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June 9th, 2011
07:30 PM ET

Liberal Catholics to discuss future of church

By Chris Boyette, CNN

(CNN) - Left-leaning Catholics from around the globe will convene in Detroit this weekend for a meeting to discuss what they believe to be the need for reform, openness and greater democracy within the church, according to the American Catholic Council, the organization hosting the convention.

The council is a coalition of more than 30 Catholic reform groups dedicated to opening discussion about the current state and future of the church.

Calling the conference "a weekend of worship, education and dialogue," convention organizers intend to call for financial transparency and democratic decision-making within the church, a recommitment to social justice, marriage options for priests and greater roles for women, possibly including the priesthood.

To arrive at these discussion points, conference organizers held forums with Catholics across the country.

"We've held 'listening sessions' all over, asking Catholics, 'what does being Catholic mean to you?' 'What issues within the church are important in your geographical area?' and 'How do we resolve current conditions causing problems within the church?' " said Janet Hauter, co-chairwoman of the council.

According to Hauter, the conference expects 1,500 to 1,800 people Friday through Sunday.

Some Catholics do not agree with the American Catholic Council's views. Archbishop of Detroit Allen Vigneron sent a letter to local priests and deacons Friday, warning Catholics to stay away from the conference, especially the Mass scheduled for Sunday.

"To confirm the legitimacy of what they had planned, the ACC had been asked to provide details regarding this liturgy," the letter read. "The response received was ambiguous, and there are good reasons for believing forbidden concelebration will take place by the laity and with those not in full communion with the Church."

Vigneron cited a lack of communication on the part of conference organizers for failing to gain the blessing of the church.

"The idea that we are a schism is a farce," Hauter said. "Our liturgy will fall within the norms and rules of the church."

She continued, "A year ago, we sent a copy of everything we had to the diocese and heard nothing back.

"Every time the diocese released another statement against the conference, our registration went up, so that must tell you something," she said.

According to the Archdiocese of Detroit, it will support a more conservative conference the same weekend in Livonia, Michigan, promoting church doctrine and traditional views.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Bishops • Catholic Church • Christianity • Church • Mass • Michigan • United States

soundoff (189 Responses)
  1. brad

    Here we are again. Liberal churchmen/women trying to make the Church relevant to the times. Anytime something is tied to the zeitgeist, it passes with the zeitgeist. Judas attempted to make Jesus "relevant" to the times. "He's our man! He'll throw out the Romans and re-establish Israel as of old." Judas is dead, Jesus lives on because His kingdom was not of this world.
    These "catholic" liberals will be buried by the Church they want to make relevant.

    These liberals want the church to tell them what they WANT to hear. The Church tells them what thy NEED to hear.

    June 10, 2011 at 10:48 am |
    • Colin

      So, here we have it, almost as if on cue. A textbook example of dogmatic, small-minded Catholic thinking. I guess the one upside is that, this type of view is still so pervasive in the church, it is integral in fuelling the church's inexorable slide into irrelevance.

      June 10, 2011 at 10:54 am |
    • gerald

      Colin, you have your prejudice glasses on. Orthodox Catholicism is not at all small-minded. It's mind is guided by truth. Error causes one to be small minded. One does not get far in Math for instance if he believes 2 + 2 is 6. But if one continues on with true mathametic principles one can reach great depths. THe human mind is full of error and needs to be righted. But you rely on your own wisdom and understanding or lack thereof.

      June 10, 2011 at 11:43 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Brad (ORIGINAL RESPONSE ACCIDENTALLY POSTED ON ITS OWN)
      Are you saying that teh Church's policies should remain forever unchanged?
      So long heliocentrism! Time to brand Galileo a heretic again after taking 300 years to admit he might've had a point.
      Time to toss Einstein and Hubble out the window and go back to believing the Universe is 6000 years old – never mind what Pius XII said.
      Evolution? Nyet. Pope Jean Paul II was full of it, stinking liberal that he was. Humanity comes from clay and ribs.
      I guess this means the Vatican never stopped selling their "get out of hell free" cards, so I can buy an indulgence or two...

      June 10, 2011 at 11:49 am |
    • gerald

      Doc, you back again with your nonsense. Show me a council or papal statement officially given to the whole church saying that one must believe in heliocentrism? Galileo's problem was not his views on the universe but when he crossed the line in to theology.

