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 Seeing the wrath of God in natural disasters was once commonplace.
August 28th, 2011
04:56 PM ET
My Take: God no longer in the whirlwind
By Stephen Prothero, Special to CNN As I am riding out Hurricane Irene on Cape Cod, I cannot help thinking about how differently New Englanders in colonial times interpreted these natural disasters. While we speak of the eye of the hurricane, they were ever mindful of the eye of a God who was watching over them, and sending storms their way as punishment for their collective sins. A fierce debate among academics about secularization theory–the view that societies will become less religious as they modernize–seems to have been won by the skeptics. Yes, secularization of a sort is happening, but only in certain places (western Europe, most notably). And it seems to be reversible (see the United States today vs. the United States in the 1970s). So simple versions of secularization theory seem just plain wrong. However, one place where American society, at least, plainly seems to be growing less religious is in the realm of natural disasters. When the Great Colonial Hurricane raced up the east coast and lashed New England in August 1635, its 130 mph winds and 21-foot storm surge were almost universally viewed in supernatural rather than natural terms—as a judgment of God on the unfaithful. We still have Puritans among us today, of course. Pat Robertson is notorious for turning natural disasters such as the Haiti earthquake and Hurricane Katrina into supernatural communications—God’s curse on Haiti or New Orleans for bad religion or widespread abortions. And on the radio a couple days ago I heard a talk show host suggest that the one-two punch of the recent earthquake and hurricane were two thumbs down from God on the leadership of Barack Obama. Still, American society as a whole no longer interprets natural disasters as signs of some coming apocalypse or evidence of some past misdeeds. And those that do (Robertson, for example) we generally regard as cranks and outliers—relics of a bygone age. Some say science and religion are engaged in a battle for the soul of America. I don’t buy that. I know there are bitter divisions over evolution and creationism, for example. But there are all sorts of spiritual arenas where science is mum, and vice versa. Science and religion run on parallel tracks far more often than those tracks intersect. Hurricanes and earthquakes are one arena, however, where the language of science has almost entirely routed the language of theology. Psalms 107:25-33 reads: “For he commandeth, and raiseth the stormy wind, which lifteth up the waves thereof. . . . He turneth rivers into a wilderness, and the watersprings into dry ground." Today, the overwhelming majority of Americans—including the overwhelming majority of American Christians—believe that when God has something to say He speaks in less dramatic ways, including the still small voices in our hearts and the slightly louder voices of the preachers in our pulpits. When it comes to earthquakes and hurricanes, however, our authorities are geologists and meteorologists. Most of us interpret these events not through the rumblings of the biblical prophet Jeremiah or the poetry of the Book of Revelation but through the scientific truths of air pressure and tectonic plates. As a result of this sort of secularization, we are much better at predicting the course of hurricanes. The Great Colonial Hurricane of 1635 arrived as a surprise and took many lives with it, including, according to the report of the Massachusetts governor John Winthrop, those of eight Native Americans taken by the storm surge while “flying from their wigwams.” So we are better prepared, thank science. Our stories are far less dramatic, however. The overwhelming majority of Americans believe in God. But their God no longer acts out his fury as in Bible days. Our storms have not yet been tamed. But our God has. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Stephen Prothero. soundoff (2,530 Responses)1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Editor's Note: Stephen Prothero, a Boston University religion scholar and author of "God is Not One: The Eight Rival Religions that Run the World," is a regular CNN Belief Blog contributor.
At the end of the day man is accountable to God and not the other way around.
what else, look how man thinks he is getting intelligent by the day and he is now a spokesperson for God himself and take verses out of context to write an article and interpret on his behalf...
True, how could he be?
I wouldn't be so sure of that if I were you. This being called god has more to answer for than you might expect.
@byrd you should really read Job..... He got his day in court.
Why doesn't He just tell us what SPECIFICALLY he wants from us. And if you say "The 10 Commandments" I expect to see all good Christians out stoning people to death who are working on Sunday. Now let's get crackin!
It does tell those who are seriously interested what it requires of us. It doesn't necessarily always speak or write through those that claim to be its intermediaries. That doesn't mean they were always wrong either. Just because we are so very ignorant of the big picture and often only want to see it in our own egotistical self centered way, does not mean it has a lot to answer for; it only means we need to grow up and try to understand the big picture more than we usually do. We are not the measure. Contrary to some ignorant philosopher's or salesman's idea, our perception is not reality. Only It's peception is reality, and its way beyond our ability to fully grasp, though we still should try to understand as much as we can and work from there..
@Perspective
Hey there -Perspective... I wrote to you below, and since I enjoyed your posting and writing back, I thought I would respond to you here too.
You Said: " It does tell those who are seriously interested what it requires of us. "
Curious if you would elaborate a bit more on that.
You Said: " Our perception is not reality. " 😀
Are you familiar with Dr. Alfred Korzybski's work...? His notion of the concept of the "Map is not the Territory" really fits here as to what you are saying. REALITY is so infinitely vast that we can only take in and re-present 'mental maps' or perceptions of what we 'believe' to out there. There have been a lot of studies done in perception and cognition in relationship to beliefs/perceptions as they form what we perceive externally. So, on one level... our 'perceptions' while not being REALITY, certainly do guide and govern our thoughts, behaviors and actions in relationship to our own personal interaction with the outside world.
So, Korzybski's...."The Map is not the Territory" really makes sense when it comes to understanding that our 'mental maps' are just guides... they are not the actual 'Territory' that they represent. Example: a map of Texas is 'not' Texas. The map can only give a very general approximation of what the REALITY of Texas is REALLY like.
You Said: " Only *It's* peception is reality, and its way beyond our ability to fully grasp, though we still should try to understand as much as we can and work from there.. "
Now 'that' is a whole other discussion for a whole other time.
Regards,
Peace brother...
At the end of the day, man made up god.
Man is accountable to the reality we live in... no more no less.
@Peace2All
I Said: " It does tell those who are seriously interested what it requires of us. "
What I meant is that we get from anything,, based on what effort what put into it; and we understand, only if we want to. Like the Beatles song "The End" says "And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love, you make". A lot come across on here like they don't want to make any effort, and tet they act as if its required that everyone else should be the same way, for their own self serving satisfaction.
I Said: " Our perception is not reality. "
You asked: Are you familiar with Dr. Alfred Korzybski's work...? His notion of the concept of the "Map is not the Territory" really fits here as to what you are saying. REALITY is so infinitely vast that we can only take in and re-present 'mental maps' or perceptions of what we 'believe' to out there. There have been a lot of studies done in perception and cognition in relationship to beliefs/perceptions as they form what we perceive externally. So, on one level... our 'perceptions' while not being REALITY, certainly do guide and govern our thoughts, behaviors and actions in relationship to our own personal interaction with the outside world.
