September 26th, 2011
04:41 PM ET

Google makes 5 Dead Sea Scrolls searchable

By Kevin Flower and Izzy Lemberg, CNN

Jerusalem (CNN) - In a perfect blending of 21st-century advances with the cutting-edge technology of an earlier age, starting this week internet users can, for the first time, use Google search and scanning technology to examine five manuscripts from the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Google and the Israel Museum unveiled the project Monday in Jerusalem with the launch of a museum website that allows users to interact with the ancient texts in a way impossible just a few years ago.

"You have the capability with high-resolution definition to look at the scrolls in a comfortable setting - to enlarge them, to magnify them, to translate them into English and to search for words, phrases or verses that you want to find on your own," said James Snyder, director of the Israel Museum. "It really allows for your own interactive research with the material."

Made up of 30,000 fragments from 900 manuscripts, the Dead Sea Scrolls are considered by many historians to be one of the most important archaeological finds ever made.

The ancient manuscripts, made of leather, papyrus and copper, were first discovered in 1947 by a nomadic shepherd in a cave near the Dead Sea. In the years that followed, more scroll fragments were located.

Dating back over 2,000 years, the scrolls reveal details about the development of Judaism during the Hellenistic period and shed light on the relationship between early Christian and Jewish religious traditions.

The Israel Museum is home to eight of the manuscripts that are considered to be among the most complete and best preserved. Snyder said the museum and Google began working on the project six months ago.

"It's becoming a much more simple process than it used to be," Snyder explained. "With camera technology today, to do this kind of high-resolution imagery is not that difficult."

The most important of the museum's manuscripts, known as the Great Isaiah Scroll, contains the oldest known written text of the Bible. On the new museum internet site users can search the scroll with keywords. Clicking on the Hebrew text pulls up English translations of every verse.

Snyder said he hopes putting the collection online will attract more visitors to the museum and make the concepts in important texts more accessible.

"It shortens the formidable distance between an individual out there in the world and an object of such unique significance," he said.

For Google it is not the company's first foray into bringing its technology to bear on historic artifacts. A year ago the company announced collaboration with the Israeli Antiquities Authority to scan and catalog its collection of thousands of Dead Sea Scroll fragments, and the company has worked with Israel's Holocaust Museum, Yad Vashem, to put its photo collection online.

Yossi Matias, Google's head of research and development in Israel, says projects like these are in keeping with the company's mission.

"Our bigger goal is to take all heritage cultural information and make it available online," he said. "We are connecting people worldwide to the scrolls. ... In a way, you get engagement between people (today) and the people who wrote these scrolls over 2,000 years ago."

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Bible • Israel • Technology

soundoff (446 Responses)
  1. Redemption

    I think the question most christian's forget to ask atheist is what would they do if God's existence was proven?

    September 27, 2011 at 4:42 pm |
    • Anon

      Which god?

      September 27, 2011 at 5:06 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      I too ask which one? god? or God? or GOD?

      September 27, 2011 at 5:17 pm |
    • Anon

      Christians are obviously referring to the abrahamic god of three desert blood cults Yahweh/Jesus/Jehovah.

      September 27, 2011 at 5:23 pm |
    • I'm The Best!

      If his existence was proven, then most, if not all, atheists would believe.

      What would theists do if it was proven that there is no god?

      September 27, 2011 at 5:35 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      @ Aron,,,,

      I have Christian morals and scruples Aron yet I will not go to these manmade churches when Christ Himself did say, that our bodies are but buildings and temples and even they are the Kingdoms of the Gods. Tell this to a Christian of worldliness and they might shoot you! Such Faithlessness in scriptured relativism is moot,,,,,,,

      September 27, 2011 at 5:38 pm |
  2. just saying

    @Arjun, I was refering to the Christian God. I cannot to speak of other religion's Gods because I've not study those Gods.

    September 27, 2011 at 4:10 pm |
  3. Reality

    And it is all vitiated by the following:=========================>

    1. origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482

    “New Torah For Modern Minds

    Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

    Such startling propositions – the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years – have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity – until now.

    The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine docu-ment. “

    The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel – not one shard of pottery."

    2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations (or “mythicizing” from P, M, M, L and J) and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a ma-mzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). An-alyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Ludemann, Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, ) via the NT and related doc-uments have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

    The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hitt-ites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.


    For added "pizzazz", Catholic theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

    Current RCC problems:

    Pedophiliac priests, an all-male, mostly white hierarchy, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

    3., Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immacu-late co-nceptions).

    Current problems:
    Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology,

    September 27, 2011 at 4:06 pm |
    • My God's Bigger Than Yours

      I don't care that I may be the only person to read all the way through this– excellent information here! Thanks!

      September 27, 2011 at 4:35 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      @ Reality,,,
      Current problems:
      Adulterous preachers, pedophiliac clerics, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology

      Other Problems:
      Atheist Adulterers, Atheist pedophiles, profiteering Atheists who take and do not give back not to mention Atheists who blatantly and do outright steal from their fellows.

      September 27, 2011 at 5:04 pm |
    • Biron

      The amount of misinformation and speculation in your text is....total. I don't even trust the time-stamp under your comment. What banality....

      September 27, 2011 at 5:11 pm |
    • .........

      spam alert hit report abuse on all reality posts

      September 27, 2011 at 7:46 pm |
    • Reality

      A summary for posting on your refrigerator doors:




      Added details upon request.

      September 28, 2011 at 12:00 am |
    • Reality

      Why did today's pope, prelates, preachers and rabbis, so focused on society's se-xual sins, lose sight of clerical se-xual sins?

      Obviously ordination in any religion is not assurance of good behavior !!!!!

      Neither is coronation!!! e.g. Henry VIII, King David.

      Neither is marriage as 50% of those men convicted of pedophilia are married.

      Neither is being elected president of the USA!! e.g. Billy "I did not have se-x with that girl" Clinton, John "Marilyn Monroe" Kennedy"

      Neither is possessing super athletic skill!!! e.g. Tiger "I am so sorry for getting caught" Woods

      Neither is being an atheist or pagan since pedophilia is present in all walks of life.

      If someone is guilty of a crime in this litany of "neithers" they should or should have been penalized as the law dictates to include jail terms for pedophiliacs (priests, rabbis, evangelicals, boy scout leaders, married men/women), divorce for adultery (Clinton, Kennedy, Woods), jail terms for obstruction of justice (Clinton, Cardinal Law, B16?) and the death penalty or life in prison for murder ("Kings David and Henry VIII).

