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October 9th, 2011
07:42 PM ET

My Take: This evangelical says Mormonism isn’t a cult

Editor’s note: Richard J. Mouw is President of Fuller Theological Seminary, an evangelical school in Pasadena, California.

By Richard J. Mouw, Special to CNN

Some prominent evangelical pastors have been telling their constituents not to support Mitt Romney’s bid for the presidential nomination. Because Romney is Mormon, they say, to cast a vote for him is to promote the cause of a cult.

I beg to differ.

For the past dozen years, I’ve been co-chairing, with Professor Robert Millet of Brigham Young University – the respected Mormon school - a behind-closed-doors dialogue between about a dozen evangelicals and an equal number of our Mormon counterparts.

We have talked for many hours about key theological issues: the authority of the Bible, the person and work of Christ, the Trinity, “continuing revelations” and the career of Joseph Smith, the 19th century founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), better known as the Mormon Church.

We evangelicals and our Mormon counterparts disagree about some important theological questions. But we have also found that on some matters we are not as far apart as we thought we were.

I know cults. I have studied them and taught about them for a long time. It’s worth noting that people have wondered whether I belong to a cult, with a reporter once asking me: “Evangelicalism, is that like Scientology and Hare Krishna?”

Religious cults are very much us-versus-them. Their adherents are taught to think that they are the only ones who benefit from divine approval. They don’t like to engage in serious, respectful give-and-take dialogue with people with whom they disagree.

Nor do they promote the kind of scholarship that works alongside others in pursuing the truth. Jehovah’s Witnesses, for instance, haven’t established a university. They don’t sponsor a law school or offer graduate-level courses in world religions. The same goes for Christian Science. If you want to call those groups cults I will not argue with you.

But Brigham Young University is a world-class educational institution, with professors who’ve earned doctorates from some of the best universities in the world. Several of the top leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have PhDs from Ivy League schools.

These folks talk admiringly of the evangelical Billy Graham and the Catholic Mother Teresa, and they enjoy reading the evangelical C.S. Lewis and Father Henri Nouwen, a Catholic. That is not the kind of thing you run into in anti-Christian cults.

So are Mormons Christians? For me, that’s a complicated question.

My Mormon friends and I disagree on enough subjects that I am not prepared to say that their theology falls within the scope of historic Christian teaching. But the important thing is that we continue to talk about these things, and with increasing candor and mutual openness to correction.

No one has shown any impulse to walk away from the table of dialogue. We do all of this with the blessing of many leaders from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, some of whom have become good friends.

While I am not prepared to reclassify Mormonism as possessing undeniably Christian theology, I do accept many of my Mormon friends as genuine followers of the Jesus whom I worship as the divine Savior.

I find Mormons to be more Christ-centered than they have been in the past. I recently showed a video to my evangelical Fuller Seminary students of Mormon Elder Jeffrey Holland, one of the Twelve Apostles who help lead the LDS church. The video captures Holland speaking to thousands of Mormons about Christ’s death on the cross.

Several of my students remarked that if they had not known that he was a Mormon leader they would have guessed that he was an evangelical preacher.

The current criticisms of Mitt Romney’s religious affiliation recall for many of us the challenges John Kennedy faced when he was campaigning for the presidency in 1960.

Some well-known Protestant preachers (including Norman Vincent Peale) warned against putting a Catholic in the White House. Kennedy’s famous speech to Houston pastors clarifying his religious beliefs as they related to his political leadership helped his cause quite a bit.

But the real changes in popular attitudes toward Catholicism happened more slowly, as Catholic Church leaders and scholars engaged in a new kind of dialogue with each other and representatives of other faith groups, most dramatically at the Second Vatican Council during the early years of the 1960s.

Cults do not engage in those kinds of self-examining conversations. If they do, they do not remain cults.

Those of us who have made the effort to engage Mormons in friendly and sustained give-and-take conversations have come to see them as good citizens whose life of faith often exhibits qualities that are worthy of the Christian label, even as we continue to engage in friendly arguments with them about crucial theological issues.

Mitt Romney deserves what every politician running for office deserves: a careful examination of his views on policy and his philosophy of government. But he does not deserve to be labeled a cultist.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Richard J. Mouw.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Christianity • Cults • Mitt Romney • Politics • Rick Perry

soundoff (2,721 Responses)
  1. Jake

    Why are you guys all so rude to us mormons on here? All we're trying to do is defend our faith, we're not trying to convert anyone, we're just trying to clarify what some know-it-all, who actually knows nothing of our church, said on here. If you really truely want to know about our faith visit mormon.org or lds.org for the truth of our church. Otherwise, stop saying stuff about us that isnt true and just confusing everyone else. You don't see us calling your churches "of the devil", we believe in a lot of what catholics, baptists, and other christian churches teach, just not all of it.

    October 11, 2011 at 6:28 pm |
    • Zowie

      Mormons don't try to convert anyone?
      Bwahahahahahahahaha!

      October 11, 2011 at 8:21 pm |
    • silas

      i don't want to be disrespectful or mean...but i personally believe Mormonism is a comically bizarre fabrication written by a man jailed for fraudulent sales practices BEFORE he came up with the idea that black people are not human and natives are really jews. (read an old version of your scripture...it's all in there). I am personally offended by your faith because it co-opted my faith for Mr. Smith's own selfish profits

      October 11, 2011 at 11:00 pm |
    • Jake

      I meant we're not trying to convert anyone on this blog, and I'm sorry you feel this way about our church, but none of it is true. visit mormon.org or lds.org to clarify our church history

      October 16, 2011 at 7:19 pm |
  2. Dwight Rogers

    Apples2Cider says:
    “Do the Mormons believe that as sinners, the ONLY way to redemption is to accept the blood of the lamb as a sacrifice for their sins and that there is no other ways of redemption?”

    Peter says:
    “mormonism doesnt teach that through christ you can get to heaven”

    Yes, those things are exactly what we Mormons believe. That's what the Bible AND the Book of Mormon teach. Just this past Sunday I taught in the Mornon Church from an official lesson manual of the Church which included the following from the Bible:

    Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
    1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    Rom. 3:27-28
    27 Where is aboasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
    28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by bfaith cwithout the deeds of the law.

    And included the following from theBook of Mormon:

    Alma 22:14
    14 And since man had afallen he could not bmerit anything of himself; but the sufferings and cdeath of Christ datone for their sins, through faith and repentance....

    2 Ne 25:23
    23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

    The central belief of Mormons is that Christ came into the world as the Son of God. He healed the sick, caused the lame to walk, the blind to see, the deaf to hear, and restored life to the dead. He commissioned twelve Apostles to whom he gave authority. He suffered in Gethsemane, died on the cross, and was resurrected and will come again. He, and only He, provides the means for us to be washed clean in his blood from our sins, which sins we can never correct on our own or through our own works. If that is not Christian I don’t know what is.

    Would you go to the Ku Klux Klan to learn about racial equality? Would you go to Hitler to learn about treating Jews fairly? Would you go to the Bible to learn about Christ and read only what the Scribes and Pharisees said while neglecting to read what Jesus and the Apostles taught? I recommend that if you want to know about the real teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later-day Saints (Mormons) you should go to Mormon sources like Mormon.org and LDS.org and to the material published by the Church. “Experts” like Apples2Cider and Peter who commented in this blog, are experts in sifting through Mormon history and teachings so they can ignore everything but what they cherry pick and take out of context.

    Find out for yourself what Mormons believe and then decide for yourself but don’t learn it from the enemies of Mormonism.

    Dwight

    October 11, 2011 at 6:13 pm |
  3. myklds

    LDS Church members don't worship Joseph Smith but revere him.

    October 11, 2011 at 5:50 pm |
  4. Mark

    Sircuts, for some one who is supposely smart you sure are rather backward in your choice of "credable" references. Wikopedia is about the last place I would ever go to for reliable information. The main problem is that anyone can enter information there as the truth when it is far from it. There is so much misinformation on W. that I'm surprised some one of your suppose intelligence is even acknowleging it as a credable source fo information.

    October 11, 2011 at 3:11 pm |
  5. Redneck Bubba

    Sircuts is a child molestor and anyone who reads his words and believes them or believes the same things he does is obviously a child molestor too or they would change their beliefs.

    If you want to see the proof, I have exactly the same amount and quality of proof that he has for his claims.

    October 11, 2011 at 12:19 pm |
  6. lydia

    If any of you were living in Germany, where the public supports the church with taxes, and where seperation of church and state is not as well defined as it is in the US....... Most of you would belong to a cult. Germany has the Lutheran protestant and the Roman catholics everything else is weird and cultish. Having said that, as an atheist being raised in germany and living in the US, all religions are weird and cultish. Any adult that believes these fairy tales and then dismisses all the other fairly tales as a cult is not a reasonable person.

    October 11, 2011 at 11:43 am |
    • StandforTruth

      When you are starving to death in the next couple of years if that long and watching your friends and family and children if you have any starve, then maybe you will look to your Creator. Take a look at the world news honey. We all better start believing in God Almighty cause the chaos we have created won't go on forever. You're an atheist because you are afraid of the truth. If not then take a challenge and read the book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation and compare it to your world news. Research the Bibles accuracy and then you will know truth unless you want to continue to live in your little lala fairtale world of happy endings. There are things going on other than in your little selfish world. Check it out you may just be surprised how shallow you are.

      October 11, 2011 at 11:50 am |
    • hippypoet

      @STANDFORTRUTH – HAHAHAHAHA, MAY THE AMIGHTY SUN SHINE UPON YOU AND RELEASE YOUR IGNORANCE SO YOU MAY BE TRUE TO YOUR NAME!

