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October 18th, 2011
10:29 AM ET

Opinion: Who does God want in the White House?

Editor's note: LZ Granderson, who writes a weekly column for CNN.com, was named Journalist of the Year by the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association and is a 2011 Online Journalism Award finalist for commentary. 

By LZ Granderson, CNN Contributor

Grand Rapids, Michigan (CNN) - Vote for me or burn in hell.

I can't imagine someone running for office saying that.

And yet four candidates - Michele Bachmann, Herman Cain, Rick Perry and Rick Santorum - have said they had a sense that God was leading them to run. How far can we be from "vote for me or burn in hell" when it seems we're already comfortable with "vote for me, I've been called by God"?

Read LZ Granderson's commentary
- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Herman Cain • Michele Bachmann • Opinion • Politics • Rick Perry • Rick Santorum

soundoff (386 Responses)
  1. Quintessential

    Which Republican does God want in the White House?

    A pretty difficult question considering you won't be voting for any of the above.

    October 20, 2011 at 1:00 am |
  2. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    Hey, fred, do tell us all how god was "kicked out of public schools" you pea-brain.

    October 19, 2011 at 10:01 pm |
    • fred

      Tom
      When you are capable of posting a comment without an insult in it, then you'll be worthy of a response. Until then, I'm just going to report all of your posts.

      October 19, 2011 at 10:24 pm |
    • Vote

      Say 'Yay' to Fred.
      We second your suggestion.

      October 19, 2011 at 10:32 pm |
    • Observer

      Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,

      Why not find out why you are so hostile and incapable of carrying on a mature, sane conversation without mindless insults?

      October 19, 2011 at 10:42 pm |
    • Quintessential

      It's called secularization: And it leads to dehumanization.

      October 20, 2011 at 12:53 am |
    • Observer

      Secularization seems to be a natural progression as people get more educated.

      October 20, 2011 at 1:04 am |
    • ThinkForYourself

      "It's called secularization: And it leads to dehumanization."

      Yup, because we all know that religion never dehumanizes people. Except when its used to defend slavery. Or start wars. Or to try and prohibit interracial couples from marrying. Or to bomb abortion clinics. Or when it's telling hom.ose.xuals that they're 'not natural'.

      On second thought, maybe you want to rethink your as.sumption.

      October 20, 2011 at 8:33 am |
  3. HotAirAce

    If there really is an all powerful god and it actually had a preference, why would it bother with a drawn out convoluted election process? Talk about mysterious ways! Way more likely that no god exists.

    October 19, 2011 at 9:18 pm |
  4. Muneef

    Was told that GOD want those in every Rainbow House in the World;

    Volume 9, Book 89, Number 260:
    Narrated 'Abdur-Rahman bin Samura:

    The Prophet said, "O 'Abdur-Rahman! Do not seek to be a ruler, for if you are given authority on your demand then you will be held responsible for it, but if you are given it without asking (for it), then you will be helped (by Allah) in it. If you ever take an oath to do something and later on you find that something else is better, then you should expiate your oath and do what is better."
    --

    Volume 9, Book 89, Number 262:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:

    The Prophet said, "You people will be keen to have the authority of ruling which will be a thing of regret for you on the Day of Resurrection. What an excellent wet nurse it is, yet what a bad weaning one it is!"
    ---

    Volume 9, Book 89, Number 263:
    Narrated Abu Musa:

    Two men from my tribe and I entered upon the Prophet. One of the two men said to the Prophet, "O Allah's Apostle! Appoint me as a governor," and so did the second. The Prophet said, "We do not assign the authority of ruling to those who ask for it, nor to those who are keen to have it."
    --–

    Volume 9, Book 89, Number 264:
    Narrated Ma'qil:

    I heard the Prophet saying, "Any man whom Allah has given the authority of ruling some people and he does not look after them in an honest manner, will never feel even the smell of Paradise."

    ---

    Volume 9, Book 89, Number 265:
    Narrated Ma'qil:

    Allah's Apostle said, "If any ruler having the authority to rule Muslim subjects dies while he is deceiving them, Allah will forbid Paradise for him."
    ---

    October 19, 2011 at 7:19 pm |
    • Muneef

      What would GOD what from us as nations of those rainbow houses to do;

      Volume 9, Book 89, Number 251:

      Narrated Abu Huraira:

      Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever obeys me, obeys Allah, and whoever disobeys me, disobeys Allah, and whoever obeys the ruler I appoint, obeys me, and whoever disobeys him, disobeys me."
      --–
      Volume 9, Book 89, Number 252:
      Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

      Allah's Apostle said, "Surely! Everyone of you is a guardian and is responsible for his charges: The Imam (ruler) of the people is a guardian and is responsible for his subjects; a man is the guardian of his family (household) and is responsible for his subjects; a woman is the guardian of her husband's home and of his children and is responsible for them; and the slave of a man is a guardian of his master's property and is responsible for it. Surely, everyone of you is a guardian and responsible for his charges."
      ----
      Volume 9, Book 89, Number 256:
      Narrated Anas bin Malik:

      Allah's Apostle said, "You should listen to and obey, your ruler even if he was an Ethiopian (black) slave whose head looks like a raisin."
      --–
      Volume 9, Book 89, Number 258:
      Narrated 'Abdullah:

      The Prophet said, "A Muslim has to listen to and obey (the order of his ruler) whether he likes it or not, as long as his orders involve not one in disobedience (to Allah), but if an act of disobedience (to Allah) is imposed one should not listen to it or obey it. (See Hadith No. 203, Vol. 4).
      ---–

      October 19, 2011 at 7:23 pm |
    • Muneef

      Now here we learn that the Arabian Spring and the Rulers were or are not at all "Muslims"....! the rulers are false cheat and their nations are as of their creation...no wonder nothing will really change but rather the clip is replayed repeatedly with out true change...!! Seems that this is not only in the third world or Islamic world but as well in the western world where signs of the smoke of the coming fire is on the rise... New corrupted world with no manners,no morals no religion...emptiness only...!

      October 19, 2011 at 7:34 pm |
    • Muneef

      Now here we learn that the Arabian Spring and the Rulers were/are not at all "Muslims"....! the rulers were/are false cheat and their nations are as of their leaders...no wonder nothing will really change but rather the vedio clip is replayed repeatedly with out true change...!! Seems that this is not in the third world or Islamic world only but rather as well in the western world where there are signs of the rising smoke of the coming fire...because the new world became a corrupted place where there are no more manners,no morals no religion...nothing that could be taken a a genuine condact...it is just physical and spiritual emptiness only...! No Sharing No Caring...just hatred, selfishness and non ending greeds for Wealth..!

