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August 4th, 2011
01:16 PM ET
Mormon presidential politics(CNN)–America is not ready for a Mormon president, according to Christian author Tricia Erickson. On Wednesday she told CNN's Tom Foreman on In the Arena that she believes a practicing Mormon should not be president because of their theological views on the afterlife and governance. CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor Eric Marrapodi jumped into the fray on the topic with Foreman as well. He said while religious views shape Mormon politicians on a macro level, there is no evidence Mormon politicians have a "bat phone" to Utah and take orders from the leadership of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as the church is formally known. While the U.S. Constitution says "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States," Republican candidates for the White House Mitt Romney and John Huntsman – who are both Mormons – may have more ground to make up on this issue than previously thought. Erickson, an ex-Mormon who has long been critical of the church, is not alone in her views. A June poll by the Quinnipiac Poll found 36% of Americans would be somewhat or entirely uncomfortable with a Mormon president. A June Gallup poll found 22% of Americans would not vote for an otherwise qualified Mormon candidate. There may be a silver lining for Mormon candidates though. A July poll by the Public Research Research Institute and Religion News Service, found four of ten Americans know that the Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney is a Mormon and about half (46%) said they do not know his religious affiliation. Of the 3,000,000 people who live in Iowa there are only 24,000 LDS members, according to the Deseret News' 2011 Church Almanac. The Deseret News is owned by the Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints, but is independently operated. The percentage breakdown of Mormons living in South Carolina is similar too. With so few practicing Mormons in those early primary states, voters with questions about the tenets of Mormonism may not have many places to turn to ask impolite questions about the faith, allowing rumors and speculation to go unchallenged. This year the church has gone on a PR blitz with its campaign, "I'm a Mormon." It's goal is to break Mormon stereotypes and features a diverse group church members like a motorcycle builder, an African American couple, and Latinos. They bought an electronic billboard in Times Square just down the street from the Broadway Show the "Book of Mormon.” The satirical musical features the adventures of buttoned up and earnest white Mormon missionaries in Africa. "Our Church is known for our efforts to share our message,” Richard G. Hinckley, Executive Director of the Missionary Department for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, told the Belief Blog when the ad went up. “This is one way to get to know us — through the lives of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” The campaign is set to expand to more cities this fall but The Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday the church would not be buying ads in primary states to avoid the appearance of political meddling. "We know people will draw the wrong conclusions," Michael Otterson a church spokesman told the Journal. We want to hear from you. What do you think? Does a candidate's religion play into your decision to vote for them? What matters more to you policy or theology?
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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She is a bitter apostate to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. What would we expect her to say? Why was this woman even allowed on public television? Disgraceful.
Mormonism???
A business/religious cult based on Joseph Smith's hallucinations which has bought respectability with a $30 billion business empire, the BYU "mission matured" football team and a great choir.
From: lds-mormon.com/time.shtml
"The first divergence between Mormon economics and that of other denominations is the t-ithe. Most churches take in the greater part of their income through donations. Very few, however, impose a compulsory 10% income tax on their members. Ti-thes are collected locally, with much of the money pas-sed on informally to local lay leaders at Sunday services. "By Monday," says Elbert Peck, editor of Sunstone, an independent Mormon magazine, the church authorities in Salt Lake City "know every cent that's been collected and have made sure the money is deposited in banks." There is a lot to deposit. Last year $5.2 billion in t-ithes flowed into Salt Lake City, $4.9 billion of which came from American Mormons."
"The Mormons are stewards of a different str-ipe. Their charitable spending and temple building are prodi-gious. But where other churches spend most of what they receive in a given year, the Latter-day Saints employ vast amounts of money in investments that TIME estimates to be at least $6 billion strong. Even more unusual, most of this money is not in bonds or stock in other peoples' companies but is invested directly in church-owned, for-profit concerns, the largest of which are in agribusiness, media, insurance, travel and real estate. Deseret Management Corp., the company through which the church holds almost all its commercial as-sets, is one of the largest owners of farm and ranchland in the country, including 49 for-profit parcels in addition to the Deseret Ranch. Besides the Bonneville International chain and Beneficial Life, the church owns a 52% holding in ZCMI, Utah's largest department-store chain.
