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My Take: Catholics will accept a saint who had an abortion
Dorothy Day in New York circa 1969, addressing an anti-Vietnam War demonstration.
July 7th, 2011
01:43 PM ET

My Take: Catholics will accept a saint who had an abortion

Editor's Note: Stephen Prothero, a Boston University religion scholar and author of "God is Not One: The Eight Rival Religions that Run the World," is a regular CNN Belief Blog contributor.

By Stephen Prothero, Special to CNN

Can Catholics abide a saint who had an abortion?

Dorothy Day, who died in 1980, was an anarchist, a pacifist, and the co-founder of the Catholic Worker, a movement devoted to helping the poor and the homeless. Described by historian David O’Brien as “the most influential, interesting, and significant figure” in U.S. Catholic history, Day is currently being considered for canonization in the Catholic Church.

Before her conversion to Catholicism in 1927, however, Day lived what the late Cardinal O’Connor of the Archdiocese of New York has referred to as "a life akin to that of the pre-converted Augustine of Hippo." That bohemian life included common-law marriage and an abortion.

Some may feel that Day’s promiscuity precludes her cause for sainthood. But in his February 2000 letter to the Vatican in support of Day’s canonization, O’Connor contended “that her abortion should not preclude her cause, but intensifies it.” She is a model, he continued, “for women who have had or are considering abortions” because she “regretted” that action “every day of her life.”

Earlier this month, Father James Martin, the Jesuit priest, author, and go-to-guy on Roman Catholicism for Stephen Colbert (Colbert once called him “The Colbert Report chaplain”), reported on “A New Conversation” about Dorothy Day and abortion.

This private conversation with Catholic Worker member Daniel Marshall occurred in 1977 at a farm in Tivoli, New York. According to Marshall:

I seized the opportunity to ask Dorothy to write in the paper about abortion as possibly the central moral issue of our time.  She paused and gently answered, "I don't like to push young people into their sins" . . .

Then Dorothy said, "You know, I had an abortion.  The doctor was fat, dirty and furtive.  He left hastily after it was accomplished, leaving me bleeding.  The daughter of the landlords assisted me and never said a word of it.  He was Emma Goldman's lover; that's why I have never had any use for Emma."

I hung on every word that she said, not only because she was Dorothy, but because, although I had heard a rumor that she had an abortion, I was aware that few people knew of it from her.

I understood from Dorothy that she was asking me to comprehend what the consequences would be of a public statement from her on abortion and also that the public consequences might be a distraction from the issue and the cause.  What she thought of abortion was clear as a bell from what she said.

But what she thought of abortion is not “clear as a bell” from this interview. What is clear is her disgust over her procedure, and over the “fat, dirty and furtive” doctor who performed it.

Elsewhere, however, Day did make clear her opposition to abortion on pacifist grounds.

For example, in a 1974 interview, she turned a question about genocide into a discussion about birth control and abortion. “We do believe that there is not only the genocide of war, the genocide that took place in the extermination of Jews, but the whole program—I’m speaking now as a Catholic—of birth control and abortion, is another form of genocide.”

Some day, Day may be accepted into the communion of saints as a modern Augustine whose depths of youthful sin make her adult piety even more spectacular. But she could also be rejected as a figure who could well lead some Catholics to justify premarital sex and abortion on the grounds that “Dorothy Day did it.”

On a 2007 “Colbert Report” appearance, Father Martin was asked whether Mother Teresa’s feelings of being abandoned by God had earned her a one-way ticket to "the Lake of Fire." Revelations that Mother Teresa had said she had not felt the presence of God for half a century had raised questions in some circles about just how saintly she really was. Can you be a saint if God feels as distant from you as He does from an atheist–if your experience of God is an experience of lonely "darkness"?

Yes, Martin said, adding that in this case Mother Teresa could serve as a model for Catholics going through a dark night of the soul.

Day's case raises a parallel question. Can you be a saint if you have committed the original sin of contemporary Catholicism?

My money says yes.

Partly that is because of the Christian teaching of forgiveness. But mostly it is because of the tendency of Catholics to diverge from the official party line on questions such as homosexuality, birth control and abortion.

According to a June survey by the Public Religion Research Institute, most American Catholics (54%) think that abortion should be legal in all or most cases. More than two-thirds of them (68%) believe you can be a good Catholic even if you disagree with your church’s opposition to abortion. And when it comes to the question of whether abortion is a sin, white American Catholics are evenly divided.

