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Gadhafi used ‘renegade’ Islamic view for ‘purely political purposes’
Scholars say Gadhafi practiced his own brand of Islam, one that helped keep him in power.
October 21st, 2011
10:41 AM ET

Gadhafi used ‘renegade’ Islamic view for ‘purely political purposes’

By Dan Merica and Alex Zuckerman, CNN

Washington (CNN)– Moammar Gadhafi may have held onto power in Libya for more than 40 years, but the role Islam played in Gadhafi's personal life and leadership remains shrouded in mystery and debated by scholars. After his death, scholars are distancing Gadhafi from Islam and characterizing his religious views as “renegade” and “dictatorial” more than Islamic.

“It should also be made quite clear that Gadhafi was no more of a Muslim leader than Slobodan Milosevic or Robert Mugabe should be considered to be Christian leaders,” said Arsalan Iftikhar, an international human rights lawyer and author of "Islamic Pacifism: Global Muslims in the Post-Osama Era."

“My sense is Gadhafi’s religion was Gadhafisim,” said Kelly Pemberton, assistant professor of religion and women’s studies at George Washington University. “It was clear to many Libyans that his brand of Islam was purely political; it served his political purposes.”

Pemberton, who traveled to Libya with a group of scholars last year, said this was evident not only by the way he lived his life, but the way that he was viewed throughout the Muslim world.

“I think most people did see him as a renegade,” Pemberton said. “I would venture to say he had no friends in the Arab world, and he had no friends in the Muslim majority, and he had very few friends in Africa more generally.”

Though Gadhafi was a Sunni Muslim, he was more influenced by the idea of Arab united, said Harris Zafar, national spokesperson for the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community USA.

“When it comes to Gadhafi, even Sunni clerics have declared fatwas to kill him,” Zafar said. “He has always been this renegade, he hasn't really affiliated with a particular side. He almost made his own little brand.”

Zafar said Gadhafi was more influenced by events and people during his childhood than the Quran. In particular, Gadhafi admired the rise of former President Gamal Abdel Nasser in Egypt.

And according to a 1971 Time magazine interview, Nasser admired Gadhafi, too. “You know,” Nasser said during an interview, “I rather like Gaddafi. He reminds me of myself when I was that age."

Nasser, while criticized for his politics specifically toward a then growing Israeli population, is widely considered the most successful champion of Pan Arabism, the idea of unifying all countries of the Arab world, from Morocco on the Atlantic Ocean to Oman on the Arabian Sea. When he came to power as the second president of Egypt, Nasser moved to create the United Arab Republic, the predecessor to the Arab League.

Gadhafi idolized Nasser for these views. As a way to honor his hero, after taking control of Libya, Gadhafi converted the Catholic Cathedral of the Sacred Heart of Jesus to the Mosque of Gamal Abdel Nasser.

According to the same 1971 Time report, “[Gadhafi’s] dual preoccupations are the destruction of Israel and, through lavish outlays of his country's oil money, making himself Nasser's successor as the leader of Pan-Arabism.”

But Nasser pushed Pan Arabism as a secular movement, and in many instances he pushed programs of modernization and secularization. Gadhafi’s actions while leading Libya, however, shrouded how much he followed Nasser’s plan of secularization.

And when Pan Arabism seemed out of reach, Gadhafi changed his focus.

In 2009, the Libyan strongman was the chairperson of the African Union. During his tenure, he proposed a United States of Africa as a way to provide stability to the African country.

According to a number of scholars, Gadhafi made contradictory statements on Islam throughout his life. While at times he disavowed himself from Islam, especially Islamists, he also told a crowd in Niger that Islam was the world’s only universal religion. Under his rule, the Libyan government granted financial aid to Islamic communities around Africa, including building Islamic schools.

“You don't come to power without giving some sort of lip service to Islam and establishing your credentials as a believer,” said Pemberton from George Washington. “I think he did that openly when he came to power and certainly talked about the Quran and Sharia.”

But, said Pemberton, once he had come to power, it was evident that “Gadhafi’s Islam was not a true Islam. It was much more based on Pan Arabism ideals.”

Robin Wright, foreign policy analyst at the United States Institute of Peace and author of “Rock the Casbah: Rage and Rebellion Across the Islamic World,” echoed Pemberton’s claim.

“He, at the end of the day, was secular,” Wright said. “This is a country without sectarian violence. It had deep tribal difference but not sectarian differences, unlike Bahrain and Syria.”

And according to Wright, more than being secular, Gadhafi was anti-Islamist. This was evident in his actions against the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, a group listed as a Foreign Terrorist Organization that hoped to depose Gadhafi.

“Brutality helped him stay in power,” said Wright, speaking of Gadhafi’s regular crackdowns on the organization. “He feared the rising tide of Islam as a political force and as a potential force to mobilize against him.”

Libya is overwhelmingly Sunni, with some estimates as high as 97% of Libya practicing Sunni Islam. Though Sunni Islam is referred to as the orthodox view of Islam with the vast majority of practicing Muslims identifying as Sunni, Zafar said Gadhafi never fully embraced the orthodoxies of Sunni Islam.

“He did expose his religious ideologies to a certain extent, but it wasn't the same as other rulers,” Zafar said. “He was always speaking as a proponent of Islam. He really didn't give much to religious tolerance.”

In one of the more bizarre chapters in the Libyans leader's life, Gadhafi hired 200 Italian models in 2010 while visiting Rome and lectured them on the Quran. Additionally, he called people who did not follow Islam “losers” and said the Christian Bible was a forgery.

“When he had this ludicrous ideas of Sharia law, of everyone converting to Islam, particularly women, he definitely showed his intention or desire for Islam to rule, but he did not identify with a certain sect or thought process,” concluded Zafar.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Africa • Belief • Islam • Libya

soundoff (233 Responses)
  1. Gepaart Vision

    WHITES AREN’T WELCOME IN AMERICA ANY LONGER !!! OUT OF AMERICA WITH WHITES NOW !!!
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    ANTI WALL STREET PROTESTS = TRANSFER OF OWNERSHIP = COMMUNISM

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    THEY WERE MURDERING YOU WITH AND INSIDE OF THEIR CORPORATIONS FOR OVER 66 YEARS !!! THEY HAVE CLOSED DOWN ALMOST EVERY SMALL COMPANY(FARMS) IN UNITES STATES OF AMERICA AND NOW, THEY WANT YOU TO GO OUT THERE AND PROTEST FOR THEM AGAINST WALL STREET(because corporations = Wall-street) !!!

    THEY WERE CRIME CONTEMPLATING AGAINST US PER EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY COMMISSION FOR OVER 66 YEARS AND NOW, THEY WANT YOU TO RAISE COMMUNIST FLAG UNDER AMERICAN SKY !!! ONE RACE; RAT RACE(Wall street protesters are Obama's raise of the planet Apes army which spread from London per Zionist Washington DC and communist Moscow where new Stalin is in place – PUTIN) !!!

