |
    • Muneef

      Do not know the speaker on the clip but I think he is not that educated since we as mankind have many feelings so would God have....say for example he should study the 99 or more names of God in which he would learn what feelings God has within him....
      Another thing here we are talking about three parties here which can be found in the first sura of the Quran giving us that people who would be judged would be three parties;
      1)- The Rightous. (Followers of the straight path).
      2)- The Wicked. (Followers of Satan).
      3)- The Astrayed. (Maybe meaning 50/50 mixed of both first and second).

      Beside another thing God in some other verses made it clear to us that to him there would be Two Parties;
      1)- Those who would follow God's straight path would end up in paradise.
      2)- those who would follow Satan's wrong path would end up in Hell with him..

      June 6, 2011 at 11:10 pm |
    • Muneef

      It is more about being obedient or disobedient...as when talking to a son of yours saying son I like it when you do this and that it pleases me but do not like it when you do this and that because it angers me....!? Or are you saying we should tell our sons that we like them what ever they do wrong it was or right ??

      June 6, 2011 at 11:16 pm |
    • Muneef

      The second issue if we leave behind the first two three points and hold to the last where he wanted us to relay on caveman knowledge with out advancement when it was obvious that scriptures were gathered from generation to generation through Adam to Noah to Abraham to Moses to Jesus and Finally Muhammed s.a.w.s...that was not because there were stages before completion but rather because man manipulated or forged facts for some vasted interests or by unintentional errors...the complet picture was finally given through a live poetic language in order it does not become easily manipulated with and gone unnoticed beside it came in a way that is easy for people of the the native language to memorize by heart the contents of it so whether you being literate or not you still can recite it from memory....

      June 6, 2011 at 11:40 pm |
    • Muneef

      Watch out you are being targeted;

      [15:28] Your Lord said to the angels, "I am creating a human being from aged mud, like the potter's clay.

      [15:29] "Once I perfect him, and blow into him from My spirit, you shall fall prostrate before him."

      [15:30] The angels fell prostrate; all of them,

      [15:31] except Iblis (Satan). He refused to be with the prostrators.

      [15:32] He said, "O Iblis (Satan), why are you not with the prostrators?"

      [15:33] He said, "I am not to prostrate before a human being, whom You created from aged mud, like the potter's clay."

      [15:34] He said, "Therefore, you must get out; you are banished.

      [15:35] "You have incurred My condemnation until the Day of Judgment."

      [15:36] He said, "My Lord, respite me until the day they are resurrected."

      [15:37] He said, "You are respited.

      [15:38] "Until the specified day and time."

      [15:39] He said, "My Lord, since You have willed that I go astray, I will surely entice them on earth; I will send them all astray.

      [15:40] "Except those among Your worshipers who are devoted absolutely to You alone."

      [15:41] He said, "This is a law that is inviolable.

      [15:42] "You have no power over My servants. You only have power over the strayers who follow you.

      [15:43] "And Hell awaits them all.

      [15:44] "It will have seven gates. Each gate will get a specific share of them."

      [15:45] As for the righteous, they will enjoy gardens and springs.

      June 6, 2011 at 11:48 pm |
    • ToMuneef GodLovesYouMyFriend

      Assalamu Alaikum. Thank you for your reply. I am spending time reading over it. Have you considered this man though? I wonder what your thoughts are on this.

      June 6, 2011 at 11:57 pm |
    • Muneef

      Well friend here the sound was low and the speaker speaks fast couldn't make out what he is saying or discussing but seen that the young man was mentioning about some laws in christianity were not complete but the speaker took him different areas of talk and got him lost of words before leaving the stage....
      He was more of a magician than a speaker really... While the answer was simple that yes both Christianity and Islamic laws were based on the Torah...after all the three were actually one but being in old languages that had died and through the process of translation it lost the jewel that was within it towards which God had sent Jesus to correct it but had paid the price for trying to do so...then finally God decided that the Children of Israel would let no prophet come and change any thing of their words of the book...for that had to send the message through the Children of Ismael but again not been accepted by the Jews because it upset them that the message was not through the children of is real and again because they underestimated ismael son of Hajer who they considered to be the slaves of Abraham and not as a wife and a child of his....that why they will never admit that the Quran came with the true message.

      June 7, 2011 at 1:59 am |
    • Muneef

      Beside that the Quran states that God has given Jesus the Angeel which you call it the Gospal although as seems your Gospal was written after Jesus death? In such case I wonder where is the Angeel which Jesus had written directly and not that been written after his death;

      [5:46] Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.

      June 7, 2011 at 2:13 am |
    • LearnThe Truth


      June 7, 2011 at 9:46 am |
    • John Richardson

      Muneef – You are correct that this professional Christian speaker is an uneducated oaf. They tend to be that way. It's something of a job requirement.

      June 7, 2011 at 11:36 am |
    • Cindy Loohoohoo

      John Richardson:

      It is not hard to believe. I've read your comments. Why is it so hard for you to believe in truth and so easy for you to believe in a lie? You may want to (again) read the g o sp els. Want you?

