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October 10th, 2011
03:49 PM ET
First openly gay pastor ordained in the PCUSA speaksBy Eric Marrapodi, CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor (CNN) - It was nearly three decades in the making, but the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) has ordained its first openly gay pastor. The Rev. Scott Anderson was ordained Saturday at Covenant Presbyterian Church, in Madison, Wisconsin. "It's an exciting time for me personally to be the first openly gay person ordained in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), and it's a big moment for our church that has has excluded gays and lesbians for so many decades, so it's a new day for us," Anderson told CNN's Suzanne Malveaux. Anderson had previously been a Presbyterian pastor but left the ministry in 1990 after he was outed by congregants. At the time, the church required pastors, deacons and elders "to live either in fidelity within the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman, or chastity in singleness," according to its constitution, known as the Book of Order. Anderson was in a homosexual relationship that violated the church's policy at the time. "I had been a Presbyterian pastor for eight years, and when I left, I never thought this day would come in my lifetime. God has brought a variety of surprises to my life, and this certainly is the biggest one," Anderson said. The PCUSA formally changed its ordination policy after a majority of presbyteries, or regional groups of churches, approved the change. The move went into effect in July. An amendment was passed at the General Assembly, or churchwide governing meeting, last year to remove the marriage language from the church's constitution and insert, "Standards for ordained service reflect the church’s desire to submit joyfully to the Lordship of Jesus Christ in all aspects of life." A letter from church leaders posted on the church's official website explaining the changes called the matter "a Presbyterian family struggle." The move led Carmen Fowler LaBerge of the Presbyterian Lay Committee, which opposed changing the ordination standards, to set aside her ordination. She wrote in a commentary posted on the committee's website, "I will joyfully serve as your sister in Christ in the PCUSA without the benefit of institutional ordination credentials and without the burden of a denomination’s corporate guilt. I hereby humbly set aside my ordination as a matter of conscience before the Lord." "I think what's happening in the Presbyterian church is happening also in the Christian church across our nation right now," Anderson told Malveaux. "Our church is recognizing there are a variety of viewpoints on scripture. There's no longer a right viewpoint and a wrong viewpoint but several faithful viewpoints, one of which includes me in terms of being a minister in the Presbyterian church. So we're honoring a diversity of viewpoints in our church." Watch CNN Newsroom weekdays 9am to 3pm ET and weekends. For the latest from the CNN Newsroom click here. |
  About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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I don't think Christians should judge anyone. Their hypocrisy is repugnant.
Christians have every right to judge. Just as you have judged them.
But it doesnt matter what either party judged, the only judgement that matters is Jesus Christs judgement. And based on what we know of Christ, this pastor is living in sin.
fda
"Based on what we know of Christ", there are FAR FAR MORE Christians living in the sin of adultery for remarrying than there are total gays.
Pick the sins you like to trash and ignor the rest.
Based on what you know of the English language, dufus, I doubt you're qualified to discuss the meaning of anything you read.
Every story in this CNN section tries to undermine everything about religion and GOD... how surprising. Much like CNN, the left media and left in general have undermined families and family values... that has been good for our country. Thank you Leftist you've really been destructive to the core of society. Families and families values.
Mike,
"Thank you Leftist you've really been destructive to the core of society."
The religious right constantly swears that this is a Christian country. Don't blame their failures at home and in churches on others.
How did gays ruin the family? By trying to develop solid loving families, by wanting committed relationships, by wanting others to recognize their families, by trying to legally legitimize relationships? That sounds like just the opposite.
Look inward. Isn't that was Jesus teaches us?
How about we stop stop combining politics and religion. You can can be a donkey or an elephant and still be a Christian. What you mentioned about CNN is usually true, but don't think FOX has ever forgotten to do their part too.
"There's no longer a right viewpoint and a wrong viewpoint but several faithful viewpoints, one of which includes me in terms of being a minister in the Presbyterian church. So we're honoring a diversity of viewpoints in our church."
Wow. Now THAT'S heresy. That's what he should be bounced for. I admit Truth often is difficult to discern, but it IS there. He and others who think that "if it feels good, believe it" are just theologically and intellectually lazy. And wrong.
