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July 14th, 2011
05:11 AM ET

Irish report damns Catholic Church abuse response

By Richard Allen Greene, CNN

The Catholic Church in Ireland did not take serious steps to stamp out child abuse by priests even after the scandal blew up worldwide and the Irish bishops put rules in place to stop it, a new report says.

The report demolishes claims by the Catholic Church there that policies it put in place in 1996 have enabled it to get a handle on the problem.

The Church's explanation that it was on a "learning curve" in handling allegations of abuse "could not have had any basis or relevance in Cloyne," said the report, which focuses on the diocese of Cloyne around Cork in southern Ireland.

Ireland's top churchman, Cardinal Sean Brady, called the report "another dark day in the history of the response of Church leaders to the cry of children abused by Church personnel."

Ireland's Foreign Ministry summoned the Vatican representative in the country, Archbishop Giuseppe Leanza, for talks with Foreign Minister Eamon Gilmore on Thursday following the publication of the report.

The report accuses Bishop John Magee, who was responsible for policing abuse in his diocese, of not backing the policy himself and failing to take action against abusers.

"Magee took little or no active interest" in child sex abuse cases for 12 years after the new policy was put in place, the report says, and Monsignor Denis O'Callaghan, who ended up in de facto charge of policing abuse "did not approve of the requirement to report to the civil authorities," the comprehensive report says.

Allegations of abuse within the diocese of Cloyne were so worrying that the Church appointed a special administrator to oversee it.

That archbishop, Dermot Clifford, said he accepted the findings of the report and "humbly apologized" to victims and their families.

And he expressed horror that the church did not act on its anti-abuse policies.

"It appalls me that, up to 2008, 13 years after these procedures were put in place, they were still not being implemented in the Diocese of Cloyne" Clifford said in a statement.

Clifford said Magee and O'Callaghan "accepted full responsibility and apologized for their failures."

Pope Benedict XVI accepted Magee's resignation as bishop of Cloyne in March 2010.

The report also details allegations against Magee himself.

A man referred to by the pseudonym "Joseph" reports that Magee held him in "protracted" embraces, asked him if it "felt good," kissed him on the forehead, told him that he loved him, and said he had dreamed about him.

"Joseph" considered the attention paternal at the time, he told the report's authors, but later reconsidered in light of reports into abuse and raised the issue with another priest.

"I began to think that maybe it wasn't as innocent as I originally thought or assumed it was," he says. He says the events occurred when he was 17 and 18 years old.

The priest to whom Joseph complained reported the matter to the church's own child protection authorities, who considered it "inappropriate" but ruled it did not constitute abuse.

They did not report it to the police but did tell Magee about the accusation and reported it to church officials as high as Cardinal Brady and the Vatican's representative in Ireland, the report says.

Joseph took the issue to the police, who also told him it did not constitute abuse, the report says.

The Vatican also failed to back Irish anti-abuse rules introduced in 1996, saying they were not official policy, according to the report, which was released Wednesday.

While it focuses on the diocese of Cloyne, it follows four earlier independent reports into abuse by Catholic priests and officials in Ireland going back decades.

The 421-page report, which is partially redacted, details complaints against 19 clerics in the diocese between 1996 and 2009.

CNN's Carol Jordan and Journalist Peter Taggart contributed to this report.

- Newsdesk editor, The CNN Wire

Filed under: Catholic Church • Ireland • Scandal • Sex abuse

soundoff (624 Responses)
  1. AvdBerg

    History cannot be proven wrong, unless you change it of course or want to ignore it. For a better understanding of the history of the Catholic Church we invite you to read the articles The Mystery Babylon and Popes and Princes of This World listed on our website http://www.aworlddeceived.ca

    July 14, 2011 at 1:24 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Dude stop hawking your creepy stuff

      What are you looking for, some idiots to rip off?

      July 14, 2011 at 1:59 pm |
    • Scott

      History cannot be proven wrong? Dude, history comes from a bunch of people studing old stuff and makeing up a story where all the stuff fits. History cannot be proven right

      July 15, 2011 at 10:26 pm |
  2. Barry

    WilliamDemuth,

    You say that Michelangelo and daVinci were fools!

    Really?

    Do you also think that Socrates, Plato and Aristototle were fools?

    July 14, 2011 at 1:21 pm |
    • justme

      barry; you are wasting your time with william deidiot (see page 2) i had to leave but i came back to see he gave up on me and here he is i hope he doesn't respond to this since i won't give him another chance but you are welcome to but just be warned i know you have better things to do, jg

      July 14, 2011 at 1:28 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Barry

      No far from fools. They took their ability to observe and grew on it. I read their works often

      In fact I recomend you do the same. But MA was a fully blown looney toon.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:55 pm |
    • William Demuth

      justme

      My aplogies, I was overcharging some Christians.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:56 pm |
  3. Stevie7

    "God is not prepard SEND anyone to Hell unless they choose to go."
    -–
    Of course, naturally no one would choose to go to hell, but anyway. Why would a loving god who wants to share heaven with everyone give us no concrete evidence of his existence, a book of inconsistencies that contains ambiguous rules that we must follow to get into heaven, give us about 70 some years to get things right, and then sit idly by while we are tortured for all of eternity if we don't meet his qualifications. Something here doesn't add up.

    July 14, 2011 at 1:19 pm |
    • SoM

      Of course it doesn.t add up. The church would have you believe that God commands us to love, forgive and bless our enemies while He is incapable of doing the same to His. They call His love unconditional while at the same time they put conditions on it with their eternal torture doctrines. These hell wishers with their turn or burn policies have done more damage to out Lord's image than pagans from the past have done to their false gods.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:41 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      If you really think God has left us high and dry look up the "Divine Mercy " website. It explains what Jesus' mercy is about and how easy He is willing to make it for us. You seem to be genuinely looking for answers. Go for it. Nothing to lose – much to gain.

      July 14, 2011 at 5:05 pm |
    • Scott

      God does this for his amusement. He gave us a bunch of conflicting rules, told us we will burn in hell if we don’t follow all of them and then sat back to watch the fun

      July 15, 2011 at 10:29 pm |
  4. ProudToBeCatholic

    God can do whatever He wants. He doesn't have to justify His action to you because He is God. Our life in this world is a trial before you spend the eternity after you die. So, whatever the injustice, violence, and cruelties you're seeing are just part of the game like when you're facing obstacle during football game. God never promise happiness in life (afterlife is indeed if you pass the test) but He'll be with you when you ask Him. So, relax and enjoy the game of your lifetime while it lasts.

