June 24th, 2011
02:36 PM ET
Untold stories of rape during the Holocaust
By Jessica Ravitz, CNN
(CNN) - The soldiers came for her at night. They took the girl to a barrack and forced her to watch a woman get raped.
The drunken men then set loose a dog to rip off the raped woman's breasts. Blood was everywhere. The woman passed out.
The young witness was next. Five soldiers held her down and took turns raping and sodomizing her. They spilled alcohol on her. They laughed. They said they'd kill her. She didn't yet have breasts for the dog to attack.Read more on the untold stories of the Holocaust
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.
144.000 WILL SURVIVE THE TRIBULATION
Nazis suceeded making the German youth killing machines by forced indoctrination. Today, kids in free countries like USA choose to learn worse cruelty and unspeakable perversions from movies and games approved by the democratic governments. Thus nightmares will continue for mankind, and rich nations as well as tyrants are fattening themselves for the Judgment Day. Down with secular countries' stupid freedom of expression.
As the number of survivors from the so called “great wars” dwindles, their sacrifices and experiences are rendered abstract to those who have seen war only through media representations.
In North America, it is our blessing and our curse.
We do not see the endless killing fields of nameless white crosses that teach humility.
We do not touch the human abattoirs that remind us of how easily the hearts of men are turned against their brothers.
We do not hear the echoes of the atom bomb that deafen hubris.
We can never wane in teaching our children that the relative peace in which we find ourselves was purchased with a heavy coin of countless lives.
What war buys us as a race is a simple lesson, often repeated and frequently forgotten:
Violence and aggression are a part of human nature and only through vigilance can they be kept from coming to the fore.
Violence begets violence and it takes only a single act to ignite the flames of hatred and start the killing all over again.
It is imperative that surviviors stories be told in all their gruesome details lest our children forget.
@Doc V-, yes, I read in a book that knowing and witnessing is participating in the same pain. As grown-ups, looking away or ignoring is the worst thing. People in different parts of the world are seamlessly suffering one after another, even the present moments. Americans must press forward for liberation of all.
Acts like these show firmly that there is no God. Only the benevolent and malevolent acts of man.
??? Deniers of God killed the Jews and believers. There is no human who is good on earth. Only redeemed ones in Jesus rescue people in ultimate sense.
Allied soldiers opened those camps because it was the humanitarian thing to do. Most were sickened by what they found, and many lost their faith forever. Why did your loving god stand by and watch while this atrocity unfolded ?
@Newsflash, you are incorrect. The two world wars took down humanisn in Europe, and Christianity flourished both in Europe and America after WW2. It's prosperity, pride and immorality that caused religious declining both in Europe and America since 80's. Blessings were wasted and turned into woes by willful sins in the West... again!!
@Newsflash, God did not simply watch. He suffered along with the victims. There are things in God's sphere and things in our sphere. When we witness atrocities, we must repent our own sins before God, trust Him, do anything to help the victims and do our best not to allow such things in our society. The reason Christians are fighting for the rights of the most neglected people all over the world and attempt to rescue the unborns. God will fulfill His justice and restoration in due time.
@Kebos- The actions of man does not wipe out God.
No need to wipe out what does not exist. The religious zombies need wiping out, though.
Germans suffered as well as their finest men were given over to demonic doctrines and totally wasted them away in the control of the evil, losing 7 million men. We surviving mankind from WW2 did not get the solemn lessons of life after 6 decades and live in the most stupid kind of indulgence as if prosperity will go on, on a dying planet with 2 billion suffering humans. Our land is blood-soaked. How could we not live for God and spend ourselves in rescuing others?
What everyone is really forgetting is that the scriptures say 'Fear the true God and keep all his comandments' if that scriptures was put into practice throughout the whole of the human history then the Holocoust and all the horrors around this earth seen in the past and are going to occur these horrors would never come up not even in ones imagination or nightmare dreams. Fear of the true God is not a foreboding fear but one of deep deep respect as to not hurt or upset Him that means to keep his commandment of Love thy neighbour as thy self, do not murder, do not covert ie to be jelouse, to know the love that God has for us as to send his son to die on our behalf and to set up a Kingdom in the Heavens that will so very soon as the signs point to it as is shown in the scriptures this Kingdom under the Kingship of Christ our Lord will act on behalf of all humanity righting the wrongs and bringing everlasting peace to the earth by eliminating the wicked influences that prevail due to the covert forces of Satan and his human counterpart and co conspirators the human governaments. Please all of you who have an ear and a heart read your Bibles see for yourselves the truth.
