home
RSS
Priest offers spiritual survival guide for recession
A priest and author says religious leaders aren't paying attention to older people hit by recession.
September 17th, 2011
10:00 PM ET

Priest offers spiritual survival guide for recession

By John Blake, CNN

(CNN) - Sooner or later, it happens to each of us, Richard Rohr says.

“There always will be at least one situation in our lives that we cannot fix, control, explain, change or even understand,” the Franciscan priest said.

Maybe you’ve been laid off from a job you held for years. Perhaps you’ve experienced a nasty divorce. Or maybe the crisis is more subtle: You suddenly realized that you’ll never have the life you dreamed of living.

Any life-changing moment can knock a person down. But it can also open doors if, as Rohr puts it, a person learns how to “fall upward.”

Rohr, a 68-year-old Roman Catholic author and internationally known speaker, says older Americans face a problem: Religious leaders aren’t paying much attention to them.

Much of contemporary religion is geared toward teaching people how to navigate the first half of their lives, when they’re building careers and families. Rohr calls it a “goal-oriented” spirituality.

Yet there’s less help for people dealing with the challenges of aging: the loss of health, the death of friends, and coming to terms with mistakes that cannot be undone, he says.

Rohr’s new book, “Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life,” is his attempt to fill that void. It also functions as a spiritual survival guide for hard times as millions of Americans young and old struggle to cope with “falling”: losing their homes, careers and status.

Rohr says he coined the phrase “falling upward” to describe a paradox. Nearly everyone will fall in life because they'll confront some type of loss, he says. Yet failure can lead to growth if a person makes the right decisions.

“I’ve met people who because of the loss of things and security have been able to find grace, freedom and new horizons,” he said.

If you’re falling in any area of your life, Rohr says, one of the first skills to learn is accepting surprises.

He says it’s easy for people to turn bitter when things don’t go as planned. He sees such people all the time, whether throwing tantrums at the airport because of long lines or flocking to angry rallies in opposition to some form of social change.

“You start attacking anybody else who is not like you,” Rohr said. “If you don’t know how to deal with exceptions, surprise and spontaneity by the time you’re my age, you become a predictable series of responses of paranoia, blame and defensiveness.”

Why suffering is necessary

Rohr’s book may address contemporary issues, but the wisdom is old. He extracts insights from sources as varied as Greek mythology, Catholic mysticism and fairy tales like Cinderella.

Such stories often teach similar lessons about hard times: Suffering is necessary, the “false self” must be abandoned, and “everything belongs, even the sad, absurd and futile parts.” Rohr, who has also written “Quest for the Grail,” a book on mythology, says people have learned these hard lessons for centuries through myth.

The heroes in mythological stories follow the same pattern. They must first experience humiliation, loss and suffering before finding enlightenment. They are often forced on their journey by a crisis.

No contemporary American is going to be asked to fight a monster, but an event like the evaporation of a retirement fund or the death of a spouse can force you to summon strength you didn’t know you had, Rohr says.

The key is not resisting the crisis.

“You have to allow the circumstances of God and life to break you out of your egocentric responses to everything,” he said. “If you allow ‘the other’ - other people, other events, other religions - to influence you, you just keep growing.”

That growth, though, is accompanied by death - the death of the “false self,” Rohr said. The false self is the part of your self tied to your achievements and possessions.

When your false self dies, you start learning how to base your happiness on more eternal sources, he says.

“You start drawing from your life within,” Rohr said. “You learn to distinguish from the essential self and the self that’s window dressing.”

Those who break through the crisis and lose their false selves become different people: less judgmental, more generous and better able to ignore “evil or stupid things,” he says.

It may sound esoteric, Rohr says, but many of us have met older people like this. They possess a “bright sadness”: they’ve suffered but they still smile and give.

“I’ve seen that in the wonderful older people in my life,” Rohr says. “There’s a kind of gravitas they have. … There’s an easy smile on their faces. These are the people who laugh, who heal, who build bridges, who don’t turn bitter.”

Rohr says this bright sadness isn’t confined to older people.

“I've met 11-year-old children in cancer wards who are in the second half of life,” he said in a recent interview with Amazon.com, “and I have met 68-year-old men like me who are still in the first half of life.”

Learning the ‘grace of failure’

Rohr’s book has found some fans in high places who were touched by his insights.

Father Gerry Blaszczak, a chaplain at Fairfield University in Connecticut, says Rohr’s book challenges the notion that success is a natural result of being religious.

“Our culture is prone to imagine that growth takes place in a sort of constant, upward movement,” he says. “Even our religious culture tends to focus on success and stability as ideals for religious growth.”

Rohr’s book reminds people about the “grace of failure,” Blaszczak says.

“In the Christian tradition, loss, collapse and failure have always been seen as not only unavoidable, but even necessary on the path to wisdom, freedom and personal maturity,” Blaszczak said.

He says he knows older people who struggled to rebuild their identities after they poured much of their earlier lives’ energies into professional and personal success.

“It is not that these professional or personal ideas were necessarily bad in themselves,” he said. “It is more that they proved inadequate. We invested way too much in them. We thought our identities could be formed by them.”

Jim Finley, a retreat leader and Catholic scholar, says Rohr is reminding people about the value of elders.

“Our culture tends to be youth-oriented, and a lot of spirituality is youth oriented,” says Finley, author “The Contemplative Heart.” “But our elders are the embodiment of the wisdom that life matters at a much deeper level than what we can achieve and produce.”

Brian McLaren, author of “The Naked Spirituality,” says Rohr’s book touches on an important paradox that you probably won’t hear in a Sunday morning sermon: “Imperfect people” are sometimes more equipped than “perfect people” to help those who are struggling.

“The person who never makes a mistake and always manages to obey the rules is often a compassionless person, because he sees people for whom the wheels have fallen off and he wonders what’s wrong with them,” he said. “But the person who feels that he has ruined his life often has more capacity for humility and compassion.”

McLaren says Rohr’s book helped reveal to him how much of his youthful spiritual energy was driven by narrow concerns.

“I’m embarrassed as I’m getting older about how much of my energy and vitality as a younger man was driven by ego and a win-lose mentality.”

Today Rohr seems driven by something else: The need for rest.

For years, his life has been a whirlwind. He’s traveled the globe speaking at retreats on everything from men’s spirituality to Catholic mysticism.

He also founded the Center for Action and Contemplation in Albuquerque, New Mexico, an organization that encourages acts of justice rooted in prayer and respect for other religious traditions.

