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Your Take: Comments on evangelizing Weiner
June 15th, 2011
11:12 PM ET

Your Take: Comments on evangelizing Weiner

Tuesday's post about one of the nation's leading evangelicals encouraging scandalized U.S. Rep. Anthony Weiner, who is Jewish, to try Jesus instead of therapy garnered upward of 900 comments.

Some commenters defended the evangelical leader in question, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary President Albert Mohler:

lindsbry
Nothing wrong with what the evangelist guy said ... People – he's an evangelist!!

mikey
If you didn't already know, Christianity comes from Jewish roots. SO what if he tries to speak to a Jewish man about Christ, it is for the Jew first then for the Greek (Gentiles) ... Jesus is the only way.

Others said that Mohler was out of line:

Lila
Weiner needs therapy or some kind or counseling ... Not religion. Certainly not someone else's religion. Absurd!

copanut
It's typical of the pathological thinking that infests so many Christians. It's all about guilt, self-loathing, and arrogant assumptions. The guilt and self-loathing is expressed in forms such as "He, like all human beings, is a sinner". There is just this wide-open assumption that there is such a thing as "sin" and that everyone is guilty. The arrogance is revealed in the breathtaking statement that the only solution to this affliction is "atonement" via "Jesus". Where do people get that gall to make such statements? Where do they get the nerve to assume that their personal psychological experience somehow invalidates all others? Weiner is sickening, but people like Mohler are worse. Far worse.

And, as per usual, many used the story to riff on religion generally and related subjects:

Doc Vestibule
Therapy, Jesus, Prozac, Television, Marijuana, etc. ad nauseam.
The United States has a lot of options for distraction and anesthetization to keep the citizenry complacent.

Jon
I love this fascination with sin. If God created man in his own image then why didn't he create man with the ability to not sin? No, not only did he know that Man was going to sin he did nothing to stop it and punished Man anyway. Now THAT is a loving God!

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Christianity • Comments • Judaism • Politics

soundoff (193 Responses)
  1. Marie Kidman

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGSvqMBj-ig&w=640&h=360]
    `

    June 23, 2011 at 10:51 am |
  2. Keith

    I couldn't tell who was going to have a longer political career...Weiner or Khadafy, now I know.

    June 18, 2011 at 10:23 pm |
  3. A Christian

    To Un-Believers:

    In their case the god of this world (Satan) has blinded the minds of the UN-BELIEVERS, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
    (2 Corinthians 4:4) ESV

    For some have already strayed after Satan. (1 Timothy 5:15) ESV

    That ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world (Revelation 12:9) ESV

    Those people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.
    (Revelation 9:6) NIV

    If God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment ( 2 Peter 2:4) ESV

    Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:15) NIV

    The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.
    (Proverbs 16:4) ESV

    Who (Jesus) wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
    (1 Timothy 2:4) NIV

    June 18, 2011 at 9:41 pm |
    • LinCA

      Yes, you read fairy tales. What's your point?

      June 18, 2011 at 11:04 pm |
    • AgMom

      Yes, I am a Christian and I am proud of it. Suppose I'm wrong and this life is all there is? I still enjoy having my life and hopefully my life will have positively affected others. BUT, suppose you are wrong and there is a life after your earthly death and you end up being tossed into the lake of fire to burn forever and ever? It's your choice??? Think about it. God is a loving God and does not want any to perish, but it's a decision each person must make for themselves.

      June 20, 2011 at 3:20 pm |
    • Christian Schizophrenia

      AgMom

      Yes, I am a Christian and I am proud of it. Suppose I'm wrong and this life is all there is? I still enjoy having my life and hopefully my life will have positively affected others. BUT, suppose you are wrong and there is a life after your earthly death and you end up being tossed into the lake of fire to burn forever and ever? It's your choice??? Think about it. God is a loving God and does not want any to perish, but it's a decision each person must make for themselves.

      -------
      For those whose faith is ruled by fear, they might make the safe choice. But then again they never truly had faith and will perish anyway.
      .
      Your jesus is not a person I wish to worship or follow. In fact I think your jesus was in need of professional help. In fact, when you look at the gods man has created, yours is probably one of the bigger failures of the bunch. Simply put, your god is not worthy of praise of worship and is quite pathetic/pervert/murderer/crappy landlord.

