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Atheists challenge ‘Heaven’ on New York City street sign
July 6th, 2011
04:47 PM ET

Atheists challenge ‘Heaven’ on New York City street sign

By Samantha Stamler, CNN

New York (CNN) - A new street sign that reads “Seven in Heaven Way,” and that was recently unveiled in Brooklyn, New York, to commemorate seven local firefighters who lost their lives in the September 11, 2001 attacks has drawn the ire of some atheists, who say they’re prepared to go to court to have the sign taken down.

New York City Atheists, a group that opposes the public use of religious references, is challenging the new sign, which was erected in Brooklyn’s Red Hook neighborhood.

“We’re supposed to be a secular nation - there really should not be any religious symbolism or signage in public places,” said Kenneth Bronstein, President of New York City Atheists. “We feel that any and all people who died in 9-11 should be remembered and honored. That’s not the problem.”

Bronstein calls the sign a violation of the separation of church and state, arguing that the word “heaven” is a clear reference to Christianity.

Bronstein has contacted the city with his complaint and has proposed an alternative street name: “We Remember the 7-911.”

Groups dedicated to honoring 9/11 victims did not immediately reply to requests for comment on Bronstein’s campaign.

But some New Yorkers told CNN New York affiliate WPIX that they disagree with the New York City Atheists.

"That's nonsense,” said Anbriena Insausti, who lives in Manhattan. “The families should honor their loved ones anyway they want."

Bronstein says the group is prepared to sue the city over the sign and what it says are other unconstitutional government endorsements of religion.

“This is not a matter of faltering patriotism or public ignorance, but rather an effort to promote secularism,” he said. “We want [the sign] to be neutral. Anyone can believe whatever they want to believe.”

“We’ll die for the right to believe,” he continued. “Just don’t shove it down our throat.”

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Atheism • New York

soundoff (3,096 Responses)
  1. MrBill

    Sure, now they'll want to rename Corpus Christi (the body of Christ).

    July 7, 2011 at 2:39 pm |
    • elaine

      You could rename Houston, San Antonio and Corpus Christi as Northern Mexico.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:41 pm |
    • Kyle

      This street has two names. What will 911emergency respond to?

      July 7, 2011 at 2:49 pm |
  2. Vish

    While we're at it, why don't we change the name of San Francisco, San Dimas, Santa Ana, Santa Carla, Santa Barbara...heck, even Los Angeles and San Diego?

    After all, we don't want to promote religions by naming our cities after saints and angels either.

    July 7, 2011 at 2:39 pm |
    • Dan

      Your tax dollars are also going to prop up faith based initiatives for churches who can then legally discriminate against gay people in hiring. All while receiving federal tax dollars.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:44 pm |
    • Vish

      What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?

      July 7, 2011 at 2:51 pm |
    • Dan

      I was responding to another blogger and my reply ended up here.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:54 pm |
    • Artist

      Dan

      I was responding to another blogger and my reply ended up here.

      --------
      Hmmm god is mysterious....perhaps you were directed to this particular point in the blog?

      July 7, 2011 at 2:55 pm |
    • Artist

      Folks lets raise our hands and pray for brother Dan. I truly believe god is trying to tell him something. God we ask that you move his posts where you want them in this blog. CAN I HAVE AN AMEN!!!!!! While we are at it, we are passing around donation bowls. Here I am taking out $100 from my OWN pocket...I want everyone in this room to match it. BLESS DAN IN JESUS NAME

      July 7, 2011 at 2:57 pm |
    • Dan

      @Artist Now that is the real Christian spirit. If you can't explain it today, attribute it to God. And don't pass up an opportunity to raise a little cash for the East wing of every church in the nation. After all, if we build a basketball court, gym and pool, we can get those youngsters to come often and contribute to the West wing which will be built next year. I realize people are starving down the street, but the church needs everything new.