So, Korzybski's...."The Map is not the Territory" really makes sense when it comes to understanding that our 'mental maps' are just guides... they are not the actual 'Territory' that they represent. Example: a map of Texas is 'not' Texas. The map can only give a very general approximation of what the REALITY of Texas is REALLY like.
PERSPECTIVE: Sorry, I have not read the author to whom you refer. My statement is based on more practical experience in the computer programming industry, where salesmen and managers would always toss around the phrase, more often than desired, that "perception is reality", as if it were more important to make customers think you had actually done the things requested, than to actually do them. I guess their idea was that by the time people really found out they faked it, they'd be promoted and you'd still be stuck with the resulting mess. So their perception (reality) was that it wasn't their problem if no one found out while they were in charge. I had other ideas about such situations. It just got me to thinking that if the statement was true in any regards, then who or what's perception would be reality. I agree that what you say is the same concept.
I Said: " Only *It's* peception is reality, and its way beyond our ability to fully grasp, though we still should try to understand as much as we can and work from there.. "
You said: Now 'that' is a whole other discussion for a whole other time.
PERSPECTIVE: At one time science and religion were two branches of the same philosophical tree and still should be. We in the west, in our effort to scientifically disect everything to its smallest part, forgot that the "reality" is.... that to fully understand it properly, everything must still work together as a whole. ONE. True science and true religion can not be in opposition to each other like so many try to make them, No wonder so many are confused and throw up their philosophical hands and leave the room to watch a scripted "reality" shows on TV. It is also the cause of so much mental illness.
Another lesson I learned from computer programming. Back in the 80's we started stuctured programming where you organize a program from the top down, like some might think "God" does, and then break each piece of logic into its smallest most understandable part, so the simplest of humans can understand such parts. The problem that most often resulted was that people could understand the small parts just fine, but like western science, lost sight of the whole and couldn't understand how it all was supposed to work together on the grand scale. How we out smart ourselves sometimes.
Complex subjects will always require complex minds and we will have to accept that others may not ever fully understand, making up allegories, parables, metaphors etc. to help them do so. Those literary tools may not be precise scientific language, but they still carry at least some truth to start and work with. The people in parables were not necessarily meant to be historical people before the parables could be considered to be true. This generally is why there are so many religions, denominations, philosophies, etc. That and the fact that we all lead vastly different lives, where ourastly different experiences shape our perceptions differently. Only tolerance and understanding will improve the situation, though that should never be a reason to drop critcical yet respectful thought, or tradition and personal ideas without careful consideration.
Thanks for the invitation to try and make sense of it all.
Regards,
Peace to all someday hopefully
From the Article:
" Today, the (overwhelming majority of Americans)—including the *overwhelming majority of American Christians*—now believe that when God has something to say He speaks in less dramatic ways, including the still small voices in our hearts and the slightly louder voices of the preachers in our pulpits. "
I find this interesting. To all 'believers' on this blog... do you agree or disagree...?
Regards,
Peace...
God speaks any way He pleases.
There are no restrictions on His capabilities...
Is God speaking through preachers standing on the pulpit? Good question... If the person speaking from the pulpit is commited to pursuing holiness, then I believe that they are speaking for God.
Do I think there are a lot of preachers that aren't pursuing holiness? Uh, YES!!! That's why we see people confused by actions of catholic priests abusing kids, and those greedy preachers... they are the wolves... tearing the flock apart... confusing people is the plot of the adversary.... always!
@Kingdome Come
Hey -King C... It's been awhile, I hope that you are well.
So... how does one 'really' know if God is sending an earthquake/hurricane, etc... because he's mad, or it's just a natural phenomena...?
I see an awful lot of people on these blogs that are claiming a lot of the calamities that are happening are a result of God being mad at our terrible/sinful society, etc...
Curious...?
Regards,
Peace...
God speaks to me through my tennis shoe. And you can't call me crazy, because it's MY belief. How crazy is yours?
I dont think there is any reason t argue these points as your relationship with God is very personal and intimate. yes, God has and does speak in many varied ways through time, but just as He revealed Himself in the Old Testament He did so in a very different way in the New Testament. There certainly are and have been preachers that misuse and misunderstand the Word and therefore are poisonous to those they minister to. We all need to study God's Word and ask the Holy Spirit to guide us. Satan will abuse any opportunity he has to be a false witness. Unfortunately, we seem to stereotype this fear with "satan" from the image we get from the movies of a southern baptist preacher telling satan to "be gone" and often people scoff at this.
The truth is stated in the Bible and Satan is real, but just not that red horned "thing" we often portray. Before criticizing the Bible, read it with an open heart and see what God reveals to you. It is a gift that is worth more than all the treasures on Earth. The Bible is a love story about God's ultimate love for us and sacrifice for us. It really is sad to hear so many "jokes" and petty remarks about One that truly loved the world......
@Perry
" God speaks to me through my tennis shoe. And you can't call me crazy, because it's MY belief. How crazy is yours? "
Who are you posting to here...?
Regards,
Peace...
@E=MC2
Hey there ENERGY=MASS x the SPEED of LIGHT squared !
Nice to meet you !
You Said: " I dont think there is any reason to argue these points as your relationship with God is very personal and intimate. "
I understand and appreciate your comment. And, it becomes a very valid 'discussion' vs. argument, where we have many who claim a cause/effect relationship between natural phenomena (and in these cases 'natural disasters') and to the 'why' God does so. It usually revolves around God is doing it because He is mad/teaching us a lesson, etc...
So, my question really is valid in the context of this discussion in that "how 'does' one know when God is sending doom and destruction, vs. it's just the Earth doing it's thing, as in natural phenomena...?
You Said: " Yes, God has and does speak in many varied ways through time, but just as He revealed Himself in the Old Testament He did so in a very different way in the New Testament. "
Now here is where, IMHO, you begin to drift into personal opinion. Which is o.k. It's just the way you start your statement, makes it almost sound as if it is 'fact' vs. opinion in reality... *outside of the literal Biblical narrative story as it is written.
You Said: " There certainly are and have been preachers that misuse and misunderstand the Word and therefore are poisonous to those they minister to. We all need to study God's Word and ask the Holy Spirit to guide us. Satan will abuse any opportunity he has to be a false witness. Unfortunately, we seem to stereotype this fear with "satan" from the image we get from the movies of a southern baptist preacher telling satan to "be gone" and often people scoff at this. "
Again, I can assume that the ministers that are directly harming people, i.e. pedophile priests, etc... those are easy calls.