Of course, rank-and-file Catholics do not decide who is declared a saint. But they decide who will be revered as one. And in this case, I believe, they will forgive Day's sin in part because, in their heart of hearts, many of them don't consider it all that much of a sin in the first place.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Stephen Prothero.

- CNN Belief Blog contributor

Filed under: Abortion • Catholic Church

soundoff (582 Responses)
  1. Blondie99

    Should it prevent her from being a Saint, no will it prevent her from being a Saint, yes. As a wayward Catholic myself, I can assure you that those old white men running the church who are supposedly celibate and know nothing about a woman's health or choices that she faces, will never stand for this. The church has a policy that anyone who uses birth control should be excommunicated from the church, that includes use of condoms to protect from disesase and includes married people. It does not matter if you have heavy periods, hormonal problems or use the piill for some other reason than to prevent pregnancy still excommunication and grave sin. If in fact this occured 80% of the US Catholic Church would be excommunicated. The church excommunicated a nun running a hospital because she made the decision to abort a child when if she did not, the mother would have likely died. Seriously? The Catholic church has arcahic and discriminatory practices towards women in place and they will not change. Wonder why most of our churches are empty and devoid of young people?

    July 8, 2011 at 9:26 am |
    • Sam

      The Catholic Church does NOT have discrimatory policies against women.
      The Sister who approved of the abortion either did not know of other treatments for that woman's
      affliction or the doctors told her that there was no other treatment. All she has has to do is go to confession,
      admit that she sinned, seek forgiveness in full contrition and receive forgiveness.
      As a husband and father of 2 children, my biggest sin was not learning the full teaching of the Church
      on our role of bring immortal souls into being in partnership with God. When we practiced contraception, we did so out of ignorance and poor teaching but now I wish I'd have known better and had more children.

      Catholic women can use the pill to treat health problems but they can not use it for a contraception.
      I know you are thinking , huh? If you wife took the pill for heavy periods and the severe health problems associated but you did not have marital relations the 1 week she'd have otherwise been fertile then you most likely would not be sinning... would that mean that you'd only have 2 weeks a month to have marital relations? yes!

      With Mary being the seconds most revered person in a Catholics world, I do not understand how a Catholic who is well-cathecized could say that the catholic Church discriminates against women. It most certainly does not!

      July 8, 2011 at 11:16 am |
    • William Demuth

      So if a priest wears a condom when he buggers a little boy he goes to hell, but if he buggers bareback then his is the kingdom of Jesus!

      Makes perfect sense in a group that believes in demons, ritual canabilisim and condems the gay lifestyle, yet worships a man who hung around with his mother, never took a lover and spent many a night in caves with little boys.

      July 8, 2011 at 12:37 pm |
    • Jeff

      In health problems among women, the pill actually covers up the problem and does not heal the women. If you want real solution look up Napro technology. Also, the churches are now full of youth more on fire with the faith then ever before. Ever heard of World Youth Day, Steubenville Conferences, NCYC, Lifeteen, or FOCUS? As a college age "youth" myself, I know and have seen for myself that young Catholics are more on fire, into their faith, and orthodox than ever. That is why the religious orders that support things like gay marriage, contraception, and abortion are not receiving vocations and the orders that don't support such things are thriving and often overflowing with young people wanting to join their orders to serve the Lord in the Truth.
      And no, the Church does not support straight out abortion, but if the baby dies due to a procedure needed to save the woman's life such as taking out her womb due to cancer or something like that, it is not a sin. Butt the outright killing of the baby is wrong. The first is not considered abortion. Also, it is a myth that condoms protect against diseases. They do not.

      July 8, 2011 at 12:49 pm |
    • Stevie7

      "Also, the churches are now full of youth more on fire with the faith then ever before."
      Is that why nearly one in three people who were raised Catholic no longer identify themselves as Catholic?

      " it is a myth that condoms protect against diseases."
      Nothing like a few lies to justify needlessly prolonging a global pandemic! But at least those dying of AIDS in Africa won't be so so hungry.

      July 8, 2011 at 1:24 pm |
    • Floyd

      @William Demuth – it is clear you are a simple-minded jerk, and where your mind is and what your obsessions are. You are quite sick and need help dealing with your twisted thoughts and outright bigotry that has no real foundation. Get away from the PC once in a while ya lunatic.