      July 7, 2011 at 3:05 pm |
    • Artist

      Dan

      @Artist Now that is the real Christian spirit. If you can't explain it today, attribute it to God. And don't pass up an opportunity to raise a little cash for the East wing of every church in the nation. After all, if we build a basketball court, gym and pool, we can get those youngsters to come often and contribute to the West wing which will be built next year. I realize people are starving down the street, but the church needs everything new.
      ------
      Amen, my Mega Church can't look like some ghetto strip mall church. Where are my prayer warriors....with money! The lord is calling you to step forward and help. the Holy Ghost is making my heart heavy...we need to raise $1 Million for God this month...come on folks....God is talking to you through me. Just like when he talked to the authors of this precious bible, he is talking to me now and telling you to give me money. Do you not love baby Jesus? Well the ones that aren't giving are making Baby Jesus cry.

      July 7, 2011 at 3:20 pm |
  3. janetlaw

    Dear Atheists,
    Please use your energy on real problems, like suing state governments who award vouchers for private religious schools with MY tax dollars – this is the real violation of the separation between church and state.

    July 7, 2011 at 2:38 pm |
    • Ryan in Michigan

      janetlaw – Exactly. While your'e at it, keep your Atheist religion out of my state, too! No more tax dollars for schools that teach only Evolution. After all, why should children be taught that only Atheist views are correct? You just prefer to corrupt them from a young age, obviously.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:43 pm |
    • Cindy

      Yeah! Science has no place in this country. The supernatural and the metaphysical is all we need.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:46 pm |
    • Artist

      First you sound pretty stupid saying Atheist Religion. Secondly, what do schools have to do with religion? What does evolution have to do with religion? Spiritual matters are not the schools place. Spiritual matters are up to individuals and their churches. I think you are a bit confused?????

      July 7, 2011 at 2:47 pm |
    • Ryan in Michigan

      @Cindy – Whose to say your science is correct and not others? Why should your views be given preference?

      @Artist – First off, you sound pretty stupid trying to deny the fact that Atheism is a religion. A religion is a set of beliefs or routines followed by an individual or a group of individuals. Therefore, you believe what you believe, in essence that there is no God or gods, and that is your religion. It could be broken down much farther in comparisons with other religions, if needed.

      July 7, 2011 at 3:37 pm |
    • Ryan in Michigan

      To add to that, why should religious people pay tax dollars to have children of religious families taught cirriculum that violates their beliefs? It's like asking the Democrats to vote for legislation that supports big oil, tax breaks for the rich (or anybody, for that matter), and military spending.

      July 7, 2011 at 3:52 pm |
  4. mike

    I am a Christain I have not got any problem with the sign they(atheists) should not either. One thing I know for certain is if they did not call up on the name of Jesus to forgive them of their sins then all their good works were in vain. You must belive in the name of Jesus and ask him to come in to your life before you enter into the gates of heaven. I don't think that my Jesus would have any problem with the sign he knows all of us including the Atheists that one day might be given the chance to call on the one name that can save them from hell and they will call!

    July 7, 2011 at 2:37 pm |
    • Mr Phil

      You really didn't get the point of the article did you?

      July 7, 2011 at 2:40 pm |
    • Evan

      Blah, blah, blah.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:47 pm |
  5. Anthony

    So I guess they also would like all other religious names removed from street signs too. Here are some street names from Downtown alone. I'm sure they will want to dispute ALL of these if they are opposed to anything remotely resembling religion on a street sign.

    Barclay Street was named after a Christian pastor.

    Drumgoole Square is named after a priest.

    North Moore Street was named after the sixth rector of Trinity Church

    Of course there is Rector Street which is where the first Rectors of Trinity Church lived

    Reade Street is named after a warden of Trinity Church

    Trinity Place needs no explanation to it's religious reference

    Vestry Street was named for the vestry of Trinity Church

    July 7, 2011 at 2:37 pm |
    • Budda belly

      Actually it's not North Moore, it's Nathanial Moore St.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:38 pm |
    • meemee

      All that proves is that religious figures have been controlling society in an intended secular nation for too long a time. On the other hand, no one cares what personal convictions might be of a person who does some public good and so becomes memorialized. The entire issue is if a prayer should be a street sign, or an attempt to witness a faith be endorsed by government participation? The U.S. was intended to NOt be a support to any particular sect or religion while allowing people to believe and practice as they choose.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:42 pm |
    • YukonPCH

      in all liklelyhood, yes

      July 7, 2011 at 2:42 pm |
    • Anthony

      I think we are thinking of different streets.