      June 10, 2011 at 11:56 am |
    • Colin

      Hey Gerald, you don't see anything slightly inconsistent in saying the church is not small minded and then unilaterally declaring it is "driven by truth"?

      Have a look at Doc Vestible's posting above for some examples of Catholic "truth".

      June 10, 2011 at 11:58 am |
    • Colin

      Gerlad, so it was Ok to threaten Gallileo with torture and death because he "crossed thel ine into theology"? And how, exactly did he do so? If the Church says the sun goes around the Earth and mathematics says it doesn't (you know, like your 2+2=6 example above) is calling out that error "theology"?

      June 10, 2011 at 12:01 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Gerald (WHOOPSY! DID IT AGAIN WITH THE DOUBLE RESPONSE)
      In 1616, Pope Paul denounced Copernican theory after Galileo published "Letters on Sunspots", which the Pope believed to be a threat to the church's position as the arbitors of Truth.
      In 1620, Cardinal of St. Cecilia and Bishop Albano, the Secretary of the Congregation, placed Copernicus' book, De Revolutionibus, on the Index of Prohibited Books, which resulted in Orthodox Catholics not being allowed to read it for two centuries.
      In 1626, The Vatican demanded that Galileo renounce heliocentrism despite the vast amounts of evidence he had collected, because the Bible spoke nothing of his discoveries therefore they thought them false. In response, Galileo published "Dialogue on the Two Great Systems of the World" – all about how the Church viewed science.
      It was then that the Catholic Church brought him before The Holy Office of the Inquisition and officially branded him a heretic. They only allowed the old man to live out his remaining years under strict house arrest because he publicly recanted in order to save his life.

      June 10, 2011 at 12:17 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Gerald
      Anything else I can clear up for you?

      June 10, 2011 at 12:19 pm |
    • gerald

      Doc, I asked for dogmatic statements. Decrees of condemnation are not dogatic statements for the whole world. Sorry.

      I suggest you read this for a little clearer understanding of the events.
      http://www.catholic.com/library/Galileo_Controversy.asp

      June 10, 2011 at 12:52 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Gerald
      "Decrees of condemnation are not dogatic statements for the whole world. "
      No, but banning books and threatening execution is an attempt to deny the whole world access to facts.
      The Catholic church holds as dogma that the totality of the Bishops is infallible, when they, either assembled in general council or scattered over the earth propose a teaching of faith or morals as one to he held by all the faithful.

      When the Church hierarchy unilaterally denied and subsequently suppressed Copernican theory, they declared their views as the infallible, unalterable Truth.

      June 10, 2011 at 1:01 pm |
    • Colin

      Gerlad – nice try. You tried to bulls*t him, and he called you on it.

      Doc 1 Gerlad – nil.

      Get over it and move on. Haven't you got some wit.ches to burn or something.

      June 10, 2011 at 1:01 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Doc

      June 10, 2011 at 1:09 pm |
    • gerald

      I suggest you read the article. Galileo had not proven his theories and spoke as if he did. He could not account for paralax problems and astromony of the day was not capable of accounting for these issues. He presented theory as fact. It's easy to apply the hindsight of today to the issue and point fingers. Then Galileo went a step further and proposed errant theology based on his hypothesis. When the Church condemns a book it is not that they whole book is false and Galileo was even allowed to write about heliocentrism after the condemnation of his work.

      June 10, 2011 at 1:11 pm |
    • LinCA

      @Doc.

      http://www.goohf.com/card.gif

      June 10, 2011 at 1:11 pm |
    • gerald

      Colin, you didn't bother to read the article either did you.

      June 10, 2011 at 1:11 pm |
    • Artist

      Gerald that is called "owned". However I have a feeling your self denial will continue. lol

      June 10, 2011 at 1:12 pm |
    • Artist

      Gerald, so do you think the church acted properly and just authority?

      June 10, 2011 at 1:16 pm |
    • Artist

      The point here is the absurdity and abuse of power expressed by the catholic church. The chruch had and still ahas no business in scientific matters or study. Witch doctors, priests, witches, soothsayers etc have their place outside of rational thought.

      June 10, 2011 at 1:22 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Gerald
      So you don't think that the Church was mistaken in preventing their followers from reading Coperinicus' work for a couple of hundred years?
      How about when Giordano Bruno was burned alive for proposing ideas that have since become the foundation of cosmology?
      The Index Librorum Prohibitorum didn't disappear until the mid 1960's! I don't know about you, but I find censorship to be a grievous affront.
      Some of the people whose ideas were deemed perilous to the very souls of Catholics were Jean Paul Sartre, Voltaire, Denis Diderot, Victor Hugo, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Immanuel Kant, David Hume, René Descartes, Francis Bacon, John Milton, John Locke, and Blaise Pascal.