Dorian Gray,
Besides morals, the Bible is also full of contradictions and hypocrisy. The huge number of Christian denominations proves that there is no one single known correct interpretation. If you think you have the ONE true interpretation, the sheer numbers show that you are most likely WRONG.
Really? You follow a book that says (among many things) that angles came down from wherever they come down from and had relations with humans to make a new race of giants for which god had to flood the world so a guy built a boat big enough to save a few humans and every animal in existence... What "truth" are you looking for in a book like that?
Evidently the God revealed in the Bible (the Bible this paster allegedly adheres to) stopped being holy and stopped demanding the same from His followers.
Do you have evidence to provide of these contradictions?
The US has sunk to a whole new low. Now let's all join hands and sing God Bless America. LOL
Note it says first "openly" gay minister in the PCUSA... I **guarantee** he's not the first gay preacher. 100% iron clad, take it to the bank.
Yes, of course. I have no doubt there are closet gay preachers. In fact, several have been caught engaging in homosexual behavior and have had to answer for their hypocrisy.
There are closet atheist preachers as well. But we don't hear about them much for obvious reasons.
The Peverterian chirch
Pick and choose the sins you agree with and ignor the rest.
Poor little Pimple. Him is sad. Boo hoo.
Why not realize that everyone is a child of god? EVERYONE. I don't understand churches who discriminate against anyone–they themselves will talk about everyone being a child of god. You are obviously a hypocrite, too.
@tom tom
You are funny Lisbeth. I enjoy sparring with you sometimes, just for fun.
On one serious note, and I know you don't care, but it would nice to have intellegent banter with you without the hostility and name calling. Just a thought.
You are one of only a few with whom I believe that might be possible. I will give it due consideration.
The idiot trolls again.
Awww, Guess that left a mark, didn't it? Poor baby.
pathetic loser
Get a Band-aid, honey.
In both the Old and New Testaments ga_y se_x is said to be sin. The Presbyterian organization is in rebellion against God. Jesus personally stated marriage is intended by God to be between a man and a woman. Anyone who rebels against the teachings of Jesus Christ can hardly call himself a Christian, much less a minster of the gospel.
Robert,
Jesus also said that anyone divorcing and remarrying is guilty of adultery unless the spouse already committed adultery.
Why aren't you addressing this MUCH MUCH LARGER problem with Christians?
It's all pick and choose hypocrisy.
Well, then, you should be thrilled. Heaven will be a little less crowded by all these gays and their followers. You and your holier-than-thou pals can have it all to yourselves.
jesus had something interesting to say about marriage in luke 20 and heres a quote
34 ¶ And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 but they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
without interpreting
jesus said that if people want to be raised from the dead
they cant get married
so
christians who are married cant go to heaven when they die
according to the words of jesus
You'll be very surprised when you get to Heaven and all these gay people got there before you did and tastefully decorated.
Heh. And everyone will have good hair, too.
@ The Brown Note – I think you misinterpreted that part. Jesus seems to be comparing life in heaven ("that world") to life on earth. People marry on earth, but those who are judged worthy of going to heaven do not marry in heaven. This is supported by "neither can they die any more", because in this world bachelors can die just like married men.
@Robert – There is no priest/pastor who is without sin, just like their is no parishioner who is without sin. As Jesus said, "Let the one without sin cast the first stone." The leaders of this guy's church obviously felt he could be a competent pastor. I don't think I would condemn him so quickly.
Before a person becomes a christian they repent of their sins. Nobody can be perfect before or after they accept Christ,but we need to try. When we fail we are to repent and keep moving on. Someone choosing to live a gay lifestyle continues to sin. There is no repentance there. Does that mean he is not saved? God is his judge not me. Still how can a person call themselves a follower and especially a pastor and blatantly disregard what the Lord calls an abomination!
Christian,
There are far far more Christians guilty of the sin of adultery than there are total gays. Why aren't you picking on your fellow Christians since this is a much larger problem?
One reason this is such an issue is that the other sinners (everyone else) aren't proclaiming that what they do is not a sin. We all recognize that we sin. We don't say to the church our sin is acceptable. It isn't. I would not hire an serial adulter as a pastor nor an alcoholic. I wouldn't elect a greedy person or any other person who flaunts sin and says it's acceptable. this is not right.
