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Your take: Comments on religous changes sparked by 9/11
A child pauses during a ceremony featuring an American flag recovered from Ground Zero.
September 6th, 2011
09:38 PM ET

Your take: Comments on religous changes sparked by 9/11

By John Blake, CNN

(CNN) - The September 11 attacks were more than a national tragedy; the event also set off spiritual crises.

That was the premise of a Sunday Belief Blog story that provoked more than 1,800 comments from impassioned readers.

The article, “4 Ways 9/11 changed America’s attitude toward religion," triggered some stinging exchanges among readers, who fought over the piece's four main assertions.

The story said that 9/11 made America more “humble,” spawned the rise of “Christo-Americanism,” galvanized interfaith efforts and emboldened atheists.

One exchange involved an atheist and a defender of  religion. Commentator Haime52 said that atheists go overboard when they say religion is irrational.

Are they jealous of the hope religious people have in something better? ….. They often ask for proof, visible proof. Who among them has seen evolution or the big bang? Who sat and watched for the millions of years, that they say it took to form fossils?

The atheists response: such criticism is irrational. One commenter, iamdeadlyserious, said that atheists don’t have the luxury of being irrational because their worldview is based on reason.

As for not "seeing" evidence for evolution or the Big Bang, both of those scientific theories have been tested, and ample evidence has been found to support them. But like all good science, they're open to changing when new information is introduced (unlike religion). And more importantly, there's zero evidence for a god. ’

Another reader, a young interfaith leader,  said that her generation is suspicious of anyone who claims his or her way is the only path to God. She said that exclusive claims to religious truth should become “obsolete" because 9/11 demonstrated the destructive power of that type of thinking (the 9/11 hijackers were motivated in part by an extremist form of Islam).

That reader wondered, though: If religions don’t say that they have the ruth, what are they good for? TheRationale commentator said:

Then why the heck believe one thing or another?  It's like there's a court case over who shot the other person first. You either have the monopoly on truth or you don't. It's the same with religions. They all claim to be the right one, and now we're saying...what?

Another commenter challenged the article's claim that America had been “humbled” by 9/11. Wave99 wrote:

As a result of our “non-humble” reactions – Iraq fell, Afghanistan was overrun, and several other nations felt and witnessed our resolve. I do not question whether we responded correctly which is another issue. But, I definitely chalk this article up as another biased writing that speaks mostly to the minority of our citizens who believe America SHOULD be humbled and who DO NOT believe we have religious and many other freedoms.

And, of course, whenever there is any talk about religion, some commentators get carried away. A commenter who identified as Corse, called a commenter he disagreed with a “sleazy bit of trash.”

Your removal from this realm of existence would be a real improvement. And if all the others of your ilk were disposed of as well, the whole country would rejoice!

.

- CNN Writer

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (204 Responses)
  1. Frogist

    I didn't comment on the previous article so I feel as if I should here.
    1)I agree that it forced Americans to recognize the vulnerability of our wold. Sadly a lot of us still have to come to terms with that. And maybe we never will because of our previous arrogance. And that's a double-edged sword. For one, not recognizing how fragile we are leaves us open to attack again. It's the idea that well they did it once so we obviously now see them coming. But it also means we may become stronger because we have always had an image of the US as a country of survivors. Pioneers and cowboys full of ingenuity and courage. It may wake up that spirit. But obviously we are not at that place yet. We desperately need that image in the media much more than this horrid vision of the poor and working class as lazy and the rich and greedy as heroes.

    2)"Christo-Americanism" – I hadn't heard that term before. Above all, it seems a political movement – the Perrys, Bachmanns and Palins are obvious examples. Their response to 9/11 was to make this a "Christian nation" which is a bit counterproductive considering it gives radical Islam yet another reason to focus on the US. And now that Christo-Americanism has merged with capitalism as well... I think you call that a triple threat. The kinder, gentler Christianity has been overtaken by a more opportunistic, bullying one. It's unfortunate because I think religion could have played a genuinely helpful role. It could have comforted those who needed it. Made us gentler, given us empathy for the world beyond us. Instead it has made us more corrupt. More willing to see the differences rather than the similarities. More eager to create enemies to root out rather than look for them. And while that can be comforting to some to have any enemy to rage against, it doesn't make us safer.

    3)Interfaith efforts are commendable I think because they take a more secular and less fundamentalist approach to religion. Everything in moderation. Even religion. Learning about another person's religion from someone who is willing to see the beauty in yours is the start of true religious tolerance. And I find it so saddening that people will go out of their way to put down that effort as lies if it is a muslim or lukewarm if it is a christian. It's almost as if they don't want a country built on religious freedom.

    4)I agree that the rise in atheism in this country is directly related to 9/11 and the resulting rise of the political Christo-American. Most non-believers see the increase in Christian influence on politics as the same road that radical Islam is on. Two faces of the same coin. And thank goodness for the non-believers who can hold that mirror up to our country and ask, is that where we want to go? But when we overstep our bounds and call out every religious person as evil or stupid, we have to look into that mirror too. We have to ask what our goal is. Is it religious tolerance and freedom? Or is it abolishing religion altogether? In my opinion, the former is the truly noble goal.

    September 7, 2011 at 11:29 am |
    • Thaddeus

      We have a wold?