      By the way, the current Pope said as recently as 1985 that "the Index retains its moral force despite its dissolution".

      June 10, 2011 at 1:23 pm |
    • Artist

      Galileo was found "vehemently suspect of heresy", namely of having held the opinions that the Sun lies motionless at the centre of the universe, that the Earth is not at its centre and moves, and that one may hold and defend an opinion as probable after it has been declared contrary to Holy Scripture. He was required to "abjure, curse and detest" those opinions
      ---------–
      God bless the catholic church.

      June 10, 2011 at 1:25 pm |
    • Artist

      You know you have to wonder if the catholic church has EVER been relevent??? I do give props for support of the arts and feeding the hungry.

      June 10, 2011 at 1:27 pm |
    • JohnR

      @Gerald "I suggest you read the article. Galileo had not proven his theories and spoke as if he did." Ah yes, the old "your theory isn't proven, so it's okay for us to ban your work for not conforming to OUR unproven theory". Brilliant. The Catholic Church would be much more credible if they admitted that their errors and errors and their sins are sins, just like anyone else's. But right up to this day with their pedophilia white wash, the church fails to pass moral muster.

      June 10, 2011 at 1:32 pm |
    • Artist

      JohnR Brilliant. The Catholic Church would be much more credible if they admitted that their errors and errors and their sins are sins, just like anyone else's. But right up to this day with their pedophilia white wash, the church fails to pass moral muster.
      ------–
      Simply put the catholic church lacks integrity. This is why they qualify as FAIL. Kind of like looking at a classic car, interesting history, pretty to look at (art) but not relevent to the times....outdated. The catholic church has its spot on the shelf ti tled Mythology reserved.

      June 10, 2011 at 1:41 pm |
    • Artist

      Can you imagine if there were still people claiming Zues existed? When they make costumes of you, you know your time is numbered.

      June 10, 2011 at 1:44 pm |
    • gerald

      Both Benedict XVI and JP II have quite clearly condemned the acts of some priests. What are you talking about.

      June 10, 2011 at 1:44 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Gerald
      Of course, once the scandal came out in the open they HAD to condemn the pedo priests.
      A couple of years back, the Irish government found that the Church's "pre-occupations in dealing with cases of child se.xual abuse were the maintenance of secrecy, the avoidance of scandal, the protection of the reputation of the Church, and the preservation of its as.sets. The welfare of children, which should have been the first priority, was not even a factor to be considered" it said.
      "Instead the focus was on the avoidance of scandal and the preservation of the good name, status and assets of the inst.itution and of what the insti.tution regarded as its most important members - the priests."

      June 10, 2011 at 2:14 pm |
    • Artist

      Artist

      Gerald, did any pope or leader of the church come out prior to the scandal or was it only after? posted in wrong place before

      June 10, 2011 at 3:23 pm |
    • Artist

      Doc Vestibule

      @Gerald
      Of course, once the scandal came out in the open they HAD to condemn the pedo priests.
      A couple of years back, the Irish government found that the Church's "pre-occupations in dealing with cases of child se.xual abuse were the maintenance of secrecy, the avoidance of scandal, the protection of the reputation of the Church, and the preservation of its as.sets. The welfare of children, which should have been the first priority, was not even a factor to be considered" it said.
      "Instead the focus was on the avoidance of scandal and the preservation of the good name, status and assets of the inst.itution and of what the insti.tution regarded as its most important members – the priests."

      ------
      Doc are you implying that the catholic church held its reputation above the bible, fellow christians and chuldren????

      June 10, 2011 at 3:25 pm |
    • gozer

      Gerald is unable to comprehend basic logic. Not worthwhile to attempt discussion with him. Better to spend time educating the young about critical thinking and science, so they don't become indoctrinated with the Christian supersti-tions, or other religious delusions.

      June 10, 2011 at 9:39 pm |
    • CatholicMom

      Brad, I agree.