      July 8, 2011 at 4:49 pm |
    • Floyd

      @Stevie7 – you may want to look closer at the wrapper of those condoms. The disclaimer is quite clear that it "reduces the risk", no guarantees. The only guarantee is abstinence, that is the point and that is a fact. People have s3x, of course they do so the use of condoms is smart. But in only that it will mitigate the risk, not stop it. So just keep lying to yourself and others and play that roulette wheel of luck. I am sure it will all work out fine for you.
      Oh, and stop making up stats. My church is now over capacity and a new parish is being planned.

      July 8, 2011 at 5:05 pm |
    • Stevie7

      He said prevents. Not 100% prevents all of the time in all cases. Chemotherapy isn't 100% effective, yet we're not telling cancer patients to give it up.

      July 8, 2011 at 5:21 pm |
  2. Sarah

    Well, the Church has saints that performed abortions, there are a number of references in the early literature to miracles of disappearing fetuses. See for example Cogitosus's reference to St Brigid of Kildare. So why not.

    July 8, 2011 at 8:54 am |
  3. vicki

    You lost me at anarchist.

    July 8, 2011 at 8:29 am |
    • Godzilla

      Everyone loses everyone at anarchist. lol

      July 8, 2011 at 10:10 am |
  4. Reality

    Going beyond Ms. Day and into the arena of the contemporary abortion and STD epidemics:

    o The numbers, the calculations and two "bottom liners":

    "Facts on Co-ntraceptive Use

    http://www.gu-ttmacher.org/pubs/fb_contr_use.html

    January 2008

    WHO NEEDS CONTRACEPTIVES?

    • 62 million U.S. women (and men?) are in their childbearing years (15–44).[1]
    • 43 million women (and men) of reproductive age, or 7 in 10, are se-xually active and do not want to become pregnant, but could become pregnant if they or their partners fail to use a contraceptive method.[2]
    • The typical U.S. woman (man?) wants only 2 children. To achieve this goal, she (he?) must use contraceptives for roughly 3 decades.[3]

    WHO USES CONTRACEPTIVES?
    • Virtually all women (98%) aged 15–44 who have ever had inte-rcourse have used at least one contraceptive method.[2](and men?)
    • Overall, 62% of the 62 million women aged 15–44 are currently using one.[2] (and men)
    • 31% of the 62 million women (and men?) do not need a method because they are infertile; are pregnant, postpartum or trying to become pregnant; have never had inter-course; or are not s-exually active.[2]
    • Thus, only 7% of women aged 15–44 are at risk of unwanted pregnancy but are not using contraceptives.[2] (and men?)
    • Among the 42 million fertile, s-exually active women who do not want to become pregnant, 89% are practicing contraception.[2] (and men?)

    WHICH METHODS DO WOMEN (men?) USE?
    • 64% of reproductive-age women who practice contraception use reversible methods, such as oral contraceptives or condoms. The remaining women rely on female or male sterilization.[2]

    FIRST-YEAR CONTRACEPTIVE FAILURE RATES
    Percentage of women (men?) experiencing an unplanned pregnancy (a few examples)
    Method ....... Typical
    Pill (combined) 8.7
    Tubal sterilization 0.7
    Male condom 17.4
    Vas-ectomy 0.2
    Periodic abstinence 25.3
    Calendar 9.0
    Ovulation Method 3.0
    Sympto-thermal 2.0
    Post-ovulation 1.0
    No method 85.0"
    (Abstinence) 0
    (Mas-turbation) 0

    More facts about co-ntraceptives from
    guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_contr_use.html

    "CON-TRACEPTIVE METHOD CHOICE
    Con-traceptive method use among U.S. women who practice con-traception, 2002
    Method ..... No. of users (in 000s) ...... % of users

    Pill 11,661 30.6
    Male condom 6,841 18.0

    i.e.
    The pill fails to protect women 8.7% during the first year of use (from the same reference previously shown).
    i.e.
    0.087 (failure rate)
    x 62 million (# child bearing women)
    x 0.62 ( % of these women using contraception )
    x 0.306 ( % of these using the pill) =
    1,020,000 unplanned pregnancies during the first year of pill use.

    For male condoms (failure rate of 17.4 and 18% use level):

    1,200,000 unplanned pregnancies during the first year of male condom use.

