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Malaysia's openly gay pastor
August 31st, 2011
09:26 AM ET

Malaysia's first openly gay pastor to marry

By Elizabeth Yuan, CNN

(CNN)– Malaysia's first openly gay pastor has chosen Wednesday, coinciding with the country's Independence Day, to get married to his American partner in New York, barely a month after same-sex marriage became legalized there.

"It means a lot to be married that day, to honor my country and people in Malaysia," said Rev. Boon Lin Ngeo, who also goes by his pen name O.Young or Ouyang Wen Feng, in a telephone call from Kota Kinabalu, the capital of Malaysia's Sabah state, during a visit there last week.

He said the date was chosen to remind others that "we need to keep fighting for our rights and be independent from all kinds of oppression."

Read the full story about Malaysia's first openly gay pastor getting married
- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Malaysia • Pastors

soundoff (312 Responses)
  1. ns296

    Who do they even have to associate his nationality.. It's his own choice,

    September 1, 2011 at 5:05 pm |
  2. Muneef

    Shouldn't that be a cause of concern for us to fight against starting at some point ? If you agree then got to participate starting from here;

    Australia plans to impose carbon tax on worst polluters;

    Right now, a major climate fight is blowing up in Australia - the government is about to pass a law that would cut carbon emissions and get polluters to pay.
    We are all under threat from climate change - including the droughts and storms that cause forest fires, floods and failed harvests. Australia’s proposal would start to shift its economy to halt it. The measure would make polluting companies pay, encouraging them to become more efficient while funding technologies of the future and increasing support to the most needy.
    Let’s send Australians our support today: 
    http://www.avaaz.org/en/australian_carbon_price/?vl 
    ----

    September 1, 2011 at 4:31 pm |
    • Muneef

      "Pollution & Corruption" is behind all Human Sufferings;
       
      Space junk at tipping point, says report

      Space debris: Time to clean up the sky
      Orbital 'housekeeper' proposed
      Near miss for space station
      Scientists in the US have warned Nasa that the amount of so-called space junk orbiting Earth is at tipping point.

      A report by the National Research Council says the debris could cause fatal leaks in spaceships or destroy valuable satellites.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14757926

      ---–
      Ocean Pollution;

      Pollution in the ocean is a major problem that is affecting the ocean and the rest of the Earth, too. Pollution in the ocean directly affects ocean organisms and indirectly affects human health and resources. Oil spills, toxic wastes, and dumping of other harmful materials are all major sources of pollution in the ocean. People should learn more about these because if people know more about pollution in the ocean, then they will know more about how to stop pollution.
      http://library.thinkquest.org/CR0215471/ocean_pollution.htm

      --–
      Groundwater Pollution;

      Human groundwater contamination can be related to waste disposal (private sewage disposal systems, land disposal of solid waste, municipal wastewater, wastewater impoundments, land spreading of sludge, brine disposal from the petroleum industry, mine wastes, deep-well disposal of liquid wastes, animal feedlot wastes, radioactive wastes) or not directly related to waste disposal (accidents, certain agricultural activities, mining, highway deicing, acid rain, improper well construction and maintenance, road salt).
      http://www.lenntech.com/groundwater/pollution-sources.htm

      --–
      Air Pollution;

      Historically, the main air pollution problem in both developed and rapidly industrialising countries has typically been high levels of smoke and sulphur dioxide emitted following the combustion of sulphur-containing fossil fuels such as coal, used for domestic and industrial puposes. These days, the major threat to clean air is now posed by traffic emissions. 
      http://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/air-pollution/causes
      ---–

      A Greater Pollution is "The Human Moral Pollution";

          Just as the filth around us pollutes our environment, the evil found within and around us also stains our environment. Eyes may not see it, yet it cannot be concealed from the mind’s vision: 

      … Things that come out of the mouth come from the heart and these make a man ‘unclean’. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, $exual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man ‘unclean’. (Matt, 15:17-19)

          If environmental pollution is detrimental for man’s physical being, moral pollution is detrimental for his spiritual being. A body which is morally polluted is perhaps dirtier than a place which is environmentally polluted. It is only a question of recognizing this reality. Man tends to forget it and the Gracious GOD "Allah" constantly reminds him of it.  
          Purification of the soul, consequently, has remained the objective of divine religions, for it is their verdict that only purified souls will enter the everlasting abode of Paradise. So, we must all vie to root out moral pollution if we are to enter this blissful life. 

      http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=human+moral+pollution&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

      September 2, 2011 at 1:22 pm |
    • Muneef

      Human Dignity;

      human dignity.4 Even if this abstract term 'dignity' can not be defined with ...... environment, as well as to combat pollution, corruption and other man- made ..... governance on issues that concern a person's individual, social and physical ...
      http://www.epu.ac.at/epu/research/Chawda.pdf

      September 2, 2011 at 2:30 pm |
  3. Muneef

    Bo=====
    at least now we know what they been feeding the cattle's...! If that was the true case and cause for the up normality of few within the communities...! Guess then they had no free will or choice in hand to avoid that...?!?

    Study: Mercury pollution causes birds to act gay;

    CAPTION By University of Florida
    Mercury pollution causes a surprising tendency of male white ibis birds to mate with other males, finds a new University of Florida study.

    "We knew that mercury can disrupt hormones – what is most disturbing about this study is the low levels of mercury at which we saw effects on hormones and mating behavior," said Peter Frederick, a UF wildlife ecology professor who led the five-year study, in a university press release. "This suggests that wildlife may be commonly affected."
    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/greenhouse/post/2010/12/mercury-pollution-causes-gay-birds/1

    September 1, 2011 at 4:28 pm |
  4. Sean

    There must be a lot of unemployed atheist bigots, because i'm pretty sure you all have no lives. Fyi, I'm on lunch, and yes i'm employed.

    September 1, 2011 at 3:18 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      So you're what? An employed, theist bigot trolling while eating lunch?

      Does it further your argument to denigrate and insult those you disagree with?

      September 1, 2011 at 4:50 pm |
    • Awkward Situations

      Hey genius, the Earth is round remember. TIMEZONES. Don't be so self-centered.

      Oh and the whole "you don't have lives because you're on the internet" bit died out ages ago. What's next? "Neeeerds!!"?

      I'm a chick. Must mean I'm f*-cking ugly and fat as well, right? haha. Grandpa.

      September 1, 2011 at 6:03 pm |
  5. Brian

    "You're going to Hell!"

    "Satan has blinded you!"

    "If you support abortion, you are supporting murder!"

    Have you been assaulted with statements such of these? Have your political views, your religious beliefs or your behaviors been targeted by such verbal abuse? Have you found yourself defending your choices against individuals so bent on their own agenda that nothing you say makes a difference? Chances are you are being attacked by Fundamentalist Christians.

    Often called the "Religious Right," these people come from an extreme wing of the Christian Faith. Because of their growing number, many of them – as well as many non-Christians – believe they represent all of Christianity. Not true. These people represent a far-right position in a much larger spectrum of Christian believers. They are Fundamentalists. And by that definition, which they use, they have set themselves up as defenders of the "fundamentals" of the faith, as the guardians of righteousness, as soldiers of the truth.

    Worried? You should be.

    Fundamentalists are nothing new however. They can be abrasive, angry, judgmental and downright mean, but they are not true representatives of any of the faiths for which they claim to speak. I say that because every major religion has had its share. Fundamentalist Muslims have made many non-Muslims fear that religion, and yet the Muslim faith, at its core, remains a peace-loving faith. Fundamentalist Jews have made many non-Jews fear that religion, and yet the Jewish faith, at its core, remains a peace-loving faith. And Fundamentalist Christians have made many non-Christians fear that religion, and yet the Christian faith, at its core, remains a peace-loving faith. It's only when Fundamentalists are allowed to gain political power that their existence is a threat to mankind.

    The real issue with these people is not their specific faiths. It's their addiction to thinking they are right. It's an addiction to believing they have a corner on the market of truth. In other words, it's an addiction to a "made-truth," that is, to a belief that the truths they've created in their minds are indeed absolute truths and that everyone else must be made to believe in the same truths lest they perish.