      These people who love to call themselves Catholics and form groups using the word ‘catholic’ in their name such as American Catholic Council, are people who do not hold to true Catholic Teachings. They are not of the true Catholic Family which Catholics hold to with Pope Benedict VXI as the ordained leader of the Church following in St. Peter’s footsteps.
      Anyone can go on line and read the AMERICAN CATHOLIC COUNCIL DECLARATION FOR REFORM AND RENEWAL
      Here are just two paragraphs from it….

      The disciples of Christ became a New Testament community of Churches, democratic in believing the Spirit was given to all. These communities were never perfect. St. Paul tells us there was factionalism as well as harmony and confusion as well as clarity. Nonetheless, these communities proved themselves reliable and became the embodiment of the living Christ. They selected their leaders and held them accountable. They recognized a wide diversity of charisms and ministries, validated not by one person or office, but by the community at large.

      The inclusive, collegial model lasted for centuries. It led to a global Church, the conversion of the Roman Empire, and the first Ecu-menical Councils. It created a spiritual and sacramental Tradition that continues to enrich our lives. A Church from below proved itself trustworthy with the Gospel and responsive to the creative Spirit.

      My comments on their above mentioned statements follows……

      The disciples of Christ became a community of Churches but they did not throw out the Old Testament. They did not believe the Spirit was given to all but by Baptism Acts Of Apostles 2:38 But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. St. Paul warns: Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema. [How many times does he have to say it?]

      These were not separated communities but one catholic community in union with the Church that Jesus Christ founded.
      The leaders of these Church communities were ordained men through the lineage of St. Peter and they were accountable to the head of the Church and Councils NOT by the laity. 1 Thessalonians 2:4 But as we were approved by God that the gospel should be committed to us: even so we speak, not as pleasing men, but God, who proveth our hearts. Galatians 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

      [and from the gospel of Luke we have]…. Luke 4:43
      To whom he said: To other cities also I must preach the kingdom of God: for therefore am I sent.
      No one has the right to preach the gospel other than someone who has been sent. Jesus Christ sent out His Apostles with the same Authority that He was sent by the Father…they are ordained priests for this mission. No one can send themselves.

      And what is this comment they make… ‘a church from below’? The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ and He inst!tuted the Sacraments…the Church is His House of God and no one has the right to take Truth and try to twist it to make it please some personal whim.

      June 11, 2011 at 5:01 pm |
    • Mildred the Mouth

      @CatholicMom
      Is there an on-line version of the "Catholic Test", or are you the one who administers it ? What is the passing score ?

      June 12, 2011 at 7:16 pm |
  2. FairGardern

    @William: atheists mock things they can never experience. Pitiful creatures.

    June 10, 2011 at 10:22 am |
    • William Demuth

      I mock that which is worthy of mockery.

      Your illness is apparent to all, yet you still revel in your own madness.

      Your God is a lie, one that you embraced so deeply that you are beyond salvadge.

      Just remember, insanity is NOT a defense, so live by the laws of man, or you WILL be held accountable.

      June 10, 2011 at 10:28 am |
  3. FairGardern

    Democracy creates only a Sodom-like community when people are immoral. People for all time constantly need godly education from those who properly learned the Bible. Truth is not determined by the majority but by plain teachings revealed in the Word of God. Everyone needs to read and study the Bible. The only way democracy works.

    June 10, 2011 at 10:19 am |
    • William Demuth

      We killed your supposed savior once, and I can assure you if he shows his scrawny Palestinian butt anywhere in my sight I shall execute the same sentence as the Romans and nail him up in the town square.

      June 10, 2011 at 10:32 am |
    • William Demuth

      And Fair

      If you REALLY want to understand sodomy, I can arrainge it for you.

      Just kneel on this here Altar, and I can give you the Body Of Christ.

      June 10, 2011 at 10:46 am |
    • FairGardern

      Sodomy does interest me, I have to be honest.

      June 10, 2011 at 1:09 pm |
    • Mr. Fluffy Bunny Conquers North Korea !

      William, if Jesus returns in the way he did the first time, in the form of a human, the Christian will be the ones oppressing and killing him.

      June 10, 2011 at 6:53 pm |
    • Friend

      The second FairGardern is a false one. The unbelieving, anti-christian Americans are the most disgusting species on eath.