All told, TIME estimates that the Latter-day Saints farmland and financial investments total some $11 billion, and that the church's nont-ithe income from its investments exceeds $600 million. "
"Members of the church celebrate the Lord's Supper with water rather than wine or gra-pe juice. They believe their President is a prophet who receives new revelations from God. These can supplant older revelations, as in the case of the church's historically most controversial doctrine: Smith himself received God's sanctioning of pol-ygamy in 1831, but 49 years later, the church's President announced its recision. Similarly, an explicit policy barring black men from holding even the lowest church offices was overturned by a new revelation in 1978, opening the way to huge missionary activity in Africa and Brazil. "
So let me get this straight. You are saying that it is a bad thing that a church is fiscally responsible and capable of balancing its books in such a way that we can send help to people around the world when tragedy strikes and take care of our own?
Imagine if we had a government as fiscally responsible and more and more people that were willing to help when it is needed. Isn't that what we all want in our government?
Imagine a government that had a surplus that could be invested back into American opportunities instead of just barely being able to pay our debt. Maybe that is a strange concept to some. But I would love to see that day.
Some observations-
Mormonism as well as Catholicism, Islam, and Judaism relied and rely on fortune ($$$$$) telling for profit and greed.
Mormonism is also a business cult using religion as a front and forced donations and "volunteer" work to advertise said business.
If the flaws of Mormonism were removed i.e. all references to Moroni and his revelations and if the flaws of Islam were removed i.e. all references to Gabriel and his revelations, there would hardly be anything left in either religion other then some version of the Commandments. Finally the start of the Utopia of Religious Convergence!!!!
Hmmm, what shall we call this potential joining? Musmors? Morms? Musmos? M&Ms? Ismors? Moisls? or Islamorms?
Hypocrisy = The practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one’s own behavior does not conform.
While Tricia Erikson claims that the LDS Church is the greatest scam in religious history, it turns out that she herself was nailed in the 1990’s for being a scam artist herself! The modeling agency she ran as President was charged in 1999 on three counts by the Federal Trade Commission for 4 years of finding people on the streets and the malls, telling them they had “the look,” and charging them expensive rates for model “training” so that they could get the “big jobs.” Unfortunately, the big jobs never came, and refunds were not given.
Ed Johnson, president of the BBB in Washington DC wrote: “The business practices of Model 1 and Creative Talent Management have single-handedly propelled the modeling industry into the Bureau’s top 10 most-inquired-about industries over the past few years. In fact, the BBB has received over 6,000 calls on Model 1 alone since it opened in June of 1998. This is significant when one considers that more calls were received in one year on Model 1 than were received on entire industries such as mortgage companies or roofers.” (Quoted in Les Henderson, Under Investigation: The Inside Story of the Florida Attorney General’s Invertigation of Wilhemlmina Scouting Network the Largest Model and Talen Scam in America (Azilda, Ontario Canada: Coyote Ridge Publishing, 2006).
The gall of some writers!
Remember to consider the source!
Adam, I wrote a book called How Can You Possibly be a Mormon and a Democrat? , which has an oigiloedcal goal of NON-partisanship.Anyway, I'd like to strike up a bit of a correspondence with you.
I know others that are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are mad at CNN for letting Tricia Erickson be on air as a person with knowledge against the Mormon church. Personally I hope they continue to put people like her on the show as she makes herself and other opponents look like fools.
You can even hear the disgust in the interviewers voice, at the end, as he is just baffled at her rhetoric and inability to follow a conversation with a clear answer, or even simply an answer to the actual question.
Please keep people like this coming. If people are foolish enough to take merit in the propaganda she is conveying then I hope for their families sake, they never have a salesman approach their door with prime real estate opportunities in the Statue of Liberty, Florida Everglades, or the Brooklyn bridge. As their family will suffer the consequences of their inability to see a lie for what it is.