However, with ~38,000 denominations and distinctions of Christianity, how do you know what is 'the truth.'...? Given that I understand that your relationship with God is personal etc...
You Said: " The truth is stated in the Bible and *Satan is real* "
You 'could' possibly be right, but as your statement stands, you are stating as if *Satan is fact,* you are now getting into the world of speculative *opinion.*
My question to you is... outside of the Bible, 'how' specifically do you know that 'Satan is real'...? The Bible may say so, or make some reference to it, but then we are getting into 'circular reasoning' here.
You Said: " The Bible is a love story about God's ultimate love for us and sacrifice for us. It really is sad to hear so many "jokes" and petty remarks about One that truly loved the world......"
I'm certainly sorry if somehow some people can be insensitive to your faith. And, at the same time, to be fair, what you may perceive as a "Love Story by God" and take it "literally" others perceive it at best, a book of fiction, with some good words of wisdom now and then, to at worst, a book of an insane deity who demands obedience, among other ridiculous things, and... sent 'himself' to die for 'us' as we are 'broken' and 'flawed'/sinful' creations, and by sending his-self...if... we just 'believe' we go to eternal paradise with him.
If we live our lives, but just don't happen to "believe" then somehow this is just something this all-loving, all-powerful deity can't stand, and will send us to the 'lake of fire' for eternal torment.
Certainly, you can understand that this just doesn't make any sense for a supposedly all-loving God beyond our comprehension, to have this happen. And... no changing your mind after death. Ya' gotta' believe now !
Sorry, while I respect your right to believe, I certainly don't have to respect 'what' you believe.
You Said: " Before criticizing the Bible, read it with an open heart and see what God reveals to you. It is a gift that is worth more than all the treasures on Earth. "
I have read the Bible many, many times. From the time I was 4 until my 20's I considered myself a Christian. God, has had many chances to reveal something different to me through my 'open heart.'
It is because of these vast years of study...and...study of other religions besides Christianity, etc... that I have come to the conclusion IMHO that the Christian narrative is not for me.
Respectfully,
Peace...
It is natural phenomena. Miracles and the supernatural are just things our puny minds do not yet comprehend. Of course each person has their own level of comprehension though. Consider all the things we have today as part of normal every day life, that would have been considered miraculous 2000 or more years ago. To be the supreme power, nothing can exist outside of it. Therefore It is all, has power over all and everything is an act of It (an act of God). Being limited by our human state, we have not ever properly known all of Its laws no matter what some human wrote or said, and we will continue to have issues understanding until we do. We probably never will know all of It's law. So we will probably always have such issues of understanding. We are so much better off if we keep trying to understand though....kind of humorous and childish to continue blaming It for our own inability to understand.
@Perspective
Hey -Perspective... I'm not sure who your posting was for... or maybe for all on this thread...?
Either way, I wanted to respond.
You Said: " It is natural phenomena. Miracles and the supernatural are just things our puny minds do not yet comprehend. "
I would basically agree with your statement above. The 'goal posts' of 'miracles' and the 'supernatural' continue to get moved, so 'new' questions get asked, as science seems to answer the 'previous' questions.
I'm not sure if it's that "puny minds do not comprehend" or that a lot of people aren't willing to give up their old world-views yet....? Or maybe a bit of both.
You Said: " To be the supreme power, nothing can exist outside of it. Therefore It is all, has power over all and everything is an act of It (an act of God). "
We are obviously treading into philosophical/Metaphysical speculation here, but I'll play. I believe that I understand what you are saying here. However, you might have a lot of Christians that will be after you who like to create a 'separate' and 'apart' Deity that they can give powers and attributes to, to suit their purposes.
To me, what you are saying in a way is a sort of *philosophical solipsistic* viewpoint, however, in a much, much more broader sense than the term -solipsism- is used. In reference to your comment...."ALL is Everything" and 'nothing' can or does exist outside of the "ALL" as there is 'nothing else' but the "ALL," is something that comes fairly close to, if I had to try and put into words something that encompasses my ever-evolving world-view... it would be something of that nature.
I like to look to the sciences as well, and see, especially what 'quantum physics' has to say about these things, and QT seems to support, at this point, the views we are 'currently' espousing. QT literally find -0- separation from "All that is." There is 'nothing' else. Just different manifestations of the ALL. Quantum Entanglement certainly explains 'a lot' of these so-called 'supernatural' phenomena and 'miracles.'
You Said: " Being limited by our human state, we have not ever properly known all of Its laws no matter what some human wrote or said, and we will continue to have issues understanding until we do. "
I think the use of the term 'understanding' is an ongoing and never-ending process (at least that's my hope, anyway).
You Said: " We probably never will know all of It's law. So we will probably always have such issues of understanding. We are so much better off if we keep trying to understand though "
I agree... constant and never-ending evolvement, and understanding.
Good speaking with you -Perspective... I sincerely hope that you come back and continue our discussion.
Regards,
Peace brother....
@Peace2All
I was posting for all based on several responses.
I think a lot of religion is tradition based on experience and reaction, sometimes primitive and uninformed, and its hard to break free from that without upending families sometimes. Believe me I know. Honor thy father and they mother, can just as easily mean know your religious and ancestral past, pay it some respect, but don't forget to grow the way Jesus did as well. He didn't exactly make the religious establishment happy, if anyone has read the Gospels and noticed anything more that the miracles, they understand that. Keep in mind that evolution occurred in religion too, and must continue. I truly doubt it will be done away with, since it obviously plays a role in so many lives. It will be made more sensible long before its done away with.
As far as having Christains after me here, no worry. They aren't true Christains. We are a part of God, not apart from God. Purely my speculation, but I think being created "within God's image" makes so much more sense than being made to look like God. I'd rather have sense, than the ego trip. In and within could easily be a translation issue of some kind. "Within" is in line with other religions that try to make sense of life here on earth, instead saying it was never intended to be sensible here, so do what we say no matter how illogical to get to the next life,
I also believe I heard that the word religion, is derived from the Latin word that means to relink. Therefore, those that want to have a magical personality somewhere out there, are really destroying the true purpose of religion by separating us from God, instead of confirming and appreciating our bond with It.