      October 19, 2011 at 7:43 pm |
    • Reality

      Where is Islam's paradise? To the right or left of the Christian Heaven?

      But onto our Operation "Save Muneef and 1.5 Billion Other Muslims" :

      Saving Muslims is quite easy!!! (developed by yours truly based on the studies of Armstrong, Rushdie, Hirsi Ali, Richardson and Bayhaqi)

      The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:
      ( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)

      Are you ready?

      Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

      The First Five of the 77 Branches:

      "1. Belief in Allah"

      aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your cleansing neurons.

      "2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

      Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

      "3. To believe in the existence of angels."

      A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

      "4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

      Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

      Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

      Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

      "5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him)
      alone."
      Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

      Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

      Unfortunately, there are not many Muslim commentators/readers on this blog so the "two-minute" cure is not getting to those who need it. If you have a Muslim friend, send him a copy and help save the world.

      Analogous steps are available at your request for deprogramming the myths of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Paganism..

      October 19, 2011 at 11:38 pm |
  5. G-D

    Your ancient Gods, I have made their lands to be your flesh-n-bones and they dwell inwardly and will no more find their way to the celestial shorelines. Only in death do they give back to ME that which they have stolen when at the dawn of enlightenment I alone did make manifest all celestial things that became MY MATERIAL BODY while the Nothingness is of MY HOLY SPIRIT. I care not among the thoughts of your feeble societies that cannot even live together in wholesomeness regards. MY LOve for this earth's celestial people is fast waning in the just and of the same ways that I did put distance between MY Sons and your people, I will again so do! Your heavenly rewards await those of sound righteousness and absolute fidelities while unrighteous Acts will be tried in ways unknown by you and your people. Be ye warned that I am a jealous G-D for of my Sons the Gods they will be avenged and judged in their solicitous actions that led your people astray and away from MY WILL!

    L0ve
    GOD

    October 19, 2011 at 4:19 pm |
    • hippypoet

      prove your god exists by first disprooving the existence of zues or any other god of your choice. This would be possible if your god existed as he did say that he is the one true god. so i await your proof of non existence of zues.

      October 19, 2011 at 4:54 pm |
    • Trystan

      Hippy, Zeus is easy to disprove. The gods of Greek mythology interacted with humans. We know that the gods lived on Mt. Olympus, and humans have been to the summit of this mountain many times. There are no temples, no houses, no Zeus, no other gods stomping around up there. Since the gods were flesh and blood, humans as I have already mentioned, could interact with the gods. Since there is nothing atop Mt. Olympus as once believed by the people who would later write the new testament, we know that Zeus never existed. We can also gather from this that the new testament is also a myth, just as Zeus was.

      October 19, 2011 at 7:26 pm |
    • hippypoet

      the place of the homes of the gods was according to myths was above the clouds on top of mt. O. but everything else you said i agree with.

      October 19, 2011 at 9:52 pm |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      According to Classical-era mythology, after the overthrow of the Tltans, the new pantheon of gods and goddesses was confirmed. Among the principal Greek gods were the Olympians, residing atop Mount Olympus under the eye of Zeus.

      October 19, 2011 at 10:10 pm |
  6. hippypoet

    I WILL RUN FOR THE HIGHEST OFFICE IN THE LAND!
    why?
    god told me to! just like the christians go to church on sunday, and the son of sam's niebhors dog told him to do things... its all clear now! yay move on. if'd you like there will be a cd rom sold at your local idiot stores soon to explain anything i may have missed,for information call -333-666-3825 i have dwarfs answering the phones now for your convinence. let it ring a few times, they are short and have a hard time answering... but i had to hire them- damn affirmitive action! i wanted elfs!

    October 19, 2011 at 3:34 pm |
  7. jj

    It would be nice if we could all live decent humane moral lives. But that does not mean that anyone should push an inflexible doctrine on all others. Our concept of god stems from the experiences of ancient humans with ETs who visited Earth. Read Zechariah Sitchin.

    October 19, 2011 at 3:10 pm |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      I'm sure Giorgio A. Tsoukalos believes in this theory deeply. But I can't take his hair seriously.

      http://www.facebook.com/pages/Giorgio-A-Tsoukalos-Hair/142172979128247

      October 19, 2011 at 7:30 pm |
  8. Alex Gessong

    If God wanted someone in the White House, God would put that person in the White House. If we believe that, then it follows that God wanted Barak Obama to be President. So, Mr. Cain and the other GOP candidates should back off and not try to interfere with what God wants. Alternatively, if we assume that God doesn't care who is in the White House, then it's silly for any candidate to claim that he/she is running because God wants him/her to run.

    October 19, 2011 at 3:09 pm |
    • Duh!

      "Alternatively, if we assume that God doesn't care who is in the White House, then it's silly for any candidate to claim that he/she is running because God wants him/her to run."

      LOL! Don't you remember that's what George W said, he got elected and ruined this country. LOL!

      October 19, 2011 at 3:12 pm |
  9. G-D

    G-D
    I knew my Son would fuddle things up,,, As it now stands, who then is left with open mindedness far away from perdition's gates to revel with soundness of mindings relavent to spiritual awakenings? Where have all the Gods hidden themsevles? Inwardly they do splurge themselves to jostle with smallminded gods whom the Gods use as fodder. Time is my keeper and I will just wait in Patience for their soon returning to be adjudicated by their righteous Acts and embittered Tribulations.
    I rule all things from the very smallest to the very largest. Nothingness is my Holy Spirit which traverses everywhere that things are.

    LoVe,
    G0D

    October 19, 2011 at 2:57 pm |
  10. AtrociAtheist

    It could be Christian or Muslim or Taoist, Buddhist, Scientologist, Pagan, Pastafarian, agnostic etc. but NEVER an atheist.

    I would prefer for a rabid dog in the white house than an atheist.

    October 19, 2011 at 2:37 pm |
    • G-D

      In G-D we be and by God are we constructed while as gods we are made manifested. BTW, As a spokesperson, I cannot adhere to the Acts and /or actions of atheisms that belittle and do bemoan any and all religious perceptions of the people.

