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Your Take: Comments on a congressman's conversion to Islam
U.S. Rep. Keith Ellison was raised Catholic but converted to Islam in college.
September 2nd, 2011
11:11 AM ET

Your Take: Comments on a congressman's conversion to Islam

It's no surprise that our Thursday post on U.S. Rep Keith Ellison's conversion from Catholicism to Islam fetched loads of comments.

Some commenters discerned a pattern of CNN conspiring against Christianity (have they noticed all our thoughtful stories about Christianity?):

RonnieReagan

Anyone notice this pattern?

Again the SHAMEFUL cnn promoting Islam and atheism at the expense of Christianity. I wonder what the schmucks at CNN will do when they realize the hammer is about to be dropped on their daughters by all the MOOSLIMS.

Lots of commenters vented anti-Muslim sentiments:

jamal
I am an Ex-Muslim. I am free, I am happy and I am now a proud Infidel......Islam is the religion of hate and suffocation. Islam is the religion of wife beating and polygamy. Islam is the anti-women religion and it hates free thinking. Islam is a crime against humanity.

Sara
First Muslim member of Congress? Let's hope he's the last.

Some came to the defense of Muslims. The first one in this list is a response to Sara's comment from above:

Knucklehead
You're quite an American. The founding fathers would be proud.

Judge NOT...
As a Christian, I read the Quran after 9/11 because I couldn't believe the news that a Book of God could incite people in such a negative way. I was right, the Holy Quran confirms the Bible and vice versa if you read them both with an open mind. I am very happy that I read both because both teach the right lessons. For those of you nay sayers that say religion is a way to manipulate the weak-minded, how little you know about life and how little you know about your own potential. Read both as books, then study both as a life lesson. By doing this you will find your place in the World and after. God reigns, God is great and God gives peace to those that seek it. Instead of criticizing others, look inward at your emptiness and know that there is an answer, ONE answer. If you can't understand it, I truly pity you.

sofas
Many of the people who post on this website seem to never met or befriended a Muslim person and therefore put the face of terrorism on every Muslim they never met. This is why it is important to expose people such as these, people who have never left their little oyster shells, to one of millions of peaceful, law-abiding Muslims in America and one of billions of law abiding Muslims in the world. That is the significance of this story. Otherwise, we run the risk of becoming a developed, civilized nation, super power that is a breeding ground for haters and paranoid nut cases such as the terrorist Anders Behring Breivik (the Norwegian terrorist) in this ever shrinking, increasingly global world.

Lots of commenters expressed alarm about what they said are Islamic threats to American culture and law:

Parkerman
I am not going to say that one religion is better than another, but the lifestyle of Islam is not the lifestyle of the western civilization. I am concerned simply that our lifestyle and the laws and culture that made this country great will be lost. Look how made Muslim run countries are. I do not want any impact Muslim law just because we have Muslim congressman. It does not mix.

And as always, droves of atheists lampooned religion, Muslim and otherwise:

McJesus
I believe in Leprechauns. Can you write a story about me too?

cleareye1
All religions are the same. They are fantasy based and would not survive a generation if they didn't brainwash children before they learn how to think. Maybe Scientology differs, but what is Scientology?

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Comments • Islam • Politics

soundoff (493 Responses)
  1. William Demuth

    With all the Crystal Rivers in here, its like it is Patterson New Jersey.

    Shout out to the brothers, and remember sales the Bales, not the whales

    September 2, 2011 at 2:05 pm |
    • Laughing

      Will the real CrystalRiver please stand up? Please stand up?

      September 2, 2011 at 2:15 pm |
    • CrystalRiver

      Hi Laughing, I'm probably going to have to change my name again so these wicked atheists will stop pretending to be me.

      September 2, 2011 at 2:18 pm |
    • HappyMeal

      Remember me? My Multiple Personality Disorder is acting up again.

      September 2, 2011 at 2:19 pm |
    • The Original

      CUT IT OUT YOU STUPID ATHEIST FAKES!!

      September 2, 2011 at 2:20 pm |
    • Kyle

      hitler was a muslim.

      That's why there were so many problems back then.

      September 3, 2011 at 12:39 am |
  2. Muneef

     "Pollution&Corruption"are behind all Human Sufferings 

    --
    Study: Mercury pollution causes birds to act gay;

    CAPTION By University of Florida
    Mercury pollution causes a surprising tendency of male white ibis birds to mate with other males, finds a new University of Florida study.

    "We knew that mercury can disrupt hormones – what is most disturbing about this study is the low levels of mercury at which we saw effects on hormones and mating behavior," said Peter Frederick, a UF wildlife ecology professor who led the five-year study, in a university press release. "This suggests that wildlife may be commonly affected."
    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/greenhouse/post/2010/12/mercury-pollution-causes-gay-birds/1

    If that was the true case and cause for the up normality of few within the communities...! Guess then they had no free will or choice in hand to avoid that...?!?
    ----

    Shouldn't that be a cause of concern for us to fight against starting at some point ? If you agree then got to participate starting from here;

    Australia plans to impose carbon tax on worst polluters;

    Right now, a major climate fight is blowing up in Australia – the government is about to pass a law that would cut carbon emissions and get polluters to pay.
    We are all under threat from climate change – including the droughts and storms that cause forest fires, floods and failed harvests. Australia’s proposal would start to shift its economy to halt it. The measure would make polluting companies pay, encouraging them to become more efficient while funding technologies of the future and increasing support to the most needy.
    Let’s send Australians our support today: 
    http://www.avaaz.org/en/australian_carbon_price/?vl 
    --

    September 2, 2011 at 2:04 pm |
    • Muneef

      "Pollution & Corruption" is behind all Human Sufferings;
       
      Space junk at tipping point, says report

      Space debris: Time to clean up the sky
      Orbital 'housekeeper' proposed
      Near miss for space station
      Scientists in the US have warned Nasa that the amount of so-called space junk orbiting Earth is at tipping point.

      A report by the National Research Council says the debris could cause fatal leaks in spaceships or destroy valuable satellites.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-14757926

      ---–
      Ocean Pollution;

      Pollution in the ocean is a major problem that is affecting the ocean and the rest of the Earth, too. Pollution in the ocean directly affects ocean organisms and indirectly affects human health and resources. Oil spills, toxic wastes, and dumping of other harmful materials are all major sources of pollution in the ocean. People should learn more about these because if people know more about pollution in the ocean, then they will know more about how to stop pollution.
      http://library.thinkquest.org/CR0215471/ocean_pollution.htm

      --–
      Groundwater Pollution;

      Human groundwater contamination can be related to waste disposal (private sewage disposal systems, land disposal of solid waste, municipal wastewater, wastewater impoundments, land spreading of sludge, brine disposal from the petroleum industry, mine wastes, deep-well disposal of liquid wastes, animal feedlot wastes, radioactive wastes) or not directly related to waste disposal (accidents, certain agricultural activities, mining, highway deicing, acid rain, improper well construction and maintenance, road salt).
      http://www.lenntech.com/groundwater/pollution-sources.htm

      --–
      Air Pollution;

      Historically, the main air pollution problem in both developed and rapidly industrialising countries has typically been high levels of smoke and sulphur dioxide emitted following the combustion of sulphur-containing fossil fuels such as coal, used for domestic and industrial puposes. These days, the major threat to clean air is now posed by traffic emissions. 
      http://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/air-pollution/causes
      ---–

      A Greater Pollution is "The Human Moral Pollution";

          Just as the filth around us pollutes our environment, the evil found within and around us also stains our environment. Eyes may not see it, yet it cannot be concealed from the mind’s vision: 

      … Things that come out of the mouth come from the heart and these make a man ‘unclean’. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, $exual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man ‘unclean’. (Matt, 15:17-19)

          If environmental pollution is detrimental for man’s physical being, moral pollution is detrimental for his spiritual being. A body which is morally polluted is perhaps dirtier than a place which is environmentally polluted. It is only a question of recognizing this reality. Man tends to forget it and the Gracious GOD "Allah" constantly reminds him of it.  
          Purification of the soul, consequently, has remained the objective of divine religions, for it is their verdict that only purified souls will enter the everlasting abode of Paradise. So, we must all vie to root out moral pollution if we are to enter this blissful life. 

      http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=human+moral+pollution&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

      September 2, 2011 at 2:07 pm |
    • Muneef

      Human Dignity;

      human dignity.4 Even if this abstract term 'dignity' can not be defined with ...... environment, as well as to combat pollution, corruption and other man- made ..... governance on issues that concern a person's individual, social and physical ... If a Palestinian of the Muslim faith puts forth that Islam is an ...
      http://www.epu.ac.at/epu/research/Chawda.pdf

      September 2, 2011 at 2:22 pm |
    • Jesusismyidol

      @Muneef. You have it right. Great post.