      September 7, 2011 at 11:40 am |
    • Horenblorr

      How can religious tolerance and freedom be a noble goal when religions are anything BUT noble? They are filled with lies and distort the perceptions of the believers until they think the rankest sort of evil is the greatest good.
      I know you mean well, but good intentions never changed harsh reality into a fantasyland of mutual love. That's not how human brains work. But I would prefer everyone getting along to the opposite, yet humans have never done that. We aren't built that way.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:47 am |
    • John Richardson

      1) Capitalism is far and away the greatest wealth generator the world has known. Without it, we'd be back in a state of near universal poverty. How individuals and societies deal with that wealth is what makes a difference. Wealth makes charity possible. Wealth makes social programs that have a chance in hell of working possible. It's a tool. Not an end in itself. It's no one's enemy, but it's only a tool.

      2) I concur that the political movement worth fighting for is a universal secularism that breeds tolerance and mutual respect, but also keeps religious based legislation in check. Within that world, Muslims can seek to create more Muslims, Christians more Christians and Atheists more Atheists through open debate, not persecution or threats. How that plays out is for the future to determine.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:48 am |
    • John Richardson

      @Horenblorr In a truly secular world in which there is universal freedom of belief and conscience, you can make your case against religion and they can make their case for it. What you can't do is bring about a more civilized world through uncivilized means like the banning of this or that belief or any other form of coercion or persecution.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:52 am |
    • The Runs

      Horrenblorr just got burneddddddddd.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:58 am |
    • WIlliam Demuth

      Abolishing religion isn't possible, the weak will pander for a new God, and the shrewd will provide one.

      What is possible is to seperate church and state PERMANENTLY.

      Freedom of, must include freedom from.

      September 7, 2011 at 12:24 pm |
    • Horenblorr

      "John Richardson
      @Horenblorr In a truly secular world in which there is universal freedom of belief and conscience, you can make your case against religion and they can make their case for it. What you can't do is bring about a more civilized world through uncivilized means like the banning of this or that belief or any other form of coercion or persecution."

      W-T-F?
      Did you even read what I wrote? I said nothing about banning anything or doing "uncivilized" things.
      Maybe you've got me confused with someone else.

      September 7, 2011 at 12:46 pm |
    • BG

      @ Demuth

      " Abolishing religion isn't possible, the weak will pander for a new God, and the shrewd will provide one."
      Probably the most profound (and correct) thing you've ever said. When your reality light is on, you're pretty bright.

      "What is possible is to seperate [sic] church and state PERMANENTLY."
      The converse. Porch light's flickering.

      September 7, 2011 at 12:50 pm |
    • John Richardson

      @Horenblorr Yeah, I read what you wrote, and just reread it to make sure I didn't misunderstand anything. Nope. It all checks out. Perhaps YOU should reread what you wrote.

      September 7, 2011 at 2:07 pm |
    • Frogist

      @Horrenblor: I'm not sure what you're saying. If the choices are between the full-fledged fight for abolishing religions and a state of tolerance for them and us, I choose the latter. I think it is infinitely more probable and beneficial to learn tolerance of differences as a skill that can be carried to other areas beyond religion, than fight to remove one area of disagreement, only to have another take its place.
      @John Richardson: I have no issues with capitalism. I do have issues with religion being married to capitalism as a show of who is patriotic or moral. When we make wealth a measure of morality, and any rejection of that makes you unpatriotic and immoral, it becomes a problem for me. There is a lot of that going on currently, and I don't support it.

      September 7, 2011 at 2:35 pm |
    • John Richardson

      @Frogist Gotcha! No argument from me on that observation!

      September 7, 2011 at 11:13 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Frogist,you wrote, " the rise in atheism in this country is directly related to 9/11." Not true. The reason you are an atheist is due to your laziness.

      It takes courage to be a Christian. Only lazy cowards are the dry bones in this world.

      Amen.

      September 8, 2011 at 9:34 am |
  2. Alfonzo Muchanzo

    Atheists are so angry. Sorry guys, I'd hate to live life so angrily and bitter 🙁

    September 7, 2011 at 11:20 am |
    • BRC

      Not to be argumentative, but you forgot a qualifier in your statement. MANY athiests are so angry. Of course the same could be said about all people, I don't think atheism has anything to do with it. But yes, many people are angry.

      I am an atheist, and one of the few times I'm ever really angry is when I'm in traffic (horay Baltimore-Washington area); but I don't think that has anything to do with religion.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:24 am |
    • Awkward Situations

      It makes for amazing se_x. Totally worth it.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:25 am |
    • Alfonzo Muchanzo

      @BRC – Lol yea I should've said Many, clearly everyone does not fit into a one size fits all mold, however that was a generalization. And yes, the DC traffic does make one angry and is something I'll never miss if I ever leave this city.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:31 am |
    • WIlliam Demuth

      Alfonzo Muchanzo

      I would hate to live life so terrified of death that I check all reason at the door of some church dedicated to lies and hatred.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:36 am |
    • Laughing

      @BRC

      I don't think I have EVER gotten as angry as I have been on the beltway at 5:30 pm on a wednesday. I actually might have sprained my middle finger. If anyone (believer or christian) thinks there's anger on this board, I do highly reccomend taking a drive during rush hour on the beltway, I can guarantee you'll find anger you never knew existed.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:37 am |
    • Thaddeus

      Yes, the se-x is one of the bright spots about being an atheist. When my wife screams out "oh god!" I know she didn't suddenly become a religious nut. No sirree. She just likes borrowing epithets when a great orgasm blows through her luscious body.
      That atheism provides no good things to yell out during se-x is one of the bad sides to atheism.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:38 am |
    • BG

      Nope. There's nothing in Afghanistan. It's just barren, rocky desert... except for the massive amounts of lithium, uranium, gold and iron ore which are being smuggled out by eastern countries, unabated, every day.