      L0VE
      GOD

      October 19, 2011 at 2:52 pm |
    • Alex Gessong

      @AtroiciAtheist: Atheism is based on rational thought. On clear-minded acceptance of objective, measurable reality. In general, an atheist would be a far better choice for political leadership than would a follower of any religion. Religious belief is based on nothing except a willingness to believe. It's really no different from believing in fairies or unicorns. Religion has been used as "justifcation" for wars and acts of terrorism for centuries. People have been tortured and killed because they believed in the "wrong" religion. Personally, I'm not an atheist, but would have absolutely no problem with an atheist political leader. religion should be a personal thing, not a public policy thing. It has no place in politics.

      October 19, 2011 at 3:03 pm |
    • BRC

      Just for the sake of theoretical discussion- how would you react if they unnearthed a scroll that predated the official forming of Judaism, and laid out the stories that would later become the old testament, and explained that they were all simply imagined stories, that a similar letter was found, detailing the intention to concoct the new testament, and create a new church to garner more followers, no religious inspiration involved, meanwhile, the Large Hadron Collider exceeds sciences wildest expectaions and finds a sub-atomic particle that is actually capable of bridging th egap between matter and energy, phasing in between the two in a form we had never experienced before (this is science fiction for the purpose of discussion). Without needing "God" for either the provider of Scripture or as teh initiator of the universe, would you still insist on his existence, or would you consider atheism a possibility?

      October 19, 2011 at 3:05 pm |
    • Duh!

      "Without needing "God" for either the provider of Scripture or as teh initiator of the universe, would you still insist on his existence, or would you consider atheism a possibility"

      Ummm the con's figured that might happen so they wrote into the con that you're not allowed to doubt it's integrity. LMAO!

      October 19, 2011 at 3:09 pm |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      Atheists stay out of politics as much as possible due to the consistent integration of religious beliefs in the actions of politicians. In short, it is illogical, impractical and completely insane to even want to get into the corruption of politics, just as it is equally illogical, impractical and completely insane to believe in the bible, koran or any other laughable religious text. There you have it. Religion and politics are one in the same, both comprised of extreme belief systems. Now, why would any of us want to take part in that? You go ahead and keep your bible, your politics and your rabid dog. I'll enjoy my dinner without living under the umbrella of fear that I'll burn in hell for my unimaginable transgressions.

      October 19, 2011 at 7:36 pm |
  11. WhatWhatWhat?

    Wow, that is so delusional. Anyone who believes in things that are not true, like a global flood that never happened, or a boat that never existed, purportedly with all species of animals that are here today, or the suffering and death of everyone who doesn't believe in jebus, you are a scary individual and should never be trusted to any office, none the less the presidency. These people are loons of astronomical proportions.

    October 19, 2011 at 2:23 pm |
  12. hippypoet

    MUHAHAHAHAHA, THE ALMIGHTY SUN WANTS ME IN THE WHITE HOUSE...

    ...clearly!

    October 19, 2011 at 1:46 pm |
  13. Debet

    This question is easy. Whoever God wants in the W.H. is who ever gets voted in. God can use anyone for his ways.

    October 19, 2011 at 1:37 pm |
    • Chuckles

      Riiiiiight, I forgot that whenever something happens god did it, unless its like, a tornado, earthquake, famine, a democrat, etc.... then that's satan right? I can never tell the difference because so much bad sh.it happens and sometimes it's god and he has a plan and sometimes its just satan being a douc.he, but thank you jeebus we have christians who can talk to god and know his plan even though his plan is unknowable.

      October 19, 2011 at 1:41 pm |
    • whynot

      God lets it happen. I don't know why either but he just does. All I know is that I am eternally secure and in Christ.

      October 19, 2011 at 3:53 pm |
    • whynot

      One last comment. How can the created question the Creator what he is doing. You can't.

      October 19, 2011 at 3:54 pm |
    • BRC

      Of course a construct can question its creator. 1) The construct typically never asked to be created. 2) The construct cannot be expected to understand the world it is placed in without instruction from its creator. To not provide this instruction and necessary answers is irresponsible. 3) There is no garauntee the creator got everything right, it would be in any constructs nature to be unsure during self reflection (if capable of self reflection).

      That is of course an entirely academic disproof of your statement. I personally don't believe we can ask "god" anything because I don't think there is a god to ask.

      October 19, 2011 at 4:02 pm |
    • hippypoet

      whynot

      "One last comment. How can the created question the Creator what he is doing. You can't."

      what makes you think YOUR god created anything? and according to the stories of YOUR god, we are given the power to chose, so yes we can question the so called creator!
      also what makes you so sure that if YOUR god exists others like him/her don't?

      October 19, 2011 at 4:03 pm |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      I'd like to see this alleged creator drop down from the sky and stop me from questioning. I hope it can afford a parachute. I hear that these days, church attendance is down thus slowing the inflow of biblically required paycheck taxes.

      October 19, 2011 at 8:01 pm |
  14. kimsland

    Religion was BANNED from public schools years ago.
    Doesn't that tell you religious fools anything?
    Keep your idiotic religious thoughts to yourself.
    And do me a favor, forget taking kids to mind destructive church.
    Here I'll speak on their behalf. I Don't Want To Go To Church Mommy and Daddy. Then DON'T FORCE THEM TOO.
    Geez, a little respect for your own kids, what kid wants to go to church? Its boring and dumb.

    October 19, 2011 at 9:47 am |
    • ccd is bs

      i was forced as a child, i screamed i don't want to... and yet i was made to becuase as a child you pretty much have no rights.... yay for civilized life!

      October 19, 2011 at 10:33 am |
    • BRC

      I was quite fortunate. My Dad made sure noone made me do anything when I was a young child (I wasn't even baptized). When I was 5, I went to church with a friend to see what it was about. Made it about 10-15 minutes before I was certain that I wanted nothing to do with it, and spent the rest of the time wondering how people believing what was being said, when it didn't make any sense. Mom wasn't thrilled, but my parents let me make all of my own decisions about "spirituality" growing up, so there are good ones out there.

      October 19, 2011 at 10:39 am |
    • augustghost

      And God sent his only son on a suicide mission.....what else can you say?

