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July 25th, 2011
11:13 AM ET
Is 'Christian fundamentalist' label correct for Norway terror suspect?By Dan Gilgoff, CNN.com Religion Editor (CNN) - Given initial suspicions that Friday's bombing and mass shooting in Norway were carried out by Islamic militants linked to al Qaeda, the way police ended up describing the suspect behind the attacks came as a big surprise even to many security experts: The alleged attacker was called a "Christian fundamentalist." But experts on European politics and religion say that the Christian fundamentalist label could overstate the extent to which the suspect, Anders Behring Breivik - who has told authorities that he carried out the attacks - was motivated by religion, and the extent to which he is tied to a broader religious movement. "It is true that he sees himself as a crusader and some sort of Templar knight," said Marcus Buck, a political science professor at Norway's University of Tromso, referring to an online manifesto that Breivik appears to have authored and which draws inspiration from medieval Christian crusaders. My Take: Norway attacks shows terrorism isn't just Islamic "But he doesn't seem to have any insight into Christian theology or any ideas of how the Christian faith should play any role in Norwegian or European society," Buck wrote in an email message. "His links to Christianity are much more based on being against Islam and what he perceives of as 'cultural Marxism.'" From what the 1,500-page manifesto says, Breivik appears to have been motivated more by an extreme loathing of European multiculturalism that has accompanied rapid immigration from the developing world, and of the European Union's growing powers, than by Christianity. "My impression is that Christianity is used more as a vehicle to unjustly assign some religious moral weight," to his political views, said Anders Romarheim, a fellow at the Norwegian Institute for Defence Studies. "It is a signifier of Western culture and values, which is what they pretend to defend." "I would say they are more anti-Islam than pro-Christian," Romarheim said in reference to what appear to be Breivik's views. The manifesto is religion-obsessed in that it rants for long stretches against Muslims and their growing presence in Europe. Who is Anders Behring Breivik? It calls for a European civil war to overthrow governments, end multiculturalism and execute "cultural Marxists." The manifesto includes a link to a video asserting that the majority of Europe's population will be Muslim by 2050 "unless we manage to defeat the ruling Multiculturalist Alliance." The author of the document identifies himself as Breivik, but CNN could not independently verify that he wrote the document, and Norwegian authorities would not confirm that the man in their custody wrote the manifesto, saying it was part of their investigation Opposition to booming Muslim immigration to Europe, exacerbated by high birth rates in the Muslim community, has become a mainstay of Europe's burgeoning far-right, helping right-wing parties gain seats in parliaments across the continent. But those right-wing movements are mostly secular. Europe's hard right does not have deep ties to Christianity in the way that the United States' conservative movement is entwined with evangelical Christianity and other theologically conservative religious movements. A far-right comeback in Europe Recently adopted European laws aimed at curbing Islam's public visibility, including France's new burqa ban and Switzerland ban on minarets - towers that a part of mosques - were secular causes, not ones championed by Christian interests. Many Christian groups oppose such bans. "The bulk of the anti-Muslim sentiment is not against Muslims as such, but is a secular rejection of how some Muslims allegedly want to place Islam at the center of society," Buck said. "It is more anti-religious than anti-Muslim." Breivik's apparent manifesto, by contrast, cites biblical verses to justify violence for political ends. "Clearly, this is not a pacifist God we serve," it says. "It's God who teaches our hands to war and our fingers to fight. Over and over again throughout the Old Testament, His people are commanded to fight with the best weapons available to them at that time." "The biggest threat to Europe is the cultural Marxist/multiculturalist political doctrine of 'extreme egalitarian emotionalism,'" the manifesto goes on. "This type of political stance involves destroying Christendom, the Church, our European cultures and identities and opening up our borders to Islamic colonization." The video that's linked to in the manifesto also includes some religious language: "Celebrate us, the martyrs of the conservative revolution, for we will soon dine in the Kingdom of Heaven." Experts on religion in Europe said those faith-infused views are likely peculiar to the suspected gunman and do not appear reflect wider religious movements, even as they echoes grievances of Europe's right-wing political groups. "He was a flaky extremist who might as well have claimed to be fighting for the honor of Hogwarts as for the cause of Christ," said Philip Jenkins, a Pennsylvania State University professor who studies global religion and politics, describing the suspected Norway attacker. "He did not represent a religious movement. ... People should not follow that Christian fundamentalist red herring." At the same time, Breivik told investigators during interviews that he belongs to an international order, The Knights Templar, according to Norwegian newspaper VG, which cited unnamed sources. He described the organization as an armed Christian order, fighting to rid the West of Islamic suppression, the newspaper said. He also told investigators he had been in contact with like-minded individuals and said he counts himself as a representative of this order, it said. For many in Norway, the potential implications of the suspected killer's religion are still settling in. "This is the first time we've heard of Christianity/religion as a driving force behind right-wing extremism," Buck said. "The mainstream right-wing movements in the Nordic countries (very small and disorganized groups in Norway) would generally point to the Old Norse beliefs, if anything." "Norwegian, Nordic and European society," he said, "were totally unprepared for a violent attack from someone who calls himself Christian." soundoff (1,640 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Does he really need a label other than "crazy"?