    The Guttmacher Insti-tute (same reference) notes also that the perfect use of the pill should result in a 0.3% failure rate
    (35,000 unplanned pregnancies) and for the male condom, a 2% failure rate (138,000 unplanned pregnancies).

    o Bottom Line #1: The failures of the widely used birth "control" methods i.e. the pill and male condom have led to the large rate of abortions ( one million/yr) and S-TDs (19 million/yr) in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the Pill or condoms properly and/or use other methods in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and S-TDs.

    Bottom line #2-
    Currently, a perfect birth control/STD barrier system does not exist. Time to develop one! In the meantime, mono-ma-sturbation or mutual ma-sturbation are highly recommended for hete-rose-xuals who need a contraceptive. Abstinence is another best-solution but obviously the se-x drive typically vitiates this option although being biological would it not be able to develop a drug to temporarily eliminate said drive?

    -------------------------------------------------–

    July 8, 2011 at 7:58 am |
  5. coastiegirl

    Mr. Prothero– a religious scholar from a school as prestigious as Boston U– should know that the teachings of the RCC state that the Church doesn't make people Saints, God does. So, regardless of whether or not Ms. Day had an abortion or not, if God reveals her as a Saint in heaven (as opposed to a saint, which is used to describe all who make it there after Judgement Day), she's a Saint in Heaven...........

    July 8, 2011 at 7:58 am |
    • Futbol Czarina

      It is still up to the individual Catholic who to revere. Whether Ms Day is selected as a saint remains to be seen, but will be equally telling in the coming decades by who her followers might be.

      July 8, 2011 at 9:33 am |
  6. John Richardson

    And here I thought that maybe they had canned Prothero ...

    July 8, 2011 at 7:03 am |
    • BG

      Nah. He just went on a Mediterranean cruise with Arlene Ocasio. Welcome back, Steven!

      July 8, 2011 at 9:22 am |
    • Godzilla

      He should have visited Japan. Our food would make him glow with happiness!

      July 8, 2011 at 10:14 am |
  7. Etkoom Speerie TootwoOh

    No surprises (actually). Liberals by whatever persuasion prove man did not evolve from apes, but from swine. It probably could be argued that swine descended from liberals.

    July 8, 2011 at 3:51 am |
    • Sybaris

      With a name like Etkoom Speerie TootwoOh I can see why you would think that way.

      July 8, 2011 at 7:03 am |
    • Doh Me Noose Vo Bis Koom

      Not so fast. 😈

      July 8, 2011 at 4:39 pm |
  8. tmm77625

    All the saints were sinners at some point.

    July 8, 2011 at 12:54 am |
    • Pleased to Meet You

      And All the Sinners Saints.
      Why does the Catholic religion endorse worshiping people, dead and alive?

      July 8, 2011 at 1:36 am |
    • dalis

      You ask your friend to pray for you? Does that mean you worship him?

      July 8, 2011 at 5:23 am |
    • News Flash

      Many cultures worship their ancestors/dead.

      July 8, 2011 at 5:26 am |
    • Sean

      Isn't it amazing that CNN has anti-relgious, anti-Christian people writing in their religion blogs? It is truly amazing to me that they actually believe they're doing a service by having the people who want to dismantle Christianity attempting to speak as an authority about Christianity. Idiocy like this is what passes now at these news stations. Not surprising that Ted Turner is an anti-Christian bigot and it spreads throughout the company. This writer Prothero has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. He claims that most Catholics are not pro-life. Good job buddy, now go to the hole from which you came.

      July 8, 2011 at 7:56 am |
    • Sybaris

      @ Sean
      "having the people who want to dismantle Christianity attempting to speak as an authority about Christianity. Idiocy like this is what passes now at these news stations."

      Actually ex-christians and atheists raised in a predominately christian region are usually more knowledgeable about christianity than those who claim to be christian and just drink the kool-aid.

      July 8, 2011 at 8:44 am |
  9. sine metu

    Stephen Prothero, i like how you use rhetoric to stop short of giving full definitions of catholic doctrine in order to better create incongrous thoughts that just sound so soothing, placaing the hedonists'/ materialists' worries of responsibility and accountability by slinging mud at people who actually TRY being saintly.
    Doesnt your editor see how anemic and moribund your writing and general character are?

    Even if Prothero is an embarrasment to journalism and CNN, unlike Augustine or Dorothy Day, he will only be a nuisance until his death or unemployment. Catholicism has not been tried and found wanting by Stephen; he's just not tried it 🙂

    July 8, 2011 at 12:46 am |
    • News Flash

      One does not have to "try" walking in front of a bus to know it is not good for one.

