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July 14th, 2011
05:11 AM ET

Irish report damns Catholic Church abuse response

By Richard Allen Greene, CNN

The Catholic Church in Ireland did not take serious steps to stamp out child abuse by priests even after the scandal blew up worldwide and the Irish bishops put rules in place to stop it, a new report says.

The report demolishes claims by the Catholic Church there that policies it put in place in 1996 have enabled it to get a handle on the problem.

The Church's explanation that it was on a "learning curve" in handling allegations of abuse "could not have had any basis or relevance in Cloyne," said the report, which focuses on the diocese of Cloyne around Cork in southern Ireland.

Ireland's top churchman, Cardinal Sean Brady, called the report "another dark day in the history of the response of Church leaders to the cry of children abused by Church personnel."

Ireland's Foreign Ministry summoned the Vatican representative in the country, Archbishop Giuseppe Leanza, for talks with Foreign Minister Eamon Gilmore on Thursday following the publication of the report.

The report accuses Bishop John Magee, who was responsible for policing abuse in his diocese, of not backing the policy himself and failing to take action against abusers.

"Magee took little or no active interest" in child sex abuse cases for 12 years after the new policy was put in place, the report says, and Monsignor Denis O'Callaghan, who ended up in de facto charge of policing abuse "did not approve of the requirement to report to the civil authorities," the comprehensive report says.

Allegations of abuse within the diocese of Cloyne were so worrying that the Church appointed a special administrator to oversee it.

That archbishop, Dermot Clifford, said he accepted the findings of the report and "humbly apologized" to victims and their families.

And he expressed horror that the church did not act on its anti-abuse policies.

"It appalls me that, up to 2008, 13 years after these procedures were put in place, they were still not being implemented in the Diocese of Cloyne" Clifford said in a statement.

Clifford said Magee and O'Callaghan "accepted full responsibility and apologized for their failures."

Pope Benedict XVI accepted Magee's resignation as bishop of Cloyne in March 2010.

The report also details allegations against Magee himself.

A man referred to by the pseudonym "Joseph" reports that Magee held him in "protracted" embraces, asked him if it "felt good," kissed him on the forehead, told him that he loved him, and said he had dreamed about him.

"Joseph" considered the attention paternal at the time, he told the report's authors, but later reconsidered in light of reports into abuse and raised the issue with another priest.

"I began to think that maybe it wasn't as innocent as I originally thought or assumed it was," he says. He says the events occurred when he was 17 and 18 years old.

The priest to whom Joseph complained reported the matter to the church's own child protection authorities, who considered it "inappropriate" but ruled it did not constitute abuse.

They did not report it to the police but did tell Magee about the accusation and reported it to church officials as high as Cardinal Brady and the Vatican's representative in Ireland, the report says.

Joseph took the issue to the police, who also told him it did not constitute abuse, the report says.

The Vatican also failed to back Irish anti-abuse rules introduced in 1996, saying they were not official policy, according to the report, which was released Wednesday.

While it focuses on the diocese of Cloyne, it follows four earlier independent reports into abuse by Catholic priests and officials in Ireland going back decades.

The 421-page report, which is partially redacted, details complaints against 19 clerics in the diocese between 1996 and 2009.

CNN's Carol Jordan and Journalist Peter Taggart contributed to this report.

- Newsdesk editor, The CNN Wire

Filed under: Catholic Church • Ireland • Scandal • Sex abuse

soundoff (624 Responses)
  1. frank

    Kill them all.

    July 14, 2011 at 5:42 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Simple solutuion worthy of serious consideration.

      July 15, 2011 at 8:37 am |
  2. Reality

    The Irish RCC scandal adds more credence to the following:

    Recognizing the flaws, follies and frauds in the foundations of Islam, Judaism and Christianity by the "bowers", kneelers" and "pew peasants" will converge these religions into some simple rules of life. No koran, bible, clerics, nuns, monks, imams, evangelicals, ayatollahs, rabbis, professors of religion or priests needed or desired.

    Ditto for houses of "worthless worship" aka mosques, churches, basilicas, cathedrals, temples and synagogues.
    ==========================================================================================

    July 14, 2011 at 5:20 pm |
  3. mike

    hahahahahahahahahahah

    July 14, 2011 at 4:35 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Mike with a small "m" is unavailable for comment, it appears the stress of the day has taken its toll.

      He has been placed on the disabled bloggers list until further notice.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:54 pm |
  4. William Demuth

    Again I ask the basic question.

    Does anyone believe the priests in question should NOT be prosecuted and imprisoned?

    What about the higher ups? Should they be in jail for protecting them from prosecutuion?

    July 14, 2011 at 4:20 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      What about the higher ups? Should they be in jail for protecting them from prosecution?
      -- That's what the Philly case is about, (in part). It's about to happen.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:39 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Yup it looks so!

      And I hope they bugger him to death in his cell and then crucify him upside down on the bars.

      Might send a message to the vermin to leave poor kids alone.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:47 pm |
    • Reality

      Why did today's pope, prelates, preachers and rabbis, so focused on society's se-xual sins, lose sight of clerical se-xual sins?
      "
      FEAR, SHAME and GUILT and COVER IT ALL UP!!!

      Obviously ordination in any religion is not assurance of good behavior !!!!!

      Neither is coronation!!! e.g. Henry VIII, King David.

