September 7th, 2011
03:34 PM ET

Muslim outreach since 9/11 does little to improve U.S. image

By Elise Labott and Jill Dougherty, CNN

(CNN) - Support for Islamic extremism has seen a very significant decline since the terrorist attacks against the United States on September 11, 2001. By the time Osama bin Laden was killed by U.S. Navy Seals in May, he and his al Qaeda network had been largely discredited in the Arab and Muslim world.

But with a few exceptions, the Muslim world's image of the United States is still pretty awful.

How did we end up here – not much better than we were before 9/11?

Read the full story about the United States' Muslim outreach on CNN's Security Clearance blog
- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: 9/11 • Islam

soundoff (132 Responses)
  1. Mr Morgan

    @ REV. RICK you said "And please provide a *reliable* reference that shows that "millions" (?) of Americans and atheists have coverted to Islam. Using Youtube as a reference site is not only useless, it only throws further discredit on Islam. "

    go to this reference http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/0190/9001042.htm

    " Here in the United States, converts to Islam represent a variety of ethnic and religious backgrounds, and account for close to one third of this nation's 3 million Muslims. The vast majority, some 900,000 persons, are of African-American heritage, while the number of white and Hispanic converts is estimated at 75,000.In terms of religion, converts to Islam come from many backgrounds, including Catholicism, Protestantism and Judaism" or you can google it and see how the americans are embracing islam though this people are those changed their names and declared that they became muslim there are thousands and thousands of unknown and unregistered statisticly who live around you, open your eyes and read the quran, that is enough for you and your pathetic americans, look it carefully!



    " The number of Muslim converts in Germany increased fourfold last year."

    FRANCE, BRAZIL, SWITZERLAND, SWEDEN, FINLAND,JAMAICA ETC. you may not tried to discover it, but Islam is your religion, whatever you say against it,

    So i think you can google more than that, i dont care if you like it or not. may allah guide us all.


    September 9, 2011 at 2:43 pm |
    • Muneef

      Still he would say references as from W.D.W...!

      September 9, 2011 at 9:31 pm |
  2. @Sheema

    Muslims will stay in darkness as long as they refuse to read the Bible. And rejecting education on women is anti-God. Let them read the Book of Joel to find what God wants on educating women.

    September 9, 2011 at 1:25 pm |
    • Muneef

      Sure we will stay in the dark since when ever one of us open his eyes to light and needs to do good for his people is eliminated...for example the assassinations of Islamic scientific scholars such of Iraq, Iran and many other Islamic worlds...and not only scientists but any who says a word of truth...!!

      September 9, 2011 at 9:28 pm |
  3. Rev. Rick

    Quoting from the article, "Support for Islamic extremism has seen a very significant decline since the terrorist attacks against the United States on September 11, 2001. By the time Osama bin Laden was killed by U.S. Navy Seals in May, he and his al Qaeda network had been largely discredited in the Arab and Muslim world."

    Oh goody. Now let's disband the Dept. of Homeland Security and remove the TSA from all airports. Life it good again, the terrorist threat appears to have "declined".

    All the U.S. needs to do now is hire a good P.R. firm and convince the worlds Muslims that we're sorry about blaming Islam for 9/11.


    September 9, 2011 at 12:43 pm |
    • Muneef

      What is the TSA ? Do you mean by that the scanning machines? If yes then they were removed because it failed the test and made passenger waiting line longer since it gave false alarm as to sweat and metal buttons such as those you find on jeans trousers... It was Germany who first rejected that and returned it to the American Producers.
      Why am convinced that who ever produced them needed to market them and for that purpose might have arranged the pulling of few strings and actions until it was officially employed...that is common in America...spray the virus then claim to have the cure ready in big quant-i-ties...what a marketing skills those are....!?