    July 14, 2011 at 1:18 pm |
    • Stevie7

      So, just so we're clear, god creates us so that he can put us on trial and test us and if we fail he'll stand by and let us get tortured forever. I should think, then, that the gospel of John got it REALLY wrong. god != love

      July 14, 2011 at 1:30 pm |
    • Nonimus

      Just a thought but, if "God can do whatever He wants" then don't be surprised when His "promise," of happiness in the afterlife for those who pass the test, doesn't actually happen. After all, He can do whatever He wants, right?

      July 14, 2011 at 1:49 pm |
    • ProudToBeCatholic

      Technically Speaking, YES! If He chose to abandon His promised. But that is not what is written in the scriptures. But let's get real here, regardles you choose to believe in Him or not, there is one certainty you can't deny, that is you cannot cheat death and you cannot get rid of evil of this world by not believing in Him and His promise. Let me ask you the grand question: what is the meaning of our life if he does not exist? Are we just born and die with no purpose? Be as well sit and do nothing or kill ourselves for that matter if that's the true. Why do you want to continue on living if you can't escape the inevitable?

      July 14, 2011 at 2:19 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      @ Proud (one of the deadly sins, right?)
      If you believe that a person could live his entire life doing good, caring for others, follow all laws, etc. yet REJECT God, this person would surely go to hell... then your God is not worthy of praise or adulation for he is selfish, egocentric and cruel.
      If you believe that this same person, God would have mercy on him/her and allow them passage into heaven, then your God is irrelevant and belief in Him is no longer required.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:20 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      To your next empty question...
      For the betterment of Mankind. To ensure survival of the species... just like ALL other life on this planet. We have developped a social structure that is mutually beneficial to the others of our society. The more we improve it, the better the chances of our survival. If you need a God to justify your existance and happiness, this says more about you and your own selfworth, than it does about me.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:24 pm |
    • ProudToBeCatholic

      Obviously, we don't know how God would judge us sinner. We don't even know what kind of moral standard He is using. If you read "The Return of Prodigal Son" story, he is even throw a party for any sinner (regardless how big the sin is) who return to Him. Even Jesus told one of the criminal who is crucified beside Him "Today you will be with me in Paradise" after he repent at his last breath. So, we cannot second guess what God is going to do.

      For the question you call it empty, it sounds like you just don't know the answer and call it empty. The way you call us species and survival of our kind make us looks like a bunch of animals. We create society between us because we are so weak that we can't live by ourselves alone. But when we die, the thing that we call society does not matter anymore, it's our own salvation that matters (do you think as a soul/spirit/energy whatever you call it, it matters to form any kind of society?). You might not realize it but at the end every man is for himself. If we keep on living just for our species to survive, that's really pathetic you know. If our Planet dies, none of us will survive and that's a fact. So, like the Borg says "Your Resistance is Futile!"

      July 14, 2011 at 2:57 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @ProudToBeCatholic,
      "Technically Speaking, YES! If He chose to abandon His promised."
      So, God can, if He chooses, commit a sin? Sin against what?

      July 14, 2011 at 3:41 pm |
    • Stevie7

      "What is the meaning of our life"
      -Who said that life had to have meaning?

      "Be as well sit and do nothing or kill ourselves for that matter if that's the true."
      -So the only thing between you and suicide is a 2000+ year old book?

      "The way you call us species and survival of our kind make us looks like a bunch of animals. "
      -We are

      "We create society between us because we are so weak that we can't live by ourselves alone. "
      -pretty much. Civilization – the act of people banding together to create something greater than themselves – is what has allowed us to flourish as a species.

      "But when we die, the thing that we call society does not matter anymore, it's our own salvation that matters (do you think as a soul/spirit/energy whatever you call it, it matters to form any kind of society?)."
      -I hate to break it to you, but when any of us die, society will continue to matter. Just not to us, since we're dead and won't know any better.

      "If we keep on living just for our species to survive, that's really pathetic you know."
      Survival of the species is what drive us not to commit suicide. Who ever said that we live only for the survival of our species? I keep on living because I enjoy life, like what I do for a living, and love spending time with my family. I don't need a deity for that.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:45 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      @ Stevie7
      Thanks for that... but I'd add that humans are not the only species that lives in society... not only primates but pods of whales, prides of lions, all examples of groups of individuals, working together, for the betterment of the group.

      @ Proud,
      – Obviously, we don't know how God would judge us sinner. We don't even know what kind of moral standard He is using.
      So why are you trying? If you don't know what moral standard your God is using, how do you know that you are pleasing him? I presented you with a situation... I see two outcomes... one is right, or neither is right and there is a third option that I haven't considered... care to enlighten me? Or does "god works in mysterious ways" satisfy you? As for the alledged criminal that was cruxified... God forgives a bad man who seeks forgiveness yet rejects a good man who doesn't believe? So much for justice.

      – If our Planet dies, none of us will survive and that's a fact.
      So why is it that the creationists think that this planet is our God-given right, to do with as we see fit... in the words of Sarah Pallin "Drill baby drill".

      It is the Realist and the humanist that knows full well this is the only planet (so far) that we have. We are the ones who live life to the fullest, because it is the only life we have to live... the rest is fantasy (like the Borg)

      July 14, 2011 at 4:19 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      But Stevie – our lives are a trial anyway. We are bound by the laws of the land [ which are, by the way, based on the 10 Commandments – there would be chaos otherwise.] We have money problems, accomodation worries, illness, new bugs to cope with, unnatural weather, natural disasters etc etc. If you believe that is all there is , then you disappear in a puff of smoke, great – that's your privilege. But if you believe that you have done your best to keep the commandments [ even if you mess up and have to try again and again] Then you deserve a break at the end of your life and God will say, "Welcome, good and faithful servant..." The ONLY things that will really harm your chances are :– Completely, utterly and willingly denying God's existence. Failing to carry out God's command to treat one another as you would have God treat you. If you followed the 10 Commandments you'd do all of these.

      July 14, 2011 at 5:19 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      @ Voice of Reason,
      Your comment brings me back to my original comment in this thread directed at Proud...
      Is your God selfish, egocentric and cruel? or just irrelevant?

      July 14, 2011 at 5:50 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      @Voice
      There are 628 commandments, (at least)..........you picked out the 10 how ?

      July 14, 2011 at 6:01 pm |
    • ProudToBeCatholic

      @ fimeilleur
      None of those! God doesn't create evil, men does. God doesn't stop evil because we ask Him our free will. We are all like small child, when our parents warn us, we're doing otherwise. He will help you when you ask ("Ask and Ye Shall Receive") although it doesn't always go the way you want it.

