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July 14th, 2011
05:11 AM ET

Irish report damns Catholic Church abuse response

By Richard Allen Greene, CNN

The Catholic Church in Ireland did not take serious steps to stamp out child abuse by priests even after the scandal blew up worldwide and the Irish bishops put rules in place to stop it, a new report says.

The report demolishes claims by the Catholic Church there that policies it put in place in 1996 have enabled it to get a handle on the problem.

The Church's explanation that it was on a "learning curve" in handling allegations of abuse "could not have had any basis or relevance in Cloyne," said the report, which focuses on the diocese of Cloyne around Cork in southern Ireland.

Ireland's top churchman, Cardinal Sean Brady, called the report "another dark day in the history of the response of Church leaders to the cry of children abused by Church personnel."

Ireland's Foreign Ministry summoned the Vatican representative in the country, Archbishop Giuseppe Leanza, for talks with Foreign Minister Eamon Gilmore on Thursday following the publication of the report.

The report accuses Bishop John Magee, who was responsible for policing abuse in his diocese, of not backing the policy himself and failing to take action against abusers.

"Magee took little or no active interest" in child sex abuse cases for 12 years after the new policy was put in place, the report says, and Monsignor Denis O'Callaghan, who ended up in de facto charge of policing abuse "did not approve of the requirement to report to the civil authorities," the comprehensive report says.

Allegations of abuse within the diocese of Cloyne were so worrying that the Church appointed a special administrator to oversee it.

That archbishop, Dermot Clifford, said he accepted the findings of the report and "humbly apologized" to victims and their families.

And he expressed horror that the church did not act on its anti-abuse policies.

"It appalls me that, up to 2008, 13 years after these procedures were put in place, they were still not being implemented in the Diocese of Cloyne" Clifford said in a statement.

Clifford said Magee and O'Callaghan "accepted full responsibility and apologized for their failures."

Pope Benedict XVI accepted Magee's resignation as bishop of Cloyne in March 2010.

The report also details allegations against Magee himself.

A man referred to by the pseudonym "Joseph" reports that Magee held him in "protracted" embraces, asked him if it "felt good," kissed him on the forehead, told him that he loved him, and said he had dreamed about him.

"Joseph" considered the attention paternal at the time, he told the report's authors, but later reconsidered in light of reports into abuse and raised the issue with another priest.

"I began to think that maybe it wasn't as innocent as I originally thought or assumed it was," he says. He says the events occurred when he was 17 and 18 years old.

The priest to whom Joseph complained reported the matter to the church's own child protection authorities, who considered it "inappropriate" but ruled it did not constitute abuse.

They did not report it to the police but did tell Magee about the accusation and reported it to church officials as high as Cardinal Brady and the Vatican's representative in Ireland, the report says.

Joseph took the issue to the police, who also told him it did not constitute abuse, the report says.

The Vatican also failed to back Irish anti-abuse rules introduced in 1996, saying they were not official policy, according to the report, which was released Wednesday.

While it focuses on the diocese of Cloyne, it follows four earlier independent reports into abuse by Catholic priests and officials in Ireland going back decades.

The 421-page report, which is partially redacted, details complaints against 19 clerics in the diocese between 1996 and 2009.

CNN's Carol Jordan and Journalist Peter Taggart contributed to this report.

- Newsdesk editor, The CNN Wire

Filed under: Catholic Church • Ireland • Scandal • Sex abuse

soundoff (624 Responses)
  1. John

    Cardinal Sean Brady is still weariing the funny clothes. When he takes them off and denounces the fraud of a religion, I might listen to him.

    July 14, 2011 at 11:37 am |
    • William Demuth

      Oh please no, everytime he takes his robe off, another boy gets buggered.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:40 am |
    • Voice of Reason

      As I said in another reply further down – In 30 years of working with Social services in Child Protection, the people who respond with filthy or hateful rants against Child Abusers and Gays really hated themselves. Quite often you rcognize them as closet abusers or gays. And the filthier they are – and the more graphic they are – the more likely they are to be so. [Not always but MUCH more likely] People who despise degenerates who abuse usually show their disgust in a more genuinely thinking way.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:26 pm |
  2. Colin

    I wonder if the utopian dream below will ever be realized. My dream headlines in the New York Times.