      July 8, 2011 at 4:54 am |
  10. sine metu

    Stephen Prothero, i like how you use rhetoric to stop short of giving full definitions of catholic doctrine in order to better create incongrous thoughts that just sound so soothing, placaing the hedonists'/ materialists' worries of responsibility and accountability by slinging mud at people who actually TRY being saintly.
    Doesnt your editor see how anemic and moribund your writing and general character are?

    Even if Prothero is an embarrasment to journalism and CNN, unlike Augustine or Dorothy Day, he will only be a nuisance until his unemployment. Catholicism has not been tried and found wanting by Stephen; he's just not tried it 🙂

    July 8, 2011 at 12:45 am |
  11. kingnpriest

    Mother Teresa had not felt the love of God, because she was not born again. Same goes for the memoriors of John Paul II. He writes of how he whipped himself, and never felt right with God. The reason is, that our works will never make us right with God. If it were possible to become right with God on our own merit, then why would Christ Jesus have to die?
    He died on the cross, to take our sins upon himself, so we can come to God, through Christ, John 14:6. Our salvation is not based upon works, but upon GRACE. Galatians 2:16 BELIEVE!!

    July 8, 2011 at 12:07 am |
    • Steve

      The beautiful thing about faith is..."If" ya have it, works come right along with it! After all faith without works is dead!

      July 8, 2011 at 12:31 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      "then why would Christ Jesus have to die?"
      -- Why indeed ? The whole paradigm is bizarre.
      a. JC NEVER endorsed the payback scheme.
      b. If it were the motivation for his activities why wouldn't he talk about it plainly, in so many words ?
      c. Even if he thought he was the "messiah" the minority of Jews looking for one were looking for a political leader.

      July 8, 2011 at 3:46 am |
    • Buddy R

      @Bucky Ball: I assume you are an atheist, which would explain your utter cluelessness about the Bible. Jesus stated many times that he came to die for the sins of the world.

      Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

      Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

      Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

      July 8, 2011 at 8:46 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      Buddy R
      Since you are not a biblical scholar I would not expect you to understand that there are only 7 "sayings" of
      Yeshua bar Josef that are agreed upon as authentic. None of those you quote are among those.

      http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/james_still/historical_jesus.html

      July 8, 2011 at 9:04 am |
    • Godzilla

      @Bucky
      That is some good "Jew Jitsu"!

      July 8, 2011 at 10:17 am |
  12. vssaucouer

    Polls taking account those Catholics who attend Church regularly usually show a flock much more in line with Church Teaching. I'm not sure how individuals can consider themselves Catholic if they do not receive the sacraments regularly and do not follow the Teachings of Christ handed down through the Church He established.

    July 7, 2011 at 11:38 pm |
    • Stevie7

      Where do you draw the line in the sand for who gets to actually be a Catholic. Are church-attending, sacrament-receiving Catholics who acknowledge evolution as a sound scientific principle and who believe that Adam and Eve were fictional characters used to symbolize our immorailty not Catholic? Are church-attending, sacrament-receiving Catholics who use birth control not Catholic? If you start eliminating everyone who is not in lock step with every teaching of the church I think you'll find yourself in a very lonely club.

      July 8, 2011 at 8:14 am |
    • Finch

      I am Catholic, and yet there are no Catholic churches in the area for me to attend, so I go to a local Korean church with my husband, but still take my time out to pray the rosary and meditate over my prayers. Does this make me something else, because I cannot go to a catholic church and recieve the sacraments formally? It just seems odd, because in my heart I still follow a lot of the church's teachings.

      July 8, 2011 at 8:26 am |
  13. Jennifer

    @Forgiving .... are you kidding me? have you never heard of Rachel's Vineyard? or any of the numerous post-abortion healing ministries?
    Once again the media hypes what "rank and file" Catholics believe, which in my experience mostly means "cultural Catholics" (how many actually go to Mass every Sunday and every Holy Day of Obligation) who make absolutely no effort to lead a Catholic life, but suddenly take the label when it's convenient for them
    Theology is not, and never has been, a democracy, and not everyone who calls themselves Catholic is equally qualified to hold forth on what Catholics believe
    Typical media blather blather blather

    July 7, 2011 at 11:32 pm |
    • dalis

      More and more Catholic Cemeteries are providing places in Catholic Cemeteries for women to go to mourn their abortion. That doesn't sound like holding a grudge to me.