      June 11, 2011 at 4:02 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      @FairGardern, (aka Adelina) (aka etc., etc.)
      "Democracy creates only a Sodom-like community when people are immoral."
      So...for someone who is always sticking her nose in American matters, (a democracy), you have a pretty low opinion of it, no ?
      "People for all time constantly need godly education from those who properly learned the Bible. Truth is not determined by the majority but by plain teachings revealed in the Word of God. Everyone needs to read and study the Bible. The only way democracy works."
      So...are you the one who's going to write the "bible test" to determine who "properly learned it", and thus qualify for (your democracy and it's leadership), or is that someone else ? If it's all that "plain". why is there such a huge diversity of opinion on that so-called "revelation" ? Couldn't an omniscient almighty being be a bit more clear ?

      June 11, 2011 at 9:59 am |
  4. Truth on Church

    "The one concern of the devil is to keep Christians from praying. He fears nothing from prayerless studies, prayerless work and prayerless religion. He laughs at our toil, mocks at our wisdom, but trembles when we pray." - Samuel Chadwick

    June 10, 2011 at 10:12 am |
    • William Demuth

      Lets see how you feel about this when you need a pain killer or an antibiotic.

      Prayer is the bleeting of sheep, screaming out the fear of their own mortality.

      It is a trademark of the pathetic, who refuse to accept our destiny is in no hands other than our own.

      Get a grip, this world, and our very destiny shall be determined by the choices we make, so leave the BS for the simpletons.

      June 10, 2011 at 10:17 am |
  5. William Demuth

    Are they having an orphange doing the catering?

    All the eight year olds you can eat?

    Liberal Christian is like saying Multicultural Klansman!

    June 10, 2011 at 9:40 am |
    • Michael Bauman

      I agree. I'm not Catholic, but I have never understood the arrogance of people that want to change the core teachings of the faith to fit their own preferences. If you don't like the teachings, there are plenty of places available for you to practice your beliefs. I'm not talking about abuse, immorality, illegal actions, etc, but the traditional values, teachings, practices and structure of the Church.

      Christianity is not a a buffet. It is not democratic in its traditional forms (Roman Catholic and Orthodox). If you really want to be Catholic, go more deeply into the faith discover the source and reason for the teachings, practice the humility that is a pre-requisite of genuine Christianity. If you can't or won't do that, go somewhere else.

      June 10, 2011 at 10:01 am |
  6. GSA

    @David Johnson – you are awesome and so are your comments sir, well done.
    Liberal Catholics, sounds like that would be rare like a peaceful terrorist.

    June 10, 2011 at 9:31 am |
  7. CW

    Another leftist wing group trying to live with one foot in the world and one foot in church.

    I bet they go on record as being "ok with the g-ay" lifestyle.

    June 10, 2011 at 8:51 am |
    • David Johnson

      @CW

      Probably. Maybe even pro-choice. I'm just sorry that they are talking about the Church having a future. Do you think they missed my comments?

      Cheers!

      June 10, 2011 at 9:05 am |
  8. Reality

    What should be presented :

    origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482

    "New Torah For Modern Minds

    Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

    Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.

    The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment."

    Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

    The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

    earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

    For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

    Current RCC problems:

    Pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

    June 10, 2011 at 12:15 am |
    • Thatswhytheycallmethedoctor©

      Mustn't leave out any details, mr. i-follow-some-stuff-without-thinking-because-i-am-programmed-too.
      Time for your annual neuron cleansing.

      Please assume the position and say "I should not try to control others if I cannot control even control myself" over and over until you have experience the full cleansing effect. 😯
      [Afteraffects may include: disillusionment, harmony, and agreement with actual reality.]

      June 10, 2011 at 6:27 am |
  9. Freethinksman

    I grew up in Catholic family. Cathloic grade school, high school, and college. I didn't get it then and I don't now. Reading these posts is exactly like watching my 13 year old nephew and his friends argue about the nuances of Dungeons and Dragons. It's silly. The whole notion of having to subscribe to a dictated set of man- made rules in order to gain salvation is comic. How is it that people inside the Catholic club don't see this? Really. How can one subjugate one's faith to another's decree? Either you believe it or you don't. Do people really bend what they believe to conform to a set of man made rules? How pathetic is that?

    June 9, 2011 at 11:20 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Well, because Christians are sheep.

      Dangerous sheep.

      Somehow I am reminded of the rabbitt Harvey form Monty Python. All furry and gentle till it rips your throat out.

      June 10, 2011 at 9:43 am |
  10. MisterDobalina MisterBobDobalina

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw7jR5nGpdY&w=640&h=390]

    ;p~

    June 9, 2011 at 9:52 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Strange, but this looks like this guy is playing pocket pool.