Yet after almost seven decades of living, Rohr said,  “I am still a mystery to myself.”

Rohr plans on solving some of that mystery. He says he’s going to retire in two years to spend more time at his home in New Mexico. He says he needs more time for contemplation.

“The first half of life, you write the text,” he said. “The second half of your life is when you write the commentary. You have to process what it all meant.”

As Rohr withdraws from speaking and writing, he will be challenged to follow his own advice. He’ll spend less energy on his “false self” as his old identity dissolves.

He says he’s ready, though, to fall upward. If he lost his position as a priest, author and respected speaker, he says he would still feel secure.

“Most of us don’t learn this until it is taken away, like losing the security of your 401(k). Then the learning either starts or you circle the wagons,” he said. “I know who I am beyond my roles.”

- CNN Writer

Filed under: Belief • Books • Catholic Church • Christianity • Church • Economy

soundoff (1,015 Responses)
  1. snow

    Well friends.. No job? no way to feed your family? no worries.. just leave them.. you dont want to be burdened by them when you seek god.. and here, take this book.. and keep reading.. the state and other hardworking people (Pfft..) will take care of feeding you. That is the right way!

    September 20, 2011 at 8:46 pm |
    • Carl Gomez

      Take another look. Rohr has published dozens of books and been tollerated by the Catholic church (do the research oh Loud One). You won't find a more non-Christian Christian dude. His approach is both refreshing and timely and when you meet him in person, you'll realize what a xhlup you are.

      September 23, 2011 at 8:39 pm |
    • Jennifer

      I agree with Carl. Rohr is a voice worth listening to and Snow, I think your comments misrepresent what Rohr is really saying. He is more about redefining the way you understand the world you live in - so you can live in it in a better way - than retreating from it to hide...hence the Center for Action AND Contemplation...

      September 23, 2011 at 10:26 pm |
    • Doreen

      Before you criticize Rohr's books you have to read them. Richard Rohr is extremely insightful yet sometimes difficult to follow if you are not at that point in your spiritual journey. If the Lord is calling you to the next level of spirituality than what he writes will make more sense to you. Rohr challenges me to go to the next step spiritually. Your comments are based on a misinterpretation of what he actually says in his book. Rohr's saying that often in the face of adversity we can grow spiritually if we are open to it. Have you never had an good come as a result of adversity. ie. Death of a loved one brings a family closer together, loss of a job helps you to find a direction in your life that you would not have pursued if you still were in that job. These are just two of numerous examples. If you want to deepen your faith and grow spiritually then read the book. If you are not ready or not at that point in your life then you may not understand what he is saying. But perhaps the Lord will touch you and bring you clarity if you do. God Bless!

      September 24, 2011 at 2:38 pm |
    • KMS

      "quid quid recepitur secundum naturam recepientis! " Latin from Thomas Aquinas
      = “Whatever is received is received in the manner of the vessel receiving it” w/ English tranlation
      What is expressed in an indication of the commentor more than anything else. We all need to realize the each of us has a tremendous "FILTER"
      For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

      September 25, 2011 at 1:38 pm |
  2. AGuest9

    @Peter – There is no such thing as "creation". Scientists spent BILLIONS to WHAT? You can't CREATE matter (You learned that from watching "Angels and Demons", did you?), and there is no "God Particle". Say it with me – Higgs Boson. Your god has NOTHING to do with it! There has been no report as of yet, because there are still many energy levels that haven't been explored because CERN won't be up to its full capacity until next spring. No one has "fessed up" (Were you even educated beyond the sixth grade?) because there is nothing to report until ATLAS and the other experiments aren't even turned up fully.

    "Oh, that's right we came from apes didn't we." No, again, your schooling failed you, if you were indeed listening in school, and that's the incorrect information you were given. If not, you need to get your educational system to "fess up" to you, because you didn't receive much of an education, apparently.

    "Slowly over millions of years we stood up straight, lost our hair and started inventing things." Oh, so you DID hear about it somewhere.

    "That explains why some decided to remain apes and some decided to become humans." Oops, your educational failings are showing again. Let's go back to seventh grade biology. Apes and man descended from a common ancestor, which is why we share over 90% of the same DNA. There are no "remaining apes", because there weren't any apes, then, just as there weren't any ho.mo sapiens at that point. (When you're finished giggling because I wrote "ho.mo", you may continue reading.)

    "More evidence of God in this world than not." No, actually, there is no evidence of a god, or any type of creator.
    "I suggest you do a little research." I've done more research in the last 20 years than you will ever do in several lifetimes, judging from your diction and grammar.

    "It's called the in-ter-net." Actually, it's called the "Internet". I worked on Al Gore's team to build the NSFNET backbone in the late 1980s, to EVOLVE it from the ARPANET. I know what it is.

    Maybe you're right, evolution isn't perfect, because you're still a knuckle-dragging Neanderthal. I'm amazed you can use a computer, or the " in-ter-net" at all.

    September 19, 2011 at 10:39 pm |
    • gerald

      So what is the next creature up the evolutionary cycle to evolve from humans? Why hasn't it happened yet?

      September 21, 2011 at 11:56 am |
    • @AGuest9 from willy

      You are certainly full of yourself!

      September 24, 2011 at 1:47 pm |
    • tom

      Youre right, human beings cannot create matter. So where did it come from?

      September 28, 2011 at 11:27 am |
  3. Just Sayin

    Snyde, t r y t y p i n g l e g i b l y a n d I m i g h t r e a d y o u r p o s t.

    J u s t s ay i n . . .

    September 19, 2011 at 7:10 pm |
    • RightTurnClyde

      CNN has an bot and if you use some combinations of letters it trashes your post. But only CNN knows which letters. Got it?