When the Fascists are at your door, arresting you for not being their flavor of righteous, you can just keep on wondering why : "scriptures was put into practice throughout the whole of the human history then the Holocoust and all the horrors around this earth seen in the past and are going to occur these horrors would never come up not even" and see how far that crap will keep you safe.
Humanity completely failed when we sought autonomy back in the Garden of Eden and when Israel refused the righteous rule by God. What we can do now: Admit we are sinners, accept Jesus Christ as the Savior and Lord, and start living a new life in God, spreading this vital Good News of Jesus and teaching and helping everyone.
World, don't forget North Korea. Things of Holocaust are being systematically conducted in North Korean prison camps, even in the entire nation. We looked away when the Jews were slaughtered, let's not look away from the plight of North Koreans now. CNN, you have means to bring those things under the daylight. Do it, please. Remembering the wrong past means not-repeating it.
Wow, I just looked it up, it's horrific, I didn't know that was happening.
The worst is yet to come. 2/3 of the Jews will not survive the Great Tribulation.
Keith, Jews will get saved at the Great Tribulation. It's mankind who will suffer the loss like that at the end. A planet with serious crimes and serious end awaiting. The Bible hides nothing. It's amazing how the Western hedonists are living right now.
Reading through these posts I saw one that asked to hear from Holocaust survivors. This may sound a little presumptious, but in a way we are all Holocaust survivors. It's one thing to accept that individual humans sometimes develop such grossly aberrant behavior they become rapists, serial killers, etc., but quite another to live with the knowledge that given the right set of rationalizations, monstrous brutality and human slaughter are possible on a very large scale.
When I imagine my beautiful, loving children or grandchildren as the victims of torture and terror, it hurts so much I can hardly breathe. But it is that pain that keeps me, and most people, determined to find a way to prevent another Holocaust and to stop the "crimes against humanity" that are occurring today. In this effort, I think the U.S. has perhaps a greater responsibility than other country, as it was a growing awareness of basic human rights, and the belief in the equal rights of all people to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" that gave birth to this country.
One of the issues impeding our contemporary struggles to eradticate these "crimes against humanity" is our inability to clearly define what we recognize as a legitimate religion, and legitimate religious practices. Specifically, I don't think it is necessary, or right, for us to recognize any practice as a legitimate "religion" if it violates basic human rights–after all, insuring basic human rights is at the heart of our most cherished ideals and legal principles.
We certainly wouldn't recognize a "religion" that practiced ritual human sacrifice as a legitimate religion, even though such "religions" once existed. So, why should we not judge contemporary "religions" by the same standards of basic human rights, and our own standards of morality? Does "religious tolerance" mean we have to tolerate behavior that violates the human rights, decency, and dignity that we cherish as fundamental to our American society simply because some people identify such behavior as a "religious" act? I don't think so.
Why is it that we can drop bombs to"protect America's interests" in oil or some other commercial venture, but we can't do anything to protect our moral and ethical interests, and prevent someone from having a hand chopped off, or a woman from being stoned to death? Or a 12-year-old boy from being tortured and murdered by religious thugs in Syria?
@Ideaminer: America has no morality or ethics to start with, without the Judeo-Christian values. Outside of Christianity, there is no concept of freedom or equality in the human world. America bombs villains so they will stop their atrocities and listen to her. Nations must listen to USA in order to obtain freedom and democracy. America has forgotten that nations need Christian education, not just secular democracy.
And in the year 2011 we still have this, and CNN ignored it:
"No Jews to be Allowed on Delta-Saudi Air Line Flights"
Throughout my studies of the different religious of the world, I’ve come to the following conclusion: A religion should be judged based on its doctrine and its founder, not by its followers. Do not blame religion; blame the person who uses it for their own purpose and gains. People will kill and die for whatever they believe in… whether it be for a god(s)/religion or for an ideology. It is MAN that has caused more wars and atrocities than anything else in history.
"Throughout my studies of the different religious of the world, I’ve come to the following conclusion:"
-- Did you come to your conclusion at the very beginning of your "studies" ? ("throughout" implies "all during").
-- Did you mean to say different RELIGIONS of the world ? Why would someone who actually IS a student of religion say something like that ?
"A religion should be judged based on its doctrine and its founder, not by its followers."