      October 19, 2011 at 10:45 am |
    • hippypoet

      i'm right there with "ccd is bs" my father and i fought all day before going to my first ccd class. i screamed at him "i don't want to be a fuking christian" those were my exact words at 6 years old....next thing i knew i was in a ccd class asking questions about things like how did Abraham live so long, and why did god allow cain to kill able... my teachers didn't have the anwers and i said if your going to teach it you should know it... so i got kicked out the first day, my father brought me back in the next class.... i did the same thing on top of making the other kids laugh at my jesus jokes. 🙂 Now i know more then my father about his faith and i still don't believe.... there is a lesson to be learned here for all believers, its nothing more then social programming and brainwashing.

      October 19, 2011 at 11:00 am |
    • isaac

      @kimsland – then you and your liberal fanatics will force your beliefs on my kids. No thank you. You can have your colleges, the dark pools of wickedness and immorality. You say Christians force their beliefs on our kids, but you do you same by saying that any religious conservative is stupid. What is it that you truly believe? Tell me that and we might have a starting point for discussion. I'd also recommend looking up the statics for teenage violence, teen pregnancy, abortion rates, divorce etc after "religion" was removed from schools. You might surprised. But most likely you just won't care.

      October 19, 2011 at 12:08 pm |
    • kimsland

      Its interesting to read your stories.
      Those replies are worthy for this 'belief' blog, I'd like a column just on them.
      For the record I wasn't baptized either, my parents although semi-religious, were forced into religious schools when they were kids, and I think hearing their stories made me wake up myself.

      More of this, I say

      October 19, 2011 at 12:13 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @isaac

      HA! First of all, colleges are darkpools? Why is it that believers spit on the academia? Why is having a desire to learn and having enough wherewithall to get a good education a bad thing? Secondly, you might want to take a look at those stats yourself, you might find that regardless of religion being present or not, the stats on teen violence, abortion rates, divorce, etc... is literally the same, there is no difference.

      October 19, 2011 at 12:18 pm |
    • fred

      Kimsland
      You cheer that Jesus was kicked out of public schools yet the results are nothing to be proud of.
      When religion and prayer was in the public schools violence was non existent. This created more freedom for all. Just a short period of time since we tossed Jesus out our public schools are a wasteland of bullies and left wing teachings. How is that working for us so far? Our country moved from an education system that was looked up to around the world into one that produces kids that cannot compete with foreign education.
      You kicked Jesus out but you left a void. England kicked Jesus out and that void is being filled with Islam.
      You kicked out reference to 4,ooo years of Gods moral code and now teach "modern Enron ethics" in school . Yep we really thought that one out.

      October 19, 2011 at 12:42 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @fred

      You're dreaming, delusional or both if you think violence was non-existant in schools, ever. That's just plain idiotic. It may not have been publicized as much or as easy with present technology but to think that life was pleasentville up until religion was removed from school is exactly why our education is in shambles now. It's people of your ilk that is litearlly shoving the breaks on any educational development because you think religion is correct and nothing else can be. Get a clue, get a brain, get something.

      October 19, 2011 at 12:45 pm |
    • fred

      Chuckles
      I am sure you have this before on this site but just in case you are wondering why our universitie graduates today have Enron ethics and why wallstreet Harvard grads could care less about anything other than bottom line it is because Jesus is out and self worship is in.!
      Of the first 108 universities founded in America, 106 were distinctly Christian, including the first, Harvard University, chartered in 1636. In the original Harvard Student Handbook, rule number 1 was that students seeking entrance must know Latin and Greek so that they could study the Scriptures: "Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, (John 17:3); and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and learning. And seeing the Lord only giveth wisdom, let every one seriously set himself by prayer in secret to seek it of him (Proverbs 2:3)."
      Yeah, we threw out the core of our soul that made us great and replaced it with nothing

      October 19, 2011 at 12:59 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @fred

      First, people do bad things, schools don't teach people to do bad things. You should probably figure that out because corruption and evil has been around before 1950, I can promise you that. Secondly, especially BECAUSE of Enron, schools are pushing ethics classes in business schools around the country because they're trying to instill in students that they have to be fair and equi.table, you can't blame academia or universities for the creation of bad people. You also ignore the fact that the incredibly ra.cist, s.exist, hom.ophoic rules in places that forced students to learn greek and latin to read the scriptures weren't exactly promoting the best type of morality.

      October 19, 2011 at 1:08 pm |
    • ThinkForYourself

      Wow, fred, you're quite the pessimist. Would you prefer to go back to the 50's when it was hard for women to get a job, african americans had fewer rights, when violence on minorities was often overlooked, when those who were gay felt oppressed and fearful to even be themselves, where school bullies weren't even punished because no one even recognized bullying as an issue? Maybe we should make it ok for parents to beat their kids again. Things are only relatively worse now if you're a middle aged white male (a category which I fit neatly in to) because your privileged status in this society has been ever-so-slightly lowered.

      October 19, 2011 at 1:09 pm |
    • Ogre

      fred, It's wasn't taking Jesus out of the schools that caused the decline in behavior - it was disallowing corporal punishment. A good crack on the knuckles with a ruler or a painful paddling in the principal's office did the trick, doncha know?

      "Children should be seen and not heard"
      "Do as I say, not as I do"
      "The debil will get ya' if you don't watch out"

      October 19, 2011 at 1:18 pm |
    • fred

      Chuckles
      Ogre
      Kicking God out ihad serious effects you cannot deny. In 1962 prayer was kicked out of public schools and the result according to USA news and reports: During that period (approximately 1965-80), real expenditures per student doubled as teacher ratios declined by one-fourth. Meanwhile, student achievement deteriorated badly by every available measure. For an ordinary business to double its inputs, yet somehow manage to produce less is unthinkable, but that's what happened to American education in this roughly 15-year period leading up to 1980.

      October 19, 2011 at 1:23 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @fred

      I seriously hope you don't actually believe the crap you spew out on this board. To say that removing prayer from school is the direct and only effect on education (meanwhile disregarding the civil rights movement, recessions, rise of other nations, etc....) is just plain stupid. I understand you want to find a singular cause, but if everything in the world were as cut and dry as you put it, we would have clearly already reinsti.tuted your idea back into schools.

      October 19, 2011 at 1:26 pm |
    • Colin

      Fred, your missing a little thing called causal connection. Just beacuse A preceeds B does not mean A caused B. The crowing c.ock does not cause the sun to rise.