      September 28, 2011 at 12:04 am |
  4. Gerald

    LOL @ hippypoet and other garden variety atheists. It's always funny to see atheists get sooooo ticked off that people believe in God. Surely, it makes far more sense to believe that a ball of absolutely nothing became volatile and exploded, creating a lot of everything. Then a planet formed out of that explosion of nothing that caught on fire for millions of years rotating around another planet...also made from the nothing explosion. On that planet, water magically appeared, and life formed out of more nothing, dragged itself up from the seas and evolved into man. Wow, that really does make a lot of sense. LOL (*atheists are hilarious!*)

    September 27, 2011 at 4:04 pm |
    • I'm The Best!

      @ Gerald
      Wow, It's astounding how little you actually know about the Big bang and the evolution of planets and stars , and the general composition of the universe.

      Pre-universe, things did not have to have a cause and effect. Time didn't need to be linear before the universe. Even if this isn't true, one of the laws of thermodynamics states that things decay over time, or lose entropy. So a ball with high enough evergy to create all the matter in the universe could have decayed enough for it to become volitile and explode. With the equation E=mc2, we know that with enough energy matter will form. The simplist matter is Hydrogen which is why there is more of that in the universe than anything else.

      If you then look into how stars form, and their lifecycle, you can see how planets can form around them and how some will have a lot of hydrogen and oxygen (water). Life coming out of nowhere is also possible, pretty unlikely, but possible.

      With enough knowledge of the universe and how things work, I'd say your beliefs are the ones that are laughable.


      September 27, 2011 at 4:21 pm |
    • Mom2000

      And what was before the Universe? Where did that ball of intense energy come from? Where did all that energy sufficient to create our whole universe comes from? Not even mentioning other universes. Unless your knowledge for some reason exceed what is now available, Gerald explanation is as good as any other.

      September 27, 2011 at 4:29 pm |
    • I'm The Best!

      @ mom2000
      If there was no cause and effect before the universe then there was no time. So there was also no "before". And the ball of energy could have been anything, even the collapse of a fourth dimemsion which would help explain why we only live in three.

      My main point was science understands these things much better than Gerald seems to think. Many of these things can and are explained by science.

      September 27, 2011 at 4:38 pm |
    • My God's Bigger Than Yours

      Wow. "Garden variety atheists"? This you say of people who are trying to keep an open mind about the origin of our existence– who are willing to accept alternate theories and LOGICALLY analyze them with our lovely human brains that were supposedly given us by your precious Christian God? We're just using the tools we were given after all, right? Unlike you NON-garden variety WILDLY different Christians WHO ALL BELIEVE THE EXACT SAME THING that was crammed down your throats from infancy... hmm. Yes. Garden variety indeed– you are truly a mental vegetable.

      September 27, 2011 at 4:39 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      "WHO ALL BELIEVE THE EXACT SAME THING that was crammed down your throats from infancy."

      That's an incorrect statement.

      September 27, 2011 at 4:45 pm |

      even more funny is that you believe in a book that proves itself false on multiple occasions

      and then you actually ignore the lies and still believe in it

      talk about stupid

      September 27, 2011 at 6:49 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      "and then you actually ignore the lies and still believe in it"
      Who ignores anything of it?

      September 27, 2011 at 7:03 pm |
  5. BadLuck

    Great. Now more maniacs can justify their religious positions based on ancient ramblings. "Thanks Google."

    September 27, 2011 at 4:00 pm |
  6. Andrew

    why is everyone here so hung up about religion? This is a great piece of archaeological history which everyone can now enjoy from home.

    September 27, 2011 at 3:43 pm |
    • Mom2000

      I completely agree!

      September 27, 2011 at 4:21 pm |
    • My God's Bigger Than Yours

      Well stated!

      September 27, 2011 at 4:41 pm |
  7. Kevin O.

    You idol seekers. I only read what I see here and say to myself "This is a human condition which will pass." and then I go back to drinking my tea and reading what I see in my cup. It says "Have another cup."

    September 27, 2011 at 3:39 pm |
  8. DD

    I would prefer to do my own translating, thank you.

    September 27, 2011 at 3:34 pm |
  9. coder

    religion – the biggest con in human history

    September 27, 2011 at 3:23 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      So you believe.

      September 27, 2011 at 3:58 pm |


      so we know

      religion is nothing but a con for control

      and sheep willingly flock to it

      no wonder theyre mostly all broke

      September 27, 2011 at 6:51 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      @THE BROWN NOTE- You have proven nothing. You have just gave an opinion, a very factless opinion.

      September 27, 2011 at 7:04 pm |
    • Anon

      Check out certain parts in Africa and see some of the mess that religion caused.

      September 27, 2011 at 7:55 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      "Check out certain parts in Africa and see some of the mess that religion caused."

      Odd, I thought most of that was everything from tribal warfare, colonialism and capitalism screwing them up.

      September 28, 2011 at 1:55 pm |
  10. Brad

    Now that the Scrolls are available on line we can have worldwide confusion at greater speed. Think about the canon of the Bible. Originally, there was no Bible, but a loose collection of approximately seventy-three books that were put into a preliminary canon in 397 a.d. at the Council of Carthage. Now today, we have at least 20,000 Protestant denominations worldwide. Suppose we gave each denomination a copy of that loose collection and ask each group to produce a canon. Based on statistical combinations, the Protestants could produce 5329 different canons containing from one to 73 books. Private interpretation would guide them. Catholics do it differently. Since the Catholic church wrote the New Testament, we take it on good authority that She know what she's talking about when interpreting the bible.

    September 27, 2011 at 3:09 pm |
    • CrownRoyal

      uhhhh. You do know the catholic church banned the new testament all the way to the 'recent' middle 1500's right? You do know the catholic church put CHRISTIANS to death for being in posession of new testament gospel texts, right? And at the end of the day, your intelligent, tollerant, open minded solution is to not let the dead sea scrolls be visible to the public......... Really? Is this what people are coming to these days? Liars and ignoramus's?

      September 27, 2011 at 3:17 pm |
    • becool

      Is that right? Catholic knows it right?? Catholic have written their own canon!!! History has proved it, everything in Catholicism was created all over the centuries of Chistianity... No Bible, but traditon. I'd rather follow the so called 20,000 protestant denominations (basically, they are all the same) and not to trust those who created their own christianity...

      September 27, 2011 at 3:27 pm |
    • Kevin O.

      Lilith is interpreting the Bible? Where? I wanna see!!!!