      Neither is marriage as 50% of those men convicted of pedophilia are married.

      Neither is being elected president of the USA!! e.g. Billy "I did not have se-x with that girl" Clinton, John "Marilyn Monroe" Kennedy"

      Neither is possessing super athletic skill!!! e.g. Tiger "I am so sorry for getting caught" Woods.

      Neither is being an atheist or pagan since pedophilia is present in all walks of life.

      If someone is guilty of a crime in this litany of "neithers" they should or should have been penalized as the law dictates to include jail terms for pedophiliacs (priests, rabbis, evangelicals, boy scout leaders, married men/women), divorce for adultery (Clinton, Kennedy, Woods), jail terms for obstruction of justice (Clinton, Cardinal Law, Bishop Magee) and the death penalty or life in prison for murder ("Kings David and Henry VIII).

      July 14, 2011 at 5:23 pm |
    • Squeeky

      Yes. And in my not so humble opinion, every person who donates money to the Catholic Church is a Collaborator.

      July 14, 2011 at 6:15 pm |
    • Colin

      Lycidas – you said "You are always welcome to express your opinions...you just can't call your opinions fact without evidence" I obviously agree. So, you are atheist or agnostic, right? Or does your religious belief get a free pass from this rule?

      July 15, 2011 at 4:26 am |
    • Lycidas

      @Colin- I think you hit the wrong reply button.

      But anyway..good question. Now if I had ever stated that I could prove my faith scientifically to you...then I would be required. But for those that are atheist on here that rely only on logic and science, it goes without saying that they should offer up facts with their opinions/theories...right?

      July 15, 2011 at 1:26 pm |
    • Artist

      Lycidas

      @Colin- I think you hit the wrong reply button.

      But anyway..good question. Now if I had ever stated that I could prove my faith scientifically to you...then I would be required. But for those that are atheist on here that rely only on logic and science, it goes without saying that they should offer up facts with their opinions/theories...right?

      ----------
      Atheists are equally interesting as religious being they claim to know for certain. What can an agnostic offer up? For starters, gods of past and present have not come forward. I find it hard to rely on what my fellow man has to say about the afterlife when dealing with gods. Perhaps gods cannot write and need man to write for them? Onto the other side, I see no reason to say with absolute that we were never created. I am open to the idea that perhaps the "gods" some seek are more mortal than immortal. In the end I do not stress over this question. If there is a magical god or mortal god, they are welcome to come down and present themselves.

      July 15, 2011 at 1:44 pm |
    • Lycidas

      I am sure when God feels the need or desire...he will.

      July 15, 2011 at 1:47 pm |
    • Artist

      Lycidas

      I am sure when God feels the need or desire...he will.

      ----------
      Until then no need to sweat it.

      July 15, 2011 at 1:53 pm |
    • Lycidas

      Perhaps.

      July 15, 2011 at 3:02 pm |
  5. Believe or else

    My savior has a god for a father, and was conceived by a human. My savior is so magnificent that he can raise the dead, was killed, and himself rose from the dead. I worship his rebirth every year in the spring. I honor him by a ceremonially consuming wine and bread.

    My savior, of course, is Dionysus.

    July 14, 2011 at 4:00 pm |
    • William Demuth

      My savior is the Pink Power Ranger, cause her colors go ALL the way through!

      July 14, 2011 at 4:05 pm |
    • Colin

      You had me foold. I was sure it was Apollonius of Tyana.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:05 pm |
    • Stevie7

      Are you sure that your savior isn't Osiris?

      July 14, 2011 at 4:17 pm |
    • artist

      The earliest discussions of mythological parallels between Dionysus and the figure of the Christ in Christian theology can be traced to Friedrich Hölderlin, whose identification of Dionysus with Christ is most explicit in Brod und Wein (1800–1801) and Der Einzige (1801–1803).[39] Modern scholars such as Martin Hengel, Barry Powell, and Peter Wick, among others, argue that Dionysian religion and Christianity have notable parallels.

      They point to the symbolism of wine and the importance it held in the mythology surrounding both Dionysus and Jesus Christ; though, Wick argues that the use of wine symbolism in the Gospel of John, including the story of the Marriage at Cana at which Jesus turns water into wine, was intended to show Jesus as superior to Dionysus. This has caused much argument over the origination of the Christian ceremony of bread and wine.

      Additionally, some scholars of comparative mythology argue that both Dionysus and Jesus represent the "dying-and-returning god" mythological archetype. Other elements, such as the celebration by a ritual meal of bread and wine, also have parallels. Powell, in particular, argues precursors to the Christian notion of transubstantiation can be found in Dionysian religion.
      ------
      Interesting read. Jesus never was an original story. Not just based on the above but other myths.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:18 pm |
    • Lycidas

      And yet..not one of you have factual information that shows any conncection between any of those you mention with Jesus. You are too busy patting yourselves and thinking your clever.

      And you are confusing Artist. If I am not mistaken, you was critical once about the Gosples and other Biblical books discussing events a mere 30-100 years after the events....yet you will put up some guys who was 1800 years after the events as if it's crideible.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:33 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Lycidas

      Back with the wierdest views yet.

      It must be a biatch to keep all your absurd dogma straight!