      July 14, 2011 at 6:13 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      @ Proud... – God doesn't create evil? who made Hell then? the very definition on Evil... an eternal TORTURE device... one that you believe I will surely go to because... I don't believe in your God... or maybe I will because belief in Him is unnec.... we're going in circles here...

      God doesn't create evil, men do... you may be right on this point... man created god, who created hell... ergo... man created evil.

      Free will implies that I can do something unpredicted... but your god is omnipotent and knows everything, past, present and future... kind of kills the spontanious notion of freewill. He knew Ted Haggart was going to SIN, but was powerless to stop him...(I'm not talking about hom ose xuallity, I'm talking about the millions of dollars he stole from gullible people)... blows that omnipotent argument out of the water...

      July 14, 2011 at 6:57 pm |
    • Stevie7

      @Voice of Reason:
      "The ONLY things that will really harm your chances are :– Completely, utterly and willingly denying God's existence."
      -Would that be your god, or just any god. Because if one denies the existance of your god, then many – if not most – recepients of the noble peace prize could be headed to hades. Even if its any god, than your saying that someone who did as much for this world as say Einstein has the potential to be tortured forever just for the sole reason that he didn't believe in a god.

      That is not a loving god. That is a sadistic, vengful, narcissist. But I don't deny that the Christian god is like this – there are far more stories dealing with god's seemingly inexplicable wrath than there are passages stating that god is love.

      July 15, 2011 at 8:09 am |
    • Stevie7

      And really, if we just want to take the golden rule as the be all and end all then there should be no problem with being pro choice (I don't want anyone to tell me what to do with my body) and pro-gay marriage (I don't want to deny anyone their civil rights).

      July 15, 2011 at 8:32 am |
  5. Barry

    William Demuth,

    God will deal with them (as well as you and me) in the next life, and he will deal with them in this life, as well.

    July 14, 2011 at 1:03 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Barry

      Given a chance I will deal with a few of them myself.

      Justice to me is QUITE real, and I shall not permit them to hide.

      Just a few weeks ago one of them was beaten to death in a prison in Boston, and I am contributing to the killers defense fund.

      These animals MUST pay.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:14 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @Barry,
      "God will deal with them (as well as you and me) in the next life..."
      What good does that do?
      "... and he will deal with them in this life, as well."
      Apparently not, else why did this happen at all.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:54 pm |
    • Scott

      Oh yes, god punishes people in this life abusing and using him. Just look at Howard Camping, god has punished him with $80,000,000

      July 15, 2011 at 10:37 pm |
  6. Barry

    Dear KME,

    You call the church a cult and imply that it is fantasy, but you statement simply betrays your ignorance.

    From its inception (the beginning) the church has been a diverse group of believers, who held varying beliefs about virtually every matter of faith.

    Consider the writings of Origin, Justin, Tatian and others.

    Consider the Gnostic Christians, the followers of Marcion.

    Consider the controversies about what to do with those who denied the faith when confronted with the prospect of torture and martyrdom and then wished to return to the church.

    Are you aware that the last thing Socrates said, as he was on his deathbed, was: Make sure to pay my debt to the gods, for the pledge I made to them?

    Would you say that Socrates, his student Plato, and his student Aristotle were foolish for their religious beliefs?

    Are you aware that Socrates (viz, Plato) believed and taught that the things not seen (ie., invisible) are more real than the things that are seen?

    Were Micelangelo and Leonardo Da Vinci foolish for having faith in God?

    July 14, 2011 at 12:57 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Plus Barry, you do realize that Michealangelo was crazy as a loon, right?

      Truly one of the worst mentsl patients in history, so his beliefs are akin to todays Alien Abduction theorists.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:18 pm |
    • NOT MY CHAIR

      Would you say that Socrates, his student Plato, and his student Aristotle were foolish for their religious beliefs?

      Are you aware that Socrates (viz, Plato) believed and taught that the things not seen (ie., invisible) are more real than the things that are seen?

      yes they were foolish compared to our knowledge now, how many of their statements are still believed to be true? they also believe the earth was the center of the universe. lastly i don't think they were Christians.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:40 pm |
    • Nonimus

      Foolish for claiming to have faith, no.
      Socrates was charged and executed for, in part, atheism, or impiety, or heresy, depending on the interpretation. So, were his last words an admission that he really did 'believe in the gods of the state,' or was Socrates/Plato being sarcastic/ironic/etc.

      As for the others, after Socrates' treatment, and later Galileo's, I think the others were wise to at least claim to be men of faith.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:19 pm |
    • AvdBerg

      For a better understanding we invite you to visit our website http://www.gaychristian101.com

      July 14, 2011 at 3:47 pm |
    • pfeffernusse

      @Barry, the earliest Christians were a diverse group. After Rome sacked Jerusalem in 70 CE, Christianity became more Hellenized and Ancient Greek, instead of Aramaic, because the accepted language of Christianity. There were three centers of Christianity and one of them was in Rome. When Constantine converted to Christianity and called the Nicea Council, that group of Christians in Rome were selected as the “true” faith.. In a bid to solidfy his power, Constantine declared all other forms of Christianity heresy and himself as the head of the new “true” Church. Other denominations, especially the Gnostics, were brutally persecuted by the new Catholic (katholicos) Church. One the Church became the law of the land, other expressions of Christianity were no longer accepted.

      It was during this time that the Eastern Orthodox churches broke with the new Roman faith, because of disagreements in scripture and dogma.

      July 21, 2011 at 1:19 pm |
  7. Barry

    KME,

    You call the church a cult and imply that it is fantasy, but you statement simply betrays your ignorance.

    From its inception (the beginning) the church has been a diverse group of believers, who held varying beliefs about virtually every matter of faith.

    Consider the writings of Origin, Justin, Tatian and others.

    Consider the fact that there are four Gospels, with varying presentations of the same matter.

    Consider the Gnostic Christians, the followers of Marcion.

    Consider the controversies about what to do with those who denied the faith when confronted with the prospect of torture and martyrdom and then wished to return to the church.

    Are you aware that the last thing Socrates said, as he was on his deathbed, was: Make sure to pay my debt to the gods, for the pledge I made to them?

    Would you say that Socrates, his student Plato, and his student Aristotle were foolish for their religious beliefs?

    Are you aware that Socrates (viz, Plato) believed and taught that the things not seen (ie., invisible) are more real than the things that are seen?

    Were Micelangelo and Leonardo Da Vinci foolish for having faith in God?

    July 14, 2011 at 12:57 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Yes they were.

      But beliefs from the past mature, at least for some of us.

      I do not condem the Christians of the past for their abominations, but I do condemn the Christians of today for not condeming their own faith.