-- What if the followers radically change the religion of the founder ?
-- What if the founder never actually talked about "doctrine" ?
"Do not blame religion; blame the person who uses it for their own purpose and gains."
-- Didn't you just say not to blame the follower(s) ?
Another confused "student" of "world religion" (whatever that means).
Could you clarify your remarks? You contradict yourself in a big way.
Proper followers reveal what their religion is all about. Actually humans abuse everything including the names of religions and use it to meet one's own agenda. Most religions are okay as long as they talk about earthly conducts and if they don't go into theology. Everyone needs Biblical Christianity to get the Truth. True Christians changed the world for good permanently and super-naturally throughout the history. There is no one like true Christians among mankind.
@Bucky Ball, Individual Atheist, & Zelda
“Did you come to your conclusion at the very beginning of your "studies" ? ("throughout" implies "all during")”
- No! I came to this conclusion after what I have learned so far. Do we ever stop learning?
“Did you mean to say different RELIGIONS of the world ? Why would someone who actually IS a student of religion say something like that ?”
- Yes, I did mean to say “different RELIGIONS of the world.” I didn’t proof read the first draft for errors because I didn’t think I would have to do battle with a “Grammar Nazi” on a blog site.
- This fall, I’ll be entering my first year in college where I will be majoring in the studies of the different religions of the world (past and present). Even after I’ve completed my BA, MA, and then my PHD, I will still consider myself a student because I believe we never stop learning.
“What if the followers radically change the religion of the founder ?”
- Don’t judge a person by their religion and don’t judge the religion by its so called followers. People don’t always follow the doctrine of their religion or emulate its founder. I personal believe that a religion should be judged solely on its founder and the religion’s doctrine… not by its followers. Like you said, sometimes, followers [will] radically change the religion of the founder.
“What if the founder never actually talked about "doctrine" ?”
- Can you give me an example by what you mean by this?
“Didn't you just say not to blame the follower(s) ?”
- That’s not what I said. The main point I’m trying to make here is this: “Don’t judge a person by their religion and don’t judge the religion by its so called followers.” Religion (like ethics, morals, rules and law) has always been with us. Throughout history, it has expressed the deepest questions human beings can ask, and it has taken a central place in the lives of virtually all civilizations and cultures. As we think all the way back to the dawn of human consciousness, we find religion everywhere we turn. And yes, at times, we discover religion at the center of global issues and cultural conflict. The main question I always ask is this: “Is the person truly following the teachings of their religion or are they just using it for their own personal agenda?” Overall, religion is powerful and persistent, and it shows no signs of disappearing. It provokes heartfelt commitment, eloquent expression, forthright action, and intense debate. For both practi-tioners and observers – for everyone who wants to be informed about the world around them – religion is an intensely curious phenomenon that calls out for better understanding. This is why I’m studying religion… to understand it, not to judge it or to play the blasphemy game.
-Student of World Religion-
Then I hope you also study psychology.
Religion is irrational and schizophrenic. The psychology of irrational decision-making and the schizophrenic mind-sets that give rise to religion should be considered a key resource to understanding all religions in a rational way.
But here I am increasing your field of study!
Well, if you want a well-rounded understanding of all the religions that have ever existed, I think the objective psychological view is best. Good luck.
"Religion is irrational and schizophrenic."
Umm, no. Ppl can be irrational. Ppl can be schizophrenic. But religion can't be. That's like calling your car irrational or your house schizophrenic.
As for the ppl, I doubt you have enough knowledge to make an accurate medical opinion on anyone's mental health. Probably not even your own.
Funny, I could have sworn a few weeks ago you said you were a Masters level student. Hmmm. ???
Religion is made-up by irrational schizophrenic people and fraudsters. Nobody else makes a religion a religion.
Even a child can see through the lies of religion. Most of the early years of indoctrination are used to force the child to ignore the lies in favor of the contradictory and insane religion in order to "fit in".
"I didn’t proof read the first draft for errors because I didn’t think I would have to do battle with a “Grammar Nazi” on a blog site."
-- I don't apologize for expecting careful, reasoned posts.
“What if the followers radically change the religion of the founder ?”
"Don’t judge a person by their religion and don’t judge the religion by its so called followers."
-- That in itself is a judgmental act. How do YOU make a distinction, (judgement) among it's followers, it's "so called" followers, and the founder.