      June 20, 2011 at 3:28 pm |
    • LinCA

      @AgMom.

      Pascal's wager again.

      This only holds true if ALL of the following assumptions are correct, or have at least a better than 50% combined chance of being correct:
      1) There is a god
      2) This is the only god
      3) This one god is the christian god
      4) This christian god is as you describe him/her/it
      5) Your god doesn't care if you "fake it" and gives full credit for pretending to believe

      So, what if you are wrong? One of the thousands of other gods is real and yours is not? You will have lived your life in fear, worshiping the wrong god and still end up in some form of hell.

      I choose to live the life that I know I have.

      June 21, 2011 at 12:51 am |
  4. James Black

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGSvqMBj-ig&w=640&h=360]
    ..

    June 18, 2011 at 9:05 pm |
  5. frank

    I just think it's funny that this little shaved spider monkey apparently thought he was all buffed and sechsy lol.

    June 16, 2011 at 6:30 pm |
    • Sayin Stuff

      So you don't find him "sechsy". Okay. Will we find YOU "sechsy" if you post your junk-pics?
      Just sayin'

      June 16, 2011 at 6:55 pm |
  6. James Black

    [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGSvqMBj-ig&w=640&h=360]

    June 16, 2011 at 4:54 pm |
  7. CDub

    this guy is off da chain.
    go to youtube and search this phrase " Anthony Weiner looks like Quagmire from Family Guy "
    funny but true. watch and see. lmao
    or click this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr83Fs7WJEA

    June 16, 2011 at 4:43 pm |
  8. Joe from CT, not Lieberman

    What a bunch of Mamzers! All these Meshuggener Goyim invoking Jeheshue bar Yosef's name as a resolution for Congressman Weiner's problems.

    June 16, 2011 at 3:17 pm |
    • lydia

      perfect comment:) Thank you!

      June 16, 2011 at 4:13 pm |
  9. ScottK

    Question to all ye Christians – Would you feel the same about Mr. Weiner if the photos he took of himself were meant to be sent to his wife? Would it have been ok for the media to show the junk shot's in the 24/7 news cycle if they had been intended for his wife? Would that not have been considered an invasion of privacy even if it was an errant mis-tweet?

    It seems to me like most people are upset at "the junk photo" because they had to look at it when it was not meant for public viewing. The only part of this story that casts a bad light on Mr. Weiner is that he was showing other women his junk other than his wife. Has anyone here checked out chatroulette? I mean come on, their more teets & peeniz than you can shake your stick at... If nothing else, Mr. Weiner is just another American male that was outed as a "perv" by our ever changing technology. The fact that this would not be a story if he was not in congress should be the story.

    June 16, 2011 at 1:00 pm |
    • Joe R.

      No, it wouldn't be a problem if the pictures were only ever intended for his wife. If they were intended for his wife, but accidently tweeted to all his followers, then that is awkward and embarras-sing, akin to having your pants fall down in public, but not wrong. What is wrong with what he did is that he was having an af-fair with a woman/women, then tried to lie about it to cover up. No, he may not have actually had s-ex with the women, but it was still an af-fair nontheless, just a different kind.

      I'm not sure what Chatroulette has to do with this. Exposing yourself with that site isn't any better than what Wei-ner did, it's just as bad.

      You are right that this wouldn't be a story if he wasn't in congress. Because he is in congress though, means that he is automatically in the public eye and scrutiny. He is seen as a leader, and leaders are held to higher standards because of their increased responsibility. His indiscretions have the potential to cause more harm than your average person.

      June 16, 2011 at 2:28 pm |
    • Joe R.

      Sorry, forgot to address one other thing in your post. In my oppinion, the media circulating his tweet had it been intended for only his wife would indeed be an invasion of privacy. This would not be unlike if you this time pulled somebodies pants down, took a picture of it, and sent it to all your peers maliciously. In this case, this is a real news story, because a political leader has been caught in an af-fair and lied about it publically. I htink tThe nature of how he was caught is fair game for the press. That being said, I would still say that the actual images or words in the tweet do not need to circulated. The story can be relayed without graphic detail. The tweets and pictures should only be brought out again in the event that they were used as evidence in a trial of some kind.