      September 27, 2011 at 3:38 pm |
    • Brad

      The catholic church did not ban the New Testament. The Catholic Church wrote it, reproduced it, safeguarded it into the 16th century before Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, and the like adjusted it according to taste. You may be thinking about when the printing press allowed mass printing of the Bible. Until that time, the Bible was written in Latin. As a defensive expedient, Protestants often lie that the Catholic church kept it in Latin to prevent believers from "discovering the truth". Anyone who could read or write in those days, read or wrote Latin. Now, we know that the Protestant churches are full of little popes. Each member is sure that he can infallibly interpret the scriptures. Also, before the printing press, Bibles were repoduced by hand. If a church had one, it was a capital investment and, yes, was chained to the pulpit like you lock your car. THis is not the same as banning.

      September 27, 2011 at 3:52 pm |
  11. Obviously

    Gotta love technology. Now millions can research these without any damage to the originals. Believe in a god or not, it's pretty cool looking at an old remnant of human history.

    September 27, 2011 at 3:03 pm |
  12. Hmmm......

    I am so amazed at all the bashing of this and that on here. What works for you does not work for me, but just becuase it worked for you does not mean it is wrong. How each of us choose to live our lifes is totally up to us. No one has a right to judge another and say "You are an idiot becuase you believe in God and have Faith". Really, what is so terribly wrong with that. Yes the Bible was written by man, yes it was written long long ago, yes the words and teachings are not practical, but they are a guide for those who choose to follow it. Just like any fairy tale, nursery rythm, legend, or myth that was passed down for generations, the Bible is meant to teach lessons for life. I can produly can say I believe in God and a higher power. There are to many variables in life and even science to not, but that is just my opinion. And guess what, I also believe in the Big Bang Theroy and that science is amazing, as is God. My God however is not better than anyone else's, and I would never push that on you or you or anyone else. I don't have to cite any sources, or prove anything to anyone about my beleif becuase it is that, MY BELIEF! I think that without God there is no science and without science there is no God. Everything is connected some how some way if you look at the grand scheme of things. Life is to short to sit and rip apart everyone else and obviusoly if you have to point fingers at someone and say your an idiot you must be one too! There are so many things we do not know, and not anyone here or anywhere can claim to know it all. So saying there is no God is like saying there is no Santa Clause, cause guess what the legend of Santa is based on St.Nicholas, who was a real person. So who is to say that Jesus and his stories and teachings are not based on something real. I am not an idiot, no one can tell me that I am becuase of what I CHOOSE to believe. Get over it, move on, and stop hating on each other, its like the bullies at school. God, in my opinion, takes the form of what ever it is you choose to believe or not believe. But again that is my opinion and all can bash and say whatever they want. I feel sorry for those who choose to knock one persons belief to make their own stronger to themself.

    September 27, 2011 at 2:53 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      Instead of one elongated paragraph please disect it into smaller bits please,,,, It is way too lengthy for my eye to follow,,,, 🙂

      September 27, 2011 at 3:04 pm |
    • just saying

      you're confused...you cannot say you believe in God and at the same time say you believe in the Big bang theory. They're two opposing view points

      September 27, 2011 at 3:25 pm |
    • Arjun

      @just saying Why they are not compatible? Do you just mean christian God? Hindu scriptures say that all the universes came out of the body of purusha incarnation of the lord, when he breaths out and when he breaths in all the universes enter him again. This is a kind of expanding from singularity and again going back to the same singularity in cyclic periods. This is what recent theories suggest too. Not just one way expansion of the universe. It goes to singularity again.
      Bible does not give details of exact process of creation. So you can not say they are not compatible.

      September 27, 2011 at 3:43 pm |
    • Hmmm......

      No actually they are not, at least not for me they are not. Just becuase I have Faith and believe in God does not mean I have to subscribe to everything that goes with it. There are different levels of believe.
      There is too much evidence to not believe in the Big Bang Theory and in evelotuion and in dinosaurs and all that jazz......there is nothing stopping me from being rational and using the big brian I have. I know the earth is not flat, I know that the earth is millions of years old, so what, I also know I have Faith and my believe in God.
      That is one of those many unexplained things out there.....being able to believe in God and the Big Bang Theory. As I mentioned, just because I believe in God does not make me an idiot.

      September 27, 2011 at 3:47 pm |
    • Epona

      @ "just saying" : Sure you can. It is perfectly possible to believe in a higher power, that which Western culture commonally refer to as "God," and also believe in the Big Bang Theory (BBT). It all depends on what you believe about "God" and BBT. Not everyone who believes in "God" is a Christian creationist who thinks the book of Genesis in the Christian Bible is literal truth. There is lots of room in spiritual beliefs about "God" to also include BBT.

      September 27, 2011 at 3:49 pm |
    • Hmmm......

      @Epona........I couldn't have said it better myself. You cannot catagorize all with one.

      September 27, 2011 at 3:52 pm |
    • just saying

      @Epona, sorry I should be more specific I was referring to the Christian's God.

      September 27, 2011 at 4:13 pm |
    • Hmmm......

      @Just....I happen to be Catholic and believe in both. Really shocking isn't it.

      September 27, 2011 at 4:31 pm |

      thats because catholicism is a business

      not a religion

      September 27, 2011 at 6:51 pm |
  13. My God's Bigger Than Yours

    OKAY Let's look at this logically. IF these things are true: (1) Not accepting Christ as your savior condemns you to an eternity of tormenting hellfire AND (2) God loves you more than you can comprehend– more than a mother loves her child AND (3) God, who supposedly created you, knows you so well that he even knows the number of hairs on your head THEN it would only make sense that (1) God would do ANYTHING in his power, loving you as he does, to keep you OUT of hell (meaning, proving his existence to you) AND (2) He would know EXACTLY how to get through to you, no matter how atheistic and logical and scientific you are– HE knows you well enough to know what it would take to get through to you. So the question remains– WHY DOESN'T HE? Why I don't I see a giant finger from the sky writing "GOD EXISTS" in front of me on the pavement? I'm not an atheist, but I sure as shucks don't believe in hell or the Christian construct.

    September 27, 2011 at 2:50 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      Nothing but a sheer hogwashing by one who deems illiteracy to be 10 letter word,,,,,,,,,,,,,

      September 27, 2011 at 3:02 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      One aspect that ppl tend to leave out of God is that of Justice. Should evil go unpunished? Do we even begin to know what damage evil does to the world or others?
      Just questions to think on and not to fight on.

      September 27, 2011 at 3:05 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      Well, I'll be horn swaggled, illiteracy is a ten letter word,!!!!! 🙂

      September 27, 2011 at 3:08 pm |
    • Don Camp

      Why doesn't God make himself obvious? One reason is that would not result in the kind of faith in him God desires. It would only force people to acknowledge his existence. But so what? Lots of people who are convinced of God's existence have nevertheless refused to respond to his love for them. Recognizing that God exists and $2.50 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

      Since to any thinking person the existence of God is quite evident, or at the very least highly probable, God does not need to write his name in the clouds.

