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August 4th, 2011
01:16 PM ET
Mormon presidential politics(CNN)–America is not ready for a Mormon president, according to Christian author Tricia Erickson. On Wednesday she told CNN's Tom Foreman on In the Arena that she believes a practicing Mormon should not be president because of their theological views on the afterlife and governance. CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor Eric Marrapodi jumped into the fray on the topic with Foreman as well. He said while religious views shape Mormon politicians on a macro level, there is no evidence Mormon politicians have a "bat phone" to Utah and take orders from the leadership of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as the church is formally known. While the U.S. Constitution says "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States," Republican candidates for the White House Mitt Romney and John Huntsman – who are both Mormons – may have more ground to make up on this issue than previously thought. Erickson, an ex-Mormon who has long been critical of the church, is not alone in her views. A June poll by the Quinnipiac Poll found 36% of Americans would be somewhat or entirely uncomfortable with a Mormon president. A June Gallup poll found 22% of Americans would not vote for an otherwise qualified Mormon candidate. There may be a silver lining for Mormon candidates though. A July poll by the Public Research Research Institute and Religion News Service, found four of ten Americans know that the Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney is a Mormon and about half (46%) said they do not know his religious affiliation. Of the 3,000,000 people who live in Iowa there are only 24,000 LDS members, according to the Deseret News' 2011 Church Almanac. The Deseret News is owned by the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints, but is independently operated. The percentage breakdown of Mormons living in South Carolina is similar too. With so few practicing Mormons in those early primary states, voters with questions about the tenets of Mormonism may not have many places to turn to ask impolite questions about the faith, allowing rumors and speculation to go unchallenged. This year the church has gone on a PR blitz with its campaign, "I'm a Mormon." It's goal is to break Mormon stereotypes and features a diverse group church members like a motorcycle builder, an African American couple, and Latinos. They bought an electronic billboard in Times Square just down the street from the Broadway Show the "Book of Mormon.” The satirical musical features the adventures of buttoned up and earnest white Mormon missionaries in Africa. "Our Church is known for our efforts to share our message,” Richard G. Hinckley, Executive Director of the Missionary Department for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, told the Belief Blog when the ad went up. “This is one way to get to know us — through the lives of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” The campaign is set to expand to more cities this fall but The Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday the church would not be buying ads in primary states to avoid the appearance of political meddling. "We know people will draw the wrong conclusions," Michael Otterson a church spokesman told the Journal. We want to hear from you. What do you think? Does a candidate's religion play into your decision to vote for them? What matters more to you policy or theology?
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Despite the political and even religious diatribe, most of which is innuendo and false accusations from the undereducated…
It’s still going to be about the economy and who can get the job done!
Romney knows and understands world economics. In the private sector, for most of his life, he successfully and profitably managed large companies, helped turn around large companies that were sinking and helped other companies get started, saving and creating thousands of jobs, Domino’s Pizza and Staples to name just a few of many.
Funny. Half of MA loves what Romney did, the other half hate him, maybe because he left after completing only one term. Maybe he is not a “career” politician, do you always need a “career” politician to get the job done?
Yes, he worked as the MA governor for his entire term for FREE!!! Who else would have done that!?
Yes, during his 4 years as governor MA ranked 49th in job creation for half of his term before moving up to 47th in his final year. Not a stellar record to some. Yet Romney also reduced corporate loopholes and cut state spending in order to cut taxes and increase consumer spending. MA had a huge deficit, about 3 Billion dollars when he started, and he left MA with a 600 million surplus and balanced budget at the end of his term (yes, he raised state “fees”, but still kept them below the national average). He can't help it if the government screwed up after he left.
MA’s super majority Democrat controlled legislature wanted desperately some kind of Universal Health care program. Romney worked with them to create one that would work, similar to mandated auto insurance (most states have such mandates). It is estimated that 98% of the residents are now covered. It was within projected budget (about 1% of the State budget) until Romney left and MA made changes to the program and now it is costing them. Romney believes that states - not the federal government - should be free to design their own plans for covering the uninsured if that is what they want to do.