      July 14, 2011 at 4:39 pm |
    • Stevie7

      "factual information that shows any conncection between any of those you mention with Jesus."
      --
      Maybe that's because the others are fictional characters? But if you can't see the obvious glaring parallels, then perhaps you need to take off the blinders.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:47 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      @Lycidas
      Am disillusioned. It's "you're". 🙁
      BTW, is it not possible the ones in the 1800's had some actual textual and archeological evidence that the Bronze Agers didn't?

      July 14, 2011 at 5:02 pm |
    • Reality

      More references to reviews about the historic Jesus:

      10. 7. The Gnostic Jesus
      (Part One in a Two-Part Series on Ancient and Modern Gnosticism)
      by Douglas Groothuis: equip.org/free/DG040-1.htm
      11. The interpretation of the Bible in the Church, Pontifical Biblical Commission
      Presented on March 18, 1994
      ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCINTER.HTM#2
      12. The Jesus Database- newer site:
      wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php?t-itle=Jesus_Database
      13. Jesus Database with the example of Supper and Eucharist:
      faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb016.html
      14. Josephus on Jesus by Paul Maier:
      mtio.com/articles/bissar24.htm
      15. The Journal of Higher Criticism with links to articles on the Historical Jesus:
      mtio.com/articles/bissar24.htm
      16. The Greek New Testament: laparola.net/greco/
      17. Diseases in the Bible:
      etd.unisa.ac.za/ETD-db/theses/available/etd-08022006-125807/unrestricted/02dissertation.pdf
      18. Religion on Line (6000 articles on the history of religion, churches, theologies,
      theologians, ethics, etc.
      religion-online.org/
      19. The Jesus Seminarians and their search for NT authenticity:
      mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/seminar.html#Criteria
      20. The New Testament Gateway – Internet NT ntgateway.com/

      July 14, 2011 at 5:29 pm |
    • Artist

      Lycidas

      And yet..not one of you have factual information that shows any conncection between any of those you mention with Jesus. You are too busy patting yourselves and thinking your clever.

      And you are confusing Artist. If I am not mistaken, you was critical once about the Gosples and other Biblical books discussing events a mere 30-100 years after the events....yet you will put up some guys who was 1800 years after the events as if it's crideible.
      ----------
      Okay so you question someone's opinion, which is fine. I was just posting as food for thought. You did not address Dionysus... So do you deny that this particular myth pre-dated christ? If you do not then what are your thoughts on the similarities or do you deny these as well?

      July 14, 2011 at 5:55 pm |
    • Artist

      Stevie7

      "factual information that shows any conncection between any of those you mention with Jesus."
      -
      Maybe that's because the others are fictional characters? But if you can't see the obvious glaring parallels, then perhaps you need to take off the blinders.
      ---–
      That was my first thought unless of course they were ignored on purpose???

      July 14, 2011 at 7:06 pm |
    • Lycidas

      Ah..more of the same from the peanut gallery.
      One has to point out a minor spelling error..oh, he caught me. i guess his whole point of view is correct now...haha.

      Artist went with, "So do you deny that this particular myth pre-dated christ? If you do not then what are your thoughts on the similarities or do you deny these as well?"
      Of course I do not deny that the Dionysus story predates Christ...so? You still have yet to show they have any connection beyond you thinking that do. You are always welcome to express your opinions...you just can't call your opinions fact without evidence.

      Demuth decided to talk about some nonsense that doesn't even go with anything I said. I love it when the one that think they are clever just fall flat on their faces.

      In the end, none of you have shown any factual connections between Dionysus or any other deity of the olden days with Christ. Under your as.sumptions, Emperor Kimmei and Romulus Augustus must have been connected since they both were emperors and were worship as gods. But of course that is foolishness, just as trying to make a factual statement without facts.

      July 14, 2011 at 8:35 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @Stevie7- No doubt you must thing that the Auk and the penguin are related..they are so similar.

      July 14, 2011 at 8:37 pm |
    • Peanut in the Gallery

      Lycidas
      It's not a spelling error. It's one of four grammatical errors in your post. Obviously the discussion is of no importance.

      July 14, 2011 at 9:10 pm |
    • Stevie7

      "@Stevie7- No doubt you must thing that the Auk and the penguin are related..they are so similar."
      -
      Really? That's your "rebuttal"? You're comparing stories that were written by men to ... animals? Ok, so the auk and the penguin are both black and white and their both birds. In this case, you could certainly say that they share a common ancestor – that they both draw from the same origin. Of course, the only similarities are color and phylum, so its not like that's an apt analogy since the legends of dionysus and jesus share much more.

      July 15, 2011 at 7:44 am |
    • Lycidas

      "..legends of dionysus and jesus share much more."

      Not really they don't. Dionysus and Jesus didn't resemble one another physically. Heck, I've seen better theories that Apollo and Jesus resembled one another in archaeology.

      He carried around a thyrsos, drinking cup, leopard and fruiting vine. Jesus was known for carrying...just the clothes on his back and maybe a Prayer Shawl...he was Jewish after all.

      Dionysus had Satyrs and Mainades that worshipped him through the art of getting drunk and known for their violence that came from that direct worship. Jesus's followers..human and their form of worship was more along the line of prayer.

      Dionysus was born from the thigh of Zeus. Jesus came from a woman.

      Dionysus killed Pentheus because of not believing in him. Jesus basically shrugged it off.