The problem here is that so many people are looking at we christians as hypocrits. That's a gaurantee. We were'nt perfect before accepting Christ and we will not be after. So hypocrits we are. That's why you don't look to me for salvation, you look to Jesus who died for our sins.
Since when is the bible supposed to be interpreted? The scripture states it is not a matter of personal interpretation.
You put rotten tomato in head of church now? Almighty watching you, he no look away frome evil and wicked wasys
My name Peggy.
Before anyone bashes the "fundies", they need to stop and think about the passage in the "fundies'" book of belief. The christians are simply backing up the part of the Bible that states it is an abomination for a man to lie with a man as though he were a woman. If a person claims to be a follower of a certain religion and then engages in behavior that is in direct violation to the laws of that religion, they are hypocritical. It's like a muslim who says it's not ok to marry 10 year old girls or eat camel intestines. If you want to call yourself a follower, or a leader in this case, of a particular religion, you have to obey the rules of that religion.
Joe,
Everyone just picks and chooses what they like from the Bible and ignors the rest. That's why so many Christian hypocrites trash gays while ignoring the much greater number of Christians who commit adultery by remarrying.
So I guess I need to figure out what price to sell my daughter for. Stone my son for being stubborn. No more shrimp with cream sauce. Guess I have to ditch the cotton and linen suit. So many rules. So little time.
Actually, divorce and remarrying IS adultery, according to the Bible. They shouldn't condone that either, if they are sincere to the doctrine.
cmxsmitty
Before you make uneducated comments about the bible, why don't you study it and understand what you are commenting on?
"Everyone just picks and chooses what they like from the Bible and ignors the rest"
I must agree that the more vocal Christians may, but most of the Christians I know are good people, and do try to follow everything in the Bible. I think you'll agree that saying "every" Christian is a little extreme.
@Evan People can't be good and follow every commandment in the bible. Many of them prescribe heinous things.
W2 – I was raised a hard core Baptist and attended private Christian schools. I also studied comparative religion. I know exactly what I am talking about. Why don't you quit taking a 2000 year old book thats been edited by Kings and the Church and twisting ancient rabbinic law to suit your prejudice.
W247, right back atcha. I studied religion rather extensively and you are obviously clueless. You are under the misapprehension that your interpretation of the Bible is the only "correct" one, when in fact, there are multiple valid interpretations and yours is hardly marked by any intense thought.
@tom tom
Sensei, are you suggesting that there are valid interpretations of the Bible? What makes them valid? Who does the validation?
Furthermore, if something is valid, then changing something would make it invalid by definition. Like a programming language. I do not understand your teachings Sensei.
Gee, that's too bad for you. My sympathies.
@tom tom
Snappy comeback. Do you need a five hour energy drink?
No. Do you?
Never touch the stuff.
Goodie, goodie for you.
@tom tom
Dang! ANOTHER
joe
about the abomination thing
you forgot the second half of that verse
it goes on to say that they should be put to death
@tom tom
Your past time is of no concern to me. Simply responding to your previous post. Again, please carry on.
Or ignore the fact that 70+% of abortions in the USA are had by believers...
Progress – It's good to see!
Hi I'm an atheist, I'd like to be ordained by your church and made a pastor too.
I really have a lot of info to inform and update your church goers.
Oh you're not ready for that (yet), although the rest of the world welcome this free speech anywhere.
Obviously the church still employs on religious grounds, this being totally separate to any industry in society.
Shame on you churchies, get with the times.
Why don't you get with a school and attain your GED?
@tom tom
There are many kids who need the GED due to problems at school, bullying, broken homes, imaturity. Not everyone can be as well-educatied as you. You should try to help them Sensei.
@tom tom
You may punish me Sensei for misspelling educated. I am such a stupid person. Please forgive.
If you think kimsland is some poor unfortunate, honey, I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn.
@tom tom
No, I do not think that. I don't know Kim so I have therefore formed no opinions on the subject. I do however object to your degredation of the GED program and also to referring to women as "honey".
You also misspelled 'immaturity', Central Scrutinizer. This is going on your permanent record.