If a Christian fundamentalist shoots a bunch of people, and our society wants to ignore his religious afflication, does that mean that our bigotry toward Islam can still feel justified?
The guy was a Christian "Terrorist" rather than a fundy.
There is a very clear double standard here... The West flings around terms like "Islamic Fundamentalist" or "Islamic Terrorist" around whenever it's the Al Qaeda mob who commit an atrocity and then wants to be in denial of fanatical Christian terrorists who similarly abuse the Bible in the same manner as these Al Qaeda types abuse the Quran in order to further their own ends....Wake up to the fact that there are "Christian" terrorists out there who misguidedly are taking their cues from historical events such as The Crusades just as Bin Laden was obsessed with the idea of a Caliphate.... If Breivik is not a "true" Christian, then these Al Qaeda types are not "true" Muslims and both should be damned by society as fanatics and murderers and should not have terms such as "christian" or "muslim" ascribed to them... To do anything otherwise is hypocrisy....
There's no double standard here. Al-Qaeda is fundamentally motivated by a specific understanding of Islam, and its goal is the recreation of the Islamic caliphate to be ruled according to the principles of Islamic law. Breivik uses Christianity as a signifier of indigenous European culture, but is often critical of Christianity in his manifesto and even emphasizes the importance of science and reason over religion. He takes none of the positions typical of fundamentalist Christianity, nor does he provide any theological or doctrinal opinions.
A Man has to extend his relations with all races and beliefs and learn how to extend trust and cooperation.
Some body has to play the role of Middle Man/ Negotiator whether you trust or not ! Some body has be there with contacts when strings are to be pulled...they are even gain as brokers in deals...!The right contact and the building of public relations locally or internationally is an important issue for finalizing any political or business deals therefore you have to build your relation and extend it to whom you like or don't like for any means, after all you never know when you will be needed to resolve problems between people through your contacts...! That is life "We need each other whether we like each other or not" and that how things are concluded rather than closing our selves into shells... Any business man within imports/exports/transportations services has to have and build contacts globally to run a business otherwise by being choosey as to whom you like or do not like....guess there will be no business and you got to trust that some body even if you do not like them beliefs or what's ever it is That bands you....?!
"Discrimination/Racisem are a poisonous elements of Hate" Muslims started from Southern Yemen who have traded all the Indian and Pacific oceans with people of all beliefs or disbeliefs...they have integrated among all coastal lands populations...therefore you will find big family roots in South East Asia extended to China Sea that are Originally from Yemeni,Hadramy descendants...!!
Islam or Christianity by Birth are Not Religions but rather a political Nationality & National Ident-i-ty !!
Religion is not by Birth, Religion it is by Faith,therefore they are not as Equal or Alike.
Kindly refer to following Quran verses ;
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"The blind and the seeing are not alike; (19) Nor are the depths of Darkness and the Light; (20) Nor are the (chilly) shade and the (genial) heat of the sun: (21) Nor are alike those that are living and those that are dead. Allah can make any that He wills to hear; but thou canst not make those to hear who are (buried) in graves. (22)".
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"These two kinds (of men) may be compared to the blind and deaf, and those who can see and hear well. Are they equal when compared? Will ye not then take heed? (24)".
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"Say: "Are the blind equal with those who see? Or the depths of darkness equal with Light?" (16)".