      Dionysus turned the Tyrrhenian pirates into dolphins. Jesus made his followers the fishers of men.

      I'm sorry...but co.mparing Dionysus and Jesus in an error in logic. I suggest to you all that you actually study the mythology that is not given to you from a website that is trying to convince you that the writers of the NT took from the Dionysus story.

      July 15, 2011 at 1:40 pm |
    • Stevie7

      I don't ever recall suggesting that the two were one in the same. But the stories, nevertheless, share some rather amazing similarities. All you've really shown so far is that the authors of the NT didn't copy other mythologies precisely ... but no one ever suggested that they did.

      July 15, 2011 at 2:17 pm |
    • Lycidas

      So far no one has even been able to show any connection whatsoever between Jesus and any of the mythologies that have been cited. Being similiar (in what...no one has shown yet) isn't evidence that one took from another.

      July 15, 2011 at 3:04 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      @ Lycidas,

      The connection is... THEY ARE BOTH MYTHICAL CHARACTERS. No other literature speaks of a man named Jesus who lived at the time the Bible claims he lived and did the acts it claims he did. (don't try to say Josephus – Antiquity of the Jews either... that book is highly contested by religious scholars stating most references to Jesus being added 400 years after the original text was written)... etc. etc. etc.

      July 15, 2011 at 5:29 pm |
    • Lycidas

      @fimeilleur-

      1) The connection is... THEY ARE BOTH MYTHICAL CHARACTERS.

      ~No, that is your opinion. While Dionysus has been defined as a mythical character, Jesus has not been.

      2)No other literature speaks of a man named Jesus who lived at the time the Bible claims he lived and did the acts it claims he did. (don't try to say Josephus – Antiquity of the Jews either... that book is highly contested by religious scholars stating most references to Jesus being added 400 years after the original text was written)... etc. etc. etc."

      ~Just because it is contested does not mean one should throw it away. Also, there is no reason to deny that Jesus was a historical character. Sure you can deny the spirituality of the man, but there is no real good reason to deny there was a man named Jesus that the NT is based upon.
      Pliny the Younger wrote about Christians in Pontus less than 80 years after the death of Christ. Given the time it would take for an religious group to grow and expand beyond the region they began...the timeframe from Jesus (30-33CE) in Judea to the province of Pontus and to get noticed by the Govenor works.
      Tacitus wrote of Christians around 116CE in Rome. Again, the timeframe works. He even made note about Jesus himself.

      Suetonius wrote of Christians and mentions Christ. Parts of his writings seem to go with events mention in Acts.

      Mara Bar-Serapion wrote about Jesus sometime after 70CE. It worth noting that this person was neither jewish or christian.

      It makes perfect sense that no contemporaries of Jesus would have written about him. Good grief, what historians were their even in the conquerored Roman Province of Judea in 30-33CE?

      I think many modern readers have a media problem with history. They are so used to see up to the minute information and to much info on every little thing....that they expect history to be that way too.

      Also the archaeology goes with the events in the NT. Historical figures and groups such as Pilate and the Essenes fit the timeframe. It's amazing how ppl will comment on how ignorant Christians back in this timeframe was..but then try to accuse them of putting together historically accurate information.
      Look at the Dead Sea Scrolls as a co.mparisson of what the NT writings were like. Many ppl co.mpare Jesus and early Christians to those that put the DSS together. And the vast majority of the scrolls were before 100CE.

      So...no, there is much historical information that came about much earlier than 400 years.

      July 15, 2011 at 7:21 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      @ Lycidas, I will only comment on one part of your reply, because obviously you've provided me with much to look into.

      ~Just because it is contested does not mean one should throw it away.
      No, not the whole text by Josephus... just the references to Jesus.
      Now, EVEN if Jesus is a historical figure (lets give you the benefit of the doubt at this time) It would not be proof of the existence of God or a god. You'd have to show that the events attributed to him are not exaggerated or mis-represented in the bible. To better illustrate my point, I ask you what are supposedly the EXACT last words of Jesus as he died on the cross? ( I will accept the current english translation, as I, and I suppose you as well, don't speak Aramaic)

      a)My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?
      b)Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit. OR
      c)It is finished

      Remember, his words are supposedly as important as his actions so they were probably recorded and remembered just as accurately by his followers. He could ONLY have had one last sentence... so choose wisely...

      July 16, 2011 at 12:13 am |
    • Lycidas

      @fimeilleur- I wasn't trying to prove God exists because Jesus existed. I was only wanting to show that Jesus was a historcial figure.

      Have heard aramaic spoken overseas...beautiful language. Anyway, I don't know what the exact last words were. But then again, I am not a literalist so you might want to go down a different line of questioning.

      July 18, 2011 at 1:34 pm |
  6. William Demuth

    News Flash

    The Austrian Government has decided that followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster are allowed to wear pasta strainers on their head on their lisence photos, as long as it does not block their face!

    Another victory for religious diversity! Way to go PASTAFARIANS!

    July 14, 2011 at 3:54 pm |
    • gozer

      Pasta be upon you and yours, as they say...

      RAmen

      July 14, 2011 at 4:43 pm |
    • Scott

      Ramen

      July 15, 2011 at 10:06 pm |
  7. RightTurnClyde

    I am kind of glad I can post again. I was on ice for a month or so. Everything I said was bad. I was beginning to think Sister Margaret Mary was censor. (or maybe Mary Margaret - there's only 2 kinds of nuns). I was exectin' woner tother ta show up and whup my hyde .. but now ikin post agin.