      http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2007/1042/html/uranium.html

      Come on, people.. get a clue for god's sake. Exactly -what- do you think is going on over there? There's a reason that Afghanistan is undeveloped.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:38 am |
    • Stevie7

      I'm an atheist, I don't think the generalization fits in the least, and I've never been happier now that I'm living several thousand miles away from my former beltway commute.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:38 am |
    • Awkward Situations

      @Thaddeus: "Ohhh nothingness!!" doesn't quite capture the moment. Too many syllables.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:41 am |
    • Thaddeus

      lol
      "oh yeahhh" works pretty well sometimes. Or just some wordless gasp works too.
      I agree that too many syllables is a bad thing. 😀

      September 7, 2011 at 11:49 am |
    • WIlliam Demuth

      Referencing the Big Bang has a certain egocentric quality I admire

      September 7, 2011 at 11:50 am |
    • Awkward Situations

      "Ohh god!" and "Big Bang"

      Atheists: bringing science and religion together. (in the bedroom)

      September 7, 2011 at 11:56 am |
  3. RightTurnClyde

    No man is an island and yet all men are divided and at odds. The chasm between European and Islam has gone on since it began in 600 AD. There were intellectual arguments (like these0 between Aquinas and "the Arab" in 1300 AD. There were annual wars between the Europeans and the Ottomans .. we into E. Europe. There were repeated invasions of Spain. There were on going skirmishes since the beginning of the Tsarist empire and before that with the Cossacks and the Tatars (all of whom were not Islam). Tamerland had a big battle with Islam in what is now Turkey. The Indians have had wars with them and even the Chinese (who are extremely peaceful) Connect the dots.

    September 7, 2011 at 11:11 am |
    • Tsar Chimolykin

      Did you have a point you were trying to make? I think you left it out.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:15 am |
    • tallulah13

      Connecting the dots leads us to the fact that humans are violent and warlike. We knew this. The desire for conquest is a common denominator of the majority of humanity. However, looking at history tells us that any war in the middle east is a fool's game. The British to the Russians and now the US. can tell you very little is gained there, but much is lost.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:21 am |
    • BG

      (posted in error above.. sorry.)

      @tallulah13

      Nope. There's nothing in Afghanistan. It's just barren, rocky desert... except for the massive amounts of lithium, uranium, gold and iron ore which are being smuggled out by eastern countries, unabated, every day.

      http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2007/1042/html/uranium.html

      Come on, people.. get a clue for god's sake. Exactly -what- do you think is going on over there? There's a reason that Afghanistan is undeveloped.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:40 am |
    • Stevie7

      @tallulah – why is it that people don't know the most famous classic blunder: never get involved in a land war in Asia.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:50 am |
    • Lisping

      Incontheivable!

      September 7, 2011 at 12:49 pm |
    • Laughing

      No more rhyming now, I mean it!

      September 7, 2011 at 1:39 pm |
    • Andre

      Anybody want a peanut?

      September 7, 2011 at 1:45 pm |
    • RightTurnClyde

      hahaha .. you folks are sad. you can't of don't want to see it. Well you probably cannot find your key stir with both hand a flash light and a road map. But not to worry because you're going to be taken over within a couple decades 9anyway) and it is already happening. The new owners will decide for you.

      September 7, 2011 at 2:20 pm |
  4. J.W

    They must be determined not to put me on Your Take. Although I did not have as many brilliant comments on this story. I expected them to do a Your Take on a different one.

    September 7, 2011 at 10:15 am |
    • DamianKnight

      -sigh- An artist is never recognized in his own time, right JW?

      September 7, 2011 at 11:02 am |
    • J.W

      Yeah I know Damian, at least I know after I die people will read old pages of the Belief Blog and be like wow this J.W really had it right.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:11 am |
    • BRC

      Now that they see you're looking for you they'll probably toy with you. What will probably happen is that one of these days you'll be commenting, and you'll make a post that sums up your opinion well, angers noone, and would go a long way to building better understanding between the moderate believers and un-believers. CNN will see the comment... and skip right over it, then post the song lyrics you wrote on the next page as a joke and claim that some poeple didn't even take the topic seriously. All just to mess with your head.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:14 am |
    • DamianKnight

      Saint J.W. does have a nice ring to it, doesn't it? 🙂

      September 7, 2011 at 11:14 am |
    • J.W

      I never thought of that BRC. I may have to post under different names. I think if the whole world got a chance to read my posts it would bring world peace.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:23 am |
    • BG

      @ J.W

      -Your- quotes? You mean like "To the people in Arab countries, the United States is their Al Quada." ?

      With your help well have complete world peace.. right after Armageddon. First things first, 'eh?

      September 7, 2011 at 11:51 am |
    • J.W

      I think that was taken out of context. My point of the entire post was that we need to form an understanding, because we each think of the other as evil, but in reality neither of us are evil.

      September 7, 2011 at 12:52 pm |
    • BG

      @ J.W

      So when an American soldier offers food or construction, or a diplomat organizes free elections, that is seen as terrorism? No, J.W, I think you're confused. The Taliban are the terrorists of the ME. Not us. You can't misconstrue that. Now if you're referring to the -Taliban's- view of America, that's different.

      It's more likely that the peoples of the ME believe America is 'their' terrorist because the various Islamic leaders and imams are fueling that idea among the masses... and in your own little way, so are you.

      September 7, 2011 at 1:36 pm |
    • J.W

      That does not make sense BG. You just said that I was wrong but then verified the same point that I was trying to make. You were saying that people of the ME think we are terrorists because that is what they were taught to believe, but that we are not the terrorists. That is the point that I was making. That we are misunderstood.