    IF YOU PROTEST(YOU SHOULD), MAKE SURE TO RAISE SIGN WHERE DISPLAYED I CITE "66 YEARS OF GENOCIDE AGAINST WHITES IS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE" OR GET LOST HOME IF NOT ALREADY HOMELESS(I despise people who starve to death out there and are afraid to say out loud what is truth...I despise people who only see themselves and do NOT care even about children of their own...children who will be turned one day in white refugees as seen on above video thanks to their parents who are awaiting...awaiting in fear to become homeless and what is inevitable at any given moment) !!!

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    WAKE UP YOUR FRIENDS AND SAVE YOURSELF FROM AGONY(did you know that over one hundred million of so called minorities lives already in United States very today and as a result, over 450 million whites worldwide were murdered with economic genocide/oppression since WWII just as seen and proven in above video !!?)...

    THERE IS ESTIMATED THAT ONGOING GENOCIDE TREND WILL CONTINUE TO GO ON FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER 50 YEARS IF NOT DESTROYED(is completed only 30% so far) AND IS ONLY MATTER OF TIME WHEN YOU ARE NEXT IN LINE FOR THE SAKE OF MULTICULTURALISM(TERRORISM)...

    911 WAS CREATED FOR PEOPLE TO WAKE UP(deliberately by CIA)....HOWEVER, WAKE UP EITHER WHAT IS TRUTH(sanity) OR WAKE UP TO LIES(insanity = with what your self elected governments have brainwashed you when forcefully jobless/persecuted....therefor­­e, I want you to think about "WAKE UP" when watching next time ALEX JONES = CIA)

    WHEN YOU WAKE UP, I WANT YOU TO WAKE TO YOURSELF AND NOT TO SOMEONE ELSE'S DREAM (ZIONIST/COMMUNIST/LIBERAL DREAM CATCHERS/THIEFS, WHO PLOTTED 911 TO WAKE YOU AFTERWARDS WITH ECONOMIC OPPRESSION IN A WORLD OF LIES !!!)

    HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT TRUTH IS !!? WHATEVER YOU WERE BORN IS WHAT YOU ARE(truth therefore) AND FOR WHATEVER REASONS YOU HAVE CHANGED(distorted yourself) SINCE 9/11 IS WHAT YOU ARE NOT !!!

    IS IT INDEPENDENCE THAT WE CELEBRATE OR DEPENDENCE (what are your credit card bills or alimony saying about it) !!? HOW IS YOUR DIABETES AND LOST MARRIAGES !!? FORECLOSURES AND JOB SEARCH !!? THAT IS THE QUESTION TO BE OR NOT TO BE !!! IS IT LAND OF THE FREE OR STATE OF TERROR AGAINST OWN WHITE POPULATION !!? IT IS TIME TO LET THEM KNOW WHAT COLOR ARE THE STRIPES ON OUR STAR SPANGLED BANNER !!! TIME TO DETERMINE WHOSE INDEPENDENCE/AMERICA, WE CELEBRATE TODAY(who wants to erase us and denies us the right to exist) !!! IT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHOM WE ADDRESS WITH "PRESIDENT" (STOP HUMILIATING YOURSELF) !!!

    YES , WE CAN..YES , WE CAN..WE WILL WIN IN WAR ON TERROR (30 whities or what are terrorists will never come back alive due to Afghanistan helicopter crash...thank you lord..aamen).

    Whitie is fighting war on terrorism just to come home and be pronounced as terrorist...turned in Timothy, jobless, homeless ..YESSS, WE CAN....FISH CAN & TENT CITY USA CAN...GABBY OPENED HER EYES CAN(psycho Tucson)

    OS(B)AMA IS MOVING OUT OF AFGHAN FEW DAYS AFTER MY POSTING ONLINE(out of Iraq few months before elections) AND IS WILLING TO IMPROVE ECONOMY(genocide against whites) FEW MONTHS AHEAD OF ELECTIONS(what is the difference between temporary and permanent jobs in USA!!?) !!

    ALL THESE JUST SO YOU CAN CLICK AGAIN ON ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES WHICH CAN BE ALL CONTROLLED(AND ARE CONTROLLED OR COMPUTER OPERATED) FROM A SINGLE CELLULAR PHONE(for entire USA)...JUST SO YOU CAN CHOSE AGAIN BETWEEN WHATEVER WAS ALREADY CHOSEN FOR YOU TO CHOOSE FROM BY ZIONIST/JEWISH LOBBY IN WASHINGTON DC.

    Don't worry O(s)bama, you have just saved lots of Dollars in your DEBT DEALS(DEAD & ILL) as those America best (Navy Seals) would also grew older and then you already know how it goes !!!

    WAKE-UP !!! WAKE UP PEOPLE BEFORE IT GETS ALL TO LATE ON PLANET APE !!! TEARS WON'T DO YOU ANY GOOD !!! AS BUSH STATED "THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE PAID FOR"(to die ) !! STOP THE GOVERNMENT TERRORISM AND TERROR AGAINST WHITES WORLDWIDE IN THE NAME OF MULTYCULTURALISM OR NWO !!

    EVEN IF IRAQ WOULD BE WAR FOR OIL, VETERANS WOULDN'T NEVER EVER HAVE TO BE HOMELESS PEOPLE THE WAY THEY ARE AND NOR WOULD OUR PEOPLE DIE ALLOVER THE PLACE THEY DO AND TO VERY TODAY(never ending war story)...BECAUSE EVEN IF WAR WAS FOR THE SAKE OF MONEY, MONEY SHOULD BE USED FOR AMERICAN CITIZENS AND NOT WHAT THE CASE IS OR AGAINST WHITES(66 YEARS AFTER WWII, THEY HAVE EATEN YOU IN AND OUT LIKE IN GERMANY PRIOR TO WWII...all your sacrifice during WWII was for nothing and the worse is yet to come in America)...

    October 22, 2011 at 4:59 pm |
  2. AGuest9

    Yet another Middle Eastern ruler practicing his own version of Islam to remain in power. As if the original version wasn't evil enough.

    October 22, 2011 at 11:01 am |
  3. Muneef

    The cowardly assassination of a armedless hostage is a unjust war crime to shut up the truth from being availed, that only shows that there was a conspiracy and a green light to finish him up in order not to reach the concerned court of justice since many bribed rulers were going to be exposed by him to the world... Those who felt happy most for his assassination are the most entangled since he as well supported many in their elections campaigns...

    October 22, 2011 at 1:35 am |
  4. HotAirAce

    So I see HeavenScent is out on a weekend pass and off her medication. "Run & Hide Herbie" can't be far behind.

    October 21, 2011 at 11:45 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      I see HotAir, your perception is I have to be nuts because I know you to be spiritually dead due to ignorance of His truth. I pity the person involved emotionally in your life. They'd be banging their head against the wall due to you NOT being in touch with your spiritual self. I hope you found/find a robot that just walks and talks as you.

      Amen.

      October 22, 2011 at 2:24 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I would venture a guess that HotAirAce says you must be nuts because the evidence that you are is present in your every post.

