First family to church
July 17th, 2011
12:03 PM ET

First family to church

Washington (CNN) – The first family attended St. John's Episcopal Church Sunday morning, according to White House pool reports.

President Obama and first lady Michele Obama waved en route to the church with their daughters Sasha and Malia.

St. John's is near the White House, across from Lafayette Park.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Barack Obama • Belief • Church • Politics

soundoff (175 Responses)
  1. Daniel

    The Obamas usually go to church, attending different churches around Washington, DC. Hardly news, though it is a nice family photo.

    July 18, 2011 at 6:46 pm |
  2. batchoftruth

    why are theists whining about blaspheming atheists, if your God did exist he would be able to defend him self.

    July 18, 2011 at 5:22 pm |
    • SoundOfForest

      It'll be too late for atheists then.

      July 18, 2011 at 11:15 pm |
  3. Buddy R

    Lol!!!!!!! Obama has not been attending church since being elected president. Now that it is time to campaign for reelection he starts going to church again. I hope American will see through his lies.

    July 18, 2011 at 4:48 pm |
    • Thomas Perl

      He goes to church at times and has special services.

      July 18, 2011 at 4:51 pm |
    • Buddy R

      He has gone to church 6 times since being elected president.


      July 18, 2011 at 4:54 pm |
  4. Geraline Graves

    Christians shake the dust off. Let it go. God gave man free will. Whatever they do with it, they will be judged whether they believe it or not! I'd rather live right, than in hell lift up my eyes.

    July 18, 2011 at 1:59 pm |
  5. SoundOfForest

    Benjamin Franklin was quite okay, too, though one must go to church. Do Americans read on Founding Fathers and historic presidents of wartime anymore?

    July 18, 2011 at 1:21 pm |
  6. SoundOfForest

    Yes, American atheists, read the Bible and on Abraham Lincoln, your most respected historic president.

    July 18, 2011 at 1:16 pm |
  7. SoundOfForest

    The word "fundies" is cute. Glad to be one. Atheists, be ready for another "Civil War" on morality. No retreat.

    July 18, 2011 at 1:10 pm |
  8. Skopji

    Alright every athiest who is angry at fundies should really do SOME reading about christian denominations.

    Episcopalians aren't fundies, we actually are more liberal than most athiests and a lot of our members and clergy are scientists. My chaplain is an evolutionary biologist, and most members don't see an issue with being religious and believing in evolution. (there are other things as well but its just one example)

    I'm not trying to convert you or anything, but please do some reading before you attack anything that has to do with Christianity.

    July 18, 2011 at 12:09 pm |
    • Anglican

      We Anglicans do not "check" our brains at the door of the church. Press on, my friend.

      July 18, 2011 at 2:33 pm |
  9. JA

    its pretty funny that my comments keep being deleted because i can prove my Christian God is real.

    July 18, 2011 at 11:16 am |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      How I got to this Blog is sheer and unadulterated happenstance! I am a Trued Believer in Christian Fundamentalism even though I believe in GOD, GODDESS, and Their Sons and Daughters who are Gods and Goddesses in their own Dimension of Space and also I believe in Manliness and Womanhood. Thusly said, I shall attempt a Visceral Explanation as to Why I believe the Way I Do.

      My Passing Days of rooting here and digging over there for bits and pieces of information did enthrall My Heartfelt Soul! I don’t remember exactly when but it may have been 10 or 15 years ago that I ran across a website by a Robert Oldershaw regarding “Fractal Cosmology” which is a newly formed Science regarding Universes within Universes ad Infinitum. I, for the intentions which will become clearer, will only tell you about Two Dimensions of Fractal Cosmologic Relativity.

      1. Our Celestial Universe and 2. All Life Form’s Cellular Based Universes we simply call cells.

      If GOD does have a Real Body, then assuredly this Universe we find ourselves being a part of is it! And as to His Sons and daughters, the Gods and Goddesses, they are all alive living deeply within all Life Form’s Cellular sized Universes. If this is a Truism then what does it mean for Manliness and Womanhood as we are but Vessels of Containment for the welfare of the Gods and Goddesses?