      What God desires is our willing enjoyment of him (aka worship). Anyone who takes what he knows of God – little or much – and joins that with the desire to enjoy God will not fail to find him very very real.

      September 27, 2011 at 3:18 pm |
    • I'm The Best!

      @Don Camp
      You said "Since to any thinking person the existence of God is quite evident, or at the very least highly probable..."

      I disagree with this statement completely. A thinking person can realize that the universe as a whole does not need God to exist. It could have been almost anything, but didn't have to be a god that created everything. And if you look at this scientifically, then you can see that the universe as a closed system which runs on its own is much more logical than a universe being influenced by an outside 'observer' (god) who to do anything would have to periodically alter the laws of physics for his actions to take effect.

      If there was a god altering the laws of physics, why hasn't a scientist found an instance where this happens? It's usually only true believers which can usually be explianed by the human nature of seeing things that a person wants to see rather than what's really there.

      So I say that a thinking person would come to the opposite conclusion in that there is no god, or that a god is highly improbable.

      September 27, 2011 at 3:28 pm |
    • marie h

      the reason he doesnt force anyone to believe or not follow is simply freedom of choice your own self will. just as he put adam and eve ( not steve) in the garden he told them what they could and could not do they had a choice and they chose to be disobedient. the same is true for faith and salvation the choice is yours god will not make you do anything that is against your free will yes he knows what it will take to change your heart but he also knows some people will never change and no matter what you go thru or lose in this life you refuse to accept his ways and concepts therefore you chose your own destiny in the depths of hells fire eternal. each person is appointed a lot in life you may be poor or sick all your life but your souls destiny is your decision i can give you a plate of food if you choose not to eat it and you choose to die that is your choice not mine. if i throw you a rope and you refuse to take ahold of it and you are swept away that was your choice God will not force you to change free will.

      September 27, 2011 at 3:37 pm |
    • ddl

      It's because we have free will–the ability to make our own choices. God gave us that freedom because of His great love for us. He could have chosen to create us to do only His will, but I imagine that would not be as much fun.

      September 27, 2011 at 3:38 pm |
    • What If

      Don Campbell: There is a little 'universe' in every skin cell that you shed by the thousands every day. There is a little 'universe' in every tiny sneeze droplet. YOU created them. Do you give a care to what happens to them or in them? We just don't know (yet) what the grand scheme is... or even if there is one.

      Fantasy can sometimes be pleasant and even helpful when brainstorming for answers, but trying to live there is useless.

      September 27, 2011 at 3:40 pm |
    • What If

      oops, sorry, Don Camp... I gave you a bell by mistake.

      September 27, 2011 at 3:42 pm |
    • I'm The Best!

      @marie h and ddl
      Free will is just a figment of the human imagination. A reflex is basically the same as any other reaction, it's just that the reactions that we don't say are reflex are long enough for our brain to pretend it had anything to do with them. There have been scientific studies done on whether or not there is free will and the general conclusion is that the action happens microseconds before the thought that you want to do something. So free will does not exist.

      If you don't believe that, it's okay, I have more.
      If I was born to a different family than my own, possibly one that was very religious and attended church every week, then I may have become religious. But my family didn't go to church. My parents believed in God, but they didn't really talk about it and didn't push me into a religion. The more thought I gave religion, the more I became an atheist. So why would god put me with a family that would lead me to not believe in him? If he created me, and knew how stubborn I was going to be, why not put me with a family that believed so I would have a better chance in choosing to believe in him?

      September 27, 2011 at 3:49 pm |
    • marie h

      hey @ i'm the best-get this the big bang happened not the way some christians explain and certainly not the way some educated fools think. in the beginning god said let their be light... the key here is that god spoke his awesome voice broke darkness and silence and he began to create...time was given to man our 24 hr days but before time began and god set things in motion in a scientific pattern there was no time the eve and the morning were the first day but we have no idea how long that took ...a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day. so things were put in place by god as to what would happen or evolve but not man he was created and god breathed in to man and he became a living soul... multiplied thousands of years had long passed since his big bang voice filled the void. as for god not monitoring things oh yes on occasion god steps in when they were fighting the big battle and the sun was going down and the children of israel needed the sun not to set until the battle was won the sun did not set and it altered time and scientist have proven that the sun stood still gods ways are a mystery but he uses the course of nature to alter and change things to bring about faith and punishment. its your choice to accept or refuse.

      September 27, 2011 at 3:51 pm |
    • I'm The Best!

      @marie h
      I don't know anything about scientist proving that the sun stood still, but if you can show me the study or whatever it was, I'd be happy to look over it.

      As for the big bang and evolution of man...
      I don't know what started the big bang, but it could have been anything, no need for a god to start it. Any plausible theory could be the way it all began and some of these theories do not include a god.
      And if god created man, why are there so many fossils linking man and ape? We can see in the fossil record, man with ape-like features and going further back in history we can see the de-evolution of man back towards a common ancestor of modern-day apes

      September 27, 2011 at 4:09 pm |
    • marie h

      @ i'm the best...think on this you said your parents believed in god how do you know if they never talked to you about him? also since at some point in your life you were exposed to religion you made a concious decision to not accept his existence why? have you searched for him? have you prayed or have you merely said hey if you exist give me a sign? as i said before we are all given a "lot" in life you have a strong self will what would you have god do to show you he is real let your child die or be a vegetable, strike you blind a he did paul let you get ate by a big fish as he did jonah let you turn into a mumbling mad man as happened to saul for rejecting him i don' t think you have searched for him i think you took the easy way and said he doesnt exist but i am sure when you are ill or sick or hurt you yell oh God! if not then i am sure somewhere deep inside you there is a small faint voice that says seek me while i may be found or i will turn you over to a reprobate mind and you will believe a lie and be damned but as you stated your stubbornness will not let you admit it. we do not choose what we are born with or into but we have a say in where we end up and what we choose to accept.

      September 27, 2011 at 4:19 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      I'm The Best! wrote on Tuesday, September 27, 2011 at 3:28 pm, @Don Camp, stating, You said "Since to any thinking person the existence of God is quite evident, or at the very least highly probable..."

      I’m The Best responded with, “I disagree with this statement completely. A thinking person can realize that the universe as a whole does not need God to exist. It could have been almost anything, but didn't have to be a god that created everything. And if you look at this scientifically, then you can see that the universe as a closed system which runs on its own is much more logical than a universe being influenced by an outside 'observer' (god) who to do anything would have to periodically alter the laws of physics for his actions to take effect.”