      September 9, 2011 at 9:17 pm |
  4. Mr Morgan

    i see many of you christians and atheists "KUF**FAR" wrote alot of messages full of hatred and enmity but the reality is that you don't have basic knowledge of islam or did not read the quran (koran) except you heard some stereotyping articles, reports or books from the media and elites of brainwashing and conspiring, like zionists, illuminatis, free masons and all the so called non-muslim experts of islam hired by the TV stations owned and controlled by masters of stereotyping. Ask yourself when a christian or none muslim makes a crimes or attrocity, they don't critisize the whole christians,but if he is muslim they do. So this is a rhetoric made to brainwash and change the minds of majority of american and create hate of islam in their hearts, but the reality is, that they will never succeed to reach their goal to turn of the light of islam and there are alot of americans, i mean millions of american atheists and christians who converted to islam. All these articles on the media circles are none-sense, if they think that they can stop islam to spread in america, and islam will rule oneday america and sharia will change your abstract ideologies and may allah guide you to islam all haters. anyways i say to you write on youtube" converted to islam" and see how millions of americans converted to islam after 911, then educate yourself the reality of islam, islam is peace and tranquility that every human needs not these hatred ideologies that filled your guts. read the quran now on ...q u r a n e x p l o r e r . c o m , then tell me what is wrong with it. before you educate yourself about islam and muslims, you are ignoran and you have nothing to say about islam.

    i hope you get it.

    September 9, 2011 at 12:30 pm |
    • Rev. Rick

      @ Mr. Morgan said, "read the quran now on ...q u r a n e x p l o r e r . c o m , then tell me what is wrong with it."

      You see, Mr. Morgan, that's the problem. Many American have taken Muslims' advice and we DID read the Quran, and many of us are even more convinced that Islam is NOT a religion of peace – that is, unless you are another Muslim. And please provide a *reliable* reference that shows that "millions" (?) of Americans and atheists have coverted to Islam. Using Youtube as a reference site is not only useless, it only throws further discredit on Islam. It's like telling someone to go to the Walt Disney World website for proof that Mickey Mouse was real!

      September 9, 2011 at 1:02 pm |
    • Muneef

      Actually they say all the three Abrahamic faiths are not Religions of Peace and all three of them had their Bloody History but the difference here is that we are as Muslims had the shortest history of bloodshed since we are only 1400 years old and like yours people of the bible one over 5000 years and the other over 2500 years in bloodshed history....!!

      September 9, 2011 at 9:22 pm |
  5. NoReligion

    I could care less what muslims think of the US, but it would take a lot of effort. Does anyone really care what a bunch of murderous animal think of this country? When they think of the US, I hope fear is the first thought they have. The same fear I have every time one of my daughters goes into NYC for a night of fun with her friends. The same fear I have when I see an Arab man board a plane I happen to be flying on. Let them think what they want, although I suspect the majority of their thoughts have to do with spreading their disease of a religion to the rest of the world.

    September 9, 2011 at 10:46 am |
  6. John


    September 9, 2011 at 9:01 am |
  7. hippypoet


    September 9, 2011 at 8:39 am |
  8. The NetProphet

    I can find no where in the bible Where Jesus called his disciples to hate any one, He taught to forgive your those who hate you and to bless them that attack you. the exact words are in Matthew 5:44 " But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you." I am so sorry that the name of Jesus has been used by some Christians to further there own selfish desires. We who are followers of the teachings in the bible spend so much time not doing what the Lord clearly teaches. To the world I say stop hating each other and do good help those in need, feed people who are hungry, do good to all you meet, Jesus never spoke out against any one except to the religious people at that time and it is not any different now ! From Gods perspective we all are guilty of crimes against GOD and man. I pray that all people stop and think does hate, greed,selfishness solve any thing?
    And to the Christians ? can you really say that you are walking in the truth, when you lie cheat and steal or act like the world around you? we are called to be a light but yet we are no different that the rest of the world, is it any wonder the world see you as hypocrites Does not the Jesus warn about the "yeast of the Pharisees" in Luke 12:1 Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees which is hypocrisy!

    September 9, 2011 at 8:27 am |
  9. Reality


    Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies, and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

    Then, apply the Five F rule: "First Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations". And finally there will be religious peace and religious awareness in the world!!!!!