      Where will we when we die or cease to function within the Framed Workings of the Celestial; pour out one’s soul to? As Beings of Humane Omnivores eating away all manner of Otherly Life, will we be judged for this Consuming Altruism or will we cease to exist and nevermore Be?

      I do not believe GOD or the Gods that infill us are imbecilic enough to just cast our souls into a furnace without Judgment befalling us! I do Wholeheartedly Believe that when we die, we are cast inwardly into the Cavernous depths of Inner Space wherein we do reach the throngs of The Gods and Goddesses who reside therein the Celled Universes and there be adjudicated in our worthiness and rewarded due our endowed and befitting capabilities before we died and came down from the Celestial imbruing of generations Lost in the Infirmities of Mentally Being Grown.

      For is it not written that a Day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is but a Day?

      To GOD, the Universe only a day or two has past but we have lived thousands or even millions of years upon this Celestial embankment and thousands perhaps millions or even billions of years have passed within the Framed Works of Our Life Form’s Cellular Universes.

      “Yes, I am a Sinner and I do and will continue to Ask of GOD Almighty to forgive me of My Sinfulness. I make no Claim on what I write about for without the Guidance of the Unknown by me God who does nourish my mindset Ways I am lost in the Word!”

      I shall close this writing with a Prayer.

      Our Fathers who Art within the heavens of Heaven; Hallowed be Their Names. Their Kingdoms Come and Their Wills be done Upon this Earth as is within their heavens. Give to Our Thoughts our daily Bread and Forgive us Our Sins as we forgive those who sinned against us and lead all naught into Temptation, but Deliver us all from Evil for GOD is the Power and the Glory Forever and Ever, Amen.

      July 18, 2011 at 11:18 am |
    • .

      I'm sure if you pray harder, God will get your post past the moderation filter.

      July 18, 2011 at 5:59 pm |
  10. Anglican

    Let us love one another. Too much hate on this blog.

    July 18, 2011 at 10:42 am |
    • Thomas McVeigh

      #%$@! you.

      July 19, 2011 at 5:44 am |
  11. AvdBerg

    What does the Bible teach us about the word “Church” and which is the true church (the Body of Christ)? And if you have to choose one which one do you join, especially if the Bible teaches that “The most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands (Acts 7:48; 17:24)?”
    Confused? For a better understanding what it means to be a member of a local church and what spirit it serves (Luke 9:55) we invite you to read the articles “Church and what it means” and “Can Christianity or any other religion save you?” listed on our website.
    You can locate it by entering “a world deceived” on Google. It is easy to find as it has been the number one listing for the last five years. Today there are more than 10 million listings. All of the other pages and articles on our website explain how this whole world has been deceived as confirmed in Revelation 12:9 and the Bible is true. It is the discerner of every thought and the intent of the heart (Hebrews 5:12).

    July 18, 2011 at 7:16 am |
  12. mike

    @ SoundFromForest
    Are you a troll? you seem to be doing a good job getting fimeilleur goin. Not that he/she seems to mind.

    July 18, 2011 at 1:09 am |
  13. SoundFromForest

    Why do you atheists blaspheme on a planet that is being baked? You guys are fools according to the Bible and it is right.

    July 18, 2011 at 12:39 am |
    • think for yourself

      Because blasphemy is a victimless crime.

      July 18, 2011 at 8:32 am |
    • .

      "And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell." (Matt 5:22)

      July 18, 2011 at 10:53 am |
    • Reality

      As per many contemporary NT scholars, the "hell" portion of Matt 5: 22 was not said by the historical Jesus. e.g. See Professor Gerd Luedemann's conclusions in his book, "Jesus After 2000 Years", p. 139.

      July 18, 2011 at 12:38 pm |
    • SoundFromForest

      Matthew 5:22 applies to fellow believers, not to atheists. Read the text, atheists. Reality got only pseudo-scholars.

      July 18, 2011 at 12:46 pm |
    • .

      Fine "the fire of [Detroit]" then. Does it matter?

      July 18, 2011 at 1:55 pm |
    • .