      June 7, 2011 at 11:55 am |
    • Muneef

      The truth is that Christianity would have not been wronged if had taken Jesus as being the prophet and messenger of God just as Muhammed is taken in Islam by us.... Again she should had retained her direction of worship prayers heading towards Jerusalem as had always been for all before Muslims had been changed to Mecca by the order of God in the Quran...therefore refraining from the images and crosses that could be translated as idol worship...so on...

      Wonder if some one will be allowed to establish such church belief among the other Christian branches since only those can be considered as in "Submission" since what messes all is the (Father,Son,Trinity issues)...only that made Christianity different from Islam...

      June 7, 2011 at 8:32 pm |
  15. Cleveland Jim

    HItler wasn't an atheists. People didn't read the bible because it was illegal to own a copy in any language but latin, and people didn't read much because books and education were expensive. But amanda was right, compared to the bad things that come from religion, nothing good has ever come from religion. I can't believe how ignorant theologists are.

    June 6, 2011 at 8:57 pm |
    • CanIBeAnon

      The basic society in which we live ultimately rose from religion. The morality our society attempts to purvey cam from religion. The notions of freedom and equality came from a religious base in many cases.

      I myself am an atheist, but to ignore what religion HAS done is foolish.

      June 6, 2011 at 9:48 pm |
  16. Stephanie Dunn

    To Reality:

    Jesus, a simple, preacher man??


    June 6, 2011 at 8:37 pm |
    • Stephanie Dunn

      oopsies! i didn't mean to post it twice. i thought the first one didn't show up. my bad! ;p~

      June 6, 2011 at 8:38 pm |
    • Unbeliever

      This is what we get? Jesus is God because the bible says so and because we have A.D. and B.C.? Really? Pull the other one.

      June 6, 2011 at 11:02 pm |
  17. Tom Sawyer

    For all of you people who seem to think that science somehow disproves God, think again!


    June 6, 2011 at 7:47 pm |
    • John Richardson

      There are laggards in every group.

      June 6, 2011 at 8:08 pm |
    • Tom Sawyer

      Do you have the patience of someone willing to listen to the entire hour of what John Lennox teaches. If you were to listen to him, you may not be so quick to call such a leading thinker a 'laggard'. It's very easy to throw labels around at people who speak a message of something that may be contrary to your own opinion. But you may just find that if you listen to the facts these people present, and put your prejudices aside, you just might see the truth of the matter.

      June 6, 2011 at 8:24 pm |
    • John Richardson

      I've sat through Christian apologetics lectures, had a semester of Christian ideology in what was supposed to be an ethics course in college and on and on. I have more than enough patience to sit through an hour of more of the same. Just not much motivation. I'll watch his debates. Just recently saw Christopher Hitchens vs Tony Blair. Not a bif Hitchens fan, but he was the only one making any points.

      June 6, 2011 at 8:51 pm |
  18. Reality

    And then there are things that should not be in the bible:

    Saving Christians from the Resurrection Myth:

    From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

    Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.

    To wit;

    From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:

    "Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
    Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.

    Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.

    Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.

    The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.

    Only Luke's Gospel records it. The Assumption ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "

    "In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."

    With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:

    o An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,
    o "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

    o p.168. by Ted Peters:
    Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "

    o So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.

    June 6, 2011 at 6:52 pm |
    • Gah!!! More Copy/Paste!!

      Gah! More Copy/Paste!

      June 6, 2011 at 6:54 pm |
    • Stephanie Dunn

      Jesus, a simple, preacher man??


      June 6, 2011 at 8:35 pm |
    • Reality

      Countering 2000 years of myth th-umping with some reality th-umping.

      June 6, 2011 at 11:52 pm |
    • Free

      Stephanie Dunn
      Liar, Lunatic or Lord? Besides those three options how about Jesus being honestly mistaken? There were dozens of other wandering preachers and lots of hopes for a messiah. He could have just been caught up in his follower's expectations, which may explain his fateful decision to go to Jerusalem that final time.

      There's also the possibility that he was simply just a preacher with no ambitions of being anything divine, and that his later followers, like Paul, actually lied about him being something more. Lied, or lost something in the translation from the Jewish scripture into the Roman, pagan world. "Son of God" in the OT didn't have the same meaning as a son of a god did to folks brought up with the myths of Hercules, and other Greek heros.

      Finally, it is still debatable whether Jesus actually lived, or is a composite of several preachers, Greek heros and other mythic characters. I'm more inclined to think that a preacher did exist that was the root, but that a lot of stuff got borrowed in the making of his legend, again because of the mistranslation of Jewish concepts into pagan mindsets. The preacher in the video simply stating that Jesus existed is just the form of ad nauseam propaganda that Christianity has used since the beginning.

      June 7, 2011 at 8:16 am |
  19. Marie Kidman


    June 6, 2011 at 6:04 pm |
  20. Nicole


    June 6, 2011 at 6:04 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.