"People don’t always follow the doctrine of their religion or emulate its founder. I personal believe that a religion should be judged solely on its founder and the religion’s doctrine… not by its followers.
-- Ok. What makes your judgement of the founder's "doctrine" any different, any better, or more valid than any of the followers ? All the followers think they are following correctly.
Like you said, sometimes, followers [will] radically change the religion of the founder."
-- As Ted was pointing out, religion does not exist in some ideal, "out there" state, but ONLY in the minds of the followers, (except in the case where the founder happens to be still alive). By using YOUR brain to interpret the intentions and "doctrine" of the founder, leaves open the possibility, (probability), that YOU will misinterpret the founder. There is NO case where another human does any judging without the agency of it's brain cells, thus a knowledge of science, linguistics and logic is as essential to the discussion as is the study of religion.
“What if the founder never actually talked about "doctrine" ?”
Can you give me an example by what you mean by this?
-- Sure can. Christianity. Yeshua was never reported to have used that term. The convoluted doctrinal system of "salvation" etc., etc., was developed and changed many many times by the followers, (as well as the self interpretation of the events surrounding his own life by it's founder).
“Don’t judge a person by their religion”
-- So I shouldn't make a distinction between a follower of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, (a person), and a rational (appearing) person ?
"and don’t judge the religion by its so called followers”
-- That may have some validity, and I agree most followers have changed their original religions, indeed quite a lot, and that change is why I find the subject fascinating. But there is a moral difference between religions where they rip out the hearts of children and sacrifice them to the sun god, and ones where they mainly take care of the sick, or simply sit quietly (and sometimes chant), so that their beta-endorphins will increase, (meditation).
"Religion (like ethics, morals, rules and law) has always been with us. Throughout history, it has expressed the deepest questions human beings can ask, and it has taken a central place in the lives of virtually all civilizations and cultures" etc., etc.
-- Agree. I applaud your inquisitive adventure. Trying to understand the cultural and historical context of the thousands of human religions is an interesting enterprise. Good luck !
"Ppl can be irrational. Ppl can be schizophrenic. But religion can't be. That's like calling your car irrational or your house schizophrenic"
-- I find the analogy faulty. Religion is a belief (mental/neuro-linguistic) system, (one which necessarily involves mental processes); a car is an inanimate object. To expect logical consistency from the system is not asking too much,(?), and indeed there have been countless attempts at trying to establish that consistency. Or maybe it is asking too much ?
The Neopagans were responsible for the Holocaust. It is an old tradition of the pagans to hate the Jews. Hatred against Jews is part of pagan "belief". Actually Germany was or is a Christian country. Regretably pagan forces time after time manage to take of rule in Germany. The high priest of paganism during the Third Reich was Alfred Rosenberg (he wrote the book "Mythos des 20. Jahrhunderts" which is a downright satanic scripture). Together with Rosenberg Hitler admired Richard Wagner, who was an arch-pagan. There is a town in Germany, called Bayreuth, and there you can still watch and listen the satanic operas of Wagner. The German elite (even Frau Angela Merkel) still admires Richard Wagner and his operas that means they admire an "incarnated devil". It is only a matter of time that Germany will get up to any nonsense again.
There are two big Churches in Germany: The EKD (former DEK) and the RCC (Roman Catholic Church). Actually it would have been their task to resist the Neopagans, but they were so weak in themselves that they did nearly nothing against the Nazis. Only a small part of the DEK left the DEK and joint the Confessing Church (DEK congregations shifted from DEK direction to the direction of the Confessing Church, called VL or VKL). The Confessing Church rejected Nazi state and Nazi church. However the whole Germany had become a satanic body under Hitlers rule and it was a tough act to follow for her.
As usual, Herr Braendlein, you reduce a complex historical picture to your simplistic religiosity. The discussion of the controversy about Ricard Wagner is hardly so one-sided.
Actually there were many minorities targeted by the Nazis, and each group has the right to remind the world of their plight, (women in all groups), Jewish people, Black Germans, ho'mos'exuals, the Roma, Jehovah's Witnesses, the mentally and physically disabled, and mixed race Germans, (including the mixed race children of German soldiers and North African women).
As this is the Belief Blog, I would be interested in hearing from Holocaust survivors, and their families, both believers and non-believers, about how those horrific events affected their views on faith. Were they changed, or reinforced ?
Dear Bucky Ball,
nice to meet you again.
