July 20th, 2011
08:58 PM ET

Campus Crusade for Christ loses the 'crusade'

By Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

(CNN)– The massive Christian ministry founded to minister and convert college students around the globe is changing its name.

Campus Crusade for Christ will change its name to "Cru" for its U.S. operations in early 2012, the Orlando-based ministry announced.

The new name was revealed late Tuesday to 5,000 staff members at a conference in Colorado.

Bill Bright and his wife Vonette founded the college ministry in 1951.

Bill Bright talked about his idea for the ministry with a seminary professor one day.  The professor scrawled the name Campus Crusade for Christ on a slip of paper and brought it to Bright the next day, according to Steve Sellers, the vice president of CCC.

"In the very beginning, Bill had discussed the possibility that we would need to change the name at some time," Vonette Bright said in a video posted by the organization. "I believe the time is right to change it."

Bill Bright died in 2003.

Today the group said it has 25,000 full-time and part-time staffers serving in 191 countries.  In the United States alone, staff members work on 800 college campuses, which is still the centerpiece of the organization.

Last year the global nature of the ministry was on display on the world stage when one of their staff members helped the trapped Chilean miners.

Christian Maureira, the head of CCC's Chilean ministry, provided Spanish-language MP3 versions of the Bible to the miners and helped get them T-shirts they wore when they emerged from the San Jose mine.

"Cru" has long been a nickname on the local college level, Sellers said.  The organization spent two years and went through 1,600 options to sort out a new name, he said.

"The word 'crusade' changes over time in terms of its volatility.  Of course everyone remembers back in the Middle Ages when the Crusades came about; of course no one wants to be associated with that," he said.

In the 1950s the word crusade was associated with famed evangelist Billy Graham and mission work.  Today, working on college campus in pluralist situations, the name is often divisive.

"In 2011 it has more of its historic meaning and was becoming more problematic.  So we were having more and more pushback that the name was hindering us from doing our mission, which is not something you want to be true of you," Sellers said.

The organization posted on its website the name change announcement in more detail: "Our surveys show that, in the U.S., 20% of the people willing to consider the gospel are less interested in talking with us after they hear the name."

"They need to emphasize while the name is changed the mission hasn't," said Kristin Cole, a manger of accounts for A. Larry Ross Communications, a top public relations firm in the faith-based community. "Your name it is important, but your mission is even more important."

While many Christian denominations and other ministries have a presence on college campuses, for decades Campus Crusade for Christ has been ubiquitous, with Christian outreach to students both domestically and internationally. But another reason they changed the name was the ministry had grown beyond just college campuses to 29 other areas of ministry.

One of the biggest concerns for the organization regarding the name change was dealing with donors.  The ministry relies on donations for virtually all its operating expenses.

Sellers said support has been good so far from donors on the name change.  "If they think about it, they recognize some of the inherent problems. And what they really care about is the mission that we do, not so much what our name is."

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Christianity

soundoff (379 Responses)
  1. WasabiPotPie

    Campus Crusade for Christ will change its name to "Cru".... that is as stupid as when Sci-Fi Channel changed it's name to SyFy.

    July 21, 2011 at 10:58 am |
    • Jesus

      Interesting that they're both a form of FICTION.

      July 21, 2011 at 12:00 pm |
    • Frogist

      @WasabiPotPie: I agree. But they are two different circ_umstances. "SciFi" was a copyrighted term, so they had to change their name. CCC is just trying to rebrand themselves.

      July 21, 2011 at 12:35 pm |
    • Ray in Vegas

      I SERIOUSLY doubt that SyFy had to change their name because "Sci-Fi" was copywrited. By whom? I think they changed their name because they have very little to do with science anymore ... what with the ghost and wrestiling shows. Plus "sci-fi" or "science fiction", unfortunately, still carries "nerd" connotations to many people. I always felt this channel never quite lived up to it's name anyway.

      July 23, 2011 at 6:35 pm |
  2. CatholicMom

    Changing a school name must be hard to do but obviously CCC stands for many different things to different people so they had to do it; …CCC means Catechism of the Catholic Church for me!

    July 21, 2011 at 10:40 am |
    • Jesus

      In the 1930s it meant the Civilian Conservation Corps....a wonderful organization that built roads in the wilderness. How dare these religion hucksters use that acronym!!

      July 21, 2011 at 9:00 pm |
    • Ray in Vegas

      Then there is "Consumer Credit Counseling" which helped me get out of debt!

      July 23, 2011 at 6:29 pm |
  3. Jeff in CT

    I'm not going to get into the Christian vs atheist debate, because most arguments on both sides are totally emotional and without facts to support them. You believe what you believe, I believe what I believe.

    I believe I will stop contributing my dollars to this organization, not because they drop Crusade from their name but because they drop Christ from their name. You can call it Crusade, Festival, Witness, Celebration, whatever you want, as long as you acknowledge Christ. I think dropping Christ from the name is a sign of cowardice and capitulation to wordly norms. Oh, we wouldn't want to offend or scare off anyone by mentioning the name of Christ, so let's just go with Cru. Huh? What does Cru even mean?