    September 8, 2011 at 6:53 pm |
    • herbert juarez

      best fix for copy paste, hit report abuse button, get rid of spam

      September 9, 2011 at 8:24 am |
  10. Muneef

    What about Islamic Image?

    I think Muslim community is in deep trouble for it's backwardness and poverty while we see nothing is being done to resolve that...do we no have any other more important things to discuss than Birthdays or which foot first or this or that? So many things are being discussed and focused on that which has nothing about perfecting us as Muslims in front of the other nations...

    Our nation was once a "Light House of knowledge for all those nations...but today we are being given as the worse example among the nations...!! Why was that and where we went wrong? What has to be reviewed and be adjusted... It was our Imams and the educated Muslims behind the failure of the Image of Islam on the face of the nations of earth...
    It was us as Muslims who should have been highly educated masses and be one of the most prosperous nations covered under the Islamic umbrella...
    Islam was based on the investment of the human being knowledge as to Read,Think and Learn for making the benefit beneficial for all Human beings... Islam was based on Mercifulness towards human beings and towards bringing them to know what they do not know with out compelling their belief nor to killing them for not adopting what they do not know of or for their belief...

    If the Majority of Muslim Nation are seen in deep poverty, backwardness, ignorance,uneducated and accused worldwide as being as Sa-v-age and Barbar-i-ans ?? Who would you think would believe you are on the right track? Was or Is that really what we wanted to achieve for Islam Image? How would GOD "Allah" or his Ring Messenger and Prophet..think of our achievements for Islam Image..? What ever is happening is causing fears and doubts to other nations who no longer now want to eat with Muslims or live by Muslims and that is happening now to all Islamic nation worldwide..! They are doubted in fear of their mentality and intentions of their hearts towards other living human beings..! Was it that what we wanted for Islam or was it like that how it should have been??
    In the past of earlier decades every nation or individuals of any nation were happy to deal or trade or buy from Islamic traders marking them as being most honest and truthful...that's how they were known as traders who's their sea trade extended from Indian ocean to the China Sea...those other than the land transportation by Camel Caravans moving between the South and North as well as between the far East and the far West...!!

    How can we regain the image of Islam as a religion of Honesty,Knowledge and Prosperity for the Nation of Islam... It was one of the saddest things to see that Islam has no longer one major "Bait Maal Almuslimeen" "The Islamic Wealth Vault" which could have used such funds to encourage such developments to the nation rather than on hate or terror suicidal acts that Islam being abused by...!
    Asking GOD "Allah" for forgiveness for what has been said as a reminder to our nation and leaders... That we should not take the Shells for discussions and leave behind the True Heart of the Message relaid upon us to carry in the best of Image and acts.. Just remember that Pen could be a better weapon than Swords... With Pens we will spill Oceans of Inks but with Swords we will spill oceans of bloods..
    Peace to all,         

    September 8, 2011 at 4:01 pm |
    • Muneef

      The extremes are a heartache to those in the middle of the ideology of "Live and Let Live"... Because even those living as being the Isthmus between extremes...are considered by the extremes as traitors if not the enemy... May GOD "Allah"have mercy upon all those with Good intentions towards Humenity and Livings...Amen

      September 8, 2011 at 4:28 pm |
  11. Hypatia

    So what? We don't need to be everyone's BFF. They cannot manage to get a quorum together to condemn the killing of their own peoples globally.

    September 8, 2011 at 11:40 am |
  12. Carla

    Giving Muslims Bibles will be a true outreach.

    September 8, 2011 at 11:27 am |
    • William Demuth

      Let then use you as one of the 72 seems like a better idea!

      September 8, 2011 at 11:31 am |
    • @William

      You are jealous of Muslims because your society has no young virgin women.

      September 9, 2011 at 2:29 am |
    • tallulah13

      Isn't it cute how the Princess of Lies has discovered the "@"!