      September 19, 2011 at 11:22 pm |
    • Helpful Hints

      RightTurnClyde:

      Here's the word list again:

      Bad letter combinations / words to avoid if you want to get past the CNN automatic filter:
      Many, if not most, are buried within other words, so use your imagination.
      You can use dashes, spaces, or other characters to modify the "offending" letter combinations.
      ---
      ar-se.....as in ar-senic.
      co-ck.....as in co-ckatiel, co-ckatrice, co-ckleshell, co-ckles, etc.
      co-on.....as in rac-oon, coc-oon, etc.
      cu-m......as in doc-ument, accu-mulate, circu-mnavigate, circu-mstances, cu-mbersome, cuc-umber, etc.
      cu-nt.....as in Scu-ntthorpe, a city in the UK famous for having problems with filters...!
      ef-fing...as in ef-fing filter
      ft-w......as in soft-ware, delft-ware, swift-water, etc.
      ho-mo.....as in ho-mo sapiens or ho-mose-xual, ho-mogenous, etc.
      ho-rny....as in tho-rny, etc.
      jacka-ss...yet "ass" is allowed by itself.....
      ja-p......as in j-apanese, ja-pan, j-ape, etc.
      koo-ch....as in koo-chie koo..!
      nip-ple
      pi-s......as in pi-stol, lapi-s, pi-ssed, therapi-st, etc.
      p-orn… as in p-ornography
      pr-ick....as in pri-ckling, pri-ckles, etc.
      ra-pe.....as in scra-pe, tra-peze, gr-ape, thera-peutic, sara-pe, etc.
      se-x......as in Ess-ex, s-exual, etc.
      sh-@t.....but shat is okay – don't use the @ symbol there.
      sl-ut
      sn-atch
      sp-ic.....as in disp-icable, hosp-ice, consp-icuous, susp-icious, sp-icule, sp-ice, etc.
      ti-t......as in const-itution, att-itude, ent-ities, alt-itude, beat-itude, etc.
      tw-at.....as in wristw-atch, nightw-atchman, etc.
      va-g......as in extrava-gant, va-gina, va-grant, va-gue, sava-ge, etc.
      who-re....as in who're you kidding / don't forget to put in that apostrophe!
      wt-f....also!!!!!!!

      There are more, some of them considered "racist", so do not assume that this list is complete.

      September 19, 2011 at 11:37 pm |
    • Just Sayin

      Snyde, some of us are smart enough to understand that and still write legible posts. As for yourself, don't try to ti-tillate within your docu-ments and maybe you'll get a post in now and then.

      Just sayin...

      September 20, 2011 at 10:48 am |
  4. RightTurnClyde

    This is a very good idea .. I am over 70 (which makes aging a very important topic) and I have lost a number of friends this years. Too bad we have to get old .. Well at least we do not get a whole lot uglier than we were when we were 40.

    September 19, 2011 at 6:47 pm |
  5. AGuest9

    Ironically, the faithful aren't supposed to take part in numerology or astrology, but the bible is based upon both.

    September 19, 2011 at 5:39 pm |
    • Peter

      Is not!

      September 19, 2011 at 5:41 pm |
    • AGuest9

      3, 6, 7, 12, 40 ring any bells? They should. They repeat frequently in both testaments.

      September 19, 2011 at 5:55 pm |
    • RightTurnClyde

      Most of you who take pot shots at the bible have not read it. You can cite some paragraphs (if you are literate enough to understand what you read), but seldom reflect any understand of what you have read. So all of that surmise is either something you read in somebody else's opinions or the one or two paragraphs you may have read. Just my observation.

      September 19, 2011 at 6:52 pm |
    • Peter

      @just sayin...how about creation bullethead. Your scientists just spent millions and millions of $$ to create "the God Particle" and blew it...ended up fessing up by saying "well, maybe it doesn't exist. Life is a miracle. Oh, that's right we came from apes didn't we. Slowly over millions of years we stood up straight, lost our hair and started inventing things...Yup, Yup. That explains why some decided to remain apes and some decided to become humans. More evidence of God in this world than not. I suggest you do a little research...it's called the in-ter-net. See how many things you can find that are unexplainable or miracle like. Not my job to spend my time researching for you. I am not the doubting Thomas here (that's Biblical by the way), you are. As they say, cough up or...

      September 19, 2011 at 7:40 pm |
    • AGuest9

      Well, Clyde, I've read the bible, the Torah, the Qur'an – It's mostly a bunch of recycled nonsense. To get what I did, you need to read no further than the Pentateuch and the four evangelists' gospels. Reading deeper into it, other patterns of numbers, but mostly those chiefly rise out of of the text, repeatedly. I studied the bible for 11 years in school, and read it more extensively as an adult.

      September 19, 2011 at 10:14 pm |
    • RightTurnClyde

      Well I can see that you think you know everything ... so you must be young. (very young). But all well and good... go with what you think you know and .. Godspeed (so to speak)

      September 19, 2011 at 11:20 pm |
    • Just Sayin

      @Peter, no, the burden of proof is on your weak back. You are the one claiming an old man in the sky. State the characteristics of your supposed creator and how the purported evidence might support it, in detail, and we'll take a look. Details and links, son. Do your homework.

      But don't go all Higgs bosonic on us. You are way way way beyond your safe bathtub depth there and you might find yourself in a condensate without an integer spin.

      Just sayin...

      September 20, 2011 at 11:56 am |
    • Ben

      @Peter, a godfairy believer admonishing someone to do research using the man-made internet is a bit ironic, don't you think?

      September 20, 2011 at 1:58 pm |
  6. Richard S Kaiser

    Mat 6:33 "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you."

    Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."

    1Cr 3:9 “For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.”

    1Cr 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

    Luk 17:21 "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is inside/within you."

    1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

    1Cr 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are

    1Cr 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

    September 19, 2011 at 5:26 pm |
    • Just Sayin

      He's coming. He's coming. No really. Just wait. And don't have a life in the mean time.

      You'd think big god would maybe show his face and do a shiny miracle or six better than once every 2 millenia so we'd know he was still out there and to kind of refresh the stale scent. Guess not.

      Just sayin...

      September 19, 2011 at 5:36 pm |
    • Peter

      He is coming. Miracles happen every day. You just don't have your eyes open, or you call the coincidences??? It's is not og God to wipe our noses for us, just as catastrophe is not His doing. There's a thing, a gift, and it's called FREE WILL. We all have been given the gift, and that's what allows us to make our own decisions and that's what keeps God from intervening unless he is asked. More dribble...

      September 19, 2011 at 5:40 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      @ Just Sayin

      The beam in your eyes have made their way to your shoulders. Come closer to me J.S. so I can clean you up a bit and rid your shoulders of the beams,,,,,,,,,,,Am I sarcastic? You tell me,,,,,,,,,,,,

      September 19, 2011 at 5:58 pm |
    • Just Sayin

      Wipe yer nose, Peter. There's a big new keyword for you to know: "evidence":

      Pick a "miracle", put up the evidence, or you know what to do.

      Coincidence does not prove causality.

      Just sayin...

      September 19, 2011 at 6:26 pm |
    • Just Sayin

      Richard, that froth around your mouth -you've missed your vaccination.