    LAST CHURCH IN THE USA CLOSES.

    Reuters AAP – The last place of worship the USA officially closed its doors yesterday. The Church of Christ Baptist Church in Tuscaloosa, Alabama held its last service at 10:00 on Sunday morning and was promptly shuttered by its pastor. “While I will be sorry to see a tradition pas.s, I guess it was time to move on,” declared Pastor Kevin Smith, “It saddens me a little, but I can no longer preach things I no longer believe in myself. Also, given that my congregation is elderly and poor, donations are down to a spasmodic trickle.”

    The closure marks the culmination of a dramatic surge in secularism in the USA following the Catholic Church scandals of the early 21st Century. After phone hacking by Rupert Murdoch’s Fox News Network revealed that the Pope and virtually all Archbishops were acutely aware of the depth of the pedophilia problem since the 1950s, sweeping new policies were implemented under President Gibbs’ administration (2040-2048).

    Under his “No Mind Left Behind” policy, children were taught science, history, psychology and critical thinking from their first year of school. It was not until they were in their early teens and had a grounding in healthy skepticism and independent thought, that any supernatural belief, such as astrology or religion was allowed to be presented to them. Such beliefs were, of course, almost universally rejected by them. Within a generation or two, humanism and personal responsibility had replaced relgion in virtually all of the USA.

    As interest in the supernatural dwindled, the vacated churches, synagogues and mosques in the USA were sold off and the proceeds invested in a fund which, under the XXV Amendment to the US Const.itution, could only be used to further scientific education and environmental awareness and protection. Already the fund has been responsible for returning vast swaths of land to their natural state, in the USA and elsewhere and has largely been credited for ensuring the survival of the tiger, cheetah and mountain gorilla.

    As people have increasingly realized there is no sky-being looking out for us, donations to the Bill and Malinda Gates Foundation, the Red Heart (f/k/a “Red Cross”) and Doctors Without Borders are at an all time high. “Looking back, it’s weird to think of some of the nonsense people believed as late as the early 21st Century,” commented Pastor Smith, as he locked the doors and walked nonchalantly from his church. “I guess you can’t judge them too harshly, though. When you’re taught it from such an early age and then told it’s immoral to even question it, I guess you are easy prey.”

    July 14, 2011 at 11:31 am |
    • Christopher

      Yes, the day the antichrist is able to assume world domination

      July 14, 2011 at 11:47 am |
    • William Demuth

      Happily ever after!

      Tragicly, we all know we will have to have a boat load of bloodshed first.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:47 am |
    • Colin

      Christopher, you do realize that the idea of "Big Daddy Baddie" is every bit as preposterous to the atheist as the concept of "Big Daddy God," right?

      July 14, 2011 at 11:50 am |
    • fimeilleur

      Big Daddy Baddie: LOVE IT!!!

      July 14, 2011 at 11:59 am |
    • PeterVN

      Colin, here`s to your dream becoming reality.

      Quote you are probably very familiar with:
      "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"
      –apparently by Denis Diderot

      July 14, 2011 at 1:53 pm |
    • Colin

      Thanks Peter, yes, it is one of my favorites.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:59 pm |
  3. Aidan

    Religion is man made evil invention. Read Richard Dawkins God Delusion.

    July 14, 2011 at 11:30 am |
    • John

      Richard Dawkins is also a man. He is an outspoken atheist, which cannot be proved anymore then one can prove God exists.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:41 am |
    • Colin

      Loved it, It is up there with Sagan's "Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors" as my two of my best best 10 non-fiction reads of all time.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:42 am |
    • William Demuth

      John

      We reviewed your stupidity YEARS ago in this forum.

      YOU must provide some evidence of your claim. The ability to refute a claim MUST function in logic

      Otherwise I can insist that The Incredible Hulk created humanity.