      September 9, 2011 at 2:32 am |
    • @Tallulah13

      Why do you stalk me? Are you one of them who fake me using my user names? You are evil because instead of being angry with those fakers, you keep saying mean things to me. Atheists' morality = none, a big zero. Realize that, Tall-, by looking at your own falsehood-loving at-ti-tude. You atheists are morally blind. Your problem is you never read on the real princess Pochahontas just like the rest of Americans. Disney cartoons have been your only pathetic teacher.

      September 9, 2011 at 3:10 am |
    • Seema

      Well what makes you think we don't have one, muslims are required by their faith to believe in all the authentic holy books and prophets from Adam onwards, maybe you need to read some authentic books , that would be true outreach

      September 9, 2011 at 9:32 am |
    • NoReligion

      Having them trade their system of arcane beliefs for another system of arcane beliefs will certainly solve the problem!

      Do you really think being brainwashed into believing that the make-believe christian god is better than the make-believe muslim god will change anything? Your religion is no better than theirs or anyone else's. Ridding the world of all religion is the only reasonable solution, but the mindless sheep who prescribe to such nonsense will never see it.

      September 9, 2011 at 10:53 am |
  13. Muneef

    Kyle x.
    Still you sleep in the bath tab...? Unnatural and really silly to think that people were dancing for the murder of other innocent people that were in the planes and the buildings that were targeted but rather those who had laughed or danced were at state of shock of disbelief while happy to seeing that the Pride of the Hulk or the "T-i-tanic" Tyrant been hurt...

    What they did not know is that this was not the story they were made to believe...but was rather a broke hulk was all rapped up in protocols and agreements that froze  their move and had to plan and allow the happening of some thing big that would allow it break the chains wrapped up with to do what it had done for the last decade....!?

    Who is laughing at who with such stories that you planed created for us more advance beforehand which were and are watched it the Hollywood Movies...other than all the prophecies beforehand...!! It was by such act as well the presidency and the party time was extended for four other additional years to mess-up with the that been messed up with since then.

    Twin Towers world trade centers....how much financial transactions take place there...? For who's interest to mixup the cards or burn down the records? What were the effects of that towards the world economy and trade...? Who's full benefit such act was for....? Was it at all for Muslims benefit!! How much Muslims have lost against the benefit of hurting a pride of a Tyrant...!? 


    September 8, 2011 at 10:26 am |
    • Muneef

      Just wonder whether Enron some how connected to it since that was within time frame...!!

      September 8, 2011 at 10:32 am |
  14. Reality

    There are some things that need to be repeated over and over and over again:

    “John Hick, a noted British philosopher of religion, estimates that 95 percent of the people of the world owe their religious affiliation to an accident of birth. The faith of the vast majority of believers depends upon where they were born and when. Those born in Saudi Arabia will almost certainly be Moslems, and those born and raised in India will for the most part be Hindus. Nevertheless, the religion of millions of people can sometimes change abruptly in the face of major political and social upheavals. In the middle of the sixth century ce, virtually all the people of the Near East and Northern Africa, including Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt were Christian. By the end of the following century, the people in these lands were largely Moslem, as a result of the militant spread of Islam.

    The Situation Today
    Barring military conquest, conversion to a faith other than that of one’s birth is rare. Some Jews, Moslems, and Hindus do convert to Christianity, but not often. Similarly, it is not common for Christians to become Moslems or Jews. Most people are satisfied that their own faith is the true one or at least good enough to satisfy their religious and emotional needs. Had St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas been born in Mecca at the start of the present century, the chances are that they would not have been Christians but loyal followers of the prophet Mohammed. “ J. Somerville

    It is very disturbing that religious narrow- mindedness, intolerance, violence and hatred continues unabated due to radomness of birth. Maybe just maybe if this fact would be published on the first page of every newspaper every day, that we would finally realize the significant stupidity of all religions.

    September 8, 2011 at 8:27 am |
    • RightTurnClyde

      Actually birth is no accident. Conception is a deliberate act. Birth follows. The universe and being are not an accident. Most accidents are not accidents (they have causes). Faith is not an accident after childhood. It's a choice...