      Just sayin...

      September 19, 2011 at 6:28 pm |
    • RightTurnClyde

      @just sayin S i n c e .y o u're .t a l k i n g .a b o u t .e v i d e n c e .w h y .d o n ' t .y o u .d e s c r i b e .w h a t .t h e .r u l e s .o f .e v i d e n c e .a r e ? . .W h a t .i s .a d m i s s i b l e ? . .W h a t .i s .n o t .a d m i s s i b l e ? . .H o w .a r e .j u r i e s .t o l d .t o .c o n s i d e r .t h i n g s .t h a t .a r e .a d m i t t e d ? . .I s .t h e r e .a n y .d i f f e r e n c e .t o .o r a l .e v i d e n c e .t h a n .t o .o b j e c t s ? . .A r e .t h e r e .s o m e .t h i n g s .t h a t .d o .n o t .n e e d .t o .b e .p r o v e d .b y .e v i d e n c e ? . .( a r e .t h e r e ? ? ) . .W h a t .a b o u t .d o c u m e n t .e v i d e n c e .( h o w .i s .i s .v e r i f i e d ? ) W h a t .a r e .t h e .r u l e s ? . .W h a t .a b o u t .h a n d .w r i t i n g ? . .H o w .a b o u t .e y e .w i t n e s s .e v i d e n c e ? . .W h e n .i s .i t .a d m i s s i b l e ? . .W h y ? . .W h y .n o t ? . .W h a t .e v i d e n c e .p r o b l e m s .a r o s e .i n .t h e .n o t o r i o u s .O J .S i m p s o n .t r i a l ? . .W h a t .e v i d e n c e .p r o b l e m s .i n .C a s e y .A n t h o n y ? . .I s .t h e r e .a n y .d i f f e r e n c e .b e t w e e n .t r i a l .e v i d e n c e .a n d .F D A .l a b .e v i d e n c e ? . . .H o w .d o e s .o n e .d e c i d e .i f .t h e .b i r d .f l u .m u t a t e d ? . W h y .d i d .a .n o b e l .p r i z e .p h y s i c i s t .w a l k .o u t .o f .a .g l o b a l .w a r m i n g .m e e t i n g ?

      September 19, 2011 at 7:06 pm |
    • Just Sayin

      Snyde, t r y t y p i n g l e g i b l y a n d I m i g h t r e a d y o u r p o s t .

      J u s t s a y i n . . .

      September 19, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
    • Magic

      Clyde,

      What would be sufficient evidence? Ever hear the saying, "Only God knows"...?

      Well, IF "God" exists, he knows what sufficient evidence would be for each and every one of us.

      "He" either:
      1) Can't provide it.
      -or-
      2) Won't provide it.
      -or-
      3) Doesn't exist.

      IF "He" exists, I think that he would reward me for using my brain and for not being a gullible sap and believing unproven things.

      September 19, 2011 at 7:26 pm |
    • RightTurnClyde

      CNN bot thought the message I posted was naughty when it was not spaced like it it. So you guys could not figure that out? Did you think I made a mistake? I can also see that you do not understand evidence (even though you talk about it). And you most like do not read the bible (since you do not like it). I suspect your life experience is kind of light weight too. So actually I am not sure you have the guts to be Christian. It is not always easy. Better the way you are. There are already plenty of Christians. More born every day.

      September 19, 2011 at 11:14 pm |
    • Pssst

      RightTurnClyde,

      It was the word, doc.ument that tripped up your post.

      September 19, 2011 at 11:19 pm |
    • Hasa Diga Eebowai

      Miracle = statistical outlier

      September 20, 2011 at 12:22 pm |
  7. Reality

    Survival guide for all Christians, young and old:

    Jesus was a bit "touched". After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today's world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.

    Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Most contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J's gospels being mostly fiction.

    Obviously, today's followers of Paul et al's "magic-man" are also a bit on the odd side believing in all the Christian mumbo jumbo about bodies resurrecting, and exorcisms, and miracles, and "magic-man atonement, and infallible, old, European, white men, and 24/7 body/blood sacrifices followed by consumption of said sacrifices. Yummy!!!!

    So why do we really care what a first century CE, illiterate, long-dead, preacher man would do or say?

    September 19, 2011 at 4:33 pm |
    • FreeAtLast

      Jesus's thoughts are not privy to you or anyone else, MEN wrote of him, not he of himself. If you have a book written by Jesus himself and can prove it, then I would be VERY interested in reading it. Alas you assume much as most "COMMON" thinkers do.

      September 19, 2011 at 4:39 pm |
    • Peter

      What absolute dribble! "Most NT experts..." I'm calling BS on that one. Amazing how people make stuff up to try and prove why they think the way they do. There is nothing in what you have written that isn't manure.

      September 19, 2011 at 5:25 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      I Peter do agree. "Reality" reposts his archaic dribble from time to time. He is but a self-parroting prevert. I too do parrot my "dribble only after Reality parrots away! 🙂

      September 19, 2011 at 5:31 pm |
    • .........

      spam alert hit re[port abuse on all reality posts

      September 19, 2011 at 7:49 pm |
    • Reality

      Saving Christians from the Infamous Resurrection Con/Disease:

      From that famous passage: In 1 Corinthians 15 St. Paul reasoned, "If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith."

      Even now Catholic/Christian professors of theology are questioning the bodily resurrection of the simple, preacher man aka Jesus.

      To wit;

      From a major Catholic university's theology professor’s grad school white-board notes:

      "Heaven is a Spirit state or spiritual reality of union with God in love, without earthly – earth bound distractions.
      Jesus and Mary's bodies are therefore not in Heaven.

      Most believe that it to mean that the personal spiritual self that survives death is in continuity with the self we were while living on earth as an embodied person.

      Again, the physical Resurrection (meaning a resuscitated corpse returning to life), Ascension (of Jesus' crucified corpse), and Assumption (Mary's corpse) into heaven did not take place.

      The Ascension symbolizes the end of Jesus' earthly ministry and the beginning of the Church.

      Only Luke's Gospel records it. The Assumption ties Jesus' mission to Pentecost and missionary activity of Jesus' followers The Assumption has multiple layers of symbolism, some are related to Mary's special role as "Christ bearer" (theotokos). It does not seem fitting that Mary, the body of Jesus' Virgin-Mother (another biblically based symbol found in Luke 1) would be derived by worms upon her death. Mary's assumption also shows God's positive regard, not only for Christ's male body, but also for female bodies." "

      "In three controversial Wednesday Audiences, Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist. In this he is applying the philosophical categories used by the Church in her theology and saying what St. Thomas Aquinas said long before him."
      http://eternal-word.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM

      The Vatican quickly embellished this story with a lot CYAP.