Yes, he compromised on some political issues, again dealing with a super majority Democrat Legislature and Judicial Branch in MA, in order to keep the state government working together and moving forward.
He turned around a struggling 2002 Winter Olympics with millions in debt and made it into one of the most profitable Olympics in history. And only took a $1 dollar salary. Who else would have done that!?
He is against federalization and big government and believes in state’s rights to govern their own affairs.
He believes in marriage between a man and woman, the importance of family, and lives the example.
He is for a strong military and believes the borders should be better protected.
The list of real positives is far greater than the supposed list of negatives.
And the Democrat Party is most afraid of Romney.
Dandini, thank you for posting some information on Mitt Romney's actual policy positions, which should be most relevant to the question at hand, "Should he be elected President?" That was refreshing to read.
Not True...read excerpt from my book, Can Mitt Romney Serve Two Masters, on his job as governor:
How did the people of Massachusetts fare under Romney? According to Northeastern University economist Andrew Sum, in number of jobs created, economic growth and wage increases, not well. Sum told Reuters in 2008 “As a strict labor market economist looking at the record, Massachusetts did very poorly during the Romney years…On every measure you’ve got, the state was a substantial under-performer.”
During Romney’s term Massachusetts was in the bottom three of the nation for job creation, only above Michigan and post-Katrina Louisiana, according to Sum. Moody’s Economy.com was a little more generous ranking Massachusetts as the fourth weakest state during the period. Only 24,400 new jobs were netted during Romney’s term, an anemic 0.8 percent increase.
Wages did not fare much better either during Romney’s term. The weekly wage, adjusted for inflation, from 2001 to 2006 increased a mere $1.00 and “real output of goods and services – a broad measure of economic performance – grew nine percent, below the 13 percent rate for the United States,” under Romney. Massachusetts did rank in the top three in another category, however; the third highest for population loss in a state from 2002 to 2006.
The Romney camp responds to such criticism that if it weren’t for Romney, Massachusetts would have fared much worse. According to Romney spokesman in 2008 Kevin Madden, Romney brought Massachusetts “back from the brink of financial disaster.” That sounds eerily familiar to our current president’s rhetoric.
@Tricia,
bla bla bla. You got some national coverage and free advertisment for your silly book. You really must be hurting for work or need to be the center of attention, somthing you must have not gotten enough as the daughter of a mormon bishop. You could not even provide any history of poor and questional political performance or political policy that dicredicts mormons from being involved in politics. Catholics believe their church government supercedes all other government and law (hence the issues with abuse by the hands of catholic priests that has and still goes unreport). Come back when you have something worthwhile to contribute, better yet, just don't come back...I'm not the only one who thinks CNN lost alot of credibily putting you on national TV just to rant and rave about what Mormons believe and and be inable to present anything substancial that demonstrates why a mormon politician cannot be trusted. Please next time just stay on your corner in SLC peddleing your book.
Some observations in the 21st century:
After a careful and thorough review, it is apparent that we have been fed significant mumbo-jumbo with respect to the life of Jesus.
Brothers and Sisters stop and read about the real Jesus. Develop the new view!!! Jesus was a simple, illiterate, 1st century, preacher/magic man. The Beat-itudes are pure Jesus. His giving to Caesar what was Caesars is pure Jesus. The rest was embellishment upon embellishment of the life of said simple preacher man!!! The "miracles" were added to compete with the local "voodooers of the hoodoo". The resurrection and ascension were added to compete with Roman and Greek gods and the "pretty wingie thingies" and "demons of the demented added to continue the fear and superst-itions of the ancients!!!!!"