    I have personal friends who are in ministry with Athletes in Action, an organization of Campus Crusade for Christ. I have been supporting them financially for years because I believe in their ministry with amateur and professional athletes around the world. It is unfortuante that some donkey 21st century ad man was hired to come up with some stupid new name that de-emphasizes the focus on Christ. In the long run, it will hurt the organization and their ministry. It the short run, it will cost them a few hundred dollars a year from me, and I imagine I am not alone in this response.

    Now, whatever you believe, let's be civil to one another and stop the name calling. Christian, atheist, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, whatever, let's respect one another.

    July 21, 2011 at 10:36 am |
    • CruStudent

      Jeff, I would encourage you to check out the website that explains the name change. I have experienced first hand ministry with Campus Crusade, or Cru as it is already called on our campus, and the name being an obstacle in reaching people for the gospel. The 20% statistic mentioned in this article is reason enough to consider a name change. Ultimately, the name of the organization is not for the donors but for those who are being ministered to. If CCC has the opportunity in tearing down a barrier that stands between students having the opportunity to experience God and hear the gospel, than I think that that it is an important barrier to break down and a rare opportunity Crusade has in doing so.

      The name really only affects the ministry on U.S. campuses, as all other aspects of the organization will keep their same name, such as Athletes in Action. Other countries have already for years replaced the name Campus Crusade for Christ and will be able to retain their names.

      As you mentioned there can be concern in a Christian organization removing "Christ" from their name as it can be a sign of trying to be politically correct or distance themselves from the name of Christ, something that I first felt when I heard the name was being change. But, the message that Campus Crusade, or Cru, shares and the mission of the organization has not changed at all. The name change is actually an opportunity for this message and mission to reach even more people. And I can guarantee that anyone who spends just a few minutes around the organization will hear the name of Christ and His message, and witness a group of students living out their faith, and isn't that what is ultimately important?

      July 21, 2011 at 11:05 am |
    • Bruno

      May I then presume that you have a problem with Billy Graham Evangelical Association.

      And would not consider donating to or supporting this effective ministry?

      Since it pridefully includes Graham's name but not Christ Jesus.

      July 21, 2011 at 12:11 pm |
    • TheyNotHim

      Christ needs to be removed from the world, not just the name of this organization. Divisive, hate-filled dogma! Stop spreading lies and then we can have respect for one another Jeff.

      July 21, 2011 at 3:48 pm |
    • Dave

      CCCI is pretty clear on their website that they wanted to drop "Campus" because they have many non campus ministries, and "Crusade" because of it's historical aggressive connotation. They didn't mention that they intended to drop "for Christ" as well but I imagine that Cru for Christ sounded dumb. Obviously they are still a Christian evangelical organization winning souls for Christ. That hasn't changed.
      P.S. Maybe years ago they were "Athletes in Action for Christ" and already dropped the "for Christ". =)

      July 25, 2011 at 6:42 pm |
    • Duckmanbill

      I agree, they should have renamed to CruSt

      August 8, 2011 at 4:57 am |
  4. Richard S Kaiser

    Honey, AvdBerg is at the door again. Wrote; "Care to tell us what drugs you are on ?"

    I musta Hit a Nerve with you oh Honey. The Only "drug" I am on is the "HOLY SPIRIT: Guiding my thought-plaqued Nuances whereupon I spew forth My Scripted Words of Wisdom's Wantings In Declarartions' Made Manifest by an Unknown GOD Harbored deep within my Embodiment this Vessel of Dirt this is now of Manliness. I do so LOve the LORD of Lords and also lords and All their Children and children.

    July 21, 2011 at 10:15 am |
    • Laughing

      And that, my friends, is why religion is called the opiate of the masses. Have fun drinking your Kool-Aid

      July 21, 2011 at 10:21 am |
    • Laughing

      P.S. you should probably go look up some gramma rules. Just a hint, not ever word in your post needs to be capitalized.

      July 21, 2011 at 10:24 am |
    • Bruno

      Hint: "grammar" and "every" should be spelled correctly.

      July 21, 2011 at 12:15 pm |
    • Bruno

      "I sound my barbaric yawp over the roofs of the world"

      Walt Whitman

      July 21, 2011 at 12:39 pm |
  5. Jenn

    It's easy for people to feel brave while posting to a comments board anonymously. I always picture some lonely, timid and meek guy or gal posting many of these nasty comments. Face to face, most would not have the courage to say these things. That includes Christians and non-Christians by the way.

    July 21, 2011 at 9:59 am |
    • Laughing

      Good question, but you already know the answer already. Believers feel very confident saying all this sh-it all the time on TV, on the streets, walking up to my house, in Congress. Atheists.......well unfortuantely not nearly as many as I would like, then again when you have such nasty people screaming for your death because you believe one wacky 2,000 year old guy did something different than their wacky 2,000 year old guy, saying you believe in neither of them actually gone drive some to murder, which of course makes atheists a little nervous.

      July 21, 2011 at 10:10 am |
    • Laughing

      Good question, but you already know the answer. Believers feel very confident saying all this sh-it all the time on TV, on the streets, walking up to my house, in Congress. Atheists.......well unfortuantely not nearly as many as I would like, then again when you have such nasty people screaming for your death because you believe one wacky 2,000 year old guy did something different than their wacky 2,000 year old guy, saying you believe in neither of them actually gone drive some to murder, which of course makes atheists a little nervous.