      Take your pick:

      1) What happened to "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Mark 12:31) and "Love your enemies..." (Matt 5:44)? Or are you saying there are different rules for those in your church and non-members?

      or 2)
      "Original Word Word Origin
      ἀδελφός from (1) (as a connective particle) and delphus (the womb)
      Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling
      adelphos ad-el-fos'
      1 a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother
      2 having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman
      3 any fellow or man
      4 a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection
      5 an associate in employment or office
      6 brethren in Christ
      A his brothers by blood
      B all men
      C apostles
      D Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place"


      July 18, 2011 at 2:03 pm |
    • Reality

      "Gerd Lüdemann is Professor of New Testament at the University of Göttingen, Germany, Director of the Inst-itute of Early Christian Studies, and Founder and Director of the Archive "Religionsgeschichtliche Schule" at the University of Göttingen. He has also served as Visiting Scholar at Vanderbilt Divinity School in Nashville, Tennessee, and as co-chair of the Society of Biblical Literature Seminar on Jewish Christianity. His many books include The Resurrection of Jesus, The Great Deception, The Unholy in Holy Scripture, and Heretics: The Other Side of Early Christianity.


      Eyes That See Not: The Pope Looks at Jesus, 2008
      The Great Deception: What Jesus Really Said and Did, 1999
      Suppressed Prayers: Gnostic Spirituality in Early Christianity, 1998
      Vir-gin Birth? The Real History of Mary and Her Son Jesus, 1998
      The Unholy in Holy Scripture: The Dark Side of the Bible, 1997
      Her-etics: The Other Side of Early Christianity, 1996
      What Really Happened to Jesus, 1995
      The Resurrection of Jesus: History, Experience, and Theology, 1994
      Academic Credentials

      D.Theol., University of Göttingen
      D. Habil., University of Göttingen
      Special Study

      Visiting Scholar, Vanderbilt Divinity School, 1992–1998
      Duke University, 1974–1975
      Academic Appointments

      Professor of New Testament, Georg-August-University,
      Göttingen, Germany, 1983–
      Associate Professor of New Testament, Vanderbilt Divinity School, Nashville, 1980–1983
      Assistant Professor of New Testament, Vanderbilt Divinity School, Nashville, 1979–1980
      Visiting Assistant Professor of Jewish Christianity and Gnosticism, McMaster University, Dept. of Religion, 1977–1979
      Academic Assistant of New Testament, Georg-August-University Göttingen, Germany, 1975–1977
      Professional Service

      Founder and Director, Archive "Religionsgeschichtliche Schule," Göttingen, Germany, 1987–
      Member of the editorial board: The Second Century. A Journal of Early Christian Studies, 1981–1992
      Co-chair: SBL Seminar about Jewish Christianity, 1979–1984
      Membership in Professional Societies

      Canadian Society of Biblical Studies
      Society of Biblical Literature
      Studiorum Novi Testamenti Societas
      The Jesus Seminar
      Verband der Judaisten in der Bundesrepublik Deutschland
      Wissenschaftliche Gesellschaft für Theologie
      Awards and Honors

      Heisenberg-Scholarship of the Deutsche Forschungsgemeinschaft, 1980–1983
      Website: http://www.gwdg.de/~gluedem/

      July 18, 2011 at 2:51 pm |
    • .

      Thank you for the reminder not to engage you in any way.

      July 18, 2011 at 3:18 pm |
    • SoundOfForest

      @. We Christians love atheists like ourselves. That's why they are safe only with Christians. We just tell atheists the truth they need to know in plain language.

      July 18, 2011 at 11:18 pm |
    • SoundOfForest

      Reality, German scholars are liberal activists. Something got wrong in Germany since 19th century. They never read the Biblical text like yourself but just keep talking about it. I hear the Chinese communists are better on Christianity than those German scholars.

      July 18, 2011 at 11:22 pm |
  14. fimeilleur

    @ SoundFromForest,

    Again with the apologetics. "get a study bible and read instead of wasting your time". Ok, here's the problem... should I get a Lutheran study bible? Jehovah's Witness study bible? Roman Catholic study Bible? Looks to me like I have a choice between 30,000 different study bibles, and they ALL claim to have the TRUE interpretation of the PERFECT WORD OF GOD. If that moronic deity was truely omnipotent, there would be ONE religion, ONE interpretation. I have wasted my time with you. You are far too dishonest to see reality even when it hits you in the face. The fact that you are a young earth creationist speaks VOLUMES of your dishonesty. To think that the flood story explains the diversity of the animals, that the tower of Bable explains the diversity of languages and races, Your God is fake. Your Jesus is fake. Your salvation is fake. May God Be Less.