I am not Mormon and never was BUT I think it is atrocious to see one post after another taking pot-shots at Mormon people and their religion. Clearly it is part of the liberal 2012 campaign to discredit anyone who could challenge the colossal failure THEY called the Messiah in 2008. They want to destroy anyone who might run against him so he will have a second term (an incredible failure). I take offense to the hatchet job CNN is doing on the Mormon religion and its people.
Mormons should read the Bible they have with an open heart. The only way out of the cult.
All Americans SHOULD read the US Con.s.t.i.t.u.y.i.o.n and understand it but we don't. They gladly give away ALL of the Bill of Rights .. 1st amendment, 2d, 4th, 5th .. all gone. They do not value their own freedoms. So what difference does the LDS make?
Interestingly enough, Mormons scored higher than any other group in knowledge of the Bible and Christianity in a recent survey on religion by the Pew Forum (http://pewforum.org/other-beliefs-and-practices/u-s-religious-knowledge-survey.aspx). Apparently Mormons do read the Bible after all!
David, where did you get your name? Remember King David? And are you denouncing individuals like George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Bejamin Franklin, and Samuel Adams? ...Anti-Christian Americans like you should get kicked out of USA now.
They should have been kicked out a long time ago along with illegals and commies
We don't live in a theocracy just yet. You're confusing your personal religious beliefs with national immigration policy. It just might be nonsense such as this which leads some to question placing those suffering from religious narrow-mindedness (of all stripes) into public office.
Joseph smith, Noah, Abraham, the thing that all of these men have in common is claims to things that no one can prove or disprove....who cares when it comes to politics.
Philosophically speaking Joseph smiths life is no weirder than any other self acclaimed prophet from the bible. They all claim miracles....that we cannot PROVE......and all claim to speak to god....which there is NO EVIDENCE of. It is all arbitrary and just as weird. Who cares what religion these presidential candidates are....all of the various religious presidents. Didn't suddenly turn our nation into religious zombies. We are not all gonna believe in joseph smith if a Mormon gets elected. Let's just look at their political stance and what they offer for our crumbling nation before it's too late....
@charles
there are those that take issue with the Catholic Church .To do so neither proves nor disproves anything regarding the Bible , but you have opened the door to discussion on several points.The Biblical flood...most do not see the evidence for the world wide flood,many theories have been advanced, including a localized flood,not quite up to the cataclysmic events described in Genesis.It may be possible that we (mankind)are missing the event by looking too narrowly.This event ,the flood may have been so much more than we could possibly suspect, the Bible says the fountains of the deep burst forth, water burst upward, with enough force to move continents,tossed entire forests upside down and buried them miles into the earth creating coal and diamonds etc. at the same time as water poured from the sky,perhaps a protective covering of water that at one time enveloped the earth.The book of Enoch sheds some light on this theory, but it is possible man is overlooking the actual event by looking too small.
men living in fish Jonah,is it possible?In the whaling era, oil lamps, moby dick and all that ,there is a recorded instance of a whaler tossed out of a boat and swallowed by a whale. sometime later, possibly days later ,that whale was taken and when opened ,the hapless sailor was found still alive.reports say the man was bleached white for the remainder of his life by the whales stomach acid.Not Jonah , but a convincing enough historical evidence that such a thing is indeed possible.
talking shrubbery or Moses and the burning bush.Millions of people for thousands of years have encountered the living God .Many like Moses and the prophets were in the very presence of God Himself.When a man encounters God he is left with a lasting series of information,most of which we are unable to wrap our minds around.The event of meeting God left and leaves many with the challenge of describing the event,Moses described it as a bush that burned but was not consumed,Isaiah described his experience as like having a live coal taken from the altar and placed on his lips,Ezekiel described it as lining creatures and a wheel within a wheel.How would you expect a mortal man to convey what can't be said .Men did the best they could to bring understanding to others about their experiences with the one true God.That is how it was ,even then these men of God were mocked and belittled, nothing new under the sun , the same old arguments , nothing has changed.