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"Is one who worships devoutly during the hours of the night prostrating himself or standing (in adoration), who takes heed of the Hereafter, and who places his hope in the Mercy of his Lord― (like one who does not)? Say: "Are those equal, those who know and those who do not know? It is those who are endued with understanding that receive admonition." (9)".
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"Not equal are the blind and those who (clearly) see: nor are (equal) those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and those who do evil. Little do ye learn by admonition! (58)".
--–
Example; Late Amy Winhouse was Nationally known to be of family of Jew but she personally was not a Religious Practising Jew....
Have came across termbe been used here to refer to people such as ;
– He was A Christian Atheist....or was A Jew Atheist...
Or other way of identifying some one they say;
– He was American White Christian Atheist.
– He was American White Christian Muslim.
Notice the use of nationalities given here;
– The Country's Nationality.
– The Race Color Nationality.
– The by birth Community Religion Nationality..
– The Actual or Converted to belief Nationality.
There are other Nationality terms such as the Religious Sectarians and the Regional family Area.
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From every Religion you will find those who are committed (A) and those who are counted on the Religion but are not religious nor they believe (B);
Now we ought to find out who is generating the trouble ? Are they Group (A)or (B) from each By Birth Religion...!?
Islam or Christianity by Birth are Not Religions but rather a Political Nationality & National Ident-i-ty !!
Peace and Ramadan Kareem to all Muslim Brothers and Sisters...Inshallah fasting from Monday Dawn to SunSet...
Just wonder in Christians or non Religious have tried fasting as Muslims do...am sure with time they will adopt it as a system for the health benefits it holds health and body...it is told it helps the body to discharge and burn out the poisonous chemicals from our bodies other than controlling weights... Some say they can not because of smoking other for water or food...but other than that is controlling anger or bad mood of the empty stomach, controlling one's tongue from hurting any one,to control eyes from staring at desire... Above all those to a Muslim he is to Maintain Prayers and Quran Reciting which of course beside it being a spiritual matter it is meant the body exercise by the up's and down's of prayers....as well as training of tongue & lungs by the Quran Recitation...these beside Tasbih "Praise of Glorify" helps to control one's breathing..
So you see it is all good and challenging since only by those means can you gain control your desires...
-–
Control of Desire Quran verses same Verse in Arabic but in English check translation and God knows how many are other more...such as these things case confusion among non Arab Muslims and non Muslims..although all end to mean same thing but in different ways that caused it be misunderstood...then the fact of being translated in many languages in the same way...! This was just a standing example of the Quran although still alive existing and in one copy !?
Then imagine what could have had happened to the Torah and or Gospel having passed through three dead languages,one after the other then from a classic language into modern language, in many different copies then into many languages.
Read and Judge;
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[79:40] As for the one who reverenced the majesty of his Lord, and enjoined the self from sinful lusts.
[79:41] Paradise will be the abode.
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But as for him who feared to stand before his Lord and restrained his soul from lust, (40) Lo! the Garden will be his home. (41)
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And as for him who dreaded standing before his Lord, and restrained his soul from lust, (40) Verily the Garden! -that shall be his resort. (41)
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And for such as had entertained the fear of standing before their Lord's (tribunal) and had restrained (their) soul from lower Desires, (40) Their Abode will be the Garden. (41).
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But as for him who feared standing before his Lord, and restrained himself from impure evil desires, and lusts. (40) Verily, Paradise will be his abode. (41).
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Whereas for the one who feared to stand before his Lord, and restrained his self from the (evil) desire, (40) The Paradise will be the abode. (41).
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If it is true Europe is drowning in Muslims then it must be because Christians are becoming less...!
If it is true Europe is drowning in Colored then it must be because European whites are becoming less... !
But what was the Question "Muslims or Colored" since both are same to certain blood races... The game of "Masters&Slaves" rather than "Equality to Mankind"..."The Beast in man is in regaining power over all Declared Rights".
Mankind is under slavery in Different Colorful Masks by Religious or Poltical Ent-i-ties".
http://www.facebook.com/groups/IslamCultNotReligion/doc/?id=240410262648607
BBC2 has produced 'a presenter-led do-cu-mentary series' on the life of Muhammad (pbuh)
which 'draw on the expertise and comments from the world's leading academics and commentators on Islam.'