      North Moore Street
      This Tribeca cross street was named for Bishop Benjamin Moore, who served as the sixth rector of Trinity Church (from 1806 to 1816) and as president of King's College, which later became Columbia. The "North" was added later to eliminate confusion with the Financial District street of the same name

      July 7, 2011 at 2:43 pm |
    • sporkov

      meemee,

      You wrote 'in an intended secular nation'. The way you are using secular is intellectually dishonest. If you read the first part of the 1st Amendment it states, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". No where in this most important of Amendments is there any prohibition on religious displays by the government; it only prevents the government from creating or naming a formal national religion. There is no prohibition of permitting, funding or even displaying religious items, ideas or anything else religious. It is quite straight forward.

      July 7, 2011 at 7:02 pm |
  6. OhioDad

    Actually this country was founded not as a "secular" nation as Mr. Bronstein states but, as "One Nation Under God". Maybe if this country would start following that again it wouldn't have people like Mr. Bronstein wanting to waste taxpayers money on a lawsuit to remove a street sign. This country has many other issues that need to be addressed...let's start concentrating on the more important issues.

    July 7, 2011 at 2:37 pm |
    • Mr Phil

      "One Nation Under God" was added in 1955. The First Amendment, The Treaty of Tripoli, and Thomas Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists all spell out the Founding Fathers desire for this country to remain secular.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:43 pm |
    • Berdule

      Please check your facts before posting:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/27/opinion/one-nation-under-god.html

      July 7, 2011 at 2:43 pm |
    • BP

      You do realize that 'under god' was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954 and had nothing to do with the founding of this country, or even many of the founding fathers intent when establishing this country. 'In God We Trust', btw, wasn't adopted by as the official motto of this country until 1956, though it appeared on coins beginning in the 1860s (long after the founding fathers).

      July 7, 2011 at 2:45 pm |
    • meemee

      Wrong, it absolutely was intended to be governed by a system that did not endorse any religion. Read, "Founding Faith," to learn the colonial and early American history that supports that position. The quote you borrowed here, "One Nation Under God" is taken from a line added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1951 at the height of McCarthyist, anti-communist paranoia when the always present, heavy handed Christian element thought that every American had to be forced to confess belief in God, as if a commie spy would have any problem lying about it. Idiots....

      July 7, 2011 at 2:47 pm |
    • Sarah

      After reading your posting, I think the other issues that we should focus on is EDUCATION.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:57 pm |
  7. Debbie

    I thought Atheists didnt believe in God and religion. If so, then why do they care since God and Heaven dont exist to them anyway? In their tiny minds, it is not real so they should not care that people who do believe want the sign left there. Some people cant deal with others opinions that arent like theirs. I am a Christian but if someone else is not or doesnt believe in God, I'm not going to throw a fit and such.

    July 7, 2011 at 2:36 pm |
    • YukonPCH

      Debbie, So your all for a city street named "god doesn't exist way"

      July 7, 2011 at 2:41 pm |
    • meemee

      Atheists, and other philosophers, people who are passively unbelievers are forced to live in a world where religion affects their reality. One cannot escape the conditions that religions create for everyone. It is annoying to have religious views showed at you at every turn, day in and day out. When atheists grow loud, publish a book that effectively criticizes religion, particularly Christianity in this country, you all start complaining about being persecuted for your beliefs. You ought to know what it is like to be socially outcast because you are surrounding by drooling religious robots, 24/7. And yeah, how would you like to see an equal amount of streets, etc., named for atheists, or atheist ideas? How about "Jesus Never Existed Avenue?"

      July 7, 2011 at 2:53 pm |
    • Ryan in Michigan

      @Yukon – Well, we have to put up with signs like that all over buses in San Francisco and Chicago, and likely New York soon if not already, so why not? You have freedom of speech, go ahead and use it. Just don't block others from using theirs.

      July 7, 2011 at 3:05 pm |
  8. Daniel

    Sorry, Atheist Fundamentalist Dudes, but the concept of "heaven" is not owned by the Christians. Versions of it appear in many traditions, such as Hinduism, popular Buddhism, Jainism, Islam, traditional Chinese beliefs, etc. It can be metaphorical or literal, one heaven or many, blah blah blah. So Militant Atheist Dudes, stop trying to prove that you can be as humorlessly rigid and dogmatic as your fundamentalist Christian counterparts. You've succeeded.