    They are addicts. And like other addicts, they do not respond to logic or sound arguments. Like other addicts, in order to feel good, they must believe that their made-truth is the only reality, and they must, therefore, defend that truth against any outside influence. Like other addicts, anyone who threatens to keep them from believing their made-truths is seen as a threat to their own good feelings – or in other words, to be opposed to their brand of made-truth is to be a threat to their personal value as humans, and thus they will attack with ferocity anyone who even questions their veracity. If you don't believe as they do, you are considered "lost." If you oppose their political positions, you are considered "blinded by the Devil." And if you have the gall to argue against their made-truths, you will be called nothing short of "demon possessed" or a "tool of Satan."

    But, as with any other addict, you should not take their attacks personally. These people are not to be feared; they are to be rebuffed. They are not to be taken seriously; they are to be pitied. They are not to be counter-attacked with anger; they are to be helped out of their addiction by replacing their need for made-truth with the healing touch of human love and kindness.

    Yes. It's true. Fundamentalists can escape their addiction to made-truth the same way an alcoholic can escape the appeal of a stiff drink. Just as there is Alcoholics Anonymous, there is also Fundamentalists Anonymous. But two things must happen in order to break a Fundamentalist's addiction.

    The first, and most important, is they must have an alternate source of personal value. These people feel valuable as humans because they have found the "truth." Even if you successfully break down that made-truth with the suggestions that follow, Fundamentalists will cling to the "rightness" of their beliefs at all costs unless you offer them an alternative way to feel good about themselves. Be their friends, even if they don't want you to be. Treat them with respect, even if they condemn you. Show them through your actions that you value them as human beings, even if they don't return the favor.

    Rational arguments with history or science won't work. Your only weapon is to use their made-truths against them. They won't like it very much, and you can be assured that even as you crack their defenses, they will seldom admit you've made them question their faith. Admission of being wrong is tantamount to condemning oneself to hell. It won't happen. What will happen, however, is your counter attacks will plague their private thoughts until one of two things happens: either they will kill their own rational thoughts altogether, or they will begin to question the validity of their made-truths.

    It won't be easy for them. They will be afraid. They will be lonely (particularly as their Fundamentalist family and friends reject them). And they will desperately need an alternative source of personal value. This is where your relationship becomes important. Though they rebuked you in the beginning, they will need you now. If you were the only one who gave them value as a person outside of their made-truth, they will suddenly want, even need, your friendship while they learn to create a value for themselves. Remember, in order to escape Fundamentalism, these people must replace the framework in which they once consider themselves valuable.

    September 1, 2011 at 11:22 am |
    • EnergyBeing3

      Excellent post. Agreed with most of it. I just tell most of them to read through a few Atheist web sites then get right back to me.

      September 1, 2011 at 11:33 am |
    • A Theist

      Would it further ease your mind to know that all the quotes you listed are not compatible with the teachings of Jesus and Paul, and therefore the Fundamentalists as you have described them are likely sinning by shouting what they shout? It relaxes me, because I would hate to feel compelled to be like that. Too much anger, bad for one's consti tution

      September 1, 2011 at 12:31 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Finally! A brother who understands what this battle between Democrats and Republicans is about!

      Better be careful with these religious nuts. They are fun to poke fun at, for sure. But they have a terrifying "wishlist".

      Christian Right Agenda – Christian Theocracy

      The Texas history books are rewriting history to give the conservative slant. The objective of this effort, is to create a Christian Nation, a theocracy with Jesus as Head of State.

      A huge campaign is underway, to convince the American people, the founding fathers never intended a separation of church and state. Thomas Jefferson's role as a founding father is played down. In some cases Jefferson is smudged.

      Expect an attack on the 1st and 14th Amendments. The founding fathers will weep.

      Most of the Tea Party are for a Christian Theocracy. The Tea Party is in bed with the Christian Right. A vote for any Tea Party candidate, is a vote for Christian Right domination.

      The Republicans are the puppets of the Christian Right and the Rich.

      You will see an amendment defining marriage as between a man and woman. The repeal of "Don't Ask Don't Tell", will be in grave jeopardy. Gay rights will dwindle and die.

      Roe Vs. Wade will be reversed. Women will once again be forced to seek back alley remedies. Men will be forced to buy condoms on the black market. You will procreate! It is not up to you!

      Stem cell research will stagnate. The hopes of damaged and sick people will be dashed.

      All scientific research will be scrutinized by the Christian Right. "If a theory is in agreement with Scripture ", will be the new metric. Get use to hearing "God Did It". No one will dare question otherwise.

      P_ornography will be illegal. The Religious Right will decide what is p_ornographic , as well as what is art. You will watch television programs approved by the Evangelicals. Lots of reruns of "Growing Pains", starring that Evangelical darling Kirk Cameron. Thank you Jesus!

      Creationism will be taught in public school, most likely alongside evolution rather than instead of, but no guarantees.

      Vouchers will enable parents to send their child to religious schools. Funds to public schools will dwindle. Quality education will be out of reach for the masses. The finite amount of money, will be spread too thin.

      Little Johnny will believe in talking snakes and Zombie Messiahs. The rest of the world is spending their time learning real science and math. Good luck Johnny. Can you say: "Would you like fries with that?"

      State-sanctioned Prayer will be in our schools. The Christian Right think they know better than the Founding Fathers and want to tamper with the Bill of Rights. They want to amend the U.S. Const_itution, so that the Government would legally sponsor and take over the activity of prayer. Only the one true god, the Christian god, will be given homage. The non-Christians will be allowed to put their heads down on their desks, during the morning worship. They can contemplate their damnation, for not accepting Jesus.

      $ex education will consist of abstinence only. Studies have shown it is a worthless concept. But, it will please Jesus.

      The war against unions, commenced during the Bush administration, will continue. Labor will be humbled.

      Say goodbye to enti_tlements. Social Security and Medicare are Ponzi schemes! Our elderly will go to Jesus earlier than they thought. The government will turn over its programs for the poor, to the Christian Right. They will decide who will receive help and who will not. No longer will the criteria for receiving help be income.

      Jesus will be the Head of State! He will be represented by an empty chair at the head of the leadership table. Only the Evangelicals will be able to hear His voice. They will tell the rest of us His will. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

      We will be slaves to a make believe god. If it wasn't so sad, it would be funny.

      Cheers!

      September 1, 2011 at 12:39 pm |
    • Awkward Situations

      That would probably be a good way to go when dealing with fundies in real life... but the internet? Forget it. lol.

      Here's the thing... a lot of atheists know what it's like to have religion and faith and then subsequently question it and eventually reject it. I would venture to guess that many are ex-believers or were brought up in a household where the belief in god is the norm. It's not easy to come to the realization that your views on god, life, death, purpose, everything... CORE beliefs has been a farce. Most of us know how it feels to be in the other shoes and can sympathize (believe it or not).

      There is no amount of convincing that will lead somebody to change their beliefs. The only thing to be done is to poke holes with logic and hope that the seeds of honest self-reflection start germinating. It's a hell of a lot easier to do when you have science, logic, and evidence on your side!

      Read Plato's 'Allegory of the Cave', I think it does an excellent job at philosophically demonstrating what it's like to let go of religion and truly see the what the real world is like. (wikipedia it).

      Cheers.

      September 1, 2011 at 4:15 pm |
    • Awkward Situations

      Allegory of the Cave... Animated! I hope this link shows up:

      http://youtu.be/E4XXItJYFKA

      September 1, 2011 at 4:32 pm |
    • A Theist

      @Awkward I find the Allegory of the Cave especially interesting, since you could really argue it on behalf or Atheism or Theism.

      September 1, 2011 at 4:34 pm |
    • Keith

      David Johnson, Every tongue will confess and every knee(including yours) that Jesus is Lord. He will reign forever. Your smart mouth will be stopped and you will give account for every idle word. Good luck with that. You continue to heap up for yourself-wrath. You really don't know what your doing, do you? Because if you do...you must be mentally ill.