      At some point it is nescesary to put away childish things, so please ask your faith to mature and stop destroying my society.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:02 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      With your permission I will ask a few questions.

      "From its inception (the beginning) the church has been a diverse group of believers, who held varying beliefs about virtually every matter of faith. Consider the writings of Origin, Justin, Tatian and others. Consider the fact that there are four Gospels, with varying presentations of the same matter. Consider the Gnostic Christians, the followers of Marcion.
      -- If the supposed origin of all this is omnipotent, why would it not just conclusively settle the matter, once and for all ? If the "diverse" group held diverse opinions, then my opinion is of no more value than any other, without appealing to some (other) authority.

      Consider the controversies about what to do with those who denied the faith when confronted with the prospect of torture and martyrdom and then wished to return to the church.
      -- Pretty difficult to do AFTER one has been burned at the stake.

      "Are you aware that the last thing Socrates said, as he was on his deathbed, was: Make sure to pay my debt to the gods, for the pledge I made to them? Would you say that Socrates, his student Plato, and his student Aristotle were foolish for their religious beliefs? Are you aware that Socrates (viz, Plato) believed and taught that the things not seen (ie., invisible) are more real than the things that are seen?
      -- Specifically, Socrates systematically refutes Euthyphro's suggestion that what makes right actions right is that the gods love (or approve of) them. First, there is the obvious problem that, since questions of right and wrong often generate interminable disputes, the gods are likely to disagree among themselves about moral matters no less often than we do, making some actions both right and wrong. Socrates lets Euthypro off the hook on this one by agreeing—only for purposes of continuing the discussion—that the gods may be supposed to agree perfectly with each other. (Notice that this problem arises only in a polytheistic culture.)
      http://www.philosophypages.com/hy/2d.htm

      Michaelangelo was a gay artist, (NOT a theologian), and Da Vinci was NOT a believer.
      http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1697/was-leonardo-da-vinci-religious

      July 14, 2011 at 1:31 pm |
  8. William Demuth

    Kat

    The church distributes wealth it has stolen, and only does so at the price of indoctrination.

    If you steal a blind mans loaf of bread, and offer to feed him one slice a day with the condition he listens to your propoganga, you are NOT a moral person.

    Religion defrauds the old, the feeble minded, the indoctrinated and the lost out of TRILLIONS of dollars a year. They then use these ill gotten gains to hol\d their victims, and our society hostage.

    I am sure you see it in the TV preachers you probably loathe, yet you can't see it in your own church.

    Besides if God is all powerfull, why is he always so short on cash?

    July 14, 2011 at 12:56 pm |
    • kat40915

      How do churches steal wealth? Most function on donations. given freely by church members.

      The rest of your statement is pure opinion. Theres nothing there for me to really reply to. If you want to elaborate, I'd be happy t try and reply

      July 14, 2011 at 12:58 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Kat

      The Church transfers wealth without taxation, which is immoral and unfair to the populace.

      They defraud people by selling a lie (You know the whole life after death promise they launch at all the cancer patients)

      It ALSO plundrers societies (Think Inca's, American Indians, Poland and similar) by interfering with or the destruction of exsisting cultures.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:05 pm |
    • Sean Russell

      Yes, given freely by church members because they believed that the church would help them and their families. Instead, their children were abused, and the church used their money to cover it up- move priests around and hire lawyers to defend their heinous behavior instead of owning up to it and doing the right thing.
      That is stealing. They have perpetrated a lie and enriched themselves doing it.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:08 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Plus Kat

      Donations given freely are not taxed, so the whole "freely" thing is a bit of a lie.

      You see what they give cost ME, because less taxes in means less government services or more taxes on those of us who don't believe.

      The Roman Catholic church owns hundreds of millions of dollars in property in New York, yet pay not a dime in taxes.

      So who do you think is covering their share?

      July 14, 2011 at 1:09 pm |
    • kat40915

      I understand your points and partly agree.

      I dont agree with the lie about an afterlife- I believe that. And I'm pretty sure you cannot prove that there isnt one. So we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

      I agree the Church has done immoral things to other cultures at times in history. Pope John paul apologized, and very sincerely, for much of that. Not that apology corrects it- but nothing can.

      And I suppose my response regarding the taxation issue is that- the donations that I give to my church, I HAVE already been personally taxed on. The church is non-profit and does not take in profit that does not go back into the church for the community, so I have no issue with churches not being taxed. I would say though- that if you disagree with that, the change would have to go through the government. So is it really the church's fault? No- the law is through the government, so the government is responsible for church's not being taxed, right?

      July 14, 2011 at 1:12 pm |
    • kat40915

      Sean- I certainly dont disagree with you there. While every American is guaranteed a fair trial (innocent until proven guilty) the Church should never, ever have covered up the abuses. However, if the church paid for their fair trial, then that would make sense though, right? If the Church didnt pay for the trials, then the taxpayers would.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:14 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Kat

      You seem reasonable right up to the bit about the Church being non profit.

      Have u ever seen the Vatican? Pleas don't make me laugh.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:16 pm |
    • kat40915

      William- I see your point about the property taxes. All I can say to that is, I dont agree with the teaching of the Jewish faith or Islam, but they dont have to pay property tax either. I dont agree with Planned Parenthood's actions, but my tax dollars support them. Our recourse is to express our opinions to our elected officials

      July 14, 2011 at 1:18 pm |
    • kat40915

      Yes, I've seen the Vatican. I've been in it. Its truly amazing, architecturally. I understand your point there too. My question would be- how do you sell "priceless" art to someone else?

      July 14, 2011 at 1:20 pm |
    • JW

      I believe that there are several atheist organizations that are considered non-profit as well.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:43 pm |
    • Artist

      kat40915

      Yes, I've seen the Vatican. I've been in it. Its truly amazing, architecturally. I understand your point there too. My question would be- how do you sell "priceless" art to someone else?
      ---–
      It is called an auction *wink*

      July 14, 2011 at 1:45 pm |
  9. evangelist

    CNN should be talking about the Jewish monster who just killed and dismembered an eight-year-old boy in NYC.

    July 14, 2011 at 12:51 pm |
    • kat40915

      Monsters come from all backgrounds.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:55 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Christ just killed a kid in New York? WOW!

      July 14, 2011 at 12:57 pm |
    • yeah

      At least there is only one jewish monster...at least that monster is not a hypocrite, he is not a priest in a temple. up yours.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:00 pm |
    • Stevie7

      That was on CNN's main page. Where have you been?

