July 25th, 2011
11:13 AM ET
Is 'Christian fundamentalist' label correct for Norway terror suspect?
By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor
(CNN) - Given initial suspicions that Friday's bombing and mass shooting in Norway were carried out by Islamic militants linked to al Qaeda, the way police ended up describing the suspect behind the attacks came as a big surprise even to many security experts: The alleged attacker was called a "Christian fundamentalist."
But experts on European politics and religion say that the Christian fundamentalist label could overstate the extent to which the suspect, Anders Behring Breivik - who has told authorities that he carried out the attacks - was motivated by religion, and the extent to which he is tied to a broader religious movement.
"It is true that he sees himself as a crusader and some sort of Templar knight," said Marcus Buck, a political science professor at Norway's University of Tromso, referring to an online manifesto that Breivik appears to have authored and which draws inspiration from medieval Christian crusaders.
My Take: Norway attacks shows terrorism isn't just Islamic
"But he doesn't seem to have any insight into Christian theology or any ideas of how the Christian faith should play any role in Norwegian or European society," Buck wrote in an email message. "His links to Christianity are much more based on being against Islam and what he perceives of as 'cultural Marxism.'"
From what the 1,500-page manifesto says, Breivik appears to have been motivated more by an extreme loathing of European multiculturalism that has accompanied rapid immigration from the developing world, and of the European Union's growing powers, than by Christianity.
"My impression is that Christianity is used more as a vehicle to unjustly assign some religious moral weight," to his political views, said Anders Romarheim, a fellow at the Norwegian Institute for Defence Studies. "It is a signifier of Western culture and values, which is what they pretend to defend."
"I would say they are more anti-Islam than pro-Christian," Romarheim said in reference to what appear to be Breivik's views.
The manifesto is religion-obsessed in that it rants for long stretches against Muslims and their growing presence in Europe.
Who is Anders Behring Breivik?
It calls for a European civil war to overthrow governments, end multiculturalism and execute "cultural Marxists." The manifesto includes a link to a video asserting that the majority of Europe's population will be Muslim by 2050 "unless we manage to defeat the ruling Multiculturalist Alliance."
The author of the document identifies himself as Breivik, but CNN could not independently verify that he wrote the document, and Norwegian authorities would not confirm that the man in their custody wrote the manifesto, saying it was part of their investigation
Opposition to booming Muslim immigration to Europe, exacerbated by high birth rates in the Muslim community, has become a mainstay of Europe's burgeoning far-right, helping right-wing parties gain seats in parliaments across the continent.
But those right-wing movements are mostly secular. Europe's hard right does not have deep ties to Christianity in the way that the United States' conservative movement is entwined with evangelical Christianity and other theologically conservative religious movements.
A far-right comeback in Europe
Recently adopted European laws aimed at curbing Islam's public visibility, including France's new burqa ban and Switzerland ban on minarets - towers that a part of mosques - were secular causes, not ones championed by Christian interests. Many Christian groups oppose such bans.
"The bulk of the anti-Muslim sentiment is not against Muslims as such, but is a secular rejection of how some Muslims allegedly want to place Islam at the center of society," Buck said. "It is more anti-religious than anti-Muslim."
Breivik's apparent manifesto, by contrast, cites biblical verses to justify violence for political ends.
"Clearly, this is not a pacifist God we serve," it says. "It's God who teaches our hands to war and our fingers to fight. Over and over again throughout the Old Testament, His people are commanded to fight with the best weapons available to them at that time."
"The biggest threat to Europe is the cultural Marxist/multiculturalist political doctrine of 'extreme egalitarian emotionalism,'" the manifesto goes on. "This type of political stance involves destroying Christendom, the Church, our European cultures and identities and opening up our borders to Islamic colonization."
The video that's linked to in the manifesto also includes some religious language: "Celebrate us, the martyrs of the conservative revolution, for we will soon dine in the Kingdom of Heaven."
Experts on religion in Europe said those faith-infused views are likely peculiar to the suspected gunman and do not appear reflect wider religious movements, even as they echoes grievances of Europe's right-wing political groups.
"He was a flaky extremist who might as well have claimed to be fighting for the honor of Hogwarts as for the cause of Christ," said Philip Jenkins, a Pennsylvania State University professor who studies global religion and politics, describing the suspected Norway attacker. "He did not represent a religious movement. ... People should not follow that Christian fundamentalist red herring."