The thing I found most interesting is she was supposed to put the Mormon church on the defensive but it was her in the end that was on the defense. A weak foundation never stands.
A true debate between two real apologetics, although needed, wouldn't be nearly as entertaining or get under the nerves of so many people so easily; so I find it unlikely a true discussion above elementary name calling will ever be brought to light.
There is an article that I always love to read; it is in all its goals meant to motivate people to a true debate as to why the "Mormon" church is wrong but the article is always a good reminder of why people like Tricia look so silly.
Mormon Scholarship, Apologetics, and Evangelical Neglect: Losing the Battle and Not Knowing It
http://www.cephasministry.com/mormon_apologetics_losing_battle.html
"A third conclusion we have come to is that currently there are, as far as we are aware, no books from an evangelical perspective that responsibly interact with contemporary LDS scholarly and apologetic writings. In a survey of twenty recent evangelical books criticizing Mormonism we found that none interact with this growing body of literature. Only a handful demonstrate any awareness of pertinent works. Many of the authors promote criticisms that have long been refuted; some are sensationalistic while others are simply ridiculous. A number of these books claim to be "the definitive" book on the matter. That they make no attempt to interact with contemporary LDS scholarship is a stain upon the authors' integrity and causes one to wonder about their credibility.
Our fourth conclusion is that at the academic level evangelicals are losing the debate with the Mormons. We are losing the battle and do not know it. In recent years the sophistication and erudition of LDS apologetics has risen considerably while evangelical responses have not. Those who have the skills necessary for this task rarely demonstrate an interest in the issues. Often they do not even know that there is a need. In large part this is due entirely to ignorance of the relevant literature."
I am not a perfect member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints but I sure love being a member of it. Rock on Hugh Nibley... Rock on.
I hadn't heard of the site or challenge ofrbee reading your post (thanks for sharing!); I've signed up now. I've also put up a special offer for challenge participants: for only the cost of shipping. (This is the complete text of the Book of Mormon recast in paragraph form. It's also available for download in text and PDF formats.) Some might find it easier to read in a more traditional novel-like format.
What Mormon's believe: The Articles of Faith
1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority to preach the gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say we follow the admonitions of Paul–We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things. Joseph Smith
In all my voting years I have looked at the individuals who were running for office, for their intelligence, integrity and then leadership-not what religion or church they were associated with or how much money they had. I also agree with James Bishops comment.
This lady took so many things out of context and spun it so badly. Why CNN gave her 5 seconds let alone 5 minutes is ridiculous. She didn't say one truthful thing and never answered a question posed to her. Since we have heard that side of the story, please put someone on your station that is Mormon and let them answer the same questions asked to her. That is called giving both sides of the story and fair journalism.
I am glad the commentator had the good sense to ask this woman to give one example of which she could not, of any Mormom (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) who has used any Religious doctrine to move him forward in any political arena.
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and I am looking forward to the day when "ANY" MORAL leader will be the president of the United States. We all should be looking for some morals in life for the betterment of our society, and our children. Thank you CNN for this responsible broadcast.
James Bishop
Murrieta, California
I totally agree with James Bishop. Mitt Romney and John Huntsman do have high morals. Tricia had no good ground to stand on. The points she made had nothing to do with a Mormon presidents actually presidency. So what if he believes he will be a god after this life? That has nothing to do with his actually politics. She was only quarreling about Mormon doctrines. Obviously, she personally has a prejudice against the church and its doctrines and that was all she could use to defend herself. She only wants to show the world how terrible she thinks The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is and she is taking it out on two innocent men who are trying to do good by running for President. She is not affiliated with them in any way and she is trying to ruin them and the church.
To Ted and Eric:
How DARE you even use a comparison of Hilter to Mormons. To even insinuate any such idea is insulting, inappropriate and uncalled for. There is a fine line and you just crossed it. Shame on you!