      The burden is on those who make the claim, and the more extreme the claim the greater the burden.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:44 am |
    • fimeilleur

      I'm in the middle of "God is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything" by Christopher Hitchens... the more I read, the more I realize how they (Dawkins, Hitchens and others) put into words things that I've suspected all along.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:04 pm |
    • Colin

      Ever read "The Demon-Haunted Universe" by Carl Sagan? That is a great book too. He basically labels every common supernatural delusion one by one and then takes the arguments for each down. I recommend it to all of my religious friends who have some understanding of why certain supernatural claims are false, but have yet to turn their thoughts back on themselves to realize that their ideas about God and faith are just as fallacious.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:49 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      So, we Christians are weird because we believe in the Bible. But you thinkers [I use the word loosely], right here, can ridicule what we believe based on books written by random authors who write fiction for profit . And who, copied facts – out of context – to make their points, then presented them as proof????? You're having a laugh. None of you has an original thought in your head.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:36 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      @ Voice of Reason,
      Tell us then, in what context is Genocide morally acceptable?
      In what context is selling one's daughters into s3xual slav ery morally acceptable?
      In what context is stoning a child to death for the simple "crime" of disobediance?
      Your God has much to answer for.

      Second, your bible was also written by random authors. At least these authors, and those who write fiction for profit are honest enough to admit they are writing fiction.

      The proof your bible is wrong is contained IN the bible... Genesis 1:11-12 and 1:26-27 Trees came before Adam.
      Genesis 2:4-9 Trees came after Adam.

      Genesis 1:20-21 and 26-27 Birds were created before Adam.
      Genesis 2:7 and 2:19 Birds were created after Adam.

      Genesis 1:24-27 Animals were created before Adam.
      Genesis 2:7 and 2:19 Animals were created after Adam.

      Genesis 1:26-27 Adam and Eve were created at the same time.
      Genesis 2:7 and 2:21-22 Adam was created first, woman sometime later.

      July 14, 2011 at 5:44 pm |
  4. del

    Man-made church with men in funny clown costumes and affairs with nuns.

    July 14, 2011 at 11:05 am |
  5. Andrew

    Tax them all!! Tax every church, religion, anything to do with GOD and watch as they all head for the exits...Religion is a 'man made' business and should have no special exemptions of any kind. Just think of all the wars we would eliminate alone!!

    July 14, 2011 at 11:03 am |
  6. Doc Vestibule

    1. In 1962, The Vatican relased the 'Crimen Sollicitationis', which outlined how the church is to handle accusations of se.xual impropriety against clergy.
    The stickiest point for most people is that not only was the doc.ument itself Top Secret for decades, it explictly stated that anybody involved in this type of investigation, including the accuser and potential witnesses, are sworn to secrecy regarding any and all details, upon penalty of excommunication (a fate worse than death for the devout).
    This preoccupation with secrecy significantly slowed the investigative process – the backlog of referrals to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith for action against se.xually abusive priests is so large that it takes 18 months to get a reply.
    According to the John Jay report, 918 of 1872 (49%) substantiated allegations of abuse against Catholic clergy were addressed by sending the priest off for psychiatric counseling and then moving him to another parish, with nary a whisper to law enforcement. This number does not include priests relocated for reasons other than charges of se.xual impropriety.
    The Irish Commission to Inquire Into Child Abuse from 2009 came to the conclusion that ""the Dublin Archdiocese's pre-occupations in dealing with cases of child se.xual abuse, at least until the mid 1990s, were the maintenance of secrecy, the avoidance of scandal, the protection of the reputation of the Church, and the preservation of its as.sets. All other considerations, including the welfare of children and justice for victims, were subordinated to these priorities."
    But the abuse is certainly NOT limited to Ireland.
    Jose Barba Martin of Mexico tried for years to have his accusations against the founder of the Legionaries of Christ heard by the congregation. In the end, it took eight years for Rome to discipline the Rev Marcial Maciel, and require him to live a life of reserved prayer. Maciel died in 2008 before the Legionaries admitted he had fathered at least one child and molested young seminarians.
    A letter written by a now-dead Canadian bishop shows church officials knew of se.xual abuse allegations involving a priest before his promotion to a top Vatican post and then discussed with Vatican officials how to keep the scandal from becoming public.
    There is also Catholic priest who was defrocked after a nun accused him of rap.ing three children in Bolivia who has been living with his family in Uruguay for more than a year – with the full knowledge of Uruguayan church officials – despite an Interpol warrant for his arrest.
    2. In summation: The Roman Catholic Church is guilty of criminal conspiracy. Until the Pope publically and unequivocally states that all allegations of abuse will immediately be referred to local law enforcement, the RCC will be viewed as an evil, predatory inst.itution by a large portion of the world.