Since I AM female, your objection is moot. I don't care whether you approve or not. Get over it.
Furthermore, I know firsthand how the GED benefits many who have been unable to get a high school diploma for a variety of reasons. That is why I suggested kimsland pursue one.
@death
Dang it! tom tom hates when I do that!
@lisbeth salander, er, tom tom
So because you are female you think it is ok to use demeaning terminology to describe them? I don't follow Sensei.
If you understand the value of the GED program, it is illogical to introduce it as a means of belittling someone on this blog.
I am losing faith in my Sensei.
Hardly the caliber of Salander. I don't care whether you're losing faith in me or not, since I don't purport to be anything other than a snotty basher.
Find yourself another poster to judge. Your appraisals are useless to me.
@tom tom
Just as your appraisals are useless to everyone else. The teacher becomes the student.
And? As I said, my purpose here is to observe, pass judgment, and ridicule.
@tom tom
Yes, well that is certainly a noble calling. I am sure you are quite proud indeed. And the other posters just can't wait to hear your wisdom and insults. Please, carry on.
Oooh, I'm hurt. My red candy heart is broken in two. The Schnauzer doesn't approve of my pastime! Woe is me.
@ tom tom
Your past time is of no concern to me. Simply responding to your previous post. Again, please carry on.
I shall. Thank you for your permission to do so, sir.
This little convo has been fun, Schnauzer. I like you. You're a good sport. I am not as mean-spirited as I seem.
Forgive my shortcomings and faults.
Tom is a female? This would explain the severe mood swings. I'm gathering this woman is similar in shape to Rosie O'Donnell with a dash of Whoopie Goldberg. The hatred flowing from her undergarments does not smell of Summer's Eve, instead I'm detecting the odor of a dumpster behind a restaurant in New York City on a hot summer's day, oh, and here comes aunt Flo with a battering ram so it can escape those thighs I have been wondering about you, Tom. For quite some time. Please, put down the sword. And get in the kitchen where you belong. Nevermind, you'll never have anyone to prepare food for.
Hey Schnauzer, do you still wonder why I post what I do?
Many are those that take pieces of scripture to the extremes. We want God to conform so we can live as we please.
a. The text(s) should be studied in thier entirety
b. Let scripture interprete scripture
c).If you dont like whats spelled out, ask for prayer to overcome. If you still dont like it, then that your perogative but dont twist it to the point it becomes self serving.
d). Beware of the apostate Church (i.e, fake).
e. Study the text carefully.....How many Church's did Christ saying he was going to build?
Hey, Uncouth Lame, when did you last talk to a woman that wasn't inflatable, dear?
I dunno. How many churchs (sic) DID he say he was going to build? Unless you were there, you have no idea. All you know is what some men SAY he said.
Oh I don't know. When did you start thinking you could actually pass as a woman?
Baby steps, right? Religion is not going to disappear overnight. It's going to be a slow, dare I say, evolution of steps until religion ultimately becomes obsolete. I think it's too early to say but I hope little changes like this is progress towards moments of clarity for people to realize that we don't need religion any longer. Fundies hate this sort of thing because it scares them. However, it could also have the negative consequence of sucking people into the void.. . we'll wait and see.
I am a christian and know that your wish will never happen. Why is religion such a threat?
Gee, I don't know, maybe because your version of religion condemns some people to burn in hell for being the people they were created to be.
Ya think? No, I doubt you do.
@DG: Religion is a threat to humanity in general. Do you not agree that the religion of Islam has been and still is a threat to society? The same goes for Christianity and its very palpable threat to our constitution. If the churches of Christianity had their way they would amend the constitution with their own dogma. That is the reason why the secular people and organizations of this country are constantly having to fight to keep church and state separate as it should be.
My "wish" may never happen in our lifetime but according to history, religions have a tendency to eventually run their course and die out or get replaced by other religions. And how do you know this could never happen anyway? It's already on its way. Just take a look at the history of Christianity and compare it to what it is today. And please, "because god says so" is not a logical argument, it's not an argument at all.
I guess CNN.com is into partiality. They do not want to post my comment.
If your post contains any naughty words the filter will automatically reject it. I think some people on this blog have a running list of words that are not allowed and hopefully they can post it here.