Mormons are not the ones spewing hate. They are the ones being attacked and labeled in an absurd suggestion of conspiracy. Since your brought up Hilter, wasn't it Hilter who accused the Jews of conspiracy and ridiculed their beliefs? You are the ones following the classic example of Hitler through your false accusations and attacks on Mormons.
Quite simple. You expect rational thinking from a person who says that America is a founded Christian nation. Yet their LDS churchs very existence is based on restoring a dead Chrisianity. Cnnot have it both ways. One is a lie.
RE: CSX. The LDS church is intent not on restoring "a dead christianity," but on indoctrinating a population with a completely fabricated account of christian history. Historical Christianity never had endowments, never taught that Satan and Jesus were brothers who came from a planet near a star called Kolob, never taught that before humans are physically born, they are begotten as spirit children who have to prove their obedience to LDS doctrine, otherwise they will bear the mark of Cain(a dark skin) when physically born.
To say that LDS beliefs are not of the Christian mainstream, is like saying that Hitler was not an orthodox Jew.
Any adult who eagerly embraces these ludicrous beliefs, as Romney proudly does, should not legitimately be considered Presidential timbre.
Don't know if anyone will see this in all the nonsense that is posted here but I hope someone will. Yes people, Mormons do believe that they can become God's and rule their own planet and they do believe that they are to take over the governing of this planet now. For a reasonable people, It is a frightening thing to have someone that thinks like that running our government. Will you really support a man that believes he is part of the chosen supreme race that should reign and rule over all of us lesser beings? I frankly don't like the Hitler complex on anyone Mormon or not.
Hey Ted,
You are free to make up stories all you wish, but you are not free to make up your facts. Get an education and learn the facts about what Mormons believe and then feel free to express an opinion on those facts. Please do your due diligence and make sure your education comes from current, practicing Mormons, not pastors of other faiths, or anti-Mormon lit, or from the good ol' Journal of Discourses which holds a lot of opinions and speculation rather than doctrine. Just repeating rehashed and tired anti-Mo falsities isn't going to cut it anymore.
For the purposes of the Presidency, the question is not whether Mormons are theologically the same as Evangelicals, the question is whether being a Mormon creates character traits that should disqualify someone from being nominated and elected President. Obviously, there are similarities and differences in doctrine, but the question is about the CHARACTER TRAITS of the candidate.
Mormons are known for their strong Family Values, their Honesty and Work Ethic, a strong sense of Personal Responsibility and Citizenship, and are highly educated (According to the Pew Religious Landscape Survey, Mormons have a higher education level than Protestants and Catholics, which makes allegations of "brainwashed" Mormons very dubious indeed). All of these traits – including the focus on higher education -come from Mormon belief and teaching.
The question is not about theology, but rather qualifying characteristics.
I also like to point out who the real morons are here. The same ignorant imbecile"s who rely on other ignorant imbecile"s for their information rather than getting the truth from the source!
Reiteration is great for the learning process. As is reading and rational thinking followed by conclusions based on all of it.
A response to the "Response":
The Apostles' (Saints') Creed 2011: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians during the past 200 years)
I might believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven.
I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)
Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,
He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
Jerusalem.
Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.
Amen
People are spending way too much time worrying about our candidates faith. I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (a Mormon), but that doesn't dictate who I will vote for at all. I'm not going to vote for Mitt Romney unless I agree with his political view. I will vote for the candidate who will better our country's economy and strength. Not where they spend their Sunday's.End of story.
The fact that Americans have to ask the question, "which is more important, policy or theology?" is exactly what is wrong with American politics. It does not matter. Separate church and state. The idea that a Mormon could not be president because their beliefs are outlandish is hypocritical. All religions have beliefs that when looked at objectively are very off the wall. The woman in this broadcast is a fool.
She kind of reminded me of a snake . The Bible represents Satan as a snake. Hmmmmm.