      September 1, 2011 at 5:28 pm |
    • Keith

      that's "knee will bow"

      September 1, 2011 at 5:29 pm |
    • Awkward Situations

      @A Theist: I realize that and that's what makes it an absolutely beautiful allegory. An incredible way to communicate complex ideas or feelings.. sort of like poetry. Plato used this allegory to illustrate some of the abstract concepts in his 'Theory of Forms'.

      Anyway, I'm glad that somebody recognized it and likes it because it's a favorite of mine.

      [P.S. The Matrix movies had a lot of philosophical themes weaved throughout and this allegory was one of the big ones in there.]

      September 1, 2011 at 5:49 pm |
    • *frank*

      Fuck off with that drivel.

      September 1, 2011 at 5:50 pm |
    • *frank*

      (@Keith)

      September 1, 2011 at 5:51 pm |
    • A Theist

      @Awkward Yes sir they did! And for those that hate the other two Matrix films, if you watch them with the lens of the philosophical underpinnings they intended to be inspired by, you will see they do an adequate job of following through the first film.

      I appreciate your reference to a deeply intriguing philosophical allegory and one that truly defines the nature of being an "individual" 😀

      September 1, 2011 at 6:05 pm |
    • Keith

      *frank*, It is appointed for man once to die and after this the judgement. Does that concern you?

      September 1, 2011 at 7:05 pm |
    • Awkward Situations

      @A Theist: The Wachowski brothers are amazing writers and storytellers. They also wrote V for Vendetta. Great all around.

      Hey remember that the choice is yours between the blue pill and red pill. 🙂

      September 1, 2011 at 8:26 pm |
    • Rick

      Keith....your empty proxy threats are amusing.

      September 1, 2011 at 9:40 pm |
    • A Theist

      @Awkward Yeah they do an amazing job! I didn't realize they were also behind V!! (one of my all time favorite movies). It always felt awesome watching that movie, because my birthday falls a week after the 5th of November :D.

      And I always dive for the rabbit hole! 😉

      September 2, 2011 at 7:24 pm |
  6. BRC

    When this article popped up, I knew there would be soem rather interesting comments ( it was pretty much designed for a crystalzeldalina rant); and I must say it has not dissapointed. Truly inspiring stuff. To all of the moderate believers out there, have no fear, I do not associate your beliefs with any of the fringe crazies. That being said, that fringe is one kooky place. I truly hope that some of the things said on this post came from a statistically insigficant minority or from master level trolls.

    In either case; for those of you who actually believe the kinds of things posted here, thunder is the sound of God face palming because of the things said and done in "His name".

    September 1, 2011 at 9:08 am |
  7. Rainer Braendlein

    Gay Pastors

    Everybody reading this following article should be aware that Jesus Christ was baptised by John the Baptist. What does that mean? Answer: Of course Jesus was no sinner, who had needed John’s baptism, but he was holy. Nevertheless he wanted to get baptised by John. By getting baptised, Jesus expressed: I want to join the community of the sinners, and I am not ashamed of the sinners. Jesus accepted to be labeled as sinner. The very meaning of John’s baptism was it to give people the following label: “this man is a sinner needing forgiveness!” Why gots Jesus himself baptized, when he was no sinner??? Jesus didn’t want to be a proud Pharisee with an egoistic Holyness (I am the only holy man on earth), but wanted to equate with the sinners that means he was ready to get the status: “sinner”. Jesus was the very opposite of a Pharisee because he considered himself as sinner and not as a righteous one. Jesus got himself baptized, that shows, how much he loves us. By getting baptized, Jesus joins us.

    The EKD (German Evangelical Church) is so down and out that she allows ho-mos(e)xuals to be official pastors of the EKD

    Even some little years ago in Germany practiced ho-mos(e)xuality was punishable: paragraph 175. Nearly for 2000 years there were no ho-mos(e)xual pastors in the Holy Christian Church, and suddenly now it shall be lawful??? This is impossible.

    Even when state and society become more and more tolerant concerning ho-mos(e)xuality, in the eyes of God it is a heavy crime.

    For the Christian Church it never can be crucial, which opinion state or society have got about a certain subject, but solely the opinion of the Hl. Scripture.

    First must be stated that this article is not about ordinary human beings having a v-ice, but about pastors. What is the task of the pastor? The task of the pastor is it to take care of the salvation of the church members soul. The pastor should preach: “Jesus Christ wants and is able to free you from slavery of every sin” (Matthew 1, 21), hear the gospel: “For God so loved the world, that he gave is only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life” (John 3, 16).

    Please note, God doesn’t want solely to forgive, but to save from sins and give everlasting life. Romans 6, 1-3: Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live anylonger therein?

    As a result of which, we are dead to sin? We are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ!

    The true gospel is a gospel of freeing and releasing from sins.

    As-sumed, it would actually happen that a g-ay pastor would pronounce: “Jesus can set you free!”, then at the same time his body would preach: “The gospel is the biggest nonsense of all ages, it has no releasing power!” or “Grace is for free, consequently continue in sin”.

    Because it is out of question (impossible) that someone says yes (gospel sets free) and no (gospel doesn’t set free) at the same time, a ho-mos(e)xual is never allowed to become pastor, because by his way of life he perverts the gospel. He preaches, so to speak: “God forgives you, even when you continue in sin”, but he should preach with words and body: “Jesus sets you free!”

    It is written repeatedly in the Epi-stles of St. Paul that an examplary life is absolute basic condition for reaching out for an ecclesiastical office (1.Tim. 3, 1-13). Sinners in the Church are suggested to repent, but they are not called to ecclesiastical offices (Romans 6, 19-23).

    Proof that God particularly hates s(e)xual sins:

    Very long ago in Palestine lived peoples which experienced such a downfall that even their names have been forgotten and today nobody knows that they have ever existed.

    It were seven peoples: the Hetti-tes, the Girgash-ites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites (Deuteronomy 7). This peoples lived excessively in most heavy s(e)xual sins: s(e)xual intercourse between father and daughter, mother and son, man or woman with animal, men with men, woman with woman etc.. One day God had enough of it, and he mandated his people Israel to exterminate this peoples. Deuteronomy 20, 16-20: But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: but thou shalt utterly destroy them …

    Leviticus 18, 1-30: God warned his people Israel of living in the sins of the peoples, which he was about to drive out. The peoples had made unclean (defiled) the land, and the land sp-it them out. Isreal would have the same fate like the peoples, when they would live in the sins of the peoples (Leviticus 20, 22-23).

    By the way, the Church is the heavenly Isreal. When God required his earthly people (Israel) not to make unclean themselves, how much more he will require his heavenly people (the Christian Church) not to make unclean themselves.

    Some verses of the Hl. Scripture, where intercourse between man and man is condemned: Leviticus 18, 22 und Leviticus 20, 13: Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

    Romans 1, 26-27: … men with men working that which is unseemly … .

    The statements of the Hl. Scripture are absolutely clear. The Holy Scripture doesn’t solely condemn same-s(e)x love of pastors, but of everybody.

    About everybody trying to bend the Hl. Scripture to make it possible for example to justify the blessing of same-s(e)x couples, Dr. Martin Luther had said: “He is possessed by many devils!”

    At last: Everybody practising same-s(e)x love, should stop it right now, because it is an offence against God. When he cannot get rid of his longing, despite of his efforts, then he should ask Jesus Christ for help. It is the very office of Jesus Christ to deliver (set free) sinners from their sins. Jesus will set him free.

    By the way, everybody having received sacramental infant baptism, can refer back to his infant baptism and believe that by this infant baptism he has got deliverance and New Life in Christ. Re-baptism is strictly prohibited because it seperates from the one Holy Christian Church. Infant baptism is valid!

    When someone (who repents his sins) has the possibility, he should confess his sins to a Christian brother, and the brother should forgive and release in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ gave authority to the Church to forgive sins in his name: “Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them, and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained” (John 20, 23).

    Jesus loves us!!!

    September 1, 2011 at 7:30 am |
    • LOL

      "Romans 1, 26-27: … men with men working that which is unseemly "

      Ok, now tell us what was happening in Roman culture when this was written? Do you even know? Did you bother to pickup a history book to understand the correct context of it? I would say you were to lazy to do that based on your post. That is what reading comprehension is about you have to put it into historical context to get the true meaning of what was written.