      October 11, 2011 at 11:53 am |
    • StandforTruth

      hippypoet
      @STANDFORTRUTH – HAHAHAHAHA, MAY THE AMIGHTY SUN SHINE UPON YOU AND RELEASE YOUR IGNORANCE SO YOU MAY BE TRUE TO YOUR NAME! The almighty Son does shine on me, his name is Jesus Christ and he loves you even in your ignorance. May you find truth instead of your meaningless Godless existance.

      October 11, 2011 at 11:56 am |
    • hippypoet

      lol, come on man, one who doesn't even know the real name of there savior should hold there tongue! dudes name was Joshua. look it up. And I said SUN, but thats ok, i don't expect any follower to be able to read, as a general rule, the dumber your follower the better control one has over them!

      October 11, 2011 at 12:10 pm |
    • hippypoet

      oh yeah, and christ is a t!itle not a name, but again, one who has trouble reading would be expected to make such mistakes. 🙂

      October 11, 2011 at 12:15 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      hippiepoet....That's the great thing about HIM he accepts us as imperfect as we are. It's funny to watch an atheist think he can upset a believer and think he has control over anything in a believers life. It don't happen.

      October 11, 2011 at 1:02 pm |
    • hippypoet

      LOL, oh too good. You know that your god created us in his image correct? well, if thats so then your god is imperfect and by the definition of god, your "god" is no such thing! Now, you again prove your enablity to read properly, its spelt hippypoet, but again i expected no less from a TRUE follower. I never said I have control over you or anything, I was referring to the cult leader – your god. Again, the expectation of your skills at reading and understanding what was just read is as low as always.

      But for your sake, i will be as simple as possible – why is there no other possible gods then yours. And what makes your god better then the others?

      October 11, 2011 at 1:22 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      hippypoet
      He said he created you in his image, he didn't say he made you a God. Spelt is not a word, just saying. You atheists sure to get upset over someone you supposedly don't believe in. It's okay, He believes in you and He still loves you.

      But for your sake, i will be as simple as possible – why is there no other possible gods then yours. And what makes your god better then the others?

      October 11, 2011 at 1:28 pm |
    • Duh

      "You're an atheist because you are afraid of the truth."

      LOL! No moron, it's because we know the truth in the bible is bogus, made up by men who couldn't explain things around them so they called it a god. You're assumption is that none of us have read or studied the bible but many of us posting have in detail. Many of us are former christians like you till we saw the light and freed ourselves from the shackles of your cult.

      October 11, 2011 at 1:39 pm |
    • BRC

      @Stand,
      Hippypoet is probably out praying to his god for patience and a tan for the moment, so I'll help out for a second.

      Spelt is a word, it is both a type of wheat, and a past tense form of the word spell (you're obviously using the internet, how hard would it have been to look that up?).

      You repasted Hippy's question, but I noticed you didn't even attempt to answer it. Did you just forget, or were you doing the whole "quasi-philosophically" reverse the question thing?

      October 11, 2011 at 1:40 pm |
    • hippypoet

      LOL, yes i was out getting ALMIGHTY SUN BLOCK. my true provider of things and giver of life has a very power reach!

      October 11, 2011 at 1:45 pm |
    • Hear This

      StandforTruth: "read the book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation and compare it to your world news."

      IF *anything* earthly that is "prophesied" in those books actually happens, it will be because insane believers make it so. And the sci-fi/ horror / fantasy parts - enjoy your shivvers, folks.

      October 11, 2011 at 1:50 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      Because there is no proof of another real God. The Bible has never been proven false by science and has been 100% accurate in prophecy. Show me another god who has that track record. Thanks for the spelling lesson. Never was much of a speller.

      October 11, 2011 at 1:50 pm |
    • Duh

      "The Bible has never been proven false by science and has been 100% accurate in prophecy. "

      Nostradamus was pretty accurate so you should worship him too. Plus you must no know that many of the stories in the bible including the story of jesus was stolen from other pagan religions of that time period.

      October 11, 2011 at 1:53 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      Hear This......May just want to check out today'w worldwide headlines instead of blogging about something you haven't looked into. The shivers are yet to come.

      October 11, 2011 at 1:55 pm |
    • hippypoet

      dude, if you suck at spelling don't correct others as a scheme to move past the topic. its sad. And the answer for your question, look up, do you see the SUN, its a powerful, life giving creation that without would be no creation on this planet. I don't state it made us as a species, thats arrogance, I do say that without it we will die, as well as most other living creatures on this planets. Once most are dead, the rest will die as they are a part of the dead circle of life. OH and sciencificly speaking a lack of evidence or proof is evidence of lack of existence.

      October 11, 2011 at 1:56 pm |
    • Duh

      "May just want to check out today'w worldwide headlines instead of blogging about something you haven't looked into. The shivers are yet to come."

      You realize every generation of chrisians have said the same thing over and over again but history just keeps moving along proving you all wrong.

      October 11, 2011 at 1:56 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      hippypoet
      LOL, yes i was out getting ALMIGHTY SUN BLOCK. my true provider of things and giver of life has a very power reach!
      Stock up!
      The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was given power to scorch people with fire.

      October 11, 2011 at 1:58 pm |
    • Hear This

      StandforTruth:
      "The Bible is the only book that has 100% prophetic accuracy. It has never been proven historically inaccurate or scientifically inaccurate."

      Poppyco.ck! You parrot that like a freakin' mantra. I dare you and challenge you to investigate:
      http://www.bidstrup.com/bible2.htm

      October 11, 2011 at 1:58 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      Duh

      Nostradamus was pretty accurate... Pretty accurate don't cut it. And what religion would that be? According to you even the Pagans new Him. Odd for someone who was a lie.

      October 11, 2011 at 2:02 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      hippypoet
      Spelling won't save my soul so oh well. And God said, "Let there be light and there was light." God gives life, not the sun. Wrong again. But it's great to see that you believe in creation, that a good step for you! The lack of evidence is on the part of evolution. The fossil record doesn't even support it, and it was just discovered that all man can be traced back to one original father and all women to one original mother. You know "adam and eve."

      October 11, 2011 at 2:09 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      Duh...You realize every generation of chrisians have said the same thing over and over again but history just keeps moving along proving you all wrong.
      Yes, every generation even before the Birth of Jesus Christ. And it is moving right along with 100% accuracy according to the Word of God. He hasn't missed one thing, not one, ever! And the next event on the schedule is the rapture of the Church. Would love it if you were all a part of it, would love to meet you face to face there! You guys are fun!

      October 11, 2011 at 2:13 pm |
    • hippypoet

      oh really, creationism was just proven correct? LOL, sure, i'm buy that when i see it for myself. As for the fossil record, yes it does, there is plenty of EVIDENCE but little proof to lead smarter then you type people to believe in evolution. We can trace all dogs back to one species called the Grey wolf, EVIDENCE OF EVOLUTION!

      October 11, 2011 at 2:14 pm |
    • Duh

      "According to you even the Pagans new Him. Odd for someone who was a lie."

      Yes, it was a lie created by men just like Zeus, Apollo and all the other gods that have been and are to come from the imagination of men. Oh, I forgot we are now the consciousness of the universe now being aware of itself. 😉

      October 11, 2011 at 2:14 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      Hear This...Poppyco.ck! You parrot that like a freakin' mantra. I dare you and challenge you to investigate:
      I have a million times and could never prove it wrong in not even one instance. Don't redirect me. Post your poison and I'll take your challenge.

      October 11, 2011 at 2:16 pm |
    • hippypoet

      prove to me and everyone else that one creationism was prove correct! that one i got to see! and 2 prove your god exists! there, you have been challenged.

      we are but ants to our planet, and out planet is but an ant of its own to the space around it. Once one comes to terms with this and doesn't try to explain it away thru a made up belief system true understanding can begin!

      October 11, 2011 at 2:18 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      hippypoet.....oh really, creationism was just proven correct? LOL, sure, i'm buy that when i see it for myself.
      Well don't waste time, see it for yourself, your on the web. Check out the fossil record too cause you are sadly mistaken. One of your ex-atheist scientist was on the tube just a few days ago giving all the details of why he can't be an atheist anymore because science proves creationism. What did you come from then?

      October 11, 2011 at 2:21 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      Well don't waste time, see it for yourself, your on the web. Check out the fossil record too cause you are sadly mistaken. One of your ex-atheist scientist was on the tube just a few days ago giving all the details of why he can't be an atheist anymore because science proves creationism. What did you come from then?

      October 11, 2011 at 2:22 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      Duh...Then why are they over in the middle east digging up artifacts right now that prove you wrong? Never seen that with Zeus or Apollo? Never saw a book about Zeus and Apollo that is 100% accurate in prediction of history 2 thousand years later. men. "Oh, I forgot we are now the consciousness of the universe now being aware of itself." Where did that come from? I'm talking about a personal relationship with OUR SAVIOUR.

      October 11, 2011 at 2:27 pm |
    • hippypoet

      whoa, thats was a very good arguement, i lower my head in shame in the LIGHT of all your proof. moron! you challenge you to come up with answers, and you give a go find it for yourself type answers... i wonder do they teach backwards conversation in catholic schools or do they just r@pe you instead, and you form a @ss backwards lifestyle....very curious indeed!

      October 11, 2011 at 2:27 pm |
    • i wonder

      @StandforTruth - "One of your ex-atheist scientist was on the tube just a few days ago giving all the details of why he can't be an atheist anymore because science proves creationism."