      He must be a scout troop leader.

      June 10, 2011 at 9:49 am |
    • Sean

      By what right does this guy bear a passing resemblance to Leslie Nielsen? This is an outrage!

      June 12, 2011 at 3:46 am |
  11. KoolKeith

    🙂 😉 😀

    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms2ajqlNHeI&w=640&h=390]

    🙂 😀

    June 9, 2011 at 9:48 pm |
  12. gerald

    Instead of general absolution, which is probably what this group will do at some point during the confernence, the bishop of this diocese should just do a general excommunication. These people are not for reform, they are for destruction. Women priests will never happen. Christ never appointed any and neither should we.

    June 9, 2011 at 9:36 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      "Women priests will never happen. Christ never appointed any and neither should we."

      1. Priests are ordained, not appointed. But you are exactly correct, JC never "appointed" ANY. The development of the position of presbyter came later.

      2. Women priests are already a reality, both in the Catholic Church and in the Anglican Church, I've been to a Mass celebrated one one.

      June 9, 2011 at 10:26 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Gerald

      In case no one told you, Christ is a fabrication, like Santa Claus or the Incredible Hulk.

      If he hasn't done something in the past, we can just make up another story that says he did, like we did in the walk on water episode.

      You see, WE determine what Christ did. But remember, you must be in the union before you are allowed to make stuff up.

      June 10, 2011 at 9:46 am |
    • gerald

      Bucky Ball – If Newt Gingrich declares himself president tomorrow will you say he is president? No, of course not because he has not authority within the organization called the united states to make such a declaration. There are no women priests in the Catholic Church. Sorry. Anybody can fake a Mass and put on some vestments but they have no authority to do what they are doing.

      June 14, 2011 at 2:46 pm |
    • gerald

      Christ never existed? Really? and I am the one who has delusions......

      June 14, 2011 at 2:46 pm |
  13. frank

    They're just confused.

    June 9, 2011 at 9:02 pm |
    • Colonel Major Worthington

      And confused people make mistakes, errors in judgment, errors that affect others to an intolerable degree.

      June 10, 2011 at 7:15 am |
  14. John Richardson

    People who think the Catholic Church doesn't have a left wing must have missed out on Central and South American liberation theology and must also know little about the European clergy, including an avowedly Marxist bishop recently deposed because of that pedo thing. Even in America, the Catholic Church sometimes criticizes the gov't from the left, as in their stance against capital punishment.

    June 9, 2011 at 8:55 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      ...and their opposition to the Ryan/Boehner budget.

      June 9, 2011 at 9:02 pm |
    • RightturnClyde

      That "liberation theology" was another instance where the hierarchy SHOULD have put an end to it (godless Marxism is not Christian doctrine). These are all part of the many reasons why the R.C. church in the U.S. failed. It began very strong with Irish, Polish, Italian 1st – 2nd – 3rd generation for membership .. including Czech, Hungarian, Latin, E. European. But then it took a hard left turn and they lost that membership during the 1960's and 1970's - and the people on the "left" were not Catholic or even Christian. They were Marxists (black and Latin mostly), gay-lesbian (mostly atheist) and left wing extremists. (hippies, anti-war radicals) .. Those people do not build .. they take. So they took and built nothing while the older Catholics became unaffiliated "Christian." Archbishop Cody single handedly destroyed the Chicago area Archdiocese. Cardinal Mahoney destroyed Los Angeles. (I am not familiar with the east coast - same type of destructive leadership)

      June 10, 2011 at 12:33 am |
    • RightturnClyde

      My comment was not approved - basically agreeed

      June 10, 2011 at 12:34 am |
    • Calling BS

      @RightturnClyde
      [citation needed because you are so full of crap]

      June 10, 2011 at 5:32 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      @RTC
      I am not all that familiar with Cardinal Cody's activities, but I seem to remember reading that it was more his personal peccadilloes, (his affair with Helen Wilson, and his repeated diversion of funds), that was responsible for his fall from grace, than it was his theological stances.
      The question of what began the long slow decline of the RC church in the US as I see it, was as more about the jettisoning by an "elite" of the vast rich cultural heritage of this group, ( which they had grown up with from the cradle), as it had to do with any theological debate. It left the "man in the pew", including my great grandparents, angry, confused, and disillusioned.