      June 16, 2011 at 2:35 pm |
    • Chris

      No....what makes Weiner repulsive really has little to do with the photos and moral bankrupcy he's shown. It's about his judgement, which IS a required attribute to be an effective politician. Rather than owning up to his mistakes immediately, he deemed it wiser to make up a crackpot hacker story, blame Andrew Breitbart and other people who allegedly had it out for him and then actually yell at the media who asked him why he simply didn't request an FBI investigation. He was arrogant, abrasive, showed TERRIBLE judgement, and pretty much proved that he sucked as a human being. All of that, far more than the pictures, made him a write off as far as being an effective politician.

      June 16, 2011 at 5:27 pm |
  10. Betty J. Cooper-Ritchey

    I think Mr. Weiner's religious preference has no real relevance. His basic problem seems to be that when cornered he prefers lying to the truth. This goes more to a character fault than to what his religion is or has been. He must first work on being able to confront situations that are unpleasant and deal with them in a TRUTHFUL MANNER.

    June 16, 2011 at 12:12 pm |
    • ScottK

      And I'm sure that everytime you were confronted by something that might be embarra ssing you volunteered the truth right away regardless of how it would make you look. Yup, if theres one rule of thumb I've learned, Christians never lie...

      Well, except for... Mark Foley, Ted Haggard, Larry Craig, Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, Eddie Long, George Rekers, Coy Privette, Joe Barron, Paul Crouch, Lonnie Latham and many many more prominent Christian leaders who have all been caught and all, at least at first, denied their wrongdoing.

      Any Christians here who think to themselves after seeing Mr. Weiner "See, it's those darn pervy democrats that we need to get out of government" is either so ignorant as to be laughable, or so blinded by their faith as to be easy pickings for the wolves in sheeps clothing they so often rally around.

      June 16, 2011 at 1:24 pm |
  11. mikey

    I wish not to debate whether or not Jesus is real, because your heart is not open to the fact that He is. SO instead of attacking back which is what you want, I'll just let you be. I've already shared what is essential, and what matters. Good day!

    June 16, 2011 at 11:13 am |
  12. mikey

    A relationship with Jesus, is more fulfilling than arguing over a CNN page. Why don't you all calm down, and know real peace. Everyone is a sinner, I a Christian am no different than anyone else. I still SIN, so now that that's out of the way, there's only one way you'll know peace. SEARCH for Christ and you WILL find Him, if you search with all your heart. If you doubt, your searching will be futile, if you don't you searching with be rewarding. Eternity starts now...

    June 16, 2011 at 10:37 am |
    • gozer

      A relationship with your imaginary sky friend jesus will not save you from the harsh realities of the world around you and your inevitable decline and demise. Get past your stupid supersti-tions, stop wasting your life on your idiotic religion, and stop being an embarrassment to humanity.

      June 16, 2011 at 10:50 am |
    • Renee

      But I don't believe in sin as you believe it. I have a goddess who does not allow my negative actions stack up so I can be judged for the past, but rather shows me what is bad and good in the present. This guy has been taught his lesson, what he does with it is up to him.

      June 16, 2011 at 11:10 am |
    • PRISM 1234

      One says :"A relationship with your imaginary sky friend jesus will not save you ....another one says :"I don't believe in sin as you believe it..."

      But what does it mater what people's opinions are? There is ONE TRUTH, and it stands above any man's opinionn! And it is that we are all are efallen cratures, with SIN desease!

      When Mohler said :"There is no effective ‘treatment’ for sin. Only atonement, found only in Jesus Christ" he spoke THE TRUTH!

      This Truth applies to every human being alive! All we need to do is look around and see the decay and coruuption of human carachter in this world we're living in.... If anyone is not convinced by now, it is because he's living in denial! But it is hard for us people to face reality of our condition, unless we humble ourselves and asdmit what we are made out of....

      If there is a deadly epidemic rava-ging the earth, killing multi-tudes of people, do we who have the cure refrain ourselves from offering it, being the only thing we have to keep them from dying? (Yeah, the greedy, corrupt capitalist -pharma-mafia would only see the oportunity for proffits. )....... but that's basically what the question in original article was asking....because should we not worry that we may offend........ Oh, what wretched human race we are!..... Should we worry to offend the dying, and just let them die?

      There is no person alive that does not need Jesus Christ, because He is THE ONLY salvation, the very Lamb of God whom He sent to redeem fallen mankind. Through the power of His resur-ec-tion He is able to give new life to all those who come to Him by faith in His finished work on the Cross, casting their sins far as the East is from the West, to remember them no more, and bringing healing to the broken lives.
      No person on this earth deserves to have this great amazing offer of mercy, forgiveness, and love kept hidden from them!....