The German reformer Dietrich Bonhoeffer has condemned Wagner's music as arch-pagan (see Eberhard Bethge's biography about Bonhoeffer). Both Hitler and Rosenberg were possessed by Wagner's music.
Bonhoeffer has got a memorial at Westminster Abbey, where the Royal Wedding took place.
For argument's sake only, (as you have not demonstrated that Germany "was a Christian nation", or what that means),
if Germany was a Christian nation, and if they voted, (or allowed by apathy by non-voting), for National Socialism, then wouldn't Christians be responsible, at least in part, for the Holocaust ?
The EKD and the RCC preach the "cheap grace". Thus almost all (western) Germans don't follow Jesus, although they are baptized. We live almost like pagans. Baptism doesn't become effective in Germany, because it is not received by faith.
The Eastern Germans cannot follow Jesus, even if the would like to do it, because most of them are not baptized.
I am now very confused.
Didn't you tell us : "Actually Germany was or IS a Christian country" ?
Now you are saying : "Thus almost all (western) Germans DON'T follow Jesus, although they ARE baptized."
"The Eastern Germans cannot follow Jesus, even if the would like to do it, because most of them are NOT baptized."
So which is it ?
Hi Bucky Ball,
according to the ancient Christian doctrine, one becomes a Christian by faith and (!) baptism. In the Early Church the Spirit was present, caused the faith and people got baptized (even infants). Thus, former, to be baptized, meant to be a Christian.
Regarding the baptism, the Western Germans are Christians, but regretably they do not follow Jesus (after baptism faith means discipleship), because both the EKD and the RCC don't teach that after baptism one has to follow Jesus. Furthermore the Holy Ghost, who could cause the faith, has left EKD and RCC, because they tolerate a lot of heresies.
This is was Bonhoeffer has figured out again: By baptism God calls us to be disciples of Jesus Christ. Faith means discipleship and discipleship means faith.
The (Western) Germans are under God's sacramental call, but don't really follow. That is a nightmare.
During the Third Reich most of the Eastern Germans were still baptized, but under DDR rule Eastern Germany become atheistic.
Ok. Well I must be very dense because I still don't understand how "Western Germans are Christians, but regretably they do not follow Jesus". Isn't a Christian someone who does follow Jesus ? I also don't see how the Lord of the Universe cares which side of the Brandenberg Gate I might live on ? I guess I am very stupid.
By baptism God gives people the power to follow Jesus. The power of the death and resurrection of Jesus is dedicated to the person to be baptized. Of course the baptism must be received by faith, otherwise it doesn't become effective.
It is like that: Once, Jesus called St. Peter: "Follow me!" Peter simply was obedient to Christ's powerful call and followed in the power of the call.
All baptized Germans are called, like St. Peter, but do not follow. They do not know that baptism is God's call and the Holy Spirit is not there, who could cause repentance, faith and realization of salvation.
We need a council of the Christian Churches (like Nicaea), where all current heresies should be rejected. After that the Holy Spirit would return to his Church.
Was thinking about your posts and I DO have to grant you that at least you DO recognize the radical nature of Christianity, (you were talking about "cheap grace"/Bonhoeffer). If those who say they are Christians really did embrace it as the radical movement it's (supposed) founder preached, it would look a lot different.
Muhammad sees Jews and Christians as Moslems, having turned apostate. For Muhammad Jews and Christians are garbage, which should be disposed of. However Muhammad made a mistake. Of course J and C are not perfect, but God is their judge and not any backward Arab. Muhammad should have become a Christian and try to practise his faith.
Even you, Bucky Ball, don't judge us, but become a Christian yourself and become a good example for us. It is a tough act to follow for Christians in a secular world.
I'm a woman, but I don't think there is really that much difference between man and woman in enduring torture. Anyway, any new Holocaust details must be broadcasted to the whole world again and again, forever. Truth must be known to our evil mankind until the end.
The Shoah, which occurred in World War II should not be immobilized, it should remain as a testimony of the horror that happened to Jewish people ..... in Amsterdam is the famous home of Anne Frank and the large Jewish Museum, which clearly referring to the Shoah, when you enter, you experience the suffering they inflicted
A M E N !
This is the first thing you have ever said with which I wholreheartedly agree.
@Doc V-, I feel so honored. I love Canadians.
Wartime atrocities or atrocities under tyrants are all too similar. Man must not be given any absolute power over another. There are many ways for humans to suffer or to die. The Holocaust stories must be told again and again until the end of the world, until all humanity admit its own evil. There is not much difference between a Nazi soldier and a child who bullies his defenseless classmate.