Mormon beliefs are based on Joseph Smith A known con man of the mid 1800's,the Bible which is not a Mormon text is being proved correct in archaeology more and more (illustrations available upon request)The book of Mormon is unproven at every turn.To equate Mormon with Christian is a serious mistake on your part.
Your premise that the biblical flood (and presumably the whole "two of each creature on the ark" angle) is credible if we only think bigger doesn't help your case, I'm afraid, if your intent is to convince that your beliefs bear rational scrutiny. As to the myth of a man living in a whale....
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/n/newjonah.htm
herbert juarez isn't real.
denial by spiffy
the first danger sign of a fraud
diverting attention away from the fact
that it is actually spiffy who does not exist
as i was going to the fair
i met a man who wasn't there
he wasn't there again today
i sure do hope he stays away
spiffy does not exist
@charles
it would appear that if you were ushered into the presence of God Himself your response would be to continue to deny Him.There ain't no cure for stupid. adios
"...fountains of the deep burst forth, water burst upward, with enough force to move continents,tossed entire forests upside down and buried them miles into the earth creating coal and diamonds etc. at the same time as water poured from the sky,perhaps a protective covering of water that at one time enveloped the earth...."
Perhaps not surprisingly, you've reached a conclusion which is unsupported by the facts at hand. However, Being "ushered into the presence of God himself" is a light year away from accepting your speculation above regarding the supposed biblical flood – which is laughably devoid of any supporting evidence itself. (Though you haven't said as much, I'd hazard a guess that you're one of those who maintain (overwhelming evidence to the contrary) that the earth is 6,000 years old – apologies in advance if I've misjudged on this point, though if not, you're a close cousin. I've come not to expect any sort of rational discussion will last long with somebody who takes the bible as literal truth. You haven't disappointed.
which part of adios are you having trouble with?
The part where you actually reply back to me, I suppose.
I have more respect for someone who admits what they really are than I do for someone who claims to be a Christian that isn't.
_____________________________________________________________________Something does not make sence here! It seems everybody is condeming the Morman Church and when Tricia (I know nothing about her profession) comes on to explain why she left the Morman Church, everybody attacks her. Is this a bunch of people just looking for a fight? I know there are some good people out there, but there must be a bunch of scavengers also. ___________________________________
They are attacking her because he beef with the Mormon church is personal and has no basis. She has no proof that their faith has influenced our country negatively.
Ugh! Bo, what we have here is a situation that Mormons, when they have no valid argument to the FACTS in my book, they attack me personally, instead of looking in to their own church and history to actually identify that the FACTS in my book are actual FACTS.
If they just allowed themselves to seek the truth, they just may find it. However, the Mormon Church has control over their minds because they believe their eternal salvation depends on being OBEDIENT to this false religion, which very well could take them to hell.
The Mormon Church heriarchy forbids their flocks/people from reading anything contrary to the false information they feed them...so it will be a rare occaision that a Mormon actually has the guts to read my book and see the truth about what they are involved in. God forbid that they learn the truth and the churc loses their 10% of the gross of their money on a regular basis.
I did not leave the church for any reason other than I have a critical thinking spirit that God blessed me with and that spirit literally saved me. If more Mormons would take the courage to explore the facts, versus the fiction taught to them through the ages of the church, they would be THANKING ME, versus ATACKING ME. They can attack the facts all they want but it doesn't make their false religion true.
Pray for them.
Tricia,
Do you realize how you come off? How Christlike is it to attempt to dismantle others' beliefs? You insist that others simply do not have real sources, but your own statements are gross misrepresentations of any sense of truth, and by doing so you are distorting the beliefs of many and are attempting to make them appear as enemies of the state, a preposterous claim. What makes America great is the opportunity for diversity, especially in religion. You seem intent on following the model of the Middle Ages; i.e. if someone believes differently attack until the enemy is demolished. Your conduct is simply bigoted and un-American.