    July 18, 2011 at 12:18 am |
    • SoundFromForest

      Stop blaspheming, you evil atheist. Get any study Bible except for the JW's World Translation since the translation itself is unscholarly. Your worst problem is laziness, refusing to read the Bible text. No normal humans would have guts to talk about stuff that they have no idea about. I came back to tell you to read my comments since I replied to most of yours. I may not come back to the same pages or sites, but please shake off some dishonest stupidity by next time.

      July 18, 2011 at 12:30 am |
    • SoundFromForest

      @Fime-, you have pre-determined not to believe in God without reason. You can repent of your evil while you are alive, but don't wait too long. Your sin of blasphemy is the proof of existence of hell( in case you didn't read right).

      July 18, 2011 at 12:37 am |
    • fimeilleur

      Again with the name calling... You cannot name one evil thing that I have done, with the exeption of refusing to kneel to your God. What makes you think I haven't read the texts? I seem to know where to get the quotes that refute yours... even the in the SIMPSONS, Lisa was called scholarly by the Jewish elders. I have been going back to many past posts and I have read them... some the conversation transfered here so I left them be... others are circular... I got bored of them. I am not the dishonest one... I can at least back my claims for disbelief.

      July 18, 2011 at 12:38 am |
    • fimeilleur

      my sin of blasphemy is proof of the existance of hell? is that like proof of presents under the tree on December 25th proof of Santa?

      July 18, 2011 at 12:40 am |
    • fimeilleur

      My disbelief in God is NOT without reason... it is specifically BECAUSE of reason... the fact that there is no credible evidence for the existance of God is reason enough. You use this same reason for your disbelief in Zeus, Saturn, Thor, Buddha, Vishnu, etc. but you are too dishonest to apply the same reasoning to Yaweh. THAT is why you are dishonest.

      July 18, 2011 at 12:43 am |
    • mike

      lol heaven and hell are here on earth lol. When we're at our worst we're in hell, when we are experiencing things like true happiness and good dreams coming true we're in heaven. Who wouldn't want to be in heaven.

      July 18, 2011 at 12:49 am |
    • David Johnson


      fimeilleur is right. He pointed out how the Christian god did not give man a bible that was not ambiguous and could not even convince the majority of the world that He is the one true god. Here is some other reasons to doubt your god:

      No one can prove a negative. I can't prove that god does not exist. I also can't prove Santa Claus does not exist. But in life, we decide what is real and not real, based on what we see in the real-world.

      In the real world, any object that provides no evidence for its existence is classified as imaginary.

      I think we can rule out god, in the same way we rule out any other mythological creature. I can't prove vampires or werewolves or fairies don't exist. But, I bet you would agree, that they are not real. They just don't fit in with the reality we see all around us.

      So, we can look for attributes of god, that should provide evidence that He exists.
      If positive evidence is found, we should conclude that god probably exists.
      If positive evidence is not found, then we should conclude that the Christian God, beyond a reasonable doubt, does not exist. Just like Santa. Just like fairies. Just like vampires.

      One of the most compelling reasons for rejecting god, is the fact that there are so many versions of god(s). Some, not even human (The elephant-faced god – Ganesha etc.). Each religion, each denomination of each religion, defines god's wants differently. All of these religions cannot be right. But they can all be wrong.
      Perhaps man has not yet found the one true god, or perhaps He does not exist.

      Christians claim their god is Omnipotent ( all powerful), Omniscient (all knowing) and Omnibenevolent (all good).

      1.) If god is Omnibenevolent, He would WANT every human to believe in Him.
      The bible says He does:

      2 Peter 3:9
      9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. King James Version (KJV)

      1 Timothy 2:4
      4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. King James Version (KJV)

      2.) If god is Omniscient, then He would KNOW exactly how to convince anyone and everyone that He exists.