    July 14, 2011 at 11:01 am |
    • Samuel

      The Congregation for the doctrine of the faith, better known as " The Inquisition," was designed to consolidate power. There is no justice there. Those foxes own the hen house. Chickens cannot expect justice from fox headquarters.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:27 am |
    • Colin

      Thanks Doc – copied and pasted for future reference and utilization....

      July 14, 2011 at 11:37 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      It is inevitable that this ends up in the ICC.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:42 am |
    • Christopher

      The fact the Catholic Church thinks it can excommunicate someone out of heaven - that it has this power and not God - should make all its followers wake up and walk out.

      To all Catholics: Read your Bible: No man has the power to excommunicate you. You do not need any man to get you into heaven.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:49 am |
    • Colin

      Except Jesus! That is one man you believe someone needs in order to get into Heaven *facepalm*

      July 14, 2011 at 3:51 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      a@Colin – Neither God nor the Church EVER excommunicates anybody. By seriously disobeying the laws of God you excommunicate YOURSELF. The Church recognises the fact that you have, by serious word, deed or action excommunicated YOURSELF then they endorse YOUR decision. Will you stop issuing forth boring amounts of sheepdip without knowing ANY facts.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:57 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      Sorry this reply is to Christopher AND Colin.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:59 pm |
    • Stevie7

      @Voice of Reason,

      From catholic.com: "when properly understood within the context of canon law, it is a penalty that the Church only applies in the rarest of cases"

      The 'it' here is excommunication and clearly it is a penalty the church applies, not something that one applies to oneself.

      There's this also: "Being a penalty, it supposes guilt; and being the most serious penalty that the Church can inflict,"

      July 14, 2011 at 5:06 pm |
  7. HPNIII

    The problem is simple, the Catholic church hiarchy are so accustomed to peddling the belief they are somehow closer to God than a regular person, they also believe they are somehow above the law of us common people. Child molestation is against the law, if you are in an administrative position whereby you are aware the law is routinely be broken and you do not report the incident to the law, then that makes you an accessory to the crime and should be arrested and jailed along with the person who actually committed the crime. All these law suits and the problems continue, I think it is getting time for someone to stick a dick up their ass to help them understand what is going on.

    July 14, 2011 at 10:52 am |
  8. Eric

    Not to dismiss the rest of the article, but the single most important piece of information for an article detailing such a report is WHO WROTE IT. Not that I'm questioning the contents, but that seems like a pretty important, basic piece of information for an article devoted entirely to covering the report. Was it a national government commission? A local commission? A victim advocacy group? An internal church committee? This is like reviewing an autobiography without listing the name of the subject. Sloppy.

    July 14, 2011 at 10:45 am |
    • John

      I agree.

      The report was commissioned by the Irish government.

      July 14, 2011 at 10:48 am |
    • chief

      re eric.... your stupid response is like when some starts a joke with "now im not predjudice, but there was a ..... that went into a bar....

      July 14, 2011 at 10:54 am |
  9. D

    If by response you mean doing nothing and sweeping it under the rug...then yeah...i guess they have had some kind of response.

    July 14, 2011 at 10:39 am |
  10. Darwin

    It's even more horrible when you realise that this child molestation by CATHOLIC PRIESTS has been going on over the last THOUSAND YEARS of Catholic dominance in Ireland. No doubt HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Irish children have been abused by PRIESTS and of course covered up by their bishops.

    July 14, 2011 at 10:37 am |
    • Agnostic Theism

      NOT JUST IRELAND – THE ENTIRE PLANET

      July 14, 2011 at 10:38 am |
    • William Demuth

      Is that why the suck at soccer?

      July 14, 2011 at 11:23 am |
  11. John

    For more on Catholic abuses against children, read this e book: House Of The Turtles, on dealing with and healing from child abuse perpetrated by Catholic parents in the suburbs of Columbus, Ohio with the church's indifference a major factor.

    Let's bring it closer to home now, knowing these abuses have been going on for centuries, not decades, and certainly not just in Ireland.