      October 22, 2011 at 10:18 am |
    • HeavenSent

      The we're even. You think I'm nuts and I think you are both demented and perverted.

      October 23, 2011 at 1:44 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      The difference is that you ARE nuts. It's not an opinion.

      October 23, 2011 at 11:03 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Oh, Tommie, Tom isn't it time for your next temper tantrum?

      Amen.

      October 23, 2011 at 11:23 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You're the broken clock, dummy.

      October 24, 2011 at 9:13 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tommie, Tom, are you about 15 years old or am I giving you credit?

      Amen.

      October 24, 2011 at 11:11 pm |
  5. THE BIBLE IS GARBAGE

    I HOPE KENNETH COPELAND GOES TO IRAN

    October 21, 2011 at 11:26 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      TBIG, Copeland is on your team of non-believers. He's a phony preacher.

      Amen.

      October 21, 2011 at 11:42 pm |
    • jwas1914

      Just out of curiosity, if you feel the Bible is garbage why are you on this religious site?

      October 23, 2011 at 11:19 am |
  6. Pravda

    Let the persecution of non-Mulsims begin! This is exactly what is happening in Egypt right now. Christian churches and homes are being burnt to the ground. Christians in Iraq have also been targeted. Looks like these mid-east countries need a dictator to keep them from showing the "love of allah".

    October 21, 2011 at 10:40 pm |
  7. HeavenSent

    Heaven sent us tsunamis, hurricanes, and famines, plus cancers, typhoid, meningitis, and other diseases that have caused horrible pain and suffering.

    Wow, god must be quite the azzhole. Thank you god.

    October 21, 2011 at 9:56 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Phony heavensent. Please get a life.

      P.S. I'm glad that Jesus' Truth irks you. Now do something to save your soul.

      Amen.

      October 21, 2011 at 11:23 pm |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      That isn't very christian of you.

      October 21, 2011 at 11:54 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Bearer Of Bad News, it certainly is a true Christian's perception. I'm not a phony Christian that listens to a man preach man made logic against God's truth. It's the phony preachers in this world that you got your concept of what Jesus is. Read the Bible yourself to learn what "Salty" means.

      Amen.

      October 22, 2011 at 2:28 am |
    • AGuest9

      So, how exactly, does one save an imaginary "organ" from an imaginary being?

      October 22, 2011 at 10:53 am |
    • HeavenSent

      AGuest9, all you robots walking/talking away from the tool shed.

      Amen.

      October 23, 2011 at 1:47 am |
  8. Muneef

    The Story of Qarun (Korah)

    {Verily, Qarun (Korah) was of Musa's (Moses) people, but he behaved arrogantly towards them. 
    And We gave him of the treasures, that of which the keys would have been a burden to a body of strong men. 
    Remember when his people said to him: 
    "Do not exult (with riches, being ungrateful to Allah). 
    Verily Allah likes not those who exult (with riches, being ungrateful to Allah). 
    "But seek with that (wealth) which Allah has bestowed on you, the home of the Hereafter, 
    and forget not your portion of lawful enjoyment in this world,' and do good as Allah has been good to you, 
    and seek not mischief in the land. 
    Verily, Allah likes not the Mufsidun (those who commit great crimes and sins, oppressors, tyrants, mischief-makers, corrupters)." 

    He(Qarun) said: 

    "This has been given to me only because of the knowledge I possess."

    Did he not know that Allah had destroyed before him generations, men who were stronger than him in might 
    and greater in the amount (of riches) they had collected? 
    But the Mujrimun (criminals, disbelievers, polytheists, sinners) will not be questioned of their sins 
    (because Allah knows them well, so they will be punished without being called to account). 
    So he went forth before his people in his pomp. 

    Those who were desirous of the life of the world, said: 

    "Ah, would that we had the like of what Qarun (Korah) has been given! Verily he is the owner of a great fortune." 

    But those who had been given (religious) knowledge said: 

    "Woe to you! The Reward of Allah (in the Hereafter) is better for those who believe and do righteous good deeds, 
    and this none shall attain except those who are As*Sabirun (the patient in following the truth). 

    "So We caused the earth to swallow him and his dwelling place. 
    Then he had no group or party to help him against Allah, nor was he one of those who could save themselves.

    And those who had desired (for a position like) his position the day before, began to say: 
    "Know you not that it is Allah Who enlarges the provision or restricts it to whomsoever He pleases of His slaves. 
    Had it not been that Allah was Gracious to us, He could have caused the earth to swallow us up (also)! 
    Know you not that the disbelievers will never be successful.
    " That home of the Hereafter (i.e. Paradise), We shall assign to those who rebel not against the truth with pride and 
    oppression in the land nor do mischief by committing crimes. And the good end is for the Muttaqun (the pious and righteous persons)}. (Al-*Qasas, 76-83) 

    October 21, 2011 at 7:04 pm |
    • Pravda

      The quran is one of the most vile writings ever published. Read it yourself people, and try not to vomit. Radical Mooslims are those who follow the quran word for word. Where do they get the hatred of the West, Israel, and crazy ideals like Jihad? Their "holy" book. Crazy...

      October 21, 2011 at 10:44 pm |
    • Muneef

      Vile Skunk go and wash your filthy mouth first before talking like that about a Holy Book of GOD, and who are you to judge it's contents..!?

      October 22, 2011 at 1:46 am |
  9. HeavenSent

    Heaven sent us tsunamis, hurricanes, and famines, plus cancers, typhoid, meningitis, lupus and other diseases that have caused horrible pain and suffering.

    Wow, god must be quite the azzhole. Thank you god.

    October 21, 2011 at 6:38 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      So phony heavensent, again, I irk you while writing under one of your numerous handles and you steal my handle to post your nonsense. You're so transparent a child figures you out.

      Amen.

      October 21, 2011 at 8:42 pm |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      The phony is more interesting.

      October 21, 2011 at 9:54 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Bearer Of Bad News, you just gave up that this new handle of yours is another diversion.

      October 21, 2011 at 11:24 pm |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      What new handle is that? What diversion? And why would I need a diversion? I can't wait to read your response. This should be a good one.

      October 21, 2011 at 11:56 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      You aided to their defense too quickly. In need of that instant gratification?!.

      Forget it. This too, must be going over your head.

      Amen.

      October 22, 2011 at 2:31 am |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      I'd have to know what you're talking about to remember what you're telling me to forget in the first place. Who did I come to the defense of in such a speedy manner that you would assume I'm using different screen names? Let me guess, you don't think the average human is capable of hunting and pecking more than 10 WPM? Sorry if I type fast and my response to another comment that wasn't yours came at a time when I was most needed to reply to your mind-numbing posts of emptiness.

      You've yet to prove god exists.

      October 22, 2011 at 4:29 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Bearer Of Bad News, you wrote "I'd have to know what you're talking about to remember what you're telling me to forget in the first place. Who did I come to the defense of in such a speedy manner that you would assume I'm using different screen names? Let me guess, you don't think the average human is capable of hunting and pecking more than 10 WPM? Sorry if I type fast and my response to another comment that wasn't yours came at a time when I was most needed to reply to your mind-numbing posts of emptiness.