      3.) If god is Omnipotent, then He would be ABLE to convince anybody and everybody that He exists.

      Yet, ~ 68% of the world's population are not Christians.

      Therefore, the Christian god is very unlikely to exist.

      In the same vein as the above, notice how many denominations of Christianity there are (~ 34,000). Each denomination can show you scripture, that "proves" they understand the wants of Jesus/god.
      All of the denominations could not be correctly interpreting the bible. Many are contradictory.
      Many of these denominations believe only their members will be saved.

      If the Christian god exists, and He is all knowing and all powerful and all good, why didn't He provide a bible that could not be misinterpreted? That everyone's comprehension of His wants would be the same?

      Christians believe god's purpose in creating the Bible is to guide human beings towards a knowledge of God, and to help them lead moral lives, Christians must be certain of the meaning of the Bible.

      ambiguity – a word or expression that can be understood in two or more possible ways : an ambiguous word or expression.

      "There are in excess of 1,000 Christian faith groups in North America. They teach diverse beliefs about the nature of Jesus, God, the second coming, Heaven, Hell, the rapture, criteria for salvation, speaking in tongues, the atonement, what happens to persons after death, and dozens of other topics.

      On social controversies, faith groups teach a variety of conflicting beliefs about abortion access, equal rights for ho_mo$exuals and bi$exuals, who should be eligible for marriage, the death penalty, physician assisted suicide, human $exuality topics, origins of the universe, and dozens of other topics.

      The groups all base their theological teachings on the Bible. Generally speaking, the theologians in each of these faith groups are sincere, intelligent, devout, thoughtful and careful in their interpretation of the Bible. But, they come to mutually exclusive conclusions about what it teaches. Further, most are absolutely certain that their particular interpretations are correct, and that the many hundreds of faith groups which teach opposing beliefs are in error." Source: Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance

      If the bible is ambiguous, then it cannot be said to be inerrant.

      The Christian god is very unlikely to exist.

      Another reason to reject the idea of a god, is because there appears to be no need for one. Each hour of each day, science fills another gap in man's knowledge, that god once filled. So far, science has found no need for a god.
      Belief without a reason or evidence, is called "delusional".

      Christians often quote:
      John 3:16 – For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

      If the Christian god so loves the world, why does he allow / cause so much suffering? Disease, famine, floods, earthquakes etc. ad infinitum, ad nauseum. ?

      I can explain the existence of these horrors as being due to natural causes and evolution, but my explanation fails when I include an all loving Creator in the equation. I keep getting a "Can't divide by zero" error.

      Christians say their god is omnibenevolent (all good); omnipotent (all powerful); omniscient ( all knowing)

      1. If the Christian god is all knowing, He would be AWARE of all the suffering on earth.

      2. If the Christian god is all good, He would WANT to rid the world of suffering / evil.

      3. If the Christian god is all powerful, He would be ABLE to rid the world of suffering / evil.

      4. Yet, evil persists.

      Therefore, The Christian god is very unlikely to exist.

      The Christian god is said to be omniscient and omnipotent. But these attributes are not compatible.

      If the Christian god is all knowing, if the future can be known, then even god would be bound by events in the future. Everything would be predetermined.

      1. If the Christian god, knows what will happen in the future, and does something else...then, He is not all knowing.

      2. If the Christian god knows the future and cannot change it, then He is not all powerful.

      3. The attributes attributed to the Christian god conflict with one another.

      The Christian god with these attributes cannot exist. No being can have these attributes at the same time.

      Evolution, with its evidence of transitional fossils, geological column, DNA evidence, vestigial organs etc., is very damning to the biblical Creation Story.

      If god created all the organisms on the planet, then He must have created even the diseases that have caused and are causing so much death and misery for humans and animals. He would have had to fashion the tick and the flea. The mosquito and blood flukes. And worms that bore into a child's eye.
      How could an all good god do such a thing? Why would He spend His time creating gruesome things to cause human suffering? Yet, these horrors exist. And if god didn't create them, who did?

      Evolution explains the diversity of the planet's organisms, including the pathogens and the parasites that have caused so much human death and misery.