How is the Mormon belief system any more ridiculous than any of the other ones out there. They're all wacky.
define all?
what makes mormons more ridiculous?joseph smith
What about Joseph Smith is more wacky that consuming the flesh and drinking the blood of a man-god?
Agree with pastafarian....criticism of Mormon beliefs by Christians is akin to the argument amongst the Lilliputians in "Gulliver's Travels" over whether eggs should be broken on the small end or the large end.
You know what REALLY makes mormons strange and twisted? They eat their bread with the BUTTER SIDE DOWN!!
@steve
look into it yourself,as to joe smith , i can't even begin to tell you what's wrong with the rest of your statement.Do you have mental issues?
Herbert – no mental issues. I just happen to know what the Catholic Catechism states. The teachings of joseph smith are no weirder than magically transforming bread and wine into actual flesh and blood, and then consuming them.
"i can't even begin to tell you what's wrong with the rest of your statement"
Exactly (not in any sort of rational manner, at least).....and yet you won't likely accept the premise that there's *nothing* wrong with the rest of his statement.
Perhaps it is only a matter of degree, but I always considered Mormon beliefs... um.... less believable because they generally have all the Christian beliefs and then pile on more stuff, hence C <= C + M.
That sounds like a vote for the small end of the egg.
@steve
I am not catholic , but if you research anything of joe smith you'll find that yes he is weirder.
@Charles
"That sounds like a vote for the small end of the egg."
How dare you cast aspersions on my character!! I'll bet you are one of those little endians yourself!!!
Actually, I don't care for soft boiled eggs.
I've researched a lot and read a decent amount on the history of the mormon church. It's claims are more, perhaps, less believable simply because one can more easily discredit the book of mormon's historical claims. But I still fail to see how getting golden tablets or jesus meeting the native americans is weirder than getting stone tablets or drinking jesus blood weekly.
@charles
@nominus
Mormons are not Christians,and do not follow the Bible . Their prophet wrote his own "holy" tome.There are more parallels between Islam and Mormonism than any other legitimate belief system.Joe smith did not start with Christian beliefs,and "add on" he rejected all the Christians he was surrounded by,to deliberately found his"own"religion.Look into it,it will make your comments ever so much brighter.
@steve
which part of" I am not Catholic" are you having problems with?
@Herbert, I don't know where you're getting your information on Mormonism, but it's contrary to everything I've read. Here's from the LDS' main page: Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (commonly called "Mormons") revere the Bible as the word of God and use it regularly. Mormons use the Bible for personal study and teach from it during Sunday worship services.
@Herbert,
I completely get that you're not Catholic – I never said that you were. You said that LDS's teachings were weirder. I refuted that point. What, exactly, are you missing in this?
@steve
the actual history of joe smith as opposed to Mormon propaganda,and the inclusion of reverence for the Bible is a recent Mormon ploy to lure in the unsuspected.As to the other I leave it to your opinion.
p.s. i look forward to seeing Mother Teresa kicking your butt all over eternity.
gotta run unlike some posting here i do have a life
cheers
Joe smith did not start with Christian beliefs,and "add on" he rejected all the Christians he was surrounded by,to deliberately found his"own"religion.
The question at hand, though, is not where the Mormon religion started but where it ended. The lead-in to this side-bar is that Mormon beliefs are no more ridiculous / wacky / weird than corresponding Christian beliefs. The example of transubstantiation has been provided – and one could add the biblical flood, men living in fish, and talking shrubbery as additional instances of ridiculous beliefs treated (literally) as gospel by mainstream Christians. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Mormonism as believable – I'm just saying that when Christians criticize Mormons for their beliefs, it's like the pot calling the kettle black.
@herber juarez,
Who supposedly appeared to Joseph Smith first? Father, Son, and Holy Ghost – That sounds entirely Christian to me. Neither Judaism nor Islam would have the last two in there.