      Of course, we all know that angels are really mythical "pretty wingie talking thingies".

      With respect to rising from the dead, we also have this account:

      An added note: As per R.B. Stewart in his introduction to the recent book, The Resurrection of Jesus, Crossan and Wright in Dialogue,

      p.4

      "Reimarus (1774-1778) posits that Jesus became sidetracked by embracing a political position, sought to force God's hand and that he died alone deserted by his disciples. What began as a call for repentance ended up as a misguided attempt to usher in the earthly political kingdom of God. After Jesus' failure and death, his disciples stole his body and declared his resurrection in order to maintain their financial security and ensure themselves some standing."

      p.168. by Ted Peters:

      Even so, asking historical questions is our responsibility. Did Jesus really rise from the tomb? Is it necessary to have been raised from the tomb and to appear to his disciples in order to explain the rise of early church and the transcription of the bible? Crossan answers no, Wright answers, yes. "

      So where are the bones"? As per Professor Crossan's analyses in his many books, the body of Jesus would have ended up in the mass graves of the crucified, eaten by wild dogs, covered with lime in a shallow grave, or under a pile of stones.

      September 19, 2011 at 11:54 pm |
    • Reality

      Then there is the Infamous Angelic Con:

      Joe Smith had his Moroni.

      Jehovah Witnesses have their Jesus /Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God;

      Mohammed had his Gabriel (this "tin-kerbell" got around).

      Jesus and his family had Michael, Gabriel, and Satan, the latter being a modern day dem-on of the de-mented.

      The Abraham-Moses myths had their Angel of Death and other "no-namers" to do their dirty work or other assorted duties.
      Contemporary biblical and religious scholars have relegated these "pretty wingie thingies" to the myth pile. We should do the same to include deleting all references to them in our religious operating manuals. Doing this will eliminate the prophet/profit/prophecy status of these founders and put them where they belong as simple humans just like the rest of us.
      Some added references to "tink-erbells".

      "Latter-day Saints also believe that Michael the Archangel was Adam (the first man) when he was mortal, and Gabriel lived on the earth as Noah."

      Apparently hallu-cinations did not stop with Joe Smith.

      newadvent.org/cathen/07049c.htm

      "The belief in guardian angels can be traced throughout all antiquity; pagans, like Menander and Plutarch (cf. Euseb., "Praep. Evang.", xii), and Neo-Platonists, like Plotinus, held it. It was also the belief of the Babylonians and As-syrians, as their monuments testify, for a figure of a guardian angel now in the British Museum once decorated an As-syrian palace, and might well serve for a modern representation; while Nabopolassar, father of Nebuchadnezzar the Great, says: "He (Marduk) sent a tutelary deity (cherub) of grace to go at my side; in everything that I did, he made my work to succeed."

      Catholic monks and Dark Age theologians also did their share of hallu-cinating:

      "TUBUAS-A member of the group of angels who were removed from the ranks of officially recognized celestial hierarchy in 745 by a council in Rome under Pope Zachary. He was joined by Uriel, Adimus, Sabaoth, Simiel, and Raguel."
      And tin-ker- bells go way, way back:

      "In Zoroastrianism there are different angel like creatures. For example each person has a guardian angel called Fravashi. They patronize human being and other creatures and also manifest god’s energy. Also, the Amesha Spentas have often been regarded as angels, but they don't convey messages, but are rather emanations of Ahura Mazda ("Wise Lord", God); they appear in an abstract fashion in the religious thought of Zarathustra and then later (during the Achaemenid period of Zoroastrianism) became personalized, associated with an aspect of the divine creation (fire, plants, water...)."
      "The beginnings of the biblical belief in angels must be sought in very early folklore. The gods of the Hitti-tes and Canaanites had their supernatural messengers, and parallels to the Old Testament stories of angels are found in Near Eastern literature. "

      "The 'Magic Papyri' contain many spells to secure just such help and protection of angels. From magic traditions arose the concept of the guardian angel. "

      September 19, 2011 at 11:55 pm |
    • .........

      Garbage alert do not read hit report abuse to all reality posts

      September 20, 2011 at 8:15 pm |
  8. FreeAtLast

    “In the Christian tradition, loss, collapse and failure have always been seen as not only unavoidable, but even necessary on the path to wisdom, freedom and personal maturity,” This is ESOTERIC thinking at its best and not the COMMON teaching to be a victim like Jesus as most churches who teach EXOTERIC Christianity to the COMMON man. It takes a VERY wise clergyman to practice and teach it. Its time the Christians learned how to be more like Jesus the teacher ...and NOT Jesus the victim, as he was NOT a victim ...especially in death. He knew who he was ...do you?

    September 19, 2011 at 4:06 pm |
  9. areyouserious

    let me clarify, why do people Idolize celebrities, the pope, JFK, FDR, Lincoln, etc, etc.....???????

    September 19, 2011 at 2:42 pm |
    • FreeAtLast

      people idolize for many reasons, but none of them useful. In the end they are always let down because they have climbed a one-legged chair.

      September 19, 2011 at 4:11 pm |
    • nostra

      "...climbed a one-legged chair"
      Cool. I'd like to see that. 😉

      September 19, 2011 at 4:59 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      "one-legged chair",,,,,,,, whose brother is the unicycle, the unitarian of it all,,,,,,,,,,, 🙂

      September 19, 2011 at 5:35 pm |
  10. areyouserious

    Alfonzo Muchanzo? do you believe that any man on earth should be idolized?

    September 19, 2011 at 2:40 pm |
  11. Alfonzo Muchanzo

    http://www.youtube.com/user/biologosfoundation?blend=10&ob=5#p/a/u/2/eaktAy-TyOU

    September 19, 2011 at 2:14 pm |
    • areyouserious

      god bless you!!! considering you have a Hispanic name and i could easily say your a Catholic. which is and has been a plague on humanity.

      September 19, 2011 at 2:18 pm |
    • areyouserious

      umm, any love more me?

      September 19, 2011 at 2:19 pm |
    • geraldh

      Catholicism is a blight on society? Catholicism is the fullness of truth.