      October 19, 2011 at 1:27 pm |
    • Ogre

      fred, "[1965-80]...teacher ratios declined by one-fourth."

      So, when Jesus left school, so did a bunch of the teachers?

      Remind your kids at home to pray to Jesus or Allah or Ganesh or Quetzalcoatl (if you really feel that you *must*) - it is NOT the schools' nor the teachers' place to do it.

      If Jesus wants to hover atop the blackboard, he is free to do so. (Hint: he won't/can't do it)

      October 19, 2011 at 1:37 pm |
    • G-D

      Ever since religion has been banned within the "PUBLIC" school system, has not the American society in wholeness been sliding down the economic slope into ruinous depravity? Seems to my 'brainyard' that there is a commonality and ever occurring social theme here. People who have one eye shut tightly in relgion dogma and the other focused upon the intermediary influential carcasses of speculative bastions do pension their life away to the devil's advocates who seemingly do not care one way or the other about the social cultures weighted dominions of today's lowly classes. All G-D can do is watch,

      My L0VE
      god by God and one with GOD

      October 19, 2011 at 2:00 pm |
    • fred

      Colin this is the prayer that Madalyn Murray O'Hair founder of American Atheists, Inc . objected to thus ending prayer and Bible reading in school: “Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence upon Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers and our country. Amen”
      How can you say this prayer recited daily to all students had no effect? I agree that you never know what a crowing co.ck will get a rise out of but, there is an effect. It sits in the back of your mind and sub consciously a reverence will linger even if you do not go to church. When Harvard had Scripture as its center graduates left with a different “soul” compared with modern graduates expecting servants rather than an att-itude to serve.

      October 19, 2011 at 2:08 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @fred

      Idiocy in it's most pure form. Why fred, why are you ignoring just about everything else that can have an effect on education in America and basing it soley on removing prayer from public schools? If you think it's instilling morals (somehow) then why not just promote the reading of the school rules at the start of every school day? It would achieve (actually it would be abundantly clearer) what is/is not acceptable. Not to mention, you want to make every kid state they are dependent on a god they may or may not believe in which has no place in public education. It never did, whether it was incorporated before not, it has never had a place in schools. Your examnation of why public education has fallen so low (even though as a society as a whole more people are educated and literate now than they ever were in America) clearly shows that you have no concept of thinking even sort of critically.

      October 19, 2011 at 2:15 pm |
    • WhatWhatWhat?

      Right on, the same thing happened here. It's ironic, or maybe moronic, that jebus says not to use contraception or have abortions, but we sure have the right to brainwash kids, as soon as they're born, with bu||shlT. There ought to be a law that says you can't teach kids christinsanity until they're old enough to be taught evolution, and if you don't want them to learn evolution, then they can't learn christinsanity. That seems fair to me.

      October 19, 2011 at 2:32 pm |
    • Duh!

      "When religion and prayer was in the public schools violence was non existent. "

      LMAO! Wow the stupidity of some people is just astounding. Well, Duh....Let's see there was racial segregation, girls were kept separated and not given an equal education. Yeah, that was a really great system. NOT!

      October 19, 2011 at 2:57 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Colin

      Hey buddy ! 😀

      You Said: " Fred, your missing a little thing called causal connection. Just beacuse A preceeds B does not mean A caused B. The crowing c.ock does not cause the sun to rise. "

      Well said... I believe that is a great example of the *'Post hoc ergo propter hoc* 'fallacy' (after this, therefore... because of this).

      Peace...

      October 19, 2011 at 2:57 pm |
    • Colin

      Peace. Where u been, dude? I thought you must have run off to South America with Michele Bachmann......

      October 19, 2011 at 3:01 pm |
    • fred

      Chuckles
      Neither one of us can accurately measure what effect kicking God out of school had relative to other changes in society. You cannot deny it had effect and this bothers you. It bothers you on several levels. The biggest being that if Gods prayer has effect then either God or prayer is effective though not measurable. You now are aware that you do not have the tools necessary for the job thus you must become agnostic until such a time as a tool is developed.
      Since you have called me a tool, I can be of help. God cannot be reached through reason yet you continue to apply the useless logic of the Greeks and constructs of their reasoning. The believers continue to tell you that is not the way to God yet you refuse to follow. I am not aware of any downside to following God are you? Do you not find it interesting that Jesus did not begin His journey to the cross until the Greeks arrived? Those who coined logos finally understood that to see God requires a willingness to admit reason is not enough, it is never enough.

      October 19, 2011 at 3:03 pm |
    • brad

      They've banned religion from schools. That's fine, it was higher,deeper and broader than kids or teachers could understand anyway. I'm so much more comfortable with the guns, knives, bullying, drugs, teenage pregnancies, and mediocrity going on in our stink-hole schools today. But then, I'm strange like that.

      October 19, 2011 at 3:03 pm |
    • Colin

      School prayer should be mandatory. Rather than doing our best to keep Jefferson’s wall of separation between children and school prayer, I am going to suggest that we let the kids see for themslves how much it is worth.

      We set up a very simple physics or chemistry experiment. Say, a strip of blue litmus paper with a test tube of an acidic solution poised above it. We have all the students in class pray to god that it will not turn red when the test tube is upended and the acid pours on it. We then upturn the test tube and see what happens.

      It will, of course, turn red.

      We do this experiment every day, sometimes substi.tuting red litmus paper for blue litmus paper and an alkali solution for the acid solution – with the appropriate change in the prayer. We can also do other simple experiments – two identical poles of a magnet always being repulsive, with the students praying that they will attract.

      We do these experiments every day of every year for their entire high school experience, with the children praying each day that the result will be different. As we know, their prayers to their gods will fail every day of every week of every year. Every single time, without doubt and 100% guaranteed.

      After a few months of repeated failures, the students are invited to bring along their priests, ministers, rabbis, imams, and other religious authority figures to lead their prayers. They can all pray, chant, implore and bob to their various sky-deities that the litmus paper does not turn red. We can also bring in some gulf War veterans who lost limbs, and they can pray for their recovery.

      We even have special “open” days where they are invited to bring along the Pope, Archbishop of Canterbury, Dalia Lama, head of the Orthodox Church, the USA’s most sacred rabbi etc., etc. to join their prayers.