      September 1, 2011 at 8:31 am |
    • Martin T

      Even IF I agreed with ANYTHING you wrote, I would not have slogged through that much information. Comments are normally meant to be short and sweet and to the point, not your own personal Opine.

      September 1, 2011 at 10:16 am |
    • Awkward Situations

      T L ; D R ! ! !!!! again!

      Try to make your mini manifestos a bit shorter. Unless you're just a copy/paste parrot (which I suspect you are, however I'm not sure because well.. too long; didn't read!) without an opinion of your own.

      Come on.. do a little bit of freestyle and dazzle the boards with your supreme wisdom. hehe.

      September 1, 2011 at 11:15 am |
    • Darla

      No. Jesus never considered himself a sinner or accepted to be labeled a sinner. He knew who he was (the son of God) and where he came from. He was born as a perfect human. The Bible does not support that.

      September 1, 2011 at 3:46 pm |
  8. Achbar Achmad

    Don't worry Guys, it's only in Malaysian.

    September 1, 2011 at 2:30 am |
  9. Bo

    =========@LOL6:54=================== .Hi! And, oops, did you say "...God created them...[gays]" I thought you didn't believe in God? But, I don't believe God created men as gays, gays are are a product of many years of sin, and man has done a lot to 'screw' up things, in fact, I believe that sin is responsible for all that is wrong in this world, and it is getting worse.

    September 1, 2011 at 12:14 am |
    • Rick

      Sin, sin, sin, sin.....blah blah blah. Just because you believe it don't necessarily make it so, Bo

      September 1, 2011 at 5:31 am |
    • LOL

      "God created them...[gays]" I thought you didn't believe in God? But, I don't believe God created"

      Science has proven people are born gay so who do you think created the millions and millions of gays in the world?

      September 1, 2011 at 8:35 am |
    • A Theist

      @ Lol Science has been rather inconclusive on the topic, actually. And even if there was clear evidence one way or the other (as in a repeatable experiment) it is FAR from being proven as a fact.

      September 1, 2011 at 12:40 pm |
    • LOL

      "it is FAR from being proven as a fact."

      Ummmm that's why all the major organization have gone on record based on that science stating being gay is not a choice. I would love to see you say that to the hundred of thousands of experts. Or were you to lazy to do your homework before commenting.

      September 1, 2011 at 12:43 pm |
    • A Theist

      @ Lol, sorry I was away from my computer and I've been having some trouble posting this comment through SoundOff's filter.

      Currently there is a renewed interest in searching for biological etiologies for hom.ose.xuality. However, to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for hom.ose.xuality. Similarly, no specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for hom.ose.xuality has been identified, including histories of childhood se.xual abuse. Se.xual abuse does not appear to be more prevalent in children who grow up to identify as gay, lesbian, or bise.xual, than in children who identify as heterose.xual. –American Psychiatric Association, 2002 (That sounds pretty inconclusive to me)

      September 1, 2011 at 1:23 pm |
    • A Theist

      @Lol cont...

      "[A]s much as people like to divide themselves into nature or nurture camps, what genes actually do in the brain reflects the interaction between her.editary and environmental information." - Gene E. Robinson, PhD, Director of the Neuroscience Program at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, wrote the statement in The New York Times op-ed article ti.tled "The Behavior of Genes," published on Dec. 13, 2004: (It's much more convoluted than a "born that way" vs. "raised poorly" argument)

      September 1, 2011 at 1:25 pm |
    • A Theist

      @Lol, sorry I had to do this in chunks...

      Even the APA, which many use as their authority to stake the claim, said in 2009 "that there are probably many reasons for a person's se.xual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people." The debate is clearly nuanced, and while the APA tends to support a biology based argument, even they admit that the case is not set in stone.

      It has been well established that there is no "gay gene" but aside from this meager point, we can rule out the argument of genetics being the sole factor altogether since identical twins do not exhibit identical behavior. The brain-based argument suffer from the "chicken or the egg" debate, and hormones have been largely contradictory. You've said many times there are hundres of sources that confirm more conclusively that there is a "birth based" inheritance, but I have yet to see serious citations.

      September 1, 2011 at 1:26 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @A Theist,
      I think more recent studies point to genetics and the developmental environment, e.g. in utero hormone levels, rather than social or psychological environment, but you are correct that there is no definitive conclusion yet, from science anyway.

      What I would like to hear though, from @Bo, or anyone else, is how exactly (or generally for that matter) sin affects the physical world. How does/did sin cause death to exist, or pain, or disease, or suffering, if such things originate from sin?

      September 1, 2011 at 1:40 pm |
    • A Theist

      @Nonimus It is true that there are more experiments done in order to demonstrate utero hormonal levels and genetics play a factor, but at this point for every experiment that has been done, there seems to be another to debunk it–unless the experiment isn't even repeatable.

      Concerning your question, this is how I personally believe sin affects the world: Mankind was given an opportunity to commune with God, but once they had sinned (i.e. made a decision apart from God's will and good intentions for the world) death–spiritual death that is–became the intevitable reality. I personally reject the notion that nothing died literally before the "fall of man"–unless it is accepted that humans and all of earth was really some different sort of enti.ty altogether. My reasoning behind this is because cells die and are "born" every second. I also personally believe the shark was built to be a predator and hunt animals and for that I see God's glory in its awesome creation.

      So, I really see it in two ways: Either mankind was some sort of otherly being altogether that did not age or change, and thus by committing sin underwent a physical transformation that made them mortal (but this interpretation does not make sense 1) because Eve knew what death meant before it "existed" and 2) because God says that "the day that you eat it" you will surely die–depending on what translation you read from. Since they did not die upon eating from the tree, and since I subscribe to the belief that God is not a liar, it appears likely that this interpretation is not the correct one).

      Otherwise, sin meant a "spiritual death," meaning we are now born separated from God. What life on earth meant before this "death" is hard to say because I believe physical death–at least elsewhere–was real even before the fall. Can't say much about natural disasters or things like that either, but just that mankind is a messed up race.

      September 1, 2011 at 2:06 pm |
    • A Theist

      @Nonimus to follow up. If you subscribe to the "spiritual death" idea, then pain, suffering, fear, etc. derive from a separation from God, the source of all Goodness. That's my take anyway, I don't attempt to make any definitive claims on the matter.

      September 1, 2011 at 2:19 pm |
    • LOL

      "You've said many times there are hundres of sources that confirm more conclusively that there is a "birth based" inheritance, but I have yet to see serious citations."

      It's interesting that the A.P.A. has changed their website text. If you had scrolled down a little bit further, you would have read; lesbian, gay, and bisexual orientations are not disorders. Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. Lesbian, gay, and bisexual relationships are normal forms of human bonding.

      I hope you read the last sentence decades of research and clinical state being gay in normal. If you want all of their decades of research then you should probably ask them. By the way do you know how man experts make up these organizations? Here’s a hint its over a hundred thousand +.

      September 1, 2011 at 3:47 pm |
    • A Theist

      @LOL
      When did normalcy enter into this? My arguments, which have gone entirely unanswered, have addressed the biological component of hom.ose.xuality. You keep asserting, fervently I might add, that it has already been proven that people are born gay. I don't know what science journals you're reading, but everyone, including the APA, has said that there is no definitive proof of this yet. Some take the stance that it is–and here is where I will agree with you–because it has been established that it is not a disorder and therefore it could be harmful to attempt to change something that may or may not be changed. I'm asking you to provide me with an actual, repeatable experiment that conclusively verifies what you have boldly claimed. The American Psychiatric Association (the one's that went on to Med school) seem to think there is no evidence here or there on the subject and is still open for debate.

      I will be more than happy to discuss this topic of normalcy with you, but first please either correct yourself or identify this "proof" you have of biological influence.

      September 1, 2011 at 4:12 pm |
    • A Theist

      @Lol, to make the distinction more plain: Walking a dog is completely normal and has been done for decades, if not centuries or more. Does that mean we are born "inclined to walk dogs"? Not necessarily, they are completely different elements of debate. Something can be considered "normal" and still not be onset biologically.