      Who is that?... His name and credentials, please...

      October 11, 2011 at 2:32 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @StandforTruth
      The Second Coming is a Bible prophecy that was not fulfilled.
      Jesus was supposed to be back within 70 years of his death, but is still MIA.
      “Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.”
      —1 John 2:18
      That was 2,000 years ago. We're still waiting.

      "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled"
      – Matthew 24:34
      The biblical definition of a generation can be found in Psalm 90.
      "The years of our lives are 70; and if by reason of strength they be 80 years, yet most of them are labor and sorrow; for life is soon cut off and we fly away."
      26 Psalms 90:10
      This is confirmed in the Gospel of Matthew.
      "Therefore all the generations from Abraham down to David are 14 generations; and from David down to the Babylonian captivity are 14 generations; and from the Babylonian captivity down to messiah, are 14 generations."
      – Matthew 1:17
      Matthew is using the Psalm 90 definitions of Generation in order to tell a specific chronological story.
      Ergo – Matthew expected Jesus to return within 80 years, maximum.
      He didn't – therefore, that Biblical prophecy is wrong.

      October 11, 2011 at 2:32 pm |
    • i wonder

      @StandforTruth - "100% accurate in prediction of history 2 thousand years later."

      Citations please.

      October 11, 2011 at 2:34 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      hippypoet
      prove to me and everyone else that one creationism was prove correct! that one i got to see! and 2 prove your god exists! there, you have been challenged.
      http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

      Start here. Make sure you check out the science page.

      October 11, 2011 at 2:37 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      @ i wonder.......Anthony Flew
      http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/

      October 11, 2011 at 2:41 pm |
    • Real Deal

      StandforTruth,
      "One of your ex-atheist scientist was on the tube just a few days ago giving all the details of why he can't be an atheist anymore because science proves creationism."

      Ah, is that the same "scientist" who "traced all men to one father and all women to one mother just recently." 🙂

      October 11, 2011 at 2:41 pm |
    • Ok'yDok'y

      "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

      God says that if Adam eats from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, then the day that he does so, he will die. But later Adam eats the forbidden fruit (3:6) and yet lives for another 930 years (5:5). 2:17

      As a punishment for killing Abel, God says Cain will be "a fugitive and a vagabond." Yet in just a few verses (4:16-17) Cain will settle down, marry, have a son, and build a city. This is not the activity one would expect from a fugitive and a vagabond. 4:12

      God promises Abram and his descendants all of the land of Canaan. But both history and the bible (Acts 7:5 and Heb.11:13) show that God's promise to Abram was not fulfilled. 13:15, 15:18, 17:8, 28:13-14

      How long was the Egyptian captivity? This verse says 400 years, but Ex.12:40 and Gal.3:17 say 430 years. 15:13

      "In the fourth generation they(Abraham's descendants) shall come hither again." But, if we count Abraham, then their return occurred after seven generations: Abraham, Isaac (Gen.21:1-3), Jacob (Gen.25:19-26), Levi (Gen.35:22-23), Kohath (Ex.6:16), Amramn (Ex.6:18), and Moses (Ex.6:20). 15:16

      God promises Abram's descendants the land of Canaan from the Nile to the Euphrates. But according to Acts 7:5 and Heb.11:13 God's promise to Abram was not fulfilled. 15:18

      God promises to make Isaac's descendents as numerous as "the stars of heaven", which, of course, never happened. The Jews have always been, and will always be, a small minority. 26:4

      God renames Jacob twice (32:28, 35:10 ). God says that Jacob will henceforth be called Israel, but the Bible continues to call him Jacob anyway (47:28-29). And even God himself calls him Jacob in 46:2. 32:28, 35:10

      God calls Jacob Jacob, though he said in Gen.32:28 and 35:10 that he would no longer be called Jacob but Israel. 46:2

      God promises to bring Jacob safely back from Egypt, but Jacob dies in Egypt (Gen.47:28-29) 46:3

      The tribe of Judah will reign "until Shiloh," but Israel's first king (Saul) was from the tribe of Benjamin (Acts 13:21), and most of the time after this prophecy there was no king at all. 49:10

      "He washed his garments in wine ... His eyes shall be red with wine."
      Did Judah really wash his clothes in wine? Were his eyes bloodshot from drinking too much? Or is this a prophecy of Jesus? (I didn't know Jesus had a drinking problem.) 49:11-12

      Contrary to the prophecy in 48:21, Joseph died in Egypt, not Israel. Gen.50:24

      October 11, 2011 at 2:44 pm |
    • hippypoet

      you again tell us to find your answers. it was afterall you who said challenge so now you have been and yet you don't step up. losers are found in all walks of life, here we have you to take the place. YEA for YOU! 🙂

      October 11, 2011 at 2:46 pm |
    • Ok'yDok'y

      Exodus

      God promises to cast out many nations including the Canaanites and the Jebusites. But he was unable to fulfill his promise. 33:2

      In this verse God says he will write on the stone tablets, but in 34:27 he tells Moses to do the writing. 34:1

      Numbers

      "If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will ... speak unto him in a dream." Now there's a reliable way to communicate with someone! 12:6

      Deuteronomy

      God promises to cast out seven nations including the Amorites, Canaanites, and the Jebusites. But he was unable to fulfill his promise. 7:1

      God says that the Israelites will destroy all of the peoples they encounter. But according to Joshua ( 15:63, 16:10, 17:12-13) and Judges (1:21, 27-36, 3:1-5) there were some people they just couldn't kill. 7:24

      Those who do as God says will never be infertile (neither will their cows!) and will never get sick. 7:14-15

      Prophets and dreamers are to be executed if they say or dream the wrong things. 13:1-5

      False prophets are to be (you guessed it) executed. How do you know who is a false prophet? By whether or not their predictions come true. (Watch out Jehovah's Witnesses!) 18:20

      Misquoted in Rom.10:8. 30:14

      God promises to "destroy these nations before thee." That he didn't keep his promise see Jos.15:63, 16:10, Jg.1:21, 1:27-36, and 3:1-5. 31:3-6

      Joshua

      God promises to give Joshua all of the land that his "foot shall tread upon." He says that none of the people he encounters will be able to resist him. But later we find that God didn't keep his promise, and that many tribes withstood Joshua's attempt to steal their land. 1:3-5

      Joshua tells the Israelites that God will "without fail" drive out the Canaanites and the Jebusites. But later, the Bible tells us that he could not drive them out. 3:10

      This verse says that Ai was never again occupied after it was destroyed by Joshua. But Nehemiah (7:32) lists it among the cities of Israel at the time of the Babylonian captivity. 8:28

      God promised the Israelites that he would drive out all the inhabitants of the lands they pass through. But this verse shows that he didn't keep his promise since he couldn't drive out the Jebusites. 15:63

      "And they drave not out the Canaanites." Once again God fails keep his promise to destroy all the people the Israelites encounter. 16:10

      The Israelites, contrary to God's promises to them, could not drive out the Canaanites. 17:12-13

      Joshua tells Manasseh that he will be able to drive out the Canaanites, but it turns out (see Jg.1:27-28) that he couldn't do it. 17:17-18

      According to these verses, God fulfilled his promise to give the Israelites all of the lands that they encountered. But in several places the Bible tells us that these promises were not kept. 21:43-45

      October 11, 2011 at 2:48 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      Doc Vestibule.....
      The Second Coming is a Bible prophecy that was not fulfilled. – Just wait. It is on the way.
      Jesus was supposed to be back within 70 years of his death, but is still MIA. – As taught in the Bible, God's time is not the same as our time. He is not MIA, you will see HIM, every knee will bow.
      “Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.” – This is a self fulfilled prophecy by all of you. But there is one antichrist who will be allowed to rule this world before long.
      —1 John 2:18
      That was 2,000 years ago. We're still waiting. – It's coming. He gives you the signs to watch for and they are all being fulfilled right now. Israel is the timeclock. Read you Bible and watch Israel and It's word for word.

      "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled" – This is the general who see the warning signs that Jesus spoke of. Most possibly our generation.
      – Matthew 24:34
      The biblical definition of a generation can be found in Psalm 90.
      "The years of our lives are 70; and if by reason of strength they be 80 years, yet most of them are labor and sorrow; for life is soon cut off and we fly away." – Like I said our generation.
      26 Psalms 90:10
      This is confirmed in the Gospel of Matthew.
      "Therefore all the generations from Abraham down to David are 14 generations; and from David down to the Babylonian captivity are 14 generations; and from the Babylonian captivity down to messiah, are 14 generations."
      – Matthew 1:17
      Matthew is using the Psalm 90 definitions of Generation in order to tell a specific chronological story.
      Ergo – Matthew expected Jesus to return within 80 years, maximum. – Of the time when we see ALL the signs happening at one time that he has given, that is now not then.
      He didn't – therefore, that Biblical prophecy is wrong. – No you are not reading what he said. You have to know what to watch for. Check it out again this time against the news since Jan 2011.