      September 7, 2011 at 1:41 pm |
    • Laughing

      No JW

      You're point was idiotic and stupid, What BG was TRYING to say is that your dumb point, which is wrong, is completely correct. Get it now?

      September 7, 2011 at 1:43 pm |
  5. Doc Vestibule

    When the planes hit the Twin Towers, I was in a mess tent having a smoke outside and reading Dune.
    A young civilian woman came out looking stunned, saying that a helicopter had crashed into a building in the States.
    "It's a jihad", I said as we received the inevitable call to the briefing room.
    She thought I was referring to a science-fcitiony space battle, the word probably being something uber-geeky like the "grok" term I kept using.
    Within a week, the entire world knew what a Jihad is.

    What North Americans learned 10 years ago is that there are a significant number of people with grievances againt our culture.
    The question we should have asked immediately afterwards is 'why'?
    Instead, we bombed them into submission, thus furthering their resentment.
    "Your enemy is never a villain in his own eyes. Keep this in mind; it may offer a way to make him your friend. If not, you can kill him without hate — and quickly."
    — Robert A. Heinlein

    September 7, 2011 at 9:51 am |
    • WIlliam Demuth

      Robert and Isaac Asimov, two of the GREATS.

      We need more like them soon.

      September 7, 2011 at 10:11 am |
    • J.W

      I like that quote at the bottom of your post. I think that we do not understand each other. To the people in Arab countries, the United States is their Al Quada.

      September 7, 2011 at 10:18 am |
    • RightTurnClyde

      No matter how your enemy views himself he is still your enemy and wants to diss you. Mess tent or no mess tent, mustered or not. The only thing you can do is to lock and load and repel boarders, Whoever survives can go on and whoever does not survive is finished. There are no fancy words that can change this.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:00 am |
    • WIlliam Demuth

      RightTurnClyde

      The primary spoil of victory is the opportunity to write history as you see fit!

      September 7, 2011 at 11:52 am |
    • BG

      @ Doc

      " The question we should have asked immediately afterwards is 'why'?"

      We knew the answer. We've known the answer for decades. We just didn't believe they had the capacity to strike us on domestic soil.

      "Instead, we bombed them into submission, thus furthering their resentment."

      The targets of our bombs couldn't be more 'resentful' if they tried – before all this started. btw, precision targeting isn't exactly carpet bombing, and collateral damage is what happens when caches of weapons are hid among civilians.

      I thought you were smarter than this. I really did.

      September 7, 2011 at 12:07 pm |
    • WIlliam Demuth

      BG

      We killed HUGE amounts of people and basicaly accomplished nothing.

      If we play attrition games, the world loses and the ChiComs are the new God.

      September 7, 2011 at 12:27 pm |
    • BG

      @ Demuth

      " ...and basicaly accomplished nothing."

      Not true. We've proven that their hate for us overwhelms their concern for themselves, and that their society is thoroughly dyfunctional, despite their koranic claims of grandeur, world leadership, scientific discovery, etc..

      I mean, what good is algebra if you don't have indoor plumbing? Really.. And -who- blew up that new school that we built last week? Here's some Caterpillar construction equipment, courtesy of the U.S.A., we'll even show you how to work it. Wait... you have to stop fighting with each other first. Good grief, put the AK down already...

      Now the D4's on fire. Who did that? To hell with it – no more free bulldozers for you.

      September 7, 2011 at 1:15 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @BG
      The civilian casualty count from the aerial bombings of afghanistan in the end of 2011 resulted in an atrocious number of civilian casualties.
      For example: on October 22, U.S planes dropped BLU-97 cluster bombs on the village of Shakar Qala near Herat.45 Twenty of the village's 45 houses were destroyed or badly damaged. They missed the Taliban encampments located 500-700 yards away and killed -14 innocent people.
      Aside from which, the use of these types of cluster bombs is unconscionable.
      British military intelligence indicates that some 60% of the BLU-97 bombs failed to reach their intended targets. Plus, an average of 5-12% of the bomblets in a given cluster will fail to explode, leaving dangerous munitions randomly strewn about the landscape.

      Here is an average picture of U.S. bombings in Afghanistan in 2001:
      October 11th – the farming village of 450 persons of Karam, west of Jalalabad in Nangarhar province is repeatedly bombed, 45 of the 60 mud houses destroyed, killing at least 160 civilians.
      October 18th – the central market place, Sarai Shamali in the Madad district of Kandahar is bombed, killing 47 civilians
      October 21st – a cluster bomb falls on the military hospital and mosque in Herat, killing 100
      October 23rd – low-flying AC-130 gunships repeatedly strafe the farming villages of Bori Chokar and Chowkar-Karez 25 miles north of Kandahar, killing 93 civilians

      September 7, 2011 at 3:25 pm |
  6. USandCDN

    Guess what Muneef? It is the actions of the muslims that unified the western world against islam. You don't see the western world unified against any other religion. You should ask yourself, "why us?". It is because your religion is evil and will never be tolerated here. You people are counterproductive on every level. Has any muslim made a worthwhile contribution to society? Although the west is not perfect look at the mess ALL of the muslim dominated world is in. You not only cannot get along with us you people cannot get along with each other. Mulsims will never be welcome here.

    September 7, 2011 at 8:29 am |
    • WIlliam Demuth

      Speak for yourself bigot.

      I see the good and bad in Islam, but to claim no Muslim has made a contributuion is just absurdly ignorant.