      September 2, 2011 at 9:42 pm |
  3. CrystalRiver

    @Laughing, I'm going to ignore my fakes for a while here. Thomas Jefferson was Christian. Mr. Bill Gates and Einstein con-tri-buted in scientific lifestyles, but what else? Any morality? Giving money? God wants your life, not just money. Uncommitted humans' un-sacrificial money is nothing to God.

    September 2, 2011 at 2:01 pm |
    • I'm The Best!

      Bill Gates gives money to charities all the time. And most of the founding fathers were not christians.

      September 2, 2011 at 2:06 pm |
    • Laughing

      Thomas Jefferson might have been a christian in name, but he also created his own bible deleting any mention of the supernatural god or anything referring to jesus as divine, which I think he was about as close to an atheist as he could be without becoming a pariah to society.

      Bill Gates to date has spent literally billions of dollars and single-handedly erradicated malaria from Mali. His charity is one of the most successful and giving charities in the world, or for that matter ever. If you admit that Enstein has contributed so much to humanity through science, isn't that enough, he used what he had in order to take man to a new level in science. That's an incredible feat that few can claim.

      September 2, 2011 at 2:14 pm |
    • CrystalRiver

      I'm going to ignore the fake (above) and continue on with this conversation. Thomas Jefferson was a Christian, you stupid atheists keep twisting his words to make him validate your own opinion of him. Bill Gate's money is useless before the Holy God, as I mentioned before. Only the true word of God can be seen through the lens of crystal meth and deep understanding.

      September 2, 2011 at 2:17 pm |
    • fred

      Abraham, Moses, Soloman, David, Jesus all contirbuted greatly to man also. Some contributed greatly in the Sciences and others in the Spiritual. Man is body, mind and spirit. Any positive contribution to these areas is a good thing. All should look to how we can as individuals contribute positively in any of these areas. Tearing down one does nothing to build up the other two areas. This would include attempting to convert or tear down Atheists. If not for a few skeptical atheists we may have all ended up in Jonestown. The truth is out there that benefits all three areas. Seeking truth has a diffrent end than seeking after a lie. When you comb the Bible to find wrong you will find where you heart is just as sure as when you look for what is right. As with Jesus the others in the Bible were pointing to a hope that is. Einstein and the others also sought after something more. We seek after something more. I say most of us are pointing in the same direction.

      September 2, 2011 at 2:39 pm |
    • Kyle

      I don't care what religion thomas edison was. It doesn't mean god exists.

      Cuz he doesn't.

      September 3, 2011 at 12:40 am |
  4. Think

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=BzV-jPjCjXw

    September 2, 2011 at 1:57 pm |
    • Jesusismyidol

      AMEN.

      September 2, 2011 at 10:28 pm |
  5. CrystalRiver

    @Laughing, there is no record of saintly atheist; just notorious planet polluters and mass murderers where as Christianity has rich records of real sacrificial rescuers of mankind. Those you look to is amoral sci-fi writers or fattened super-rich whereas our heroes are real charity givers. @William, Egyptians killed far more number of Hebrew male babies. When judgment is bestowed, it is collective. The society as a whole gets hit. God takes care of innocent humans but evil tribes like Sodomites and Canaanites get utter extinction either by natural disasters or wars as they should not survive at all for the sake of others and future generations. God decides it as the Creator. Ancient Israel eliminated only hideous child-killing villains, none else.

    September 2, 2011 at 1:47 pm |
    • William Demuth

      SO if I murder your child, then you can murder mine?

      Wasn't that Hammurabi and not Christ?

      Didn't JC say to turn the other cheek, or does that NOT apply to the murder of children?

      September 2, 2011 at 1:49 pm |
    • I = rubber, U = glue

      @CrystalRiver

      You have successfully converted me to atheism.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:49 pm |
    • Laughing

      I'm sorry,

      What do you call Bill Gates, Einstein and Thomas Jefferson. All of them have given mankind (or in Jeffersons case America) a lot and are not mass murderes.

      It's all about perception. You refuse to see that the world can be good, regardless of creed and only focus on the people who were good in the name of christianity. You also disregard the people who have done horrific evil in the name of christianity because they aren't "real christians" right? Sorry, but to take one and not the other is being dishonest.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:53 pm |
    • CrystalRiver

      I'm currently an Atheist but I was a Christian 5 minutes ago, and will return to such a state momentarily. Watch me call myself a fake. 😉

      September 2, 2011 at 1:53 pm |
    • CrystalRiver

      William, yes, that's justice and rightful vengeance. Jesus changed all that and you are mocking Christians for following Him. So God will conduct justice and vengeance upon you and give you what you deserve at the end. The warning. You won't be able to laugh like idiots on that day. Repent, now, stupid atheists.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:54 pm |
    • CrystalRiver

      Above CrystalRiver is a fake. I would never call Atheists filthy.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:57 pm |
    • Laughing

      @Crystal

      It really is impossible to get through to you isn't it? Did you not read anything either me or Damian posted about calling people "stupid atheists" and telling them to repent before its too late. You are either the mother of all trolls and I bow to your skillz, or you truely believe most of the stuff you post, in which case I just pity you. It must be so sad to feel like your surrounded by enemies all the time.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:59 pm |
    • Anti Christian Taliban Schizophrenics

      The real Crystal/Adelina calls atheists perverts.

      September 2, 2011 at 2:04 pm |
    • hahaha

      Jesus did not really do anything, a Roman Emperor formulated a religion from cults and hand picked specific books. Then spread it throughout his empire.

      September 2, 2011 at 4:01 pm |
  6. CrystalRiver

    @Laughing: we are not as evil as all we can be, but every area of our life is tainted by sin – the reality of total depravity as the Bible says. Recall the commandments. We broke every single one of them not as bad as it can go but to certain extent. We need atonement of Jesus for cleansing. Read both Deuteronomy and the Book of Hebrews. @Martin: Where is the freedom of speeches in USA? Is it applicable just to atheists and none to Christians? Why don't you monitor your fellow atheists?

    September 2, 2011 at 1:22 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Monitor poeple?

      Your Korean side is showing.

      Perhaps reeducation as well? Worship as Adelina says or off to the Gulag?

      September 2, 2011 at 1:25 pm |
    • CrystalRiver

      William, in North Korea, atheists execute anyone who says the name of Jesus or carries the Bible.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:30 pm |
    • Laughing

      @ Crystal

      North Korea is communist which has an atheist idealology only to maintain control as the authority figure in the country. It is never right to equate communism and atheism because they are two different things. Its one of the reasons a lot of believers get angry on this blog because people say that since a person "used" christianity to do evil things that it really isn't christianity. I can get on board with that if it also stands to reason that using a form of atheism to further communist ideals does not mean thats an atheist tenant.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:34 pm |
    • William Demuth

      CrystalRiver

      You know Kim is NOT an Athiest don't you?