      You've yet to prove god exists."

      Answer: You non-believers only whine and have temper tantrums stating your non-beliefs. You have yet to prove that Jesus' doesn't exists as your scientist still can't answer HOW DID IT ALL BEGIN?

      You're on the wrong side non-believers as you walk in darkness. Come into the light and live righteously instead of staying perpetual brats.

      Amen.

      October 24, 2011 at 1:03 pm |
    • Less Paul

      HeavenSent, when you persistently call people who disagree with you names like "brats", I thnk there is a rather darkish pot sitting with your name on it, right at home beside the kettle.

      October 24, 2011 at 1:09 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Less Paul, (nice guitar) I welcome debates. However, salvation of one’s soul is of great concern. I already comprehend that non-believers refuse to heed his warning (free will). I purposely chose the terminology since that is the bottom line of how they act on these posts when they grab for a thousand reason’s to refuse His teachings.

      Amen.

      October 24, 2011 at 2:20 pm |
    • HellBent

      "However, salvation of one’s soul is of great concern."

      Clearly, given that the only debate tactic you seem to possess is ad hominem attacks, you're leaving the salvation of those souls up to others. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

      October 24, 2011 at 2:23 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      HellBent, it is written that anyone who is against Jesus' truth is anti-social towards Jesus and society as a whole. Refusing to live in harmony with all others. All the non-believers can spin their circular arguments with Christians as you want, His truth is truth.

      Amen.

      October 24, 2011 at 11:21 pm |
    • Come On Now

      Heaven Sent - The Jesus superhero who is told about in the NT is not even as smart as a fifth-grader. He couldn't even write... he supposedly depended on a few 1st century evangelists to retell his "words" many, many decades after the fact.

      October 24, 2011 at 11:34 pm |
  10. JihadPart2

    I really don't know why the media is so hyped over this. Things will only get worse for Libya, or should I say the West? The dictators in these mid-east countries held the Muslim Radicals at bay. Now they are gone, these nations will become Jihad hotbeds. Just look at Egypt, persecution of non-Muslims is already in full bloom there.

    October 21, 2011 at 4:59 pm |
  11. HeavenSent

    Moammar Gadhafi, another one blinded by the sins of pride, greed, and of course lust of the flesh (being power).

    Amen.

    October 21, 2011 at 3:56 pm |
    • Nonimus

      @HeavenSent,
      Is it not pride to think you know more or have a better understanding than your fellow man?
      Is it not greed that causes you to want to go to heaven and not hell?
      Is it not lust and lust for power that causes you to proclaim your version of piety to all the lowly masses here?

      Deal with your own demons, you who claims to be 'Sent from Heaven' or 'Sent to Heaven'.

      October 21, 2011 at 4:59 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Nonimus, being the mizzy and irked that some of us know Jesus' truth and spread it to others? Too bad. You own your miserable self. Just because you folks blinded by sin assume everyone is convinced of your lies that are spread all through the media, school systems, churches, work etc. doesn't mean we all buy into your baloney. Jesus truth stands for eternity. Man's nonsense falls soon.

      Amen.

      October 21, 2011 at 5:45 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      heavensent. tell us what the truth of jesus is then ......and the proof of the truth....

      October 21, 2011 at 6:11 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Evolvednot, you folks still can't prove Jesus doesn't exist. I'm not playing with you wanna be lawyers that love to put reasonable doubt spin into everything. Besides, that's satan's job and he did a fine job on you doubters.

      Romans 1

      1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

      1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

      1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

      1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

      1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

      1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

      1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

      1:8 First *, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

      1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

      1:10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.

      1:11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;

      1:12 That * is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.

      1:13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, * (but was let hitherto *,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as * among other Gentiles.

      1:14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.

      1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

      1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

      1:17 For therein * is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written *, The just shall live by faith.

      1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

      1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

      1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

      1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

      1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

      1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

      1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

      1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

      1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

      1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another *; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

      1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

      1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

      1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

      1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

      1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

      Amen.

      October 21, 2011 at 6:23 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Heaven sent us tsunamis, hurricanes, and famines, plus cancers, typhoid, meningitis, lupus and other diseases that have caused horrible pain and suffering.

      Wow, god must be quite the ass-hole. Thank you god.

      October 21, 2011 at 6:39 pm |
    • Duh

      "you own your miserable self."

      Lying is a sin.

      October 21, 2011 at 6:46 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Your feathers get ruffled easily phony heavensent. Why else would you be stealing my handle to post nonsense after I post His truth? If you can't stand His truth while in the flesh, imagine what blotting out would be????

      Amen.

      October 21, 2011 at 8:47 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      heavensent..no answers then, no proof.. just bluster. You have no truth do you ,there is no Jesus truth,,its just a saying you use. Scripture has no more power than a Harry Potter chapter. You have to prove jesus exists , you say he does but what evidence have you..we are just asking you to give us any evidence and you cannot..so we say that he is bogus..prove me wrong then.

      October 21, 2011 at 8:50 pm |
    • Sue

      EvolvedDNA, re "Scripture has no more power than a Harry Potter chapter", indeed, scripture has less power, actually. These days Harry Potter is more popular than Jesus, and is a way better wizard too. Jesus is as dead as Gadhafi.

      And the whole Harry Potter series is just way more entertaining fiction than the bible too, despite it being the case that the Harry Potter series had only one author and the bible had many.

      October 21, 2011 at 8:57 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      EvolvedDNA, it's not my problem that you refuse to believe Jesus. It's that ego thing again that you hold on to.

      Sue, I do remember Lennon saying the same thing and look what happened to Him. I'd turn back if I were you ... taken from the Wiz of Oz.

      Amen.

      October 21, 2011 at 9:26 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      EvolvedDNA, you wrote "heavensent..no answers then, no proof.. just bluster. You have no truth do you ,there is no Jesus truth,,its just a saying you use. Scripture has no more power than a Harry Potter chapter. You have to prove jesus exists , you say he does but what evidence have you..we are just asking you to give us any evidence and you cannot..so we say that he is bogus..prove me wrong then."

      Answer: You're so busy smashing His truth with the man made intellect your prize so highly you haven't figured out how to read the Bible with understanding. I told you before, the Bible (Jesus' truth about life and the hereafter) is the most fascinating book ever written. If you shelf your ego, you too can comprehend what He's telling everyone.

      Amen.

      October 21, 2011 at 9:32 pm |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      So, the bible requires understanding, or to put it lightly, interpretation, to figure it out. Let me guess, the gate of heaven is a giant maze. Take a wrong turn and you fall into hell. That god of yours sure is a jokester. Now if he could only get a single book right. That would be a miracle.

      October 21, 2011 at 9:57 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Heaven sent us tsunamis, hurricanes, and famines, plus cancers, typhoid, lupus and other diseases that have caused horrible pain and suffering.

      Wow, god must be quite the azzhole. Thank you god.