      We all are beggars in this world, having come into it with nothing, and we will leave it with nothing . Who is there among the " high and mighty" that will say in pride, he doesn't need this offer of mercy?
      If there are those who in the folly of their proud and arrogant hearts and in blindness that has darkened their minds they don't see their beggarly condi-tion, and who think it to be an offence when they are told of their need, it is no loss to the bearer of this blessed news if the one who hears it refuses ...

      But by no means should those who know the truth silence their voices!

      Because if the ungodly in their folly think that their voices with their beggarly opinions are important, how much more important is The Truth we speak, and the message of hope we bring to those who are weary and know that they are poor and needy in this world, longing to be set free by God's grace and His unmeasurable mercy?

      This is the truth that does not depend on approval of men, It is settled forever, and stands above any man's opinion, IT IS INFINITE ! And if millions upon millions years pass, with all that exists in this universe turning to dust, this truth will never fade, nor ever change.
      Blessed are those who don't turn away, shutting it out of their hearts! Blessed, happy and free are those who are not ashamed, nor refrain themselves from proclaiming it!

      June 16, 2011 at 11:37 am |
    • myweightinwords

      See, first you have to convince me that I sin. The concept of any deed I do on this earth being so heinous as to remove me from the Divine embrace is completely foreign to me.

      Therefore, if I do not sin, there is no need to be saved from sin. No need of blood sacrifice to atone, no need for a redeemer.

      June 16, 2011 at 11:46 am |
    • Nonimus

      @PRISM,
      Don't you understand the it is only your opinion that there is only one truth and it is Jesus Christ?

      June 16, 2011 at 11:49 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Sin lies ony in harming others unnecessarily.
      All other 'sin' is invented nonsense.

      June 16, 2011 at 12:22 pm |
    • ScottK

      @Prism – You realize that you sound as fanatical and crazy as Muneef right?

      June 16, 2011 at 12:43 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @mikey

      You said: "Everyone is a sinner, I a Christian am no different than anyone else. I still SIN, so now that that's out of the way, there's only one way you'll know peace. "

      Everyone is a sinner, if they subscribe the religious or moral laws of Christianity. I am an Atheist I don't sin.

      The things that are outlawed, or that I think are reprehensible, I simply do not do. If I look at a woman and wish she were mine, for the next ...3 minutes, I don't think of it as sin. I use the words God Damn when I feel the need. I play golf on Sunday...no guilt. I really like my neighbor's lawnmower, and wish it was mine. These are not my sins.

      Morals are relative.

      Cheers!

      June 16, 2011 at 1:26 pm |
    • ScottK

      @David Johnson – but sadly, not all relatives are moral...

      June 16, 2011 at 1:30 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @ScottK
      Could you provide an example of an absolute moral? One that all peoples of all civilizations throughout history have held to be true?

      June 16, 2011 at 2:19 pm |
    • ScottK

      @Doc – My last post was meant as a joke, but to answer your query, no, I cannot. And that is because I know enough about history to know that there has never been a consensus on morality, it has been as ever changing as the tides. There have been a few moral's that a majority of cultures have adopted such as those against murder, adultery and stealing, but certainly not a universal moral code passed down from man's supposed relationship with a creator.

      I believe that our moral codes have, much like ourselves and our cultures, evolved from social interaction among small groups of our ancient ancestors. If one group adopted a belief that accepted murder as commonplace, likely that group did not last long since survival would have relied upon group cooperation. Others may have prospered by intorducing rules and laws that made their community safer and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which moral codes may have helped do that.

      June 16, 2011 at 2:37 pm |
    • ScottK

      And one more point, our ancestors did not view adultery as a sin because of the s e x involved, it was really an offshoot of the law against stealing. A woman/wife was considered a man's property and her womb was considered the gateway to a man's legacy, as in where his heir would come from. Thus the real offense of adultery was the stealing of another man's possesions and possibly stealing his legacy by impregnating his heir maker.

      June 16, 2011 at 2:46 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @ScottK
      I am in full agreement with you.
      Took me a few minutes, but now I get the pun... and have lowered shields and powered down the anti-fundie phasers.