      July 8, 2011 at 5:26 am |
  14. Name*DN3

    Ok, bythis same logic, Saint Paul shouldn't have been canonized either since he was a murderer before Jesus spoke to him.

    July 7, 2011 at 10:37 pm |
    • Finch

      Well played, good sir.

      July 8, 2011 at 8:28 am |
  15. Liz the First

    I wonder if she'd been so regretful if she hadn't had to go to a back-alley butcher who may well have killed her. this experience is what the anti-Choice fanatics would condemn us to all over again. regardless of what the fanatics would have us believe, abortion is not wrong, it is not murder. it is not a sin. it is a sometimes life-saving medical procedure that the churches didn't have a bit of a problem with until doctors made the mistake of enlisting the churches' help in their campaign to make it illegal for anyone except a qualified medical professional to perform one. the churches went overboard and succeeded in having it banned totally, but up till then it was a non-issue. the whole idea of sainthood is ludicrous. we're all going back to the same place and are all equal in the eyes of God. this is basically idolitry.

    July 7, 2011 at 10:27 pm |
  16. frank

    A fair percentage of the Church's saints were vicious brutes who'd nowadays probably be indicted for crimes against humanity...

    July 7, 2011 at 9:53 pm |
    • Spiffy

      Could you give me the percentage and your source?

      July 7, 2011 at 10:38 pm |
    • frank

      I'm sorry, it's classified.

      July 8, 2011 at 12:36 am |
  17. HotAirAce

    To some extent, given that 72% of abortions in the USA are had by believers, and a pretty good percertage of those must be catholics, she is a perfect role model.

    July 7, 2011 at 9:34 pm |
    • DiamondSky

      @HotAirAce, true Christians are the weekly church attenders only. Americans say they are Christian only because they don't know any other. Anyone can claim to be anything.

      July 8, 2011 at 4:03 am |
    • Finch

      @ Diamond Sky:
      There is so much wrong with that logic... I mean, what about people who CANT go to church or don't have the luxury of attending? What about them? Abused kids, People who have to work 7 days a week to pay bills, Those whose families dont allow them to attend (teens or small children) - what about them? Are they not real christians because they don't go to church??

      July 8, 2011 at 8:31 am |
    • News Flash

      Adellina, Odessa, Frederica, HeavenSent, Whatever-Your-Name-Is Today
      You are only partially correct. The REAL real really real TRUE true truly really really truly really truly TRUE really true
      Christians actually really truly NEVER leave church and actually worship 299 times per day, as opposed to those filthy
      infidels who only worship 298 times per day. God is only going to save those who worship the (299 x 366 = 109434) in leap years) and NOT the 298ers will all be going to hell. You really really truly really need to repent.

      July 8, 2011 at 10:56 am |
    • HotAirAce

      @DiamondSky

      So the next time I meet somebody who tells me they are a christian, I should doubt them, assume they are lying and ask to see their church attendance record? I would have thought that the christian thing to do would be to believe them until it was clearly proven that they were not, and even then, forgive them and welcome them into the christian cult.

      July 8, 2011 at 6:08 pm |
  18. Amunaka

    I love Catholicism ..so many saints ..so little time to pray to them all .. I'm still praying to the saint of lost buttons ...

    July 7, 2011 at 8:55 pm |
  19. JT

    Saints are simply a marketing tool for the church. It also gives the deluded followers something tangible since the saint was once a human proven to have existed on Earth. It's such a scam that it's facinating to see what religion does to the human mind. The Protestant cult is no different of course with their mega-churches and equally absurd practices.

    July 7, 2011 at 8:51 pm |
  20. Forgiving?

    You will often hear forgiveness from the pulpit, accept when discussing abortion. The agenda seems to have elevated abortion to be the most horrific of all sins, incapable of forgiveness. It would be interesting to see if the Church would recognize a saint that had an abortion when they will not allow anyone involved in an abortion to become a deacon.

    July 7, 2011 at 8:29 pm |
    • dalis

      It would depend on if the deacon is repentent. Forgiveness is easy to grant, not so easy to accept.

      July 8, 2011 at 5:31 am |
    • William Demuth

      I refuse your forgivness, and will up you one more fetus.

      Keep forgiving as fast as you can, but I assure you we will abort more just the same.

      July 8, 2011 at 8:59 am |
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