      Juche is just Christianity, with the Dear Leader playing the Christ role.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:35 pm |
    • The Real Original

      The above CrystalRiver is a fake.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:44 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      @Crystal,

      The freedom of speech is being observed. No one from the United States is banging on your door and arresting you for your comments. Martin is also enjoying this, as likewise, no one is doing that.

      A freedom of speech does not give you a right to not be offended. You offended him, he's offending you. The only way to stay out of it is to cease talking about it...or do what I do. Refuse to be offended.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:48 pm |
    • CrystalRiver

      Atheists have gone insane as they could not eliminate religiosity from humanity. That's North Korea and American atheists are like them. You worship filthy yourself and force it to others.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:50 pm |
    • William Demuth

      DamianKnight

      Come on, give credit where credit is due!

      I HAVE OFFENDED YOU!

      All in good faith mind you.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:51 pm |
    • Anti Christian Taliban Schizophrenics

      CrystalRiver

      William, in North Korea, atheists execute anyone who says the name of Jesus or carries the Bible
      ---–
      Sounds like they shouldn't walk around with a bible or say the name jesus.

      September 2, 2011 at 2:07 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      @William,

      No you have not offended me. Irritated me, perhaps? Definitely. But offended me, no. I don't give you that much power. Sorry, my friend. 🙂

      September 2, 2011 at 2:13 pm |
    • William Demuth

      DamianKnight

      Then be patient.

      I shall redouble my efforts.

      September 2, 2011 at 2:16 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      "I hope so, Commander, for your sake. The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am." – Darth Vader. 🙂

      September 2, 2011 at 2:21 pm |
  7. Michael Grant

    I believe the the person who posted the statement; "We are a western society and trying to mix the Islamic society with ours will not work." This is the core of the problem we face today. Yes, the wars fuel the fire but it's the attak on OUR way of life that angers peple. In some ways this is the price we pay to live in a free society. And, Americans are usually tollerant of different views. When,our core values are attacked though, we go on the defensive. So, even though I am a Christian, I see this as more of an argument of American values,traditions and a way of life that Americans choose to live. Perhaps if westerners would stop trying to impose their way of life on others then we wouldn't come under attack so often. In other words,visit and enjoy and appreciate other cultures but don't try to take them home!

    September 2, 2011 at 1:11 pm |
    • Frogist

      @Michael Grant: I'm not sure I get what you are trying to say. How have muslims tried to attack American core values? I've seen Christians in this country attack American values like freedom of speech or freedom of religion or the separation of church and state much more than I've seen any muslims do the same here. Which I suppose begs the question, why are Americans ok with letting American Christians do that, but not American muslims? And what does bringing home some of the culture you enjoyed abroad have to do with the topic?

      September 2, 2011 at 3:33 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Michael Grant

      Hi Michael...

      " We are a western society and trying to mix the Islamic society with ours will not work." This is the core of the problem we face today. "

      I know of lots of Muslims who live just fine in our western society, so I'm curious, what exactly do you mean when you say that "trying to mix the 'Islamic Society' with ours will not work."..? "Islamic Society"...?

      You Said: " Yes, the wars fuel the fire but it's the attak[sic] on OUR way of life that angers peple[sic]. "

      What 'specifically' is OUR 'way of life' that is being attacked, that angers people...?

      " When, our core values are attacked though, we go on the defensive. "

      Again, when you say..."our core values" are attacked, what do you mean specifically by "core values."...?

      You Said: " So, even though I am a Christian, I see this as more of an argument of American values,traditions and a way of life that Americans choose to live. "

      What do you mean exactly...?

      You Said: " Perhaps if westerners would stop trying to impose their way of life on others then we wouldn't come under attack so often. "

      I'm curious as you stated that Americans are typically the most tolerant country, and yet you are suggesting that we 'impose ' our way of life on others, (not very tolerant) which in turn causes other countries/cultures to attack us.

      How does that work exactly...?

      You Said: " In other words,visit and enjoy and appreciate other cultures but don't try to take them home! "

      What are you saying exactly...? Wear contraception... ?

      Regards,

      Peace...

      September 2, 2011 at 7:41 pm |
  8. herbert juarez

    Someones electoral district must be recently overwhelmingly Muslim.

    September 2, 2011 at 12:22 pm |
    • William Demuth

      AH

      I appreciate the cynicisim.

      I believe most congressman would become Druid or Wiccans if they could further their career paths!

      I actually repect those who are truly devout in some ways, but those who wear their faith on their reelection placards scare me profoundly.

      September 2, 2011 at 12:37 pm |
    • Frogist

      It does make me curious. Did he run on being muslim like all the evangelicals are doing with their religion?

      September 2, 2011 at 3:39 pm |
    • sam

      William, I agree with you so hard on that, it left a mark.

      September 2, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
  9. William Demuth

    Anti Christian Taliban Schizophrenics

    Yes, I believe most self respecting Schizophrenics are offended by your lumping them in with the really crazy people.

    September 2, 2011 at 12:10 pm |
  10. Venus

    Judge Not-

    If you truly profess to be a Christian who has read the Holy Bible and the Quran, as a Christian the Crucifiction and Resurrection of Christ is so fundamental to the Christian belief, the quran categorically states that Christ was not crucified.

    How did you reconcile that statement as a Christian?

    September 2, 2011 at 12:09 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Easy

      One guy makes up a story, and the other guy changes it.

      Its like Post Office with Autistic kids.

      September 2, 2011 at 12:11 pm |
    • CrystalRiver

      Go by examining the historical evidences just as any historic incidents. Overwhelmingly the crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth happened. Groundless denial is nothing.

      September 2, 2011 at 12:53 pm |
    • I'm The Best!

      @ William
      haha
      Religion: the longest running game of post office ever.

      September 2, 2011 at 12:57 pm |
    • CrystalRiver

      @Venus, Muslims could not stand the thought that one of the best prophets of God could get helplessly killed by villains just like that. They are similar to Mormons who cannot take the doctrine of the Holy Trinity because they don't understand the meaning. Whether you like it or not, truth is truth. Jesus died for the sin of mankind and rose from the dead the third day, and those who look to Him alone in faith get forgiveness and salvation as God's grace.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:04 pm |
    • Smarty Pants

      There's a problem with the philosophy that Jesus died for our sins, so much that each church denomination differs to what happened.

      Did Jesus the man die? If so, then there was no redemption.
      Did Jesus the God die? If so, then that is a heracy, because God cannot die.
      God became man, so what was once an immortal God became a mortal man? If I had a square shape of clay, molded it into a ball, showed you and told you, wait, it's still a square, you wouldn't beleive me.
      We all sin to different levels, but the punishment should fit the crime – are all sins equal? If the punishment for murder is death, should the punishment for theft also be death?
      The punishment should fit the crime. God is Just.
      You are either forgiven, or punished, not both. If you slapped me, and told you, "it's alright, I forgive you... now come here so I can slap you" – that is not redemtion or forgiveness, and it is not the work of an Almighty Just God.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:20 pm |
    • CrystalRiver

      The Answer – Jesus is fully God and fully Man. A mystery of God and the revealed truth. Honest and humble humans take God at His Word.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:25 pm |
    • Anti Christian Taliban Schizophrenics

      CrystalRiver

      The Answer – Jesus is fully God and fully Man. A mystery of God and the revealed truth. Honest and humble humans take God at His Word.

      --------
      The words of men is not word of a god. If you wish to put your faith in men that is your choice.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:28 pm |
    • Venus

      @crystal river,

      The above question is to 'judge not' who professes to be a Christian and claims to have read the Holy Bible.

      The question for "judge not" is how did it reconcile the fallacy in the quran that Jesus was not crucified?

      While all historians in the world-Jewish.Roman, Pagan etc, have recorded the fact about the Crucifiction of Christ.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:28 pm |
  11. William Demuth

    What I believe is the KEY point in this story is the fact he WAS a Christian.