      July 21, 2011 at 10:11 am |
    • Frogist

      @Jenn: Do you have a comment on the article? That might have been helpful in reducing some of the antagonism you say you care about by helping to get others to focus on the topic.

      July 21, 2011 at 12:41 pm |
  6. CW

    I see the atheists and non-believers have made it,

    I'll just say this. Just b/c you "chose" to not believe in God doesn't make it true....God said in the Bible..."Every knee will bow and every mouth with confess that he is Lord of all".

    July 21, 2011 at 8:40 am |
    • John Richardson

      The weak and utterly self-interested may bow. Others, no.

      July 21, 2011 at 8:43 am |
    • Tiktaalik

      And just because you "chose" to believe in god doesn't make him real, either. Quoting the bible to prove the existence of god is like quoting a Stephen King novel to prove the existence of the paranormal, or a comic to prove the existence of Superman.

      July 21, 2011 at 9:14 am |
    • Laughing

      Well don't you just have a quote for everything huh? The bible seems to pretty much have an answer to every question ever posed. Granted, it's really either "shun the non-believer" or"don't worry, they'll come around eventually". Personally it sort of sounds like the bible is some angry drunk reeling back and forth between anger and denial. Trust me, once you can take your nose far enough away from your little bible and look around, see how reality actually works, I guarantee you'll feel a lot better. Really, just try it.

      July 21, 2011 at 9:30 am |
    • William Demuth

      Your God is unworthy of worship

      We killed him once, and if he comes back I shall personally kill him again.

      July 21, 2011 at 9:47 am |
    • Fupped Duck

      Typical Republican response...My way or to hell you go! Lighten up Francis....To each his own now leave me alone...

      July 21, 2011 at 9:52 am |
    • Veglvr

      So you think the bible is factual? Despite the centuries of editing, rewrites, and changes to suit the pope's control or financial needs, you still cling to this butchered manuscript as fact? Unbelievable. If the bible were in a loose leaf 3 ring binder, and every pope's changes, omissions, and additions were all on different colored pages, it would look like the sample book at Kinkos.

      It's hard to admit you've been lied to. I understand.

      Enjoy your fairy tale.

      July 21, 2011 at 10:12 am |
    • TrueReality

      CW – Don't be discouraged by all the hate and intolerance non-believers throw at you for being a Christian. Yes, at the name Jesus Christ every knee will bow and every mouth confess that he is Lord – but that won't happen just yet, not until the Last Day. For now, remember that the church of God on earth may shrink and be attacked on all sides, but it will never disappear. Read 2 Timothy 4, Romans 5, and 1 Peter 3. God bless you.

      July 21, 2011 at 10:27 am |
    • Amused

      Do you really believe that God himself actually wrote that words???? Seriously !! Are you sure it wasn't a person who wrote those words, and in fact wasn't it people who wrote every single word in every single holy book that exists on earth? Every one of these verses were written by human beings, nothing more, nothing less.

      July 21, 2011 at 10:48 am |
    • DamianKnight

      CW, maintain your belief. Keep strong with your faith, regardless of what others say. John 15:18-25.

      July 21, 2011 at 11:12 am |
    • awp1209

      @ Veglvr: I agree with the atheists/agnostics that using quotes from the Bible to prove God's existence will only fall on deaf ears for those who believe the Bible is fiction, but I think anyone who questions its preservation and accuracy is misinformed or has not done research on the topic. Believing and non-believing archeologists would both concede that the discrepencies between ancient manuscripts found very early (within a century of Jesus' death) and those found throughout the following centuries are negligible. Modern Bibles even point out most (or perhaps all) of these discripencies in the footnotes (for example, you could find a few places where a footnote says something like, "verses 7-12 are omitted from some early manuscripts," or "some early manuscripts use the word 'of' instead 'to' in verse 15.") Sure, there are translation inaccuracies, but it's not as if publishers are translating from Greek to Chinese to Russian to Old English to Modern English... every English translation is based on direct translation from the original Greek writing, from which multiple copies have been found that match each other to more than 99% accuracy (much better preserved and copied than, for example, the writings of Homer). I am speaking only of the New Testament of course... I'm less educated about the Old Testament's Hebrew manuscripts, other than to say I was impressed by the vast collection of them on display at the library in New York last fall when I visited. I think if you're arguing the invalidity of the Bible, it's hard to argue that it has been changed over the years. Try arguing that all of Jesus apostles got together to form one amazing genius lie that billions would believe just so they'd want to be better people and have hope for a heaven, or try arguing that the Bible was originally intended to be fiction, or try arguing that the original authors were all crazy nuts who still somehow put together a consistent story amongst them. But those are separate arguments altogether than whether or not the Bible has been corrupted and changed through the years. Yes, people misinterpret what the Bible means and use quotes from it wrongly... but the Bible itself warns against false teachers, so I hope that you and others would be able to separate the wrongdoing of some Christians from whether or not the Bible is accurate, or whether or not God exists. Research and read part of it for yourself with an open mind (as well as the Koran or other holy books if you wish), then form an opinion, rather than simply being reactionary against any Christians who may have offended you.