The stupid word filter will also not allow complete words such as "consti'tution" because it contains the word "ti't". You will have to separate it using either a space, comma, period, dash, apostrophe, and so on...
Bad letter combinations / words to avoid if you want to get past the CNN automatic filter:
Many, if not most, are buried within other words, so use your imagination.
You can use dashes, spaces, or other characters to modify the "offending" letter combinations.
---
ar-se.....as in ar-senic.
co-ck.....as in co-ckatiel, co-ckatrice, co-ckleshell, co-ckles, etc.
co-on.....as in rac-oon, coc-oon, etc.
cu-m......as in doc-ument, accu-mulate, circu-mnavigate, circu-mstances, cu-mbersome, cuc-umber, etc.
cu-nt.....as in Scu-ntthorpe, a city in the UK famous for having problems with filters...!
ef-fing...as in ef-fing filter
ft-w......as in soft-ware, delft-ware, swift-water, etc.
ho-mo.....as in ho-mo sapiens or ho-mose-xual, ho-mogenous, etc.
ho-rny....as in tho-rny, etc.
jacka-ss...yet "ass" is allowed by itself.....
ja-p......as in j-apanese, ja-pan, j-ape, etc.
koo-ch....as in koo-chie koo..!
nip-ple
pi-s......as in pi-stol, lapi-s, pi-ssed, therapi-st, etc.
p-orn… as in p-ornography
pr-ick....as in pri-ckling, pri-ckles, etc.
que-er
ra-pe.....as in scra-pe, tra-peze, gr-ape, thera-peutic, sara-pe, etc.
se-x......as in Ess-ex, s-exual, etc.
sh-@t.....but shat is okay – don't use the @ symbol there.
sl-ut
sn-atch
sp-ic.....as in disp-icable, hosp-ice, consp-icuous, susp-icious, sp-icule, sp-ice, etc.
strip-per
ti-t......as in const-itution, att-itude, ent-ities, alt-itude, beat-itude, etc.
tw-at.....as in wristw-atch, nightw-atchman, etc.
va-g......as in extrava-gant, va-gina, va-grant, va-gue, sava-ge, etc.
who-re....as in who're you kidding / don't forget to put in that apostrophe!
wt-f....also!!!!!!!
–
There are more, some of them considered "racist", so do not assume that this list is complete.
Doesn't matter whether they are or not. What matters is that they are more charming than YOU.
@tom tom
Why is that?
Why is what?
@tom tom
"Doesn't matter whether they are or not. What matters is that they are more charming than YOU."
Why does it matter that they are more charming than me. That may not even be possible. I am very charming indeed.
Reluctantly, I agree that you are charming in many respects.
So is he still in a committed hom-o se-xual relationship?
I believe so... I thought I read somewhere he had been in a committed monogamous relationship for 20 years or so.
So to put this into another context, does this mean that if I had an adulterous affair that lasted 20 years and still wanted to be an ordained pastor, because I am submitting joyfully to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, that would be ok? I am just trying to understand how we are changing the Word now.
It wouldn't BE an "adulterous relationship" if gay marriage were legal, moron.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
Stop calling people names if you don't understand the comment.
I wasn't talking about being in a gay relationship. If gay relationships are now allowed in the PCUSA – then can I have an adulterous relationship too? If they are changing the Word for one thing, why not the other?
YOU are the one who isn't catching on, bonehead. Gays in committed relationships would marry if such marriages were legal in all states. They aren't legal in Wisconsin. What part of this is so puzzling to you?
You want the "Word" to reflect your take on morality and when it doesn't, you think someone's "changing the Word". Why don't you find evidence that gay marriages are forbidden by God and then explain why gay people who are forbidden to marry by the state are committing adultery?
@tom tom
I know you have a compulsion for correcting people on these silly blogs, however why do you feel the need to punctuate each lesson in “I’m smarter than you” with an insult? (Moron, Idiot, Git (from yesterday) Just curious. This lack of common courtesy is a poor trait.
So sue me. Don't like what I write? Don't read it. I don't give a hoot one way or the other, Schnauzer.