    I would love to see how he came to the conclusion that Jesus was not divine.

    Some seem to changes Gods more often then they change their skivies, yet they are never confronted with their sudden rejection of that which they once claimed was perfection.

    Truly ironic, I am sure he drives the Christians wacko.

    Next stop, Muslims on the Supreme Court.

    They will have to hide it to get the job, but the idea of a Koran replacing the Bible on one of their desks is so sublime I can't wait!

    September 2, 2011 at 12:04 pm |
    • Martin T

      I suspect it wasn't that hard for him to come to the conclusion that Jesus was not and is not devine. I did it when I was all of ten years old.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:06 pm |
    • Smarty Pants

      How did he come to the conclusion that Jesus Christ was not divine? Easy, read the Bible. In the Old Testament, God says hundreds of times without the need it interpretation "Oh Israel, I am God", "I am your One God", "I am God". The Christian belief is that Jesus was the God of the Old Testament, and that God does not change, yet there's one problem; Jesus never says in the New Testament: "I am God" or even "worship me" – without the need for severely flawed interpretation. There is a place in Matthew, where it says that Jesus "received worship" and did not complain, or stop it, but if you read the Greek, original text, it literally translates to "Jesus was blown a kiss". Then you have the famous verse where Jesus says "If you have seen me, then you have seen the father". Christians usually say "see, Jesus is saying that he is the father" – but if you read a few verses before, a group was in front of Jesus, looking at him, and he says to them "you nor anyone have ever seen the father" – so he was clearly using the world "see" as understand, see what I mean? Then, he says: "my father and I are one", but he also says, "If you understand the words of the father, we can also be one, like me and my father" – so being "one" doesn't mean one being, but one in understanding. Another thing is that in the book of Isaiah, it says "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever". Well, the Bible itself says it has many errors, and there are no two Bibles that have all of the same verses, some have some, and some are edited out. God's word is the perfect word, and the Bible is the word of God, but also the flawed words of man as well.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:08 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Smarty

      I have also read some scripture that seems to be Christ denying his own divinity.

      Perhaps to avoid the cross.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:37 pm |
    • PZ

      the original 'text' was WAY not Greek

      September 9, 2011 at 5:52 pm |
  12. Kearns

    Parkerman, perhaps you need to investigate some Muslim majority countries which aren't Arab. Turkey, Indonesia, Bangladesh all have vibrant democracies, and are all growing and improving societies. These 3 countries make up over 1/3 of the Muslims in the world, so they aren't insignificant.

    September 2, 2011 at 11:49 am |
    • William Demuth

      Quite significant.

      For some perspective, the US could kill a million Muslims a day for a year, and there would still be more of them than there are of us

      (Note, that is an approximation, census figures are older and only roughly accurate)

      September 2, 2011 at 12:16 pm |
  13. CrystalRiver

    @Laughing. I'm here! Did you read my letters for you? Study hard, man!

    September 2, 2011 at 11:40 am |
    • Laughing

      I did indeed.

      I think what we have is a failure to communicate. You write a lot of lies that you believe as truth and fact, and then get confused when people single you out. Using words like, "filthy" "perverted" and other terms to describe atheists is a lot more offensive then I think you realize. It's also the fact that you don't make the slightest effort to try and see any issue from an atheist, islamic, etc... point of view. It's either christian point of view or wrong, which is impossible to operate like that in this world, there must be compromise in order to live amicably. Not to mention, calling me a "horrible secular jew" in other posts is offensive in that, you first make it out like its a bad thing to be a secular jew, even though most of the world's jews falls into that category and second I feel I've lived up to my heritage as best I can while reconiling the fact that god most likely does not exist. I know thats hard for you to understand because you think if I read the gospels and pentatuach I will change my mind, but I promise you, it's possible for multiple to read the same book and come to completely different conclusions (which incidentally is one of my many issues with the bible itself).

      Also, you say you are Asia and that Korea is only a part of you, but where are you at the moment? It's driving me crazy!

      September 2, 2011 at 11:47 am |
    • DamianKnight

      Anti-semitism is bad, mmkay?

      September 2, 2011 at 11:49 am |
    • @Laughing

      Laughing, I got it that you were offended by my descriptions of atheists and secular Jews. Let's get to the core of the matter. What were exactly the lies that I wrote? Those sounded lies to you but they may be true in objective sense. Man cannot be good without God. It's not an opinion but it's a proven fact. Why do you get offended by my comments while all others especially atheists make garbage statements? Laughing, have you ever realized how unfair you've been to me? You are not good because you do not acknowledge God. You by instinct hate the people of God and what they say. It's an objective observations. If I told lies as you claim I did, you would have left me alone as a lier but you don't, because you know in your heart you are not right with God. I'm formed the way I am by reading the Old Testament Bible. Nothing else influenced me more strongly. Let me ask you. Why did you stop believing in God when the world is full of evidences for Him?

      September 2, 2011 at 12:28 pm |
    • William Demuth

      SO Mahatma Ghandi was a bad man?

      September 2, 2011 at 12:38 pm |
    • CrystalRiver

      @Laughing, I'm ready to discuss the Old Testament Bible with you to the end. The OT has been my teacher. Ask questions. Don't dismiss. Your life is disoriented because you do not acknowledge your Creator God. At the end, it's some sins you want to keep in your life that you felt you did not want to involve God in your life.

      September 2, 2011 at 12:38 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      Laughing, I got it that you were offended by my descriptions of atheists and secular Jews. Let's get to the core of the matter. What were exactly the lies that I wrote? Those sounded lies to you but they may be true in objective sense. Man cannot be good without God. It's not an opinion but it's a proven fact. Why do you get offended by my comments while all others especially atheists make garbage statements? Laughing, have you ever realized how unfair you've been to me? You are not good because you do not acknowledge God. You by instinct hate the people of God and what they say. It's an objective observations. If I told lies as you claim I did, you would have left me alone as a lier but you don't, because you know in your heart you are not right with God. I'm formed the way I am by reading the Old Testament Bible. Nothing else influenced me more strongly. Let me ask you. Why did you stop believing in God when the world is full of evidences for Him?

      @Crystal,

      Ok, I have to step in for my boy, Laughing. He's not evil.

      Your statement "Laughing, have you ever realized how unfair you've been to me? You are not good because you do not acknowledge God." See, this is where some of the problem lies. You're taking your belief system (i.e. Christianity) and then trying to turn it into objective fact. It will -never- be objective fact until we prove God exists on a global scale. Secondly, in one sentence you claim he is treating you unfairly, but in the next sentence you call him "not good" which most interpret to be "evil." Do you understand how hypocritical this is?

      This is what we spoke about before, Crystal. The manner of your message. You turn people away because you accuse them of things without even knowing them. Let God do His job and righteously accuse and convict on His standard. He doesn't need your help. What He does need you to do is to be patient and love people, thereby showing His mercy and His grace.

      Laughing and I have greatly different theological beliefs, but I wouldn't call him evil. We just have a different opinion on something neither one of us can prove or disprove.

      September 2, 2011 at 12:40 pm |
    • CrystalRiver

      Ghandi was educated by the Christian British. He wasn't good enough because he failed to abolish the Caste system and liberate the Dalits.

      September 2, 2011 at 12:41 pm |
    • William Demuth

      CrystalRiver

      So Ghandi burns in hell now?

      Or did Jesus send him to Jeungue-ri?

      September 2, 2011 at 12:45 pm |
    • CrystalRiver

      Damian, thanks. But in my opinion, if atheists don't like what I wrote, they should leave me alone or simply refute the points. Instead, they stalk me and personally attack me. I know what you mean, but American atheists need someone to remind them how wrong and evil they are since it's a fact.

      September 2, 2011 at 12:47 pm |
    • CrystalRiver

      William, I don't know. What did he say in his death bed? He was practically Hindu while actively alive. Did he say anything about trusting in Jesus right before he died?