      September 8, 2011 at 11:01 am |
    • RightTurnClyde

      Conversion is change. Witness the struggle to stop smoking (and yet so easy to start). Alcoholics Anonymous AFTER they decide to stop (often a cataclysmic reason or event). Change does not happen easily. Self improvement requires effort and effort must be motivated. People choose. If they want something .. really want it THEN they will make the effort. This is an age of fops and toys. (not much motivation)

      September 8, 2011 at 11:11 am |
    • RightTurnClyde

      In an age of fops and toys,
      Wanting wisdom, void of right,
      Who shall nerve heroic boys
      To hazard all in Freedom's fight, -
      Break sharply off their jolly games,
      Forsake their comrades gay,
      And quit proud homes and youthful dames,
      For famine, toil, and fray?
      Yet on the nimble air benign
      Speed nimbler messages,
      That waft the breath of grace divine
      To hearts in sloth and ease.
      So nigh is grandeur to our dust,
      So near is God to man,
      When Duty whispers low, Thou must,
      The youth replies, I can

      - Ralph Waldo Emerson

      September 8, 2011 at 11:13 am |
    • Reality

      "Facts on Contraceptive Use

      January 2008


      • 62 million U.S. women (and men?) are in their childbearing years (15–44).[1]

      • 43 million women (and men) of reproductive age, or 7 in 10, are se-xually active and do not want to become pregnant, but could become pregnant if they or their partners fail to use a con-traceptive method.[2]

      • The typical U.S. woman (man?) wants only 2 children. To achieve this goal, she (he?) must use cont-raceptives for roughly 3 decades.[3]


      • Virtually all women (98%) aged 15–44 who have ever had int-ercourse have used at least one con-traceptive method.[2](and men?)

      • Overall, 62% of the 62 million women aged 15–44 are currently using one.[2] (and men)

      • 31% of the 62 million women (and men?) do not need a method because they are infertile; are pregnant, postpartum or trying to become pregnant; have never had inte-rcourse; or are not se-xually active.[2]

      • Thus, only 7% of women aged 15–44 are at risk of unwanted pregnancy but are not using con-traceptives.[2] (and men?)

      • Among the 42 million fertile, s-exually active women who do not want to become pregnant, 89% are practicing con-traception.[2] (and men?)


      • 64% of reproductive-age women who practice con-traception use reversible methods, such as oral con-traceptives or condoms. The remaining women rely on female or male sterilization.[2]


      Percentage of women (men?) experiencing an unintended pregnancy (a few examples)


      Pill (combined) 8.7
      Tubal sterilization 0.7
      Male condom 17.4
      Vasectomy 0.2

      Periodic abstinence 25.3
      Calendar 9.0
      Ovulation Method 3.0
      Sympto-thermal 2.0
      Post-ovulation 1.0

      No method 85.0"

      (Abstinence) 0

      (Masturbation) 0

      More facts about contraceptives from



      Cont-raceptive method use among U.S. women who practice con-traception, 2002

      Method No. of users (in 000s) % of users
      Pill 11,661 30.6
      Male condom 6,841 18.0 "

      The pill fails to protect women 8.7% during the first year of use (from the same reference previously shown).

      i.e. 0.087 (failure rate)
      x 62 million (# child bearing women)
      x 0.62 ( % of these women using contraception )
      x 0.306 ( % of these using the pill) =

      1,020,000 unplanned pregnancies
      during the first year of pill use.

      For male condoms (failure rate of 17.4 and 18% use level)

      1,200,000 unplanned pregnancies during the first year of male condom use.

      The Gut-tmacher Inst-itute (same reference) notes also that the perfect use of the pill should result in a 0.3% failure rate
      (35,000 unplanned pregnancies) and for the male condom, a 2% failure rate (138,000 unplanned pregnancies).

      o Conclusion: The failures of the widely used birth "control" methods i.e. the pill and male condom have led to the large rate of abortions and S-TDs in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the pill or condoms properly and/or use other methods in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and S-TDs.