      July 14, 2011 at 1:03 pm |
  10. thes33k3r

    The Catholic Church is possibly the most immoral and corrupt organization on the planet. Benedict is guilty. It is a g.d. shame that this can continue to go on. They have completely subverted the rule of law and use their b.s. religious influence to laughably handle these crimes against humanity under so-called Canon law (which is not law at all). Stop giving your hard-earned money to these monsters.

    Please consider reading 'The Case of the Pope' by Robertson.

    July 14, 2011 at 12:43 pm |
    • kat40915

      Thats really not a fair statement at all. Yes, the Church has certainly dropped the ball here. Abuse of a child is absolutely unacceptable. But the Catholic Church does amazing good throughout the world- its charities have helped millions of people.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:47 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Kat

      Donations are being used by the millions to silence the victims

      Furthermore, I do not accept your conjecture about doing good. In fact I feel they are evil incarnate and need to be disbanded by force if need be.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:49 pm |
    • kat40915

      And youre welcome to your opinion. Do you include MOther Teresa in your judgement?

      July 14, 2011 at 12:51 pm |
    • thes33k3r

      @kat40915
      It IS a fair statement. So what if the Church does some good works in the world. What you are advocating is a moral equivalence. People can do good works and provide charity without supporting a virtual army of child abusers.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:08 pm |
    • thes33k3r

      @kat40915

      You are in denial about the extent of this heinous situation. We know that priests have been abusing children for many decades (centuries, more likely). The Catholic Church has done everything within its power to cover up the scandal, to relocate abusive priests, to attempt to distract people from this by blaming secularism or ho-no-se-suality.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:13 pm |
    • Artist

      thes33k3r

      @kat40915
      It IS a fair statement. So what if the Church does some good works in the world. What you are advocating is a moral equivalence. People can do good works and provide charity without supporting a virtual army of child abusers.
      ----
      One small correction...lets call it for what it is. Child rap ists and the church up to the vatican did it darndest to protect the rap ists.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:14 pm |
    • thes33k3r

      @kat40915
      We know that tens of thousands and possibly over 100,000 children have been se- sually abused by catholic priests in the last several decades. This is not speculation...these are facts.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:18 pm |
    • Artist

      Appears Kat supports child rap ists because some hungry are fed. I guess that makes it okay.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:22 pm |
    • thes33k3r

      @kat40915
      And again, with regard to your comment about charity, are you referring to the anti contra cepshon stance that the Church propagates in sub-Saharan Africa?

      July 14, 2011 at 1:23 pm |
    • kat40915

      Artist- you seem to be here to pick fights and throw about unfair accusastions about someone you dont know. I dont have anything to say to you as there will be reason to discuss this

      July 14, 2011 at 1:24 pm |
    • kat40915

      thes33k3r- I am in no way advocating child abuse. Absolutely not. The men that abused children should not be protected and shoul,d receive a fair trial and if convicted, be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. That said, there are millions of good people who are Catholics. They lives as best they can and hurt no one.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:26 pm |
    • kat40915

      Youre right that some officials in the church tried to cover up the abuses. That was wrong. But the actions of a few do not represent the beliefs of all. Those men who did the crimes were heinously wrong. The people who covered it up have guilt on their hands as well. All should be prosecuted according to the law for their crimes.

      One note- we do not know how many children have been abused. I'm sure some are telling the truth. I'm sure there are others out there for a payday who had nothing happen to them. I know there are priests who are being accused of these terrible things that they never committed. I know one personally who has been accused, yet he has never harmed a child. THAT is not ok either

      July 14, 2011 at 1:29 pm |
    • kat40915

      One note- we do not know how many children have been abused. I'm sure some are telling the truth. I'm sure there are others out there for a payday who had nothing happen to them. I know there are priests who are being accused of these terrible things that they never committed. I know one personally who has been accused, yet he has never harmed a child. THAT is not ok either

      July 14, 2011 at 1:30 pm |
    • thes33k3r

      @kat40915
      And yes I DO include Mother Teresa in my judgement. She was a wretched human being who needed the poor to remain poor and the sick to remain sick so she could further her own religious cause.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:32 pm |
    • kat40915

      Wow. If thats what you believe about Mother Teresa then there is nothing at all for us to discuss. Clearly you have made your opinion and are not interested in considering any other points of view

      July 14, 2011 at 1:34 pm |
    • Artist

      kat40915

      Youre right that some officials in the church tried to cover up the abuses.
      -----
      I am not picking a fight, rather you reduce the severity of what has and is happening. Example....."some officials" as if it is isolated and small. It goes back to the vatican and the church and its leadership worked to cover up and protect the ra pi s ts. You shrug this off as "some" and minor. Minds like yours is the how this has gone on for so long.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:35 pm |
    • thes33k3r

      @kat40915
      She refused to return millions of dollars that were given to her thru a fraudulent huckster.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:36 pm |
    • kat40915

      Artist- I am not shrugging off anything. This is a very serious issue that was handle VERY poorly to the detriment of many people. I have said several times here that in no way do I condone what some priests (and I DO say some – because there are many good priests out there who dont deserve to be lumped in with monsters) have done, and I do not condone how the situation was handled and covered up by the church officials

      July 14, 2011 at 1:38 pm |
    • Artist

      kat40915

      Artist- I am not shrugging off anything. This is a very serious issue that was handle VERY poorly to the detriment of many people. I have said several times here that in no way do I condone what some priests (and I DO say some – because there are many good priests out there who dont deserve to be lumped in with monsters) have done, and I do not condone how the situation was handled and covered up by the church officials
      ----
      Fair enough I accept your answer. It just seemed from your words it was minor.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:39 pm |
    • thes33k3r

      @kat40915
      There is much more. Read The M is si on ar y P os it ion by Hit chens if you want to learn more than what you were spoo n fed by the ador ing media about Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:41 pm |
    • kat40915

      Artist- I apologize if I my words seems as if I took the situation lightly. It was not my intention. In the future, would you please do me the favor of asking for clarification before making accusations that I support child rapists? Thank you

      July 14, 2011 at 1:41 pm |
    • kat40915

      thes- I'll look into it. Havent read it.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:44 pm |
    • thes33k3r

      kat40915

      Wow. If thats what you believe about Mother Teresa then there is nothing at all for us to discuss. Clearly you have made your opinion and are not interested in considering any other points of view
      -----------------------
      Don't even try to play that card. I'm as open minded a person as you could ever meet. The problem is that religious belief is so powerful and irrational that most Catholics (most people, even if not Catholic) could never even consider the possibility that there could be another side to the story of mother teresa .....thus your position. Give the book a whirl and see for yourself.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:44 pm |
    • kat40915

      thes- sorry if I offended. I guess your openmindedness doesnt come through your comments very well

      July 14, 2011 at 1:46 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      @ Kat40915,
      Yes, Mother Theresa IS included in this list... she was a proven hypocrite. Trying to impose a ban on divorce in Northern Ireland while in the same breath hoping Princess Diana would be happier if she could escape her marriage to Prince Charles. (1996)

      July 14, 2011 at 2:42 pm |
    • Atheist b/c Truth is Better Than Fiction

      Kat said "But the Catholic Church does amazing good throughout the world- its charities have helped millions of people."