      September 19, 2011 at 2:23 pm |
    • geraldh

      By the way Catholicism does not teach that all non-catholics including muslems go to hell.

      September 19, 2011 at 2:27 pm |
    • Alfonzo Muchanzo

      @areyouserious – Actually I'm caucasian. Good guess though.

      September 19, 2011 at 2:31 pm |
    • Alfonzo Muchanzo

      And Protestand, not Catholic. 0-2 🙂

      September 19, 2011 at 2:33 pm |
    • Alfonzo Muchanzo

      And Protestant, not Catholic. 0-2 🙂

      September 19, 2011 at 2:34 pm |
    • areyouserious

      Alfonzo Muchanzo, really funny???? i have french, irish, spanish, blackfoot and german. although i look white, i am stereotyped too...... really funny??? dont you think

      September 19, 2011 at 2:36 pm |
    • AGuest9

      Did you just discover YouTube, and that's why you keep posting this nonsense?

      September 19, 2011 at 5:34 pm |
  12. areyouserious

    can some christian show me in the king james bible were gays are against gods will? or that if i believe in another religion like muslim that i am forsaken and will burn in all eternally?

    September 19, 2011 at 2:13 pm |
    • Peter

      gotta run, but try looking up anything to do with Sodom for starters...

      September 19, 2011 at 2:17 pm |
    • areyouserious

      Peter, i went to Sunday bible school and was raised as a christian, then a Jehovah witness. I know full will the wrath of GOD, when it pertains to the christian bible. As i have grown older i wonder the words of GOD and how such a merciful GOD can be so unforgiving. Why did millions and millions die in his name and GOD doesn't respond? Every answer i get is that GOD is waiting for everyone to pick a side or that he has some master plan. The greatest response i have had which you see all over religious channels on TV is that this is the end of times. Funny, throughout history we have written account of people saying it is the end of time... What is GOD truly waiting for? Because if it is WW3 or everyone picking aside. then revelation will never come to be....

      September 19, 2011 at 2:33 pm |
    • Peter

      "Sodom for starters"

      LOL! Yeah, it's against gays because Lot was offering his daughters. You are such a typical brainwashed christian.

      September 19, 2011 at 2:35 pm |
    • areyouserious

      Peter, mine first name is Matthew... Funny right.. I am an Agnostic. guess again

      September 19, 2011 at 2:38 pm |
    • Sharon

      "Because if it is WW3 or everyone picking aside. then revelation will never come to be"

      WW3 we are in now – it's fighting terrorist. Everyone is picking sides....but revaluations will never come true since there is no god.

      September 19, 2011 at 2:42 pm |
    • areyouserious

      Sharon, your right, we cannot disprove or prove there is a GOD... Humanity must prevail and that means what? Most people know that religion is wrong, for the simple fact that religious people like to kill other religious people. "I am better than thou", how do we stop this curse on humanity? I personally dont know? i sit here and preach my beliefs and what good does that do? nothing, it just reconfirms your belief system. ME vs. YOU..... My mother is very religious and she tells me on a regular basis that she prays for me... What does that mean? I am agnostic in the sense that god has never personally spoke to me. Maybe i am doing something wrong by not giving money to the church or that i am even posting on this blog. What would Jesus do???? Why does my mother watch religious TV and pray? Would does ever preacher i see on church wear a suit? Did Jesus wear fancy cloths? All these questions but know real answers?? All i can say is, if God is real and Jesus was his prophet they would be totally disappointed in "churches" today.

      September 19, 2011 at 3:01 pm |
    • areyouserious

      "Would does ever preacher i see on church wear a suit? Did Jesus wear fancy cloths? All these questions but know real answers?? All i can say is, if God is real and Jesus was his prophet they would be totally disappointed in "churches" today."

      I apologize.. "why does every preacher i see in most christian churches wear a suit?

      September 19, 2011 at 3:05 pm |
    • Hasa Diga Eebowai

      You do realize that ga y se x is never mentioned in the story of Sodom.. If you was to base your entire existence on a book you would think one would know it inside and out. It appears that the language control that ancient churches had on people (ie they were the only ones to read the bible) has been replaced with ignorant apathy.

      September 19, 2011 at 3:59 pm |
  13. Alfonzo Muchanzo

    http://www.youtube.com/user/biologosfoundation?blend=10&ob=5

    September 19, 2011 at 2:13 pm |
    • AGuest9

      Pointing out that the educated can't be delusional?

      September 19, 2011 at 5:31 pm |
  14. word

    fu[/i]cking a

    September 19, 2011 at 2:11 pm |
  15. areyouserious

    the simple fact is that belief in one thing or something else will not go away. Have you watched the bigfoot show on animal planet? Can you make those guys believe that bigfoot doesnt exist, even though there really hasnt been any factual info on them. You would think by now that we would have found something by now, but we havent. I disagree with religion as a whole, especially Catholic and Muslim. Their views one life are outdated and racist...

    September 19, 2011 at 2:04 pm |
  16. Richard S Kaiser

    atypical Wrote on Monday, September 19, 2011 at 12:24 pm, “no, Mike B, all people who don't believe in your god aren't atheists that are trying to stir up trouble. some of us feel compelled to speak truth to power that oppresses and keeps people enslaved to illusion, and that what religion (primarily) has done for centuries. I don't subscribe to this author's idea of god, but there are many things that I resonated with all the same. nunti sunya–to the era of transparency and expansion.”

    Power that oppresses such a governmental policies which are not an affront for religious dictates is where one should embolden their “trying to stir up trouble’ fornications. To say people are “enslaved to illusion” is but a parody and oxymoron. Many people know full well that this world is not the Kingdom of God as professed within the KJVB.

    Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."

    Those people who try so valiantly to make this world to be of godliness instead of manliness concerns are fooling themselves. Is it not truth that we were cast out of heaven to be accosted upon a plain of relativity outside of the heavens? Are we not now celestial beings and are we not apart from our terrestial being which is a manifestation within us?

    1Cr 3:9 “For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.”

    1Cr 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

    September 19, 2011 at 1:26 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      "In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people." – James Madison

      September 19, 2011 at 1:40 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      "As with the Christian religion, the worst advertisement for Socialism is its adherents." – George Orwell

      September 19, 2011 at 1:43 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      @ Lucy's E.T.

      Here is Biblical Proof upon Biblical "liberty"

      http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=liberty&t=KJV

      One verse is this, "Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."