      June 10, 2011 at 8:27 am |
  15. frank

    PETA Bull-Fight Fans meet to discuss future of organization.

    June 9, 2011 at 7:59 pm |
    • Squirrel-Juggling Jesus

      Oh that's good. Can I try?

      "G-ay Catholics meet to discuss the future of or-gies in St. Paul's Cathedral."

      "Nudist Muslim women meet to discuss the future of see-through burqas."

      Nope, yours was better.

      June 9, 2011 at 8:17 pm |
  16. Eric G

    Well, I was going to stain the deck this weekend, but I can't miss this! Right in my backyard!

    June 9, 2011 at 7:48 pm |
    • gerald

      One of these conferences makes the news, while your protestant Churches have episcopalians, lutherans, and presbyterians ordaining gays.

      June 9, 2011 at 9:38 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      Gerald.. some churches, then, have moved on then from group hate and have adopted a more human persona.. at some point yours may evolve similar characteristics.

      June 10, 2011 at 12:44 am |
    • chief

      re gerald.... its always easy to point at the others.... blah blah blah....

      June 10, 2011 at 9:52 am |
    • Eric G

      @gerald: As opposed to the Catholic Church ordaining pedophiles.

      June 10, 2011 at 11:17 am |
    • gerald

      Eric, check out the work of phil jenkins. There are plenty of peds in your protestant clergy. It's just that nobody is talking about it much.

      June 10, 2011 at 12:04 pm |
    • Jason A

      gerald, the proddies haven't instltutionalized pedophilia anywhere that I've heard.
      The RCC has the pedophilia built into the Church. They did it centuries ago. It was common knowledge in those days just as it is now.
      Proddie churches don't play "protect the criminal" at anywhere near the level that the RCC does. They have long-standing policies in the RCC to protect pedo-priests. Those official policies created a long-standing instltutional support for pedo-priests. And what the RCC says is supposed to be "from God", so you have no defense, no excuse, nowhere to turn.
      Your RCC fails as a church, as a religion, as an instltution, and as a concept.
      Those children have been suffering for centuries. Where is your defense of them? Nowhere.
      You should be executed for defending the intractable horror that the RCC became all those centuries ago.
      But that is just my opinion. Don't let me catch you in a dark alley, gerald. You will not like it.

      June 10, 2011 at 8:01 pm |
    • To gerald

      gerald, the proddies haven't instltutionalized pedophilia anywhere that I've heard.
      The RCC has the pedophilia built into the Church. They did it centuries ago. It was common knowledge in those days just as it is now.
      Proddie churches don't play "protect the criminal" at anywhere near the level that the RCC does. They have long-standing policies in the RCC to protect pedo-priests. Those official policies created a long-standing instltutional support for pedo-priests. And what the RCC says is supposed to be "from God", so you have no defense, no excuse, nowhere to turn.
      Your RCC fails as a church, as a religion, as an instltution, and as a concept.
      Those children have been suffering for centuries. Where is your defense of them? Nowhere.

      June 10, 2011 at 8:16 pm |
  17. frank

    Liberalism in a fascistic desert voodoo cult? Makes sense...

    June 9, 2011 at 7:47 pm |
  18. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    "Liberal Catholics"? Totally one of the best examples of an oxymoron.

    June 9, 2011 at 7:45 pm |
    • Alyssa

      "Liberal" is not a fixed point. They may not be what we call liberal in the American political system, but they are liberal for their organization's tenets.

      June 10, 2011 at 8:07 am |
    • William Demuth

      Alyssa

      Based on that logic, a Nazi who supported only killing Jewish women, but not men might be a liberal?

      When your belief systems center is SOOOO far to the right, you have to swing a whole lot more than this to be liberal.

      No if they came out and admitted that Jesus is merely a fable to seduce the ignorant, I might grant them the liberal name!

      June 10, 2011 at 9:53 am |
  19. The Dreary Reality of Catholicism

    It's "The Conference On How To Be Ignored And Rebuffed By Your Own Religion!"

    The Catholic Church does not want your ideas or your constructive criticisms, and don't even think about mentioning the pedophilia/obstruction scandal as being anything other than a conspiracy of antiChrists to destroy the Church. The Catholic Church only wants you to obey absolutely and give them as much money as you can.

    Obey. It's a Catholic's only option.