      June 16, 2011 at 2:59 pm |
    • PRISM 1234

      @ ScottK

      To my post you replied "You realize that you sound as fanatical and crazy as Muneef right?"

      And to your remark I reply:
      According to your views displayed in your other comments posted here and on other blogs, it is no wonder you say about me what you do .... My post is offencive to you because it cuts through all surface of pretence and goes to the root of the problem. But it is what's in your heart that's the problem, because you have silenced the voice of your own conscience , and have denied your own soul. That makes makes you as a dead man, while you're still alive.

      So, what is it to me to be insulted and called derogatory names by someone like you?? NOT A THING!

      June 16, 2011 at 8:55 pm |
    • PRISM 1234

      @Nonimus
      Friend, if you don't learn the difference between man's opinions and God's truth which He put in every human being to be able to recognize it... if you by your own will deny the voice of your conscience because of love of sin that's in your heart, then you will have to face it later...
      The things I spoke in my post are not my opinion! If I called it an opinion, I would be denying God, because the things I said in my post are according to His Word, and His Spirit bears witness to them.
      You can laugh, mock, and ridicule what I say, thinking that will minimize worth of what I wrote, but I promise you, you'll eat your words, and will at regret them bitterly when you stand in your nothingness before your Maker. So it is best not to boast yourself, and let Time tell all things, because IT will prove what is of man and what is of God!
      Good evening to you!

      June 16, 2011 at 9:16 pm |
  13. William Demuth

    Common People Mr Weiner hasn't done anything that ninety five percent of Roman Catholic priests don't do all day long.

    At least he does it with woman.

    I say we make him a cardinal if he converts.

    June 16, 2011 at 8:54 am |
    • Kronk

      We can only make him a cardinal if he's bi or lives in St.Louis.

      June 16, 2011 at 10:07 am |
    • Normon

      95% of people named William can't understand statistics. Only 90% get passed the 6th grade.

      June 16, 2011 at 11:40 am |
  14. CW

    @ Doc,

    Ahhhh.....seeing your wonderful God bashing comments......Hope you change....if not....you know the drill.

    June 16, 2011 at 8:50 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      I've no grudge against any gods, only the most narrow minded of their followers.

      June 16, 2011 at 8:54 am |
    • ScottK

      It's tough to bash that which does not exist.

      June 16, 2011 at 12:45 pm |
  15. Doc Vestibule

    Seeing my very own off-topic comment reposted by the moderators makes me feel and warm and squidgy inside.
    All I need now is for someone else to post under my name and I'll truly feel a part of the CNN Belief Blog Family.

    June 16, 2011 at 8:36 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      As you wish

      June 16, 2011 at 9:02 am |
    • Frogist

      LOL! Cnn made a shout out to Doc V! You should let them give you a show now. You and Anderson Cooper?

      June 16, 2011 at 10:04 am |
    • Kronk

      Doc is the man of the hour! Free beers for everybody and put it on CNN's tab!

      June 16, 2011 at 10:09 am |
    • Free

      Kronk
      Careful, go out for a few beers and add some lively discussion and you're liable to be labeled a 'radical' atheist. 🙂

      June 16, 2011 at 10:16 am |
    • Peace2All

      @Doc V.

      You da' man Doc !

      Peace...

      June 16, 2011 at 11:24 am |
    • Peace2All

      @Frogist

      Dear -CK... I'm getting that you've got the 'hots' for Andy. I'm very jealous, you know. 😦

      (*tears streaming down face now).

      Take care,

      -SM

      June 16, 2011 at 11:28 am |
    • ScottK

      Speaking of CNN's Silver Fox, did you know Anderson Coopers mother was Gloria Vanderbilt? Apparently it's all in the "jeans"...

      June 16, 2011 at 12:48 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @ScottK

      Oh, dude... that was so bad, I'm smilin' ! 😀

      Peace...

      June 16, 2011 at 12:53 pm |
    • Sayin Stuff

      "squidgy"? That is your soul calling out to be fed with spaghetti! Seek ye the One True Sauce!

      June 16, 2011 at 6:58 pm |
  16. Renee

    I say we just need to let the man do what he needs to do in order to try and fix the problem he has created. That means stop reporting about him, stop recommending religions to him, stop telling him what an awful person he is. He did something wrong, we get it, but it certainly isn't the worst thing a politician has done.