      As much as all religious organizations do good, they do so with cost to the person...it's like dangling a sandwich in front of a hungry man's face...of course you're going to fall for the fallacies if you want that sandwich. There are just as many secular agencies that do charitable work (Doctor's Without Border's is one of them).

      You do not require religion to state the obvious...respect for one another should be easy. There should never be a 'cost' attached to being on the receiving end of help.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:49 pm |
    • Lycidas

      Oh plz...the Church does not do that. The Chruch will help whether or not you believe in the faith. To say otherwise without evidence is foolish.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:55 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      @ Lycidas,
      -The Chruch will help whether or not you believe in the faith. To say otherwise without evidence is foolish

      Aren't you guys the ones who toute a promised afterlife without evidence? Who is the greater fool?

      July 14, 2011 at 4:50 pm |
  11. Smith

    It is sad that Evil can be present every given place, even in the Catholic Churches as it happened even in Jesus time as Judas give up Jesus. The media has no exceptions as they are manipulating the citizens by their own interest and believe, too. Most times it‘s seems it happens only with the Catholic Churches all the bad things as the media publicize it, but most people don’t know that it is not true because sadly it is exist at the Evangelical, Jewish or even at the Orthodox churches the same sin. In fact about certain news is not publicized to the public if it is not put only in one line. – Or what about the very recent news about the – body parts of missing Brooklyn boy found in refrigerator – But in fact it has the main national silence of it.

    In theory, even if the Catholic Churches didn’t commit this type of crimes them, us still the bad people for the unmoral liberal world. What we are able to do is just pray and watch out to clear our churches from the sin.
    Nobody even care us we cleared out our public schools from the crosses, prayers and so on, but we have the garbage all over around us from the TV’s, entertainments, etc.
    God bless you all.

    July 14, 2011 at 12:42 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Jew, Gentile, Muslim or Hindu.

      Bugger a child and you need to hang by your neck until you are DEAD, and then your corpse needs to be desecrated.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:45 pm |
    • Sean Russell

      Second person on this story to comment on a different story. Nothing like trying to change the subject when you know you're wrong.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:10 pm |
    • Artist

      "What we are able to do is just pray and watch out to clear our churches from the sin."
      ------
      Well there you have it folks...that is the answer to all things. Pray in one hand and cra p in the other...well you know how it goes

      July 14, 2011 at 1:48 pm |
  12. Barry

    William Demuth,

    How do you think God enacts his judgment, if not through humans, who were created in his image and in his likeness?

    One of the points the Scripture and history make is that evil won't stand. If humans won't address the problem of evil, God will; and, the results will be horrifying.

    July 14, 2011 at 12:40 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Waiting for God to deliver justice is how evil goes unpunished.

      We need to execute them in this world, and then your imaginary sky freind can have a crack at them in your imaginary afterlife.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:43 pm |
    • Artist

      Barry

      William Demuth,

      How do you think God enacts his judgment, if not through humans, who were created in his image and in his likeness?

      One of the points the Scripture and history make is that evil won't stand. If humans won't address the problem of evil, God will; and, the results will be horrifying.
      ------–
      Ah the magic wizard in the sky will take care of things. Actually the wizard in the sky is pretty pathetic and the worst landlord of all time.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:43 pm |
    • GodPot

      "How do you think God enacts his judgment, if not through humans, who were created in his image and in his likeness?" So sayeth we and our book that say's we are the rightful heirs to the planet besides the fact that you were born here to and have as much right to it as we do if we didn't have our old book telling us were better than you and you don't deserve it because you don't jump through our God's hoops and live the way we want you to, nanny nanny boo boo.

      Quite the excuse you give yourself for infilicting violence on anyone YOU choose. And the fact you believe that your God is so weak that imperfect, jealous, greedy, perverted lying pastors and priests must enact the supposed builder of the universes judgement is plain laughable.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:37 pm |
    • Scott

      Oh yes, god is raining down his punishment on televangelists. (Mostly in 10s and 20s)

      July 15, 2011 at 10:48 pm |
  13. marcia

    the Catholic Church is a farce and always has been. It's definitely NOT what Jesus would do!!!

    July 14, 2011 at 12:39 pm |
    • kat40915

      The things that some people in the Church have done are completely unacceptable, yes. And they should be stopped and prosecuted immediately. However, many people in the Catholic Church have done amazing amounts of good in the world. Can you really say Mother Teresa, and the people like her are a farce?

      July 14, 2011 at 12:49 pm |
    • Artist

      kat40915

      Can you really say Mother Teresa, and the people like her are a farce? No but she could have picked a better employer.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:51 pm |
    • kat40915

      We see what we want to see. If all you want to see are the faults of the people in the church, then thats all you will see. People are not God. We make mistakes and all churches, at one time or another, have used God's name to accomplish human-desired goals. I dont condone that. But I also do not believe that makes a Church a horrible organization

      July 14, 2011 at 12:54 pm |
    • Scott

      kat40915: Do you have any idea of how much $$$ Mother Teresa brought in and how little of it was spent on her patients?

      July 15, 2011 at 10:52 pm |
  14. William Demuth

    Ladies and Gentlemen

    Let us cut to the chase. Is there ANYONE who condones what the church has done with this scandal?

    Does ANYONE not believe the perpetrators should hang and their coconspirators should be expunged from the church?

    Is ANYONE willing to claim that the habitual abuse of children has existed in the Church for decades and possibly centuries and need to stop right this very instant?

    Does anyone believe this scandal is behind us and do you feel confident in claiming no further children shall EVER be violated, nor any deviant sheltered by this church?

    July 14, 2011 at 12:38 pm |
    • Artist

      When I hear of a catholic church closing or a huge settlement payout, I get all warm and fuzzy inside. The catholic church was and is still rotten from the inside. It is a pathetic and sick joke played out daily.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:41 pm |
  15. Gingeet

    I love this. Not only do they promote the existence of a supernatural being as a fact and have no evidence for it, but they claim to know the will of this mysterious being as well.
    People come on... this whole god thing is getting a little old!