    July 7, 2011 at 2:36 pm |
    • chuck

      It is no secret that Christians have had their noses in every tent – including stopping the natural progression of lives of gay people in their tracks by consistently voting for anti-gay candidates. Hooray for the atheists for standing up to this overpowering majority who see no relevance in anyone's life but their own.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:40 pm |
    • meemee

      You may cancel your leading language right now. You are responding to one poster, not every atheist in the world. Second, show me one historical instance of atheists going to war for atheism. There are ZERO cases. Wherein, we have nearly two-thousand years of Christian civil war, Christian civil war in Europe, The Crusades, featuring the bloodiest of slaughtering aside from Genghis Khan, violent torture and murdering of accused "heretics," military world conquest in the name of Jesus, and interdenominational violence that continues to this day. As a philosophical atheist, I say to you, "Go to hell." (ha,........)

      July 7, 2011 at 2:59 pm |
  9. LordofBobz

    Well that is disappointing.
    I fully agree with separation of church and state. I fully agree that it needs to be completely removed.
    But come on. One street sign is not that bad. Sure it doesn't have to bring in Heaven. Renaming the street is a dumb idea anyway to remember them. But saying, Don't shove it down our throat?
    Going to court?
    Come on it makes all of us atheists look bad.

    July 7, 2011 at 2:36 pm |
    • Anthony

      Separation of church and state doesn't mean you can't mention church in any state run organization. It just means the church can't run the state. Remember that the government the founders of our nation came from was led by a person who was also the head of the church as well as the head of state. That is all they were trying to protect. I'm sure they had no intention of a generation so wicked that they would try to remove all reference of religion from our sight. Every single one of our laws is based on one of the 10 commandments, which is why they hang on the wall in the supreme court. You cannot remove religion from this country regardless of how you believe.

      Isn't there something else atheists don't believe in that you can focus on? Couldn't you focus on all of the references to greek mythology as well and get that removed? That is in reference to Gods and faith too, so doesn't it fall in your crosshairs somewhere, or is "atheist" just another word for "anti-christian"?

      July 7, 2011 at 2:41 pm |
    • BP

      Anthony, what law makes adultery illegal? Howabout honoring your parents? Keeping holy the sabbath? (besides blue laws perhaps, which could be prime example of one religion using government to enforce their beliefs on others.)

      Also, separation of church and state means that the government will do nothing to promote any religion over another, including the belief that god doesn't exist. This should be especially true of the predominant religion since it is the one most likely to become a tyrant against the others.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:53 pm |
  10. ralph t

    Shut up already. Heaven could be anything, man. Liberals are supposed to be about Liberty, freedom. Instead, they've become synonymous with rules, the anti-thesis of Liberty. What is the percentage of Atheists in America anyway? 1%?

    July 7, 2011 at 2:35 pm |
    • Shut up

      No one mentioned liberals.
      Heaven was an obvious mention to the Christianity Heaven.
      Don't try to hide it saying it wasn't we all know very well what they meant.
      Regardless if it's a stupid battle don't be an idiot about it.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:37 pm |
    • Anthony

      There are no atheists in Heaven. Or in Hell, for that matter. In fact, there are several places even on this earth where there are no atheists. They can say they don't believe in God all they want, but their language and their actions say otherwise. Besides, belief or knowledge of something doesn't really matter in the long run anyway. I don't know anything about gravity, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't affect me.

      All I know is that I am going to get a real kick out of these hard core "I don't believe in anything and you can't make me" guys when they finally meet their maker. I don't pretend to know who or what god is, but I've seen nothing compelling enough to make me believe that there isn't a higher power that we will answer to someday. And if not, then even better. I'd rather not take any chances though. 😉

      July 7, 2011 at 2:51 pm |
    • Carla

      If the Pew folks are right, there are 15 Million Atheists in America. If the USA Today polls are right, the number is closer to 50 million. These are true Atheits, if you add the number of agnostics you are closer 37% of the population.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:56 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Anthony
      Pascal's Wager + Apocalyptic Schadenfreude = 1 Fatuous Fundie

      July 7, 2011 at 3:18 pm |
  11. Johnny

    Religious views were part of the cause in the killing of those innocent people and it's still going on today. Atheists aren't known for this same behavior. This sign could be seen as an insult to those who lost loved ones that day as their killers were after their own way in to their false paradise. A line must soon be drawn.