      October 11, 2011 at 2:49 pm |
    • Ok'yDok'y

      Judges

      • God promised many times that he would drive out all the inhabitants of the lands they encountered. But these verses show that God failed to keep his promise since he was unable to drive out the Canaanites. 1:21, 27-30

      • God promised many times that he would drive out all the inhabitants of the lands they encountered. But these verses show that God failed to keep his promise since he was unable to drive out the Canaanites. 3:1-5

      2 Samuel

      • "Thy kingdom shall be established for ever."
      God says that Davids's kingdom will last forever. It didn't of course. It was entirely destroyed about 400 years after Solomon's death, never to be rebuilt. 7:13, 16

      1 Kings

      • God puts a "lying spirit" in the mouth of his prophets. 22:22

      2 Kings

      • God promises Josiah that he will have a peaceful death. But Josiah's death was anything but peaceful. (2 Kg.23:29-30, 2 Chr.35:23-24) 22:20

      • In Jeremiah (34:4) God tells Zedekiah that he will die in peace and be buried with his fathers. But this verse and Jer.52:10-11 say that he died a violent death in a foreign land. 25:7

      2 Chronicles

      • The trouble with prophets 18:5-34

      • God puts lies into the mouths of his prophets and speaks evil about people. 18:21-22

      • Josiah died from an arrow wound in battle, not "in peace" as is promised in 2 Kg.22:20. 35:23

      Psalms

      • Misquoted in Eph.4:8, which says: "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men."
      The author changed the words and meaning of the psalm from "received gifts" to "gave gifts". 68:18

      • Misquoted in Mt.13:35. 78:2-3

      • "I have sworn unto David my servant, Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations." But the Davidic line of Kings ended with Zedekiah; there were none during the Babylonian captivity, and there are none today. 89:3-4, 34-37

      Isaiah

      • God told Isaiah to tell Ahaz, the King of Judah, not to be concerned about Rezin (the king of Syria) or Pekah (the king of Israel). But according to 2 Chr.28:5-6 "God delivered him [Ahaz] into the hand of the king of Syria; and they smote him, and carried away a great multitude of them captives, and brought them to Damascus. And he was also delivered into the hand of the king of Israel, who smote him with a great slaughter." 7:3-7

      • The King James Version mistranslates the Hebrew word "almah", which means "young woman" as "virgin". (The Hebrew word, "bethulah", means "virgin".) In addition, the young woman referred to in this verse was living at the time of the prophecy. And Jesus, of course, was called Jesus - and is not called Emmanuel in any verse in the New Testament. 7:14

      • As a sign that he's getting ready to destroy the world, God will destroy the whole universe. 13:10-13

      • These verses falsely predict that Babylon will never again be inhabited. 13:19-20

      • Dragons will live in Babylonian palaces and satyrs will dance there. 13:21-22

      • Every head will be bald, every beard will be shaved, and everyone will howl and weep abundantly. 15:2-3

      • "Therefore shall Moab howl for Moab, every one shall howl." 16:7

      • "Within three years ... the glory of Moab shall be contemned, with all that great multitude; and the remnant shall be very small and feeble." 16:14

      • This verse prophesies that Damascus will be completely destroyed and no longer be inhabited. Yet Damascus has never been completely destroyed and is one of the oldest continuously inhabited cities. 17:1

      • God will ride in on a cloud and scare the hell out of the Egyptians. 19:1

      • The river of Egypt (identified as the Nile in RSV) shall dry up. This has never occurred. 19:5

      • "The land of Judah shall be a terror unto Egypt." Judah never invaded Egypt and was never a military threat to Egypt. 19:17

      • This verse predicts that there shall be five cities in Egypt that speak the Canaanite language. But that language was never spoken in Egypt, and it is extinct now. 19:18

      • These verses predict that the Egyptians will worship the Lord (Yahweh) with sacrifices and offerings. But Judaism has never been an important religion in Egypt. 19:18-21

      • These verses predict that there will be an alliance between Egypt, Israel, and Assyria. But there has never been any such alliance, and it's unlikely that it ever will since Assyria no longer exists. 19:23-24

      • "They have ... changed the ordinance. There is a crying for wine in the streets; all joy is darkened, the mirth of the land is gone."
      Is this a prophecy about prohibition in the United States? 24:5-11

      • "The priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink." You can't even trust a drunken prophet anymore. 28:7

      • Misquoted in Rom.9:33. 28:16

      • "The light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold." Well, this is one prophecy that will never come true. Since the moon has no light of its own, but only reflects that of the sun, it could never shine like the sun. And the sun will not, at least not while there are humans to see it, shine 7 times as bright as it does now. 30:26

      • "The host of heaven shall be dissolved ... and ... shall fall down."
      The stars will dissolve and fall from the sky. 34:4

      • "Henceforth there shall no more come into thee [Jerusalem] the uncircumcised and the unclean." But many uncircumcised people have visited and occupied Jerusalem after this prophecy was made. 52:1

      • Nations that do not serve Israel will perish. 60:12

      • "The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me."
      These words were spoken by Isaiah and referred to Isaiah. They were not a prophecy about a future prophet, as Jesus claimed in Luke 4:16-19, where he supposedly read these verses in the synagogue while applying them to himself. 61:1-2

      Jeremiah

      • Jeremiah prophesies that all nations of the earth will embrace Judaism. This has not happened. 3:17

      • "The prophets prophesy falsely." 5:31

      • God will make Jerusalem an uninhabited "den of dragons." 9:11

      • Judah will become a desolate den of dragons. 10:22

      • "The prophets prophesy lies" in God's name. 14:14

      • God will destroy by famine and sword those who are misled by the prophets, as well as the prophets themselves. 14:15-16

      • Matthew (1:12) lists Jeconiah as an ancestor of Jesus - which, according to this prophecy, disqualifies Jesus as the Messiah. 22:28-30

      October 11, 2011 at 2:50 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      i wonder
      @StandforTruth – "100% accurate in prediction of history 2 thousand years later."

      Citations please. BIBLE! See this link it breaks it down and I don't have room here.http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

      October 11, 2011 at 2:52 pm |
    • Real Deal

      StandforTruth -

      "Start here. Make sure you check out the science page."

      So, now *you* are "deflecting" people to one of *your* pet web sites, but you refuse to go to ones that disagree with you?! You are a mental midget, enough said? 🙂

      October 11, 2011 at 2:55 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      hippypoet...........in catholic schools or do they just r@pe you instead, and you form a @ss backwards lifestyle....very curious indeed!
      I'm not a catholic.

      October 11, 2011 at 3:22 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      eal Deal
      StandforTruth –
      "Start here. Make sure you check out the science page."
      So, now *you* are "deflecting" people to one of *your* pet web sites, but you refuse to go to ones that disagree with you?! You are a mental midget, enough said? Nope, I know truth and you are afraid of truth so you won't look. I can't type all my proof because there is so much of it this blog would not allow it. That's the difference. You don't look for fear that it will reveal the truth about who you are.

      October 11, 2011 at 3:28 pm |
    • hippypoet

      standfortruth is a moron, no need to keep that conversation going, best to let him or her talk to themselves, like child!

      October 11, 2011 at 3:30 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      Ok'yDok'y......They have the building plans for the temple completed now. They have mostly finished all the furnishings, a red hefer has been born after hundreds of years of none there. No one ever said Bible prophecy was completed. It is still going on daily. If it was you nor I would be here. I could disprove every lie that you write about God's word and it still would not convince you, you don't want truth, enjoy your meaningless existence with the rest of your kind who waste your life trying to prove the Divine Creator that you "don't" believe in is not real. You'll see. I just wish you would figure it out before it is too late.

      October 11, 2011 at 3:36 pm |
    • Ok'yDok'y

      "You don't look for fear that it will reveal the truth about who you are."

      Oh plz it's complete garbage, twisting the scriptures to "interpret" it to follow what they want – that is what is wrong with your cult. Different people twist things to justify believing the voice they hear in their head is a god when in fact it's a form of mental illness. It's bogus, just like you won't have the guts to go to the sites that disagree with you to show you the truth of who you are.

      October 11, 2011 at 3:36 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      hippypoet
      standfortruth is a moron, no need to keep that conversation going, best to let him or her talk to themselves, like child!
      This moron had a bunch of atheist talking and thinking about God all day and they say the don't even believe in him. Now who's the moron?

      October 11, 2011 at 3:39 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      hippypoet...........and the all knowing atheist were reading and quoting the forbidden book the BIBLE. Pretty good day for the moron.

      October 11, 2011 at 3:42 pm |
    • Hear This

      StandforTruth,

      You DESPI.CABLE religionists will try to see to it that your trash prophesies come true... even if you have to blow up the Earth yourselves. Get out of here...you are hideous and dangerous.

      October 11, 2011 at 3:47 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      Hear This
      StandforTruth,

      You DESPI.CABLE religionists will try to see to it that your trash prophesies come true... even if you have to blow up the Earth yourselves. Get out of here...you are hideous and dangerous.
      We are not religionists. We are followers of the only GOD! Dangerous to your false beliefs that's why the world is trying to snuff us out. Every other religion is welcome because there is no treat. We are not welcome because our truth could actually save your soul and Satan can't have that now can he. He's got you tagged as his if you don't accept the truth of Christ Jesus, the ONLY way! The ONLY unwelcome doctrine! Imagine that! Don't take a rocket scientist to figure out that one.

      October 11, 2011 at 3:57 pm |
    • Ok'yDok'y

      "We are not welcome because our truth could actually save your soul and Satan can't have that now can he. "

      Dude seriously give it a rest there is no satan, no god, all you are doing is trying to spread fear within our society and divide our communities. If a satan existed you would be a great description of it with all the bullshit you're spewing.