      September 7, 2011 at 8:37 am |
    • Awkward Situations

      Paranoid crybaby. We should eject you from the United States for being so dam_n unpatriotic. You are the biggest threat to our democracy hypocrite.

      September 7, 2011 at 9:58 am |
    • WIlliam Demuth

      WIlliam Demuth

      Me?

      Mine were here BEFORE it was America. Before NY was a State we were here.

      As far as throwing mine out, I seem to recall the last time you rednecks aspired to that, we marched down your way, freed your slaves and burnt your cities to the ground.

      Care for a second round?

      September 7, 2011 at 10:03 am |
    • Awkward Situations

      @WIlliam Demuth: That wasn't for you silly! lol

      September 7, 2011 at 10:13 am |
    • Awkward Situations

      My screen name. It suits me well, I think.

      September 7, 2011 at 10:17 am |
    • Awkward Situations

      @USandCDN: Paranoid crybaby. We should eject you from the United States for being so dam_n unpatriotic. You are the biggest threat to our democracy hypocrite.

      September 7, 2011 at 10:26 am |
    • WIlliam Demuth

      Awkward Situations

      My paranoia is showing! Its ugly in here!

      September 7, 2011 at 10:28 am |
    • tallulah13

      Speak for yourself, USvsTHEM. As has been posted, people like you are the greatest threat to the foundations of this country. We can rebuild and we can mourn our dead, but we can never replace the freedoms of this country if we give them away out of cowardice.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:08 am |
    • Alfonzo Muchanzo

      hahahahaha look at William Demuth defend Islam and call someone else a bigot. Apparently he doesn't consider any of his hateful bigoted comments towards Christianity as anything......haha what a joke that guy is. Can't take anything he says seriously. Hates Christianity bc he's an atheist and says all Christians believe in "fairy tales," but is the first person to jump on board and call someone else a bigot and defend Islam, hahahahaha.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:25 am |
    • Awkward Situations

      @Alfonzo Muchanzo: You seem to be illiterate. Atheists do not defend Islam.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:32 am |
    • tallulah13

      Alfred? Atheists defend no religion. However any rational person can recognize when an entire group of people is being persecuted for the actions of the few, or simply the perceptions of the ignorant. This is called bigotry. However, you seem to be more interested in "defending" your faith through unsubstantiated mockery. I doubt very much you are interested in anything but your own opinion.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:39 am |
    • Alfonzo Muchanzo

      @Awkward – I was speaking to William and did not say all atheists. You seem to be illiterate.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:41 am |
    • WIlliam Demuth

      Alfonzo Muchanzo

      My disdain for Islam is as great as Christianity, but I am a practical man.

      It is FAR more likely my child be harmed by a Christian than by a Muslim.

      But in all fairness, if a busload of Christian Scholars, and a busload of Muslim scholars were to crash with all aboard killed, all I would mourn would be the empty seats, and the fact the Jewish bus had run late.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:56 am |
    • Alfonzo Muchanzo

      @William

      And here we have the classic, tolerent, atheist who would make this world sooo much better by banning all religion. He wishes all religious people would die, what a great role model he is for humanity. I'm actually not even mad at you, I just feel sorry for you. You life seems to be rather pathetic and filled with so much anger/hate, sorry man.

      September 7, 2011 at 12:05 pm |
    • WIlliam Demuth

      Alfonzo Muchanzo

      Your egocentric side is showing. Your assumptions couldn't be further from the truth. Life is great, and I have an abundance of love in my life.

      I am free to hate as I please. For centuries we have had the boot of religion on our throats, and being passive kept us slaves.

      No More I Say!. Your faith is a farce, and I shall not be intimidated into quiet.

      You Christians have a LOT to answer for!

      September 7, 2011 at 12:13 pm |
  7. Muneef

    That was just another trick been played to unify the western countries against Islam...
    --
    M. Asad
    Islam at the Cross Roads, S M Ashraf Publisher
    Lahore Pakistan

    THE SHADOW OF THE CRUSADES

     It was then for `the first time in history that Europe conceived itself as a unity-and it was a unity against the world of Islam. Without indulging in undue exaggerations, we can say that modern Europe was born out of the spirit of the Crusades. Before that time there existed Anglo-saxons and Germans,
    French and Normans, Italians and Danes: but during the Crusades the new
    concept of "Western civilisation", a cause common to all European
    nations alike, was created; and it was the hatred of Islam that stood
    as godfather behind the new creation...
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shiatalk/message/30296

    September 7, 2011 at 7:22 am |
  8. revolation84

    Yeah start by read this: http://quran.com/5/51 -> that Muslim are not allowed to ally and friend with Jews and Christians.

    So why they come and live on our soil?? Did the sharia mid east are not satisfy their horned lusty mind??

    very very very curious???

    GET OUT!!!

    I write this under USA freedom of speech, so don't hack or spam at me. I don't attack Islam or Muslim, I just write the fact!

    September 7, 2011 at 5:23 am |
    • jimtanker

      And the bible says that christians shouldnt hang out with non-christians. What about it? It's just a book. Dont make too much out of it.

      September 7, 2011 at 5:28 am |
    • WIlliam Demuth

      Several Jewish texts call for the murder of Christians, yet I don't see you deporting the Hassidic?

      Truth is, if we are going to Judge this one religion, then we MUST judge them all.

      Once one stidies, it becomes apparent that they are ALL based on an obsolete moral code that is offensive to any enlightened individual.

      September 7, 2011 at 8:30 am |
    • Awkward Situations

      @revolation84: No one is going to hack your stupid a_ss, get over yourself.