      I, Rick now state by writing, “the universe as a whole” is most definitely or at least, in my opinion is not the wholeness of the Cosmos. This Universe is but one singularity of immeasurable Universes far too numerous to count let alone see or perceptively envision.

      I, Rick continue on saying, Our universe is a “closed system” does not compute at least in my understanding ways. Like the body’s cellular universes, there is a give and take phenomena ever ongoing and so it would comparatively seem between the Celestial Universes.

      I'm The Best! continues on stating, “If there was a god altering the laws of physics, why hasn't a scientist found an instance where this happens? It's usually only true believers which can usually be explianed by the human nature of seeing things that a person wants to see rather than what's really there. So I say that a thinking person would come to the opposite conclusion in that there is no god, or that a god is highly improbable.”

      I Rick state, Scientists cannot even yet fathom the perception that the Cosmos is so full of Universes that we have not the means let alone the mental hindsight to outrightly contemplate such a plausible consideration. “Our “ and I use such mildly, our Universe floats upon the Ocean of Nothingness much the same ways that our bodies’ cell-like universes float upon the creeks or streams of Nothingness. I am a “thinking person” oh “I;m The Best!” and I believe GOD to be the Wholeness of the Celestial Cosmos and this notion of Outer Space being the “vacuum” is a falsehood. This thing we call Outer Space is but an Ocean of Nothingness and makes rivers and streams and creeks of Nothingness that reaches down into the absolute depths of all material things from the biggest of stars to the smallest of things such as an atom. This Nothingness is the Holy Spirit and it cannot be destroyed nor cut into pieces.

      September 27, 2011 at 4:21 pm |
    • I'm The Best!

      @ marie h
      My parents did talk a little of god but it was never a big subject. They never pushed me to read the bible or to go to church and really anything religious. I don't think there is anything that can make me believe in him now short of him coming down from heaven and saying hello then leaving again. But if this happened, I would probably check myself into a mental instatution.

      My point is as a child I was more likely to believe so why didn't he put me with a family that would push me to believe at a young age. And I was never really introduced to religion by anyone, I really came by it on my own. My friends didn't talk about it much at school and my parents didn't talk about it much at home.

      September 27, 2011 at 4:34 pm |
    • marie h

      @ i'm the best... google it... time stood still scientific study. as for the creation i know their theories some sub micro organism just popped out of nowhere and began to evolve into all living things. but....what made that micro organism appear what created it what created its molecules its atoms? do you really believe you descended from an ape? they have never found the actual link connecting man to ape that one species that made the transformation complete and since it would be the absolute youngest i would think it would be found easier also why did they stop evolving why do apes still exist if they evolve? why do we not still see this process of today? look at all the fish types all have fins gills tails etc... but all different but still fish. man is man and ape is ape a with the fish you have apes gorillas chimps monkeys etc... you have sharks whales bass sunfish tropical fish with man you have white man red man oriental men black man brown men each species has their own traits but all in their own species no evolution involved

      September 27, 2011 at 4:37 pm |
    • I'm The Best!

      @ marie h
      Evolution actually explains a lot of this if you read into how humans evolved. We see apes today because not all of them needed to evolve. The prevailing theory is that due to some climate change and a lush forest disappearing, some apes needed to start walking upright so they could get across open areas easier. The apes that lived in an area where the forest did not disappear didn't need to evolve as much so those are the ones we see today.

      As for no record linking that far back, it really isn't too much of a surprise since that starts reaching into the thousands and millions of years and bone doesn't do very well when it's outside of a body. So unless they died where conditions were just right for fossilization then we wont find them.

      As for the sub micro organism popping into existence... All the parts needed to make one of these organisms are found naturally in nature without life. Many of them also naturally pull towards one another. These individual parts could have come together in such an orientation that an organism was "born". From there evolution takes place and you eventually get us.

      Also, I looked up "time stood still scientific study" and didn't get anything. Actually one of the sites was this one referencing where you asked me to look it up.

      September 27, 2011 at 5:13 pm |
    • Here Ya Go

      marie h,

      It looks like you have a LOT more googling to do - and elsewhere than christian creationist sites, please.

      You are quite uneducated.

      Just to tackle one of your statements about human evolution:

      Humans are Primates. We share a common extinct ancestor with other Primates (as distinguished by DNA, body structure and function), such as gorillas, gibbons, etc.

      Squirrels are Rodents. They share a common extinct ancestor with mice, rats, beavers, etc. Would you be likely to say, "If there are squirrels, why are there still mice?

      September 27, 2011 at 5:14 pm |
    • marie h

      @ here ya go... dont call me uneducated because you have studied evolution in different terms i am not uneducated just because i follow a different study group. i do not believe in evolution and i have seen study groups reports on both sides of the table on this subject. just like the other day the news stated that einsteins theory of relativity is now wrong. so i guess this puts a dent in a few peoples equations. so in my opinion your mentality didnt evolve as fast as your mouth you still have a apes brain so go look for fleas. you said they evolved from an extinct ancestor duh... so how do you know they evolved how do you know it was their ancestor if it was does that explain why its extinct like the apes should be.

      September 27, 2011 at 5:55 pm |
    • Here Ya Go

      marie h,

      I hate to break it to you, but you (scratch, scratch) are a member of the PRIMATE order too:

      "Apes are animals, members of the biological superfamily Hominoidea, part of the order Primates. Hominoidea contains two families of living (extant) species:

      * Hylobatidae consists of four genera and sixteen species of gibbon, including the lar gibbon and the siamang. They are commonly referred to as lesser apes.
      * Hominidae consists of orangutans, gorillas, common chimpanzees, bonobos and humans.[1][2] Alternatively, the hominidae family are collectively described as the great apes."

      Intelligence varies between and among these groups. Mine measures fairly high. You?