At the same time, Breivik told investigators during interviews that he belongs to an international order, The Knights Templar, according to Norwegian newspaper VG, which cited unnamed sources.
He described the organization as an armed Christian order, fighting to rid the West of Islamic suppression, the newspaper said. He also told investigators he had been in contact with like-minded individuals and said he counts himself as a representative of this order, it said.
For many in Norway, the potential implications of the suspected killer's religion are still settling in.
"This is the first time we've heard of Christianity/religion as a driving force behind right-wing extremism," Buck said. "The mainstream right-wing movements in the Nordic countries (very small and disorganized groups in Norway) would generally point to the Old Norse beliefs, if anything."
"Norwegian, Nordic and European society," he said, "were totally unprepared for a violent attack from someone who calls himself Christian."
About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.
Anders Behring Breivik lives in (and was born in) a Christian nation. He is probably baptized and confirmed, and he has obviously read the Bible and he makes references to its teachings. In what way is this person not a Christian? Yes, a majority of Christians might not agree with his actions in defense of Christianity (and his wish for Norway and Europe to stay purely Christian), but that does not make him less Christian in the same way it doesn't make him less Norwegian.
For those that believe Anders Behring Breivik cannot be a Christian simply because Christians do not kill other people for bad reasons are clearly delusional (I am not even going to mention the overwhelming amount of counter examples throughout history). The reason people have a general reluctance to kill each other is not because of religion (again, history points to the contrary)- it is because it is not in people's interests to do so (how long would humans have lasted as a species if killing each other was the general solution to problems?).
Science has long ago established that our morals evolved with our brains, and so did our reluctance to killing each other (which doesn't say we do not come up with excuses to do so quite frequently). So the reason why we despise these kinds of acts is not because we are Christians, or adhere to any other religion-it is because we are humans. In fact, I would say that it is encouraging that our humanity stops us from killing each other more often due to our delusional religious teachings which often encourages murder, e.g., Deuteronomy 13:12-16 to take one example. Now, some of you will object and say that the Old Testament is not representative of Christian beliefs, but by which moral standard can you make that claim? It is clearly not any God's standard, because in that case what book or scripture of his/her can you point to that decides what to cherry pick from the Bible? So, clearly, we have intrinsic moral values devoid of any deity or God-how else would we be able to judge what is right and wrong in, e.g., the Bible? Our intrinsic moral values can be corrupted by ideology, religion, mental illness and other things, and no matter what the case is for Anders Behring Breivik, it is pretty clear that his Christian faith didn't help. Rather, it was one of his motivations.
Eric, please correct me if I make any incorrect judgments here, however your response to the Deuteronomy passage is based on a predication, and that is that God does not exist, therefore he is not worthy of worship. If we move on from this assumption then the text's are actually written by Humans in an effort to wipe out any resistance to their religious systems of control and as such are evidently evil.
Now, humor me, say we move on from the presupposition that God does exist, is holy, abhor's rejection of him, 'sin'. IF someone in America commits a crime of large severity they are put to death for their actions. Let us say that these people reject God, is not within his right as creator to punish these people for rejecting him??
He was a member of the Church of Norway, the official lutheran evangelical State church of Norway.
You obviously do not know what a Christian is. It has nothing at all to do with how you were raised. It has everything to do with whether or not you are a disciple of Jesus and if you abide by the teachings. Do you honestly think Jesus would say "Yes, he is one of my faithful followers"? If not, then he is not a Christian. It's not rocket science.
Mattnexus, my point with the comment on the Deuteronomy passage was 1) to give one example of a passage that incites violence, and 2) to point out the cherry picking going on among Christians and therefore the intrinsic moral values they must posses to do the picking. These two points do not presuppose anything about the existence or non-existence of a God. If God did exist (despite no scientific evidence of it) and the Bible is true, then he would clearly be a jealous and narcissistic God and I personally would rather stay clear of him altogether. You ask whether such heresy should allow him to punish me? Well, clearly the Bible tells us that he prefers that others do his dirty work, so it should be, e.g., you that should strike me down. If you think that this is a good moral standard to live by, then you are not much better then Anders Behring Breivik himself.