    July 14, 2011 at 10:36 am |
    • Conky2012

      Why would you want to read more about children being molested. You are just as sick as the priests.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:05 am |
    • fimeilleur

      @ Conky2012, Do you prefer that people ignore the facts? Stay ignorant of the occurance? Because that is how the priests got away with it for so long... people just didn't talk about it because they refused to believe that they could be deceived by people "of high moral standing". Thanks, but I'll risk reading about kids being molested rather than propogate ignorance.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:27 am |
    • John

      It happpened to me, Conky.

      House Of The Turtles is autobiographical.

      Thanks for continuing the Silence.

      July 14, 2011 at 8:58 pm |
  12. troll hunter

    pedophile priests should be dis-robed and thrown into the general population of the prison. disgusting perverted twist of religion. just as bad as islamic terrorists and should be treated as such. i believe in god and have an ebb and flow of faith but, i will never adhere to any form of man-made religion. they're all disgusting and have their own agenda, not god's will or compassion.

    July 14, 2011 at 10:28 am |
    • Agnostic Theism

      The end of organized religion, (i.e organzied crime) is well on it's way. Soon everyone will worship God as they should....as free thinking individuals who do not buy into the ungodly control propaganda created by fellow humans who seek to control other human beings. God has nothing to do with religion.

      July 14, 2011 at 10:37 am |
    • Samuel

      The religion of militarization needs to be brought down first. Individuals who march to the drummer of the destroyer cannot be trusted to bring peace and true prosperity. The key desire is to rule the world. The key tool is military force blessed by the church. The claim is that if you are not in the church then you are not in the kingdom of god. Everything outside that definition of the kingdom of god is marked for destruction. Convert or die. In the distant past the children were tasty morsels from fiery child sacrifice. Those who worship the destroyer will destroy. Child abuse is a destructive act. Destructive systems cannot change their characteristics. They must forsake their allegiance to the god of destruction and conquest and repent.

      July 14, 2011 at 10:58 am |
    • Cp

      Funny how other smaller faith's have been persecuted for ex-communicating members who don't adhere to Bible standards, yet the RCC has been given free reign for 100's of years.

      Funny what happens when you preach politics from the pulpit!

      July 14, 2011 at 11:55 am |
  13. Mattski

    Sick-o's, all of 'em.

    July 14, 2011 at 10:28 am |
  14. Cynthia

    In all abuses by the Church or church personnel, there are many in positions of authority who are upset that matters are reported to secular authorities. Since day one the Roman Catholic Church has held the belief that priests should never be judged by 'civilians', but be treated as the Princes of the Church they are, not as criminals.

    July 14, 2011 at 10:25 am |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      @Cynthia

      Indeed, there is a hint in the Bible that the Church should have here own jurisdiction, but probably regarding civil law.

      Child abuse belongs to criminal law. Christians may have some conflicts, subject to the civil law, but will they ever commit crimes against each other, subject to the criminal law???

      Any person (layman or clergyman), abusing children repeatedly, must be shut off from the Church. The Church may turn him in on or not. Be shut off, is yet a punishment.

      July 14, 2011 at 10:40 am |
    • chief

      re ranier.... are barkiing mad.... you the chuech may or may not turn them in ? and for offenses committed repeatedly? these are kids lives and these priests, and the church that protects them should be improsoned for life.

      July 14, 2011 at 10:57 am |
    • William Demuth

      SO the princes of the church bugger little boys until they bleed and then warn them if they tell Satan will have their mothers soul in hell?

      Crucify the deviants on their own altars and burn their churches down around them.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:36 am |
    • Voice of Reason

      In 1996 it was REQUIRED , not an option, for Bishops to report these debased and criminal abusers to the civil authorities. They failed to do so. They are therefore complicit in the abuse of minors; as are the police who turned victims away when they reported it. I, as a Catholic found about it from the media – the same as you did. So how can all Catholics be to blame?

      Are all Americans murderers because their government illegally entered another country and executed OBL? NO, because Reason dictates otherwise.