      July 21, 2011 at 12:11 pm |
    • Frogist

      @CW: Stop trolling. It migt be nice to have your actual opinion on the article. Rather than you picking fights so you can rehash the same things you always do.

      July 21, 2011 at 12:46 pm |
    • JohnR

      @TrueReality Hate and intolerance? Here's the pathetic Christian persecution complex in play once again.

      July 21, 2011 at 12:48 pm |
    • Tyler

      I don't know about you, but I think it is pretty strange that the only place "God" tells you things is in a 2000 year old storybook. If you want to prove your religion, use something other than its baseless book. kthanx

      July 21, 2011 at 4:12 pm |
    • Turtle

      Men wrote the Bible. The Church edited the Bible. So it is not the word of God. I believe Jesus was a great man who rose up to help his people during a time of oppression. Sadly no one walked behind him writing down every word he said so even his word in the Bible is full of the fallacy of man.

      People wouldn't rise up in protest against Christianity if Christians would get a grip on themselves and realize that they are not the one true religion. If people want to believe in a higher power they have the right to believe in any of them. Who cares who is right? Why worry about what happens after death if we cannot prove there is an after death? Live in the now, and be at peace now.

      Blessed be.

      July 24, 2011 at 9:50 am |
  7. John Richardson

    Atheist, Christians and the Elevation of Self: Christians love to accuse atheists and other non-believers of worshiping and aggrandizing the self over all else. I've never seen much evidence of that. Sure, there are egotistical atheists, but most I've met are anything but egotistical. What you see in Christians, however, is a willingness to bow down to (and accept as "savior") a god that they themselves believe has consigned billions of people to eternal torment, including many that individual Christians know and claim to love. And why would they do something so monstrous? To save their OWN soul from hell. That's all! And THAT is one of the most repulsive bits of self absorption and elevating the self over others that I have ever seen.

    July 21, 2011 at 8:30 am |
    • Frogist

      @John Richardson: Is it really egotism? I'm not so sure. What are the alternatives? How do you act selflessly in that situation? Rebel against God? Protest until He relents and accepts your family too? In a Christian's mind, the only thing left to do, since the system can't be changed, is minister to others so they become saved as well. That's an act of generosity to them. Keeping their ideas to themselves is more egotistic than sharing their 'secret'.
      I don't think it ever occurs to most that stepping away from Christianity and rejecting the system entirely is an option. They simply don't know that. Or won't accept it as viable. They are too afraid. I guess you could argue that fear is egotistic since it only matters to oneself. But I don't think that's necessarily what you meant. Is it?

      BTW That's a fascinating topic, but did you have an opinion on the article?

      July 21, 2011 at 1:06 pm |
    • JohnR

      Not so much egotism as craven self-interest. And if it doesn't occur to them to walk away in disgust, so much the worse.

      I brought this issue up since of late the Christians have been peppering every article, regardless of topic, with accusations that atheists are all about the self. As for THIS article, it's always good to see Christian back pedaling, even if its on a mere terminological point. But for Christians to admit that 'crusade' is a vexed term because the crusades were seriously creepy events, that's a good thing.

      July 21, 2011 at 2:25 pm |
  8. John Richardson

    IQs and religion: Kurt Goedel believed in a personal god. He is of course the world class genius who proved the incompleteness of arithmetic. He is also the paranoid idiot who basically starved himself to death out of fear that someone was trying to poison him. So which "aspect" of Kurt Goedel is the one who chose to cling to the notion of the existence of a personal god? Open discussion question!

    July 21, 2011 at 8:20 am |
    • Bruno

      Interesting point, John.

      Martin Gardner, unrelenting skeptic, columnist for Skeptical Inquirer, and debunker of pseudoscience, was a deist.

      July 21, 2011 at 12:24 pm |
    • JohnR

      Martin Gardner was quite likeable on many levels. He was in the minority amongst his skeptical friends with his Deism, but was obviously perfectly cool with that. He didn't try to cram his beliefs down anyone's throat, either. He was everything oen wishes spiritually inclined people would typically be, though most are not.

      July 21, 2011 at 12:53 pm |
    • Bruno

      Your example is tantalizing, indeed. One of the aspects of existence that inclines me toward belief in a transcendent, sentient reality that subsumes materiality is the paradoxical nature of mathematics itself.

      Certainly created by the animated, sentient clay wrought from nature, it corresponds so uncannily to the regularities of that very nature. Which suggests discovery.

      Of course, someone who starves himself to death to avoid being poisoned to death shares a horizon with those who hold beliefs that, in the words of Jacob Bronowski, partake of "no test in reality".

      July 21, 2011 at 4:07 pm |
  9. justathought

    @ Forest.......Forest, how long have you been a Christian? You are getting too up tight A Christian dosen't spew out such insulting language. There is no love in that. Go read Matt 5:44,45, then skip over to Matt 18:21,22, then turn back to Matt 6:14,15. Then consider some of the things you have said. God bless and watch over you. Your friend in Christ.

    July 21, 2011 at 1:08 am |
    • Athiest Guy

      Ok you need a life. Look at you quoting passages from old books of fiction that people stupidly center their whole life around. You need to spend your time doing more worthwhile things. Go be a good person. I think you can figure out how to do that without reading all your fancy passages in this old book of fiction.