The last paragraph asked what is important in a candidate – his religious beliefs or his policy. To me, what matters most is actually 3 things: a candidate's policies, his/her political ideology (or lack thereof) and his/her integrity. If a political candidate's lifestyle, actions & choices – both in personal and political life – indicate that he/she sincerely tries to follow whatever religion he/she professes, and if I generally agree with his/her political views, I will likely vote for that candidate. If not, I will have great reservations about doing the same. When it comes down to President, Congress and state officers, I will vote for whoever I consider to be the better candidate that the 2 major parties have nominated, since in all practicality, voting for a 3rd-party candidate amounts to throwing away my vote (and usually helping to throw the election to the candidate I least prefer).
When I was a kid, during the campaign for President between Richard Nixon & John F Kennedy (yes, that dates me), there were a lot of fears expressed that if Kennedy won, we would be dictated to by Rome (i.e. the Catholic church.) Even as a kid, I knew that was a ridiculous argument, and so it turned out to be – ridiculous.
This lady has no idea what the Mormons believe, I do not believe i'm going to get a planet and in heaven the children that I have in heaven will be the children that I had here on this earth. I will not be having more children in heaven. She is not telling truth she is telling lies.
no you are................stamping my foot now...... we can all read.if you dont believe it you are not a mormon. the battle of inbred cousins is amusing though.
Is anyone aware that despite mormon doctrine, this is a religion and a people that held our Government to the task of supporting its "freedom of religion" claims. It was until maybe 10 or 15 years ago that the state of Missouri finally lifted it's"extermination of mormons" order of the 1800's. In fact, the Governor himself was unaware of it's existence until it was brought to his attention by a Mormon leader visiting the state. If anyone will understand the rights of the oddity and his rights to believe and do what he wants with in the bounds of the law, I think it would be someone who comes from a heritage that lived through a time when it was not really a point of discussion in the general public.
Read the "Book of Morman". Then comment.
Everyone is defending Mormans, thinking they are defending Christianity. There is no resemblance
First of all the name is Mormon not Morman and the proper name of this religion is The Church of JESUS CHRIST of latter day saints. Obviously you know absolutely nothing about this religion and have not read the Book of Mormon. If you had, you would realize it is a testament of Jesus Christ and therefore is completely relevant to Christianity. Please take your own and advice and read the book....
The correct description of Mormons is "morons". What a scam. Read _Under The Banner of Heaven_ by Jon Krakauer for a good expose of the religion that this presidential candidate Romney actually is part of. Scary stuff.
http://www.amazon.com/Under-Banner-Heaven-Story-Violent/dp/0385509510
Produce the golden tablets, Moroni.
I'm sick and tired of these so called professed Christians thinking with their holier than thou mentality, that they have been authorized by Jesus Christ, "The Only Judge", that they can pronounce judgement upon Mormons whether or not they're Christian. Let's just consider for a moment for arguments sake that only Christians go to heaven. If so, can you tell me where the Saints of God go?
Gozer, Under the Banner of Heaven is not about Mormons, it is about the Fundamental LDS, a group that broke off over a century ago. Just as one would not mistake a Protestant for a Catholic, we should not mistake the group in that book for Romney's church.
Nope, Socrates, the book is about Mormons generally. Give it a read.
Krakauer didn't delve into the mormon church in general – only those portions of mormon history that primarily with polygamy. He also discusses some of the more unseemly events in the church's history. The book does not give an accurate representation of the history of the mormon church.
A book that is about the mormon religion, or Church of Jesus Christ of LDS as some would like to call it, is "No Man Knows My History," by Fawn M. Brodie. It is a biography of Joseph Smith and describes in very readable detail not only the type of person Joseph Smith was, but the LDS doctrine which he invented. Ms. Brodie was a niece of Mormon President, David McKay. She was excommunicated for writing this book. It first came out in 1945, and nearly 70 years later is undisputably the best biography of Joseph Smith.
David, right. The Bible states Jesus is God. Mormonism is not Christian. Mormons worship a different god.