      As for those rambling on that Hitler and the rest of his bunch were Catholics; may I say that if ANYONE does what they did, publicly, proudly, and deliberately they are no longer Catholics. They excommunicated THEMSELVES. God does not excommunicate. I could spout publicly that I was a Hindu – it wouldn't make me one.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:46 pm |
  15. RobinMO

    This is what happens when there is no separation of church and state.

    July 14, 2011 at 10:20 am |
  16. Aezel

    Ohai! You choose to attend a Church who is in the business of brainwashing you to believe in magical men in the sky. Are you surprised that they think if they can convince you of that bulls*** that they can get away with pretty much anything?

    July 14, 2011 at 10:19 am |
  17. Joe

    I feel sorry for you@ William Demuth

    July 14, 2011 at 10:07 am |
    • William Demuth

      I don't need your stinking sympathy

      July 14, 2011 at 11:20 am |
  18. Barry

    Oh, and I failed to mention, the Apostle Peter in his New Testament epistle writes that judgment will begin with the house of faith.

    In other words, don’t think that just because a person is religious—or even if they’re a religious leader—that they’re exempt from God’s judgment. The Apostle James in his New Testament epistle writes that religious leaders will be judged by a stricter standard than others.

    Remember what the old preachers used to say: Sitting in a church no more makes you a Christian than sitting in a henhouse makes you a chicken.

    July 14, 2011 at 10:05 am |
    • kme

      "Oh, and I failed to mention, the Apostle Peter in his New Testament epistle writes that judgment will begin with the house of faith."

      Oh Jeez, so now this horrific situation is an affirmation of Christian truth? That's cult thinking right there.

      July 14, 2011 at 10:51 am |
    • William Demuth

      Barry

      Gods Judgement? Is that like Barney's Judgement, or the Judgement of the Power Rangers?

      How about some human judgement, and some execuations of those who harm children.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:38 am |
    • Voice of Reason

      @kme – did you READ what Barry said?????? If not I respectfully suggest that you try again, slowly.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:51 pm |
  19. Glades2

    I'll never understand these message boards – they are here for reasonable conversation and opinions, but in the end they are often taken over by a very young crowd that knows nothing, except to insult whomever they believe are deserving, but of course they become angry when someone offends them – perhaps the old saying about people who live in glass houses applies here...

    July 14, 2011 at 10:00 am |
    • William Demuth

      I am older than you, better educated than you, and WAY better looking as well.

      Back to your church whako, and wait for the mob with the torches to arrive.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:39 am |
    • Voice of Reason

      @William Demuth – You have some anger issues and an inflated sense of your own importance and for that you have my sympathy. The fact that you can say – with a straight face – that you are cleverer and better looking than Glades2 reduces the evidence of your reasoning powers to ashes.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:59 pm |
  20. Rainer Braendlein

    Concerning the issue of child abuse we must have a short look on ecclesiastical history.

    The history of the Church started in Jerusalem. After Christ's ascension and the arrival of the Holy Spirit the disciples started to gather within the Temple, that they you used as a church building. The Temple of Jerusalem was the first Christian cathedral. Besides many small congregations in Israel, Antiochia became the second center of Christianity. Antiochia was the home church of St. Paul. In the course of time the Church spreaded from Israel to Asia Minor (today Turkey) and Greece and Italy.

    It is interesting how the Church in Jerusalem developed. According to Acts, first the 12 apostles were deciding. But we should not imagine that they ruled like kings or bosses or like any earthly rulers. The 12 apostles were "guardians of God's mysteries". They had lived together with the Lord for years and were witnesses of his death and resurrection. Christ was the cornerstone of the Church and they were the foundation stones of the Church. They had a profound knowledge of the Christian doctrine, which they had received by Christ. Their capability to teach the truth gave them a supremacy within the Church (of course, the were not greedy for power). Within any company the elders just have a supremacy, because they have a lot of experience and knowledge. In the course of time the Church of Jerusalem elected elders. This shows that the apostles did not want to hold on any power (a real clergy will never reach out for power, but will take care of the souls of his brothers and sisters). When there were questions about the doctrine, the apostel, the elders and the whole congregation gathered, in order to figure out the truth, led by the Holy Spirit. Read Acts, and check it out.

    In conclusion: The Early Church did not know any papacy. They had more or less a parlamentary system (influenced by the Holy Spirit).