    June 9, 2011 at 7:39 pm |
    • gerald

      Your full of crap dude. There has been a lot of open discussion of the pedophile scandal within the Church. Many changes as well. You speak from the outside not knowing what you are talking about. But liberalism that crept in to the Church is a big part of why the scandal erupted. I'm not going to bother explaining it to you because you won't hear me anyway. This group will not help anything.

      June 9, 2011 at 9:34 pm |
    • The Dreary Reality of Catholicism

      Hey, you are a great comic writer, gerald!

      "There has been a lot of open discussion of the pedophile scandal within the Church" Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! That's a good one! "Many changes as well." Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! That's an even better one! I guess invisible changes are consistent with the belief in invisible friends.

      But the very best – "liberalism that crept in to the Church is a big part of why the scandal erupted" HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

      Oh that's just precious! Thanks much for the laugh. I needed it.

      June 9, 2011 at 11:37 pm |
    • Dan Wau

      I laughed too. Really you guys need to stop lying about stuff...or do you really believe all that crap you're shoveling?
      Doesn't matter anyway. You're wrong on the internet. That is like a massive crime or something.
      And saying things that just aren't true is just dishonest. Not always knowingly, but dishonest nonetheless.

      June 10, 2011 at 6:42 am |
    • chief

      gerald is a priest trolling these blogs deflecting truths about the church and peds

      June 10, 2011 at 9:47 am |
    • William Demuth

      Gerald

      Having a circle jerk with a half a dozen buttered up eight year olds in Saint Peters is NOT having a constructive dialouge about the molestation issue.!

      June 10, 2011 at 9:55 am |
    • gerald

      Dreary you only show your ignorance and prejudice. The FACT is that there were only 6 new cases of child abuse by Church emplyees last year. There has been a huge education campaign in the Church on this issue. All teachers and priests must take training on child abuse and all children in Church schools are taught on the issue. Those outside the Church who hate it only laugh and scoff. Yet prove themselves ignorant.

      June 10, 2011 at 12:02 pm |
    • gerald

      Cheif, that you spreading lies about me again. God bless ya man, your gonna need it on judgement day for God's command says "thou shall not bear false witness.". You won't fair too well on that.

      June 10, 2011 at 12:05 pm |
    • Sean

      @gerald
      Hey, "only 6 new cases" – they must be very proud! I also like the "just you wait 'till Judgement Day" angle.

      June 11, 2011 at 12:38 am |
    • Sean

      @gerald
      The phony piety/humility of "God bless ya" was a nice touch, too!

      June 11, 2011 at 12:39 am |
  20. Not having any

    Democracy within the church? What? Since when does any religion vote on their stuff? Give me a break.
    This is just a ploy to draw back all the people who cannot stand the crazy stuff the church has been doing for centuries.
    They should try asking their god what he thinks. If he says nothing, then they should dissolve the church forthwith.

    June 9, 2011 at 7:38 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      Well actually they do vote a lot, all the time. Even this group, which currently seems to have lost the knack for this, used to vote a lot. They used to chose their bishops and other leaders by vote, in the old days, (in their old traditional forms), before the "new" traditions were set up and promulgated as the "real "ones. Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopalians all DO vote on various questions.
      I was actually invited to this meeting, but thought it would be disingenuous to attend since my stance on many things has moved to outside their "scope", but the fact that Joan Chittister OSB is a presenter, would be reason enough just to go watch, as she makes the hierarchy squirm, (as you may have seen her do on Bill Moyer's programs on PBS).
      It is also ironic that that Episcopal Parish in Maryland this week, as reported in the Washington Post, had voted to (re)join this group. I wonder if they understand it was likely the last time they vote on anything.

      June 9, 2011 at 8:17 pm |
    • Colonel Major Worthington

      Democracy is just a way of placating the herd so they don't get out of hand, you see.
      Much like their other dishonest and underhanded tactics, democracy is a weapon against the poor and oppressed.
      Representing other people never quite works, you see. Corruption has been having its day for thousands of years.
      Religion is not immune to corruption. Religion can often be a sort of corruption of society when people take themselves and their beliefs too seriously.
      Basing your beliefs on the words of other people is depraved and immoral, for you are putting your lives and souls into unworthy hands. Who is trustworthy? No one, not even anyone mentioned in the Bible. They were just frauds, you see.

      June 10, 2011 at 7:31 am |
    • Alyssa

      They ask their god all the time. Strangely enough he never responds. Either he doesn't care, or he isn't there. I'm for the latter.

      June 10, 2011 at 8:09 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.