    July 14, 2011 at 3:49 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Welcome back dude.

      I was worried you got whacked by a peace loving Jesus freak!

      July 14, 2011 at 4:03 pm |
    • William Demuth

      I guess your to young to remember Sister Mary Elephant?

      July 14, 2011 at 4:09 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      Second that. Welcome back. Was skeptical, but no longer. Am banned from politics, even tho ok here ??? Sr. MM seems to be VERY busy. 😈

      July 14, 2011 at 4:09 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      Billy
      I thumb tacked Sr. M. E's veil to my desk back in the day. It was NOT pretty. Fortunately for me my aunt was her "momma".
      (Does that make her my cousin?) Ahhhhhh.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:14 pm |
    • gozer

      William: I'm old enough to remember that Sister.

      "Claaaass, claaass...."
      "Young man, give me that knife!"
      and so on

      Thanks for the memory recall. And for some other great posts today.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:47 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Gozer

      Thanks, I can still hear "Claaaass, claaass....SHUT UP!!!

      July 14, 2011 at 4:48 pm |
    • SeanNJ

      What I Did on my Summer Vacation

      First, I woke up. Then I went downtown to look for a job. Then I hung out in front of the drugstore.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:52 pm |
  8. fimeilleur

    @ Shep, You really think one year is long enough to come forward? Hell, why even bother with a stute of limitations? If they don't come forward with the priest's lips around his shaft... It doesn't count. Yeah! That goes for women too. No more statute of limitations, if the cops don't walk in on the act... it never happened. (may as well throw in 5 male witnesses too...)

    Captain obvious says I am being sarcastic.

    July 14, 2011 at 3:46 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      Oooops, Scroll down for context

      July 14, 2011 at 3:52 pm |
    • William Demuth

      They could find Mary with her ankles behind her head and the disciples throwing her a train and they would still claim she was pure.

      They HAVE to lie or otherwise the whole thing collapses.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:00 pm |
  9. William Demuth

    Is Limbo anything like The Limbabda?

    July 14, 2011 at 2:54 pm |
    • RightTurnClyde

      Limbo's an invention actually. Suppose you wanted to make some muny and you could get others to give you muny if you could fix it so the slate is clean. (so maybe you could make $1k a month) wiping slates clean ... but one guy just slue another and yet another guy just swiped a yella_pad. Well you can tell em yule forgivem but its $5 for the yella_pad and a grand for the hit. Then they gotta figure what happens if I don't give it 2 ya? well you go to the big BBQ on the hit but you go to limbo on the yell_pad ... (well where'd ya get a limbo there padre? same place you got the yella_pad .. basic_ly) .. so its an invention .. no patent on it

      July 14, 2011 at 3:04 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      Limbo went off the radar years ago. Where were you?

      @ right turn Clyde – If you don't know the difference between non-existent Limbo and Purgatory, you'd best keepquiet and stop embarrassing yourself. You and William D remind me of Bert and Ernie on the Muppet show. A pair of miserable hate filled Buffoons. In the old testament,there was a tower called Babel filled with looneys like who ranted and whined all day. They made a hell of a lot of noise but in the end nobody listened. Get the message.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:52 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Voice of Reason

      Can it, and put down the altar boy you degenerate.

      You and your religion can both burn for eternity.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:57 pm |
    • JohnR

      "Down in Limbo" is a great song, however.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:26 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Its a passable dance whist drinking Red Stripe and smoking the ganja!

      July 14, 2011 at 4:34 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      @RtC
      Not to worry. You can go to eBay and git yerself a novena, with a "get out of jail free" card, (for a price).

      July 14, 2011 at 5:06 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      I know this is old and no one is probably reading this but it has to be said:

      @ Voice of Reason,
      Bert and Ernie are from Sesame Street, although they are muppets, they are not from the Muppet show, nor are they "hate filled". You may be confused with the hecklers . They too are not hate filled, but provided witty retorts for acts that they didn't think were entertaining.

      Next, do you know the story of the Tower of Babel? Please quote where the tower is "filled with loonies"

      July 15, 2011 at 2:43 pm |
  10. William Demuth

    It freaking me out, but I think I am learning to read Clyde!

    Censorship be damned, we can all speak Clyde!

    July 14, 2011 at 2:38 pm |
    • RightTurnClyde

      what's kuhl is you got a lotta var_eye_tees of ree_lig_us types. You got goody_two_shus .. no_shus .. red_hot_2_trot shus and mar_chin buu_oots (talk about foot fet_eesh) .. 'n they kin all reed it .. and find ways ta dew_it

      July 14, 2011 at 2:56 pm |
  11. Buddy R

    I'm not a Catholic but Catholics can hardly be blamed for gay men molesting alter boys. The Catholic church teaches all se_x outside marriage is sin, pedophilia is sin, and that gay se_X is sin.

    July 14, 2011 at 2:22 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Then why altar BOYS?

      Perhaps the Nuns had the girls in a thigh lock in gym class?