      If the Creation Story is a fable, then Adam and Eve did not exist.

      If Adam and Eve did not exist, then there was no original sin.

      If there was no original sin, then it cannot be the reason god allows so much suffering in the world. We can dump the guilt trip.

      If there was no original sin, then there was no need for a redeemer.

      If there was no redeemer, then Christianity is a based on a false premise.

      "If we cannot believe in the First Adam, why believe in the Last [Christ]?" 1 Corinthians15:45

      If the Creation story is a myth, then there is no reason to believe any of the bible.

      If we evolved, there is no soul –> no afterlife –> no need of a heaven or hell.

      LOL, which is why the Evangelicals fight so hard against evolution.

      Evolution is the Christian god's Achilles' heel.

      The Christian god is no more likely to exist than unicorns, satyrs, fiery serpents, or talking snakes or Santa. And you don't believe in any of those, Right?


      July 18, 2011 at 1:03 am |
    • Colin

      And having had his clock cleaned by David Johnson, I doubt SoundFromforest will be back. He's probably off contemplating whether that tree he never heard fall made any noise.

      July 18, 2011 at 8:12 am |
    • JA

      I can prove God is real. I urge you to g00gle Lamenin. Its a protein in the human body that tells each cell its purpose. And also holds cells together. It holds our bodies together. Colossians 1:17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. Amen

      July 18, 2011 at 10:32 am |
    • tallulah13

      JA: So how does a protein shaped like a four armed noodle prove god? Is it because sometimes (especially in human-created illustrations) it looks like a cross? That is beyond silly. The shape seems to be fairly changeable. What if the ends bend and it looks like a swastika? Would that mean hitler is god?

      July 18, 2011 at 10:53 am |
    • JA

      tallulah13: yes i understand that in the human body it can bend, but according to molecular biologic rules, (this you would have found out if you werent so narrowminded and read from more sources) the only way this protein can be shown is in a cross-like shape, not an x, not like a swastika, but ONLY a cross.

      July 18, 2011 at 11:26 am |
    • tallulah13

      JA: I looked at images of the protein. It looked very little like a cross, though sometimes it looked like an X. I'm sorry. Your proof is invalid.

      July 18, 2011 at 11:31 am |
    • JA

      your arrogance blinds you. i pray that one day The Lord will open your eyes to see The Truth.

      July 18, 2011 at 11:54 am |
    • JW

      I dont really look at the shape of cells or anything like that. I just think that the evolutionary theory has some holes that cant be explained. The first primates did not appear until 65 million years ago. Scientists do not believe human evolved from these primates. The first humans did not appear until about 10 million years ago. The fossil record doesnt appear to show a gradual evolving process.

      July 18, 2011 at 12:42 pm |
    • Nonimus

      What are you talking about? What [credible] scientist is saying that humans didn't evolve from primates? Or is it possible that a scientist was saying that he didn't think humans evolved from a particular species of primate, i.e. a branch that didn't lead to humans? The fossil record does indeed show a gradual process of evolution. It may not show a consistently gradual process, but it does show gradual evolution at varying degrees of rapidity.

      In other words, if there are evironmental factors which support large radiations of traits quickly, such as for survivors of events that wiped out most of their predators, e.g. the ancestors of primates, mammals ~65 mya when the dinosaurs died out, then evolution can happen relatively quickly (think 1000s or even 100s of generations.) In stable environments, where all niches are occupied by successful species, then it is much more difficult, though not impossible, for new traits to displace existing ones.

      July 18, 2011 at 3:15 pm |
    • J.W

      I meant particular species of primates. I know that scientists do believe that humans came from primates. But from what I have seen the earliest ancestors of primates did not show up until 65 MYO. I have also questioned that the originally organisms came about naturally, because they would have evolved from non-living material, from what I have read either amino acids or RNA. I have not been able to find that scientists have been able to recreate this. I would also thing that scientists would have discovered how single-celled organisms originally became multi-cellular organisms, if all of this happened without God or any supernatural power.