    July 14, 2011 at 12:28 pm |
    • kat40915

      The vast majority of the world believes in a higher being. I'd say youre the minority on this one. That said, youre welcome to your oinion

      July 14, 2011 at 12:50 pm |
    • Sean Russell

      They all believe in different supernatural beings- each of which says it alone is the true faith. If they all say that; yet they can't all be the one true faith; which one is right?
      You lumped yourself into the same group that worships Kali, Satan (a supernatural being remember), Thor, and Osiris. Good luck with that.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:14 pm |
    • Richard Dawkins

      @kat40915,

      People also used to believe in gods of war, love, fire, fertility, etc.. but slowly, human intelligence is catching and surpassing these bull shit fairy tale beliefs. Did you know the story of Jesus is an old recycled Egyptian legend of the man-god Horus ? 12 disciples, virgin birth, died and rose, yada yada yada

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IibiiEJAoK8

      July 14, 2011 at 1:50 pm |
    • Gingeet

      So Kat, what you're saying is that we get to vote on what reality is now? So, if the majority of people think the world is flat then it is so despite the evidence? Maybe the majority is just a bunch of fools?

      You might want to brush up on your critical thinking skills before you make absurd comments or fall victim to irrational belief systems.

      Good luck with that.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:22 pm |
  16. DaveX

    Love it! Bottom line – treat mental illness (relegion) and stop pretending we need to respect these people. Get them the help they deserve!

    July 14, 2011 at 12:01 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Deprograming!

      Save the young, the old are already lost.

      Treat the sickness for what it is. We decry the other types like racisim, ethnocentrisim and bigotry, why not religion?

      July 14, 2011 at 12:06 pm |
    • well

      That's right. Abuse should only be condoned in state funded schools, performed by certified teachers (who abuse children at a higher rate than priests. Not my opinion-fact)

      July 14, 2011 at 12:26 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Well

      Produce your facts, because I suspect you are a liar.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:31 pm |
  17. LouAz

    For over 2000 years the silence of all "catholics" was and still IS their CONSENT. To this minute there has not been one priest, bishop, arch bishop, cardinal, or poop that has picked up a phone and called the local Police Station and said, "I think we have a priest that may be molesting a child". Not one ! To this minute ! Silence is consent !

    July 14, 2011 at 11:58 am |
    • William Demuth

      It is more than consent it is complicity, which is a crime.

      The church violates RICO statutes every day, and needs to be prosecuted as a criminal enterprise.

      We did it to the mob, and they didn't bugger little boys.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:02 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      The difference is, that these INDIVIDUALS knew and ignored what was going on [for that I despise them] but ALL Catholics did NOT know. This is typical of the generalisations that make me sick. And this is not the first case we know of, where police have failed to act, and they DID know it was happening. So, by your own reasoning all POLICE are abusers too. That's like saying ALL A mericans are wasteful, dishonest thieves because the government is ineffectual. Grow up.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:08 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Voice

      Not all Germans knew of the slaughter of the Jews, but we still bombed the hell out tf their country.

      If you are in a gang, and the gang kills, do you doubt society will try to disband the gang?

      July 14, 2011 at 12:11 pm |
    • Stevie7

      If I belong to an organization and that organization engages in repeated criminal acts, systematically covers up those acts, and fails to enact any meaningful measures to stop those abuses I would disassociate myself from that organization. I CERTAINLY wouldn't give them any money.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:14 pm |
  18. ChiRomagnon

    The Catholic Church has committed more genocide than the Nazis. Do you expect them to care about child abuse?

    July 14, 2011 at 11:48 am |
    • William Demuth

      Um, I hate to point this out, but the Catholic Church was ALLIED with the Nazi's, and Hitler himself was a Christian.

      Many people try to hide that historic fact.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:51 am |
    • Dan

      William...another pathetic attempt to make Hitler a Christian. Whle Hitler was raised in a nominally Catholic home, he rejected Christianity altogether. He followed Nietzsche's belief that it destroyed the warrior spirit of the German people.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:02 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Dan

      The souls of eight million dead Jews call you a liar.

      In his own words Hitler spells it out.

      "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

      -Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

      July 14, 2011 at 12:04 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Dan
      Sorry, Dan but Hitler was indeed a Catholic.

      "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."
      – Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941
      "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. ...Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross."
      – Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922
      "The fact that the Curia is now making its peace with Fascism shows that the Vatican trusts the new political realities far more than did the former liberal democracy with which it could not come to terms. ...The fact that the Catholic Church has come to an agreement with Fascist Italy ...proves beyond doubt that the Fascist world of ideas is closer to Christianity than those of Jewish liberalism or even atheistic Marxism..."
      – Adolf Hitler in an article in the Völkischer Beobachter, February 29, 1929, on the new Lateran Treaty between Mussolini's fascist government and the Vatican
      "We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out".
      The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, Oxford University Press, 1942

      July 14, 2011 at 12:06 pm |
    • William Demuth

      I beat Doc by a pico second at best!

      July 14, 2011 at 12:08 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      Sheepdip. Learn history.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:10 pm |
    • Stevie7

      @Dan,

      Here are actual quotes from the man himself:

      "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator"

      "The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity"

      "My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter."

      "adherents of both Confessions can live peacefully together side by side in order that they may take their stand in the common fight against the power which is the mortal foe of any true Christianity."

      Doesn't sound like Nietzsche to me.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:11 pm |
    • Artist

      Cut Hitler and the Catholic Church some slack...they were only doing god's work.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:15 pm |
    • Dan

      William: Hitler was not above using other people's religion as propaganda for his own purposes. He also had posters of himself placed around the country with the words "Am Anfang war das Wort..." (I the beginning was the word from John 1:1), in order to cast HIMSELF as teh Messiah. Someone who believes in Chist would never do suh a thing. Christianity was useful to him - nothing more.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:17 pm |
    • well

      Gosh, Hitler lie about his beliefs?? I just can't imagine such a thing.

      Night of 11th-12th July, 1941

      "National Socialism and religion cannot exist together....
      "The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity....
      "Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things."

      July 14, 2011 at 12:24 pm |
    • Artist

      Dan

      William: Hitler was not above using other people's religion as propaganda for his own purposes. He also had posters of himself placed around the country with the words "Am Anfang war das Wort..." (I the beginning was the word from John 1:1), in order to cast HIMSELF as teh Messiah. Someone who believes in Chist would never do suh a thing. Christianity was useful to him – nothing more.
      ----------
      While your opinion is noted, he said what he said. He was a christian and he sinned what can we say. He was one of "you" whether you wish to accept or not.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:25 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Dan

      Finally some truth. Your answer BOLSTERS my core position.