      They give boys butts as a fringe benifit.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:26 pm |
    • RightTurnClyde

      It actually goes further back than the (Roman) Catholics and was already a problem when John wrote Revelations. I was already a problem in he Pauline years .. which was before Nero.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:28 pm |
    • mark

      err they CAN be blamed for turning a blind eye on what the civil laws consider a sin..child molestation. just shows how hypocritical they are with what they preach and what they do. or do you not hold the organization responsible for anything it's employees do on the job and what they do with reports of infractions? if so then all corporations should desire to be an organized religion.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:37 pm |
    • mark

      another example: an oil company says (teaches) that protecting the environment and worker safety is a top priority, so you can't blame it if management has been shown to repeatedly ignore safety guidelines. i think you can and you should

      July 14, 2011 at 2:42 pm |
    • RightTurnClyde

      in case you have not been reading .. there have been a slew of Protestant preachers and administer gone down the tou_b for p*ckir problems .. ... churches are in big trouuble just like the fed_ral gubmint. Big probl_ms with lee_ders today .. every lev*l and every k*nd .. poor judmint n no sense of ree_spons_a_bility r ee_ven a_count_ee_billy_tee

      July 14, 2011 at 2:44 pm |
    • Colin

      If the Catholic Church wants to prop itself up as an authority on moral behavior, then they should act morally. If they are going to be hypocrites, then they should expect disdain from others.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:17 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      The Romans teach all sorts of things about se'x. First they were against se'x without procreation, now they are against procreation without se'x. Then they say the crux of a moral act is the 'intention" but say the rhythm method is ok.
      Their consistency is staggering.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:19 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      Thanks, Buddy. Nice to see positive comment.

      @William – are you still here belching hate and vitriol probably due to inadequate potty training as a child.

      @Right turn Clyde – THAT is the best comment I've seen from you. I take back some of the things I said to you before.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:56 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @Mark – As a Catholic I say you are right. Blame the management. But you DON'T blame the whole workforce do you?

      July 14, 2011 at 4:00 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Voice of Reason

      If the management claims to be of divine origin, I expect competence and responsible behavior.

      Anyone who buggers children, or facilitates it must die.

      One of the degenerates was killed in Boston two weeks ago, and I shall be making a pilgramage to deface his tombstone.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:08 pm |
    • Smith

      Not many normal people araound here, but thaks your comment! You did it.

      July 14, 2011 at 7:23 pm |
    • OnLooker

      Demuth, no one in the Catholic Church claims to be divine. They are all human.

      August 7, 2011 at 6:58 pm |
  12. RightTurnClyde

    This is almost comedy... The Catholic church is just fine with car bum_ings, bl_wing up British Army p*sts, urban gu_er-illas, TNT, C4 .. but here is where they draw the line .. coverin up those nasty ol priests ... you fellas get on back to cleaning them rifles now and .. make sure your kev_lar is in good order .. tune up the get away cars ..

    July 14, 2011 at 2:17 pm |
  13. john

    athiests s.uc.k why so angry little guy?

    July 14, 2011 at 2:16 pm |
    • Colin

      Why is it the default position of the Bible-cuddlers that atheists are "angry" or "full of hate"? I admit, we generally criticize theists' lack of intelligence, but at least we have data to go on.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:35 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      Why? Tell you what... Stop preventing stem cell research, Stop preventing Doctor assisted suicide for the terminally ill, Stop trying to criminalize abortions, STOP INTERFERING IN MY LIFE!!!! There. Until your god proves himself to me on this earth, then, and ONLY then, will I consider his opinions on these and similar matters.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:02 pm |
    • Colin

      I'm not even the Colin that wrote the previous comment, but I could have seen myself saying exactly what he said. I don't get why when we present critical analysis that counters their claims they call us 'angry' or 'hateful' or 'strident' or 'just as evangelical as the evangelicals we preach against'. It is ignorance piled upon ignorance and I wish the religious people who speak that way would get a clue and stop doing that.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:21 pm |
  14. GrasshopperY

    I'm a diehard liberal Democrat, but I'm also very very religious. I am really sick and tired of these Atheist fundamentalists attacking all people of religion and throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You idiots are responsible for giving the Muslim terrorists and Republican Christian fundamentalists the ammunition for attacking religious freedom in the world. It is inhumane to denounce another's faith when that faith doesn't affect you. All you sniveling college males with too much time on your hands who seek to destroy others' faiths while hiding behind the anonymity of a screen name have a lot of growing up to do.

    July 14, 2011 at 2:14 pm |
    • William Demuth

      But we WANT you guys to kill each other!

      It is part of Dr. Evils plan, to divide the children af Abraham and make them slaughter each other.

      Then we will hold your savior hostage for ONE MILLION DOLLARS.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:19 pm |
    • Colin

      I'm confused. Why did this article about molestation in the church set you on a tantrum about atheists? I don't see how the two are related. I actually find it funny that you criticize atheists for attacking religion, when the article didn't even have anything to do with atheists. You are the one doing the attacking.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:24 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Colin

      It is the truth they fear.

      Fear drives the whole cult. Fear of rejection, damnation, excommunication all run beneath the service, but the core lies in their pathetic unwillingness to accept their own mortality.