@Charles,
But aren't all those seeming oddities, with the possible exception of transubstantiation (isn't that just Catholics?), also included in the Mormon belief system, along with baptism, revelations, angels, heaven, hell(outer darkness), Jesus as saviour, the entire OT, etc. etc.
My point is that it is almost mathematical. Christian "weirdness" + Mormon additional "weirdness" must be greater than Christian "weirdness" alone.
@Nominus,
But each brand has their own particular beliefs around various weird things. Some believe the creation story was a myth, others take it at face value, etc. You can't really lump them all into one category. To me, arguing about levels of weirdness is splitting hairs.
The differences are small in comparison the base level of implausibility. Think of them as rounding errors, perhaps. Is it weirder to believe that the Pope is infallible (Children's Crusade aside) or that the earth is 6,000 years old (science? we don't need no steenkin' science) or that Native Americans are somehow the lost tribe of Israel? Doesn't seem like an important distinction from the outside.
@nominus et al.
A US treasury agent was once asked how do you manage to know and keep track of all the counterfeit money that is made?The agent replied, we don't study the counterfeit, we study the genuine.
Christianity is the genuine , God is the great I AM,all the rest don't matter.You are in grave error to try to equate Mormon and Christian, and equally grave error to consider Christianity weird.How does a person get to a place like that?
" to consider Christianity weird.How does a person get to a place like that?"
--
Simple. Read the bible.
Of course policy is what matters most. But when their religious beliefs interfere with public policy is when we get problems. I hate when candidates say how much their faith shapes them. Then you know how much their personal religious beliefs are going to affect our country. Even though 80% of our country is Christian doesn't mean that the Christian faith should shape our policies. That goes for all religions not just Christianity.
what should really matter most to all people is
it is highly unlikely there is a spiffy
spiffy does not exist
the current president believes you ought to join CPUSA He believes you ought to pay $8/gal for gasoline. He believes you do not deserve health care or a job. He believes you are a racist. Aren;t those beliefs getting in the way of sound policy? I think so.
As we "thu-mp" along with rational thinking, conclusions and reiteration to counter the millennia of false and flawed religious history and theology!!!------––
Why the Christian Right no longer matters in presidential elections:
Once again, all the conservative votes in the country "ain't" going to help a "pro-life" presidential candidate, i.e Mitt Romney, Jon Huntsman, Michele Bachmann, Tim Pawlenty, Herman Cain, Ron Paul or Rick Santorum, in 2012 as the "Immoral Majority" rules the country and will be doing so for awhile. The "Immoral Majority" you ask?
The fastest growing USA voting bloc: In 2008, the 70+ million "Roe vs. Wade mothers and fathers" of aborted womb-babies" whose ranks grow by two million per year i.e. 78+ million "IM" voters in 2012.
2008 Presidential popular vote results:
69,456,897 for pro-abortion/choice BO, 59,934,814 for "pro-life" JM.
And all because many women fail to take the Pill once a day or men fail to use a condom even though in most cases these men have them in their pockets. (maybe they should be called the "Stupid Majority"?)
(The failures of the widely used birth "control" methods i.e. the Pill and male condom have led to the large rate of abortions ( one million/yr) and S-TDs (19 million/yr) in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the Pill or condoms properly and/or use other safer birth control methods in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and S-TD.
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Tricia Erickson's work is laughable at best. Her views are insane. Just watch the video and you'll see how she gets owned by CNN.
If Gov. Romney or Gov. Hunstman are buying everything the Mormon faith is selling, then we have a problem. I should point out that the founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith, actually ran for President in the 1800's. Some of the Mormon founders explicitly stated that their plan was to take over the US. There is no religious test for who can be President, but voters can certainly take those things into account as they make their decisions.