    June 16, 2011 at 8:14 am |
  17. Livelystone

    Obviously Mr. Wiener is guilty of lying and given enough time it would not be far fetched to assume that adultery would be added to his list of offenses. Both of these actions violate the Ten Commandments that are from God and are to be kept by all religions, and especially those descending from Abraham.

    Secular wise our country was far better off when the Ten Commandments were at least allowed influence over our lifestyles, government and courts. Now it can be said the presence of the Ten Commandments creates a hostile environment wherever they appear because the natural man (and woman) is at enmity with God..... the same as our government and courts are.

    Neither Judaism nor Islam have any hope to overcome sin and lust, however, the church that was given the keys to the kingdom of God and how to overcome sin has lost them, consequently the church cannot be of any assistance to Mr. Wiener anymore then the local mosque or synagogue can help him.

    There is a book due out on the shelves in just a few weeks where for the first time since the death of the last apostle the way to overcome sin is taught.

    If Mr Wiener were to pick up a copy of "Modern Day Prophet" he would be on the right track to overcoming his problems.

    June 16, 2011 at 8:13 am |
    • William Demuth

      I didn't realize texting was covered by the ten commandments. Which one is it, number 236 or number 843?

      Amazing that God forsaw a degenerate Jew, who is married to an anorexic Muslim, texting booty shots to an African American Christian college student.

      Its like the Trifecta!

      June 16, 2011 at 9:00 am |
    • Kronk

      You mean the Colorectal Trifecta.

      June 16, 2011 at 10:10 am |
  18. Anthony Weiner

    Boring. Let's get back to the Schwarzenegger story. How about the interview with the maid?

    June 16, 2011 at 8:01 am |
  19. Rozelle

    :Jon: I love this fascination with sin. If God created man in his own image then why didn't he create man with the ability to not sin? No, not only did he know that Man was going to sin he did nothing to stop it and punished Man anyway. Now THAT is a loving God!" Here's my reply: God didn't create slaves. God created people. "In his own image" means people have the capacity for great love – love of God and love for each other. But people, because God gave us free will (we're not clones or slaves), also have the capacity to do terrible things. Sin is not simply doing bad things. Sin is whatever separates us from God, from love. Do you want your children to be an exact replica of yourself? No. You create them and then you are excited to watch them grow and develop their own personalities. It's the same way with God.

    June 16, 2011 at 7:48 am |
    • Scarf

      God did not create squat. If "tweet-a-stiff" embraces Bible fiction, then he will be an delusional obnoxious perverted liar which is worse. How 'bout he just vanishes permanently after his wife cuts him loose? Better yet, eat a bullet.

      June 16, 2011 at 8:04 am |
    • William Demuth

      If Anthony was created in Gods image, than how can his pictures of his package be anything other than divine?

      We need one in every synagouge!

      June 16, 2011 at 9:03 am |
    • David Johnson

      @Rozelle

      You said: "God gave us free will (we're not clones or slaves)"

      Hmmm...

      Christians say, "Free will is given to man, by God". Each person can choose to accept god's love and spend eternity in Heaven or to reject god and spend eternity being tortured in Hell. How is that freedom of choice when it is the same thing as The Godfather, making you an offer you cannot refuse?

      The problem with free will is, that Christians have insisted on their god being Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnibenevolent.
      No god can be all three at the same time. The attributes contradict each other.

      If god knows what He will do in the future and because He is Omnipotent, does something else, then He is not omniscient.
      If god knows what He will do in the future and cannot do something else, then He is not omnipotent.
      See the problem?

      If God knows the future, if the future can be known, that means that the future is predictable and unchangeable. This, in turn, means that our actions are predetermined. If god is all knowing, free will is an illusion.
      This also binds god, in that He knows what he will do in the future, and He must do it.

      Let's look at Jesus and his predictions that Judas would betray him and Peter would deny him.
      Those were future events. Do you think Judas could have used his free will to opt out? Not, if Jesus/God was omniscient. Same goes for Peter.
      The actions of Peter and Judas were predetermined. They had no choice.

      When Moses was attempting to secure the release of the Jews, from Egypt, God repeatedly "hardens Pharaoh's heart". God did not allow Pharaoh to release the Jews, until He had delivered His 10 plagues upon the Egyptian people. Pharaoh didn't have free will.