      As we know, their prayers to their gods will still fail every day of every week of every year. Every single time, without doubt and 100% guaranteed. A couple of practical realities we would have to guard are the occasional “flop” where, for example, a bad batch of acid has been delivered and the litmus paper does not change color (we don’t want anybody to claim that a prayer was answered) or intentional sabotage by those with a religious agenda, but that is no different to the risks of any other science experiment.

      In this manner, prayer can “put up or shut up.” It is preferable to me that we expose the children to prayer in their formative years and let them see for themselves how utterly worthless it is, rather than try to keep prayer from them. The constant radio silence from above and the stoic indifference with which their prayers are met every day will help the students understand:

      (i) that there is no god listening and that praying is a futile exercise when the results can REALLY be tested;

      (ii) the complete superiority of the scientific method over religious supersti.tions, as science accurately predicts the results of each experiment every time;

      (iii) the silliness of still believing in Bronze Age sky-gods in the 21st Century;

      (iii) the frailties of their religious leaders as they scurry for excuses –“god won’t be tested”, “god moves in mysterious ways” etc; and

      (iv) the weakness of human nature as the religious right moves to shut the experiments down.

      October 19, 2011 at 3:08 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @Colin

      Hey dude... I've been extremely busy with work, so it has left me with little time for playin' here with my cronies on the belief blog. I'm trying to fit some time in as I can.

      South America and Michelle Bachmann, eh...? 😯 LOL...!!

      Peace brother...

      October 19, 2011 at 3:15 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @fred

      Awwww freddy boy, back tracking a little now are we? Can I say if removing prayer from schools had a good or bad effect on education? No, no I can not. That's no an issue for me. I think you're issue here is you say that prayer was removed from school thus (through wacky reasoning) education is now in the sh.itter because of that without any evidence or proof, just a bunch of ends that you're using as means, which doesn't work. Can you prove to me that a kid won't bully another kid if they recite an idiotic prayer before the start of school? Is there no bullying ever in church? Was there no bullying before prayer was removed? Like I said, fred you represent idiocy in its highest form, especially showing a disdain for logic and reason because..... well honestly I don't have a clue why you think it's a good thing that you have to suspend all logic and reason in order to understand god. I can promise you that is NOT a virtue and should never be promoted as such.

      Listen to Colins idea, really test god. Apparently he answers all things except you actually call on him to show himself. As a believer maybe you can help an atheist out. Since you never ever believe that an atheist would sincerely call on god and come to the conclusion that god most likely doesn't exist, want to call god for us? Ask god to reveal himself unequivocally so that us "sinners and heretics" will learn the error of our ways? He doesn't have to come down from heaven, he could just make it rain frogs, remove cancer or regrow a couple of missing limbs. For an omnipotent god it shouldn't be an issue right?

      October 19, 2011 at 3:18 pm |
    • Bev

      Don't we as parents, have to ask our children to do things they don't want to do. That is what it means to be a parent. To teach. I am a Christian and very proud to be. For your sake, I hope that I am wrong, because if I am right, you will burn. For my sake, I am glad that I am a Christian, because I will be at peace when I am dying. How will you be feeling?

      October 19, 2011 at 3:22 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Fred

      Colin is exactly right. You have to be careful with correlations. You may find that as ice cream sales increase, so do shark attacks. So, if we stopped selling ice cream at the beach, would this stop shark attacks? I think we wouldn't want to just assume that. Often there is a 3rd factor or multiple factors, each contributing to a problem. The major factor in both the ice cream sales and the shark attacks, may be found to be warmer weather which brings out people to eat the ice cream. The sharks now have more opportunities to eat the people.

      Cheers!

      October 19, 2011 at 3:24 pm |
    • Duh!

      "For my sake, I am glad that I am a Christian, because I will be at peace when I am dying. How will you be feeling"

      You don't need a god to be at peace when you die. I am not afraid to die and if I died this instance I would be at peace because I know I am loved and I have loved many, that I help those that needed it most, I saved many lives and I would leave without any regrets. I laugh often, I have earned the appreciation of honest critics and I left the world a bit better.

      October 19, 2011 at 3:28 pm |
    • Ogre

      Bev:
      "Don't we as parents, have to ask our children to do things they don't want to do. That is what it means to be a parent. To teach."

      Teaching things with verified evidence is the goal.
      –"Wash your hands" because there is verified evidence for the existence of harmful germs.
      –"Careful crossing the street" because there is verified evidence of the danger.
      –"Don't stick anything into the electrical socket" because there is verified evidence of the danger.
      –"Knock on wood when you boast, or you will have bad luck." – there is NO verified evidence for this.
      –"Jesus is your savior" – there is NO verified evidence for this.

      –and–

      "For my sake, I am glad that I am a Christian, because I will be at peace when I am dying."
      Do you have any idea how many people, over many, many centuries, were at peace when they died because they believed in Ra?

      - and -

      Your "believe or burn" statement is so disgusting that it only merits a big, "BS!"

      October 19, 2011 at 3:42 pm |
    • fred

      Colin
      Thank you for encouraging prayer in the classroom this morning. I will use it as a teaching moment for our students. Students will learn that God sometimes answers prayers with a no or in a way you did not expect. Either way we will learn prayer is communication with God and it always changes who we are and how we respond to joy and trouble.

      Since you asked for prayer of red or blue I suggest you watch for either those two. Oftentimes your own prayer will test you

      October 19, 2011 at 3:53 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @fred and Bev

      *Face palm*

      October 19, 2011 at 4:15 pm |
    • Colin

      Bev, to answer your question, an atheist cannot fear death in the way the theist does. For a start, we know that the whole final judgment story, where you may be sent to hell if you fail, is Dark Ages nonsense meant to keep the Church’s authority. We also know that we were dead for 13,700,000,000 years before we were born. It is impossible for an atheist to fear death, for the simple reason that we know the capacity to fear (or to feel pain or discomfort) itself dies.

      Hell, we will not even know we are dead. Fear of death is as meaningless to the atheist as is the fear of a vacuum, the fear of not being born. I personally feel a lot more secure, and indeed a deep comfort, in this knowledge, than I would in trying to yoke myself to some quasi-hope that every part of my intellect tells me is untenable.

      As to your "believe what I say or burn" admonishment, does that really make sense to you? Why would a god spend its time hiding, refusing to give any tangible evidence of its existence, and then punish those who draw the natural and entirely reasonable conclusion that it does not exist by burning them forever. That would make no sense, given that it was the one who withheld evidence of its existence in the first place.