    July 7, 2011 at 2:35 pm |
    • James

      Well have any of those who lsot loved one said it is an insult.......

      July 7, 2011 at 2:38 pm |
    • Johnny

      I would assume there will be different opinions this is why I stated "could" be seen.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:40 pm |
    • Vish

      Ever hear of the Khmer Rouge?

      July 7, 2011 at 2:49 pm |
    • limited memory

      Dude, what kind of history classes have you been taking? Atheists and those who wish to dispose of religion are also known for depravity such as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. A man without God or any sort of theism is no guarantee that there will be no depravity in the world. Sorry, but atheist do not inherently have a higher morality than theists because they do not believe in a god.

      July 7, 2011 at 3:08 pm |
  12. James

    Bronstein shows his ignorance.....Christianity is not the only religion that has a concept of Heaven. Perhaps his issue is a hate of Christians and not a promotion of atheism?

    July 7, 2011 at 2:35 pm |
    • meemee

      Every time anyone, atheists or anyone makes a good point publicly against the dogma and mental harm of religious thinking, Christians start crying "persecution." I anyone objects you the 24/7 harangue by Christians in this country, they ares supposedly being "persecuted." They are lying hypocrites.

      July 7, 2011 at 3:10 pm |
  13. Turtle

    The phrase "separation of church and state" comes from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to Danbury Baptist Association.

    "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."

    July 7, 2011 at 2:34 pm |
    • limited memory

      However, Thomas Jefferson did not imply that there should be the exclusion of all religious expression in public life. It is Freedom OF Religion that he believed in NOT Freedom FROM Religion.

      July 7, 2011 at 3:10 pm |
    • meemee

      JennyTX; Atheists are not like Christians in that way. When Christianity was taking over Europe, they burned books, tortured and executed those they could not convert, led wars against entire groups of Europeans, etc., and strove to exterminate any memory or evidence that anything other than Christianity had ever existed. Then they named cities and towns after their own favorite people. I am sure you don't know what hypocrisy your statement represents.

      July 7, 2011 at 3:14 pm |
  14. JennyTX

    Will they fight to rename San Francisco, San Antonio, San Diego, and San Jose? Those are the names of saints.

    July 7, 2011 at 2:34 pm |
    • James

      Don't forget Corpus Christi .......give them time they will get around to it.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:37 pm |
  15. Lucy

    THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES / HOLY TRINITY CHURCH v. THE UNITED STATES
    143 U.S. 457, 12 S.Ct. 511, 36 L.Ed. 226 / February 29, 1892

    "These and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances THAT THIS IS A CHRISTIAN NATION."

    July 7, 2011 at 2:34 pm |
    • ARH

      Umm . . . actually it is the other way around. Between 1796 and 1797, under Washington, Adams, and the entire Senate of fouding fathers at the time the government said "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion . . . ." The U.S. was not founded as, did not become, and is not a Christian nation. Try reading history once in a while.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:41 pm |
    • Sad

      Very sad if that is true. This is not meant to be a chritian nation. The fact that any religion is even brought into the laws of this country is embarassing for everything people were hoping for when they came here. truly sad.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:42 pm |
    • NotLucy

      Lucy,

      Your quote, while accurate on its face, is entirely misleading.

      First of all, the Supreme Court was not saying that "this is a Christian nation" – they were saying that there is a bunch of "unofficial declarations" which say so.

      Furthermore, read just a few sentences further in the case in question, and they talk about how the same scenario would be applied in the case of a "Jewish synagogue with some eminent rabbi". If the Supreme Court were decreeing that this was a Christian nation, why even bother talking about a Jewish synagogue?