      July 18, 2011 at 5:54 pm |
    • Nonimus

      Oh, perhaps you mean the first primates showed up ~60mya. Yes, that is correct, from what I can tell. Transitional "primate-like" creatures were apparently showing up about 65mya, at the end of the and the first species that is classified as primate didn't show up until ~60 mya. So it took around 5 million years to go from primate-like to primate. In looking backwards in evolution, you might look to the next more general classification, which, in this case appears to be a SuperOrder of Euarchontoglires (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euarchontoglires, [honestly, the first I've heard of this one]) including rodents, treeshrews, and primates among others and supposedly showed up "85 to 95 million years ago during the Cretaceous."

      As to the Abiogenisis, which is not part of the Theory of Evolution, you are correct that scientists have not determined what the mechanisms were for producing the first life. There are many hypotheses, but nothing definitive yet. Which leaves the question somewhat open, although I would add that there is still a lot more evidence to support Abiogensis than there is for a supernatural explaination.

      July 18, 2011 at 6:33 pm |
    • Nonimus

      ^ Should read "...65mya, at the end of the Mesozoic Era and..."

      July 18, 2011 at 6:37 pm |
    • J.W

      I have been doing more research into evolution, the beginning of life, and the beginning of the universe. I think abiogensis is important, as well as any other theories that may explain the beginning of life. I think that abiogensis does make sense. In the creation story God basically created living things from non-living material, which is kind of what abiogensis is. Another thing that interests me is that most of the first plant fossils are dated after most of the first animals. Was there other plant-like organisms capable of producing oxygen?

      July 18, 2011 at 11:43 pm |
  15. SoundFromForest

    @Fime-, good-bye. See you tomorrow! I'm quitting! You're a rare strong case that can keep me here but I GOTTA go ~ !

    July 18, 2011 at 12:10 am |
  16. Reality

    Said church should post the following sign on the door:

    Dear President Obama,


    July 17, 2011 at 11:47 pm |
    • SoundFromForest

      Reality, maybe people are right. Only lunatics keep blogging the same thing. I wish you were a bit more creative and original...

      July 17, 2011 at 11:52 pm |
    • Reality

      As we "thu-mp" along with rational thinking, conclusions and reiteration to counter the millennia of false and flawed religious history and theology!!!------––

      July 18, 2011 at 7:29 am |
  17. mike

    I know this is a blog about faith, but I'm gonna throw it out there anyway. Does anyone out there believe the 4th dimension exists? How about the 5th or the 11th. I know I can imagine the 4th. But the 5th and onward seem like a streach.

    July 17, 2011 at 11:23 pm |
    • SoundFromForest

      The Bible mentions the 3rd heaven and skies are expressed in plural. Our vast visible universe must be yet not-too-big deal to God... Yet God Himself(Jesus) came to us in a human form like us. Truly amazing. Our world has meaning because of Jesus.

      July 17, 2011 at 11:32 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      Hey! SNAP OUT OF IT! you get distracted too easily to talk about things you don't understand, let alone the things you think you understand. I asked you a question...

      July 17, 2011 at 11:35 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      @ SoundFromForest,

      Hey! SNAP OUT OF IT! you get distracted too easily to talk about things you don't understand, let alone the things you think you understand. I asked you a question...

      July 17, 2011 at 11:36 pm |
    • mike

      ??? So you believe there's a 4th dimension?

      July 17, 2011 at 11:40 pm |
    • mike

      I didn't want to bring god into this one. But there's no math blog.

      July 17, 2011 at 11:44 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      mike writes, " I know this is a blog about faith, but I'm gonna throw it out there anyway. Does anyone out there believe the 4th dimension exists? How about the 5th or the 11th. I know I can imagine the 4th. But the 5th and onward seem like a streach"

      Do you possibly know of the Dimensions of Fractal Cosmologic Relativity? No? Well then. I will try to explain.

      Fractal Cosmology is yet an Infant Science wherewith people are attempting to explain it as Universes within Universes ad infinitum or forever but I find that hard to construe. One should only be concerned with the Dimensions of Fractal Relativity that are directly relative to our frame of reference. Our Planets Celestial Universe and our Body's Cellular Universes are these only two Dimensions of Fractal Relativity one should consider when we talk about Fractal Cosmology. Any addition to there being more than these two dimensions of Fractal Relativity should be frowned upon.