      September 7, 2011 at 10:24 am |
    • myweightinwords

      1) Grammar and punctuation are helpful in conveying your message in a manner in which it can be understood.
      2) Our nation was founded upon the principles of freedom, including the freedom of religion, which means that anyone who lives here can choose to follow, serve, worship, etc any god or no god as their conscience and heart allows.
      3) Anyone who would deny anyone that right is not upholding the consti-tution of our country and is advocating the relinquishing of their own rights.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:08 am |
    • The Butcher

      I've got him ! His isp rotates client ip's through a open-source proxy, but LISP nailed the local repeater. Now I'm going to distribute his home ip and wireless AES address on to every Islamic blog I can find.

      revolation84, you're f'kd.

      September 7, 2011 at 12:36 pm |
  9. Al

    No comment about the comments about the comments.

    September 7, 2011 at 2:58 am |
    • WIlliam Demuth

      Interesting comment, well spoken, and with a reasoned quality rare for this forum.

      September 7, 2011 at 8:38 am |
  10. jimtanker

    9/11 showed that musIim believers believe more than the adverager christian does. Dont see any christians blowing themselves up do you? Well, unless you include abortion clinic bombers. Oh yea, they dont believe enough to blow themselves up, they just kiII other people.

    September 7, 2011 at 2:13 am |
  11. Carla

    Americans wrestled with the imperialists, atheists and them Muslims. Struggles of this great empire continues as she also searches for meaning in life. Meanwhile, the world continued to get educated. The worst enemy of America is her own moral corrosion within.

    September 7, 2011 at 1:45 am |
    • TruthPrevails

      I'm not going to attack you here but do note that people of every belief system, good and/or bad lost their lives that day. This is not the time or place to be nit-picking about who is right or wrong. It is the time to remember how a senseless act brought a world to its breaking point and made everyone stop and think. This has nothing to do with christians being right or jehovah's or muslims or atheists or deists or whoever.
      Sometimes you need to set aside for a minute the beliefs and look at the one thing everyone had in common here...they are all human.
      As horribly wrong as this was, we should be joining each other to remember those impacted directly and indirectly that day.
      This should stand to prove how literally some take their beliefs and how damaging that can be at times.

      September 7, 2011 at 5:01 am |
    • jimtanker

      @ TruthPrevails,

      While I agree with you, to a point, you are very anglocentric. The events of 9/11 did not affect everyone in the world equally. There are many people who were beind the act that like what happened and many, many more who are completely apethetic to the whole experience.

      September 7, 2011 at 5:05 am |
    • revolation84

      @jimmitsg ^ Only Muslims think that there is some plot conspiracy behind 9/11. You must be a Muslims and Not American! What you doing here, go to international edition!

      I give you some clue, the conspiracy minded of corruption between mid east and Muslim peoples are because they too much watch conspiracy movie that are provided by western to brainwash your mind so you all Muslim and mideast always think corrupt plot conspiracy and create rebellion in your countries. Satisfy??

      September 7, 2011 at 5:19 am |
    • jimtanker

      @ revolation84

      Wow, so much incoherency in such a little space. Was that rant directed at me? Off the meds long?

      September 7, 2011 at 5:25 am |
    • TruthPrevails

      @Jim
      As much as I also see your point, what I stated is only my opinion. I am by no means anglocentric...if I were I wouldn't be so open to other cultures and a great many of my friends are from very different cultures. I do apologize if that is how I came across. However, that said, a better way to have put it might have been that in one way or the other the events of that day impacted the world. I agree that the impact was not equal...I knew no-one killed that day, so the impact on me was different...the morons who committed the needless act of mass murder were willing to do it, ect, ect, ect. In the end though I was trying to get a point across to Carla/Adelina/Justina/Xenia that setting aside her beliefs (as difficult as it is for her) may be in order here.

      September 7, 2011 at 9:40 am |
  12. Fear Fear FEAR ! ! !

    9/11 showed that most Americans are cowards who happily threw away important civil rights because the did exactly what Bin Laden wanten and got very terrorized. They championed torture and secret prisons, renditions to countries that would kill or torture for us with impunity, indefinite imprisonment, illegal wiretapping of Americans. They embarked on two unjust wars that had no hope of creating a victory, in countries that there was no existing group we would want in power.

    Cowardice.

    September 7, 2011 at 1:22 am |
    • WIlliam Demuth

      The ONLY thing wrong with our secret prisons is their lack of Christian inmates.

      If we are going to torture religious zealots, we should do so fairly.

      September 7, 2011 at 10:36 am |
  13. Dr.K.

    "Who among them has seen evolution?"
    I have. You have.
    If you have seen a child born who resembles its parents but is not an exact copy of either of them, you have seen evolution. If you have survived a flu only t turn around and catch another strain, you have seen evolution. It is really that simple. Seeing evolution is easy, recognizing and understanding it is the challenge. Just because one is versed in the popular misrepresentations of evolution doesn't give them the expertise to be a worthwhile critic.

    September 7, 2011 at 1:10 am |
  14. Grande El Gato

    This is the evening of time. There are only two things that are absolutely certain. Death and Judgement. It is Gods desire that all would come unto repentance.

    September 7, 2011 at 12:12 am |
    • Glepe

      How come your god gets industrial disease?

      September 7, 2011 at 12:56 am |
    • Carla

      Mankind always abused the defenseless creatures including its own and the whole planet and made everything sick. God will judge mankind. More power/resourse one had, more severe the judgment will be for all eternity. Mankind has no defense other than Jesus and the evil Westerners are mocking Christianity. The days of mankind is numbered. Read the Gospels and Revelation.