Quantum Physics is a test of anyones logic, at least from what I've read. To take the idea that things get so small, we can no longer predict what will happen because our act of observing them changes them, so things aren't logical at that level is bull. We aren't the measure of what's logical. Just because we haven't figured it out, doesn't mean its not logical. Perception again. Also there's talk of other universes, which is bunk. It's the same universe, just a parts we don't know yet. Only one universe/God. The big bang really isn't the beginning either. There's now talk of the universe expanding and contracting, just like the Hindu and other non-Christain scriptures say, indicating the universe dying and being reborn, over and over. What does it really mean to every day llife anyway. Carl Sagan's example of flat land on COSMOS could be used to explain miracles, UFOs, etc etc.
Good speaking with you -Perspective... I sincerely hope that you come back and continue our discussion.
Regards,
Peace brother....
@Peace2All, Sorry for the confusion. After rereading this thread, I think I was addressing my comment to the writer of the article you quoted. And more broadly now to anyone who thinks that the creator of the entire universe speaks to them, either directly or indirectly. Humans are capable of drawing conclusions of the world they perceive around them without thinking The Great Kazoo is directing them.
@Perry
No problem, bro... I understand.
@Perspective
Thanks again for playing with ideas and concepts with me.
Regards,
Peace...
Well Stephen Prothero (this author) is using rationale (should I say – at least?) to paint his viewpoint.
He hasn't used fear – I'm surprised. But he's still only offering his opinion – not facts.
...and we arrive at facts by weighing opinions.
God is not IN the whirlwind, he is always there 'after' to help with the 'healing'
I like that. But you don't need a deity to witness the inherent goodwill of humans. It is just as much a part of our physiology as it is to nurture our children, and most all mammals accomplish that (as well as goodwill to their own kind) without so much as the knowledge of a god.
It is in It all whether we know It in It's entirity or not.
So many times we say things like, "God wouldnt do that because..." or "Well, I don't believe in a god who would...". We tend to judge what God would and would not do based on what we would and we would not do. Do we ever stop to think that maybe God is not like us? Heres a radical thought, maybe the being who is intelligent and sophisticated enough to design a universe or two has a more developed higher since of justice than us. Just a thought.... This is why I don't struggle as much as others with passages in the Bible where God tells the Israelites to kill men, women, and children. Me personally, I would not do such a thing. But God is not like me! God is so above me in his thinking, and the way he sees things that it is pure arrogance to bring him down to my level. Could it be possible the he who has no beginning and no end knows something that I don't? I swear, common sense is seeming more and more like a super power these days.
So, the question is simple: How can you be a moral person who (as you have admitted) follow an immoral god?
The major flaw in your question is that you made the judgment that God is immoral based on your own morals. God is not on your level. Don't put him there.
sheetiron,
Fact is, you (or anyone) know not one thing about this "God" - Not. One. Single. Thing.
*but you keep saying that you do...
You missed my entire point.
Thats exactly what I'm saying. The book of Romans calls compares us to pieces of clay in the hands of God(the potter). So me or you trying to explain him is like the piece of clay trying to explain to the other pieces of clay what the potter is like.... Kinda pointless.
You are right. None of us know what God is like. So its arrogant to say such assertive comments as, "God is no longer in the whirlwind".
So Sheetiron, no matter what kind of atrocities God commits in the Old Testament, they can all be brushed aside with "Well, he's smarter than us, so he must know what he's doing"?
It is the universe; creating, destroying, recreating itself every second of every day. We shouldn't confuse primitive man's justifications of their self preseving attrocities or other such ego trips with It's rule or intent; if we must though, perhaps we should look at It's retribution through things like the destruction of the mass murder's temples, their dispersal as captives throughout the world, the holocaust etc. as perhaps It's reward for such action. What goes around comes around, so to speak. Perhaps more could be learned if we could comprehend the big picture more. (and please don't see this as a reason to continue such cycles – we need to learn from them and do better – all of us)
It's called faith and belief because there are no facts. Nobody knows what's on the other side. But the world is swayed by the rantings of people who tell us what to do based on a book written by men about something we cannot prove exists. This is irrational. It's like treating a disease with a spell from a nursery rhyme. And the results are the same: the patient dies.
Unlike your ignorant assumption, faith is not belief without proof. It's trust without reservation.
People have faith everyday and don't realize it. I had faith in my brakes this morning when I had faith that when I pressed the brake peddle my car would slow down and stop. Sure, I know that the brake system in my car is a proven mechanical device but at that time I could not see my brakes, nor could I know for sure that they were working properly. I simply had faith.
People do the same thing when they fly. They have faith in the pilot. Sure, they know that pilots are trained professionals who know how to properly fly and land an aircraft. At that time however, they have no way of knowing if the person flying the plane is indeed a trained pilot or an idiot who doesn't know what he is doing. They have faith.
@sheetiron
i disagree. Faith IS belief without proof.
you said, "People do the same thing when they fly. They have faith in the pilot.".
No, it is not. It is probability. You see, most people base their conclusions based on what they know about the world. In the case of pilots, I know that they have to pass many tests, have to spend many years as a co-pilot, learning from an experienced one and have spent many years actually flying the model of plane that I'm on. Can they make a mistake? Absolutely. Can they be incompetent? Yep. But the odds are low enough that I don't worry about it. Just like how I don't worry about getting hit by a bolt of lighting or having a pane of glass fall on me or how I don't worry about becoming a robbery victim.
The odds are also very low that my brakes would fail since i know the science/testing that has gone behind it. You cannot equate knowing the ODDS on something to BLIND faith. I would never bet u that i would win the lottery tomorrow, why? cause the odds are astronomically against me! However, i would bet u that my brakes wouldn't fail tomorrow, cause i know the odds are that they won't.
you cannot apply this same kind of thinking to an invisible god. So your trust without reservation point is moot. Trust what?? So u pray to god that u will make it to work safely today, the odds are that u will. How do u know it was god who answered ur prayer or if it was just that the ODDS were highly in ur favor to make it to work safely? U pray to god to win the lottery, god won't answer ur prayer! get it? There is no way u can prove a god exists because we cannot test ur claims, so faith is belief without proof. It is not trust in a god, because we cannot show that the god exists.
@sheetiron – the difference is that our 'faith' in brakes and aeroplanes is based on empirical eveidence that they exist and work (most of the time). Faith in gods is based on delusion because empirical and historical evidence shows that they're made up, and prayer does nothing. Believing BS doesn't make it true.
All these objections are mostly pointless and rather redundant. After all, a man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an argument.
sheetiron, our arguments are redundant because religion is irrelevant. We beat our head against a wall trying to find rationality in those that are blinded by faith. I don't ask your religion to save me, so don't ask my science to save you. Join the Amish! 🙂
Trying to figure out what the point of the article was...