      September 2, 2011 at 12:49 pm |
    • William Demuth

      CrystalRiver

      I doubt it highly.

      So now he burns.

      Great God you have.

      What about Moses. He never even heard of Jesus, so I guess he burns too? Or Noah, or everyone else from the old testament?

      September 2, 2011 at 12:54 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      Damian, thanks. But in my opinion, if atheists don't like what I wrote, they should leave me alone or simply refute the points. Instead, they stalk me and personally attack me. I know what you mean, but American atheists need someone to remind them how wrong and evil they are since it's a fact.

      @Crystal,

      This is exactly what I mean! They just don't adhere to the same system you do. Let us say there's a Muslim who says, "Crystal, you're evil because in the Koran it says 'XYZ'." How would you take that? You'd probably respond with, "Well, the Koran is wrong and Christ is right..." And this is exactly what the athiests are doing. You have offended (i.e. created a stumbling block for your brother, see Romans 14:13) them and they respond in anger at your accusations.

      You just seem to err on this dogmatic necessity to judge the world. It is not your duty to judge! Jesus says this several times! Do not call them evil. Do not insult their ways. But love them. That's all God wants. For us to preach the word and love them. Don't condemn them. It does you, nor them, nor God any good. In fact, it creates devisiveness and draws them further away from God. Don't give in to pride. (Galatians 6:4, 1 Corinthians 13:4-7)

      September 2, 2011 at 1:00 pm |
    • Laughing

      "but American atheists need someone to remind them how wrong and evil they are since it's a fact."

      Again, that's an op.inion, not fact. For you to believe that I am evil simply because I am an ath.eist shows that you are unw.illing to understand that people can be good regardless of their faith or lack thereof. Do you think the Ja.panese are evil? What about the Th.ai, tri.bes in Africa? and South America? These accus.ations you make, without any basis, like calling all atheists evil because you believe it to be so, is why people "attack you". I mean, how do you expect me to refute your statement that I am not evil short of me conv.erting to christianity?

      September 2, 2011 at 1:01 pm |
    • Laughing

      @Damina

      By the by, thanks for the shoutout bro. I do like to believe that I am not at all evil, and that anti-semitism can suck a nut. One day I think I'll prove to you why I'm right, then again I think you believe exactly the same, and so we carry on the Great Debate. Haha

      September 2, 2011 at 1:10 pm |
    • Martin T

      @Crystal – one of the reasons that atheists take shots at you is because you represent EVERYTHING that an atheist is against.... Dogma, unreasonable behavior, disparaging remarks, and lack of reason.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:11 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      @Laughing,

      No problem. And yes, the Great Debate will continue and eventually, we'll die and we'll find out one of three options.

      1) You were right, I was wrong. My bad.
      2) I was right, you were wrong. Your bad.
      3) Neither of us were right and then we can share living space in eternal damnation. As long as we have HBO and a huge supply of Aussie Cheese Fries from Outback, I'm golden.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:13 pm |
    • CrystalRiver

      @William, Moses and Noah had prophesies on God's Savior since the time of Adam and Eve. The had faith in God's promised Savior; read Genesis and the Book of Hebrews. @Damian and Laughing: I love atheists. I just state facts. Everyone is a sinner and none is righteous. Laughing, every morally responsible human is sinful in the ultimate sense. There was not a single good human in absolute sense. Laughing, goodness is only a relative thing among humans, but not before the holy, all-seeing God. So are you complaining for the point "man cannot be good without God"? Is that it?

      September 2, 2011 at 1:14 pm |
    • J.W

      Oh no Laughing I am still working on my proof of God. Maybe we will both still talk on this blog when we are in our 80s. I should have it done by then.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:15 pm |
    • translation

      let me try to understand what adelina is trying to say,
      looks like she is trying to say that it is easier to overlook evil when you are in a 'Godless' state of mind

      Disclaimer-Not trying to put words in adelina's mouth..-:)

      September 2, 2011 at 1:18 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      What she's actually saying is, God is the ultimate source of good. And a person who does not adhere to God, is therefore, far from the source of good. She's drawing this probably from the "Good tree, good fruit; bad tree, bad fruit" parable that Jesus told. So therefore, a person who is not good cannot do good.

      Of course, then this begs the question of what is "good." What if someone who does things that Jesus told us to do (for instance, feed the poor), but does so, not because he believes in Jesus, but because he feels it's the right thing to do.

      @Laughing, didn't you assign me as the Crystal-translator?

      September 2, 2011 at 1:25 pm |
    • Laughing

      Oh my stars, never thought I'd see the day when someone would pop in to DEFEND Crystal's words. We really are living in the endtimes aren't we?

      I'm starting to get a better picture of your comments, but it would be helpful to clarify your comments in the future. If you "love atheists" as you put it, why then do you demand they all go to North Korea, which you've stated a lot of times as probably the worst place to go. Or the fact that you believe with all your heart and soul that its the atheists contributing to America's downfall, even though I would say a solid 48%+ of people would probably say it's the Christian Right doing everything in their power to tear down and gut our const.itution and replace it with a christian theocracy.

      As for every human being morally sinful. Lets try to stay away from using phrases like "that's a fact" and it's "proven" that this is so, because I firmly believe in the exact opposite. I think and have seen many times that man is perfectly capable of being good and do good things without being coaxed into doing so by the invisible security cameras. Why insist on living a life where you strive and know that ultimately you will fail at being good?

      September 2, 2011 at 1:30 pm |
    • Laughing

      @Damian,

      Absolutely, someone is trying to usurp your position. Also, you bring the fries, I'll bring the blooimin onion and my DVD book, it'll be great.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:31 pm |
    • William Demuth

      DamianKnight

      So, with Jesus as God, how can you rationalize the killing of the Egyptian first born for the sins of the Pharoh?

      Or is killing your enemies children an acceptable doctrine to Christians?

      What about the fetuses that were drownd in the Great Flood? Were they not free of original sin, yet forced to suffer for the greater glory of God?

      It seems quite clear, that whatever murder God does somehow makes it moral?

      The glaring absurdity of that should be apparent to even the most devout.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:31 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      @William,

      I've stated this before and I will state it again. Morality is a subjective term. Americans operate under theirs, Iranians operate under theirs, Christians operate under theirs, Athiests operate under theirs and certainly, God operates under His. God's laws were handed to man, for man to observe and follow. They were not there to restrict God.

      I am not in a fair position, nor worthy, to judge God's actions as moral or immoral.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:39 pm |
    • William Demuth

      DamianKnight

      So insightfull for a Christian to reference subjective morality.

      It is SUCH a secular concept, to see it being used to rationalize religion is endlessly amusing.

      Plus now when I murder, I can feel I am still emulating Christ.

      What a relief.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:47 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      @William,

      I'd be a fool not to recognize subjective morality. Morality doesn't exist in a vaccuum. There is not one standard for morality, objectively-speaking. However, Christians feel that they are subject to God's view of morality. God is subject to His own view of morality.

      Why is this such a difficult concept?

      September 2, 2011 at 1:53 pm |
    • Laughing

      @Damian

      Real question:

      God is supposed to be the furthest you can possibly go on the spectrum of good and evil correct? God is the paragon of good and everyone should try and strive to be as close to that as possible, though impossible to do? I just want to make sure before I ask my next question.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:55 pm |
    • Sporkify

      "but American atheists need someone to remind them how wrong and evil they are since it's a fact."

      http://www.ultimatejesus.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Thank-God-for-non-believers.png

      Ohhhhhh Crystal...without you where would I get my daily dose of batsh!t ?