@Manifold, Israel annihilated only those child-sacrificing vicious perverts who deserved death, in order to protect future generations and surrounding tribes. Read Genesis 15:16 It was ripe time for execution of villains. If you are evil, the land vomits you out. She killed no other. Israel offered terms with Palestinians but greedy people turned it down every time. The land belongs to Jews just like any migrants occupy the land. Nations are bunch of pigs to ignore God's ownership of the planet and to devour Israel but everyone will be punished by God thoroughly before anyone can hurt Israel.
A M E N !
So many untold stories of rap-e!
Like when the Jews massacred and enslaved whole peoples, committing genocide themselves according to the Bible!
Where are their stories? There are none left alive to tell them now. Not when there were no survivors of the "holocaust" perpetrated by those Jews in the old days!
Maybe the Jews didn't have dogs to tear off the breasts of those they massacred, ra-ped and enslaved back then, or maybe they did. The Bible doesn't say anything about details like that.
So now we should be forgetting that the Jews did things like that and even worse just because it happened to them? NO!
Just like the Nazis, the Jews committed genocide according to what their leaders told them. They listened to their priests and then went out and murdered and ra-ped in the name of their god.
Just like the Jews, the Nazis listened to their priests and leaders who had an obvious agenda, yet did not question what they thought their god wanted for their country, for their people.
The recent "holocaust" was fomented by the Vatican. Hitler was born Catholic and died Catholic. His mind was shaped by the Catholic Church.
And the Catholic Church probably wanted another pogrom against the Jews. This one for "keeps". They did similar things against Jews throughout history. They murdered Jews for being Jews, killed them for not being Catholics, made thousands of them convert at the point of the sword. Catholics are no better than Muslims in this regard.
There is a well-docu-mented history of anti-Jew sentiment in the "Old World" that finds a more efficient murderousness in the "Holocaust". How easy it must have been to stir up anti-Jew sentiment where it had always been strong.
But then again, if the Jews had been such wonderful and nice people, who would have had anything bad to say about them? They are not totally innocent. But genocide is a typical religious response.
It's in the Torah, the OT. It has been done before. Ra-pe is horrible and so is all that violent jazz. But it is all too human when religion is running the show. Racism is also typical of human response patterns.
And what is more racist than saying "We are God's Chosen People and everyone else is shlt"?
So when the Nazi's took that sort of slogan and said "We are the Supreme Aryan Race and everyone else is shlt", the irony is astoundingly ironic. Racists killing racists using their own supremacist ideology mixed with nationalism and religion.
How ironic can you get?
And now Israel is treating Palestinians just like Nazis treated them in Germany. How long before they use ovens? Who knows? They are doing the same Nazi crap. How's that nationalism thing going for you guys in Israel? Mixed it up with your religion, didn't you? And your blatant racism as well, eh?
Have any new designs? That Star of David is looking like a swastika if you squint your eyes a bit these days.
Those rapists are dead now. Let's go after the rapists who are still alive.
Jews aren't any different than anyone else.
We are all people. We are all human.
Manifold. What rock did you slither from? You try to hide your hate but your ignorance is obvious. You clearly are living off sound bites. Congratulations, you found an ever present excuse to hate Jews- the “we hate Jews because they think they are Chosen”. You do not even truly understand what that means. You are a hater and an idiot. Also you do not understand (and do not wish to –it seems) the difference between Israelis and Palestinians. The Israelis want to preserve life – everyone’s lives. Palestinians would trade a life just to continue to pretend to be Israel’s victims and continue to use the media for their purpose. They are victims- of their own lack of responsibility for their self-created situation. They have been given chance after chance to help themselves, but took the easier way-to blame Israel.
Manifold, I hope you get some accurate information really soon. You are a pathetic troll and deserve whatever comes your way.
I wonder how long until some pro-Nazi morons jump in and says the Holocaust either did not happen or was extremely exaggerated. You know a few will.
I hope women will come out about their stories, shanda or no. If one story can help another person mend their lives, it should be told. Certainly you can't force women to speak about these things. But I'm shocked that the scholars of the Holocaust are so resistant. I don't see how it tarnishes the image of the Holocaust (as if that was even possible) to recognise the significant differences of experience that men and women had.