"If gay relationships are now allowed in the PCUSA – then can I have an adulterous relationship too? "
As long as they are married before god they aren't committing adultery. Divorced people are in adulterous relationships but as long as they speak with their pastors and their new marriages blessed they are not seen as being adulterous anymore. Go figure that one out.
@tom tom
Oh, and if you would kindy proofread for me that would be great. I ain't got the brains God give a dog and I wouldn't want to upset you.
King David in your bible had a long term affair with his concubine. He also had a relationship with Jonathan that wasn't exactly just friends. Oh and then there was Solomon with his 600+ wives. Jacob married sisters. And then there is that nagging question – where did Cain's wife come from. Except for Cain – all were beloved by God and led nations. You shouldn't look to the Bible for examples of what God deems appropriate.
I don't have time to change your diapers, Schnauzer/Logorrhea.
@tom tom
But tom tom, if I don't read your posts, from whence will cometh my wisdom?
Silly tom tom. We could be BFF's if you would play nice. Easy on the diaper play though pervy.
I have friends. I don't need you.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
Advice: no matter how correct you might be, resorting to juvenile name-calling just dimishes what you say and indicates more desperation than reasoning. Why not chill out a little and impress people with your intelligence rather than lack of maturity? No one ever won an argument through childish name-calling. You can supply facts rather than insults so why not do it?
Why should I? It's lost on most of the dimwits here and those who are smart already know plenty. As I said, if you are so bothered by my posts, here's a clue: don't read them.
Unlike you and the Schnauzer, I'm not here to win friends and influence people. I don't give a rat's patootie if I convince or persuade anyone to my point of view. My only raison d'etre is to observe, pass judgment, and ridicule those deserving of it.
@tom tom
Oh tom tom, everyone has needs from time to time. Are your friends as charming as you?
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
"Why should I? It's lost on most of the dimwits here and those who are smart already know plenty."
So, by your own admission, your statements accomplish nothing. If you want to win an argument, you'll have to do it through use of mature intelligence rather than juvenile name-calling. If your statements serve no purpose for any others as you claim, then all that's left is to use them to vent your frustrations, which appears to be the case.
Misplaced response. I just want make absolutely SURE you see it. Doesn't matter whether they are or not. What matters is that they are more charming than YOU.
@tom tom
I sense that you have some tension tom tom. I am certatin you could never "win" any friends, on that we certainly agree. Again I say to you, I must read your posts or I will never learn from Sensei. Now on he passing judgement tip, your are destined to fail. Personality flaw or immaturity?
Are you new here? There's no "winning" of any argument, you nit. This is nothing more than a free-for-all. There's no deep thought going on here.
If you want that, I suggest you visit a forum called "The Perfect World". Smart people, intelligent discourse, little in the way of censorship.
This? This is a brawl.
As for my purpose in posting-you can continue to guess what it is. I won't mind if you conclude something or other. I don't much care what any of you do, conclude, think, or burp out.
If I were looking for psychoanalysis, I'd pay for it and get my money's worth. Your two cents is worth exactly what it costs.
Go ahead and attempt to dissect my psyche. It'll be most amusing. Considering that you couldn't discern my gender, you should be quite adept at analyzing me.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
Please seriously talk to a friend about the cause(s) of your inner hostility.
I don't burden my friends with my issues, dearie. I pay someone for that service. Maybe you should do the same if you are so bothered by posts on an anonymous forum.
My fellow Americans! Take up the cause. Phoock the mormons and christians and Islam, etc. Let truth guide you! We are running out of time. The country and the world is falling apart!! It is up to US!!
Until such time as an Atheist, an Agnostic, an openly ho-mose-xual person, or any other minority can be seriously considered for political office, particularly the presidency, then I hang my head in shame as an American. Sure, Obama is half black and that is a step in the right direction. But where are the Asians, Africans, Mexicans, Gays, Atheists, Agnostics and all other minorities? Scr-ew the Christians! Let some intelligent folks move the country forward for a change. The Christian Right are liars, cheats, thieves and charlatans. The Dems just lie to fit in. Americans, let’s take back our country! The time is now! Call out the politicians on their lies. Call out the banks on their thievery. Take Wall Street money away from the politicians. Smart people in Congress, that should be our mantra, Carry on with common sense or we are doo-med. It is up to us to remove them!