      October 11, 2011 at 4:08 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      Ok'yDok'y
      "We are not welcome because our truth could actually save your soul and Satan can't have that now can he. "
      "Dude seriously give it a rest there is no satan" I wish you were right but sadly you are not. I am trying to warn you that your belief that there is no God will destroy your soul. Satan does exist that is why you are so angry and that is why he tries to keep you from listening to any truth about Jesus Christ. It is very true, it has been proven by history, science, archeology, etc. etc. etc. I am a facts person and I have seen the facts. He wants you to think this is all there is. You are searching for something to fill the void in your life and that is because only one thing can fill it, that is God, your creator. He put the desire to know him in you. Stop fighting it and research the facts, not from me but from anywhere you can get them. FACTS ONLY, NOT OPINIONS, FACTS. They are everywhere if you just look. Then if you fell I'm wrong at least you won't look back on this day and say, I wish I would have checked out what I was told.

      October 11, 2011 at 4:15 pm |
    • hippypoet

      @Standfortruth – oh i talk about your god all day long, possibly because i know more then you, but thats off topic.

      I also get those who don't believe in things to talk about such things as it is needed to truly understand a persons choice to not believe.

      But you have ask us the non believers to challange you, we did, you said you would answer, you didn't...instead told us where to find the answers... first i never ask a question to the likes of people like you without knowing the answer first, unless i respect you...which i don't respect you, i have may if you had answered like you said you were.. but alas no, you didn't! Also you said much without any proof and when asked to provide it, you instead chose to copy and paste our questions as part of your answers, and still never answered any of them... so yes as i said before , you are a moron. bravo for doing whatever it is that you do in life as i'm sure you were hired as part of some affirmitive action hiring backlash! AGAIN, SO ALL CAN SEE – MAY THE AMIGHTY SUN SHINE UPON YOU AND RELEASE YOUR IGNORANCE SO YOU MAY BE TRUE TO YOUR NAME! enjoy a pointless empty existence, as will we all.

      October 11, 2011 at 4:17 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      hippypoet...Maybe you know a lot because deep down you know it is all true so you search for a way to disprove it. I did answer some of the MANY questions. I sent you a link because the proof is so vast that I can't summarize it in these short notes back and forth, not to the extent that you would believe it, but the site I sent you had a lot of great proof that there would be no need for me to retype as they were quoting only facts not opinions. You're right it is your choice not to believe He gives us that choice. I did accept your challenge and I met some of the challenge by answering okydky's questions on one list. It would not matter if I had answered them all it's like you said, you have chosen not to believe and until you open yourself up to the fact that you just may not know everything you think you know then Jesus himself couldn't come down here and convince you. Pride will destroy many souls. Ya'll were throwing hundreds of questions at a time out there and really didn't want truth on any of them. AGAIN, SO ALL CAN SEE – MAY THE AMIGHTY SUN SHINE UPON YOU AND RELEASE YOUR IGNORANCE SO YOU MAY BE TRUE TO YOUR NAME! enjoy a pointless empty existence, as will we all. What are you into sun worship or something? My life is not empty and your's don't have to be. I can tell you are very dissatisfied with who you are. Something's missing and that is Jesus. I pray you will find Him someday.

      October 11, 2011 at 4:32 pm |
    • hippypoet

      LOL, me finding JOSHUA... thats funny because it reminds me of a comic i wrote making JOSHUA appear to be g@y... which is apparently wrong to be for a follower of your god... btw, he is a very nice, loving god that hates all other people but straight (non g@y) people who are not anyother religion then christians... yes, very loving and caring – i get a sense of pride in your god everytime i think about him... lets see, does he test abraham's faith in order to make sure he believes...yes, does your god nearly everytime he talks (laughible) claim to be the one true god...thats pride. did he create man then give him things and then take them away because we used them wrong...thats pride... did your god destory a few cities because they were doing what they wanted....thats a show of pride.....didn't your god create man in his image...whoa thats full of pride. .does your god say he has a chosen people..yup, thats pride too...did you god tell moses to take off his shoes in his presence...must have put new floors in recently, again pride...did god once say things then create a so called son so we would all remember...yup pride again..and finally, didn't your god comment murder when he allowed death in the garden, indircectly sure, but its his fault or else able would still be around..lol, i know, its pride again...so i am guessing if your god exists, i will see him or HER in hell! 🙂 thank god your god makes so many mistakes or else i would have totally believed him/her to be a true god, maybe not the true god, but a god atleast. But god is supposed to be a perfect being...yours is full of pride, and fault...sounds very human to me. AND AGAIN ITS JOSHUA!

      October 11, 2011 at 4:52 pm |
    • Ok'yDok'y

      "truth about Jesus Christ. It is very true, it has been proven by history, science, archeology, etc. etc. etc."

      dude the same can be said about Santa Claus he was a real person that did good thing too the only difference is now we know the embellished lies people told and continue to tell about him – doesn't mean the stories are all true! Yeah maybe there was a man named Jesus – there have been many named that doesn't mean he was actually the son of a god. It's fake just like the Santa Claus stories.

      October 11, 2011 at 4:57 pm |
    • Ok'yDok'y

      "You are searching for something to fill the void in your life and that is because only one thing can fill it, that is God, your creator. "

      LOL! You have to tell yourself that because that is what is in you not me dude. There is no void to fill, I am not looking for anything, I am just sick and tired of your cult spewing hatred like yours, it’s not good for our society. I am at true peace with myself. I have a fantastic life.. Continue lying to yourself about those that don't believe as you do. It's the only way you can feel better about who you are, stuck in self made self-righteousness, signifying nothing.

      October 11, 2011 at 5:03 pm |
  7. Chris Schene

    Seriously, the baptist church has more of the characteristics of a cult that many churches I have seen. They are highly controlling (no drinking, smoking) and their dispensationalist approach to theology and exegesis is rather lacking.

    Honestly, I suspect no more than 15-20% of regular church attendees would qualify as "Christians" in any case.

    October 11, 2011 at 9:29 am |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      No True Scotsman

      http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/No_True_Scotsman

      October 11, 2011 at 10:30 am |
    • jesse

      wow guys. you could say the same about jehovahs wittnesses, and Im not going to comment on that. And why would you listen to an article with political bias?
      Just because a mormons running for president..... are running for president the same time that there righting articles about how mormons arnt a cult, doesnt mean that you have to listen to the ARTTICLE? why else do you think this article is here??????? for popularity? if it is for popularity then why wasnt this here 5 years a go? no its for politics PEOPLE!
      (AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WITH POLITICS AND RELIGION) HA

      October 11, 2011 at 11:22 am |
    • StandforTruth

      jesse...people like you who want everyone to be quiet are why we have muslin president who has increased the national debt more than all other us presidents combined. let's just all sit back and mind our own business and see who starves to death first. REALLY!

      October 11, 2011 at 11:41 am |
    • Madtown

      increased the national debt more than all other us presidents combined
      ----
      Proper accounting of the previous admin's pet wars tends to do that. Would it have been more christian of him to continue to use GWB's shady accounting practices?

      October 11, 2011 at 12:19 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      Madtown
      increased the national debt more than all other us presidents combined
      Typical, blame the previous admin while your wife takes over a million in vacations. Get real dude. GWB has his own issues, who said I was a fan of his? But it's time Obama takes responsibility for all the debt incurred under his watch. GWB made me do it just don't wash while your family wastes millions for fun in taxpayers dollars.

      October 11, 2011 at 1:06 pm |
  8. xaris4u

    The question is not WHAT DO THE EVANGELICALS THINK ABOUT MORMONISM. The question that needs to be asked of Mitt Romney is WHAT DOES HE BELIEVE ABOUT EVANGELICALISM?
    If he believes and adheres to his spiritual authorities in the LDS Church then he is bound to these following view-points:
    Joseph Smith was told by a voice from an angel in his first vision: "He must join none of the (protestant) churches, for they were all wrong; and the personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors (including the likes of Mouw) were all corrupt." (Peal of Great Price 2:18, 19)
    "All will be damned who are not Latter-day-saints." (Ora Pate Stewart, WE BELIEVE p.7)

    October 11, 2011 at 9:26 am |
    • Randy Ostler

      Speaking for myself as a Mormon who lived in Dallas and Austin for 16 years, and discussed religion at length with devout Evangelical friends, I can project what Mitt thinks of Evangelicals. Mitt would believe that Evangelicals are group of people with strong devotion to their faith and the moral principles underlying that faith. He would hope that as long as his political actions are consistent with those moral view – that he would have political support from these people.
      It's not in a Mormon's nature (particularly one who has spent most of his time as a religious minority) to consider Evangelicals in a negative light. Evangelicals are culturally so similar to him that he doesn't differentiate. It's like when you get in trouble calling a Canadian an American. Unless he tells you he is a Canadian, you wouldn't necessarily know unless he says the word 'been'.
      Mormon's are not Evangelicals. They are not Catholics. We do not aspire to be. But who decides what a Christian is? The Evangelicals have claimed ownership of the term 'Historical Christianity'. How did they gain ownership of that? Catholics claim the same thing through the keys of Peter.
      I once asked a Baptist friend if being Christian was the same thing as being saved. She agreed with that (it was consistent with her belief that I was not saved because I was not Christian.) I asked if her Pastor could tell who in his congregation had been saved and who had not. She indicated that salvation is personal. The Pastor has no ability to determine that for a person. I then asked if she didn't find it peculiar that her Pastor could then dismiss all Mormons as being unsaved – if he couldn't even determine that in his own congregation.
      She handed me a tract explaining how to become a Christian. 1) Recognize all have sinned. 2) Sin separates us from God, 3) Only through the Grace of Jesus Christ can we 'cross that chasm' and return to God, 4) Only through accepting Jesus Christ as our personal savior can we be saved.
      I returned the next day and told her that these ideas were key elemnets of my beliefs. I expect that if she had met somone in China and he returned and said those words – she would have rejoiced in the creation of a convert. My acceptance of these principles was met with dirision – like I was lying to her.
      Mormon's view Evangelicals as a group of people with an appreciation for the light of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Mormons have a desire to share what they believe to be additional light an knowledge about Jesus Christ that has come to us through modern day revelation. A Mormon's view of an Evangelical therefore is quite positive.
      On the other hand, an Evangelical tends to treat a Mormon as a 'good person' but one who should be shunned and quarantined from other Christians because their beleifs are cancerous. If Evangelicals would treat Mormons the way Mormons treat Evangelicals – this problem would go away.