      July 21, 2011 at 2:36 am |
    • SoundOfForest

      @Just-, thank you. I already did the passages long ago. Atheists, along with others, have rights to know the truth without a cover-up. I'm proud of my American Christians for being kind to the atheists in their land. I'm glad atheists never massacred anyone but unborn humans in USA for now. Please keep ministering to the atheists in USA. They need you.

      July 21, 2011 at 2:39 am |
    • Athiest Guy

      There's no massacre of unborn humans you dolt. If somebody gets pregnant accidentally, it's NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS what they do with their body and their body's creation. How DARE YOU tell somebody what to do with their lives. ITS NOT YOUR BUSINESS. BUTT THE HELL OUT.

      July 21, 2011 at 2:42 am |
    • SoundOfForest

      @Atheist-, unborn children are all of our responsibility, as any missing child is. We must save children from murderers.

      July 21, 2011 at 2:46 am |
    • SoundOfForest

      Jesus Christ, if you're going to mock me, at least get my name right you dirty Jew.

      July 21, 2011 at 9:01 am |
    • Laughing

      @ Forest,

      First of all, anti-semitism is pretty unwarrented, even when the person mocking you is being an as-shole about it. Secondly, how many children have you adopted in your life. You want to save the children right? Put your money where your mouth is, if you want these mothers to have these children and bring them fully to term then you should bear the burden instead of the governement. So I ask again, how many children have you adopted?

      July 21, 2011 at 9:58 am |
    • Bruno

      Anti-semitic bigotry, transgression of the third commandment, and transgression of the second great commandment all in one sentence.

      Very impressive, Forest!

      July 21, 2011 at 4:35 pm |
  10. Reality

    Donations fell from $9 million in 2008 to $5 million in 2009 as per IRS Form 990. Obviously, a secular name was in order to obscure the real mission of this group i.e. to continue to promote the flaws and falacies of Christianity.

    July 21, 2011 at 12:02 am |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      Huh? Please Reciprocate and Expound upon your Wordage

      July 21, 2011 at 12:18 am |
    • objecttothis

      Your data is a bit incomplete there. http://www.ecfa.org/MemberProfile.aspx?ID=4347 reports their revenue around 500 million and that hasn't really changed at all from 2008 through 2010. Cru doesn't seem to make any disguise about their objectives being to expose every person to the message that Jesus died that they could live in right relationship with God. I'm sad that your conclusion is that this message amounts to fallacies by Jesus. I hope that doesn't prevent you from investigating further.

      July 21, 2011 at 12:19 am |
    • Reality

      Oops, CCC does not report their total income to the IRS claiming to be a “Religious Missionary Order (RMO)" thereby one is unable to determine how much the Brights were being paid to promulgate the Christian con game on campuses. Ditto for Mr. Sellers. The EFCA does not provide compensation and salary specifics. As an example of two other Christian con artists, the Grahams get over a $1 million/yr in compensation from their "charities"

      The numbers previously noted were from the From 990 filed by one of the administration arms of the CCC which handles large donations and security gifts. Apparently, the CCC could not dodge the IRS with the RMO excuse for these types of donations. See guidestar.com.

      July 21, 2011 at 12:34 am |
    • Jesus

      It's all about the benjamins! Whatever name brings in the most money is the name they'll use.

      July 21, 2011 at 12:03 pm |
  11. Richard S Kaiser

    Chris Hitchens wrote “Academia and religion are not a good mix. Trying to tell people that humans only existed for 8,000 years, human coexistence with dinosaurs is nonfiction (what a joke), snakes can talk, snakes eat dust, plants can live without sunlight, children can be older then their parents, unicorns existed, giants existed, a human can live in a whale's digestive track, talking to imaginary friends solves problems, the oldest person that ever lived was 969 when he died etc... If god is perfect than how come the bible is retarded literature? The same goes for all religious scriptures not just Christianity”

    Academia without Religious Scruples and Religious Morals Goes Nowhere and Reaches the Deadening of Civility and Righteous Prosperity. To Believe that the Roman Catholic Church is Christ’s Mothered Church and All Christian Churches are Christ’s Wives is how One should Perceive the Religious Veracity of. After all, Most Nations, Countries and States are Being Elevated with Tv’s Portrayals of Myriads of Good and Bad or Righteous and Religious Stories Emulating to the Masses and for what Purposes? Surely One Must Admit Religious Stories Have a Place in Tv Espionage!

    July 21, 2011 at 12:01 am |
    • Honey, AvdBerg is at the door again.

      Care to tell us what drugs you are on ?

      July 21, 2011 at 8:00 am |
  12. gozer

    Any college student who is actually stupid enough to fall for this crusade and the god fraud that it attempts to sell should not be granted a degree.

    July 20, 2011 at 11:49 pm |
    • objecttothis

      gozer if God is a fraud then I and the millions of other Jesus followers have wasted our lives, but your argument is curious since there are literally dozens of men and women with dozens of letters after their name who have looked at the case for Jesus and followed it with their whole hearts. Are you that certain that so many men and women with IQ's considerably higher than ours are that stupid?