I have to say I found Langer's arrogance a little too much to bear. He completely dismisses that women may not want to talk to him because he is a man. And then judges in his mind that women would have told him because they talked about killing their babies. A male who has never experienced it and has not studied the psychology of r-ape should not be making that judgement call in order to dismiss questions he neglected to ask. Could he really know that for every woman? I understand he has doubts based on his not insignificant experience. But until the question is asked, until the subject is broached, how will anyone ever know the truth?
Very well said there, Frogist. That is a more thera-peutic view than mine. But I am from Mars or something anyway.. 😛
A story like this shouldn't be all that surprising to the modern reader. You would be horribly ignorant if it never came across your mind that female inmates at the camps could and were ra*ped. But like many issues and historical spot in our history, I think we put on gender-based goggles to look through. Horrors that were unique to women never seemed to get the attention that other crimes seem to have gotten.
Very well said.
"..could and were ra*ped."
So you are not checking your post before you hit the button. Get on the train!
Get on the train!
Horrors that are unique to religion never seem to get much press either.
@Individual Atheist- Sometimes, though religion is sometimes a vic*tum of the circ*umstances of the times as well. It seems that many wars (very secular based wars) are put under a cloak of supposed religion to get ppl to go along with it.
Religion(God, Jesus) is the last and only hope and comfort in the worst despair possible in the universe. American atheists willing trade beauty and meaning with the immoral, abysmal despair when no one ask them to do so.
Religion is full of made-up despair, guilt, psychosis, schizophrenia, death, hate, crazyness of all sorts, but it's a great way to meet simple-minded people who hate themselves, feel guilty over being born, are terrorized to worship a god that hates them and has given them a crazy set of crazy rules that make no sense and will drive them all insane but that god will give them the privilege of being slaves after all the suffering he has given them.
They think they will be required to say the same words over and over forever and bow constantly in his direction. That's their reward and they will kill to get a chance at it even though it does not exist.
Damned before they are born, Christians will continue to be damned and suffer everything until they die a horrible death, hating their made-up guilt so they can console themselves with a made-up guilt-remover so they can maybe be forgiven for something they didn't do after they are dead no matter how much they knew or understood of what made no sense in the first place.
Anyone want a cookie? There's more...
Religion gives you despair you never would have had if it weren't for all that stuff you didn't do and didn't cause.
Religion makes you guilty for things other people supposedly did but really didn't do anyway that angered a god that doesn't exist because he didn't give them what they didn't have and then punished them for what they didn't do because they had no idea how to follow his directions because he didn't give them that ability, yet they "stole" this ability from the most powerful, all-seeing, etc. god that created everything, including their lack of ability to understand and know things, because he is somehow "perfect" in making stupid people who are too dumb to notice how nothing makes sense if you talk fast enough in a church and they will even give their money for this fake guilt-trip with the added fake guilt-removal scheme.
This fake guilt-removal scheme is about another bunch of people who might not have existed who caused nothing to be magically wiped away, not even the baseless guilt until one has made a choice after being terrorized and manipulated into making this "choice" of their own "free-will" while they hang over a made-up giant pit of fire. They were put there by their god who loves them and hates them, who killed his son he did not begat so the fake guilt could be removed by him even though he put it there in the first place without reason and without existing.
Of course religion is the most wonderful thing in your life. I am sure you love your fake-guilt more than your real guilt, and thus you cling to it all the harder rather than look at what you are actually doing in real life.
Face real life. It's not that bad. It's worse. Everyone is surrounded by crazy people with fake guilt complexes that keep them from becoming sane. When religion is gone then it will be that much better. Quite a lot better, actually.
I could go on, but it's time for physics right now. Bye.
"It seems that many wars (very secular based wars) are put under a cloak of supposed religion to get ppl to go along with it."
When everyone is going along with it because of religion – it becomes a religion-based war and not a secular-based one.
The religion is the motive that prosecutes the war.
Even if a secular king tells a priest to rile everyone up with religion, it is a religious war because that's how it is made to happen. It doesn't matter what the leaders personally think, religion is the weapon, the tool, and the basis for the war being fought at all by the religious people who are in the armed forces being used to prosecute the war.
Religious people don't mind killing for "God".
That's free murder, ra-pe, and pillage for anyone who is serving their country. Major bonus!
It's not a cloak, it's the action of the war itself – and it's based on religion more often than not.
War without clear direction is insane beyond the usual sort of war.
Religion is not a clear direction. If it was, we'd all be following it.