      September 19, 2011 at 1:53 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      I see what your saying "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." – George Orwell

      September 19, 2011 at 1:54 pm |
    • Flash

      Richard S Kaiser,

      Certainly you have been told that quoting the Bible means no more than quoting the Quran, the Book of Mormon, Scientology's book, Howl, or Alice in Wonderland.

      September 19, 2011 at 2:02 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      BTW – biblical proof is an oxymoron. Trying to persuade someone because your book says it's true does not compute. What if I don't believe your book is factual? Since you seem to need a book to believe in to make your life more meaningful, maybe you should read Dianetics by L.Ron Hubbard. His proponants believe his book is true because he said so. And it has the added value of being no more believable than your current book.

      September 19, 2011 at 2:03 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      Lucy's E.T. wrote, ""As with the Christian religion, the worst advertisement for Socialism is its adherents." – George Orwell

      The mockery of mimickery is a parrotous affair and yet to embolden the likelihood of socialistic sarcasms does the illiterate mind befall itself to pantomime with zealousness their curtailing witticisms of jealousies unbecoming the religious affairs of trusted truths about the human condition and its' conditioning welfare status.-Ricahrd S Kaiser

      September 19, 2011 at 2:03 pm |
    • Alfonzo Muchanzo

      @richard – Are you the same person as Lionly Lamb Does Roar? Cheers 🙂

      September 19, 2011 at 2:16 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      @ Lucy's E.T. who wrote, "BTW – biblical proof is an oxymoron. Trying to persuade someone because your book says it's true does not compute."

      To compute or not to compute, that is the question of computerized mainframes and not the brains of human "beings".-Ricahrd S Kaiser

      The KJVB is a book that every culture can not only find much similarities with and of and about themself or themselves, it is the Biblical Virtuosities of attainability that we human "beings" find a realtionship with.- Richard S Kaiser

      1Cr 3:9 “For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.”

      1Cr 3:17 "If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are"

      Of Fractal Cosmologies there are two dividing branches.

      1. Celestial Cosmology
      2. Cellular Cosmology

      Dare ye to question such?

      September 19, 2011 at 2:19 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      and yet you never fail to mimic or parrot your bible – godslave hypocrisy at its best

      September 19, 2011 at 2:27 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      @ Lucy's E.T.

      Although I "paraphrase", I do so to enlighten those who may find consolation. Your "paraprasing" spills of blatant contempt and pilfered ambiguity against long held beliefs in how we were historically put upon the path of spiritual enlightenments. True, some things of spiritual enlightenments are discouragingly resounding empathies, much that our Lord Christ Jesus is "reportedly" to have spoken does much to claim we are found free of the social stigmatas leavened by the hypocritical pastoralships past and present.

      I do so Love GOD and His Children, the Gods and Godesses of old times forsakedness lineages that we seldomly envision except in the movies or upon Playstations and X-boxes.

      As time progresses, we amy one day find oursleves looking ever deeply inside of the inner space places and say, "E-gads, there full of stars and planets and moons and all that which we see in outer space places!"

      September 19, 2011 at 3:26 pm |
  17. Richard S Kaiser

    I Love GOD because I am.
    I fear GOD because I am not.
    I love all things created and established from GOD's Willingness.
    I fear mankind's embittered opulence to condemn their own kind.
    I love and do fear much most of the time.

    To know faithfully that GOD's 1st Son who became a man known as Christ Jesus and He did die upon the cross to pay the ultimate price for mankind's redemption soulfulness is for most a "hard" pill to swallow. Many do try to subvert Christendom's revelations regarding OUR Lord and Savior's graced seeds of redemption whereupon all may one day find a sense of His peace in the Words He is reportedly to have long ago spoken. Our bodies are but treasure troves.

    1Cr 3:9 “For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.”

    September 19, 2011 at 12:58 pm |
    • William Demuth

      GOD because I am.
      I fear GOD because I am not.
      I love all things created and established from GOD's Willingness.
      I fear mankind's embittered opulence to condemn their own kind.
      I love and do fear much most of the time.

      September 19, 2011 at 1:02 pm |
    • William Demuth

      That almost seems self depricating?

      Do you believe you are independent of God, or just some metaphysical extension of God himself?

      The reason I ask is the first means your crazy, and the second means you're DANGEROUSLY crazy, and I wanted to see how whacked you really are?

      September 19, 2011 at 1:04 pm |
    • Peter

      Good on you Richard!

      September 19, 2011 at 1:28 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      @ William Demuth you wrote, "GOD because I am."

      I wrote, "I love GOD because I am"
      I am alive becuase of GOD
      I am learning because of GOD
      I do repent because of GOD.
      I see my faults because of GOD
      GOD allows me to be what "I am".

      September 19, 2011 at 1:31 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      Re-edyfied,,,,,,,,

      I Love GOD because I am.
      I am alive because of GOD
      I am learning because of GOD
      I am repentant because of GOD.
      I am seen my faults because of GOD
      GOD allows me to be what "I am".

      September 19, 2011 at 1:41 pm |
  18. atypical

    no, Mike B, all people who don't believe in your god aren't athiests that are trying to stir up trouble. some of us feel compelled to speak truth to power that oppresses and keeps people enslaved to illusion, and that what religion (primarily) has done for centuries.
    I don't subscribe to this author's idea of god, but there are many things that I resonated with all the same.
    nunti sunya–to the era of transparency and expansion.

    September 19, 2011 at 12:24 pm |
    • Peter

      "speak truth"...who's truth...not mine. You're doing exactly what you accuse. Your "truth" is your opinion...nothing more, nothing less. You are compelled to speak your opinion, just like the rest of us.

      September 19, 2011 at 12:30 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      So do you self-identify as a UFO nut, conspiracy theory or the lunatic fringe?

      September 19, 2011 at 12:41 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      I only ask, because after reading some of the material on the WingMakers Forum, (where I assume the "nunti sunya" comes from) there is some serious ganga smoking going on and i'm seriously dissapointed I wasn't invited.

      September 19, 2011 at 12:46 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Peter

      Truth? Fact and truth?

      Somehow you believe you can deny fact and insert opinion.

      Very Bronze Age thinking don't you think?

      Prove your faith, jump from the roof and ignore gravity, and we shall see if facts are subjective or not.

      September 19, 2011 at 12:58 pm |
    • Peter

      Where are the facts, William? Science? Science proves itself wrong every day. Let's take a look recently at the crowd who spent millions and millions to create the "God Particle" What was the last comment I read about that...to quote a scientist..."maybe there isn't one". Same goes for the process of dating things. It all comes from mere humans (processes). It all boils down to your opinion...that's all you have...if you have no Faith, then great... why not put a sock in it for a while..you've become all too common.