      October 11, 2011 at 10:00 am |
    • Bill the Cat

      Randy,

      You dodge around the fact that your Jesus attained godhood and was created. He is as different as the Jesus that fixed my roof is from the historical Jesus. So, when you responded to the lady that " these ideas were key elements of my beliefs", you were intentionally being deceptive. And the sad part is that you KNOW these facts, yet obfuscate nonetheless.

      October 11, 2011 at 10:38 am |
    • tallulah13

      I think the question that needs to be asked is how would Romney solve our economic crisis? How would he deal with our military involvement in the middle east, and that fact that more soldiers are dying from suicide than enemy actions? How would he repair our crumbling infrastructure, since his fellow republicans seem hell-bent on not spending tax dollars to fix our increasingly dangerous bridges and roads? How would he deal with our broken education system?

      Anyone who puts themselves forward to lead this country better put his personal mythology on the back burner and take action to save what's left of this nation. Otherwise, he/she isn't qualified to run.

      October 11, 2011 at 11:30 am |
    • Jefe

      Randy Ostler – love the response. I agree! well said.

      Ultimately nobody can tell another person if they are or aren't Christian – they need to make their own decisions and commitments to follow Christ.

      October 11, 2011 at 11:56 am |
    • Pam Volk

      I'm sorry to say, but I think you're a little confused. An Angel did not tell Joseph Smith not to join any of the churches. Jesus Christ told him that. You have you "quotes" and "facts" messed up...they're not correct. You could find the real truth of what we believe from Mormon.org.

      I agree with what this man's Randy Ostler replied to you. (Very good job Randy.)

      I also believe that:
      To become a Christian, we must:
      1) Recognize all have sinned.
      2) Recognize Sin separates us from God,
      3) Know that; Only through the Grace of Jesus Christ can we 'cross that chasm' and return to God,
      4) Know that; Only through accepting Jesus Christ as our personal savior can we be saved.


      By the descriptions of what the Bible says is a Christian....which is a follower of Christ....I AM a Christian.

      October 11, 2011 at 12:13 pm |
    • Madtown

      4) Know that; Only through accepting Jesus Christ as our personal savior can we be saved.

      ------–
      Hey Pam, curious: what about people who just never have a chance to learn about Jesus, and thus never even have the opportunity to choose to accept him? Are those folks not saved? Think primitive tribes, African, aboriginal, etc.

      October 11, 2011 at 12:33 pm |
    • StandforTruth

      Pam Volk...An Angel did not tell Joseph Smith not to join any of the churches. Jesus Christ told him that. You have you "quotes" and "facts" messed up...they're not correct.
      You're right it was an angel that was a story he later made up it was his seer stone. Yikes.

      October 11, 2011 at 1:09 pm |
    • xaris4u

      Randy and Jefe – Thanks for your response. Re: your question as to WHO GETS TO DECIDE WHO CALLS THEMSELVES A HISTORIC CHRISTIAN BODY. I'd argue that you certainly don't join the company of HISTORICAL CHRISTIANITY by claiming that you're the one and only one, while at the same time claiming that everyone else who's been calling themselves a HISTORICAL CHRISTIAN for 1300 years is NOT. That's not merely wanting to be accepted into a classification – that's called a hijack.

      October 11, 2011 at 1:37 pm |
    • ASteve

      Pam and Stand you are both right and both wrong. Smith told six different versions of this story. It started out (in the 1832 version) that he saw an angel. So anyone who claims that Smith said it was an angel is correct. Later when Smith decided to no longer believe in the trinity he changed the story (and many verses in the book of mormon) to make god and Jesus into two separate personages and make them be the ones who told him not to join any other churches.

      October 11, 2011 at 3:21 pm |
  9. James G

    @ Conner.....Mormonism is fake and made up...there is no evidence to support any of their claims of Jesus coming to the Americas or an alternate timeline of events in Central/South America during the time of Jesus in the Middle East. But don’t feel bad, because there is no evidence of the Exodus occurring either.

    October 11, 2011 at 8:31 am |
    • hippypoet

      your Exodus statement is wrong... oh and there has been many, i am going to @ssume you are talking about the Exodus out of Egypt. well there is proof to a large group of hebrews leaving that area...maybe not for the reasons describe in the book, but they were there and left. But as i stated there has been a great many of Exoduses for the Hebrews over the years. I believe the Jews only count 2 as proper, the one from Bablyon and the second one from Egypt.

      October 11, 2011 at 8:38 am |
    • Scott - 1

      @ hippypoet: “Exodus out of Egypt. well there is proof to a large group of hebrews leaving that area” Please provide references and date of migration

      October 11, 2011 at 11:40 am |
    • hippypoet

      @ scott – here ya go, http://starways.net/lisa/essays/exodus.html

      October 11, 2011 at 11:50 am |
  10. hippypoet

    MAY THE ALMIGHTY SUN SHINE A LIGHT UPON YOU ALL. MAY THE IGNORANCE OF RELIGION FLOW AWAY FROM YOU AS YOU ARE FILLED WITH THE WARMTH OF THE ALMIGHTY SUN!

    October 11, 2011 at 8:21 am |
    • StandforTruth

      My God created your Almighty Sun!

      October 11, 2011 at 1:36 pm |
    • hippypoet

      PROVE IT OR FOREVER KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. YOU, KNOW, LIKE YOUR "god" does! 🙂 smile and enjoy your pointless, godless existence!

      October 11, 2011 at 2:23 pm |
  11. LizM

    "I know cults. I have studied them and taught about them for a long time." How nice that you've STUDIED and TAUGHT about cults... try LIVING in one sir. Your remarks are insulting. I was Mormon for several decades of my life... I know what I lived. Control over every aspect of my life, from what I ate, to what I wore, to who I married, to the secret ceremonies in the temple where I had to agree to have my tongue cut out and be disemboweled if I divulged the happeneings in there. What frightens me about having a Mormon as President is, knowing the absolute devotion to their Prophet, I know full well that the government will not be run from the White House, but rather run from Salt Lake City. Any true blue Mormon will ALWAYS do what the prophet tells him/her, no questions asked. They have been groomed from babies "Follow the prophet, he knows the way..." Mormonism is very much a cult.

    October 11, 2011 at 7:57 am |
    • StandforTruth

      God bless you for your truth!

      October 11, 2011 at 8:20 am |
    • James G

      Could you please go into detail about the "Secret Cermonies"....what exactly is sooo secret/magical about them. I'm always up for a good laugh so please could into detail if you could.

      October 11, 2011 at 8:42 am |
    • Phil Ollero

      I think you are a liar. Yes we are told to do a lot of things,but we are not force to do it. It is up to us to listen or not. We are not told our tongues are going to be cut out. Obviously , you've never been in the temple and you are not a Mormon. I am sick and tired of people like you who pretends to be a mormon to express a view contrary to our beliefs. I know of 12 year old mormons who knows more about the mormon doctrine than fakers like you. YOU ARE An ANTI CHRIST. Shame on you!

      October 11, 2011 at 8:46 am |
    • Randy Ostler

      Liz,

      You might want to reflect what was a cultural issue of your parents vs. what was taught by the church. Every family has a unique culture. Very few members of the church understand the principles of the gospel by the time they start their families. But that goes for any other religious group as well. Parenting is a wonderful opportunity to develop Christianity. There is no better environment to foster His teachings. But all do not do it well.
      Free agency is such a fundamental doctrine of LDS theology and philosophy – that your claims of being forced or threatened are grossly inconsistent with that which is taught. Some parents struggle with teaching their children how to make decisions – and just do it for them. Thinking that they are 'doing what is best for them.' But this is not LDS doctrine. It is a mistaken pattern that parents in general have received from their cultural roots.
      Maybe it is too late for you to reconsider. Not because you are a bad person, but because we see what we believe. Since you so strongly believe that your experience with the LDS church was an escape from the grips of a cult – I am sure that you have 'seen' ample evidence to convince you. Any evidence to suggest otherwise problaby isn't going to help because you really don't want to change your belief. Your belief has come to define you. You are an escaped victim of the LDS church. Someone who has established themselves as a victim in a situation has too much emotional investment in their victim status to accept any information that would take that purple heart from them. I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with the LDS church. Your experiences of control and threats are inconsistent with the doctrine of Jesus Christ as taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It's a hospital – not a social club. We are all imperfect trying to help each other on the path to discipleship.

      October 11, 2011 at 10:12 am |
    • Brandon

      Why hasn't your tongue been cut out and why haven't you been disemboweled. LOL! You're crazy!

      October 11, 2011 at 4:37 pm |
    • James

      Liz, you seem to have entirely missed one of the points in the article. As pointed out, people were saying that having a Catholic as President (in Kennedy) would mean the Vatican was ruling the US, which is clearly nonsense. The same with Romney. Anyone who thinks a Mormon President would be a puppet of Salt Lake is deluded.