      ANYTHING that threatens their core fear is attacked.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:29 pm |
    • Colin

      (Other) Colin – he is referring to postings, many by me, attacking Catholicism and religion in general. Many theists consider their beliefs "cherished" ot otherwise off limits for criticism and debate. I do wonder why they come to this site, though, as it is all about debate of viewpoints.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:32 pm |
    • RightTurnClyde

      i am confused too .. how can you claim to be a liberal democrat and also very religious. That's kind of like saying Alexander the Great conquered Asia but was a lousy general (they are self contradictory). Go and watch Bishop Sh8en on Y** Toube .. commu*nism and so_shul_ee_sm (if you actually bee_leev that) is not compat-ee_bul wit bee_in ree-lig_us

      July 14, 2011 at 2:36 pm |
    • Artist

      William Demuth

      And for all the Plato heads.

      Plato was NOT Chrisitan, nor were his students.

      One interesting question comes to mind. If Christ is the ONLY means to salvation
      ----
      Well if you want to believe what another man tells you sure...live in fear.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:38 pm |
    • Normon

      If my speech destroys your faith, what kind of faith was it to begin with.
      However, if my speech encourages someone to question their faith and demand rational reasons for beliefs, beware to those who depend on faith alone.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:50 pm |
    • Normon

      What is a "Atheist fundamentalist"?

      Someone who believes in the absolute authority of the literal interpretation of the words, "I don't believe that."

      July 14, 2011 at 3:54 pm |
    • Scott

      There is no baby.

      July 15, 2011 at 10:19 pm |
  15. William Demuth

    And for all the Plato heads.

    Plato was NOT Chrisitan, nor were his students.

    One interesting question comes to mind. If Christ is the ONLY means to salvation, I guess Plato and the boys are now burning in HELL?

    I guess Moses is as well, and Abraham and all the old pervs from the original testament?

    July 14, 2011 at 2:05 pm |
    • Tom C

      I have a better question for you: Why would god send different prophets, at different times, to different peoples – each carrying a message that theirs is the right way, and all others must be converted?

      In each case, the message is slightly different, almost assuring that these different people would go to war. Each believes his is the right way, thanks to the prophets god sent.

      My theory: god is a monster who gets off watching us die in his name.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:14 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Tom C

      I see it as God told them all the same, but because it is a putz, he only selected autistic prophets

      Then all of history became some game of post office between mentallly impaired preachers.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:17 pm |
    • RightTurnClyde

      This post is kind of comic too ... if yer ay-thee-est what do you care what happened to Play-Dough? So far as you believe he's rotting in the ground .. you don't beleev in anything .. so he's just dae-id .. colder_n a stone. Mos-sez believed in (you-know-who) so he was OK .. now Abraham .. you he had a special deal with the Old Man .. and he had A-ticket to start with ... you just aren't readin that thing right

      July 14, 2011 at 2:24 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      No they were in Limbo, (a suburb of Purgatory). Then when the bill was settled they "transitioned" to a higher state, even though they are in a timeless environment. Oh wait ....

      July 14, 2011 at 2:42 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Bucky Ball

      ¡¡ əƃɹn əɥʇ ʇsısəɹ ˙˙˙ʎʞɔnq- əɹəɥʇ oƃ ʇ,uop 😀

      Peace...

      July 14, 2011 at 2:57 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      @Peace2all

      ˙əɹəɥ ʎpɐəɹlɐ ɯ,ı ˙əʇɐl ooʇ 😈

      July 14, 2011 at 3:26 pm |
    • News Flash

      Then Limbo went outta business, so they had to move anyway. 🙂

      July 14, 2011 at 3:30 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      Immediately after Jesus died, he descended to the dead who had followed God's way but didn't know Jesus, and took them to Heaven. They couldn/t go before because man had not been redeemed till Jesus died for our sins.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:43 pm |
    • SeanNJ

      @Voice of Reason: And that makes sense to you because...?

      July 14, 2011 at 3:47 pm |
  16. Mercker

    You should be ashamed of yourself if you belong to one of these sick socially acceptable cults. Stop giving religions power and grow up

    July 14, 2011 at 1:42 pm |
    • kat40915

      We're not all bad people. If your thinking is such, then you should also think that all teachers, police officers, child care workers, and parents are all child molesters too. Because some of them are

      July 14, 2011 at 2:05 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Kat

      Your too samrt to believe that.

      Men were forced into the priesthood to hide their deviance and you know it.

      If you guys would just let the gays be gay, you would have a significantly reduced number of priests, AND victims.

      Besides, if you read the Bible, it is QUITE probable that Christ was gay, so cut them some slack.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:13 pm |
    • MrHanson

      And also include Newton, Faraday, Charles Babbage, J.R.R. Tolkien, the Wright Bothers, the founding fathers, Martin Luther King, Max Planck, etc......

      July 14, 2011 at 2:20 pm |
    • Artist

      William Demuth

      Besides, if you read the Bible, it is QUITE probable that Christ was gay, so cut them some slack.
      ----------–
      He loved being surrounded by men.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:20 pm |
    • Voice of Reason

      @ Kat – you are right. Except you were too kind. It's not a "few" – It's A staggering NUMBER. And you forgot Army personnell, lawyers, judges, solicitors, care workers, doctors, nurses and WOMEN. Mother abuse too. I'm a Catholic and I worked with Social Services for 30 years protecting abused children, so I know. And it is minimal in the Catholic church compared to the rest of society [doesn't make abusive priests any less loathesome, but true,nevertheless.]
      William D we'll disregard your comment – on grounds of insanity. YOU know nothing. BUT something I did find in all those years – people who are overly filthy and hateful in their condemnation of abusers are quite often really hating themselves .Like hateful, filthy Gay bashers are closet gays. Normal people express their righteous disgust in a logical way.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:15 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Voice of Reason

      If given a chance I shall expres my disgust by castrating and crucify all those involved.