      October 21, 2011 at 9:57 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      Heavensent..how can I "smash' Jesus's truth if you yourself are unable to tell us what it is? what have I said that has smashed it? I have simply asked you to tell us what it is...I think it just a saying that sounds good in a group, but has no substance. If you have read the bible, with out your ego button turned on, which you claim to have done then you must have understood the secret code..what is it.. you can whisper if you like....

      October 21, 2011 at 11:23 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      EvolvedDNA, twice I sent you my response and twice it was rejected by your cronies.

      Tired of the games on this site that allows you folks to post your nonsense but Jesus' truth is blocked.

      Besides, you non-believer only want to hear what's convenient for you, not His truth that helps you grow righteously.

      Amen.

      October 22, 2011 at 2:38 am |
    • Again

      HeavenSent: Paranoia, forgetfulness and stupidity are poor excuses...

      Bad letter combinations / words to avoid if you want to get past the CNN automatic filter:
      Many, if not most, are buried within other words, so use your imagination.
      You can use dashes, spaces, or other characters to modify the "offending" letter combinations.
      ---
      ar-se.....as in ar-senic.
      co-ck.....as in co-ckatiel, co-ckatrice, co-ckleshell, co-ckles, etc.
      co-on.....as in rac-oon, coc-oon, etc.
      cu-m......as in doc-ument, accu-mulate, circu-mnavigate, circu-mstances, cu-mbersome, cuc-umber, etc.
      cu-nt.....as in Scu-ntthorpe, a city in the UK famous for having problems with filters...!
      ef-fing...as in ef-fing filter
      ft-w......as in soft-ware, delft-ware, swift-water, etc.
      ho-mo.....as in ho-mo sapiens or ho-mose-xual, ho-mogenous, etc.
      ho-rny....as in tho-rny, etc.
      jacka-ss...yet "ass" is allowed by itself.....
      ja-p......as in j-apanese, ja-pan, j-ape, etc.
      koo-ch....as in koo-chie koo..!
      nip-ple
      or-gy….as in por-gy, zo-rgy, etc.
      pi-s......as in pi-stol, lapi-s, pi-ssed, therapi-st, etc.
      p-orn… as in p-ornography
      pr-ick....as in pri-ckling, pri-ckles, etc.
      que-er
      ra-pe.....as in scra-pe, tra-peze, gr-ape, thera-peutic, sara-pe, etc.
      se-x......as in Ess-ex, s-exual, etc.
      sh-@t.....but shat is okay – don't use the @ symbol there.
      sl-ut
      sn-atch
      sp-ic.....as in disp-icable, hosp-ice, consp-icuous, susp-icious, sp-icule, sp-ice, etc.
      strip-per
      ti-t......as in const-itution, att-itude, ent-ities, alt-itude, beat-itude, etc.
      tw-at.....as in wristw-atch, nightw-atchman, etc.
      va-g......as in extrava-gant, va-gina, va-grant, va-gue, sava-ge, etc.
      who-re....as in who're you kidding / don't forget to put in that apostrophe!
      wt-f....also!!!!!!!

      There are more, some of them considered "racist", so do not assume that this list is complete.

      October 22, 2011 at 2:45 am |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      Heaven, I've read about jesus in the bible, to include the quotes of his lies. It's right there in the bible, not from another source, not an opinion. These are quotes from the mouth of jesus. It seems you're doing the blocking and dodging here. It never ends.

      October 22, 2011 at 4:32 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Question for you, HS: you keep using "mizzy" as if it were a word. What is it you think you're saying with it?

      October 22, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      Heavensent...you have been posting here long enough to know exactly why posts are rejected , it has nothing to do with any other poster on here, only you. I would have thought that prayer would have helped? anyway still no explanation of jesus truth, or how I "smashed' it because it is nothing more than a slogan. If asking for the very thing that you want people to know is somehow impossible to answer then it must be an impossible truth.

      October 23, 2011 at 1:51 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son, mizzy is short for miserable. Quicker to spell. Also, SD means surface dwellers .... only skimming the surface of life ... too insecure or arrogant to search intricately on any meanings of life. That's why you non-believers are offended by the Bible. You'll learn something about yourselves that you want to keep hidden.

      Amen.

      October 23, 2011 at 11:31 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      EvolvedDNA and Again, there is nothing in that post that would flag a computerized rejection. Therefore, only human eyes rejected that message.

      Amen.

      October 23, 2011 at 11:34 pm |
    • Paranoia Puncture

      Heaven Sent:

      How many times have I found, and have pointed out to you, the particular tricky words from your referenced bible quotes which triggered the automatic word filter?

      Why did your post at October 21, 2011 at 6:23 pm show up just fine?

      Why do you persist in being a dope?

      October 24, 2011 at 2:54 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      She has no choice. Once a dope, always a dope. The leopard can't change its spots, and HS can't changer hers. Notice how she is always accusing others of having temper tantrums, big egos, and using "phony handles"?

      Why do you suppose she does that? It's because such behaviors are the norm in her world. She doesn't have much else, as she's "recooping" from her lobotomy. That's why she isn't out doing things for those less fortunate who need comfort and care.

      HS talks a lot. That's pretty much all she ever does.

      October 24, 2011 at 9:32 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hilarious. "You non-believers will learn something you'd rather keep hidden."

      What did YOU learn about YOURSELF, you old bat? Go ahead and tell everyone. After all, you don't want to keep anything "hidden", do you?

      October 24, 2011 at 9:34 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      HS babbles: "mizzy is short for miserable". Says who? There's no such word, you jackazz. If you're too lazy to type the word then at least don't lie about it. You are such a freak, HS.

      No wonder you're all alone.

      October 24, 2011 at 10:00 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tommie, Tom, now you're back to age 12. Maybe 10.

      Just shaking my head.

      Amen.

      October 24, 2011 at 11:25 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      HS blathers: "In psychology, we call you sociopaths."

      What a hoot. You never studied psychology. You called psychiatrists fakes and followers of their own man-made religion, or some such malarkey. Do you ever get tired of being ridiculous?

      October 25, 2011 at 11:01 am |
    • Seriously?

      "too insecure or arrogant to search intricately on any meanings of life. That's why you non-believers are offended by the Bible."

      The intricacies that you are referring to is your interpretations of what you think is your truths in the bible, you can't be offended by a work of fiction. Are you offended by the truths found in the Harry Potter books? You would think a god as powerful as you are trying to make it out to be would have gotten it right and not put in all those intricacies that has tore your religion apart into 1000 of denominations and interpretations. LOL!

      October 25, 2011 at 11:17 am |
  12. redragon

    my favorite part ... was the clerics declaring fatwas...religion is so peaceful isn't it.

    October 21, 2011 at 3:45 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Stop mixing man made religions with Jesus Christ's truth about life and the hereafter. Man (meaning women too) in the flesh is sin. Sin that everyone needs to repent to Jesus, ask for His forgiveness, and sin no more.

      Jesus made His message simple. Man twists His truth to make their baloney preached instead of Jesus' truth ... and folks wonder what's wrong with the world today???