Right now, only morons and liars can run for office. How does this help America??
We deserve better. Much better. In order to run for office you have to be a Christian or lie and say you are a Christian. No one with a moral center could ever stomach politics, so sadly we just get what is left over. Rich, Bent, greedy liars. If we could have an atmosphere of tolerance then maybe, just maybe GOOD candidates would actually present themselves. I can dream, can't I?
My point is this and this ONLY: Unless you are rich and/or willing to be on the take AND Christian or pretending to be, you can't get anywhere in Washington. That is bad because it omits the huge surplus of knowledgeable, intelligent and morally sound people we have in our great country from wanting to run for office.
Why do YOU feel the need to cut-and-paste your comments everywhere, instead of writing something original when you post, Schnauzer?
Do you really think your prose is so invaluable that you need to make sure that EVERYONE gets a chance to read it?
@tom tom
Yes I do.
Then you're as delusional and egotistical as Dickie the Dolt.
@tom tom
I can't speak for Richard, but you are quite incorrect about me.
Not based on the evidence presented, I'm not.
Religion as always will evolve to try and stay relevant.
"It was prophesied for a gay person to be ordained?"
Yes, in Liberace 4.32
Make it work people!
All of these things were prophesied to happen in the last days. Good would be called evil and evil would be called good. Do you think you can change God's Word and His will by popular vote? If so, then God becomes our servant and He is now subject to our will. As for me and my house, we will continue to honor God's Word (without changing it) and we will obey and serve the Lord Jesus Christ.
It was also prophesied that jesus would come back within one generation. so who cares
It was prophesied for a gay person to be ordained?
It is prophesied that wrong will be called right and right will be called left and .... wait how's that go again?
1st off.. you are wrong in saying it is "God's Word".. There is no such thing as "God's Word", only some writing which you prefer to believe is God's Word. Just because you say it is doesn't make it so..
"As for me and my house, we will continue to honor God's Word (without changing it) and we will obey and serve the Lord Jesus Christ." I can only imagine if you found out how many times 'God's Word' had been changed, your wee little brain would explode...
The "last days" have been expected soon for 2,000 years and so they've been wrong for 2,000 years. Nothing new.
@Jesus is Lord: AMEN!
Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised?
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
well actually
where two or more are gathered blah blah blah
the bible says that god will hold true in heaven what two or more hold true on earth
so technically
that means your god is supposed to do what its told
put the lotion in the basket or whatever
the bible also says that whatever you ask for youll receive
and if you read closely you wont find a clause that says
youlll get anything that isnt gods will
so go pray for a mountain to move and see where that gets you
after all the bible says it will happen
It also says that there things in God's Word that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, to their own destruction.
"and it's a big moment for our church that has has excluded gays and lesbians for so many decades, so it's a new day for us,"
--Well, maybe. First we have been there all along. They might have thought they were "excluding" us, but we were there all along. Giving a LOT of our money, working alongside everyone else on their projects and charities. Second, I wonder if these people understand that this is another crack in the foundation of the "belief" system of Christianity. If their concept of "human nature" is flawed, then why would their concept of "divine nature" or anything else be safe ? The whole thing will crash down in a few years.
Sadly I disagree, as I mentioned above religion will always evolve to survive. It should have crashed and burned with galileo, darwin, and bohr but is still ticking thanks to fearful gullible humans who will believe anything to escape their fear of death and insignificance.
It's not going to crash down anytime soon, especially in our lifetime. What I expect to see are small, relatively "positive" changes in religion to adapt to modern society. It's been happening in christianity since it first got established. Hopefully, it will follow the course of all obsolete religions of antiquity.
It's neat to know we are in the primordial stages of the end of religion today as we know it.. what with the age of enlightenment and reason and the development of all areas of science. I just wish I could see the day that our future generations live in a completely different world without self-soothing fairytales of the afterlife and an imaginary fascist dictator making of list of who has been naught or nice. That's my optimistic hope for the future. My pessimist fear is mutually assured annihilation.
There may always be religion in some form or other, but specific religions do sometimes go extinct. I, for instance, used to be big in Northwestern Europe. These days I walk dogs and have a newspaper route just to scr-ape by.