      September 27, 2011 at 6:10 pm |
    • Here Ya Go

      marie h,

      p.s. Re: Theory of Relativity being disproved (one of an umpty-ump number articles that you can google):


      September 27, 2011 at 6:20 pm |

      i see a lot of opinions and hardly any facts

      mostly opinions from the christians

      first and foremost the bible has little to do with any facts whatsoever

      maybe some archeological sites but thats about it

      as for the creation myth you need to check your bibles

      the myth is done twice and each false story is different

      so we know that the creation myth isnt real not to mention the universe was not created in just 6000 years as the bible professes

      the beauty of science is that science will gladly say it is wrong when the evidence proves it wrong

      christianity blatantly ignores facts when they are presented because it is ignorant

      science will take new information and work with it

      christianity will ignore factual information and pretend it does not exist

      oh no the theory of relativity may be wrong

      the world is going to end and atheists will run and hide


      sorry to inform you christians

      but the world goes on and science will find new ways of figuring out how things work because thats what science does

      while christianity is willing to throw its useless hands in the air

      and proclaim

      god does it all so i can just be stupid and not have to think about how any of it works

      you christians trying to sound intellectual would do yourselves a favor by reading your bibles and seeing the lies in it for yourselves

      instead of believing what your pastor tells you to believe

      to the child who claims evolution isnt real

      you really need to pull your head out

      evolution begins by learning and adapting

      biology follows

      dont believe me then read up on the j a p a n e s e macaque or snow monkey

      its evolution in progress

      it migrated about 500000 years ago long before your god allegedly created the universe

      im sure the monkeys were quite shocked when the universe began to appear in front of it as it was crossing ice caps into j a p a n

      September 27, 2011 at 7:08 pm |

      marie thinks hes educated

      ever heard of dna testing

      didnt think so

      September 27, 2011 at 7:09 pm |
    • John Richardson

      @marieh Why can't you simply admit that you believe what some significant authority figure or figures in your life told you to believe and that everything you have posted is just wacked post hoc, arms waving rationalization of some of the most tired BS in the history of human thought? Go ahead. Do it! It's liberating!

      September 27, 2011 at 7:19 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      @John Richardson- That was quite rude John. I expect such behavior from TBN but you should be a little better than that. I hope I wasn't mistaken.

      September 28, 2011 at 1:58 pm |
    • John Richardson

      @uncouth Rude? When people write things like "et this the big bang happened not the way some christians explain and certainly not the way some educated fools think. in the beginning god said let their be light...", it's time to be frank. And besides, it's true. Most people believe what they do because they were told to by people they respected, rightly or wrongly, when they were too young and far too timid to question. Once you realize that a lot of the belief baggage you carry around with you is due to early exposure to certainties spouted by people more powerful than you that you encountered in child and that these people didn't necessarily have any idea at all which way was really up, you can let a lot of that baggage go and it IS truly liberating.

      September 28, 2011 at 2:05 pm |
    • Uncouth Swain

      "Most people believe what they do because they were told to by people they respected, rightly or wrongly, when they were too young and far too timid to question. Once you realize that a lot of the belief baggage you carry around with you is due to early exposure to certainties spouted by people more powerful than you that you encountered in child and that these people didn't necessarily have any idea at all which way was really up, you can let a lot of that baggage go and it IS truly liberating."

      Well, you shouldn't let other ppl's behavior dictate how you act though.
      I agree with the first part you said but for some reason when I apply that toward atheists, they get all mad and such. I think there are many ppl out there that believe in global warming who have no real understanding of the science behind it. No more than many Christians out there that don't know the differences from the Codex Sinaitus and todays modern texts.

      I could also say that those who were never religious can have the same liberating feeling when they open themselves up to faith.

      September 28, 2011 at 4:00 pm |
  14. blazinbrazen

    It amazes me how much hate non-believers spew. Without a doubt these are the last days of the age of men...Hey haters, do you ever wonder why early man would write of these things? or draw these things? They must of seen them in order to draw them and write about them. Way back when men did things for a reason, not out of entertainment's sake. Soon you will all see when the Son of Man comes and takes His Elect with Him. What will you do then, because you surely will be too afraid to throw a party...

    September 27, 2011 at 2:49 pm |
    • My God's Bigger Than Yours

      It's not hate, it's frustration. Also, thanks for the condemnation at the end there– I'm sure Jesus would be proud to know how little FAITH you have in his ability to reach us all before it's too late.

      September 27, 2011 at 2:53 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      @ blazinbrazen

      Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."

      Why blazinbrazen would our savior and redeemer of peoples' lost souls ever want to come back to a kingdom that He himself did say was not His?

      September 27, 2011 at 2:57 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      @ blazinbrazen

      Have Fiath blazinbrazen,,,,, for in Luk 17:21 is written, "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is inside/within you."

      Once we are deadened to this world's perspectives, we are whirled deep into the depths of our body which is acclaimed by the Gospel to be "buildings" and "temples" for it is written in, 1Cr 3:9 “For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.”and likewise written in, 1Cr 3:16 "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

      What happens to our body/building/ temple or Kingdom of God should not bring to one any fear. It is only after being deadened we ent into the Kingdom of our body's Godhead to be judged and given a new earth within a new heaven within the firmaments of our earthly heavens within our Earthen'd Heaven. Gaia, our Earth is a wmoan of high regards and it is within her fleshly firmaments that lay too many heavens to count.

      September 27, 2011 at 3:20 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      found a typo,,,, 🙁

      What happens to our body/building/ temple or Kingdom of God should not bring to one any fear. It is only after being deadened we enter into the Kingdom of our body's Godhead to be judged and given a new earth within a new heaven within the firmaments of our earthly heavens within our Earthen'd Heaven. Gaia, our Earth is a wmoan of high regards and it is within her fleshly firmaments that lay too many heavens to count

      September 27, 2011 at 3:48 pm |
    • Fred1

      So everything early man wrote about must be true and they must have seen it. All the myths, legends, stories and folk lore. Thank god I didn’t get your brain (or whatever it is you use for one)

      September 27, 2011 at 6:14 pm |
    • John Richardson

      @blazin Soearly man only wrote of things he saw and which were therefore true? By that reasoning, all the myths of all the different ancient peoples must have been true! Good one!

      September 27, 2011 at 7:22 pm |
  15. Richard S Kaiser

    GOD is real. HE is the summation of the Wholeness of the Celestial Cosmos wherein our universe is but one of innumerable universes too many to count and HIS Holy Spirit is the Sea or Ocean of Nothingness whereof we call it Outer Space.

    September 27, 2011 at 2:45 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      GOD's Sons are real. The King of God's Sons from the very beginning of moments was King of all GOD's Sons and He did eventually become a man we know of as being Christ Jesus, our people's Lord and Redeemer of all lost souls.

      September 27, 2011 at 2:50 pm |
    • Cheech

      God's weed is REAL and Good!!

      September 27, 2011 at 3:43 pm |
    • Richard S Kaiser

      @ Cheech

      Blunts or a fine cigar does wonders to the mind!!!!!!

      Chong, an By The Way,,,, Dave's not here,,,,,,,,,,, 🙂

      September 27, 2011 at 5:10 pm |
  16. George

    I sure hope they have interpretations because most people aren't going to be able to understand that gibberish.

    September 27, 2011 at 2:33 pm |
    • Truth

      So I guess you didn't read the article.

      September 27, 2011 at 2:42 pm |
  17. Jerry

    Great! A whole new slew of character names for World of Warcraft. Bet Ephraim isn't taken yet.