      July 20, 2011 at 11:54 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Belief does not make anything real. Popularity doesn't make anything real. However, growing up in a certain culture can make people believe in a certain way. There is not a single shred of evidence that any god ever existed, therefore belief in a god is more emotional than rational.

      July 21, 2011 at 12:35 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      That argument is called the "Appeal to Popularity" fallacy. How about addressing the real issues ?

      July 21, 2011 at 5:06 am |
    • Bucky Ball

      it's also called credentialism, and appeal to authority

      July 21, 2011 at 5:12 am |
    • gozer

      objecttothis, yes, you have wasted that part of your life consumed by your stupid superst-ition.

      Furthermore, as noted by other posters, you need to gain an understanding of common fallacies, since your post is a fine demonstration of ad populism. Such an understanding, once gained (if you can) should enable you to escape your particular god fraud and cult.

      July 21, 2011 at 9:19 am |
    • Rbnlegnd101

      Objecttothis, there are a billion or more christians, muslims, and hindus. Only one of those groups could possibly be right, the others have all wasted their lives on their beliefs. Each group has scholars with massive credentials who have spent their lives studing their conflicting faiths. There are hundreds of millions who practice chinese traditional faiths, buddhism, and aftrican tribal religions, and they also can not all be "right".

      The devout believe in one god, and disbelieve all the others. The athiest has more in common with the devout than he has in conflict, they agree on all but one of world's faiths.

      As for myself, I don't know, but I am pretty sure no one book can describe the divine.

      July 21, 2011 at 10:42 am |
    • Jesus

      Gozer, you are absolutely correct. If any college student after 4 years of study can't logically draw the obvious conclusions after reading the Bible and studying its history, then a degree should not be awarded.

      July 21, 2011 at 9:05 pm |
  13. Richard S Kaiser

    I don't Know for sure if I will be allowed to Post This but "Here Goes".

    On Tuesday, July 19th, 2011, I was watching I Think, The Church Channel's Live Airing of a CUFI Conference. There were; again I think, over 3,000 people in attendance. CUFI stands for Christians United Fro Israel. I sure hope it gets Aired Again! Their Web Address is cufi.org

    July 20, 2011 at 11:43 pm |
    • gozer

      Any college student stupid enough to fall for this crusade and the god fraud that it attempts to sell should not be granted a degree.

      July 20, 2011 at 11:48 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      gozer wrote: "Any college student stupid enough to fall for this crusade and the god fraud that it attempts to sell should not be granted a degree." July 20, 2011 at 11:48 pm

      The "Stupidity" is On You gozer! Today's Emersing of College Christians are gathering their Flocks together To Reshape the Very Fabrics of Our End Times! Although the Needed Money from Private Backers need be In Secret to Protect those who Donate from the Villainous Branches who would sooner cut these Branches Off!

      July 21, 2011 at 12:09 am |
  14. Magic

    SoundofForest: "Atheists regard life as nothing."

    Atheists regard life very highly. It's all there is. It is a pity that you are so filthy and fearful and greedy that you must have MORE beyond it.... and not only more, but a PERFECT more at that.

    July 20, 2011 at 11:11 pm |
    • SoundOfForest

      An atheist regards highly of his own life only, no one else's. In reality, believers in next life always rescue present life much more than atheists do.

      July 21, 2011 at 2:49 am |
    • Frogist

      @SoundofForest: I could talk about using blanket statements and verifiable proof of what you say. But I know you won't listen. You will just keep spreading your lies and exaggerations to further your cause. Instead I will ask this: How is spreading lies about atheists showing love to them?

      July 21, 2011 at 2:37 pm |
  15. tallulah13

    They'd probably get more people showing up if they called it "kegger".

    July 20, 2011 at 11:03 pm |
    • objecttothis

      You're probably right but then people would probablly feel pretty bait and switched when they turned around and told him they needed Jesus, a wine drinker.

      July 20, 2011 at 11:41 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Yeah, but they might change their mind if Jesus shows up and turns water into wine. Always popular at parties.

      July 20, 2011 at 11:52 pm |
    • objecttothis

      haha, good one! kegger it is, I'll call cru tomorrow and tell them to change it. I'm pretty sure that water into wine thing was one of Jesus' favs.

      July 20, 2011 at 11:55 pm |
  16. Chris Hitchens

    Academia and religion are not a good mix. Trying to tell people that humans only existed for 8,000 years, human coexistence with dinosaurs is nonfiction (what a joke), snakes can talk, snakes eat dust, plants can live without sunlight, children can be older then their parents, unicorns existed, giants existed, a human can live in a whale's digestive track, talking to imaginary friends solves problems, the oldest person that ever lived was 969 when he died etc... If god is perfect than how come the bible is retarded literature? The same goes for all religious scriptures not just christianity.

    July 20, 2011 at 10:42 pm |
    • Chelsea

      Every piece of literature is written in the context of its time and should be interpreted as so. While some people take the Bible and read it very literally, others read it as poetry, stories, reasons for faith in a God who delivers on His promises. The whole point of the Bible is not to be an exceptionally detailed account of the history of the universe, rather it is to show how humans have always failed to live perfectly, and have thus always needed someone to rescue them from themselves. Stories of sacrifice were meant to show that a greater, infinite in fact, sacrifice was needed to rectify the chasm between us and our creator. The Bible serves to deliver the greatest news of all time - that God loves you to the depths of forever and has been on mission just as long to rescue you - a fact that is easily swept aside when you're focusing on the literal nature of ancient, over-translated texts.