If you were born in, e.g., India, what would be the chances you were Christian? Being Christian has everything to do with how you were raised (and where you were born). If you were raised a Muslim, I think the chances of you being a Christian would be slim to none. You say that being a Christian is about abiding to the teachings of Jesus, well then what are the parts of the Bible that doesn't mention him or his teachings about? And, by what authority can you simply ignore most of the Bible's teachings and only cherry pick the Jesus-related stuff? Still, I applaud your good judgement to cast away the obviously morally depraved parts of the Bible to focus on the "good stuff". But that simply reinforces my previous point about our intrinsic moral values, which really means there is no need for a God or a book to make us "good".
Just like the muslims, the christians be in denial of their terrorist religion.
Can you point to any Scriptures in the New Testament that promote terrorism? Don't forget that the example of hypocrites does not define a religion.
Well, this is just the same arguments that muslims have tried to come forward with when there has been terrorism in the name of Islam.................And of course it is true that terrorists have "used" religion to boost themselves or others into action when the real motive is political. Most of the "muslim" terrorists I feel also have a political motive for their terrorist attacks, which in turn have back-fired on regular, fairly secular muslims that only happen to share the same religion...
I have not ever com across a person who have an atheist who have killed in the name of atheism though, I am an atheist and guess killing for not believing in fairy tales is not an option (Yes I know Stalin was an atheist, but his murders were purely political, he never denied it or tried to hang it on some bronze age mythology)
Atheism can hide behind the musk of theism to pass on their political views which they can not achieve through atheism alone...
"Impression is that Religion is used more as a vehicle to unjustly assign some religious moral weight," to support political views".
Muneef : I do not understand what you mean by "achieved through atheism alone", the hole concept of atheism is NOT believing in any invisible, bystanding force that never has been observed..............When fundamentalists get support by ignorant people, it is fuled by believing strongly IN something, not believing will never fuel the same kind of rage, nor can it be used to manipulate people into evil acts. Nobody kills for nothing.... Atheism leaves only human thinking, best represented by science, philosophy and humanism.
We are told;
Zionists are of Jewish and Christian Atheists,.
We are told;
Zionists are of Jewish and Christian Atheists,. Therefore are able to play with both strings Atheism and Theism to pass on their political views..
Clearly, this mass murderer is not a Christian. Only the "news" media would add "Christian" to the murderer's fundamentalist label. If a person came to your home at 11pm at night, knocked on your door, and claimed to be the police, would you believe him? And what if you turned on your porch light and clearly see that he is not a cop, nor displays a badge, would you think he's a cop? Likewise, just because someone claims to be a Christian or somehow claims to admire certain historical Christian groups like the Knights Templar doesn't automatically make him a Christian. Even a 1st grader can tell you that. Compare this demonic murderer's life with that of Jesus Christ, then ask yourself if Breivik is a Christian.
Yes, Jesus Christ, the delusional man who lied about performing miracles, and didn't see anything wrong with slavery. If you were to add a book to the Bible, don't you think you update its morality? I mean, really. These people knew NOTHING; they were primitive, ruthless men who advocated murdering people for the most ridiculous of actions. Educate yourself...
It was political balancing between powers and religions ... Read the post below for more;
In reply to John,
I think Jesus did reject slavery. After all did Jesus advocate salvation for Free men alone?? No , he taught salvation for all men, as God loved all men. If you look at the writings of paul, yes I am aware he is not Jesus, you will see that paul teaches that there is neither slave nor free, jew nor gentile, all are one in Christ Jesus. It can be said that Jesus came for a purpose which was to save mankind from our greatest problem, having accomplished that he left, allowing his followers to take his teachings on (which as I'm sure many will say resulted in the Crusades, which I personally do not believe are a natural extension of his teachings) Jesus left us to implement his message of love for all which would, eventually lead to William Wilberforce's actions.
Just some of my thoughts, you are of course welcome to your own.
According to your logic, there is not one single Christian in the USA alive today. Maybe not in the world. According to your logic, no muslim, jew or christian ever committed a murder because "thou shalt not kill" is a commandment - ergo if they have killed they are not jew, christian or muslim. Your logic is not just ridiculous, but non-existent (oh, just like god!).
Just occurred to me that this whole man show about Islam & Muslims was simply executed as a Sign of the Rejection of "Turkey" from joining the European League...am sure he does not mind Islam but not that of "Turkey" as a Race and Religion.... Seems some big one's mind the joining of "Turkey" and that is why all this pressure applied to make Muslims life more difficult in Europe with so many regulations... Some are taking into consideration the balance of powers and religions...