    September 27, 2011 at 2:29 pm |
  18. Jason

    They found Larry King's diary? Cool!!

    September 27, 2011 at 2:26 pm |
  19. JoeProfet

    You either believe or not. The rhetoric of an atheist is foolish to the Christian and vice versa. So, Christians stop trying to use something that atheist cannot comprehend as a basis to "prove" the existance of God. It hurts the brain arguing over it. I have no qualms with atheist because they inspire Christians to test your faith. Yes, you have to defend your faith and more times than not, just quoting scripture doesn't do it. I don't know what it would take to give an atheist the objective evidence they are looking for as positive proof that God exists. I know that I as a Christian don't have the means to provide them with any proof whatsoever. I also know that my faith is strengthened each time I am faced with that challenge because you know as a Christian that your own convincing evidence, whatever it may be, stands on its own in your own heart! Like Morpheous said in The Matix Reloaded, "My belief does not require you to believe!" That is so true if you have a strong conviction of Christ in your heart. Now, your and my actions as a Christian are the ONLY thing that an atheist can observe (scientifically speaking). That said, it is no wonder they don't believe in God because look at how many (not all) Christians act poorly... They [atheist] have a point about some of what they are questioning. My only answer to that is, each Christian is [should be] an individual who is responsible for his/her own soul's salvation. You should and can challenge scripture as God wants you to. The truth stands completely and entirely on its own and reveals itself to those that earnestly seek it.

    September 27, 2011 at 2:24 pm |
    • George

      The atheist errs in saying there is no god because it is the same as saying there is no life, no death, no universe. These are the elements of god, all right before your eyes and permeating all you are. God is only a sound used by man to put a label on it all.

      September 27, 2011 at 2:32 pm |
    • Phil

      What would it take to turn an atheist? PROOF of god...not some old story or the prayers of many. Undeniable evidence...which just doesn't exist and will never exist.

      It is stated in the bible that you can pray (about anything) and your prayers will be answered, no questions asked. Yet the prayers of billions goes unanswered every second of every day.

      Show me evidence...don't quote things from the bible and say "your eyes are so complex, only god could have created that"...because that one is just wrong. Our eyes are not the most complex in nature. They're mid grade... Owls have better eyes than we do...does that mean god loved them more than his own children?

      Didn't think so.

      September 27, 2011 at 2:38 pm |
    • Juggernaught

      Phil, Because you didn't like the answer doesn't mean it wasn't answered...

      September 27, 2011 at 2:44 pm |
    • Truth

      "..for it is by grace you have been saved, through FAITH..."

      September 27, 2011 at 2:45 pm |
    • My God's Bigger Than Yours

      First of all, thank you for bringing to light yet another correlation between Christianity and the Matrix. I feel like I'm on the way to enlightenment already. Second, let's look at this logically. IF these things are true: (1) Not accepting Christ as your savior condemns you to an eternity of tormenting hellfire AND (2) God loves you more than you can comprehend– more than a mother loves her child AND (3) God, who supposedly created you, knows you so well that he even knows the number of hairs on your head THEN it would only make sense that (1) God would do ANYTHING in his power, loving you as he does, to keep you OUT of hell (meaning, proving his existence to you) AND (2) He would know EXACTLY how to get through to you, no matter how atheistic and logical and scientific you are– HE knows you well enough to know what it would take to get through to you. So the question remains– WHY DOESN'T HE? Why I don't I get a giant finger from the sky writing "GOD EXISTS" in front of me on the pavement. I'll give you three guesses. Take your time– I'm watching the Matrix.

      September 27, 2011 at 2:47 pm |
    • Cow

      Right! Proof! If God came down in the form of a human at some points in history.......Well if God performed hundreds of miracles that were foretold generations before and had many witnesses of such miracles.......Well if God's actions were recorded by multiple secular historians as well as religious......If He rose from the dead.....

      September 27, 2011 at 3:02 pm |
    • JoeProfet

      @My God's Bigger Than Yours, I like the Matix series, very cool. Hey well, you know how you feel about God, so there is no reason to try and convince you otherwise. As The Merovingian said, "there is cause and effect!" You cause yourself to deny God, and in effect for you He doesn't exist! Just kidding! The Bible only tells you how the Matrix [Universe] as created by God, works. You can accept it or reject it. You can spin your wheels trying to reveal its complexity, and if you know much about science, we are way the hell behind the curve on much of anything scientifically. We can't even prevent the common cold! We can't even feed all of the people that are starving. You might blame God for that, but I blame mankind for that. We have the means ourselves to accomplish this, so why not? Is it because we are spending our time splitting atoms just because we figured out how to? And, what did we do with all that scientific discovery, we murded hundreds of thousands of people with that wonderful scientific discovery called the atomic bomb!!! Anyway, I'll pray for you bud!

      September 27, 2011 at 3:21 pm |
    • John Richardson

      George, that was a just plain silly thing to say. Go to your room.

      September 27, 2011 at 3:42 pm |
    • chad

      Well said JoeProfet, but I do think that God can be proved:

      Romans1:19: "since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

      which is always my argument with respect to the origin of the universe and the nature of the development of life on earth as reflected in the fossil record. Neither can be explained with out God.

      September 27, 2011 at 4:07 pm |
    • Phil

      Wrong. It is not through grace that I have been saved. There is nothing to save.

      When people had problems in the past such as epilepsy, people thought demons had possessed them. All sorts of mental problems - demons, satin etc... Today, SCIENCE has proven otherwise. Science has put so many things to rest regarding religion.

      You see, it's only a matter of time before science can (and will) prove there is no god.

      Those with faith are sheep, blindingly following around a shepherd who doesn't exist. It's a nice heart warming story, but that's all it is.

      Religion has started more wars and killed more people than anything else on this planet. Religion and cults are both the same...they vary somewhat - but overall, it's power and control. Teach them while they're young and can't question things. Tell them stories about hell and how they'll burn forever if they fall off the path. <– That's child abuse to some degree. Scaring people into believing something is abuse. That's all religion has ever done. Scare people...because some magical, invisible sky daddy is watching them....and will strike them down if they use his name in vain. Well...I'm still here. So are countless billions of people who say things everyday.

      god was created by man...not god created man. It's a brilliant con that has lasted thousands of years.

      Atheist = question everything
      Christian = christian everything

      September 27, 2011 at 4:56 pm |
    • Phil

      *satin = satan

      September 27, 2011 at 4:58 pm |
    • Hmmm......