      Believe what you like in your heart, but when your beliefs mess with my democracy, you are my enemy.

      If you keep Christ in your heart fine, but if you try and shove him down my throat, I will do my damndest to kill you and those who support you.

      You seee I have seen this before and I will NOT be fooled again.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:26 pm |
    • well

      Artist, I am guessing that since Stalin was a Christian at one point, even though his actively atheist movement killed more people than Hitler could dream of, you don't let him in the atheist club either?? What about Mao? His atheist movement is a close runner up behind Hitler and Stalin. Tell me. Was he also a closet Christian? Pol Pot??? Please.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:29 pm |
    • well

      19th October, 1941, night

      "The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."

      July 14, 2011 at 12:33 pm |
    • well

      13th December, 1941, midnight

      "Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... ....
      "When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease."

      July 14, 2011 at 12:34 pm |
    • well

      27th February, 1942, midday

      "It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors– but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie."
      "Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ."

      July 14, 2011 at 12:35 pm |
    • well

      Preceeding quotes from the great "Christian" Adolf Hitler. Not quite what I expect from a good Christian, but if he said he was Catholic early on, I believe him.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:38 pm |
    • marcia

      AMEN!!!

      July 14, 2011 at 12:41 pm |
    • Sean Russell

      @Well
      Stalin, Mao, et al- not atheists. They claimed to run atheist states; however they merely moved the worship of god to the worship of themselves and the state. They deified their leaders and forced the people to worship them. That is not atheism. That is just trading one god for another.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:19 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      @ Well,

      I'm not going to take the bible's word for creation, why would I take yours? Site your source of these wonderfull quotes... Doc and William did... why don't you?

      July 14, 2011 at 1:55 pm |
  19. What Jesus said

    Catholic church priests....meet "Rock tied to Neck" and "Into the deep Sea"

    July 14, 2011 at 11:46 am |
    • Voice of Reason

      Jesus said: If anyone harms a child, it would be better if he had a millstone tied round his neck and be thrown into the millpond. Misquoting shows desperation to prove a point , and ignorance

      July 14, 2011 at 12:15 pm |
  20. bob

    atheism is a disease and is destroying america.

    July 14, 2011 at 11:45 am |
    • think for yourself

      Since when is thinking for yourself and not believing myths a disease?

      By the way, your "god" wants to burn 4.8 billion non-christians for all eternity for not having blind faith in "him". Puts any disease to shame.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:49 am |
    • William Demuth

      Bob

      Please spell your name correctly; its currently spelling clearly underscores your ignorant indoctrination.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:50 am |
    • bob

      @William, wow never seen someone get so mad about spelling. If little things like that bug you I feel sorry for you.
      @think for yourself, No one knows who's going to hell thats up for God to decide.

      July 14, 2011 at 11:54 am |
    • FatSean

      The Christian god was the original Hitler. He ordered the Hebrews to commit genocide on the Canaanites and the people of Ai and take their land!

      July 14, 2011 at 11:57 am |
    • William Demuth

      Bob

      I get worried about the disease called illiteracy.

      If you can’t present rational thoughts in a structured way, do you REALLY think you are fit to stand in judgment of those who can?

      July 14, 2011 at 12:00 pm |
    • sigh

      Yeah, that must be it. That goldurned atheism. Because all the people who have done such a lousy job at being in charge of things for the entire time the USA has been in existence are/were athei... oh, no, wait, they're almost all Christians. Never mind.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:04 pm |
    • Dan

      "think for yourself"...Since when does being an atheist mean that you think for yourself? After reading the comments of atheists on this blog and others for several years, it is woefully apparent that one or two of you came up with things like the Flying Spaghetti monster aand the rest of you just reapeat the atheist line. LOL...It makes me laugh every time, that you all accuse the religious of the very thing you do!

      July 14, 2011 at 12:06 pm |
    • bananaspy

      Not sure how you were led to the conclusion that atheism is destroying America after reading an article about the church covering up abuse. But I don't expect coherence from a man who believes in imaginary beings.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:08 pm |
    • Dan

      William Demuth

      "Bob

      Please spell your name correctly; its currently spelling clearly underscores your ignorant indoctrination."

      LOL...Don't you mean "current" spelling, Billy? LOL....Be careful when you correct someone, BIlly Boy. You just may be humbled.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:10 pm |
    • yaahright

      @William

      Look at your first response to Bob and then heed your own advice – "its currently spelling"???????

      July 14, 2011 at 12:13 pm |
    • bob

      @William, so quick to assume things. Its kind of ironic coming from an atheist. You see I just assumed the median we were using wasn't on a professional level, you know because its a blog.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:18 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @think for youself – God is not prepard SEND anyone to Hell unless they choose to go. Each one of us can choose to live decent lives; and if we can't – we have a chance to accept the forgiveness of God if we are truly sorry. Look up the Divine Mercy website. He wants ALL people everywhere to share Heaven with Him. There is love enough for all. There are only 2 unforgiveable sins in the Catholic church: Despair – when we die unable to accept God's love and forgiveness and Presumption – when we assume that we will go to Heaven without having taken any responsibility for our own sins /actions.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:26 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Gentlemen

      My position was in Bob not capitalizing his name. To me it seems, well, self deprecating, and he does himself a disservice. I actually enjoy his posts, but the whole small “b” thing comes off somewhat creepy, like speaking about one’s self in the third person.

      July 14, 2011 at 12:30 pm |
    • John

      Bob, I believe in God. However; I totally disagree with you. "Christians" are more often worse in their behavoir then non believers. Many of them have done their share in destroying America. It is selfishness, hatred and greed that is destroying American from people of all backgrounds.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:16 pm |
    • Stevie7

      Meant to post this here:

      "God is not prepard SEND anyone to Hell unless they choose to go."
      -–
      Of course, naturally no one would choose to go to hell, but anyway. Why would a loving god who wants to share heaven with everyone give us no concrete evidence of his existence, a book of inconsistencies that contains ambiguous rules that we must follow to get into heaven, give us about 70 some years to get things right, and then sit idly by while we are tortured for all of eternity if we don't meet his qualifications. Something here doesn't add up.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:20 pm |
    • John

      Stevie7, The book is less consistent then what you may think or how it is presented. "Chrtistians" are ignorant of the text they stole from the Jews. You should read the annals of the Assyrian king Sennacherib who is notable for describing his siege of Jerusalem in 701 BC during the reign of king Hezekiah. Having said that. "Christianity" is ignorant of what it has and teaches lies.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:24 pm |
    • Stevie7

      @John,
      The further down the rabbit hole I go, the crazier it becomes.

      July 14, 2011 at 5:10 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.