      As for working with children, I would not let your diseased mind near my labrador, much less my children.

      You minimize the SICKEST crime because you are in a cult, and the children harmed by it shall see your cult destroyed.

      July 14, 2011 at 4:32 pm |
  17. ART

    Give it a break!! a bunch of men in dresses diddling little boys and this is what you have to say Shep.I bet you'd be singing a different tune if it was you who was molested

    July 14, 2011 at 1:42 pm |
    • AvdBerg

      For a better understanding we invite you to visit our website http://www.gaychristian101.com.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:48 pm |
  18. Shep

    Give it a break. Most of those seeking "justice" are only after free money and those who can actually prove that they were molested should not be allowed monetary awards unless they brought charges within 1 year of them being molested.

    July 14, 2011 at 1:38 pm |
    • God

      So speaketh the molester.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:45 pm |
    • kat40915

      I'm sure some people are out for a payday- but its definitely true that some children were abused. It was absolutely unacceptable and those responsible for the crimes and those that covered them up should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law

      July 14, 2011 at 2:03 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Shep

      I hope they bugger your son, then we shall see you change your tune.

      Definding men who exploit children. Such a Christian trait they should make you Pope.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:06 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      @Shep, You really think one year is long enough to come forward? Hell, why even bother with a stute of limitations? If they don't come forward with the priest's lips around his shaft... It doesn't count. Yeah! That goes for women too. No more statute of limitations, if the cops don't walk in on the act... it never happened. (may as well throw in 5 male witnesses too...)

      Captain obvious says I am being sarcastic.

      July 14, 2011 at 3:49 pm |
  19. George

    How the Bible Led Me to Islam: The Story of a Former Christian Youth Minister – Joshua Evans
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYMKQKSV0bY

    July 14, 2011 at 1:33 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      1 delusion –> another delusion = twice deluded.
      Started high school at 15 ? Developmentally delayed ?
      He IS smart enough to figure out the textural criticism thing, but forgets about cultural context. His same criticisms can be applied equally to his new book. If psychology IS his major and mental illness IS his specialty, why can't he recognize it in himself ? He says Noah talking to god is absurd, but Mohamed is ? 2 hours of nonsense is still only nonsense. Don't waste your time.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:01 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Bucky nails it out of the park!

      Its like using heroin to get off cocaine!

      July 14, 2011 at 2:15 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Hey wasn't Captain Americas side kick called Buckey back in the 50's?

      July 14, 2011 at 2:47 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      @William
      I didn't know that. 😈 I guess so. But a Bucky Ball is the nick-name for a Buckminster Fullerene, and organic molecule, C60, (which resembles a Geodesic Dome, invented by Buckminster Fuller), one of the fullerenes, discovered by Kroto, Curl, and Smalley, for which they received the Nobel.
      - Buckminster, (you may call me Bucky, (my life-long nick-name)).

      July 14, 2011 at 3:03 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Dude

      I am a nerd. Did you know they are using them to encapsulate fissionable materials to develop nukes that have NO critical mass required?

      Bombard the stuff (prbably lithium) with high powered laser and KABOOM>

      July 14, 2011 at 3:06 pm |
    • RightTurnClyde

      R. Buckminster Fuller .. Southern Illilnois U. Carbondale (called C'dale) .. . late 60's early 70's .. where the City of New Orleans stopped and con_tin_ued on up to Chicago (through Mt. Vernon, Ef_f*ng_ham, Arc*la, Tu_sc*la, Champ-aign, Rantoul, Kan_key_key and Chee_caw_goe ..blus_n_j*z and bur_bin on ice .. icy drinks 'n hot wim_min n a 357 in the car ... ridin on the City of New Orleans .. ya gonna need a pre_ech wen yer dunn ... limbo at least

      July 14, 2011 at 3:23 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      RtC
      re Limbo : not to worry. Bought a Plenary, which repays the bill, (which they said was already paid), and gets me a pass.
      Would appreciate any referrals to my insurance agency. We sell them for only 10% markup.

      July 15, 2011 at 7:10 am |
  20. Barry

    Artist,

    You clearly have not done your homework–have you?

    As Job once said to his friends: "For you silence would be wisdom."

    It's always wise to think before you speak, and to know about the things of which you speak.

    July 14, 2011 at 1:30 pm |
    • God

      How can you know about things that are made up? Like religion.

      July 14, 2011 at 1:46 pm |
    • Colin

      It seems like you are merely looking to insult Artist's intellectual integrity by trying to falsely prop yourself up as a person of authority. You haven't identified any point that would actually be relevant to the discussion.

      July 14, 2011 at 2:34 pm |
    • Artist

      Barry

      Artist,

      You clearly have not done your homework–have you?

      As Job once said to his friends: "For you silence would be wisdom."

      It's always wise to think before you speak, and to know about the things of which you speak.

      -------
      Which homework do you speak of? It helps if you quote what you are responding to.

      July 14, 2011 at 5:49 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.