      Amen.

      October 21, 2011 at 4:00 pm |
    • William Demuth

      HeavenSent

      Even in your religious intoxication you MUST realize that if we don't start controling religious zealots and keeping them OUT of government, we will all die?

      God and Guns, God and Government, they ALL end up the same way.

      October 21, 2011 at 4:04 pm |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      Stop mixing the jesus myth (christianity) with fact. It is after all, just another man-made religion.

      October 21, 2011 at 5:36 pm |
    • Answer

      @HeavenSent
      "Man twists His truth to make their baloney preached instead of Jesus' truth ... and folks wonder what's wrong with the world today???"

      Do you even see the words you type before you put them down? What a laugh! As if your version is not twisted.

      October 21, 2011 at 5:47 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      William Demuth, I'm still wondering how you put fingers to the keyboard.

      One of the fools of this world looks back at you when you see your reflection in the mirror William. I never had a practicing Christian destroy my life as I knew it. That was done by big egoed non-believers. Therefore, you are preaching to the wrong person when you try to get me to buy into your nonsense.

      Amen.

      October 21, 2011 at 5:50 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Answer, same response to you as I wrote William.

      You non-believers are the destruction of this world. Not believers.

      Amen.

      October 21, 2011 at 5:52 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      Heavensent.. you blindly believe that gods law is above that of man.. parents have been told by god to kill their kids as they are "satan".. are these parents crazy or rational and how do you determine that? why would god not tell someone to do that?
      If you want the mentally ill to run your life that is fine,but please do not expect us to be happy to allow it to happen to us.

      October 21, 2011 at 6:21 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Your major flaw to all your thinking EvolvedDNA is your ego is out of whack. You view these scriptures as pertaining to yourself instead of who they were intended for .... e.g. Imagine if Teddy Bundy, John Wayne Gacey, Green River Killer's moms and dads paid attention to said scriptures. All their victims would be alive, enjoying their grandchildren by now.

      Amen.

      October 21, 2011 at 6:32 pm |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      HeavenSent, you are very wrong. David Koresh LOVED the scriptures. He was sleeping with little girls for christ's sake. So do all of the catholic priests performing unimaginable acts on young boys. How about the crusades and all of the witch burnings? All fueled by religion. Do you have any idea how many people were tortured and murdered in England over christianity?

      October 21, 2011 at 6:44 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Bearer Of Bad News, what part of shelving ones ego (staying in a humble mindset) do you not understand? Jesus told us the meek (what is meant by humble) shall inherit the earth (3rd earth age when death is blotted out ... no eternity for evil (which is death). Do not have other gods (your own mind ... aka ego) before Him.

      I can go on and on about ego, not being humble (meek), but, I leave you with these examples.

      Amen.

      October 21, 2011 at 8:52 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Bearer Of Bad News, you wrote "HeavenSent, you are very wrong. David Koresh LOVED the scriptures. He was sleeping with little girls for christ's sake. So do all of the catholic priests performing unimaginable acts on young boys. How about the crusades and all of the witch burnings? All fueled by religion. Do you have any idea how many people were tortured and murdered in England over christianity?"

      Same answer above: Not living in a humble mindset ... allowing ego (which means to Erase God Out) to flourish.

      Bad news, there are big egos in all walks of life, not just so called religious folks. Human's did this. Amen, or in your case PERIOD.

      October 21, 2011 at 8:58 pm |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      Thanks for the same empty answer, twice. This has nothing to do with being humble. This has everything to do with people using scripture to do what they wanted. They used it as a weapon. Is your god humble? Last time I checked, the bible was full of stories of god killing lots of people and torturing babies. VERY humble of your god indeed. Thank you kindly for your insight.

      October 21, 2011 at 9:27 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Bearer Of Bad News, you wrote "Thanks for the same empty answer, twice. This has nothing to do with being humble. This has everything to do with people using scripture to do what they wanted. They used it as a weapon. Is your god humble? Last time I checked, the bible was full of stories of god killing lots of people and torturing babies. VERY humble of your god indeed. Thank you kindly for your insight."

      Answer: I'm not giving you an empty answer. I'm telling you about ego which prevents a person from doing what is righteous for all involved.

      Amen.

      October 21, 2011 at 9:36 pm |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      Oh, right. Ego. Like when jesus claimed divinity in the bible. A man, here on earth telling people he and "the father" are one. That isn't egotistical or anything. A man telling people he would die and then come back before those people died to lead a giant war in which he'd slaughter everyone. Nah, no ego there either. That there jesus, he was so humble.

      October 21, 2011 at 9:59 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Bearer Of Bad News, you wrote "Oh, right. Ego. Like when jesus claimed divinity in the bible. A man, here on earth telling people he and "the father" are one. That isn't egotistical or anything. A man telling people he would die and then come back before those people died to lead a giant war in which he'd slaughter everyone. Nah, no ego there either. That there jesus, he was so humble."

      Answer: You complain about He that created ALL! I suppose I'm to feel sorry for you that you are not the creator? Actually Bearer, the only thing we need to do is to learn how to save our souls. So far, you non-believers aren't doing so good.

      Amen.

      October 21, 2011 at 11:30 pm |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      I'm not complaining about "the creator." That would be the same as crying because Santa didn't bring me anything for Christmas. Santa doesn't exist, therefore there is no need to complain about not receiving gifts from an imaginary being. I've mentioned in other posts that belief is hard-wired. This is why people of other faiths have "spiritual" experiences.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211511/Why-born-believe-God-Its-wired-brain-says-psychologist.html

      I don't believe in what you call a "soul." I believe we are conscious beings. That is, humans have evolved and formed the ability use advanced tools and more complex forms of communication than other animals. In reality, we are animals. When you boil all of it down, we along with other animals exist to survive and continue the species. Nothing more, nothing less.

      October 22, 2011 at 12:00 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Bearer Of Bad News, you wrote "I'm not complaining about "the creator." That would be the same as crying because Santa didn't bring me anything for Christmas. Santa doesn't exist, therefore there is no need to complain about not receiving gifts from an imaginary being. I've mentioned in other posts that belief is hard-wired. This is why people of other faiths have "spiritual" experiences."

      Answer: how would you experience Christmas if Jesus didn't exist? You non-believers complain about everything that Jesus created. You non-believers would really be quit comical if your condition of being spiritually dead wasn't so sad and gets you blotted out for eternity.

      "I'm not complaining about "the creator." That would be the same as crying because Santa didn't bring me anything for Christmas. Santa doesn't exist, therefore there is no need to complain about not receiving gifts from an imaginary being. I've mentioned in other posts that belief is hard-wired. This is why people of other faiths have "spiritual" experiences."

      Answer: I told you, people of other faiths have 95% of Jesus Christ's truth with 5% of satan's lies. Of course they can feel something, but not all.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211511/Why-born-believe-God-Its-wired-brain-says-psychologist.html

      Answer: Shrinks, as are phony preachers believe themselves to be min-god's. Of course they ignore him and only learn and teach partial truths.