      September 1, 2011 at 4:16 pm |
    • Keith

      LOL, science has PROVEN it, eh? bs

      September 3, 2011 at 12:30 pm |
  10. HS

    The Pastor should read these scriptures as well as the entire Truth of Jesus.

    2 Timothy 4:3
    Jude 19
    1 Timothy 6:3-5
    1 Samuel 2:25
    Luke 12:4-5
    Proverbs 9:10
    Revelation 14:7

    Amen.

    September 1, 2011 at 12:09 am |
  11. John Does

    He/She is not a Christians. Simply case closed.

    September 1, 2011 at 12:02 am |
    • BRC

      Well, there is clearly no refuting logic of that caliber, well played. For those of us who aren't as quick, do you care to expound on the step by step analysis that so proved that he is not a Christian? Take your time, the more details the better.

      September 1, 2011 at 8:42 am |
    • Martin T

      You are simply NOT intelligent. There it is, case closed.

      September 1, 2011 at 10:23 am |
  12. Keith

    So New York and Vermont, how's that gay marriage workin' out for you now? Earthquake anyone? How about some flooding?

    August 31, 2011 at 8:03 pm |
    • Muneef

      Why and is Irene already over yet? Wasn't that enough or was it before the marriage took place? And what..a Pastor ?? Are you sure guys that the child abuse in churches was not behind many becoming gays? Any statistics of the abused children as to how many became gays and how many remained straight..might we understand what's going on and how...?!

      August 31, 2011 at 8:18 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Keith

      How ya' doing my friend...?

      " So New York and Vermont, how's that gay marriage workin' out for you now? Earthquake anyone? How about some flooding? "

      So, am I to deduce from your statement that you believe that there is a direct link somehow between 'gay marriage' and 'natural disasters'...?

      Am I reading you right here, Keith...? If so, i'd love to hear how you make the causal connection between them.

      Regards,

      Peace...

      August 31, 2011 at 9:01 pm |
    • Martin T

      Keith, trying to tie that nonsense to natural disasters is idiocy. I lived through Hurricane Hugo back in the 80's in SC, what was god trying to tell that state??

      It snowed 300 inches in the UP of Michigan my first year there, was god telling me something??? Come on, grow up, PLEASE.

      August 31, 2011 at 9:07 pm |
    • J.W

      If they were linked why did it take so long?

      September 1, 2011 at 12:45 pm |
    • Anti Christian Taliban Schizophrenics

      HS

      "The boastful shall not stand in Your sight; You hate all workers of iniquity."

      Psalm 5:5-6
      Psalm 11:5
      Hosea 9:15
      Jeremiah 12:8

      Amen.

      ----
      Somebody quoting a comic book again. Cute when people think their religious book has any relevance.

      September 1, 2011 at 2:31 pm |
    • Muneef

      Australia plans to impose carbon tax on worst polluters;

      Right now, a major climate fight is blowing up in Australia - the government is about to pass a law that would cut carbon emissions and get polluters to pay.
      We are all under threat from climate change - including the droughts and storms that cause forest fires, floods and failed harvests. Australia’s proposal would start to shift its economy to halt it. The measure would make polluting companies pay, encouraging them to become more efficient while funding technologies of the future and increasing support to the most needy.
      Let’s send Australians our support today: 
      http://www.avaaz.org/en/australian_carbon_price/?vl 

      September 1, 2011 at 4:13 pm |
    • Muneef

      Is Gayness some sort of Pollution or caused by Pollution to Communities?!?

      September 1, 2011 at 4:16 pm |
    • Muneef

      Bo=========

      At least now we know what they been feeding cattles;

      Study: Mercury pollution causes birds to act gay;

      CAPTION By University of Florida
      Mercury pollution causes a surprising tendency of male white ibis birds to mate with other males, finds a new University of Florida study.

      "We knew that mercury can disrupt hormones – what is most disturbing about this study is the low levels of mercury at which we saw effects on hormones and mating behavior," said Peter Frederick, a UF wildlife ecology professor who led the five-year study, in a university press release. "This suggests that wildlife may be commonly affected."
      http://content.usatoday.com/communities/greenhouse/post/2010/12/mercury-pollution-causes-gay-birds/1

      September 1, 2011 at 4:22 pm |
    • Keith

      300"? Is that all? Heck the Soo got 60" in one storm. Big deal, unless of course it was one of your vehicles that got hit by the snowplows afterward.

      September 1, 2011 at 6:57 pm |
    • Muneef

      Keith.
      Understand that some thing heading for Alaska this time?! Seems at your end Natural Disasters Never Ending!!!

      September 2, 2011 at 1:28 pm |
    • Keith

      Jude 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them, in like manner giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Why should the great USA be exempt?

      September 2, 2011 at 6:10 pm |
  13. Terry

    Lady Gaga sings, "Born this way..." referring to the out working of ones lifestyle preferences.
    Katie Perry sings, "I kissed a girl and I liked it..." shedding light on the motivation to do it again...she liked it.

    Both of these artists have expressed truth to a certain degree...we are born contrary to God, and justify our
    behavior based on the pleasure it brings us. So taken by the pleasure that our preferences bring us, we conclude
    Scripture must be false, or God must hate certain special interest groups.

    Fact is, we are born contrary to God. Scripture serves to reveal what God intended for mankind. Anything contrary
    to His intentions is condemned. Mans free will choice produced the mess we are in. But, God loves each one of us
    so much, He gave His all...Jesus...the Deliverer, Savior, Redeemer...in an effort to save us from the condemnation
    our preferences produce.

    The challenge for each and every one of us originates in a question posed by the serpent in the Garden of Eden,
    “Did God really say....?" ~ Your choices reflect your answer to that question...and you will stand accountable.

    August 31, 2011 at 5:17 pm |
    • The Bobinator

      > Both of these artists have expressed truth to a certain degree...we are born contrary to God, and justify our
      behavior based on the pleasure it brings us.

      No, we justify our behaviour because it's what we're designed to do.

      > So taken by the pleasure that our preferences bring us, we conclude Scripture must be false, or God must hate certain special interest groups.

      No, we conclude scripture is wrong because it's moronic and obviously written by primitive men.

      > Fact is, we are born contrary to God.

      So, then how can God judge us. If God makes us contrary to him, if God makes us unable to resist our base desires as you say, then isn't it God's fault? Do you blame a knife for being sharp if you sharpen it?

      > Scripture serves to reveal what God intended for mankind.

      Correction, scripture claims to reveal what God intends. That hasn't been established as fact.

      > Anything contrary to His intentions is condemned. Mans free will choice produced the mess we are in. But, God loves each one of us so much, He gave His all...Jesus...the Deliverer, Savior, Redeemer...in an effort to save us from the condemnation our preferences produce.

      If you believe in an all powerful, all knowing God, Man cannot have free will.

      Premise A: The future is predicated on the past.
      Premise B: God knows everything, even future events.
      Conclusion: All our actions are predetermined.

      Premise A: God creates humans.
      Premise B: All our actions are predetermined.
      Conclusion: God created humans knowing what they'd do.

      If God creates humans knowing what they'd do, how can he blame them for his failings? It makes no sense.

      The challenge for each and every one of us originates in a question posed by the serpent in the Garden of Eden,
      “Did God really say....?" ~ Your choices reflect your answer to that question...and you will stand accountable.

      August 31, 2011 at 5:43 pm |
    • James

      Seeing as you posted some similar earlier so will I.

      Being gay is not a choice. I hate to burst any bubbles, but science, in fact, is actually not in dispute on this matter.

      All major medical professional organizations concur that sexual orientation is not a choice and cannot be changed, from gay to straight or otherwise. The American, Canadian, Australian, New Zealand, and European Psychological, Psychiatric, and Medical Associations all agree with this, as does the World Health Organization and the medical organizations of Japan, China, and most recently, Thailand. Furthermore, attempts to change one's sexual orientation can be psychologically damaging, and cause great inner turmoil and depression, especially for Christian gays and lesbians.