Pretty sure they were trying to shake the faith of a few christians with this article...trying to say that its ok to beleive that storms are not a punishment from God....and they are right though...God is not in control of the weather and he does not make people do horrible things. God is loving and is trying to prove that man cannot govern himself...look at what we have done to the earth....our countries fight amongst themselves all the time...no single government has ended poverty or disease or food shortages. Gods kingdom shall do all of these things...and we are close.
Seemed like the point of the article was that some may be trying to grow a bit more compassionate, but the responses to the article keep getting hung up on how our small concept of It, makes it very difficult for any popular view point to make sense of It. If a concept of It doesn't make sense, it could be we that are lacking.
To claim It doesn't have to make sense only leads to confused thought, mantal illness etc. Personally, I believe in order and reason whether I fully undrestand it all or not. So I prefer to try to make sense of It, rather than throwing up my hands and saying I don't know, I'm done, you have to be done too.
Mal.3:6 " I the Lord do not change.
The Godhead are also eternal, all belong to the order of eternity. The Father is eternal James 1:17, the Son is eternal Hebrews 13:8 " Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever." Micah 5:2 " speaking of Jesus-whose goings forth are from old (ancient times) from everlasting (from eternity)" the Holy Spirit is eternal Heb. 9:14.Jn.2:24 God is spirit.
If He remains the same then we must ask ourselves the question... "Why do we believe He has changed; that He would not punish us with disasters?" We are the ones who have changed and have tried to make the Word of God into what WE want it to be instead of what it truly is.... everlasting and eternal.... never changing...
It is the same though it does change eternally as well. Change is the eternal law, even though there still is nothing new under the sun (sorry don't remember the exact paraphrased verses). Hopefully, we are changing as well, to better understanding, though that isn't always clearly the case.
csx: You just called one of God's children an idiot. When does 'love thy neighbor' apply, and when does it not?
And God said, I do not exist.
psalms 6:66
Funny that verse doesn't exist. But I wonder how many people will even take the time to check!!
Stephen Prothero is a weirdo. not someone i'd wanna hang out with.
What are the odds that you could hang out with him?
Andy J, Stephen P is an atheist. True followers of Jesus Christ were warned about phonies such as the likes (or dislikes) of him.
"But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, . . . "
2 Peter 2:1
And how do we know when and who to apply your verse to? Seems the deceiver could be just as eager to use it as any one else. It's almost tailor made implying "but you can trust me.....really....trust me!"
I may have inadvertently caused all of this Christian fanaticism, so I thought the least I could do was clear the air a bit. In the interest of full disclosure, there is no conclusive evidence that I am actually the son of God. When I was younger, whenever my "dad" Joseph was out of town, my mom would put me to bed early, and shortly afterwards, there would be a knock on the door and I would hear a strange male voice coming from the living room. On occasion, I would sneak out and take a peek at what was going on, and there would be this guy sitting next to my mom on the couch who bore an uncanny resemblance to yours truly. After a few drinks, they would retire to the bedroom, where, over the course of the evening, my mother would repeatedly yell "Oh God, oh God, oh God yes!!!! So, naturally, I put 2+2 together and told everyone I was "God's" son. I never imagined that my story would have the impact it did, although in my defense, I never told you that is was permissible to start wars, commit genocide etc., in my name either.
Now that this has been cleared up, please stop all of the warped customs and traditions that you started b/c for some reason, you thought they would appease me. More importantly, stop committing evil in my name (i.e. slavery, wth?!!). Instead, and I don't even understand why I need to be telling you this, just let common sense serve as your moral compass and devote your time and resources to activities that actually benefit your fellow man in tangible, practical ways.
Amen.
Thank you for showing why man is so selfish and unethical. We laugh off the very things that form a foundation in society. It's like T.V today- Trash! Everyone wants it to be on edge, to push the limits! Why? Because we lack satisfaction in our life. We are constantly trying to fill the "void" in our lives. We find one thing to satisfy us, then quickly loose interest and move on to something else. Reality T.V. proves that every day. The Bible is very simply and beautiful: Our Creator loves us, is just and fair and gave us His Son to pay for our transgressions. I know, why would God punish us if He is all loving? What happens to spoiled kids who get everything they want? We all know the answer to that one. God is just, yet man is so selfish. You and so many others in this world simply do not understand the meaning of the Gospel- it is all about grace. To hear people make fun of someone who lived a pure life and sacrificed Himself for you and I, it just reeks of complete selfishness and hate. Why do you find joy in putting down Christ when He never did anything to you but love you? Dont believe? That's fine. Yet, why put Him down? See my reply to "Cat" below to see my explanation as to why science does indeed back up the reality that things can exist right in front of us, yet never be seen or detected!
Kind of a mixed bag. Actually the Big Jeez seems to be targeting the "reality show" like superficial JC superstar attributes of the moral story, that most seem to shallowly focus on and stop at. Actually such attributes were copied by many others before (Osiris, Horus, Alexander the Great, etc etc,), to get their star power established first in order to pass on their deeper meanings more easily. You know....get their attention first, then reel them in...fishers of me.
Any study of ancient hsitory and linking it in with all the Old Testament biblical journeys into Egypty, including JC's family pilgrimige, plus coming out of and being exiled back to Mesopotaia, with a little Persian, Greek, Roman, etc. influences along the way should make that clear. After that, the big Jeez seemed to only be attempting to get others to focus on the core meanings in the book, that often gets lost in the hocus pocus. Whether any of this was intended by the Big Jeez or not, that's was the result to anyone who knows.
If God sent Irene as some sort of message, I'd say He might have been a little more clear about it. "Well, NEXT time Imma gonna really WHUP you."
(What a hideous idea it's always been, God as a red-faced tyrant with a bad temper and a very mean streak. And idiotic.)
I feel the same way you do.....and actually upon further study of the bible, we learn that nothing in this existence that we are doing will have any interference from God....Until Armageddon. This right now is a test...god did not take your little girl, or your little boy, or your dad to heaven...NO actually the dead are conscious of nothing, and God loves us. If your wondering why all the suffering, then you need to actually study the bible. God will soon bring an end to all of our suffering, and he will ressurect all of those in the memorial tombs (our dead loved ones) to a judgment. Some people will be ressurected and stay with us for eternity...but others will be ressurected and Judged by God and be killed again.
Well stated "Stormchaser". Man kind has twisted and distorted the bible beyond reproach. Like the media today, we jump on any story that is fallacious. It doesn't matter what ones achievements have been if they have made one stupid remark. That remark becomes all that matters. The achievements and track record no longer hold water. We do this all the time with politicians. Man does this with the bible- we misuse it, people jump on OUR mistakes and so many therefore judge the bible for man's abuse. The bible is very clear on this happening and Satan deceiving us. before criticizing, please read the bible and study it. It make make ALL the difference in your life....and beyond!