      September 2, 2011 at 2:08 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      @william demuth.
      The Passover, appears to represent an image of Gods judgement,reserved for the end of time.The sad truth is that those not covered by the blood of Christ will be subject to judgement.The blood on the doorposts of the "lamb" of God,signified the power of God to deliver His people from the imminent judgement.It was actually Pharoah and the Egyptians who set the standard for judgement.Each of the plagues represented a false god sacred to the Egyptians , and Pharoah himself called for the destruction of the Hebrew children.God is not willing that any should perish and has provide opportunity for all to come under His protection,by accepting the atoning gift of Jesus,Immanuel the living Son of God.
      Next you reference the flood,several possibilities exist as to the why.One suggestion is that angelic beings kept not their first estate.Angels ,the sons of God looked on the daughters of men and cohabited with them creating a race of mutants or giants that would have destroyed the human race as we know it.These creatures were evil incarnate, and left to continue, none of us would exist.Another possibility is that God seeing and knowing all things was grieved at the direction mankind had chosen to go,and that as things stood there would be no future at all unless corrective measures were taken.I favor the Enoch explanation,even though the young were destroyed as well, they were already mutant.If it wasn't for the flood you and I would probably have never existed.
      Finally, judgement isn't murder.We may not like it but there is a death penalty involved.The wages of sin is death.We as a society execute people for specific crimes against humanity.God does no less.

      September 2, 2011 at 2:12 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      @Laughing,

      Ah, my friend. I can tell a leading question when I hear one (even without you telling me you're going to ask me another). Here is what you asked:

      "God is supposed to be the furthest you can possibly go on the spectrum of good and evil correct? God is the paragon of good and everyone should try and strive to be as close to that as possible, though impossible to do? I just want to make sure before I ask my next question."

      In one sentence, you say God is the furthest you can go, but in the next sentence you say it is impossible to do. Isn't that, in and of itself, a contradictory statement? 🙂

      But I understand what your question is. I would go as far as to say God is the epitome of good.

      September 2, 2011 at 2:17 pm |
    • CrystalRiver

      Half of CrystalRiver on this comment alone are fakes.

      September 2, 2011 at 2:29 pm |
    • William Demuth

      herbert juarez

      I forgive no man for crimes against humanity

      Especially Mr. Cheney!

      September 2, 2011 at 2:31 pm |
    • Laughing

      Absolutely a leading question. I should have clarified though. When I said it's the "furthest you can go on the good to evil spectrum" I should have shortened it to just, is the furthest on the side of good in the good/evil spectrum.

      However, you obviously did not need my clarification because you state that god is the epitome of good, then how is he subject to such human emotion as simple as petty jealousy? There's a big difference in the OT and NT god, but we see time and time again that god is a jealous god, he will kill time and time again because people worship other gods, he'll even kill the israel.ites he just saved from egypt because they worshiped a calf.

      He then becomes abruptly forgiving in the NT, but one of the 10 commandments is still, thou shalt love no other god than me, or something along those lines. I mean, it's really super duper important to him that we worship him and only him to make that one of the top 10 rules of all time Why? Shouldn't the epitome of good never ever falter to any evil or petty or just bad emotion, like anger, jealousy and so on?

      September 2, 2011 at 2:33 pm |
    • J.W

      I have always thought that the commandment said "thou shall have no other gods before me." Maybe there are different translations, but that would be a big difference from having no gods other than me. I dont see why I couldnt worship Vishnu if I wanted to. He is pretty cool. But Laughing I do not think that God gets angry in the way we would think of it. I think it is more like how a mom would get angry if her child ran in front of a car. God gets angry when we feel like we may go down the wrong path.

      September 2, 2011 at 2:38 pm |
    • Anti Christian Taliban Schizophrenics

      What I find interesting is some of you keep trying to have a normal conversation with a delusional person (Crystal/Adelina/Fairgardden etc)with no sense of reality. A person that actually sees their opinion as fact. You cant have a serious conversation with a mentally unstable person. lol

      September 2, 2011 at 2:39 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      @damian knight
      The Bible says we are to be Holy as God is Holy.That is the goal, but realistically we all fall short of that goal, and cannot achieve it by ourselves.All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.How many lies does it take for a person to be a liar?One, once you have told even a "white " lie you're still a liar and thus a sinner and separated from God.Every sin we commit becomes a lifetime achievement award.God is absolutely perfect,beyond our imagining and cannot by His nature coexist with sin.Sin in Gods presence is dealt with in swift judgement(His time frame, not ours)The solution worked out from before the foundation of the earth was to have God himself, in sinless perfection,come to earth and atone for every sin past present and future that everyone could or would commit.He would take on Himself ,through the person of Jesus Christ all sin and bear the required penalty for it on the cross at Calvary.Our part is to look to Jesus and accept what He did to reconcile us to God.We ,on this side of eternity are imperfect but God sees us as perfect as He, God,views us through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.The debt for all our sins has been fully paid,all we have to do is accept it.Odd that so many reject it.

      September 2, 2011 at 2:40 pm |
    • J.W

      But ACTS we need to love everyone on here. We are kind of like a big family on here now.

      September 2, 2011 at 2:42 pm |
    • Laughing

      True JW

      Can't pick your family right?

      I like your analogy with mom and son. Yes, I have experienced on a number of occasions when I was younger when my mom would get furious because i did something incredibly stupid and dangerous.

      However, it fails when it comes to god, if with a big booming voice he yelled at his worshippers every time they stopped worship, I could understand, but he doesn't, he slaughters them mercilessly. It wasn't just a couple to make a point either, he killd over 3,000 people when he found out about the golden calf. 3000! from an already small, half-starved group still rebounding from slavery. Would your mother cut off your legs if you ran in front of a car?

      As for people of other faiths who may have never had the opportunity to see the miracles that god can give, why not try and persuade them to worship him like he did with abraham, or moses instead of sending his followers to go and just kill them? Where's the sense in that?

      September 2, 2011 at 2:50 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      @Laughing,

      Ok, this one is a difficult one for me, because I am not God and cannot claim to 100% understand the mind of God. So I'm gonna preface with that. Therefore, what I am about to say, take with a grain of salt because it is all supposition.

      First off, God is a loving God. He loves us unconditionally. But He does get angry. Just like a person who loves their child. They love them, but that doesn't mean they don't get angry. As we know, there are consequences to our actions and there is never any doubt in scripture that there will be justice meted out.

      Second, jealousy, in and of itself is not a "bad emotion." Covetness is the sin, jealousy is not. Think about this. If you're married (not sure if you are, but let's for the sake of the argument say you are) and your wife starts flirting with someone else, does that not make you jealous? Why? Because she is supposed to be with YOU. And it is disrespectful for her to be flirting with someone else, because in essence what she is saying is "You don't fulfill all of my needs so I need to go somewhere else to get it." And it's even worse if she does it in front of you. Since God is all-seeing, He sees when we turn to another god, so EVERYTHING is right in His face. And then when we bow down to another god, that's like your wife sleeping with someone else. The ultimate betrayal from someone who you love and who is supposed to love you!

      Third, and I'm hoping I'm touching on all your points, you asked about why God suddenly seems to change demeanor. In essence, He didn't, but it seems that way to us. The Bible says God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Jesus was sent down, out of God's love, to reconcile man to Him. We had fallen so far away from God, and God promised not to destroy the Earth again (after Noah) so there had to be some way that man could get right with God. Now, as we see in the OT, forgiveness for sin came from sacrifice of animals, because this would be a financial hardship on the man. Once Jesus was crucified, He was so precious to both man and God, that he was the one who intercedes (Hebrews 7:24-26) for man to stay God's hand of judgment. We have all sinned, we have all wronged God, but Jesus is the sacrifice.

      September 2, 2011 at 2:51 pm |
    • fred

      Laughing,
      You say OT God and Jesus are different. They are one always in unity "if you have seen me you have seen the Father". The attributes of God are revealed over time to His chosen people. God has not changed over time we as a people are simply in a position to see a greater depth. God was always loving, forgivng and concerned about bringing His people into relationship with Himself. Jesus echoed all the same attributes just in a form we were ready to see. The hope, the promised land is the same. The wrath demanded by pure justice still awaits.