      September 8, 2011 at 11:56 am |
    • RightTurnClyde

      Could the point have been made without the boiler plate? Was the point that was made somehow enlightening? Or was it gratuitous?

      September 8, 2011 at 12:28 pm |
    • Reality

      It is very disturbing that religious narrow- mindedness, intolerance, violence and hatred continues unabated due to RADOMNESS of birth. Maybe just maybe if this fact would be published on the first page of every newspaper every day, that we would finally realize the significant stupidity of all religions.

      September 8, 2011 at 6:49 pm |
  15. Rainer Braendlein

    9/11 and the ordinary Muslims

    Fortunately many born Muslims are secular, that means they don't really practice Islam, but just struggle to survive or to generate some material wealth by any business or job.

    In Germany 60% of the Muslims are secular (according to a survey of the German Federal Minister of Interior from 2007, called "Muslime in Deutschland").

    However, 40% of the Muslims in Germany take seriously the Islam and even favour Holy War (that is outrageous). Thank God, they just have that atti-tude, but don't practice it. 6% of the Muslims in Germany are ready to fight with weapons immediately, right now, if a Holy War would be declared in Germany.

    Germany has got 4 Million Muslims. 40% out of 4 Mio makes 1.6 Mio. 6% out of 4 Mio makes 240,000 people.

    That means in Germany lives an Muslim army of 240,000 crypto-jihadists. That is without limit! 1.6 Millon Muslims would at least cheer the jihadist, if they would fight.

    Conclusion: Muslim leaders should not take us for fools! That is a crime. 9/11 was a feast day for many Muslims. That is very sad, but true.

    Note: I am not a Muslim-hater. On the contrary, I try to love them, obeying Christs command. I have just studied a little Islamic history and got shocked to what extent Islam is connected with aggressive war. Islam is a crime in itself.

    September 8, 2011 at 6:40 am |
    • William Demuth

      Herr Brandlein

      Did you know 8 percent of the German people would begin gassing Jews again if given the opportunity.

      For a man to say such nonesense is bad enough, but for that man to be German is terrifying.

      We should have nuked you lunatics back in 1938.

      September 8, 2011 at 8:01 am |
    • Peace2All

      @Big Willy D.

      Is it 8%...? I heard it was more closer to 10 %.

      Oh, well... Rainer... I guess statistics can cut both ways sometimes.



      September 8, 2011 at 10:55 am |
  16. Carla

    USA should not try to improve its image but just do what is right.

    September 8, 2011 at 5:10 am |
    • William Demuth

      Back to your Gulag wackoo.

      You need another batch of reeducation.

      I am calling the Dear Leader so he might be aware of your comments

      September 8, 2011 at 8:02 am |
    • Carla

      He is yours, William. Besides, I'm more Mongolian and Chinese and Jewish. I have more.

      September 8, 2011 at 11:25 am |
  17. RightTurnClyde

    Look Muslim violence did not begin with 9/11. Muslims have been hijack planes and dis sing people since the end of WWII. In fact they have been conducting violence again Europe and Russia since 650AD and even engaged Tamerlane and the Cossacks. Year after yaer we have witnessed: hijackings, truck bombs, Munich, Lockerbie, Kile Laurel, Marine barracks, child bombs, the Cole .. beheadings, massacres, mas graves ... it is more than 50 years and most of it televised.

    September 8, 2011 at 4:17 am |
  18. SpiderCNN

    Ofcourse US does not have credibility not only in the Islamic world but all over the world. We have not answered many legitimate questions about 911. We have not provided satisfactory answers to question such as: 1) What caused tons of steel used in WTC buildings to literary turn into dust 2) Why WTC 7, after all it was not hit by any planes 3) what did hit pentagon
    4) Why Cheney was commanding NORAD on 911 5) What did hit pentagon 6) Why did cheney ordered complete stand by as the object was approaching pentagon .... and many others ...

    September 8, 2011 at 2:12 am |
    • William Demuth

      See any black helicopters by your house?

      I bet they are afer you. I would go hide!