      Biblical prophecy would not be possible, unless events and human actions were predetermined and there is no free will.
      The fulfillment of a prophecy cannot be left to random chance.

      What about the child who is murdered by a monster, or a people slaughtered by a stronger opponent (or a god)?
      Did they choose to be harmed? Where was their free will? These acts show that the strong or the people in power have greater free will than their victims. Hmmm... See how this fits in with the free will / god exists thingy?

      If god has a "plan for each of us", if there is an agenda, then that pretty much rules out free will.

      Jeremiah 29:11
      For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

      "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]

      You might argue, that while god has a plan for each of us, He doesn't force us to follow this plan. The problem with this argument, is that if a person does not follow god's plan, it may effect my ability to follow god's plan. A drunk driver may run me down. A robber may shoot me.

      Ephesians 1:11 "We have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will."

      "this man [Christ Jesus] delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God" (Acts 2:23a NASB).

      The 6 point Calvinists believe our fates are sealed, even before we are born. This would mean that god allows humans to be born, knowing they will someday burn forever. Seems wrong to me, even for a mysterious god.

      There is no evidence that a god gives or safeguards free will.

      Actually, there is no evidence that god exists anywhere, in any dimension, or universe. LOL

      Cheers!

      June 16, 2011 at 9:59 am |
    • Haime52

      @ David johnson – You confuse me a bit bro. Are you an atheist or a Calvinist? You also got part of the equation wrong, God is not omnibenevolent, He is omnipresent, all seeing, always present.
      It should be remembered that God is far more than humankind can quantify. Paul says that God is in all, through all, and made all.
      As for predestination, we are all predestined to be saved but it is still our choice to choose to accept or not accept that salvation. If you desire to do wickedly and is part of your character, what fun would a place without sin be for you? In His mercy, He will not punish sinners eternally, but sin cannot be allowed to continue, even in some "eternal hell". So He will destroy sin in the "second death". Death, as in gone, forever! But to be caught in the second death is by that person's choice, by rejecting God's gift of grace.
      As for the main subject of the blog, seeking any religion should come from the heart, not convenience. Telling anyone to "try Jesus", will only work, if you are willing to show the way, and be willing give you own life to do it.

      June 16, 2011 at 11:21 am |
    • Ishmael

      Telling anyone to "try Jesus" will never work, as there is no Jesus to try, no God, and no Heaven or Hell.
      Thinking it would make any difference if the "Jesus freak" were not a hypocrite and was willing to die for his suggestion, is rank foolishness.
      Just because someone is willing to die for a belief does not make it true. Suicide cults are not uniique to Christianity or any other false belief.

      June 16, 2011 at 5:53 pm |
  20. Justina

    Jason, let me put an end to your quest. You can live ignoring all religions, philosophies and ideologies as if they did not exist. Simply try to be good on your own; create your own life mottos and you still have the same chance with all religions. But this is except the Biblical Christianity. Christianity alone cannot be ignored; it alone demands your all-out acceptance because it is Truth. It alone teaches humanity's total depravity as it is and offers complete salvation by Jesus. So the world is about Jesus OR self, not various religions. Westerners are futile in trying to equate Christianity with other stuff. Christianity alone is outstanding and all-demanding.

    June 16, 2011 at 7:47 am |
    • William Demuth

      Strange. Your description seems to parralel that commonly used to define a cult.

      Your belief system is obsolete, yet you cling to bronze age lies because of a fear of death.

      Well I have good news. You will die, and you will NOT be coming back.

      June 16, 2011 at 9:10 am |
    • Jason

      Justina, the end to my "quest", was completed months ago when I accepted Islam. My thirst for knowledge on the other hand only grew, and continues to grow. Your post has no substance, and only serves to show your ignorance to other faiths. I feel sorry for you, and hope that God forgives you on the day of judgement.

      June 16, 2011 at 1:48 pm |
    • Justina

      @William, Christians don't fear death and we are used to death threats from thugs. You will come back for the Lake of Fire if you keep rejecting God. @Jason, you must forgive people whom you are holding grudges against, whoever they are. Blame yourself for your own sin. No Jesus, no forgiveness. God already did the atoning work for you and you knowingly rejected Him. You have no defense on the Judgment Day and your own filthy good cannot save you. Trust in the sinless Savior Jesus instead of yourself.

      June 16, 2011 at 8:19 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.