You will find all three parts of the do-cu-mentary in the following link.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b012mkh7/episodes/player
Such crime if it took place any where in our Islamic lands and was caught for the crime....he will be torn to pieces there and then with out trial since trials are supposed for those who are suspected and not proven guilty....but as a case that is as plain they should have condemned him to worst death with out any need for court trials...
But by being soft on the issue and giving ear to such junk you open doors for those copycats whom seek fame...
It's fun to speculate about motives and inspiration used by this murderer to commit these terrible acts and I've been guilty of doing just that these last few days. It's been said that Breivik is a fundamentalist Christian and implied that his religious beliefs inspired him. However, we just don't see a lot of evidence to suggest that fundamental Christianity endorses violence. Quite the opposite in fact. The Amish, Hutterites, Mennonites,Maccabees and many, many other groups of Christian fundamentalists are extremely peaceful people and are taught that the words of Jesus, "to turn the other cheek" and "to love your enemies" and to always forgive, "seventy times seven" times and other similar words are the way to live your life. That's fundamentalist Christianity in a nutshell. To suggest that this creep was a Christian fundamentalist is absurd. It's ridiculous. It shows a complete lack of intellectual honesty. He may have Christian views as many murderers may or may not, but he's no fundamentalist Christian. I'm an Atheist and I can see that much clearly. I see this more as an opportunity for the Christian haters to pound their chests and cry their hate out loud and clear because they think they have a little cover. It's disgusting. You cannot compare this terrorist act to the constant avalanche of Islamic inspired violence and terrorism, like there is some equivalent religious motivation.The fact is that they have little in common other than the act. True fundamentalist Christianity stresses the absence of violence, forgiveness, and going out of your way to help others. Fundamentalist Islam teaches that it is OK to use violence to advance the cause of Islam. Two completely different teachings. I think people need to check their own motives once in a while and ask if they are being honest or just looking to hurt people they don't like or agree with. And that's about all I got to say about that!
It is about greed,about bloodlines (Families&Tribes),about ruling leadership positions,about survival and to remain in existence...aren't we seeing a live examples from what is happening to countries that had the MidEast Spring but nothing achieved what the Tunisians and Egyptians had achieved....so you see the fat gangsters with such Springs will be replaced with new starving hungry gangsters who will slowly shift power to their families and relatives....it is like reshuffling the cards for a new game and power balances between partners of old clearing accounts...!
Fire was cool for Abraham....
Sincerely you were right with every word you wrote thank you for helping me to understand even more as a Muslim ...
It really should be reminded that Judaism,Christinity,Islam...all are Eastern before it became Western....and that if a word to be believed then it Should be from an Eastern found Scripture...! It might be as well that the true inheritors of the all three religions as well as bloods are those in MidEast...Peace.
45. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.
46. "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."
47. She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!
48. "And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
49. "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
50. "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.
51. "'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"
52. When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah." Said the disciples: "We are Allah.s helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
(quran 3:45-52)
What part of the Christian faith do people not understand. If I were to criticize a Muslim I would have to search the Koran and tell him. It is easy to look at the Islamic world and the actions of a few to make a judgement. That is not fair by any means.
I look at the scriptures and what Jesus and the early church taught. The early church as in the New Testament and writing of the early church fathers etc. Does what the fellow in Norway follow those teachings. If not then he is not a Christian in any sense of the word or world. He is a crusader. One who tries to do the work of God with a weapon. What did Jesus teach about that. Let us separate what the Crusaders did and what Christ taught. If Christ had a copyright and persused it many people throughout history could have been sued so hard that they would not have a shirt on their backs or a dollar to their name. He has not done this to my knowledge but He will do so someday and that maybe soon. Ooops there I go again with a little evangelism.
45. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.
46. "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."
47. She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!
48. "And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
49. "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
50. "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.
51. "'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"
52. When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah." Said the disciples: "We are Allah.s helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
Man O Man
When without money,
eats wild vegetables at home
When has money,
eats same wild vegetables in fine restaurant.
When without money,
rides bicycle;
When has money,
rides exercise machine.
When without money,
walks to earn food
When has money,
walks to lose the fat
Man O Man ! never fails to deceive thyself !
When without money,
wishes to get married;
When has money,
wishes to get divorced.
When without money,
wife becomes secretary;
When has money,
secretary becomes wife.