      September 7, 2011 at 1:08 am |
    • Bullsh!t Detector

      Judgement is certain? What a perfect example of religious delusion.

      September 7, 2011 at 1:14 am |
    • WIlliam Demuth

      Jesus called, left a message you were guilty.

      Report for crucifiction at eleven.

      Bring two forms of ID, two 2×4's and three nails.

      September 7, 2011 at 8:40 am |
    • TruthPrevails

      @Carla: you're right the number of man's days is limited...everyone lives and dies...no god to determine how this will happen. The better question would be what great NATURAL disaster is it going to take for mankind to be wiped out just as with the dinosaurs, ect? Mankind's existence is based solely on what happens to the planet...will it be another ice age? an asteroid hitting? a volcano exploding and spewing massive amounts of molten lava? I would wager that this wonderful planet and the people on it have 1000's if not millions of years to go yet...no god needed! By the time this earth goes through the next traumatic event, religion probably won't exist.

      September 7, 2011 at 9:47 am |
    • Awkward Situations

      @WIlliam Demuth: Okay, that was funny. 😀

      September 7, 2011 at 12:35 pm |
  15. RightTurnClyde

    Since this post was a comment about readers comments I would like to acknowledge John Blake for having read (at least some) them and take some examples of what he considered the various "positions" on how 9/11 affect Americans. There are 300 million of us (Americans) and 7 billion (9 zeros)people (soon to be 9 billion!) So we can be sure that 9/11 affect us very differently. I will go on to think is is shameful that a religion instigate fanatics who would do something like that. (and we all feel that McVeigh was negatively motivated in the same way) .. I am certain that most of us (Christians) do not like abortion terrorists or funeral picketers .. that is ignorant domination of others (more or less by force). Not God approves of that (certainly not the ONE who gave the ten commandments) So most of us are repulsed by 9/11 and repulse by those who rejoiced in it and abetted the sick perps. We will not forget it. We cannot forget it. It will be in millions of minds forever. How sad, but that is OUR experience with Islam. And Islam has done nothing to change that.

    September 6, 2011 at 11:51 pm |
    • tallulah13

      Clyde, I agree with much of what you said, but you paint islam with a very broad brush. What was done was done by radical islams, not the mainstream. To condemn them all would be the same as blaming all christians for the actions of Timothy McVeigh in Oklahoma City. Condemn the guilty, not the innocent.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:13 am |
    • Abo

      All religious people are guilty of being brainwashed at the very least or fraudulent at worst.
      The religion determines the motivations and subsequent actions as the "interpreted" religious "values" by each individual idiot "guides" them into making whatever stupid and insane decision they make.
      Painting religion with a broad brush works fine as long as you make allowances for each individual's "take" on the insanity they are immersed in.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:28 am |
  16. Reality

    As previously noted:

    What instigated the attack on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon? And what drives today's 24/7 mosque/imam-planned acts of terror and horror?

    The koran, Mohammed's book of death for all infidels and Muslim domination of the world by any means. Muslims must clean up this book removing said passages admitting that they are based on the Gabriel myth and therefore obviously the hallucinations and/or lies of Mohammed. Then we can talk about the safety and location of mosques and what is taught therein. Until then, no female or male Muslim can be trusted anytime or anywhere..................................

    September 6, 2011 at 11:23 pm |
    • dg

      The answer is actually much broader than you would like to think or admit... what instigated the 9/11 attacks and many other atrocious acts of unecessary violence is religion. Religion goes by many different names but the end result seems to devolve into violence eventually. There are numerous examples of this even with buddhists throughout history.

      September 6, 2011 at 11:51 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Actually Reality, those that orchestrated the attacks (meaning masterminded it) are sociopaths or psychopaths who used the Koran as a tool to brainwash the martyrs.

      That's it. Or, should I say, Amen.

      September 7, 2011 at 1:12 am |
    • Reality

      o On the koranic passages and world domination:

      "Mohammed could not have known the size of the world, but several passages in the Koran show that he envisioned Islam dominating all of it, however large it might be: “He it is who sent his messenger . . . that he may cause it [Islam] to prevail over all religions´(Koran 9:33, M.M. Ali; see also 48:28 and 61:9). M.M. Ali designates these three passages as “the prophecy of the ultimate triumph of Islam in the whole world.”

      Mohammed’s successors, the caliphs, quoted passages like these to inspire Muslim armies as they advanced out of Arabia, imposing Islam by the sword upon a peacefully unsuspecting Middle East and North Africa, as I described in the previous chapter.

      Islamic armies, imbued with what Mohammed claimed was divine authorization, imposed Islam by force over vast areas, all the while extorting wealth from subjugated Jews and Christians to fund their ongoing conquests. As I noted, major defeats at Tours, France, in A.D. 732, and again at Vienna, Austria, in A.D. 1683, halted Islam’s attempt to take all of Europe by force. Gradually Islamic forces were forced to retreat from Europe, except for part of the Balkans. But Islam has again set its sights on a conquest of Europe and of European civilization, wherever the latter has spread to North and South America and other regions. Muslim strategists ask their followers, Why do we find in these modern times that Allah has entrusted most of the world’s oil wealth primarily to Muslim nations?

      Their answer: Allah foresaw Islam’s need for funds to finance a final politico-religious victory over what Islam perceives as its ultimate enemy: Christianized Euro-American civilization. So, Islam follows Nazism, fascism and communism as the world’s latest hostile takeover aspirant.