      September 8, 2011 at 8:03 am |
  19. Carla

    Muslims cannot be bribed like the pseudo-christians in the West. USA, stop worrying about your image all the time like an insecure woman does. Start cleaning up the blasphemies and immorality and halting infanticide in your land.

    September 8, 2011 at 12:54 am |
  20. Ajaz Fiazuddin

    I am always wary of articles that state in a few paragraphs the alleged opinion of gigantic groups of people – in this case the nearly 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. They do not share a voice anymore than alll Catholics, Jews, Hindus, etc. They are each individuals first....

    September 7, 2011 at 10:53 pm |
    • Kyle

      It's actually 1.2 billion. And they all follow a known violent belief system.

      Before you make the attempt to claim it's peaceful, remember you're talking to someone that's read the koran. It's got plenty of violence and hate in it. It's founder was a lover of war, and saw no problem killing people and forcing himself upon women. It teaches that women are nothing more than property that men are encouraged to beat.

      1.2 billion people can be wrong. Just because multiple people agree on a topic doesn't mean it's the truth. islam, like the myth of christianity which it stole from, is nothing but a fabrication. mohammed pretended to be a prophet for the sole purpose of personal gain, just like L. Ron Hubbard.

      Funny, but people of faith never stop to think about all the people that lived before the fabrications of their religions. What happens to them since they didn't obey the word of god or allah or whatever you wish to call your imaginary sky-hostess? The bible says that the only way into heaven is through christ. Obviously no one knew of this guy beforehand, so I guess they're screwed.

      Here's a little tidbit for you.

      islam teaches that jesus was a prophet. But muslims don't believe he was god. According to the bible, he was more than a prophet, he was the son of god, or god incarnate. So, why would a prophet lie? And why would muslims believe he was a prophet if he was lying about who he said he was?

      It's small contradictory beliefs like this that completely derail the entire koran and the religion. Yet people are still dumb enough to believe in it. 1.2 billion people. ALL WASTING THEIR TIME.

      September 7, 2011 at 11:06 pm |
    • Reality


      Well researched and well said!!! Bravo!!!

      September 7, 2011 at 11:18 pm |
    • fred

      Good summary on problems with Islam ! Only problem I have is some read the Old Testament and find the killing parts thinking this represents God. It does not and is very misunderstood. Jesus and the New Testament cleared that up.
      As to people being screwed that came before Christ that is not the case. Jesus does not hold you accountable for something you could not have known. Further, the Bible is a journey over many generations and at each level of competency the people were exposed to the revelation of God that could be understood at that development level. We went from Joe and the volcano to Jesus that specifically addressed the meta physical and self awareness

      September 7, 2011 at 11:33 pm |
    • Peace2All


      Hey -Fred...

      " Only problem I have is some read the Old Testament and find the killing parts thinking this represents God. It does not and is very misunderstood. Jesus and the New Testament cleared that up. "

      I sincerely question why God always gets a pass on the egregious acts committed by him in the OT...?

      And even if Jesus somehow did come and "cleared that up"... still doesn't excuse God's insane behavior IMHO.

      Also, I read a lot of debate about whether Jesus actually did come and "clear things up" with the Matthew 5:17-18.

      So, Help me out here...?



      September 8, 2011 at 12:27 am |
    • fred

      Matthew 5:17-18
      Jesus fulfilled the law in many respects. Basically the law of old revolved around keeping right with God though external cleansing for sin and sacrifice related to obedience and failure to obey God. Jesus fulfilled the law in that: no more external sacrificial system to cleanse a sinner (Jesus was the sacrifice for sin), throughout the OT (old testament) people were looking forward to the lamb of God who redeems them (Jesus is here), Keeping the law was an external show you worked at to prove your obedience to God (now in Christ you cannot earn or prove obedience that is works as Jesus already did it for you), one could never keep the law always failing and sinful (Jesus gives the Holy Spirit that guides one from within, you now have the power to live as Christ i.e. you no longer sin because of who you are in Christ). In short you already have a relationship with Christ (extends to the Father) thus you’re right with God and the way you live your life reflects that.
      This does that mean you ignore all the OT moral codes (with the exception of sacrificial system) it means you are living it out . It is internal from the heart.
      Note in OT few people walked with God (Abraham, Moses, Enoch, Noah, the prophets and a handful of others) and the rest had the law on their back. Now In Christ all believers can walk with God. This was the story of the Bible, God redeeming a people for himself.