Ah so your "all loving" God is going to come back (from a mysterious 2,000 year absence) and send all us dirty non-believers to hell, while you and your loved ones get to spend eternity in the ultimate paradise.
First, the arrogance, presumption and pure egotism of such a belief is beyond my ability to comprehend. You think your blind belief in something ridiculous will actually garner rewards for you in the life beyond this one. Right.
The entire concept of an afterlife serves two purposes: it cozens the weak-minded and stupid into believing no matter how bad things in this life are, they will always be better in the next. Of course, with this belief, believers subject themselves to all kinds of atrocities at the hands of their religion and then exclaim "oh but I have suffered in this world, surely I will rejoice in the next!" Don't hold your breath kids.
Secondly, it helps to assuage mankind's fear of death. That's all. It's a cop out, a coping mechanism for feeble minds who cannot accept that once they are gone, the world will continue to turn, just as it has for billions of years...without them.
What silly sheep you are. No wonder your preachers are "shepherds" and you are their "flock".
It's sad so many people still think and invisible man in the sky controls the universe just for them. We're an upstart species on tiny planet, in a boring solar system, in an average galaxy among millions of galaxies. The vastness of the universe is wondrous. We knew this over 200 years ago....come out of the cave and use your frontal lobe.
LoL, so you've just solved the age old mystery of religion with one dismissive comment. Wow, I bet you certainly feel proud now.
@ Cat MacLeod
I would probably marvel at some of the things you could do if you ever started to "THINK".
@Ken Why am I not surprised that you are from NC?
Hey "Cat". Wow, you sure know very little about science. First, never does it say that God is a little old invisible man that we cannot see. God manifests Himself in many ways. Lack of evidence does not prove a negative. One example would be in the area of String Theory. Einstein truly did seek a unified theory yet never attained it. String Theory does seem to pull things together in a very elegant way. Yet, String Theory is based of strings of vibrating energy that cannot be "seen". So, there is no way to prove it yet in the field of physics it is "the" hot subject. If we cannot prove it is it just philosophy? On paper it all makes sense, yet we will never be able to measure "strings" or see them. One important aspect of String Theory calls for 10 or 11 dimensions and parallel universes. If they are there as speculated, we cannot see them! They are looking into gravitrons disappearing after a particles collide in the new European particle accelerator. Where would they disappear into? Another dimension. OK, here is what I am getting at; science does believe there are parallel universes where, potentially, another being could be right in front of us, yet we never could "see" it. Therefore, it is completely possible for God to be in such a state, whereby He is right here, yet we never will see Him. You may scoff at this, but physics itself tells us this probably is true- parallel universes! So, while there is so much archeological evidence for subjects and places in the bible, we now know, there truly is the possibility of an existence of "beings" outside our means to see or detect. Add that all up and we simply cannot rule God out, so please stop judging people an their personal beliefs in a "god" when science is finding that indeed such an existence could exist!
Cat – I"ve got to agree with the others who replied – it's so much easier not to think for youself.
Just believe and do as you are told.
Each generation becomes less religious than the last. Maybe with my generations children, they will become even less religious. So on and so forth. Religion is the last hope of under educated people to hold on to some mystical belief of a better life after death. I'm sure by time we hit the 22nd century religion will be seen as a growth time in the evolution of the human condition, like the Dark Ages of Europe.
We do not need religion, yet some of us think they need religion to tell them they are good people. Why? I know I am a good person. I have no enemies, I have friends and family that love me, My wife and I are charitable, and we do not break the law. That is more than I can say of most devout religious people I know. In my experience the worst offenders are people that show off their faith. Maybe that has something to do with it, offenders can proclaim the are good even after they are caught breaking the law or breaking the laws of their religion like they have a get out of jail card. Its hypocritical, but what can you expect. They look to a book to tell them how to live. Someone should tell them, "You don't need a book to tell you how to be a good person".
@ CAt: are you implying that I came from a monkey!?!?!?!
Brian, you are correct that societies in Europe are turning more and more away from God and Europe is becoming more and more of a failed society. American's are becoming more "religious" today than say 40 years ago! So, are we as Americans becoming less religious or is the media becoming more skeptical of religion and therefore driving the image of a more elite group of people? Time and again, the educated "elite", have screwed up societies again and again. Lenin and Marx, Moa, Hitler, Chavez! Societies that have based themselves on Christian principles have been by far, more free, more scientifically advanced and more compassionate. Like every thing in life, there are exceptions, but by and FAR most succesful and peaceful socities come from Christian societies. today, as more people in European countries drift from Christianity, they are revealing more and more intrinsic problems in their societies that mainly come from the selfish nature of the individual over the whole. When the governments have to cut back on all the "freebies" they give their people, they riot. They are becoming more and more less self sufficient. When a culture puts more of it's faith in God (Christian God) they are much more honest hard working people who do not rely on their government to pave their way through life. That is exactly why we, as Americans, are in such a condition with budgets that we are. We have become very self centered as the individual becomes more important than the whole. Look at a video series called "Free to Choose" by Milton Friedman on "Utube" and you will see why so many christians believe in self sufficiency and how that really is the key to a functional society. The bible teaches these same principles too. The Bible is about Love, Life and Forgiveness. It truly has the answers to all of life's questions if you only would approach it with an open heart and see it for what it is, not what you percieve it to be.
E=MC^2, OK so there might be something greater than the universe.... And that proves the man made mythical god's existence how???
“you will see why so many christians believe in self sufficiency and how that really is the key to a functional society.”
Huh, I would have thought with all that Jesus teaches about helping others that he would be a democrat and insist on sharing the wealth. 😉
@Brian: I think man is predisposed to "make up" stories to fill the gaps where this no explanation for what's going on around them. As science unlocks more truths of the universe, so will religion change. Where are Zeus, Odin, and a host of other "dead" religions? Actually, they were crushed out by stronger armies with different beliefs. So maybe Islam will trump Christianity. Or Hindu, or not. But science will still be there. Unless we bomb ourselves back to the stone age (which some lunatics think would be the start of something great).
This is as good a place as any to remind all that there is absolutely no evidence of any god(s)...
This is as good a place as any to remind people there is no evidence of evolution.
Of course the evidence many theorize as pointing to evolution others theorize as pointing to God.