Why can't Europe say no to America if do not want the joining of "Turkey" to League...why buy time prolonging with excuses and conditions while from inside they fight any thing called Islamic from appearance to rituals...?!
Europe's Muslim Capital
No European capital was more cosmopolitan than Constantinople. Its geographical position across the main route between Europe and Asia, its port ‘the finest and most secure I have ever seen’, in the words of the Sieur de Combes in 1688, made it the natural capital of Anatolia, the Balkans and beyond. In its last centuries as capital of the Byzantine Empire, it was not only the holy city of the Orthodox world, dedicated to the Mother of God, but also a cosmopolitan trading centre, with Venetian, Genoese, Muslim, Jewish, Slav and Avar inhabitants.
Why Europe can not say openly no to Joining the European Unity nor can let go;
Turkey has dominated European politics for centuries. Turkey was a superpower previously when the Ottoman’s managed to unite many of the lands around Western Turkey. They removed the Byzantine Empire as the world’s superpower and menaced Europe for centuries. In 1453 the Ottoman’s concluded the conquest of Constantinople, the Byzantine capital. This brought to an end all remnants of Roman rule, who had been the world’s superpower for nearly four centuries.
To be or not to be?
Arguments for and against Turkey joining the EU
In or Out? The red-hot Turkey issue
The argument has raged for 45 years over whether Turkey should become part of Europe, ever since it signed an Association Agreement in 1963 as a first step toward membership. European opinion remains as divided as ever, and we briefly summarize here the main pros and cons.
FOR Turkey joinig the EU
AGAINST Turkey joinig the EU
Why are so quick to label this nut as not representative of Christianity, but any clown who claims to act in the name of Islam, we instantly label as Muslim and automatically is assumed to be representative of all Muslims?
Because Islam advocates killing non believers where Christ preached to love the sinner, hate the sin. To follow Islam you must accept all the teachings including the requirement to kill. There is no such requirement in Christianity.
The Norway suspect is clearly NOT a Christian of any ilk.... (as if there were more than one)
Only Christian fundamentalists will protect Israel from the evil mankind.
Invisible workers on both sides
Choose the hills or tides
Hunker down for the reception of deception.
So bizarre; So hard to believe,
Much less understand the thief,
The old serpent-liar
All over the media
Transcends the Lyre
Of ancient media, Tyre.
Night grows close,
Another day goes.
Thunderstorm and tornado
Not the usual Toronto.
Yet, Global warming near alarming
Still the old hegemony.
How to still the tide of disorder
To the New World Order?
I love you my brother and I peace for you. Hope the world is in a right track according to the Will of Father!
open http://quran.com/5/51 Look for all transliteration:
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoola tattakhithoo alyahooda wannasaraawliyaa baAAduhum awliyao baAAdinwaman yatawallahum minkum fa-innahu minhum inna Allaha layahdee alqawma aththalimeen
O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you – then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust).
O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
O you who have believed, do not take to yourselves the Jews and the Nasara (Christians) as patrons; some of them are patrons to some (others). And whoever of you patronizes them, then surely he is one of them. Surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
The verse is correct or do you deny that you hate Muslims...do you deny that the Christian world in America and Europe are Closer Allies to Israels andi Jews more than they are to Muslims?...after all Children of Irael were one tribe and had nearly the same Holy books... So what seems to been wrong here?
We only show the truth here. The reader is a mature and smart peoples. They can read. Afterall we only want to love muslims thats why we show to muslim this verses. Repent O my brother...
Islam must believe trinity: Islam Quran use name "WE" mean there is more than 1 in one – trinity. This is not angels or jin because THEY ordered all angels. Of course this is not charlie angels..hahaha..lol..lol..
Walaqad khalaqnakum thumma sawwarnakumthumma qulna lilmala-ikati osjudoo li-adamafasajadoo illa ibleesa lam yakun mina assajideen
And We have certainly created you, [O Mankind], and given you [human] form. Then We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was not of those who prostrated.
And surely, We created you (your father Adam) and then gave you shape (the noble shape of a human being), then We told the angels, "Prostrate to Adam", and they prostrated, except Iblis (Satan), he refused to be of those who prostrate.
And We created you, then fashioned you, then told the angels: Fall ye prostrate before Adam! And they fell prostrate, all save Iblis, who was not of those who make prostration.