The reason Joseph Smith ran for president is that the other main candidates were entirely tolerant of the public persecutions of Mormons at the time. Smith just gave his community someone to vote for with no pretensions of winning. Have you ever studied the history of Mormons in the US? This great nation of supposed religious tolerance persecuted the Mormons across the country and then finally out of into Mexico (what Utah used to be). Then, coveting the routes to the West Coast, the US government later took control of the Mexican territory the Mormons had fled to. If you take a territory by force and grant citizenship to its inhabitants you get to live with the reality of those people and their beliefs. Mormons are a part of American hIstory just as any other of the diverse groups that comprise it: immigrants, slaves, indigenous peoples, and WASPs. Some of you need to get used to the reality that Mormons are part of American society and can legitimately access public office.
JDJ....From my book, Can MItt Romney Serve Two Masters:
As a member of the priesthood and an ordained Bishop in the Mormon Church, Mitt has participated in numerous such rituals, handshakes and oaths. He has willingly and repeatedly participated in the endowment ceremony of the Mormon Church. In this endowment ceremony, four different “Laws” are presented and secret oaths are sworn that bind the Mormon to those laws by covenant.
The fourth law, “The Law of Consecration” is the one that should most concern you as an American citizen. In this covenant and oath, Mitt and all Mormons swear to: “to consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion.” (4)
Do you understand this implication regarding the office of the Presidency of the United States?
This oath places a Mormon, Mitt Romney, in an uncompromising position of submission and compliance to the Mormon Church and its power, and Mormon’s who have been born into the Church, as Mitt Romney was, have had years of indoctrination or brainwashing if you will, to believe that they simply cannot not disobey the oaths, covenants or church teachings. To do so would be detrimental to their soul to the point of being “cut off”. Being “cut off” to a Mormon means that they will not become a God in the celestial kingdom which is the loss of their status in heaven; to Christians it would be likened to going to hell.
Do not underestimate the power that is placed over the Members of the Mormon Church by its leaders who are believed by Mormons to be God’s Oracles. Therefore, whatever God’s Oracle (mouthpiece) says to do, must be done…even by a Mormon President of The United States. Mitt’s very life is staked on it.
Mormons believe in being subject to government. Its in their articles of faith...do your research
Tricia,
Your plane and simply wrong on a number of Mormon beliefs. To be quite frank you seem to have witnessed "words or deeds" without real understanding of the message. First and formost, Mormons believe in personal revelation. What that means is that you follow the warm and fuzzy feeling of the Holy Ghost, that you get when you do right things. Yes there are leaders, just like God asked Moses to call leaders, but they are not infallable. They are people and continue to remind church members to "find out for themselves." THat is because Mormons govern themselves. We get callings to serve primary, youth, scouting, or even in effect act as the pastor of the congregration. But these callings are only for a time. We are all accountable to govern ourselves considering the council of leaders and seeking personal answers... That is Mormonism
It is just bigotry against people of a certain religion similar to hating Jews or the anti Catholic views in the 1960's regarding JFK. Every religion has views that, taken out of context, appear weird and strange. Someday, we will live in a more civilized world where this type of bigotry is non-existent.
Rick.. sorry.. even in context they seem weird and strange... while i agree that at some time we will all live in a more civilized society it will not be with the help of religions. Religions and gods are the most divisive idea that the human race has ever invented.
Rick, please see this excerpt from my book, Can Mitt Romney Serve Two Masters, and you will see that it is not I who is a bigot...it's just the opposite. This is from the Mormon history's own words:
A Total Disdain for Jews
Deeper in this vein of prejudice, we come to the Jewish Nation; in the following passage Mormon prophet, Brigham Young describes his view of the Jews:
"I would rather undertake to convert five thousand Lamanites [Native Americans], than to convert one of those poor miserable creatures [Jews] whose fathers killed the savior.... Yes, I would rather undertake to CONVERT THE DEVIL HIMSELF, if it were possible. ...I would say, leave them, and come home, the lord does not require you to stay there, for they must suffer and be damned. ...[l]eave them to live and die in their sins and ignorance. ...[t]hey take pleasure in their wickedness...." (17) (Emphasis added)
Jews are clearly held in low regard by one of the former Prophets and Seers of the Mormon Church. Brigham Young said that his word was to be upheld as scripture; therefore we can see the dangers in the words of a man who clearly had a heart filled with hate. Yet, in 1st John Chapter 4, verses 20-21, the Bible plainly states that we cannot love God if we hate others;
If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?