      I don't believe in what you call a "soul." I believe we are conscious beings. That is, humans have evolved and formed the ability use advanced tools and more complex forms of communication than other animals. In reality, we are animals. When you boil all of it down, we along with other animals exist to survive and continue the species. Nothing more, nothing less.

      Answer: That's a shame that you know so little about His truth and believe in nonsense.

      Amen.

      October 22, 2011 at 2:48 am |
    • Guess What

      Heaven Sent...

      Most of the customs and traditions of Christmas actually pre-date the birth of Jesus, and many of them are downright deceptive in their meaning and origin. Here are a few examples:

      The date of December 25th probably originated with the ancient "birthday" of the son-god, Mithra, a pagan deity whose religious influence became widespread in the Roman Empire during the first few centuries A.D. Mithra was related to the Semitic sun-god, Shamash, and his worship spread throughout Asia to Europe where he was called Deus Sol Invictus Mithras. Rome was well-known for absorbing the pagan religions and rituals of its widespread empire. As such, Rome converted this pagan legacy to a celebration of the god, Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god during the winter solstice period. The winter holiday became known as Saturnalia and began the week prior to December 25th. The festival was characterized by gift-giving, feasting, and singing.

      It didn't become known as "Christmas" until the 4th Century.

      and

      Today would not be called Saturday if it weren't for the ancient god, Saturn. Enjoy your day.

      October 22, 2011 at 3:18 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      HS, you should be thankful to your "creator" for giving you the biggest ego possible. Your pompous pronouncements about what is "truth" are just your beliefs, nothing more. You're on here daily, trumpeting your version of god and the bible, and castigating anyone who doesn't do as you believe is the "right" thing.

      And then you have the gall to sign every post with your arrogant little one-finger salute of "Amen", as if you were the delivery boy of god's own word.

      What a crock.

      October 22, 2011 at 9:57 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why don't you tell us how "big-egoed non-believers" ruined your life, HS? Go ahead. I would love to hear what happened in your workplace that got you fired. Don't even try to pretend that you just "retired". You were forced out, probably for the same behavior you display here.

      October 22, 2011 at 10:01 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "So far you nonbelievers aren't doing so good." How do you know? Got a window into heaven and hell? How do you know what your god decides to do with others, and where do you get the gall to pronounce your judgment as to how anyone else is doing? What humility are YOU practicing, HS?

      October 22, 2011 at 10:04 am |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      I'm curious to know where HeavenSent got the rock-solid statistics of 95% and 5% from. I'm sure it's next post we be filled with more cranium-exploding awesome "facts."

      October 22, 2011 at 4:36 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      The same place they get all their "statistics" and "facts": pulledoutoftheirazzes dot com.

      October 22, 2011 at 6:53 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tommie Tom, get a grip on your anger and hatred. I know you can if you try.

      Amen.

      October 23, 2011 at 11:53 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Guess What, you wrote "Heaven Sent...Most of the customs and traditions of Christmas actually pre-date the birth of Jesus, and many of them are downright deceptive in their meaning and origin. Here are a few examples:

      The date of December 25th probably originated with the ancient "birthday" of the son-god, Mithra, a pagan deity whose religious influence became widespread in the Roman Empire during the first few centuries A.D. Mithra was related to the Semitic sun-god, Shamash, and his worship spread throughout Asia to Europe where he was called Deus Sol Invictus Mithras. Rome was well-known for absorbing the pagan religions and rituals of its widespread empire. As such, Rome converted this pagan legacy to a celebration of the god, Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god during the winter solstice period. The winter holiday became known as Saturnalia and began the week prior to December 25th. The festival was characterized by gift-giving, feasting, and singing.

      It didn't become known as "Christmas" until the 4th Century.

      and

      Today would not be called Saturday if it weren't for the ancient god, Saturn. Enjoy your day."

      Answer (which was written several times in different articles): Jesus was born on September 29th, conceived on the 25th of December (read scriptures about Emmanuel coming into the world). The Catholic clergy incorporated Emmanuel's (Jesus Christ's) birthday with the above pagan rituals because they wanted the pagans to come into the church to learn about Jesus. What better way to get these people into the church than to make the church setting comfortable for them with some of their own rituals. Over the years, they rid most of the pagan rituals out of the church.

      Amen.

      October 23, 2011 at 11:59 pm |
    • Guess What

      Heaven Sent - Then don't say, "how would you experience Christmas if Jesus didn't exist?"

      We would most likely have the same type of gift-giving and song-singing winter festival. It would just have a different name.

      October 24, 2011 at 12:05 am |
    • Guess What

      Heaven Sent, and how could today be Monday without the Moon?

      October 24, 2011 at 12:08 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Guess What, you wrote "Heaven Sent – Then don't say, "how would you experience Christmas if Jesus didn't exist?"

      We would most likely have the same type of gift-giving and song-singing winter festival. It would just have a different name."

      Answer: As usual, non-believers take what they want and deny how they got it. If this world were run by non-believer (thank God it isn't) you wouldn't have the creativity or imagination to design such a loving, giving, worshiping day as Christmas. BA HUMBUG IS HOW THE NON-BELIEVERS THINK in their materialistic viewpoint about life.

      As for the moon response. Funny you mentioned Monday instead of any of the other days of the week. Non-believers worship the moon. LOL.

      Amen.

      October 24, 2011 at 1:23 pm |
    • HellBent

      "We would most likely have the same type of gift-giving and song-singing winter festival. It would just have a different name."

      Answer: As usual, non-believers take what they want and deny how they got it."

      Blinders on a bit tight, today, eh HS? Did you realize that the Church (back when there was only one) banned gift giving at one time because of its pagan origins?

      Pot, calling kettle. Come in, kettle...

      October 24, 2011 at 1:29 pm |
    • J.W

      Christmas is a time when people of all religions can come together and worship Jesus Christ. Atheists are free to worship him too.

      October 24, 2011 at 1:31 pm |
    • Seriously?

      "Christmas is a time when people of all religions can come together and worship Jesus Christ"

      That's not true at all – it was stolen from the celebration of Winter Solstice. If you are doing anything you are celebrating that not the day christ was born. Jesus wasn't born in the winter, they changed it to please the pagan religions of that time.

      October 24, 2011 at 1:33 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son, you wrote ""So far you nonbelievers aren't doing so good."

      "How do you know? Got a window into heaven and hell? How do you know what your god decides to do with others, and where do you get the gall to pronounce your judgment as to how anyone else is doing? What humility are YOU practicing, HS?"

      Same answer I've always given you Tommie, Tom under this and every other ridiculous phony handle you use on this site. The Bible is where all my answers are coming from. If you read it like you profess, you'd know exactly what scriptures they are taken from. As for judging. Christians are allowed to discern Jesus' truth. Only Jesus judges everyone on judgement day. As for Christians that come and go on this site to write Jesus' truth to everyone. We do it so you can learn how to save your soul. If you don't want or care to be saved. That's you choice even though you are clueless to the consequences.