      Reparative therapy, also called conversion therapy or reorientation therapy, "counsels" LGBT persons to pray fervently and study Bible verses, often utilizing 12-step techniques that are used to treat sexual addictions or trauma. Such Christian councilors are pathologizing homosexuality, which is not a pathology but is a sexual orientation. Psychologically, that's very dangerous territory to tread on. All of the above-mentioned medical professional organizations, in addition to the American and European Counseling Associations, stand strongly opposed to any form of reparative therapy.

      In my home country, Norway, reparative therapy is officially considered to be ethical malpractice. But there are many countries that do not regulate the practice, and many others that remain largely silent and even passively supportive of it (such as the Philippines). Groups that operate such "therapy" in the Philippines are the Evangelical Bagong Pag-asa, and the Catholic Courage Philippines.

      The scientific evidence of the innateness of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgenderism is overwhelming, and more peer-reviewed studies which bolster this fact are being added all the time. Science has long regarded sexual orientation – and that's all sexual orientations, including heterosexuality – as a phenotype. Simply put, a phenotype is an observable set of properties that varies among individuals and is deeply rooted in biology. For the scientific community, the role of genetics in sexuality is about as "disputable" as the role of evolution in biology.

      On the second point, that there is no conclusion that there is a "gay gene," they are right. No so-called gay gene has been found, and it's highly unlikely that one ever will. This is where conservative Christians and Muslims quickly say "See, I told you so! There's no gay gene, so being gay is a choice!"

      Take this interesting paragraph I found on an Evangelical website:
      "The attempt to prove that homosexuality is determined biologically has been dealt a knockout punch. An American Psychological Association publication includes an admission that there's no homosexual "gene" – meaning it's not likely that homosexuals are 'born that way.'"

      But that's not at all what it means, and it seems Evangelicals are plucking out stand-alone phrases from scientific reports and removing them from their context. This is known in academia as the fallacy of suppressed evidence. Interestingly, this is also what they have a habit of doing with verses from the Bible.

      This idea of sexuality being a choice is such a bizarre notion to me as a man of science. Many of these reparative "therapists" are basing this concept on a random Bible verse or two. When you hold those up against the mountain of scientific research that has been conducted, peer-reviewed, and then peer-reviewed again, it absolutely holds no water. A person's sexuality – whether heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual – is a very deep biological piece of who that person is as an individual.

      The fact that a so-called "gay gene" has not been discovered does not mean that homosexuality is not genetic in its causation. This is understandably something that can seem a bit strange to those who have not been educated in fields of science and advanced biology, and it is also why people who are not scientists ought not try to explain the processes in simple black-and-white terms. There is no gay gene, but there is also no "height gene" or "skin tone gene" or "left-handed gene." These, like sexuality, have a heritable aspect, but no one dominant gene is responsible for them.

      Many genes, working in sync, contribute to the phenotype and therefore do have a role in sexual orientation. In many animal model systems, for example, the precise genes involved in sexual partner selection have been identified, and their neuro-biochemical pathways have been worked out in great detail. A great number of these mechanisms have been preserved evolutionarily in humans, just as they are for every other behavioral trait we know (including heterosexuality).

      Furthermore, there are many biologic traits which are not specifically genetic but are biologic nonetheless. These traits are rooted in hormonal influences, contributed especially during the early stages of fetal development. This too is indisputable and based on extensive peer-reviewed research the world over. Such prenatal hormonal influences are not genetic per se, but are inborn, natural, and biologic nevertheless.

      Having said that, in the realm of legal rights, partnership rights, and anti-discrimination protections, the gay gene vs. choice debate is actually quite irrelevant. Whether or not something is a choice is not a suitable criterion for whether someone should have equal rights and protections. Religion is indisputably a choice, but that fact is a not a valid argument for discriminating against a particular religion.

      This is not an issue in dispute. According to modern science: baby, you were born this way.

      August 31, 2011 at 5:47 pm |
    • James

      Erik replied to you earlier so I thought it was fitting to duplicate it.

      August 31, 2011 at 5:48 pm |
    • fred

      Not sure where you guys are going with this given the long winded response. Civil rights is something you can take up with your elected officials if thats your beef. If you are attempting to justify whatever $exual behavior floats your boat don't drag God and HIs Holy Word into it. Sin is an offense against God. If you do not believe in God why are you ripping into the Bible over what is or is not sin?

      August 31, 2011 at 6:15 pm |
    • LOL

      Being gay is NOT a sin, science has proven God created them.

      August 31, 2011 at 6:54 pm |
    • fred

      LOL,
      We have been down this road before. The same organizations you quoted as to orientation is not a choice also said that how you act on your orientation is your choice. I understand how our system of misinformation works and it will not take long before the majority of people start to believe we have no control over our $exual acts.
      Sin is an offense against God, period. Now a debate about what is sin depends on your religious beliefs. There are all kinds of denominations that have rewritten Scripture to suit some needs. When gays come to our church to get married I explain the Scripture to them. If they wish to get married and continue in their current lifestyle I am more than happy to direct them to another church close by that is more than happy to celebrate in their marriage.
      I do not think you want to force Baptists to become Catholics, Methodists and Presbyterians or vice versa.

      August 31, 2011 at 7:47 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @fred

      Hello -Fredster...

      " Not sure where you guys are going with this given the long winded response. (Civil rights) is something you can take up with your elected officials if thats your beef. If you are attempting to justify whatever $exual behavior floats your boat don't drag God and HIs Holy Word into it. "

      I think that part of the whole issue of 'gays' and their having to fight for equal and civil rights is 'because' of (mostly) the Christians making such a big deal out about it, thereby denying their 'Civil rights.' That's why they have to literally fight against the 'laws' that are attempting to be passed against gays such as prop. 8 in California.

      If the Christians weren't taking such issue with gays and demonizing them in our society, they wouldn't have to fight for their civil rights.

      The bottom-line is that it is the Christians by "dragging God and His Holy Word into it"... and... thereby make a huge issue out of something where things like 'gay marriage' ( as far as I am aware) has (never) been shown to be 'directly' and 'tangibly' "harmful" to society.

      Something to think about...

      Respectfully,

      Peace...

      August 31, 2011 at 9:56 pm |
    • Terry

      ~According to modern science: baby, you were born this way. ~

      Is this the same modern "science" that theorizes nothing exploded a billion-trillion years ago, all matter came from the same nothing, impossibly complex life in its astounding variation spontaneously generated from goo, and Bonzo the chimp is mankinds great great great grandpa? .....that modern "science?"

      The missing link is still missing because it does not exist. Evolution is not a sound solution and takes far more faith to believe than, "In the beginning, God created...."

      An honest and humble investigation of the validity of Scripture will satisfy true seekers. Scoffers will scoff. Players will play. But for those who would seek God, humility is a prerequisite for it is written, "Pride is an abomination."

      Pride says, "I don't need God." However, the conscience within us bears witness to the truth of Gods existence. Pride supresses that truth and replaces it with a lie of convenience. A lie that seeks to erase the fact that we will all stand accountable to a God who loves us so much He took it upon Himself to initiate our rescue from sins consequence.

      God Bless You

      August 31, 2011 at 11:46 pm |
    • Stevie7

      Is this the same modern "science" that theorizes nothing exploded a billion-trillion years ago, all matter came from the same nothing, impossibly complex life in its astounding variation spontaneously generated from goo, and Bonzo the chimp is mankinds great great great grandpa? .....that modern "science?"

      -Pretty much, though life is hardly impossibly complex, and evolution states that we adn chimps have a common ancestor, not that we actually evolved from chips. This modern science is also the same modern science that allows you to type on your keyboard and post your thoughts on blogs. You can't have your cake and eat it too. How convenient that you only dismiss science when it conflicts with your preconceived notions

      The missing link is still missing because it does not exist. Evolution is not a sound solution and takes far more faith to believe than, "In the beginning, God created...."

      -Yup, peer reviewed scientific ana.lisis based on concrete and verifiable evidence isn't nearly as sound as saying the book is true because the book says so. And the missing link argument is so old. If you have two points and you add a third to link the two, then people just point to the two new "missing" links that exist between the three points. And if evolution isn't true, then why did your creator give us an unnecessary organ with little to no value that can also kill us. And why did he make us so horribly energy inefficeint?