You cannot use the alphabet to solve a math problem. Sorry
There also is no evidence that there is not a God....just because we haven't discovered any evidence of something doesn't mean it does not exist. Bacteria were not discovered until the 1670s, does that mean they did not exist before then?
Real
"You cannot use the alphabet to solve a math problem. Sorry"
----------–
E=MC2
@joregon
E=MC2
Energy ="MASS"... WOW , science and religion DO mix!!!!!!
Some of these arguments are so incredibly dumb it boggles the mind someone in an advanced country could write them, with all the access we have to information and educational resources. ALL evidence points to the theory of evolution being the proper explanation of how life changes on this planet. Something like 50,000 peer reviewed scientific articles support evolution and exactly 0 go against it. It is arguably the best supported scientific theory of all time, much better understood than things like gravity. Yes, just because we don't have any evidence supporting something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Does this mean you're going to believe ALL things that don't have any evidence for it? Amongst the infinite amount of things to believe in, why believe in an invisible sky daddy? Why not unicorns or the flying spaghetti monster?
@Eric
"ALL evidence points to the theory of evolution being the proper explanation of how life changes on this planet."
----
No it does not,
For instance the very cornerstone of evolution relates to similarities in creatures pointing to a common ancestor.
Then we learned that creatures with no common ancestor also shared similar features.
For instance the camera eye is found in the human, octopus, and box jellyfish.
As proof they do not share a common ancestor it is known that in the octopus the eye develops from the epidermal layer then works it's way in to the nervous system.
In humans it is the other way around. This seems to point to an intelligent creator.
Of course science had to figure some way to explain this so they came up with the term Convergent Evolution.
Great way to cover their bases.
Evolution Theory 1: Animals have similar characteristics when they are related by a common ancestor.
Evolution Theory 2: Animals have similar characteristics when they are NOT related by a common ancestor.
@Eric
"Something like 50,000 peer reviewed scientific articles support evolution and exactly 0 go against it."
-----
Again NOT True.
Professor Maciej Giertych,
M.A.(Oxford), Ph.D.(Toronto), D.Sc.(Poznan),
Many hoped that molecular genetics would confirm evolution. It did not. It confirmed Linnaeus, not Darwin.
More from Giertych,
In polluted environments, the surviving trees have fewer alleles than in non-polluted ones. Change can also occur due to accidental loss of alleles (genetic drift) in small isolated populations. Both amount to decline in genetic information. Macroevolution requires its increase.
@Bill
Based on your logic, there is equal probability of pink unicorns, teapots orbiting the sun and god(s). Do you have equal belief in these items and if not, why not?
Macro evolution has no evidence of happening. There is no evidence of an ameoba turning into a fish, or a fish turning into reptile, etc. Those are called missing links. "Missing" They haven't found any. Nor has any type of macro evolution happened in recorded history, like where a alligator turned into mammal. Macro evolution has to exist for the theory of evolution to work. Also, how does evolution work with the law of thermodynamics? It doesn't. Please keep in mind that is the "law" of thermodynamics, not the "theory"..
@Wow. You don't make any sense. If an amoeba turned into a fish that would actually disprove Evolution. That is not what Evolution would predict. You clearly have not educated yourself enou to even get a very basic and simple concept down. I doubt you have any motivation to educate yourself either, you probably thrive with your ignorance. An animal doesn't give birth to another species, never has Evolution made this claim. That's like saying a young person cannot age because you've never seen a ten year old turn into a fifty year old.
JOregon,
Yes, Animals possessing strikingly similar features often times share a common ancestor. Also, evolutionary theory does state animals sharing a certain characteristic can possess a similarity without sharing an immediate common ancestor like a bird and bat wing. I’m curious to know why you have ruled out the possibility that Nature might select for optimum forms of eyesight in completely different animals. I think we can both admit the camera eye is a marvelous structure which definitely helps to enhance our and other creature’s ability to survive. In the history of life, it seems an adaptation like the camera eye confers a quite favorable adaptation and there’s no reason why it could not be selected for no matter the lineage of animal.
The best analogy I can come up with is this: it would be just like there being alternate steps different people could take in assembling a Ferrari. Yet, upon completion of the task, they would all have the exact same Ferrari. If their steps deviated drastically, they might have quite different looking and functioning Ferraris. I would similarly argue that humans, jellyfish, and octopi probably didn’t follow the same evolutionary path in assembling their Ferrari. Yet sure enough, they all came to possess one. If you feel I have not accurately addressed your argument, feel free to email me at alfredanswer@gmail.com, and I would be happy to further elaborate.
Alfred
@alfred
I appreciate your email address but I don't respond that way. Did that once many years ago and ended up with a ton of spam.
The odds of developing such a magnificent organ like the camera eye is unlikely. To develop it in several unrelated creatures is more than unlikely.
That would be like your car builders building that same Ferrari when one lives in Antarctica, one lives on the Moon, and one is in America.
Jellyfish exist without camera eyes, there is no evolutionary reason why the Box Jellyfish would develop such an organ.
Convergent evolution was created to explain the unexplainable.
The very cornerstone of evolution rests on similar creatures having similar characteristics. When creatures that were not related also had similar characteristics it destroyed the very cornerstone of evolution – explanations were in order.
Besides to quote Dr. Giertych again:
..
Similarities are often used as arguments for evolution. But lack of similarities is never accepted as an argument against it. The similarity of the shape of my hand and that of a frog is an argument for common ancestry. The difference between mine and that of a horse or a bat is not. And yet the latter are supposed to be closer relatives of mine.
Hey herbie!
How are you doing with your proof that your virgin Mary was not an adulterous whoore? I read recently that she "entertained" men every time Joseph turned his back...
A preschooler may have absolutely no evidence of Algebra, chemistry, psychology, biology etc.. A person who lives in the blistering hot dry desert may have absolutely no evidence of swamps, oceans or polar ice caps. The color blind may have absolutely no evidence of shades of green and red when placed closely together.
Perhaps respectfully trying to understand would be more productive than beating one's head against the wall or daming some one to hades. The mere acts of such self inflicted pain or attempted psychological injury could explain a lot of misunderstanding, so why continue?.
It's not necessary to believe everything we hear or are told, but it is possible to learn something productive or useful from it all.
LOL at all the insecure radical atheists here bashing religion because they themselves have questions and insecurities about God. You are wrong and undeducated and you look foolish.
"Undeducated".....really?
I'd have to agree with 2/8 on this.
CrownRoyal put the bottle down and Study some more, some of us are fairly intelligent, and well skooled.
PS
In case you weren't swift enough to catch it "skooled" was spelled that way to make fun of your remark. Everyone knows it is schouled.