      As to what transpired between my bosses and I. I've already written about it back a few articles ago. Get off your duff and read that article where we were posting since you were on that day. P.S. Tommie, Tom, you constantly prove you have no compassion, only that you know the word exists.

      Amen.

      October 24, 2011 at 1:34 pm |
    • J.W

      I never said that he was actually born that day. But it is still celebrated that day. I have not met a single person in my entire life that actually thinks he was born on Dec. 25.

      October 24, 2011 at 1:36 pm |
    • Seriously?

      "But it is still celebrated that day."

      I celebrate Winter Solstice and so do you by celebrating that day. 😉

      October 24, 2011 at 1:39 pm |
    • Chuckles

      Christmas is by far and away the best day of the year, it's honestly the one time a year I also am thrilled such a thing as religion exists. It's the one day that no one really works (except the movie theaters and chinese restaurants apparently) and the jews, atheists, hindus, muslims etc... get the world to themselves while the christians go en masse to mass. The ski mountain – empty, movie theaters – awesome seating, you can hear the silence pervade the chilly air and everyone who is walking about has a smile on their face.

      October 24, 2011 at 1:41 pm |
    • J.W

      You can celebrate whatever you want. I can go trick or treating on St Patricks day if I want to. It is up to the person what they want to celebrate.

      October 24, 2011 at 1:42 pm |
    • Guess What

      Other imaginary gods get much more play in our culture. Some of them get 52 memorials and some get whole months every year.

      All English-speaking people honor the Moon (Monday), the god Tyr (Tuesday), god Woden (Wednesday), god Thor (Thursday), goddess Friga/Freyja (Friday) and god Saturn (Saturday), and the Sun (Sunday) every week... and god Janus (January), the pagan ritual of Februa (February), god Mars (March), goddess Maia (May), and goddess Juno (June) every year.

      And don't forget that we give a whole month to Julius Caesar (July) and Augustus Caesar (August).

      October 24, 2011 at 1:53 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Guess What, I'm glad you know how to search the net. However, this conversation was discussed almost a year ago.

      Snooze.

      Amen.

      October 24, 2011 at 2:28 pm |
    • Guess What

      HeavenSent:

      Now, *that* is a "bratty" response. You are despi-cable.

      October 24, 2011 at 2:41 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      HS, you never fail to live up to my low expectations. I knew you wouldn't tell the truth about your dismissal. You never have.

      You were fired because you were an impediment due to your bellowing about Christ and your insistence that you alone were good enough to go to Paradise. Your work-mates got fed up with your proselytizing and got you fired and for good reason.

      You are truly a repulsive, disgusting person. Who would ever want to emulate you?

      If all so-called Christians were like you, your sort would have died out long ago. Thank goodness there are Christians who are Christ-like in their lives, in their actions, and in their words. You are nothing like them.

      October 24, 2011 at 9:18 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      And what utter baloney you spew about Christmas. There WAS no Christmas until the Christians decided they needed to convert the pagans, you moron.

      Even in the 19th century, Christmas wasn't an especially religious holiday at all.

      Where did you get your crummy education? Oh, that's right–a Bible "college".

      October 24, 2011 at 10:03 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son, you wrote "HS, you never fail to live up to my low expectations. I knew you wouldn't tell the truth about your dismissal. You never have.

      You were fired because you were an impediment due to your bellowing about Christ and your insistence that you alone were good enough to go to Paradise. Your work-mates got fed up with your proselytizing and got you fired and for good reason.

      You are truly a repulsive, disgusting person. Who would ever want to emulate you?

      If all so-called Christians were like you, your sort would have died out long ago. Thank goodness there are Christians who are Christ-like in their lives, in their actions, and in their words. You are nothing like them."

      Answer: The reason you can never comprehend about my bosses dismissals is because you are in their same category. Empty, arrogant, self absorbed, talk a good game but no substance backing you. That's why you keep spinning there hollowness and ineptness onto me. You shallow, hollow folks always point the finger at folks who can and do work. Scary isn't it? In psychology we call you sociopaths.

      Amen.

      October 24, 2011 at 11:35 pm |
    • Over It

      HeavenSent,

      You keep wallowing in self-pity over the long-ago loss of your job, according to you because the bosses were non-believers.

      I lost a job years ago, as a young, naive kid because of the collusion of a Jewish man and a Christian woman against me.

      A close relative had a 30-year successful career obliterated by a Jewish punk and his Christian lackeys.

      Both believers and non-believers can be jerks. From your track record here, though, I tend to think that the real story is quite different that what we hear from you.

      In psychology they call what you have Paranoia - and it reeks from you all over these boards.

      October 24, 2011 at 11:56 pm |
  13. This_Man:)

    im jewish

    October 21, 2011 at 1:48 pm |
  14. This_Guy

    Jewish men.

    October 21, 2011 at 1:47 pm |
  15. kimmieW

    richards hot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    October 21, 2011 at 1:46 pm |
  16. This_Guy

    Kimberly likes richard!

    October 21, 2011 at 1:46 pm |
  17. kimmieW

    hello:)

    October 21, 2011 at 1:45 pm |
  18. jaspal

    20000..official declaration...were genocide by Indian tilling party congress led by indra Ghandi ..not religion..they used Hindu publics..with well planed ...none if them were ever punished .in 1984...the rulersdid it not Muslim or Croatian rather Hindu .majority always create panic for minority.....kind of gadafee rulers.....when they will be punished or when they will brought to justice

    October 21, 2011 at 1:44 pm |
    • Bearer Of Bad News

      I want to be honest with you. Can I? Do you mind if I write freely here?

      Just wanted to say, I have no idea what it is that you said here in your post.

      October 21, 2011 at 10:01 pm |
    • *frank*

      @jaspal
      You may have a good point, but I'll be damned if I can figure out what it is.

      October 22, 2011 at 10:03 am |
  19. a boy

    anybody want to write a short summary bout this article for me?

    October 21, 2011 at 1:41 pm |
    • William Demuth

      Muslims kill Muslim dictator who manipulated Islam.

      Gory footage at 11

      October 21, 2011 at 2:00 pm |
    • Muneef

      He was never that religious to be accused of manipulating Islam...but this was an excuse to support his assassination and who ever gave this statement is the real killer that manipulates the simple minds to make the killing for them as they manipulate the simple minds of youth to do the killings for them...

      October 22, 2011 at 1:52 am |
  20. jaspal

    In 1984 Hindu public killed more than 20000 Sikhs..because rules congress party used Hindu fundamentaist against Sikh..none of any one was punished by Indian court all were equit because every government position holding were hindu judge hindu lawyer hindu police hindu they used their ..full power against Sikhs...there were no Muslim or Cristian they never took part in this genocide....the rulers were culprit not ....

    October 21, 2011 at 1:34 pm |
    • *frank*

      Cool story, bro!

      October 22, 2011 at 4:40 pm |
    • *frank*

      I like the cliff-hanger ending, it leaves the reader wanting more...I can't wait for the next installment of this riveting saga!

      October 22, 2011 at 4:42 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.