    What has all this to do with child abuse?

    Answer: The Roman Catholic Church (controled by the pope) has developed out of the Christian Church (parlamentary ruled). From her very biginning the wicked popes tried to concentrate all power within the Church on themselves. This is an ongoing process, that has not yet finished. The RCC more and more becomes a body (in the real sense of the word) with the pope as its head.

    Arround 1000 years after Christ the wicked Roman Catholic clergy decided to establish mandatory celebacy, which was not known within in Church up to this point of time. The clergy wanted to prevent ordinary Christians (laymen) for reaching out for ecclesiastical offices. Up to 1000 after Christ elders or bishops were simply elected from the congregation. The pope wanted to make sure that he had the control over every single congregation.

    This system we still have within the RCC today. The priests are not eclected from the midst of the congregation, but imposed on the congregation by the pope.

    Thus, child abuse is a consequence of the wicke pope's greed for power, honour and money.

    Chase the pope away, and become happy! No celibacy, no crime!

    Note: Only a few people can live in celibacy without losing their hormonal balance. Better touching my wife, than any child!

    July 14, 2011 at 10:00 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      Hi Rein,
      "we must have a short look on ecclesiastical history" ....not short enough ! :twisted;

      BTW, Acts say NOTHING about them meeting in the "temple". 1:13 "When they entered the city they went to the upper room where they were staying". 2:1 "When the time for Pentecost was fulfilled, they were all in one place together". They would have been run out of the temple just as their leader was, (as he got executed for messing with the money changers).

      "were witnesses of his death"
      -- No they weren't, they ran away.
      "They had a profound knowledge of the Christian doctrine"
      -- That must be why they fought about it so much.
      "Only a few people can live in celibacy without losing their hormonal balance"
      -- So you're an endocrinologist now ?

      Anyhow, you may have missed it, but I asked you yesterday what is the largest media outlet in Germany, or the one which most Germans read/see daily ?

      July 14, 2011 at 10:44 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      not short enough ! 😈
      I hate it when that happens.

      July 14, 2011 at 10:45 am |
    • John

      The Jerusalem Church was located at Qumran and James was its High Priest. We can leave the Temple in Jerusalem out of this, knowing Jesus and his followers were not centered there, and the 'Twelve Apostles' were anything but if you ignore Mary the Magdala's supremacy as Peter did.

      What the Twin Pillars offered was not a democratic rule we see in the church of Rome Constantine and successive emperors founded, but hereditary roles within the royal houses Jesus and Mary the Magdala represented as the Egyptian based Freemasons they actually were. Jesus performed Masonic rites not as a carpenter but as a Master Mason as was Joseph.

      We need an historical shift to find the truth, not more of the same from Rome and its misguided followers.

      July 14, 2011 at 10:45 am |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      @Bucky Ball

      How are you?

      I have read Acts "till the cow comes home". I assure you, they gathered within the Temple (the high priests could not harm them, because the folk had lapidated them. The folk loved the apostles, because of the miracles, they performed.)

      That is, what we see in Northern Africa today: The folk has some power.

      I suppose TV (ARD and ZDF) have a monopoly of information. Besides die Bild, die FAZ, die Welt, die Zeit and other newspapers may have some influence. I prefer DLF (Deutschlandfunk), which is a radio station.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:08 am |
    • John

      The church was sick from the very beginning. Starting with the Apostle Paul who brought "Christianity" to Rome and Greece to the unlearned (Gentiles) 2Pet 3..."as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him"..."As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." Rome and it's church murdered everyone that would not follow it's doctrines, except a few that were able to flee away to the four corners of earth. My own family was murdered and tortured at the hands of this evil congregation as is recorded in history. They took Jewish texts by force, murdered those who wrote the text, then claimed authority over them. There is NOTHING good about this "church". It is sick from head to toe. Only the unlearned will follow it.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:32 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      "lapidate". Great word. That's a new one on me.

      If Acts doesn't talk about them in the temple how do you know that ?

      Thanks for the media info, I need to start reading more than just US stuff. Did you know 80 % of you guys, (Europeans) believe in evolution, while only 20 % of us see it as a more valid theory. You folks are WAY ahead of us. Our schools suck.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:51 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.