      September 2, 2011 at 2:58 pm |
    • Colin

      Hey Herbert. See, I was right. You do believe in the silly, supernatural stories of the Old Testament. I don't know why you kept denying it. So, how did the feed the dinor=sours on Noah's Ark? Were there black people on the ark and if not, wheredid they come from

      I also have the same question for Australian Aboriginals, Chinese, Sub-Continant Indians, Native Americans, Scandanavians, Inuits, Polonesians, Micronesians etc.

      Where did they come from?

      September 2, 2011 at 2:59 pm |
    • Colin

      Hey Herbert, researchers at Stanford University’s biology department are convinced that two different species cannot mate and produce viable offspring.

      Wow, aren’t they wrong! You have told us how “Angels, the sons of God looked on the daughters of men and cohabited with them creating a race of mutants or giants that would have destroyed the human race as we know it.”

      So, I am going to write to the University and suggest they update this fundamental law of biology to state that “two different species CAN mate and produce viable offspring, provided one is a magic angel and the other a human and that they will produce mutant giants that will destroy the human race”

      Thanks Herbert, that clears it up for us all. It is a good thing we have you to help us see where modern biology is wrong and the Bible is right.

      Do you think Godzilla might be the result of a "cohaitation" between the Angel Gabrial and Sarah Palin?

      September 2, 2011 at 3:12 pm |
    • J.W

      I always have trouble answering that question Laughing. I believe that in the OT God was trying to protect the people who were loyal to him and to demonstrate his power, but as far as why anyone had to die, I am not sure about that.

      September 2, 2011 at 3:13 pm |
    • J.W

      Do not forget to post the letter on here before you send it Colin. Us Christians may have some changes we want to make. lol

      September 2, 2011 at 3:15 pm |
    • Colin

      JW here you go, mate.

      Gentlemen:

      It has come to my attention that your teaching your students that two different species cannot mate and produce viable offspring. I wish to point out that the bible clearly states that angels were mating with women and producing viable offspring – mutant giants no less, that would destroy the entire Earth, unless god drowned them first – along with virtually the entire human race.

      Issues of friendly fire aside, it is clear that this rule needs to be updated and include an exception for angels and humans. While we are on the topic, I understand that another of your lessons suggests that there is little oxygen in a whale’s belly and it could not possibly support life. Well, have I got news for you……

      September 2, 2011 at 3:25 pm |
    • J.W

      You are forgetting the Son of God the most important example. I do not know if Stanford researchers can mate the Christian God with any human, but maybe they could try Vishnu, and try to create a new avatar.

      September 2, 2011 at 3:30 pm |
    • A Theist

      @ JW I do not know if Stanford researchers can mate the Christian God with any human... We can't. 😉 . Then again, I'm not a researcher, but I'll be sure to ask the next time I'm there.

      But to be serious, you guys aren't really attempting to use science to discredit something that is clearly meant to be unscientific, are you? The virgin birth is an impossibility in itself, which is what makes it a miracle or whatever you want to call it. Assuming you believe in a God, then couldn't this God alter the physical world he created to make the things happen that you say can't happen? It's like saying it makes no sense that a person doesn't exist because there is a legend of a person adding more memory to it, but in our experience a computer cannot and will not acquire more memory than its maximum capacity on its own. Apples and oranges, mates. Apples and oranges.

      September 2, 2011 at 4:53 pm |
    • A Theist

      Sorry one of those last sentences was a horrid run-on. If you need an explanation for what I meant to say, just ask!

      September 2, 2011 at 4:56 pm |
    • J.W

      Actually Theist I do believe in God. I believe that to God nothing is actually impossible. I was just trying to make a joke the Colin would find funny. I think that Colin found it so funny that he fell on the ground laughing and still has not gotten up.

      September 2, 2011 at 5:02 pm |
    • A Theist

      @JW That must be the case, because he has been awful slow to respond :P.

      September 2, 2011 at 5:25 pm |
    • J.W

      Hopefully he did not think it was insulting and decide to leave. Or maybe he is busier than we are. LOL

      September 2, 2011 at 5:35 pm |
    • A Theist

      Nah, you can't last long on the Belief Blog if you are able to be insulted, I'm going with the latter idea :D. Being a lowly intern, I find plenty of time to blog here 😛

      September 2, 2011 at 5:38 pm |
  14. Frogist

    It must be a slow day in religious news. Although it would be nice to have an article on the Hephzibah school that was on Anderson Cooper last night. I know you guys have a special coming up on it, but it def needs an article here.

    Also I agree with sofas from the article. There is a lot of paranoia projected on the "outsiders" as a means of allaying our own fears that have nothing to do with muslims.

    September 2, 2011 at 11:39 am |
  15. CrystalRiver

    I can't trust his conversion unless he undergoes more serious hardships and losses and still keeps his Islamic faith. Does he really live as an authentic Muslim, forsaking all the hedonism? I haven't seen any Westerners properly converted into pagan religions except those Western-looking Buddhist monks and nuns. It seems converting to pagan religion is another amusement or cool trends for Americans without paying the correct price. Americans are being too bored. Anyone can claim to be anything.

    September 2, 2011 at 11:38 am |
    • Anti Christian Taliban Schizophrenics

      So says the asian woman (Adelina) who can see acorss the ocean. lol

      September 2, 2011 at 11:40 am |
    • DamianKnight

      With all due respect, Crystal, does he need to prove his conversion? Isn't that between him and his diety? If he claims he is Muslim, then take him at face value.

      September 2, 2011 at 11:46 am |
    • William Demuth

      DamianKnight

      Wow, we agree again.

      One question. In your view if a man does not practice what he preaches, should he be held accountable?

      Should those who don't "walk the walk" be confronted?

      September 2, 2011 at 12:18 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      @William,

      Your question begs another question. Accountable to whom?

      September 2, 2011 at 12:21 pm |
    • CrystalRiver

      Guys, I'm just feeling sorry for serious Muslim if another hedonistic Westerner claim their name for fun, though whether real or fake, this man may benefit American Muslims.

      September 2, 2011 at 12:34 pm |
    • William Demuth

      DamianKnight

      Well in this case the electorate!

      September 2, 2011 at 12:39 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      @William,

      He is accountable to them in the manner of his politics, because they elected him into office. He is not accountable to anyone but his chosen diety for his piety and acts.

      September 2, 2011 at 12:42 pm |
    • William Demuth

      DamianKnight

      Close

      I agree on the piety, but we ALL are accountable for our acts.

      September 2, 2011 at 12:46 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      Perhaps I was not clear. When I said "acts" I meant his "acts of faith."

      He is accountable to the law, his electorate, and his diety but on three different levels with three different sets of criteria. For instance, let us say he campaigns in opposition to gay marriage (I have no idea whether he does or doesn't, but let's use it as an example.)

      Legally – There's no problem. He can campaign on anything he wants.
      Electorate – Those who elect him will trust that he votes in consideration to that viewpoint (i.e. he won't sign a bill legalizing gay marriage)
      Diety – Whatever his chosen faith has to say on the matter, he will be judged according to that once he meets his maker.

      September 2, 2011 at 12:50 pm |
    • William Demuth

      DamianKnight

      Agreed again.

      Here is the kicker. Can his church take ounitive action against him for his votes?

      Here in NYC (and Boston) RCC Cardinals regularly deny communion based on Abortion votes.

      I believe this should make them subject to taxation as a political organization.

      Do you agree?

      September 2, 2011 at 12:57 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      @William,

      No. A church is free to do as it wishes as a private organization. It can choose to offer its services to whomever it chooses. There are churches that refuse to marry gay couples (even in NY and other states where it is legal), they can deny marriage to those who have been previously divorced, and the RCC denies communion to those who may be Christian, but are not Catholic. That is their choice.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:03 pm |
    • William Demuth

      DamianKnight

      So a church that denys a politician communion based on a vote is not political even if the politicians was previously a member of the church in good standing? And even discuss its choices with the media?