      Your hyperbole makes it sounds as if Mormons live under such burdensome restrictions that they have no choice but to sheepishly follow the tyranical demands of their leaders. Let's get some perspective here: Mormons have a code of health called the Word of Wisdom, which encourages healthy eating and forbids alchohol, tobacco, tea, coffee, and harmful drugs; hardly a burdensome restriction on your diet. They are also encouraged to dress modestly and respect their bodies, but are ultimately free to dress in whatever they like. I'd suggest that those whose fashion is dictated to them by celebrities and magazines are the ones who are being controlled!

      October 11, 2011 at 6:18 pm |
  12. alternativer

    @Tyler Smith,
    Joseph Smiths teachings can be proven to be false. Produce the golden tablets and allow scientists to examine them. It is a simple request and if they are real then you can add that to your proof. But, alas, the church will not produce them because they either do not exist or they are fraudulent creations that were invented by a drunken alcoholic that claimed to be a prophet of God.

    October 11, 2011 at 6:33 am |
    • Phil Ollero

      Nobody, NOBODY has proven the book of Mormon to be a fake just as nobody has proven the bible to be fake.It is all about having faith to believe in these books.

      October 11, 2011 at 8:51 am |
    • hippypoet

      well there phil... i think you fall into the idea of since theres no proof to disprove it , its true... right and the arguement against that is well theres is proof to prove anything. OK lets takes this slowly, the sciencific method states one must have proof or all is capible of being false, more easily understood way of saying that is to say a lack of evidence or proof is evidence of a lack of existence!
      can you follow that logic?

      October 11, 2011 at 9:02 am |
    • Randy Ostler

      So 12 people claiming to have seen and held the plates counts for nothing for you.

      Have you ever seen a microwave? Ever measured one? How big is it? Ever taken it's temperature? Yet you cook your food with a microwave oven every day.

      Not being able to see something, weigh it or take it's temperature does not eliminate it's potential for existence.

      You might suggest that scientists with the appropriate technology and equipment can actually detect and measure the existence of microwaves.

      I would suggest that there are people that can also detect the workings of the Holy Spirit and thus gain evidence of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. Those people exist. I am such a person. You could be such a person. It requires that we become meek as a child. A child doesn't need to see the Microwave to believe the microwave oven will work.

      October 11, 2011 at 10:20 am |
    • The Brain Fumigator

      Randy, where are the original plates, such that interested persons can inspect them?

      October 11, 2011 at 10:34 am |
    • Bill the Cat

      randy, all 12 were related to Joseph Smith or Martin Harris. And several have conflicting stories later on, which FAIR loves to spin like an MC spinning the vinyl.

      October 11, 2011 at 10:41 am |
    • PRISM1234

      Even if they were able to produce them (the plates), it does NOT prove that the Mormon religion is true.

      Satan has many manif-estat-ions, don't you people understand?! I will tell you of Christians who are co-mmit-ted to the LORD, who have actually been visited by the "angel" moroni who appeared to them, when they came visiting Utah. He told them to READ the book of mormon and LISTEN to their teachings. But as those Christians stood firmly in the power of the Holy Spirit of TRUE Lord Christ, and told this "angel" moroni that in the Name of Jesus Christ he must drop the lies and reveal his true identi-ty, he had to reveal himself, saying that he was the MESENGER OF SATAN HIMSELF.
      Just think of the tragedy, how many are in the trap of his deception, thinking they serve the true God, and they are not!
      But the God of Lord Jesus Christ, the TRUE CHRIST says, come out of from among them, and be separate... And if you seek me, you shall find me, if you seek me with all of your heart...Seek not a creed, not a doctrine, but Him , Himself, revealed in the Person of Jesus Christ, His Son, according to His revealed word, in the Holy Bible. There is NO OTHER BOOK, NO OTHER REVELATION that is given to mankind, and everything that anyone comes up with, and claims to be the truth, if it doesn't align with the Scriptures of the revealed Word of God , the Holy Bible, IT IS NOT OF HIM!
      Therefore, if any man thinks he is in the truth, let him examine what he believes, in light of the revelation of Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible, and no other!

      October 11, 2011 at 12:35 pm |
    • The Crucible

      PRISM – 1234,

      ....(AHEM, AHEM)....

      October 11, 2011 at 12:44 pm |
    • PRISM1234

      @C
      excused.... pigs do it too!

      October 11, 2011 at 2:00 pm |
  13. Goodwill Mpofu

    Please find time to read,

    http://divineradiancefellowship.blogspot.com/2010/07/who-is-christ.html

    http://divineradiancefellowship.blogspot.com/2010/09/genesis-of-christianity.html

    http://divineradiancefellowship.blogspot.com/2011/09/what-is-religion.html

    October 11, 2011 at 5:22 am |
    • The Brain Fumigator

      Please find the time to watch
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPOfurmrjxo

      October 11, 2011 at 10:35 am |
    • PRISM1234

      @BF
      This man, George Carlin KNOWS now that he swollowed satan's lies, hook, line and sinker, but there is no way to recant his words.... Sadly to say, you've done the same, even the name you chose for yourself reveals it....

      October 11, 2011 at 12:42 pm |
  14. pjtibayan

    http://www.albertmohler.com/2011/10/10/mormonism-democracy-and-the-urgent-need-for-evangelical-thinking/

    October 11, 2011 at 5:08 am |
    • Scott - 1

      @Josh: Yes, I agree, when on public display, Mormons’ performance is impeccable

      October 11, 2011 at 11:54 am |
  15. Josh

    I love how Mormons are accused of being non christian yet what did Jesus do when the Jews accused him of not being the son of god? He didn't argue with them, He didn't do anything but continued preaching to the people the Gospel.. If you have seen two Mormon Missionaries in your area, invite them over for dinner and for a good discussion. They won't "force" the religion on to you but are just there to answer questions on what Mormon's believe and to help out in any way they can... You'll never meet someone with better morals and ethics.

    October 11, 2011 at 3:54 am |
    • cleofe

      That's true Josh. No matter what, missionaries will never argue or attend to debate regarding religion. They're just there to answer your concerns regarding the church they belong. Humility in their prevails if someone will listen to their testimonies.

      October 11, 2011 at 6:00 am |
    • Justinstl

      Jesus did not preach "the Gospel" at all. Jesus did nothing more than what the wall street protesters are doing now...he didnt preach he just talked to people anout loving each other and told them to be against big business and government. Secondly he did not preach "the Gospel because there was no gospel yet and Christianity was not formed until a couple hundred years AFTER he was put to death. Everything you see written in the Bible is nothing but stories/here-say that was passed down and we all know how that works more and more was added each time it was passed down. You cant structure your Faith solely on what is /was man written in the Bible. you also have to follow your own instinct and beliefs on what you feel is right or wrong for YOU!

      October 11, 2011 at 8:15 am |
    • Justinstl

      Also Jesus NEVER claimed to be the son of "god"...

      October 11, 2011 at 8:25 am |
    • StandforTruth

      Jesus taught a different gospel than mormons do. The Bible says that if anyone preachers a different gospel than the word of God (ie.BIBLE ONLY) teaches then not to bid them God's speed. Morals and ethics won't get you into heaven. Your greatest attempts at righteousness are as filthy rags before a Holy God. The Bible warns not to add to or take away from what is says and that is exactly what mormons do. May God send you truth.

      October 11, 2011 at 8:26 am |
    • Justinstl

      Standfortruth.....GOD did not write THE BIBLE man did and all that statement about do not add to crap is just an attempt by the men in control to keep people from plagiarizing their work! There is no proof that anything written in the book is THE WORD of GOD....have you ever audibly heard GOD speak? NO you haven't! If you have and told people you have you would be locked away. You can have your Faith the way you want I just wish that many wouldn't hold so much faith in what is written in the book. It was only written to control and instill fear. worship your God by way of whats in your heart and own mind ....do not be fooled by what others tell you IS THE "only " way.

      October 11, 2011 at 8:48 am |
    • StandforTruth

      Justinstl...The Bible is the only book that has 100% prophetic accuracy. It has never been proven historically inaccurate or scientifically inaccurate. There is only 1 way and his name is Jesus Christ. Someday you will see and wish you had listened.

      October 11, 2011 at 11:09 am |
    • Scott - 1

      @Josh: Yes, I agree, when on public display, Mormons’ performance is impeccable.

      October 11, 2011 at 11:56 am |
    • Unmormoned

      I disagree. perhaps you can say that mormon missionaries have strong morals and ethics simply because of their resolution and absolution to their beliefs, but the minute their faith waivers, all ethical or moral code tends to disintegrate with their beliefs, and they must discover and cultivate a new reason for being moral and ethical, for reasons besides that they are pleasing their God, or avoiding his wrath.

      However, many of these young men will live their entire lives with those strong convictions you speak of. Still, I have seen countless scores of these young men who come home having "done their time" and immediately snap out of the "messenger of God" role. Many lose their faith while on a mission, but realize that quitting is simply an unthinkable option, as they would be ostracized by the mormon community if they don't "return with honor". They justify it to themselves by considering their doubts a "trial of their faith" by God, to see if they will remain true to his one true church upon the face of the earth.

      October 11, 2011 at 1:38 pm |
  16. Jason

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5x0wjT9Uq8
    Looks like I know as little about Anderson Cooper as he does about "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." You think he would be able to say "Moroni" correctly. What would Christ do if treated poorly? Forgive.