      September 19, 2011 at 1:32 pm |
    • Lucifer's Evil Twin

      CIRCULAR LOGIC – gets you no where repeatedly.

      September 19, 2011 at 1:48 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Peter

      Science is the belief that ALL things must be subject to scrutiny.

      Your religion means NOTHING is subject to scrutiny.

      You are an endangered species, with thoughts barely above a cave mans

      September 19, 2011 at 2:44 pm |
  19. Robert

    Losing my wife, wealth, and reputation has resulted in a humbling purification of my soul and a refocusing on what matters – foremost a life-giving union with Christ. I too am a better man for experiencing what the author describes. Good article for those who can receive it and an idiotic article for those who cannot.

    September 19, 2011 at 11:56 am |
    • DamianKnight

      @Robert,

      I am so sorry for all of your losses, in particular, your wife. I'll pray for you and I hope things turn around quickly.

      September 19, 2011 at 12:03 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Robert

      Faith manipulates the vulnerable.

      I mourn for your mind.

      September 19, 2011 at 12:04 pm |
    • leecherius

      exactly..

      September 19, 2011 at 12:04 pm |
    • Peter

      Amen Robert! Exactly the same situation as myself...to a tee. You are not alone in more ways than one. Keep the Faith.

      September 19, 2011 at 12:14 pm |
    • Alfonzo Muchanzo

      @Robert & Peter – I am sorry for both of your losses. I will also pray that things will get better for you both, God bless 🙂

      September 19, 2011 at 12:19 pm |
    • Question

      "Losing my wife"

      Did she die or are you now divorced? If you are divorced then you have committed adultery according to your cult.

      September 19, 2011 at 12:22 pm |
    • Peter

      @Question??? Robert doesn't even mention if he is in a relationship other than with Christ. Besides, there is a reason, in the Bible, where divorce is permitted and new relationships formed. The case where a spouse has been unfaithful, it is permitted. Even if that it not the case, Robert states, as I do, that he has found the Lord, therefore he is Saved and therefore he can be forgiven. That is why Jesus was sent and why he died...for us...at least the one who will accept him.

      September 19, 2011 at 12:27 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Peter

      So he can be an axe murdered and he goes to heaven for kissing JC's rear, but Mahatma Ghandi burns in hell?

      My, you ARE a renneck aren't you!

      September 19, 2011 at 12:30 pm |
    • Peter

      William,

      Renneck? Don't know that one and dictionary.com doesn't either...explain. I'm sure it's a compliment as I'm sure someone like you wouldn't stoop to name calling. However, my understanding is yes, you are correct. Provided an axe murderer finds the Lord in his heart he will be saved. It's called FAITH. Try it some time, it's what makes it hard for folks like you. If it doesn't manifest before your eyes you can't accept. As for Ghandi, I hope I'm wrong, but no, if he didn't accept Christ as his Savior...

      September 19, 2011 at 12:37 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Peter

      So ALL is forgiven if you worship, and if you do not worship you burn?

      Even in your indoctrinated state that must seem psychotic?

      You ALSO realize that by that metric ANYONE who existed before Christ burns? Moses, Adam, Noah, ALL of them. Even Abraham never even HEARD fo Christ, so he burns as well?

      Leave it to Christians to cannibalize your ancestors as you even cannibalize the body of Christ.

      September 19, 2011 at 12:55 pm |
    • Smite Me

      Peter,

      Tell us how your imaginary "God" behaves, and you tell us what you are. You, sir, are a vile and desp.icable piece of dung.

      September 19, 2011 at 12:58 pm |
    • Peter

      Smite Me...as I posted earlier, you are gutless. Because of my belief you turn to calling me a vile name. I am human and I would love to bump into you, mate! Please wear the name Smite Me on a shirt, just in case we cross paths. I am more than willing to go at it with folks like you!

      September 19, 2011 at 1:19 pm |
    • Peter

      William, you are wrong! And I never said anyone burns! I don't claim to know everything and burning Ghandi does not seem fair, I agree. People who were around before Christ will not burn because they did not know Christ. Moses law applied up until that time. 10 Commandments etc.

      September 19, 2011 at 1:22 pm |
    • Flash

      Peter,
      "Moses law applied up until that time."

      What about all the people who lived *before* Moses? What about all the people who lived in New Guinea or China or the Amazon jungles or in far-flung places all over the world?

      The fact that your "God" relies on human transmission of its wishes speaks volumes. An All-Powerful "God" could flash its message in neon lights on the moon every night... indisputable and understandable to all, in every language.

      Your "God" is man-imagined.

      September 19, 2011 at 1:42 pm |
    • Peter

      How original, Flash. I can't answer your questions, but I'm sure there are answers. You haven't offered up anything other than "My God is man-imagined". I am waiting for someone to offer up proof that there is no God, but I'm not seeing it???

      September 19, 2011 at 1:52 pm |
    • Smite Me

      Peter,
      "I am more than willing to go at it with folks like you!"

      Deal. Just remember, when I ask you, "What is the behavior of your "God"", if your answer is anything other than, "I don't know", you will have lots of 'splainin' to do.

      September 19, 2011 at 2:11 pm |
  20. Richard S Kaiser

    Catholicism is yes, the Mothering Force from which was born Her Children of Christendom. Like social organisms with little to not much intellectual hindsightiveness, are Christendom's children, the tainted waters of multi-socialistic virtuosities bemoaning their affiliations of discontentments toward the Priesthoods of Catholicism's discoursing Acts of pedophilia.

    The common Layperson of Christianized Theologies apart from Catholicism will ever be of the "forgive them" persuasiveness. To be a "perfection" work is an implausibility. Neither atheists nor the religious can profess themself a work of perfection. For anyone to want an "eye for an eye", one needs to have walked with said eye to see what the other eye has seen. To say we should destroy the whole building because on stone looks out of place is preposterous.

    Religion cannot stand on its' own merits and likewise atheism cannot be without there being religion. There will always be these two fronts of socialism and there always was such frontage throughout the human race's His-Story.

    September 19, 2011 at 11:53 am |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      I fergets de "e"

      To say we should destroy the whole building because on"e" stone looks out of place is preposterous.

      🙂

      September 19, 2011 at 11:56 am |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13
Advertisement
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.