      July 20, 2011 at 11:30 pm |
    • objecttothis

      Cru hasn't said anything about the age of the earth but simply the need for every man to have a personal relationship with the infinite God of the Universe; the God of the Bible through Jesus of Nazareth. I'm sorry if you got mixed messages before but I think academia just as next as the demographic needs to hear it.

      July 20, 2011 at 11:38 pm |
    • frank

      Your God is like a methed-out stepfather who beats your mother, molests you, stomps your new puppy to death, and wears a "World's #1 Dad" t-shirt.

      July 20, 2011 at 11:47 pm |
    • objecttothis

      Wow Frank. Sorry you feel that way. Especially considering my God willingly faced the death penalty in your place knowing that you'd insult him like you have. He's still willing for you to accept him.

      July 20, 2011 at 11:50 pm |
    • frank

      Even if I believed that ludicrous tale, which I don't, I did nothing to deserve the death penalty; this notion of inherited sin is putrid and ignorant; and I would never accept–even if he existed– a god who makes Charles Manson look sweet and reasonable by compare. In fact, I would spit in his baby-slaughtering face.

      July 21, 2011 at 12:16 am |
    • Laughing


      You vitreol aside you're hilarious! "Your God is like a methed-out stepfather who beats your mother, molests you, stomps your new puppy to death, and wears a "World's #1 Dad" t-shirt." Seriously Priceless

      @ Chelsea
      If only you were right, but I have a question for you. If the bible really is just a collection of stories and poetry and not supposed to be anything else, then why not just read Aesop's Fables with the same leal and fervor? Is it because that has the word fables in it? The way you described it, the bible is just a book from long away (which it is) which is nice to have as a way to connect to the past and use some of the morals that go along with it. It's power should be about on par with The Odyssey. If that is the case, I look forward to working with you on teaching the rest of the christians (and other believers out there) the truth in that they need to stop using this book as anything more than just that, a book.

      July 21, 2011 at 10:19 am |
    • awp1209

      It this THE Chris Hitchens? I thought you spent your time writing and engaging in intellectual, respectful debates with Christians about God's existence, not trolling message boards.

      July 21, 2011 at 1:36 pm |
    • Frogist

      @Chelsea: A thought just occurred to me. If any other book was written explaining how blacks or women or gays or what have you "have always failed to live perfectly, and have thus always needed someone to rescue them from themselves" we would decry it as racist, se-xist, hom-ophobic etc etc... Any book that is as anti-autonomy as this one would not be welcomed. Yet this one's just fine with most. I find it odd.

      July 21, 2011 at 3:14 pm |
  17. blessed

    Instead of cru, they should call it the Campus COALITION for Christ. That way people would be joining something that sounds strong but still friendly.

    July 20, 2011 at 10:03 pm |
    • objecttothis

      Hey that's a good idea and point, but Cru is not just college campuses any longer but it contains ministries that span anything from athletics to families to ethnic ministries and international ministries.

      July 20, 2011 at 11:39 pm |
    • Rbnlegnd101

      It does seem wierd that they retained the one word that is most objectionable from the old name. If the old name had a perception problem because of the word "crusade", which makes sense, why change the name to a shortened form of the word "crusade"?

      July 21, 2011 at 10:50 am |
  18. bbg


    July 20, 2011 at 9:09 pm |
  19. SoundOfForest

    Salvation Army had a trouble, too, because of the word "army." I hope and pray CCC will make it to the Middle East; the people there need it. Those missions have been a blessing all over the world. Missions are both British and America's greatest treasure and con-tri-bution for the world. True history changers and heroes on the planet!

    July 20, 2011 at 9:05 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      Hello SoundOfForest,

      Last Tuesday, 07/19/11, in the evening hours I watched , "I Think" The Church Channel airing a LIVE Conference regarding CUFI, Christians United For Israel. Their web address is cufi.org

      July 20, 2011 at 11:20 pm |
    • SoundOfForest

      Richard, thank you, but I'm independent : )

      July 21, 2011 at 2:31 am |
  20. frank

    Their cru is wack.

    July 20, 2011 at 9:01 pm |
    • SoundOfForest

      Atheists have nothing worth to say.

      July 20, 2011 at 9:07 pm |
    • David Johnson


      You said: "Atheists have nothing worth to say."

      Sure we do. The problem is, believers are to deluded to listen.


      July 20, 2011 at 9:38 pm |
    • SoundOfForest

      David, you don't. Atheists have no logic or morality. Self is your filthy, supreme god. You will go where self's stupidity leads unless you repent and acknowledge the true Creator God. And atheists' imaginations and languages are the filthiest. Atheists regard life as nothing.

      July 20, 2011 at 10:36 pm |
    • objecttothis

      I'm not sure either the atheists or the theists in this conversation are actually listening to each other. SoundOfForest, I'm not sure you're going to win an audience with anyone by starting with an insult to their intelligence or desire for truth. David, I am a follower of Jesus and I try to listen very hard when people engage honestly in dialog about their beliefs so please try not to make blanket statement like SoundOfForest has done.