      When I said Jesus cleared things up it was with regard to what appeared in the OT to be a God that killed. Jesus said turn the other cheek, let the wheat grow up with the tares so as not to accidently uproot anyone, Love your enemy etc. Jesus stepped it up a notch now that we have the Holy Spirit (things like murder now includes just thinking bad thoughts of another ). Note the progression towards a more “pure” being rather than some brute with a club.

      Now the killing of babies and the flood. Back up to 4,000-10,000 BC. Evil and wickedness “every inclination of the thoughts of man’s heart was evil all the time” How bad was it –“God grieved it was painful”. They were blotted out (perhaps erased so as never to have existed in the first place) and Noah was cared for because he walked with the Lord. The flood is a story of how God cares for those that are blameless not God the killing conan.

      September 8, 2011 at 2:22 am |
    • Reality

      The NT passage i.e. Matt 5:17-18, has been analyzed by many contemporary historical Jesus exegetes such as Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, and has been judged to be an embellishment by Matthew or by a translator i.e. a single attestation (only appears in Matthew's Gospel) and appears in the third Stratum (80-120CE).

      e.g. Professor Gerd Ludemann in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 138.

      September 8, 2011 at 7:54 am |
    • Reality

      origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times

      New Torah For Modern Minds

      “Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

      Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.

      The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.

      The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."

      September 8, 2011 at 7:56 am |
    • Peace2All


      Thanks for your weighing in with your opinion.


      Thanks for the extra info.


      September 8, 2011 at 11:27 am |
    • fred

      Cut me some slack, if the Old Testament is wrong and the New Testament never happened I can only believe based on faith alone. You really dont want that I could end up with the likes of Jim Jones or in Waco Texas. How about you go over the data again and give us something to hang onto.
      If you succeed in destroying Christianty then the void will not be filled by enlightened atheists but driven hard line Muslims. Get your satanic verses ready for the new American dream

      September 8, 2011 at 2:14 pm |
    • Getting Real

      fred: "You really dont want that I could end up with the likes of Jim Jones or in Waco Texas."

      Are you really *that* desperate and disturbed that you see this as an option?

      How about accepting reality for what it is? I'll bet that you don't think that "God" transforms the eggs in your pan from raw to cooked, or that "God" causes water to come out of your shower each day.

      Fantasy is a pleasant distraction, and sometimes daydreaming even produces ideas which bring solid results, but to live there in that fantasy world, with no evidence of any glimmer of reality to it, just doesn't work.

      Discovering the way stuff really works is as awe-inspiring as any fantasy.

      September 8, 2011 at 3:10 pm |
    • fred

      Getting Real
      Oh, interesting you struck a chord "living in that fantasy world just doesn't work"
      I stumbled on this site for some solid answers to biblical questions just to get hit with the atheist buzz saw. Then the fantasy seeker thought oh, what a fertile field for me to do something of value for the Kingdom of God. Atheists seemed to have a better grip on the bible than I did so I had nothing to offer on that count.
      As to Jim Jones I was referring to if one does not have a true Bible as a point of reference any promise of God could be a lure. On the other hand should I find the Bible to be wrong what then? I never could swallow nothingness and our existence has no meaning if our being (soul or self awareness) is heading nowhere.
      You are very correct discovery is awe-inspiring. Over the last several years I was busy discovering the promise of God and Jesus. I will continue to do that but you are correct I have neglected my office........so back to work and thanks !

      September 8, 2011 at 5:24 pm |
    • Reality


      Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies, and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

      Then, apply the Five F rule: "First Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations". And finally there will be religious peace and religious awareness in the world!!!!!

      September 8, 2011 at 6:54 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.