It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels prostrate to Adam, and they prostrate; not so Iblis; He refused to be of those who prostrate.
And certainly We created you, then We fashioned you, then We said to the angels: Prostrate to Adam. So they did prostrate except Iblis; he was not of those who prostrated.
And indeed We already created you, thereafter We fashioned you, thereafter We said to the Angels, "Prostrate to Adam;" so they prostrated, except Iblis; he was not of the prostrators.
We as said by Kings and Queens as well as the possibility of Arch angels
Islam teach hatred and terror:
Sanulqee fee quloobi allatheenakafaroo arruAAba bima ashrakoo billahima lam yunazzil bihi sultanan wama/wahumu annaruwabi/sa mathwa aththalimeen
We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down [any] authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers.
We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they joined others in worship with Allah, for which He had sent no authority; their abode will be the Fire and how evil is the abode of the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers).
We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve because they ascribe unto Allah partners, for which no warrant hath been revealed. Their habitation is the Fire, and hapless the abode of the wrong-doers.
Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!
We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.
We will soon cast in (to) the hearts of the ones who have disbelieved horror for whatever they associated with Allah for which He has not sent down an all-binding authority; and their abode will be the Fire, and miserable is the lodging of the unjust!
You mean Terror and horror like your "Knight Templar !?
Who has given him the T-i-tle of Knights_Templar?
Who other than the Country where the Templar Exist (Israel)...or it's Lords (Zionists)...only they can since we know that the Catholic Church wouldn't after all it was the Catholic Church who ended their legend.....
This operation is having other fingers behind it that has brainwashed and inspired this man to pull such act...some how feel because Oslo is connected with some agreements between Israelis and Palestinians and those both are heavily connected to the Legend of the "Knights_Templar.....
Sure such propaganda adopted might be in many of European and American states as to call against multi culture systems and mostly related to Muslims presence in those countries which were called being as Jewish owned lands..!
Who created Islamphobia and why;
Whom ever drained the USSR in Afghanistan,today is draining the USA...in addition to Iraq...
While Euro Zone is being drained by Libya war..
As seems the (NATO) is at it's last moments...at the quick sands...got it self in a mess in fears of the nightmares they have created for them selves...until they became to doubt and fear Muslims or MidEasterns living among their Multi cultured (NATO) countries...
The communists-phobia now became Islam-phobia.....seems there should always be a phobia of some sort....they can't live with out phobia to keep them awake...
It is more like bringing cats to chase the mice and when the cats becomes a nuisance they bring dogs to chase it out and so on...!
Well who ever saw it was for his advantage to creat Islam-phobia against the communists....today is creating a Christian-phobia to confront the Islam-phobia....wonder if all that serves interests of some body...? I mean does it serve the Jews or the Zionists or (Atheists)....?
Who created Muslim phobia? The Muslims via the following acts of terror and horror:
The Muslim Conquest of India – 11th to 18th century
■"The likely death toll is somewhere between 2 million and 80 million. The geometric mean of those two limits is 12.7 million. "
and the 19 million killed in the Mideast Slave Trade 7C-19C by Muslims.
and more recently
1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured
1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh
2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured
3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US troops killed in action, 3,483 and 925 in non combat roles. 99,901 – 109,143 Iraqi civilians killed as of 3/3/2011/, mostly due to suicide bombers, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf
4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.
5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.
6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.
7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.
8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.
9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.
10) – Afghanistan: US troops 1,141 killed in action, 242 killed in non-combat situations as of 03/03/2011. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror
11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.
12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.
13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,
14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.
15 The daily suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings in the terror world of Islam.
16) Bombs sent from Yemen by followers of the koran which fortunately were discovered before the bombs were detonated.
17) The killing of 58 Christians in a Catholic church in one of the latest acts of horror and terror in Iraq.
18) Moscow airport suicide bombing: 35 dead, 130 injured. January 25, 2011.
19) A Pakistani minister, who had said he was getting death threats because of his stance against the country's controversial blasphemy law, was shot and killed Wednesday, 3/2/2011
20) two American troops killed in Germany by a recently radicalized Muslim, 3/3/2011
21) the kidnapping and apparent killing of a follower of Zoraster in the dark world of Islamic Pakistan.