    October 11, 2011 at 3:35 am |
    • Unmormoned

      All so very moving, very touching. it's great to know that FINALLY we know which of the thousands upon thousands of various christian religions is the True one. gee willikers, I almost passed over The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints as just another random church, started by another random guy, who was confused about how there could be so many religions all claiming to be the True religion. I mean, who'da thunk that right about the time that everyone and their dog was starting their own church would be the same time that God decided to restore his church upon the earth? we're so darn lucky!
      But I can't pretend to know the mind and will of God for His "chosen people": only prophets can do that. We know this because the prophets have told us as much. God has pretty peculiar timing though... Retracting his position on Polygamy right around the time that Utah was being denied statehood for practicing it (whew! that you god! you really came through for us!); the "revelation" that the priesthood was for every "worthy" man in the church (heretofore I suppose it was just a general assumption that blacks were unworthy somehow.... or it never would have been a question) right around the time that... wait, you mean the mormon church was one of the LAST large religious organizations to hold over with such blatantly racist policies? Again, I guess we were just waiting for God to give the go-ahead.

      October 11, 2011 at 1:26 pm |
    • Unmormoned

      also, it wasn't Anderson Cooper who mispronounced Moroni, that was the pastor he was interviewing.

      looks like you have no idea what you're talking about.

      October 11, 2011 at 1:28 pm |
  17. war bro

    I wouldn't begin to tell another what they believe without first asking them to explain their beliefs. As a Mormon, or member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I will gladly share my beliefs in the reality of God's existence, his Son's divine mission as Saviour and Redeemer of mankind, the Holy Ghost and his role as the perveyor of the truth of all things ever taught by Christ. I'll tell you that Christ established his church by calling twelve simple men to be witnesses to the world of his teachings, his agony in Gethsmane and on Golgotha, his death and glorious ressurection. I'll even tell you that I came to know my Father in Heaven through his Son, Jesus Christ. How did I come to these simple but divine truths? I had the faith to test the truth of the gospel message; the good news of salvation through the Messiah of all mankind. Christ taught a precept that was simple, but amazingly powerful. If a man will follow him and do his will, then we are his disciple indeed. I try everyday to be Christ like by loving my God with all my heart, might, mind and strength, and to love my neighbor as myself. If that doesn't make me a Christian, nothing ever will.

    October 11, 2011 at 2:47 am |
    • The Brain Fumigator

      Lots of words, no proof other than some pretty hazy statements about you having faith. Present your evidence for your "truths". We want details.

      October 11, 2011 at 10:37 am |
    • Musica1

      If you're looking for "historic Christianity," wouldn't that be the Catholic church? Don't they have the longest running history of being a Christian denomination? So if we're defining the only true Christians as "historic" ones, then no Protestant is a true Christian, since you don't adhere to the Catholic practices.

      October 11, 2011 at 11:52 am |
  18. Brandon

    Mormon and proud. I believe in Jesus Christ as my personal savior. He died on the Cross for all men. He redeemed me of the fall of Adam. I've been blessed with a physical body that is a gift of God. Through obedience to the laws and ordinances of Jesus Christ gospel we can be saved by Faith, Repentence, Baptism and the Gift of the Holy Ghost. I believe and know these things by the Power of the Spirit. I know it and I know God knows it. You can know it by prayer. James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

    October 11, 2011 at 2:17 am |
    • Madtown

      Out of curiosity, what do you suppose will happen to those individuals that never have the opportunity to come to "know" Jesus Christ? People who were born into a certain area of the world, and just never even have the opportunity to learn about Jesus and his teachings. They don't have a choice to follow, through no fault of their own. Can they not be "saved"? How can it be that the way to salvation that you describe is the only way, when many souls that inhabit this world will never even have the option to learn of it? Where those souls created only to be d@mned?

      October 11, 2011 at 9:54 am |
    • Sam

      Hi. My name is Sam and I, too, am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (what some call the "Mormon" church). We believe that all people of every time period will have the opportunity to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ and accept it or deny it, either in this life or the next. God is just and loves all his children.

      October 11, 2011 at 12:20 pm |
    • Madtown

      We believe that all people of every time period will have the opportunity to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ
      ------
      Hey Sam, that's great that you believe that. But, what if there are human beings who never get the opportunity to "hear the gospel of Jesus Christ"? Take a primitive African tribal person, a human being. Is this person any less a child of God than you or I? Certainly not. So, how can it then be that if this person has never heard of Jesus, and doesn't have the opportunity to choose to follow him or not, that this person has no chance of eternal salvation? If God is just, then God wouldn't possibly deny someone salvation for not accepting Jesus, when that person never even had the chance to learn who Jesus was, right?

      October 11, 2011 at 12:42 pm |
    • Raspberry

      Madtown,

      Easy. These Nosy Parkers hunt them down after they are dead and edumacate them then. *Anything* is possible in a fantasy, you know 🙂

      October 11, 2011 at 12:51 pm |
    • PReading

      MadTown,

      To answer your question, the scriptures tell us that all men (meaning all people born on the earth) will have a chance to hear and either except or reject the Gospel. As we believe that souls are eternal and the individual exists after death, there will be time there for those who don't hear of Christ in this life to hear the Gospel then and either except or reject it.

      October 11, 2011 at 12:54 pm |
    • Raspberry

      p.s. Dead people are the *best* pupils... they don't ask questions or argue 🙂

      October 11, 2011 at 12:55 pm |
    • Brandon

      Where did Jesus go after his physical death on the cross?
      1 Peter 3:18-20
      King James Version (KJV)
      18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
      19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

      October 11, 2011 at 4:17 pm |
    • xaris4u

      Hi Brandon,
      I asked that question 30 years ago and got an entirely different reply… The Jesus I was praying to told me not to worship another being who calls himself Jesus and is the spirit-brother of Lucifer and who progressed to become another of many gods. He told me that He had warned humanity that there would be many who would come and claim to have seen Jesus appear to them and give them new teachings – and that we were to disregard them and shun their teachings and practices. This is what I have done with the Mormon Jesus for the past 30 years – while enjoying a depth of intimacy and love for the true Jesus of the Bible that I never knew would be possible. There is only one authentic Jesus. He's the one that Christians adhere to. Because of the vast differences between the Jesus of Mormonism and the Jesus of the Bible, Christians have, as a matter of good Biblical practice shunned the many false Jesus' that Jesus said would come and mislead many in His name.

      October 11, 2011 at 9:07 pm |
  19. Mynamesmiketoo

    Being a Mormon myself, I can testify that our religion is not a cult and Joseph Smith is not our head. Jesus Christ is the leader and he is the cornerstone of His church "built on a foundation of prophets and apostles" I also know it is through the atonement of Christ all mankind may be saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. Romney is definatly a Christian. We are "the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" we are just nicknamed "Mormon" because of another testament we hold sacred and true. I ask you visit mormon.org for more info.

    October 11, 2011 at 2:01 am |
    • James G

      That another testament has no roots in historical christanity...therefore you are not christains.

      October 11, 2011 at 8:45 am |
    • Randy Ostler

      James G –
      Your defense of 'Historical Christianity' is a bit loaded. Historical as defined by the Catholic Church? Historic as defined by the Nicene Creed? Historic as defined by Jesus Christ? Where are you going to define Christianity?
      Accoring to Christ – 'those who are not against us are for us.', 'If you love me keep my commandments'. According to Jesus Christ – disciples are those who 'prepare and wait for him', 'magnify their talents in his service', 'feed the hungry and clothe the naked'. (Matt 25). Yet the greatest criticism against Mormons is this idea that our belief in discipleship somehow discounts Jesus Christ's saving grace. We are accused of 'earning' salvation rather than 'receiving' the grace of Jesus Christ. Yet Jesus asks us to be followers, to be disciples and that if we do not follow – 'not everyone that says 'Lord, Lord' will enter into His presence.'
      Don't condemn us for our commitment to discipleship. We don't condemn you for your good works – even though they may put you at risk of losing your salvation if at any time you begin to believe that such behavior 'is expected' of you as Christians.

      October 11, 2011 at 10:29 am |
    • Bill the Cat

      No, Randy. The greatest criticism of Mormonism is that you believe in multiple gods, despite what God has clearly declared through Isaiah, Moses, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel.

      October 11, 2011 at 10:46 am |
    • Fallacy Spotting 101

      Root post contains Argumentum ad verecundiam – Ipse Dixit

      http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_verecundiam

      October 11, 2011 at 10:50 am |
    • GBL

      To all of you critics of the "Mormon" church I'd like to put forth a few points.

      Those that say there is no proof of the Book of Mormon should realize that it was published before any evidence was ever found of the ancient civilizations that lived in America. Now we can visit the ruins, including the ruins in Mexico that were built on top of buried ruins. They say they can't understand why. Read the Biik of Mormon to know. Also remember how when the conquerors arrived they were greeted as Gods, as their traditions told them of a similar visit centuries prior and a promise that he would return. Even then, we are not presenting this as proof. Read it. Ask God. If you really believe in him you know he can and will answer.

      The reason we send young men and women for the most part on missions, as opposed to older and more knowledgable men and women, is we are not trying to convince anyone of the truth of our religion. It is presented and left for the investigator to ask God. Those that truly want to know, who ask, and who believe that God can answer get an answer.

      To Billy the cat, you should study the Bible. Especially look at this verse in Revelations 3 that succinctly, and unequivocably explains our views on "polytheism."
      21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

      October 11, 2011 at 2:53 pm |
  20. RRR

    Mr. Muow,
    Thank you for a very fair and thoughtful article.

    October 11, 2011 at 12:56 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.