      Nazis, fascists and communists failed. Does Islam have a better chance at success? I believe it will flounder if we awaken to its threat in time; yet, if there is not adequate planned resistance, Islam does have a better chance of succeeding. Communism’s world takeover attempt was guaranteed to fail because its economic policy was naively contrary to human nature. Advocating the rubric What is mine is thine, and what is thine is mine, communism failed to see that human nature will not keep those two balanced propositions in equilibrium. Like a female black widow spider consuming her mate, the latter part of the formula makes a meal of the former, leading to the collapse of any system based upon that formula.
      In contrast, political systems do well if they can persuade people to adhere to What’s mine is mine and What’s thine is thine maxims.

      Only if a strong religious incentive is added does such an idealistic formula have any long-term chance. Even then success will be spotty. But communism (and Nazism, for that matter) excluded religion. And that mistake was the final nail eventually clamping a lid on communism’s coffin. Communism, on a historical scale, perished while still in its childhood.
      Islam is not repeating communism’s mistake. Mating political cunning and incredible wealth with religious zeal, Islam does have a chance to succeed and will succeed unless major parts of the Western world unite to take appropriate countermeasures. But many Western leaders, unable to believe that a mere religion could possible be a serious political threat, keep proclaiming themselves as Islam-friendly, reasoning that all religions are good-aren’t they?
      A Muslim strategist in Beverly Hills, California, declared several years ago, as quoted by a friend of mine: “Now that the struggle between Western democracies and international communism is winding down, it is time for the real and final struggle to begin, and we are going to win!”

      Don Richardson

      September 7, 2011 at 7:14 am |
  17. Corse

    One of the truths about death is that it removes the bad people from the world no matter how bad they were or how long they keep getting away with doing bad things to other people.
    When that happens, yes, many people can breath a sigh of relief or rejoice at the passing of an evil person.
    Sleazy people like Cheney, Rove, and other nasty lying SOBs will have their deaths celebrated by those who were wronged by those people as surely as the sun rises and sets each day.
    It is the evil people who make this world a hell on earth, who make this place a festering pool of excrement bubbling over into every corner of every single person's life. It is the evil people who have earned the animosity and antipathy of every decent human being with the capacity for discernment.
    Many have no stomach for facing the evil that grows daily in this world. Most people just want to live a quiet life of peace, yet there are always those whose internal makeup includes sociopathic or psychopathic designs upon their fellow humans.
    Those are the ones who need to be removed from all spheres of influence. All too often death is the only way of stopping these people, especially the ones protected by the status quo or simple apathy.
    I rejoiced when BinLaden was killed. He was a putrid example of a religious psychopath who deserved worse than the mercifully quick death he received. When Cheney and Rove pass away (no doubt from old age or something lame) I will smile at the knowledge that a few more sick and twisted evil men have left this world for good.
    I have had to deal with numerous sociopaths and psychopaths in my life. Whenever one of them dies, I am glad.
    Too many people are totally clueless when it comes to seeing the evil in what others do and say. Their inability to see the massive complicated depths of depravity that fill this world is surely a blessing of sorts, for they are blissfully unaware of the sheer scope of evil being promoted by so many people throughout the world.
    Well, Mark from Middle River is a traitor who shows no shame at what he does. He is a liar, a traitor, and is actively engaged in a very real plot to destroy as much of this country as possible so that he and his fellow traitors can one day overthrow our nation and turn it into some distorted and putrid vision that only they think is a goal worthy of the sickest and most underhanded tactics they can bring to the fight.
    When someone is part of a larger group of traitors who would like nothing more than to destroy our country at every level without caring about the people here, I look upon them as filth deserving death for their heinous goals and tactics.
    When a group of vicious traitors like that is destroyed, then, yes, I expect the whole country to rejoice.
    Pretty unlikely though, isn't it? They've got the whole country pretty well sown up and nearly into another major depression, with nearly everyone oppressed and downtrodden and without any hope.
    If I was a violent sociopath like them, I'd simply go postal and take them out, but I'm not. I'm just mortally disgusted that people like this can continue their treasonous machinations against every man, woman, and child in this country that they don't like.
    This country is tumbling into the pit very quickly these days. I see no hope and will gladly die when it is my turn.
    There is no hope here now thanks to these twisted human beings. I do not apologize for wishing the death of evil people.

    September 6, 2011 at 10:40 pm |
    • Awkward Situations

      Congratulations for making it into the article?

      September 7, 2011 at 9:50 am |
    • Hot Toddy

      If one can be congratulated for having their words taken out of context then congratulations!

      September 7, 2011 at 10:56 am |
  18. NoShariainUS

    I think the biggest change has been the opening of thousands of American's eyes to the intent of Radical Islam. We have been ignoring Muslim terrorists even as they have bombed out military installations, and ships, and have even attacked our embassies. We even ignored them when they originally bombed the WTC. Now that they have succeeded with a major terror attack in the US, many American eyes have been opened to the monstrosity that is Islam.

    September 6, 2011 at 10:29 pm |
    • WIlliam Demuth

      Is that why we invaded Iraq and killed 300,000 people?

      September 7, 2011 at 8:41 am |
  19. *frank*

    I stopped reading at "religous"

    September 6, 2011 at 10:18 pm |
    • Eli

      30 minutes later CNN still hasn't fixed it.

      September 6, 2011 at 10:48 pm |
  20. Furstenburger

    First!

    September 6, 2011 at 10:12 pm |
    • Furstenburg's a Nazi

      Leave. And take anyone else who says "First" with you.

      September 7, 2011 at 7:15 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.