      July 7, 2011 at 2:49 pm |
    • meemee

      One of the things they came here for was freedom from religious persecution. The Founder knew that and made sure that no one would be persecuted for their beliefs. It happened anyway, but not as badly as in Europe. Read some history.

      July 7, 2011 at 3:17 pm |
  16. JFK

    We can see the Lord's handiwork written in the blue sky through the lens of this camera. It is so written...

    July 7, 2011 at 2:33 pm |
    • Anon

      god has a camera? neat.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:39 pm |
    • ARH

      Okay . . . (he says as he slowly backs away from the person with crazy behind their eyes)

      July 7, 2011 at 2:45 pm |
    • tffl

      Written by you? I _am_ impressed!

      July 7, 2011 at 2:45 pm |
  17. Denvercherub

    People of various religions should understand that it isn't what you express that defines you to your deity. It's more of what you can do on a personal level. So what if the atheist are blind. Let them have their petty way. It shouldn't affect you, it doesn't rip your religion from your heart. Let it go. It is very true that if New York paid for this sign then it is indeed wrong to include a single religion, as if all people believe in Heaven. I do but I will not force it on people. People have their own paths.

    July 7, 2011 at 2:33 pm |
    • Randy

      Please! If this sign said 7 Mohammed Way, the Christians would be standing arm in arm with the atheists.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:35 pm |
    • Denvercherub

      That was very random... I am saying let the atheist have their way. Whose side am I on? Read a book or two before you reply. I am sorry for your ignorance.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:38 pm |
    • Dan

      There are many things that I wouldn't like to see. I generally avert my eyes. If you don't like a street sign, don't look at it. It is meaningful to the people involved and many of us in the nation, and around the world. Because it offends someone, doesn't make it wrong. This is not, nor was it ever a secular nation. Political correctness does not mean, nor has it ever meant to sacrifice values or beliefs for someone else's. This simple sign in no way takes away an athiest's right to be athiest, and it doesn't push one's values on another. It commemorates people who were lost in a a horrible event. Those seven believed in heaven. What better way to commemorate them than to show that we honor them AND their beliefs.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:42 pm |
    • tffl

      Dan – no one is questioning their right to believe whatever they want. The question in the case of the street sign is "who paid for it?" If it was paid for by the public, is that fair to the part of the public that _doesn't_ believe that way? Would you be happy having your tax dollars paying for "Jihad Drive", "Satan Blvd.", or "God Doesn't Exist Ave"?

      July 7, 2011 at 2:51 pm |
    • meemee

      Most atheists are well educated people who are least of all, blind to the long, horrid, suffering brought into the world by those who insist on their religions and cannot just keep their delusions to themselves. Right up to the present, the atheist is the least blind of any pedestrian on the planet. Atheists care about the future, and don't see much of one with the apocalypse driven religions continuing to dominate the world scene. It's a mental illness, a neurosis becoming psychosis all the time. You can't stop chanting your dogma lest a bit of common sense return.

      July 7, 2011 at 3:23 pm |
  18. angrysmell

    ...and this is why people continue to think athiests are d0uchebags. its a sign with the word "heaven" on it, not someone putting a gun to your head telling you to "believe or die"...and its in memory of firefighters...who died in a terrorist attack...you...d0uchebags. there are literally 1000s of other religious things that are more worthy of athiest ire. heres two: female castration and polygamist cults. there. go fight those.

    July 7, 2011 at 2:33 pm |
    • Jason

      Polygamy? How is that Antheist talking point. Wouldn't that be more Women's Liberation? Besides, even Christianity allowed polygamy until Catholic Church outlawed it.I think bishops thought it was unfair they could only have one wife so they made it where no one could.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:39 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      God LOVES polygamists!