      An honest and humble investigation of the validity of Scripture will satisfy true seekers. Scoffers will scoff. Players will play. But for those who would seek God, humility is a prerequisite for it is written, "Pride is an abomination."

      -An investigation of scriptue only tells you that the scripture, despite is glaring inconsistencies, claims it to be true. After an indepth examination of scripture, all of it, I became a non-believer.

      August 31, 2011 at 11:56 pm |
    • HS

      "The boastful shall not stand in Your sight; You hate all workers of iniquity."

      Psalm 5:5-6
      Psalm 11:5
      Hosea 9:15
      Jeremiah 12:8

      Amen.

      September 1, 2011 at 12:31 am |
    • fred

      Peace2All
      No, civil union was not good enough and that is where the fight began. Even a simple word change like traditional marriage liscense and marriage liscense was not good enough because they were not the same. Here is the problem and perhaps you can answer the question. Do you violate the civil rights of identical twins when the state forbids the marriage, do you violate the civil rights when unidentical twins are not allowed to marry? There is no scientific evidence that identical twins who are in a loving married relationship are any worse parents than a traditional couple. Do we need any lines drawn at all.............perhaps a 15 year mininum age limit for unbelievers and 9 year old minimum age limit for Suni Muslims.since that is their law. The Bible does not have an age limit so Christians need to keep quite on that one.
      As to most churches they respect the law so civil union is not a deal breaker. Granted there is going to be some gay bashing but you cannot blame the church as a whole because of actions on the fringe.

      September 1, 2011 at 1:53 am |
    • Awkward Situations

      It is absolutely disheartening at times to know that there are people walking around who are so insanely out of touch with reality. I swear it feels like a bad remake of 'The Matrix' at times.

      The rejection of science by these folks is especially disturbing. Most of the time I chalk it up to plain old hypocrisy... but in this case I'm pretty sure the person is either severely uneducated or was born retarded. I sort of hope the person is just retarded because that means it's not really their fault.

      @Stevie7: Hey what's all this about chimps? I thought we evolved from apes? 😉

      September 1, 2011 at 6:41 am |
    • LOL

      "The same organizations you quoted as to orientation is not a choice also said that how you act on your orientation is your choice."

      The point is they can NOT change their orientation, they can NOT change they are born gay, because of that they are entitled to have loving relationships, get married and have children just like straights. They are BORN gay, their brains are wired differently than straights, this has all been proven. It's because they are BORN gay that being gay is not a sin, just like you being BORN straight is not a sin. What the scriptures are talking about is pagan rituals using sex worshiping a pagan god, the other scriptures is talking about male prostitution and rape. Sexual orientation is not written about in the bible, people being BORN gay is not written in the bible. Pickup a history book and read about Roman culture. It's been proven that historically people have been bias and prejudice towards gays, that prejudice runs deep in our society and prejudice that was built on a foundation of ignorance to the facts about this minority group. It's time to stop fueling the hate and prejudice.

      September 1, 2011 at 8:48 am |
    • A Theist

      @LOL Again, I maintain that no such premise has been "proven" by any stretch of the word. That's why there's still a heated debate across the scientific community. Some have decided to take a more protective stance (and assume it's biological) but in either case, there has been not ONE conclusive, repeatable experiment that indicates one way or another how one's preferences/orientation is defined.

      September 1, 2011 at 2:16 pm |
    • fred

      LOL
      Ok, let’s go through it again:
      >they can NOT change their orientation, born gay
      I agree within limits. I say limits because I was personally involved with many gays that were confused because of orientation. The spectrum of orientation is very broad. The gay community and the marriage issue seems to focus on only 4 categories that exist on the ends of the spectrum. The real tragedy is the gay and straight community that con-tinually bully all people into categories many of which do not belong there. I find it is these bullying groups that take away the civil rights of the individual. Yes, a minority of Christians take part in these bullying groups but don’t take your eye off the others

      >because of that they are ent-itled to have loving relationships
      I agree but love is not legislated and many straights run into objections in their reationships also.
      > get married and have children just like straights.
      Now you are confusing orientation with cultural norms of a society. Go back to the history books you want me to pick up. Much of our western culture has drifted back from the puritans to the Greeks. Don’t forget it was an honor for a young prepubescent boy to be taken under the wings of an older man and taught pleasure (Pederasty) . Gender was never an issue in that culture when it came to $ex.
      No matter what you do you cannot have the old fashion traditional family like the Walton’s or leave it to Beaver with a gay orientation. You can try and simulate it because of some psychological need but in the end that is all you have done. Those needs are being addressed today when couples discover they are simulating an outdated traditional family rather than enjoying life to its fullest. They find great relief from their pain of trying to live out a role model that belongs to someone else.
      > It's because they are BORN gay that being gay is not a sin, just like you being BORN straight is not a sin.
      Agreed being born gay or straight is not a sin. Sin is an offense against God which is different than breaking some law a politician came up with. There are many gods and many beliefs all are different as to sin.
      > What the scriptures are talking about is pagan rituals using $ex worshiping a pagan god
      Yes, some do speak of various rituals, prost-itution, ra-pe etc. Now if you boil out those from the Bible (Hebrew Christian Bible) you still have 3 or 4 clear verses that one just cannot get around no matter how hard we try.
      > $exual orientation is not written about in the bible
      Sorry, it is written about in the Bible. Jesus said people are born with different $exual tendencies and others are made that way by man.
      > bias and prejudice towards gays…..was built on a foundation of ignorance to the facts
      This is not true with respect to some cultures over time (early Greeks) that were stamped out by the puritans. Yes, our Western Culture has puritan influences as well as others but the foundation is not ignorance. On a non religious basis it is simple observation of nature. On a scientific basis, evolution and biology rule out any advantage of ho mo $exuality for a species other than display of dominance. As to modern man by extension of evolution theory we are wired to recognize abnormal behavior (some say basic survival fight or flight, others relate to hunter instinct looking for weaker animals) and like the appendix we just have not evolved passed it still being in us.
      > It's time to stop fueling the hate and prejudice
      100% agree

      September 1, 2011 at 3:18 pm |
    • Terry

      Thanks, Mr. The Bobinator. You too Mr. Stevie7. Thanks for validating my presence here. Glad to see the wheels turning on what I presented. I'll keep you two on my prayer list.

      God and science are not mutually exclusive....as though its an either / or kind of thing. God created everything including the laws that govern the universe, gravity, physics, etc. Man is simply uncovering and discovering the wonders that God created. Then, with God given creativity, man invents and engineers wonderful life enhancing ways to utilize their discoveries.

      Not long ago, man set out to count the stars in the sky. His conclusion was just over a thousand or so. With new lenses, we now know the conclusions were quite shortsighted to say the least. It seems each time we think we have the answer, a new lens with greater capacity reveals we've fallen desperately short of the truth.

      Evolution is faith based. There would be mountains of transitional skeletal remains if evolutions claim were true. Total number of transitions skeletal remains discovered to date....zero. Because evolution is faith based, I guess that would make the Missing Link a kind of messiah or savior for those who choose to hold that belief.

      As far as faith and the Bible go, there was a man who had his eyesight restored by Jesus. When asked about the experience, he said something to the effect of, "I was blind, but now I see."

      Not all "Believers" are Believers. Sadly, many make claims, yet by their judgemental tone and hypocritical actions prove themselves to be false and slander by their deeds the Name by which all might be saved...Jesus.

      Jesus said, "...don't be like the hypocrites..." The implication is that there are and will be hypocrites. Ignore them.

      Believers take the word of Christ to heart because something they did not see before has become known to them. I once was blind, but now I see. When revelation occurs, and Christ is revealed, and sin is forgiven, and a dead spirit is made alive through faith is Jesus, every effort is made to share the truth in love.

      Christ Jesus has come as a light to a world of people who sit in darkness. God says you will find Him when you search for Him with all your heart. Half hearted searching will yield nothing. Prideful dispute will end in bitter dispair. But a broken and contrite spirit, God will not despise....for it is written, God gives grace to the humble, but resists the proud.