      No, my friend, neither the fear of death nor the fear of monsters can cause a person to believe in things that are simply nonsensical to them.

      October 19, 2011 at 4:17 pm |
    • fred

      Chuckles
      Perhaps being an atheist is very close to being a believer. You are blind in ways I am not so let the blind lead the blind. You skipped right over rule number 1 in the original Harvard handbook so let me repeat it: “students seeking entrance must know Latin and Greek so that they could study the Scriptures: "Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, (John 17:3); and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and learning. And seeing the Lord only giveth wisdom, let every one seriously set himself by prayer in secret to seek it of him (Proverbs 2:3)."
      Now, tell me through your eyes how it is possible Harvard students were not impacted in any way, shape or form with this prime directive #1. I understand you cannot measure it but you cannot deny affect.

      October 19, 2011 at 4:21 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @fred

      You're starting to give me a headache because I keep rubbing my head trying to understand your stupidity. Never did I say there was NO effect, there could have been, then again do you not find it morally reprehensible to ask every student, regardless of their religious creed, to know greek and latin so they can read the bible? Do you not see just how stupid that actually is? It will never be reinsti.tuted because a fair amount of people would get pretty annoyed that a college that isn't founded as a jesuit college is forcing its students to learn christian theology when all they wanted was to get prime education. If you can show me how this rule in anyway has led to the effects you've cited are currently happening today instead of stupidly saying "they used to pray, now they don't and harvard is now a giant or.gy because of it" then I might see you're side, but like so many have posted before me and how Colin put it originally, "Fred, your missing a little thing called causal connection. Just beacuse A preceeds B does not mean A caused B. The crowing c.ock does not cause the sun to rise."

      October 19, 2011 at 4:27 pm |
    • Ogre

      fred,

      I'm afraid I just don't get your Harvard tack here. Harvard was and is a private university. It was founded in 1636 and named for its first donor, Reverend John Harvard. Although it was never formally affiliated with a church, the college primarily trained Congregationalist and Unitarian clergy. Your Rules Book was from those early days.

      October 19, 2011 at 4:45 pm |
    • fred

      Ogre
      I was replying to the cheers that prayer and Bible study was taken out of schools. My first example was Harvard grads that were exposed to a Biblical foundation were more inclined towards good than today’s secular ethics class grads. Public schools were also less violent when daily prayer and Bible study was allowed up through 1962. In short I believe it was daily reflection, even in a non believer, that set a tone in school and community which leaned towards “goodness”.

      October 19, 2011 at 5:05 pm |
    • Chuckles

      @fred

      I'm sick of calling you stupid so I hope you know it's implied now.

      Your comment to Ogre actually is saying 2 different things. If you think that it was a little silent mediation before school started each day, I could jump on the wagon with you on that one and might want it to be insti.tuted, I think that could actually help kids center themselves before starting the day, however that is not prayer, nor does it force a particular view onto kids.

      As for your Harvard example, well lets just say you either have incredibly terrible analytical and reading comprehension skills or you are willfully ignoring everything because you are sure you are right, without any proof to back it up.

      October 19, 2011 at 5:12 pm |
    • Ogre

      fred,

      The early 60s was when color TV became popular. "That" must've been the onset of hell and havoc. Either that or "Elvis the Pelvis" did it. 🙂

      If you want prayers in school, send your kids to private, religious schools.

      October 19, 2011 at 5:16 pm |
    • fred

      Chuckles
      You said “If you can show me how this rule in anyway has led to the effects you've cited are currently happening today”
      Since we have mental block when it comes to Christians let us switch to a common enemy. The Saudis funded educational books that glamorized suicide killings and hate of America /Jews. These public schools released an estimated 20,000 terrorists that are inclined to kill rather than love. The US government after 911 finally put pressure on them to remove this glorification from text books. Unfortunately, they did not but at least they all acknowledge the impact of daily ‘bible’ study. Would we have had 911 if this daily ‘bible’ study had not gone on for 18 years. No. Would Americans be dying no.

      October 19, 2011 at 5:26 pm |
    • *frank*

      Your stupidity is remarkable even for this board, which is no negligible feat.

      October 19, 2011 at 6:19 pm |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      Fred, the 700 Club is not a valid source of information.

      October 19, 2011 at 8:12 pm |
    • tallulah13

      I agree with your initial post, kim. Frankly, the nonsensical arguments posted here by the "believers" are proof enough that religion, if taken too seriously, limits your desire to learn. They wouldn't want someone teaching islam or hindu to their children, yet they think so much of themselves they believe they have the right to force their religion on other people's children. Such arrogance.

      October 20, 2011 at 1:18 am |
    • Duh

      Chuckles – Wow dude – you have some serious patience to continue to reply to fred's stupidity. Kudos on taking the time to reply. It's sad to know that mindless people like fred exist in this world.

      October 20, 2011 at 8:17 am |
    • ThinkForYourself

      @fred,

      So ... let me get this straight. Your argument is that state-sponsored (e.g. Saudi) religious involvement in public education (e.g. islam = good, christainity/judaism = bad) is a bad thing that can result in harm to those who don't buy into the state religion. I think I'd have to pretty much agree. I don't understand why you think it would be ok to just change the nation and religion. If you want a theocracy, move elsewhere.

      October 20, 2011 at 8:22 am |
    • prometheus

      You count yourself one of brave hearts but in fact you are forgetting that these courage and freedom are from Christian morality.To testify your heroicness try to say such opinion about Islam and Mosques but in an Islamic country.Do you know what would happen well, it would be the last words in your life because you will quickly receive the reply from Muslims even before finish your sentence.

      October 20, 2011 at 2:36 pm |
    • fred

      Think For Yourself
      Theocracy worked back in the days long ago when God was with His people. At the time of Samuel the people demanded a King like the other nations. God said they have rejected me as in the past so give them a King but warn them of what a King will demand.
      Since that time there have been but a few good Kings. They ruled over their people with various forms of government. These rulers always end up separate from the people and abuse their power bringing down the best nations time after time. The people by the same token as their wealth rises become filled with themselves and the civilization collapses from within or by conquest. Whether you believe in God or not the church, religion or some base of unity between the people always exists. This counter balances the power of the rulers as both have the capacity to run amuck. Just as there is good and evil we see opposing forces all around. Theocracy cannot work if God is not with the people and or rulers. God knew this which is why he warned the people and set the system in motion we now have. God knew this which is one of the reasons the tower of Babel was destroyed. This is why a global world ruler cannot happen until the End of Days as God has shown us. We can learn a lot from the word of God we just prefer to go our own way. Interesting that has never worked for us yet we continue to do it anyway.