22) Shariatpur, Bangladesh (CNN 3/30/2011) - Hena Akhter's last words to her mother proclaimed her innocence. But it was too late to save the 14-year-old girl. Her fellow villagers in Bangladesh's Shariatpur district had already passed harsh judgment on her. Guilty, they said, of having an affair with a married man. The imam from the local mosque ordered the fatwa, or religious ruling, and the punishment: 101 lashes delivered swiftly, deliberately in public. Hena dropped after 70 and died a week later.
Well since so many like to quote from the bible.. here is the justification for calling him fundamentalist.. right out of your bible..
2 Chronicles 15:12-13 : They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
"Your bible"? Ok, right there, you blunted your own point. Trying to quote a religious book that you think everyone believes in makes you a bigot. How can we take your comment seriously?
Nice try. Christianity looks to Jesus Christ and the New Testament fulfillment of the Old Testament. What yuo are quoting is a single, historical moment, and God had His specific reason for that action. But Christianity promotes the age of grace, not punishment. A time will come, at the 2nd resurrection, when those who continue to reject Him in this world will indeed be put to death. But now is not that time, so feel free to repent if you'd like
Of course it's incorrect. Christianity never teaches physical destruction of another for disagreement. Christianity alone is a safe and just blanket for all. Norway should install a normal justice system(death penalty) like a real Christian.
Doesn't Islam call for beheadings for things like adultery? And let me ask you this: do you think all k!11ing is the same? As in, if you k!11 an attacker in self-defense, does it make you just as bad as your attacker?
Wow, the comment feature is totally spastic today.
@Thermo-, I don't think you got my point. Willful, mutual and deceptive adultery was condemned to death by the Old Testament Bible. Self-defense, battling in war, executing criminals lawfully are different matters. The reason we have courts and trials in civilized nations.
Ah, yes, I thought you were saying that the death penalty, after due process, was a hypocritical aspect of Christianity. I aspire to many of the virtues that Christians do (and fail at the same rate as they do lol), and I believe in death penalty for the worst of the worst. Breivik is one such person. I've been reading his compendium (it's a manifesto only because he compiled it and then went out and slaughtered people), and much of it is by various authors, some of whom I find reasonable and agree with, some of what else is written is clearly out of bounds. And though his lawyer is saying that he is "clearly" insane, considering all the planning, preparation, thought processes, commitment and follow-through, he's the most organized, disciplined, intelligent and determined insane criminal I've ever heard of. Wow. Thanks to all of that, and his charisma and, let's face it, good looks, he will have a following. Some of them will emulate him. It's just a matter of time. I just hope I'm not in the vicinity.
Friend, I do not understand how you can say Norway needs a real justice system like a Christian. I don't see any part of Jesus teachings that advocate death penalties for solving issues. Personally I disagree with the death penalty.
"It is hard to respect a r e l ! g ! 0 n that doesn't practice half of its t e a c h i n g s that are supposed to be the true word of
__G _0 _d. I mean come on, be realistic."
Be realistic? About what? Of the two of us, I'm the one being realistic. And consistent. This isn't about trying to f0rce a m0ral equivalence between any modern n o n-M v s l ! m _r e l ! g ! 0 n and unre formed _! s 1 @ m. It's about calling the cr! me and cr! m! nal by the correct, accurate and appropriate terms. Honesty about who, what, when, where, how and sometimes, eventually, hopefully, why.
(If any of this does post, what will be really we!rd is that the text I quote from the commenter I'm responding to, wasn't spaced out or altered at all.)
"[B]ut if a r e l ! g ! 0 n is made up of people that contradict its t e a c h i n g s, its pretty hard to sit and argue that people are u n j i st i f i e d in complaining about C h r ! s t ! a n ! t y."
Or like _M v $ 1 ! m s who allegedly defy the t e a c h ! n g s in the _Q v r '@ n by co mm itt ing m@ ss m v r d e r? Watch it C0nky, are you claiming to be perfect?
"I understand that being a bad person has nothing to do with your r e l ! _g!0n..."
Unless, of course, the bad guy makes it about his r e l ! _g ! 0 n. You know, as in _r a d! cal _! _$ _1 _@ _m _! _$ _t _s who _k _! _1 _1 n0n-M v s l ! m $ and say they do it for _@ _1 _1_@ _h. Or the bad guy who _m v r d 3 r s an _@ _b _0 _r _t _! _0 _n _d _0 _c _t _0 _r and says it's due to his _b e l ! e f s.