And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also. (NKJV) [Emphasis added]
Tricia, you sensationalize ideas of Mormon theology to the point that they are simply unrecognizable and inaccurate. I recall with humor the "true story" by one anti-Mormon about a young woman trying to get away from the "dark" temple ceremonies who got away by jumping out of the window of the Salt Lake Temple into the Great Salt Lake and swimming away. Unfortunately for this author, the lake is over 8 miles from the temple. It takes as great a leap to match Tricia's comments to any semblance of reality.
@Tricia Erickson
Tricia, you're hot! Will you have dinner with me?
USA was created to freely exercise all the Protestant faiths, but nothing like Mormonism or atheism. It was unthinkable to Founding Fathers or the average Americans of old.
A convenient view for those religious revisionists bent on trying to cast us as a Christian nation....but unsupported by facts. For example, in regards to your assertion re/ what might be "unthinkable" to the founding fathers, you might consider....
Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr – August 17, 1787 – "Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
or
"That Jesus did not mean to impose Himself on mankind as the Son of God, physically speaking, I have been convinced by the writings of men more learned than myself in the lore." - Thomas Jefferson's letter to William Short, August 4, 1820
Thomas Jefferson was a Christian-influenced theist. The Founders, historic influencial American individuals were mostly Protestant Christians. There was no Mormon or atheist con-tri-butors in American history.
Fundamentalist Christian fanatics are destroying America, a secure separation of those who want everyone to believe as they do must cease, if we are to endure as a nation and planet. We were not founded as a one religion nation, we were founded to shelter diverse belief's which gives no one religion (or lack there of) a right to force their views on any other.
We need to step away from the mythology, and realize we are what will make this planet either succeed, or fail, for all of us. The sooner we all quit believing some outside force is going to come and right things for us the better off we will all be.
One tin soldier rides away.....
One of the Founding Fathers summed this up pretty well:
"Religion is a subject on which I have ever been most scrupulously reserved. I have considered it as a matter between every man and his Maker in which no other, and far less the public, had a right to intermeddle." –Thomas Jefferson to Richard Rush, 1813.
"I never will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance or admit a right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others." –Thomas Jefferson to Edward Dowse, 1803.
"Our particular principles of religion are a subject of accountability to God alone. I inquire after no man's, and trouble none with mine." –Thomas Jefferson to Miles King, 1814.
I love love all of the comments!Christa,I would love to have you take baby class. Yeah!! You can gesirter now! I agree that our influence is much greater than any doll.Kellie,I am really interested to see (and also dreading) what Sofia will think is a cool toy now that she is in school. I have a feeling there are lots of parents like minded around us who are also thinking about these things.Katrina,This brings up a whole different topic about what to do when family/friends buy things for your kids that you wouldn't ever buy for them.Wendy,Yes, I am hoping that I am not sending out weird Barbie vibes.Jennifer,I love your Barbie background . I can totally see how for non-white girls, Barbie could not be a great thing. I also like to hear the other side of Barbie doing a lot. I've never thought about that.Audra,I can see how with how you have described Elizabeth's personality to me, how you are avoiding them. Hmmm .e very kid is so different.Adrienne,I like the idea of vintage Barbie clothes. Interesting perspective my dear.Kara,Although I may be wishy washy about Barbie, I do know for 100% fact, that Sofia will not own a Bratz girl.
Personally the more religious someone is the less i want to see them in a leadership role...religion is personal and should stay that way..i think christianity and it's "its our way or the highway" mentality is one of the biggest problems our world has. Chrisianity is a dream...there are no facts...jesus is not the son of some god....if he lived he was just a man....that's it.