      God Bless You

      September 1, 2011 at 4:33 pm |
    • LOL

      “. On a scientific basis, evolution and biology rule out any advantage of ho mo $exuality for a species other than display of dominance. As to modern man by extension of evolution theory we are wired to recognize abnormal behavior (some say basic survival fight or flight, others relate to hunter instinct looking for weaker animals) and like the appendix we just have not evolved passed it still being in us.”

      Gay relationships have been documented in 1500 different species so it is part of nature.

      “What the scriptures are talking about is pagan rituals using $ex worshiping a pagan god
      Yes, some do speak of various rituals, prost-itution, ra-pe etc. Now if you boil out those from the Bible (Hebrew Christian Bible) you still have 3 or 4 clear verses that one just cannot get around no matter how hard we try.”

      Jesus never condemned the loving gay relationship. There is no verses in the bible that takes into account the context of how we now understand gays. All the scriptures that people are trying use are not related to the issue facing us today.

      September 1, 2011 at 5:38 pm |
    • LOL

      Again, I maintain that no such premise has been "proven" by any stretch of the word. That's why there's still a heated debate across the scientific community. Some have decided to take a more protective stance (and assume it's biological) but in either case, there has been not ONE conclusive, repeatable experiment that indicates one way or another how one's preferences/orientation is defined."

      Do you seriously think that the APA and all the other organizations that have gone on record stating being gay is not a choice would have done so because there is no evidence. The APA alone is made up of 154,000 experts in their fields. Do you really think the World Health Organization would continue to fight for the rights of gays without anything to back themselves up. You can believe anything you want, but these organizations are not going into legal battles in various states without anything to back up their claims for giving civil rights to gays and lesbians, fighting the prejudice shown towards this minority group.

      By the way it is worth noting that many medical and scientific organizations do believe it is impossible to change a person's sexual orientation and this is displayed in a statement by American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association.

      September 1, 2011 at 5:59 pm |
    • A Theist

      @Lol I think you keep missing my point here. Please see the comments above to resume the debate we were having. You are currently arguing that most psychological associations today take the assumption that gays cannot change who they are, yet consistently you have been claiming–as noted in your first comments–that hom-ose-xuality is onset biologically. I have provided multiple sources–including many from the ones you just listed–that say that the cause for hom-ose-xuality is still uncertain. You have yet to provide this clear-cut proof you keep claiming to have and instead are beating around the bush and arguing against points that I haven't claimed to make.
      In response to your off-topic reply: Of course most societies are going to say it can't be changed! Can you imagine if it was discovered that it really was biological and couldn't be changed, yet all this time they were the cause of trauma and stress in these individuals? The fact is, nobody knows for certain what the cause is or if the individual can be "changed." And what do civil rights have to do with this one bit? Even if if was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that hom-ose-xuality was a choice, would that suddenly deny them the ability to enjoy a civil right others are guaranteed? I highly doubt it. Please separate your emotions and tangential evidence from the topic at hand and address the issue I have raised with you. Where is this scientific proof you cling to so closely?

      September 2, 2011 at 11:38 am |
  14. Bo

    ==========@Munfee===================== I enjoy your sense of humor, but no, it's in the meat. And there are other things in the meat that can cause cancer and this is a lot more unhealthy. I won't eat commercial meat, it's that dangerious. The FDA only allows this because of high paid lobbiest from the cattlemens Association.

    August 31, 2011 at 5:13 pm |
    • Muneef

      Bo.
      Thanks and you are right we are told that Pigs meat contain the most of such bad things germs and what so ever medications and then come as second in line the cattles...
      But all fine we believe as to goats and sheep...!

      August 31, 2011 at 8:02 pm |
  15. Bo

    ==========@Erik1:38==================== I'm going to agree with you about science and hom-ose-xuallity, both men and women are born today with these propituations But it hasn't always been that way. I'm not sure of all the reasons that things have changed, but one of them I believe has been an influence is medical drugs that can alter the genes. Some meds are given for treating certain conditions, but those same meds can by procreation alter the genes future generations. This is a known fact. One observation of this is the early maturation of girls. Not many years ago a girl did not show signs of puberity until 14 or 15 now it is nothing uncommon to see it in girls 11 or 12 even younger. this is being caused by growth steriods given to cattle intended for consumtion. these same meds can cause hom-ose-xuallity. if you don't believe me go to a feeding lot and watch.

    August 31, 2011 at 4:30 pm |
    • Muneef

      Bo.
      So you mean that HALAL meat is safer since blood is drained out from sloughtered cattle...!

      What about the rule of Child abuse in creating that...specially those boys who had their manly parts removed while very young in order to have them more feminine than masculine ?!!

      August 31, 2011 at 4:42 pm |
    • LOL

      "What about the rule of Child abuse in creating that"

      Psychologists, psychiatrists, and other mental health professionals agree that homosexuality is not an illness, a mental disorder, or an emotional problem. More than 35 years of objective, well-designed scientific research has shown that homosexuality, in and itself, is not associated with mental disorders or emotional or social problems. Homosexuality was once thought to be a mental illness because mental health professionals and society had biased information.

      August 31, 2011 at 6:04 pm |
    • Muneef

      ?? Was that an answer or a question? What could have made them be itchy then?

      August 31, 2011 at 7:54 pm |
  16. Muneef

    Some thing is heading wrong over there ! Have my self seen white men hire young Malaysian boys and touching them all over publicly...makes you feel ashame when walking with family and children to see such sights and now further more openly...? This country in being soft in such act would be asking for trouble from GOD and Faithful Men...!

    August 31, 2011 at 4:25 pm |
  17. Bo

    ========@AwkwardSituations12:45========== Question: If you are still around, when have you ever observed Hom-ose-xualliy in an amils?

    August 31, 2011 at 4:01 pm |
    • Awkward Situations

      I don't work with animals so I have never had the opportunity to sit and observe their behavior (hom-o or hetero) for long periods of time. However, I have read some reports about the ongoing studies on animal hom-ose-xuality. You can google it easily or just wikipedia "Hom-ose-xual behavior in animals". Here are two links, I hope they show up properly:

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090616122106.htm

      http://books.google.ca/books?id=EftT_1bsPOAC&pg=PA179#v=onepage&q&f=false

      September 1, 2011 at 5:47 am |
  18. Bo

    =========@Sporkify===================== I have a question for you, not only you, but any unbeliever who wishes to comment. What do you think Christians mean when they say "burnning forever"?

    August 31, 2011 at 3:41 pm |
    • Sporkify

      What does "burning forever" mean? Do I really have to spell it out for you? You're the xtian, you should know better than I do.

      September 1, 2011 at 9:34 am |
  19. Bo

    =======@mywieghtinwords12:27============ I'm not sure if this was directed at my question, but I think it was, thank you. This seems a very reasonable answer to me. A friend and I got into this discussion just a few days ago and we couldn't come to a conclusion. I think you also asked about the info I got on my cellphone. Sometimes more than other times. This was a very short article only a couple paragraphs. From the way some people were making their posts it seemed the 'preacher' was a female, but I wasn't sure.

    August 31, 2011 at 3:31 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      Yes on both counts.

      I'm glad I could be of service.

      August 31, 2011 at 3:47 pm |
    • myweightinwords

      I must not have read the same responses then, with regard to the Pastor's gender. I didn't see any that would lead me to think he was a she.

      August 31, 2011 at 3:48 pm |
  20. s*xy fur

    daddy lucy fur, i got these earthies under My control. Just wait and watch the fun these earthies are gonna have under my trade name s*x..let them recreate!!!!

    August 31, 2011 at 2:38 pm |
    • Lucy Fur

      proud of u my son the strides you are making over the centuries baffles me in inventing different kinds of s8x.

      i will also continue to contribute in confusing these earthies when time permits and when i am not involved in other earthy activities....

      August 31, 2011 at 2:54 pm |
    • s*xy fur

      thanks daddy, and bless their hearts those liberals, if not for them our strides would have been in vain...lets continue our bonding with them....

      August 31, 2011 at 4:46 pm |
    • Sporkify

      I can't tell if xtians are brainwashed or just stupid/crazy. I'm leaning towards a combination of all three.

      September 1, 2011 at 9:36 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.