I simply can't support or buy into the theories of atheists based on a comment I once herd from a friend of mine who happens to be an atheist. We witnessed a horrible car crash while driving one evening and her first words were, "OH MY GOD".
@ Ken
That's because many atheists had a religious upbringing. It's hard to shed...easier to use the lingo. But I guess you got your pompous point across.
Ken in NC: I really hope you were taking a stab at being humorous there. I think it's safe to say the majority of times people say "Oh my God" they mean it to depict surprise, dismay, and whole bunch of other feelings. It's not to be taken literally.
"You are wrong and undeducated and you look foolish". You must be joking, "crownroyal". In fact, religions past and present have done their best to keep people uneducated, the better to maintain their control.
The many branches of science represent hundreds of years of work by thousands of brilliant men and women who wanted to explain how the world works.
The best that someone like you can come up with in return is to quote a few verses in the collection of myths and morality tales called "the Bible". And then you claim that your few verses are right, and everyone else is wrong.
It wasn't all that long ago that disease and epidemics were seen as God's wrath. Then along came vaccinations, modern plumbing, and plenty of disinfectant. And hey, magic – no more epidemics. Or in other words "crownroyal", how many people do you know who died of smallpox, bubonic plague, polio, diphtheria, and a host of other once-common diseases?
We witnessed a horrible car crash while driving one evening and her first words were, "OH MY GOD'
Well Ken, when I am surprised I will often exclaim 'bugger me' but it doesnt mean I actually want to be buggered, its an expression, not a claim of belief.
I disagree. I'll pray to Zues tonight for you, by Jove!
The problem with religion, isn't God. Its his self-involved, pompous and holier than thou followers.
The same people that would condemn gays for marrying or women for getting an abortion, wouldn't suspect for an instant that money worship and gossiping about others is equally offensive to God.
Precisely why I practice my faith privately, and attend smaller, community oriented churches. You can keep that mega-church garbage; its entirely against everything that Jesus EVER wanted for his followers.
Well said, but at least the people going to the mega churches are trying unlike many Americans.
Being "trying" can be interpretted in a bad way, as well, In this day and age it really isn't necessary to join a flock to try, either. In fact peer pressure can often lead to more incorrect actions than solitary skeptical but well intentioned consideration.
no matter how you "couch it" , abortion is murder.
And I suppose war that kills innocent non-Christains or even your own is okay; so long as the proper parades and prayers are made and every starry eyed misinformed cheerleader distant from any up close costs, is called a patriot?
Why do we care so much about life evolving in the womb, but don't seem to give two cents about it afterwards.
Suppose your unborn child was determined in the first trimester to be grossly malformed, unlikely to live, possibly to kill you during pregnancy; and if if it did live without killing you, to have a life of severe pain and suffering with the hope of nothing resembling, or even close to, normal life. So you think someone else should force you to carry the child to term and we'll just see what happens then? Would they help out with your situation or just ignore you and the whole unpleasant affair afterwards, as most are prone to do. We even have enough compassion to put terminally ill and suffering pets to sleep. Just some things to think about. Not everything is so cut and dried or "couched". There except for the grace of God go us all....can we have the same grace and let people make their own personal decisions?
But if Christians believe the quoted psalm is not accurate, then that calls the rest of the Bible into question and BOOM, down it comes. Convenient to say "this is not accurate, but that is" but not very logical.
I personally believe in God, Jesus Christ, and the Bible. You have to remember that the Bible was made 300 years after Jesus' death, and the original language was a form of greek. Over thousands of years the Bible's interpretation has changed because in my belief evertime a translation is made, or a person edits the Bible the meaning changes. The key thing though is the message, love God, love Jesus Christ and try your best. The Bible was written by humans but the message was from God.
THINKKK said:
"The key thing though is the message, love God, love Jesus Christ and try your best."
I'd say that to "try your best" is the best advice you've given. Most of the world is non-Christian, and they think you are very misguided. Many around the world think you are going to hell because of your worship of a false god.
You may want to consider studying the world's other relighions, so that you can "hedge your bets" with regards to the afterlife.
That's the best advice anyone can give you.
You know it is not actually the word of Jesus/God because people wrote it yet it is the word of God? I am sure that after you wrote that and clicked "post" you said to your self, "Wow, that doesn't make sense but I stand by it!" You know the Bible (Literal translation form Greek: Book) is not the actual writings of Jesus yet you believe in Jesus. What if it was all made up by community leaders to give the people something to hold on to to keep moral up and to keep those men in power? I will till you what religion is to me; Its not the word of GOD. It is a form of control, a form of suppression and a way to create hierarchical leaderships to control a population. It doesn't matter what you call the religion they are all the same, almost identical. They even share the same characters! Did you know that Jesus is a character in Islam too? Nearly all of the holidays we celebrate are from pre-christian times. It is amazing really.
@ Mobius007: "HEDGE YOUR BETS?!" are you kidding me? Did you say that to your wife when she found out you are cheating on her? "Uh.. honey.. I am just hedging my bets... don't get mad"
@GG100: Everything is in question, but that doesn't mean nothing is true. It's such a lame tired half thought retort, that folks just shouldn't go there. It's like throwing out a brilliant scientific paper because the typist made a typo somewhere in the depths of it. Wow, you can grasp a simple error, but you missed the more developed big picture rational thought involved. So what's the point of making such a lame point?
If whatever you consider your deity is a someone that whomps on people deliberately, I sure don't want to worship this turkey.
If your deity is into being decent to others, then maybe he's really a Buddhist, a religion that believes in decency instead of fear.
By the way, I'm not Buddhist either...more of an agnostic.
Buddhism fears desire, something required to live. That seems to be an unresolvable conflict that could lead to internal fear. I do agree, the middle path makes so much more sense that the extremist radicalism other religions, or at least their misled sects, try to stress. The pendulum always pulls back to the middle, swinging the extremist back out to the other damaging extremist side. Neither extreme is very real, so humans can't attempt to maintain them without causing great conflict eventually.
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
Matthew 7:6
Amen.
The doctrine of original sin, pretty much indicates we are all swine and dogs until we know these pearls. Does that mean such powerful knowledge should only be given to those who already know it? How can they trample them or turn again and rend you, if they are true and you fully understand them?.
Not this idiot again. Look God is in charge and he "allows" things to happen.
Yes he punishes, that is why he is the Father. But you do not know about that do you?
@CSX you said "But you do not know about that do you?"
Nor do you!! You have no clue as to what you are saying and until you provide evidence that your god is real, you sound like the idiot, not the guy writing the article!