      October 20, 2011 at 2:37 pm |
  15. Reality

    If you are a believer in "God", some rational conclusions by a top theologian:

    As per the famous contemporary theologian, Father Edward Schillebeeckx, God is not omniscient. Please read, pause and contemplate the following:

    from his book, Church: The Human Story of God,
    Crossroad, 1993, p.91 (softcover)

    "Christians (et al) must give up a perverse, unhealthy and inhuman doctrine of predestination without in so doing making God the great scapegoat of history."

    "Nothing is determined in advance: in nature there is chance and determinism; in the world of human activity there is possibility of free choices.

    Therefore the historical future is not known even to God, otherwise we and our history would be merely a puppet show in which God holds the strings.

    For God, too, history is an adventure, an open history for and of men and women."

    If you are an agnostic like me or an atheist, the following prayer sums it up:

    The Apostles' Creed 2011: (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

    Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
    and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
    human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????

    I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
    preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
    named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
    girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

    Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
    the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

    He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
    a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
    Jerusalem.

    Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
    many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
    ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
    Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
    grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
    and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
    called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

    Amen
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    October 19, 2011 at 8:36 am |
  16. Kebos

    Religion is a form of mental illness. Of course a candidate will say a god chose them. They are delusional and want people to believe in their delusion as well. It's patently pathetic. If the US wants to continue to be a model for the world then it's people must ignore and deny the delusional candidates access to the Presidency.

    October 19, 2011 at 6:33 am |
  17. BAHAK

    I don't think that God gave them a sense to run..Tsk!Tsk!..What a hallucination.

    October 19, 2011 at 4:29 am |
  18. fernace

    Oden of Valhalla has called me to run for office! I believe I have a shot at it for 3 reasons: 1) I'm a Scandinave & my last name is Viking, 2) Tor (Thor for you Americans) is my brother! 3) I totally believe in Frej & Froja, the bro/sis fertility gods! There you have it, no campaign necessary, I'm a shoo in, Lol! Ps. I'll be the 1st female ruler Valhalla has ever non-voted for, this is a Historical event!!

    October 19, 2011 at 2:51 am |
  19. Muneef

    Old Sea Story;

    There's an old sea story about a ship's Captain who inspected
    his sailors, and afterward told the first mate that his men smelled bad..

    The Captain suggested perhaps it would help if the sailors
    would change underwear occasionally.

    The first mate responded, "Aye, aye sir, I'll see to it immediately!"

    The first mate went straight to the sailors berth deck and announced, "The Captain thinks you guys smell bad and wants you to change your underwear."

    He continued, "Pittman, you change with Jones, McCarthy, you change with Witkowski, and Brown, you change with
    Schultz."

    THE MORAL OF THE STORY:

    Someone may come along and promise "Change",
    but don't count on things smelling any better.
    -------–

    Why we can not achieve any change to our Worlds before we can achieve change within our own selves first...!

    Sahih International
    For each one are successive [angels] before and behind him who protect him by the decree of Allah . Indeed, Allah will not change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves. And when Allah intends for a people ill, there is no repelling it. And there is not for them besides Him any patron. (13:11).

    October 19, 2011 at 2:39 am |
    • Kebos

      Your posting was good until I got below the line. Allah is dead. And there is no such thing as angels.

      October 19, 2011 at 6:36 am |
    • Muneef

      Kebos.

      Funny,do you mean to say that you liked the part talking about under wears or the moral of the story? Well any way wanted to point out that changes start from our selves...!

      About GOD Allah is live and never dies...and angels are a nation as ours in different form that are his servants as many in our nations are... GOD house is in the Heart and soul of every believer... It is sad that your heart and soul has no place for spiritual love of universe and the creature of the universe who had not spared calling us sending us reminders and messengers of our own to bring us to the right path of worshiping nothing other than him as a GOD assigning no partners to him,loving and taking as an example the wisdoms and teachings of GOD Apostles and Bibles...! That is our way of life,it is our compass of direction, we accept that rather than living life with out compass in emptiness as a result of our state of denial...call it Ego or Arrogance or ignorance what ever it was it will pay for that heavily on earth and life after... As have told some one before that we should accept the smoke as a sign of fire rather than denying it and face the frying fire... So how can you deny the smoke...?

      October 19, 2011 at 7:07 pm |
    • Muneef

      Correction kindly amend reading the word "Creature" as "Creator"... Sorry.

      October 19, 2011 at 7:12 pm |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      Judaism is a myth. Greek mythology is also a myth. The religion of christianity is based on these two myths, and islam is based on the myth of christianity. There is only one summary. If god ever existed, it is not within the confines of these religions for certain. I can promise you one thing. If you were to spend a single day researching these religions, you will find plenty of evidence that proves without a shadow of a doubt that all are nothing more than myths. One day is all you need to erase a lifetime of brainwashing.

      October 19, 2011 at 9:12 pm |
    • Muneef

      BOBN.

      "GOD is One and Only" is the only true religion so leave out the Shells and uphold the Core of things otherwise you will be lost in millions of books saying all sort of things that will drive you far away from the real core that was brought to us by Abraham as to there is no GOD other than One GOD (Allah).. (Monotheisem)...

      October 21, 2011 at 12:58 pm |
  20. Joseph

    "they had a sense that God was leading them to run"... is nowhere near the same as vote for me or burn in hell. Perhaps God just wants them to learn some life lesson(s) out of the election process. Wanting them to run and wanting them to win is not necessary the same.

    October 19, 2011 at 1:57 am |
    • TruthPrevails

      No god required for any of this, nor should it be brought in to politics ever.

      October 19, 2011 at 4:05 am |
    • Quintessential

      TruthPrevails, You are simply asserting secularism here. Sorry, this isn't the U.S.S.A., we are not under dictatorship. We still have the freedom of speech. Eat your heart out, communist!

      October 20, 2011 at 1:05 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.