      July 20, 2011 at 11:45 pm |
    • Free

      While individual morality is best measured case-by-case with atheists, as with the religious as well, logical thinking is more of an atheist trademark. Within our own company we are not shy about picking apart each other's reasoning. In what possible way can you describe atheists as being illogical compared to religious folks?

      July 20, 2011 at 11:53 pm |
    • Michaela

      I would like to apologize on behalf of all people who truly follow the Bible and it's teachings. What he has said is not true of anything stated in the bible and is some delusion idea he has come up with to make himself look better. I sincerely hope that the opinions of the above person do not hinder your views of all church-goers, I promise we are not all that uneducated. From what I can see from these posts both Frank and David seem intelligent and to insult them only makes yourself look stupid Sound of Forest. I am appalled that you think you have any right speaking lies into these men's life. As a Christ-follower I was embarrassed and offended to read your comments Sound of Forest, and I ask you read the words of Jesus Christ before making statements like you did above. If any of you would like to continue this discussion please let me know.

      July 21, 2011 at 1:25 am |
    • SoundOfForest

      @Object-, I'm not here to win audience but to give a balanced view and objective reality. @Michaela, you just proved my point. Christians never disguise themselves to be something else but atheists do it all the time, because their conscience is dead. Learn proper capitalization of the English language first if you are an English native when you want to pretend to be a Christian.

      July 21, 2011 at 2:29 am |
    • Q

      @SOF – You offer neither a "balanced view" nor anything remotely resembling "objective reality", e.g. your statement: "Atheists have no logic or morality." (both of which are demonstrably false)...

      July 21, 2011 at 2:34 am |
    • SoundOfForest

      Q, but that's what the Bible says. And it's true. You guys are also thieves, pretending to be the owner of the planet. Mankind is not the owner; the reason there will be Accountability Day. Americans were more honest in former days, hardly making any debts from stupidity.

      July 21, 2011 at 2:43 am |
    • Q

      "Q, but that's what the Bible says. And it's true." No, it is not. Again, your response is neither "balanced" nor a reflection of "objective reality". And you would criticize others for misrepresentation? Laughable...

      July 21, 2011 at 2:48 am |
    • Q

      @SOF – Are you the person who has posted under various names, e.g. Adelina, etc?

      July 21, 2011 at 2:51 am |
    • SoundOfForest

      @Q, it's a fact atheists are evil. The Bible always describes facts. USA is one of the few nations that was spared from atheism's full-blown crimes. That's why you guys are living in fantasies. Yes, I was Justina – Odessa and FairGarden – SoundOfForest. Atheists disguise and do the most stupid things using my user names. I had to change my handle often. I'm thinking about quitting or reducing blogging lately, because you stupid American atheists never learn anything.

      July 21, 2011 at 3:00 am |
    • Q

      @SOF (or whatever) – You speak as if you have authority when you have none. Not even a remote understanding of topics upon which you arrogantly make comments.

      You invited the responses and the fake posters given your behaviors. I told you as much. I suggested you humble yourself and you've continued to confuse your belief with knowledge. You've persisted in avoiding any real dialogue by demonizing any and all contradictions (with never a rational response offered).

      My advice is you should quit and reflect upon your behaviors which have (rightly) engendered both ridicule and disdain. It's not that atheists never learn, it's that you have absolutely nothing to teach. You are the personification of the arrogance Augustine wrote about when he penned:

      "Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion."

      You are an anti-evangelical and you are too proud and too ignorant to know you disgrace yourself and your faith.

      July 21, 2011 at 3:13 am |
    • SoundOfForest

      Q, I told you to make shorter comments because I don't usually read your lengthy garbages. Tell your points to your fellow atheists. They need those. And write your own sentences.

      July 21, 2011 at 3:22 am |
    • SoundOfForest

      @Q: All truth is God's truth whether discovered by Christians or non-believers. Pioneer science and scientific thinking developed only in Christendom, only among the Europeans and Americans who got educated by the academic discipline that the Bible required for mankind. Q, you should direct your frustration over injustice against your fellow atheists. You atheists unreasonablly bash Christians like hell but you can't stand a single fact-telling about your atheism or atheists. Why don't you register atheism as a religion? That'll be some honesty.

      July 21, 2011 at 4:00 am |
    • News Flash

      Not to worry about SoundofForest
      She has been ranting here for years, and most of us pay no attention to anything she says. Just scroll past and move on.
      Proverbs 26:4 " Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him." (NKJV)

      July 21, 2011 at 5:36 am |
    • Rbnlegnd101

      Forest: You are not here to win an audience, you are here to testify. So long as you can speak your piece in a public place and get a reaction from people, you are content. Good for you. Hope it works out, and god gives you a golden ticket for your efforts.

      July 21, 2011 at 10:47 am |
    • Free

      "I would like to apologize on behalf of all people who truly follow the Bible and it's teachings."
      The problem with that statement is that everyone believes they follow the 'true' interpretation of the Bible, including whoever you happen to be finding objection to here. That's why declaring the Bible as some kind of absolute authority ultimately fails. Like art, people tend to see what they want in it and, sometimes, what they see isn't universally beautiful.

      July 21, 2011 at 12:37 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.