      July 17, 2011 at 11:45 pm |
    • SoundFromForest

      @Fime-, I will answer you regarding your question on the previous page. It's harmonized understanding of the text to get what author intends to communicate with the readers. Methods such as hermeneutics and exegesis lead you to right conclusions.

      July 17, 2011 at 11:48 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      Mike, I know very little about numbered Dimensions. I know there is Length and width and depth and bredth. What are the 5th, 6th and so on Dimensions?

      July 17, 2011 at 11:56 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      @ SoundFromForest;

      OHHHHHHhhhhhh! So it's subject to the interpretation of the reader!!!!!!!!! Here I thought the word of God was SOLID! Since you have a Direct line with Jesus, here are a few more...

      Ezekiel 18:20: The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.

      Exodus 20:5: I the lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

      I want to hear this one.

      July 18, 2011 at 12:00 am |
    • fimeilleur

      @ Mike, sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread... I'll start a new one to her reply. 🙂

      July 18, 2011 at 12:01 am |
    • SoundFromForest

      @Fime-, no, there are proper methods of interpretation that must be followed just like formulas in math or science. The passage in Ezekiel is God's standard for judgment. Exodus is about inevitable, actual happenings in reality – natural sequences in life – when one seriously sins. However, faithful faith in God reverses everything. Fime-, get a study Bible and read instead of wasting time.

      July 18, 2011 at 12:08 am |
    • JF

      God Himself(Jesus) came to us in a human form like us. Truly amazing.

      It's truly amazing that people still find this amazing in the 21st. century.

      July 18, 2011 at 12:25 am |
    • mike

      Well thanks Richard S.K. I've heard of fractal cosmology before, just haven't looked into it far. But I still like the big bang theory. Not only is the universe expanding, its accelerating. That (correct me if I'm wrong) is a fact. That fact would favour the big bang, and what I believe to be the 4th dimension. What other interesting things do you know RSK????

      July 18, 2011 at 12:27 am |
    • SoundFromForest

      @JF: God was once here on this planet before and so He will be here again, no problem!

      July 18, 2011 at 12:33 am |
    • mike

      I don't know about the 5th and beond lol not at all. I was hoping someone out there may have a better way of explaining it than others have.

      July 18, 2011 at 12:38 am |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      Hi Mike!

      I have the address of a website whoe author is Robert Oldershaw and at His Site, he has photographs of Celstial Nebulas and "Atomic" Nebulas and they are so similar it is awesome to say in the least! I hope this url doesn't upset the applecart but heregoes http://www3.amherst.edu/~rloldershaw/menu.html is Robert Oldershaw's website

      July 18, 2011 at 12:57 am |
    • Lindsey

      Mike: With God, anything is possible! I wouldn't doubt it!

      July 18, 2011 at 5:08 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      if you are really interested in an answer to your question posted on this thread ,or discredit the answer you've been given,i'd offer to explain it to you.this is in reference to Ezekiel/Exodus.

      July 19, 2011 at 6:54 pm |
    • fimeilleur

      @ herbert juarez
      The question is still open... feel free to "enlighten" me on how "no-one" will be held responsible for the acts of their parents as perscribed by God, except for the 3 or 4 generations when perscribe by God. Seems like your perfect God changes his mind often enough... you'd have to question his perfection... and if he knows EVERYTHING, that includes the future, wouldn't he have forseen the rule change? Couldn't he just get it right in the first place?

      July 22, 2011 at 2:52 pm |
  18. whatwasthat

    @mike Are you ok? What does "c'mon athiest do it, or can you?" mean?

    July 17, 2011 at 11:15 pm |
    • poop


      July 17, 2011 at 11:30 pm |
  19. whatwasthat

    @mike–Are you OK? what does "c'mon athiest do it, or can you." mean?

    July 17, 2011 at 11:11 pm |
  20. whatwasthat

    @ mike– Are you OK? What does, "c'mon athiest do it, or can you" mean?

    July 17, 2011 at 11:06 pm |
    • mike

      I guess I do need to use full sentances. C'mon, the atheist knew what I was doing.

      July 17, 2011 at 11:16 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.