      Sure seems like political speech to me, and the cruxt of why I could not in good faith vote for a Catholic.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:17 pm |
    • DamianKnight

      As I said before, William, the church answers only to itself for its actions. I believe that, up until, they break the law (i.e. priests molesting children) and then they should be held accountable to the law.

      Since offering communion or not is not a legal matter, then it falls on the church to do as it feels is right.

      September 2, 2011 at 1:42 pm |
  16. Rainer Braendlein

    Passage from the above article:

    Judge NOT...

    As a Christian, I read the Quran after 9/11 because I couldn't believe the news that a Book of God could incite people in such a negative way. I was right, the Holy Quran confirms the Bible and vice versa if you read them both with an open mind. I am very happy that I read both because both teach the right lessons. For those of you nay sayers that say religion is a way to manipulate the weak-minded, how little you know about life and how little you know about your own potential. Read both as books, then study both as a life lesson. By doing this you will find your place in the World and after. God reigns, God is great and God gives peace to those that seek it. Instead of criticizing others, look inward at your emptiness and know that there is an answer, ONE answer. If you can't understand it, I truly pity you.

    Unquote.

    I have read the Holy Bible and the Koran. Sorry, the Holy Bible and the Koran have nothing to do with each other.

    Summary of the Bible: God sent his eternal Son, who was called Jesus from Nazareth, in order to deliver sinners.

    Summary of the Koran: Muhammad says that Jews and Christians have turned apostate from the only true belief, which is the Islam (in Muhammad's eyes Islam was the faith of Abraham). Furthermore Muhammad says there is no worse sin, than to claim that Jesus, the son of Mary, is the eternal Son of God (don't ascribe partners to Allah). Claiming that Jesus is the eternal Son of God is the core tenet of Christianity!

    Conclusion: Islam is the exact opposite of Christianity. It is not only that Muhammad denies the gospel (that Jesus died for us), but Muhammad even encourages the Muslims to exterminate the Christian Church.

    September 2, 2011 at 11:37 am |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      Sura 5: Verse 72 of the Koran:

      They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.
      ( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #72)

      September 2, 2011 at 11:44 am |
    • Obvious

      judge not is obviously not a Christian, it mentions that quran confirm the Bible but fails to substantiate its reasoning as to where it confirms.
      This is defintely a muslim pretending to be a Christian that has read the Bible.

      September 2, 2011 at 11:47 am |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      MUHAMMAD REJECTS THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST:

      Sura 4: Verse 157 of the wicked Koran:

      And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah’s messenger – they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.
      ( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #157)

      September 2, 2011 at 11:48 am |
    • Rainer Braendlein

      Sura 9: Verse 29:

      Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
      ( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #29)

      Interpretation: "have been given the Scripture" are Jews and Christians, "believe not in Allah nor the Last Day" are Jews and Christians, which don't want to convert to Islam, messenger = Muhammad, Religion of Truth = Islam,

      September 2, 2011 at 11:55 am |
  17. Robert

    lets just keep it like this:
    Don't like the site? Go to a different site.
    Don't like the religion? Good for you, we dont give a damn
    Atheist? eh, okay, just dont turn into an Atheist's equivalent of a Bible Thumper.
    Bible thumper? STFU

    September 2, 2011 at 11:33 am |
    • William Demuth

      Perhaps we are "Origin of Species" thumpers!

      Beliefs compete. Many will KILL nonbelievers in pursuit of dominance.

      I suggest you deal with it, because it is going to get ALOT uglier before it gets better.

      September 2, 2011 at 12:07 pm |
  18. I'm The Best!

    From the article:
    "Parkerman
    I am not going to say that one religion is better than another, but the lifestyle of Islam is not the lifestyle of the western civilization. I am concerned simply that our lifestyle and the laws and culture that made this country great will be lost. Look how made Muslim run countries are. I do not want any impact Muslim law just because we have Muslim congressman. It does not mix."

    This is how all Atheists feel about all religious people (especially christians) in government

    September 2, 2011 at 11:30 am |
    • Frogist

      I'm kind of curious though. What is the "lifestyle of Islam"? And how can you compare the "lifestyle" of a religion with the "lifestyle" of the western world? Shouldn't we compare religion to religion and region to region? Parkerman is making a false comparison.

      September 2, 2011 at 2:35 pm |
  19. J.W

    Another your take where I am not mentioned? CNN is making me mad.

    September 2, 2011 at 11:23 am |
    • J.W

      Or am I still not being profound enough for them. Maybe I need to step it up a notch.

      September 2, 2011 at 11:24 am |
    • fred

      J.W
      McJesus got a top spot on CNN and may soon become a paid contributor. I think you just need a better name if you want CNN attention. I suggest J.W LeprecaunusAgnausium

      September 2, 2011 at 11:32 am |
    • J.W

      You may be right fred, I mean JW is just two letters, doesn't really jump out. From now on I am gonna force them to notice me. Everyone better watch out.

      September 2, 2011 at 11:34 am |
    • DamianKnight

      I wasn't mentioned either, JW! WEAK! Are we not the most profound speakers on this blog?

      September 2, 2011 at 11:36 am |
    • Laughing

      GODDA.MNIT! ME NEITHER! This is Horsesh.it, you and I need to write CNN or something. I mean, I pepper articles with my amazing and gen.uinly profound comments all the time and yet, " I believe in Leprechauns. Can you write a story about me too?" makes the list? I think I'm more offended that they didn't include some of my hilarious jokes.

      Maybe I'm coming off as too des.parate, what if I play hard to get, put a disclaimer at the top of all my posts that say, " CNN, you can not use this in a "your take" article" Maybe then they'll do it, just to pi.ss me off.

      September 2, 2011 at 11:38 am |
    • Anti Christian Taliban Schizophrenics

      I wasn't mentioned as well. Perhaps "Anti Christian Taliban Schizophrenics" is offensive???

      September 2, 2011 at 11:38 am |
    • J.W

      Oh just wait someday all of us will be the ones writing these articles.

      September 2, 2011 at 11:42 am |
    • DamianKnight

      We spend all day on this blog debating with each other and never once do we get mentioned! I'm with Laughing. Some condescending, asinine comment about Leprechauns gets mentioned, but we just get pushed to the bottom of the pile.

      I think CNN is conspiring against us.

      September 2, 2011 at 11:51 am |
    • sauce

      The secret to be called out is
      1)to pretend to be tallulah aka judge not
      2)Never attack the article
      3) If you are an atheist the chances are low of you being called out you will lumped under the category 'atheist', pretend to be on the side of the minority.

      September 2, 2011 at 11:54 am |
    • William Demuth

      I am waiting to see Adelina promoted as a bastion of rationality.

      Whatever sells.

      September 2, 2011 at 12:09 pm |
    • J.W

      You never see Adelina or Sue on there either. What a travesty.

      September 2, 2011 at 12:24 pm |
    • wait

      ofcourse adelina is the 'reality queen' of this belief blog

      September 2, 2011 at 12:27 pm |
    • Anti Christian Taliban Schizophrenics

      DamianKnight

      We spend all day on this blog debating with each other and never once do we get mentioned! I'm with Laughing. Some condescending, asinine comment about Leprechauns gets mentioned, but we just get pushed to the bottom of the pile.

      I think CNN is conspiring against us.

      ------–
      It must be HeavenSent!

      September 2, 2011 at 1:35 pm |
    • sam

      I love you guys. This is fantastic.

      September 2, 2011 at 7:37 pm |
  20. Robert

    I'm just going to say it now:
    We've been trolled Hard

    September 2, 2011 at 11:23 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.