      @Phil...so if science is the cure for religion, what is the cure for science? How do you explain the ability to be able to do the thngs we do? Call it crazy call it what you will, but without God there is no science. I say this because we were given these gifts of knowledge and the ability to adapt and disvocer and yes, dare I say it evolve by who else, yes God. It is not anything sceince can explain, it is not anything man can explain. As time went by, we changed, our brians grew and technology and everything else can be explained by science, but how do yuo explain science? You can't, there is no logical explanation to science or all else man made, excpet that we had help and have been steered in the right direction by the Hand of God. My opinion is you can't have one without the other. Call me crazy, but I believe in God and science and I am not an idiot, regardless of what you may say or think!

      September 27, 2011 at 5:34 pm |
    • chad

      Phil, your statement that "Religion has started more wars and killed more people than anything else on this planet"
      is just completely false, I dont know why you repeat it endlessly.

      Wars started by religion 7% of total (partial list, add yours):
      The Crusades.
      The French Wars of Religion
      The Thirty Years War.
      The Reconquista.
      The Troubles (N.Ireland).
      In their Encyclopedia of Wars,[2] authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod attempt a comprehensive listing of wars in history. They doc ument 1763 wars overall, of which 123 (7%) have been cl*ssified to involve a religious conflict.

      Wars not started by religion 93% of total (partial list, add yours):
      60,000,000–72,000,000 – World War II (1939–1945)
      36,000,000 – An Shi Rebellion (China, 755–763)[3]
      30,000,000–60,000,000 – Mongol Conquests (13th century) (see Mongol invasions and Tatar invasions)[4][5][6][7]
      25,000,000 – Qing dynasty conquest of Ming dynasty (1616–1662)[8]
      20,000,000 – World War I (1914–1918) (see World War I casualties)[9]
      20,000,000 – Taiping Rebellion (China, 1850–1864) (see Dungan revolt)[10]
      20,000,000 – Second Sino-Ja panese War (1937–1945)[11]
      10,000,000 – Warring States Era (China, 475 BC–221 BC)
      8,000,000–12,000,000 – Dungan revolt (China, 1862 –1877)
      7,000,000 – 20,000,000 Conquests of Tamerlane (1370–1405)[12][13]
      5,000,000–9,000,000 – Russian Civil War and Foreign Intervention (1917–1922)[14]
      5,000,000 – Conquests of Menelik II of Ethiopia (1882–1898)[15][16]
      3,800,000 – 5,400,000 – Second Congo War (1998–2003)[17][18][19]
      3,500,000–6,000,000 – Napoleonic Wars (1803–1815) (see Napoleonic Wars casualties)
      3,000,000–7,000,000 – Yellow Turban Rebellion (China, 184–205)
      2,500,000–3,500,000 – Korean War (1950–1953)
      2,300,000–3,800,000 – Vietnam War (entire war 1945–1975)

      September 27, 2011 at 5:49 pm |
  20. mmp

    Those without faith cannot understand faith. Pity. Whether you are religious or not, this is exciting historically.

    September 27, 2011 at 2:23 pm |
    • Phil

      I HAD faith at one point until I was in my late teens. Then it all became blindingly obvious that everything was a lie...and now I'm a very happy atheist.

      But you're right - historically, this is a great thing.

      September 27, 2011 at 2:34 pm |
    • My God's Bigger Than Yours

      Phil– ditto. BLINDINGLY obvious. I'm not an atheist, however–my logical consciousness cannot reconcile its own nonexistence, so I have come to trust my own personal instincts with regard to the nature of my existence (something along what's suggested in Seth Speaks, if you ever get a chance to read it–VERY interesting. Deepak Chopra is a big fan). But I cannot fathom how ANYONE who had actually delved into the logical discrepancies of Christianity could pinpoint that faith (or any other organized religion for that matter) as being at all accurate. It's lunacy. Mass lunacy.

      September 27, 2011 at 5:00 pm |
    • Arjun

      Can you open our eyes too by telling us how it became so obvious that it is a lie? Don't say that because something is not right everything not right. Even in the science that does't work that way. I agree that someone forcing others to accept everything as true statement is wrong. At the same time other extreme, to take everything as false is not good either.

      So many people dedicated their entire life it. So it makes sense to think little bit positively about what drives them. The scriptures should be taken as a guidence in spiritual knowledge.

      September 27, 2011 at 5:11 pm |
    • Phil

      @ Arjun

      Lack of proof. Contradictions in the bible. In general - things not making sense. I'm a highly analytical, critical and logical thinker. It defies all logic. I need facts and proof. I rely on those things to make judgements about things. AND the church kept asking for 20% of my salary. Why should I give some organization $40,000 a year and on top of that expect to spend another $15,000 a year for my kid's education? No...enough is enough. Public school is better and besides, my son is an atheist too. My wife is Catholic.

      My brother was a benedictine monk. He was for many years before leaving the monastary. He believed in god for a long time before coming to the realization that none of it made sense...then like 20 years later, shot him self in the head right in front of our parents...which had nothing to do with being agnostic or atheist. He was severely depressed and alcohol didn't help things whatsoever.

      I know faith makes people feel comfortable. In a sense, it calms them. They believe that one day, they'll go to heaven and be together with their loved ones.

      I simply don't believe that. To me, as an atheist, it does not bother me that I won't see my loved ones when I die. You die, and that's it - you're dead. There is no life afterwards. Who would want to live for ETERNITY and ETERNITY after that...and ETERNITY after that? That would be a curse.

      Atheists are not bad, evil or misguided people. We don't hate god. We simply do not believe in god. If god is real, then god needs to show himself...that would help tremendously - but that will never happen.

      god has a problem with vanity. The first three of the ten commandments are about him. They say god won't reveal himself. Why not? Afraid? Don't challenge god. Why not? What will he do? Strike me down? Hasn't happened. Sounds like a con. I'll create this magical all powerful being - but don't ask him to show himself, because it makes him angry........and he won't do it.

      Honestly, it sounds stupid.

      Imagine this for a minute. There is NO religion in the world. No one ever thought about the idea of god. Along comes this guy who claims he hears this voice, telling him to guide and help people. He claims to have seen this god, but can't show you what he saw. He tells you stories about how he's witnessed miracles and watched people get healed. But no one else saw it...or perhaps only a select handful of people did...whatever...

      Would you believe this person in today's world? No, you wouldn't. You'd think this guy was delusional and had severe mental problems and you'd go on about your day never again thinking about this nut job you just met.

      Seriously - give that some thought.

      September 27, 2011 at 7:59 pm |
    • Anon

      The supposed sacred scriptures are better off taken as obvious mythology and a cultural artifact of primitive minded humans.

      September 27, 2011 at 8:01 pm |
    • Fred1

      So I have to believe in UFOs before I can see them?

      September 27, 2011 at 8:02 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.