When without money, acts like rich man;
When has money, acts like poor man.
Man, O Man, never can tell the simple truth !
Says share market is bad
but keeps speculating;
Says money is evil
but keeps acc-umu-lating.
Says high positions are lonely
but keeps wanting them.
Says gambling & drinking is bad
but keeps indulging;
Man O Man !
Never means what he says
and
never says what he means!
THERE ARE NO MIRACLES IN LIFE.
LIFE ITSELF IS A MIRACLE!
This comment where you are actually debating whether to call Breivik a christian, reeks of double standards. He himself has stated that he joined the Knight Templar. If that is not being Christian, I do not know what is then. These knight fought the Muslims to protect christianity. The over analyzing of Breivik's action demonstrates the fact that the right wingers along with media seem disappointed that he was not a Muslim. I strongly believe that if Breivik had a distant relative whose great grandfather's illegitimate child's wife's sister's kid were a Muslim the right wingers would be quick to pounce on that and declare him a Muslim by association and would be now trying to cram that fact down our throats.
I am a Muslim and though I am sad that this unspeakable horror has happened, I am glad that he is not a Muslim. This goes to prove that it is NOT the religion, rather a fringe group of violent people that are doing this.
Islam poses no threat to Christianity.
This idiot fails to see that.
Infact, muslims have recently dedicated a Mosque to Jesus Christ.
Not to mention the fact that Muslims consider themselves The Army of Christ.
So, by attacking anything pro-muslim, he is infact attacking the defenders of Christ,
and thus he is in reality, Anti-Christian.
He fails to realise that Islam is another form of Christianity.
He fails to realise that Islam is a simply a form of Christianity resistant to Secular impulses.
He has, as so many others, failed to comprehend what Christianity is really about.
Bow down to no-one but God and worship God alone.
Keep His commandments.
And if someone by mistake or neccecity happens to take a p i s s on your property, do not slay his entire family because of it, but forgive him, and move on.
And in addition: The man is the head of the woman, and women should not speak in public.
There is no such thing as "Gender Equaity" in Christianity.
There is no more "equality" between a man and a woman, than it is between God and Lucifer.
That means absolutely none, what so ever.
The essence of Christianity is that The Father is to be obeyed at all costs.
Even to the point were The Fathers will means death on cross for His kid.
The mothers will for her child in True Christianity is utterly irelevant.
A mother is to be a mother, and a servant of God.
In the family, the man / father is supposed to be Gods representative.
Step-fathers, have no say in family matters and if they are to exist at all, it is only as a servant of the True father of the child. A step-father is never a replacement, but merely an accessorie when and if it suits the real Fathers purpose.
That is Christianity in its essence.
And this essence, is alive and well in Islam.
Anders Breivik thinks modern western culture is somehow representative of Christianity, and fails to see that nothing could be further from the truth.
Western culture has nothing to do with Christianity, and Christianity does not need any defense against Islam.
The only thing that poses a threat to Christianity is Western Culture itself.
If Breivik was a true Christian, he would embrace Islam whole heartedly.
Unfortunately, the man is an idiot, so he does not.
Hope that cleared matters up for you.
Have a nice day.
Thanks brother Jesus christ(peace be upon him) was a muslim because a muslim means some one who submits to God alone worship him alone and not to man or women or animals or other objects!
jesus will return soon to bring peace and justice on earth insallah (God willingly) http://www.jesuswillreturn.com
Fire.
Fire was cool for Abraham....
Sincerely you were right with every word you wrote thank you for helping me to understand even more as a Muslim ...
It really should be reminded that Judaism,Christinity,Islam...all are Eastern before it became Western....and that if a word to be believed then it Should be from an Eastern found Scripture...! It might be as well that the true inheritors of the all three religions as well as bloods are those in MidEast...Peace.
Do Muslim extremists "have any insight into [Islamic] theology or any ideas of how [Islam] should play any role in [Middle Eastern] society"? This is a rather ridiculous attempt to create a double standard, blaming Islam for atrocities committed by Muslim fundamentalists while trying to duck the same charge for Christian terrorists.
My words exactly
And my words exactly.
Isn't it pointless to debate what WE think is the correct religious label for Breivik. What matters is what he believed and how he used those beliefs to justify or support his actions. In the end, the only accurate label for him is a mad man.