      GENESIS 4:19
      "Then Lamech took for himself two wives : the name of one was Adah, and the name of the second was Zillah."
      Deuteronomy 21:15
      "If a man have two wives, one beloved and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:"
      Exodus 21:10
      "If he takes another wife, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, and her marriage rights."
      King David is called "a man after God's own heart" and he had multiple wives.
      1 Samuel 25:43 states:
      "David also took Ahinoam of Jezreel, and so both of them were his wives."
      2 Samuel 5:13:
      "And David took more concubines and wives from Jerusalem, after he had come from Hebron. Also more sons and daughters were born to David."
      2 Samuel 12:8
      "Then Nathan said to David, "You are the man! Thus says the LORD God of Israel : 'I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. ' I gave you your master's house and your master's wives into your keeping, and gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if that had been too little, I also would have given you much more!"
      GENESIS 32:32
      "And he [Jacob] arose that night and took his two wives, his two female servants, and his eleven sons, and crossed over the ford of Jabbok."
      2 CHRONICLES 11:21
      "Now Rehoboam loved Maachah the granddaughter of Absalom more than all his wives and his concubines; for he took eighteen wives and sixty concubines, and begot twenty-eight sons and sixty daughters."

      July 7, 2011 at 3:26 pm |
    • meemee

      We do believe that it is logical that one must clean up one's own home before going out to clean others. Besides, we'd be getting in the way of all you Christian Missionaries, who go out, help people, convert them on the tacit promise of asylum, bring them into the U.S., get them into special programs that all taxpayers foot the bill for, and tell them how to vote. You people are the worst parasites and doing the greatest harm to the country than a army of atheists changing signs nation wide.

      July 7, 2011 at 3:27 pm |
  19. redidgreat

    Oh come on. Haven't they got anything better to do with their lives than making asses of themselves. It is a street name for crying out loud. If you don't like it do drive or walk on it. Leave the rest of us alone.

    July 7, 2011 at 2:33 pm |
  20. Faith is a disease of the human mind

    We need to elimintate faith as a term from the human vocabulary.
    let us use HOPE instead of FAITH!

    I HOPE that there is an afterlife where I float on a cloud with my grandpa but i will not have FAITH in the concept because in all rationality and logic it does not exist. When we die that is it the neurons in our brain rot away and we never exist again. Stop believing in fairy tales and come to terms with reality. Wake up and smell the coffee and see the truth for what it is. There are no gods, no goddesses, no angels or demons or afterlifes or reincarnation.

    July 7, 2011 at 2:32 pm |
    • Terry Anderson

      You better hope you're right "faith is a disease of the human mind" because if you aren't, and you certainly aren't, you're in for a world of hurt.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:36 pm |
    • Lucy

      It is a FACT that Jesus Christ died, was buried and then rose from the dead. He was the first to show us that there is, indeed, resurrection. This FACT was written in the history books by people who saw Him afterwards (check out Josephus who was NOT a Christian!). I'm sorry that you have so little faith but, guess what, you'll be resurrected also, but probably NOT to heaven. So sorry.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:38 pm |
    • AJ

      You could argue the very fact we exist at all is absolutely illogical at it's core concept. So for you to claim you know what happens after death is more than a bit pretentious.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:39 pm |
    • Steve

      What about True Blood? How can you say there are no demons, or angels.. Am I to believe there are no vampires and fairies too? Pure nonsense...

      July 7, 2011 at 2:40 pm |
    • JesusCrust

      And Terry, how do you know that YOUR god is the correct god to believe in? What if one of the gods of another religion is the only one that exists and will determine your fate? You should then pray and worship ALL of them then, right? Ya know, just in case

      July 7, 2011 at 2:43 pm |
    • redidgreat

      LUCY: hmmmm, you seem to show a lot of FAITH in the words of others. What if they are not true?

      July 7, 2011 at 2:45 pm |
    • Bruce B

      How do you know there is nothing after this life? In other words, although I may even agree with the concept of "there is no God, no afterlife etc.... it is just speculation, just as to believe is speculation. To each his own. Believe or don't believe.

      July 7, 2011 at 2:46 pm |
    • meemee

      There is reincarnation if you can see that your body and spirit lives on through the life its decomposition nourishes. The ancient Europeans knew that, I am an atheist philosophically, but spiritually, I see my life going on through the natural process of the life cycles. It is my ego identification that will not go on. No one's does.

      July 7, 2011 at 3:31 pm |
    • meemee

      BruceB; The burden of proof is on the claim for the extraordinary. So claimed miracles like life after death, that fly in the face of every observable practical and scientific evidence we have, then it is the claimant who must provide the proof. That is how law works as well.

      July 7, 2011 at 3:34 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.