October 25th, 2011
12:09 PM ET
My Take: Why Christians are embracing their LGBT neighbors
Editor’s note: Ross Murray is director of religion, faith and values at GLAAD, the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation.
By Ross Murray, Special to CNN
America is embracing its lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender citizens. Don’t believe me? Just look at the progress being made in faith communities.
The Christian church was once considered the final holdout for those who oppose equality for LGBT people. Staunch believers could gather in worship with people who thought just like them to hear sermons affirming the anti-LGBT beliefs they held in common.
For those of us who identify as LGBT, church was a place of fear and secrets. We had to figure out how to hide ourselves or how to find a more welcoming community.
But that is changing.
Although there is still a variety of scriptural interpretations, an increasing number of Christians are reading scripture and understanding that God’s design for the world includes LGBT people. It follows, good Christians believe, that if God made them, then I am called to love and support them.
Whole Christian denominations have accepted and embraced the reality of LGBT believers within their ranks and in their leadership. Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, the United Church of Christ and Unitarians have formally accepted LGBT people within their denominations.
Even within denominations and faith groups whose policies don’t fully welcome LGBT people, there are growing numbers of people who have learned to love and accept their lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender brothers and sisters.
The Public Religion Research Institute found this year that as many as 71% of Catholics in America support lesbian and gay people, even up to the point of civil marriage, despite the Roman Catholic hierarchy telling them otherwise.
Of course, there still are Christian groups who work actively against equal protections for LGBT people and their families.
Indeed, as more Americans get to know and love their LGBT neighbors, the messages and vocal misinformation of anti-gay activists become even more shrill.
And yet more and more Christians are now living out the message of 1 John 4:18, “There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear.”
How did this happen? More Christians now know someone who is LGBT. They probably even know someone from their church. There are countless faithful Christians who identify as LGBT.
These are folks who have found their faith in God to be stronger than the opposition of vocal anti-gay activists.
These LGBT Christians have shared their lives and their stories that build up love and break down fear, leading to tangible progress, especially with young people.
According to the Public Religion Research Institute, there is at least a 20-point gap between those ages 18 to 29 and those ages 65 and older on every public policy measure in the survey concerning equality for gay and lesbian people, with younger Americans gravitating toward equality.
Even Christian-identified young people increasingly support protections for lesbian and gay people, the same survey found.
Those who oppose equality can call it what they like, but the reality is that we are living in a society that has learned how to value LGBT people as they would others.
That attitude doesn’t rely on fear or lies, but on caring relationships and trust. It lives out the apostle Paul’s wish for the Corinthians that someday we will know fully, even as we are fully known. It is a biblically informed reality that is helping to make the world a better place.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Ross Murray.
About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.
I've always loved my neighbor, whether or not they were Straight or LGBT. I still believe in the sinful nature of man and how it is expressed. Condemning sin is never about the person, only the choices that we are free to make. Choices have consequences, driving drunk might kill you, sleeping around with the wrong person might get you an STD, etc, etc.
We're all sinners, even the most saintly on this planet. Love each other because of it and in spite of it. Do NOT support sin or try to normalize it.
As soon as people stop using the term "sin," we can have a civilized conversation. I beg you, please leave the caveman book behind and join the rest of us in reality.
Sin is Sin and I will call it by no other name. If you do not wish to discuss the topic with regards to my belief than we have no mutual grounds to begin a conversation and it will quickly degrade into strawmans and name calling.
The sooner that many Christians actually BELIEVE they are all sinners, the sooner the Golden Rule will be practiced. Until then, it's "everyone is a sinner, but let's trash gays".
Belief that one is a sinner is a requirement of the Christian faith. To accept the grace that is offered to you, you have to freely admit that you are in need of that grace.
I am not sure I understand your point, aside from a good many self proclaimed 'Christians' acting like hypocrites. I can agree with that.
You are here supporting the condemnation of gays for their "abomination". Do you tell any remarried Christians that they should divorce so they no longer are commiting adultery? Do you tell people working on the Sabbath that they are sinning?
I'm not a name caller here.
Here is the problem. The bible is wrong. There is absolutely no getting around this. If you read it as it is written, then it contradicts itself and therefore voids itself. This means that "sin" is just a made up word used to control others. Society can function just fine without christianity. Marriage for example, existed long before the bible was written. Many christians are blissfully ignorant of this fact. They are also not aware of what the bible says should be done to gays. When it's quoted, the majority of them have said to me, "That's not in the bible!" Oh really! Start reading Leviticus then. Naturally, a christian will then say, "But that's in the old testament. We don't have to abide by the old law anymore because of jesus!"
Then, I go on to say, "Well, that's not entirely true. The jesus was quoted in the bible as saying he was not here to abolish the old law. But of course the bible contradicts itself on this one, much like it does many other things. Another example is jesus being quoted multiple times about how he'd return within the generation of his living followers (the followers living while he was alive), but he didn't. This derails the religion of christianity 100% right here."
Then the christian goes on to tell me I'm misinterpreting the bible. But, I'm not, since the scripture tells us that the bible was not written as a matter of personal (or private) interpretation by the prophets. So, now that we know that the bible was written majestically by "prophets" from god and it was not interpreted, this means that god in short allegedly wrote the bible. The same bible which tells us to put gays to death. The same bible that screws up the order of creation within the first two chapters of genesis by offering two different accounts. The same bible that claims god wrote the ten commandments, promised to write the same commandments again after moses broke the first set, and then writes a completely different set of commandments.
In short, christianity is a farce. It amazes me that still today with our ability to educate ourselves and move forward, people are still drawn back to this caveman book based on dead religions such as judaism and greek mythology.
Of course, you'll ignore this and continue believing in it. Which is the same reason why years ago, I too was unable to have a civilized conversation with anyone. I still believed in "sin."
You said, "Sin is Sin and I will call it by no other name. If you do not wish to discuss the topic with regards to my belief than we have no mutual grounds to begin a conversation and it will quickly degrade into strawmans and name calling."
Part of the problem is in the definition of "sin". A sin is a violation of religious rules. Unless you are a member of that particular religion, those rules don't apply. If a rule doesn't apply to you, you can't violate it. Sinning is therefor, by definition, reserved for those that subscribe to religion.
So, when you speak of "sin", it has to apply only to members of your own religion. So, unless gays voluntarily subscribe to your religion, they do not sin.
@ Bearer of bad news you said:
As soon as people stop using the term "sin," we can have a civilized conversation.
Here is the problem. The bible is wrong. There is absolutely no getting around this. If you read it as it is written, then it contradicts itself and therefore voids itself. This means that "sin" is just a made up word used to control others.
It's not the bible neither nor the religion was the one creating or defining the word "sin". You might want to make an appeal to Webster's, Britanica, Encarta, Thesaurus et'al.
If you want to say that murder, ra.pe, stealing, etc. is not a "SIN", what d'yo call it then? FUN?
Wow..I mean WOW!!!!! I would rather let my 3 year-old boy to be acquainted with filthy LGBT,........ pedophile ra.pist, psychopath killer and rabid dogs than to talk to a cute stranger like you.
Sin is a religious term. No way of getting around it. If you want to believe otherwise, then you probably think Santa is real too.
Murder is a crime. Not a sin. Period. Now go and argue something practical.
I knew my Son would fuddle things up,,, As it now stands, who then is left with open mindedness far away from perdition's gates to revel with soundness of mindings relavent to spiritual awakenings? Where have all the Gods hidden themsevles? Inwardly they do splurge themselves to jostle with smallminded gods whom the Gods use as fodder. Time is my keeper and I will just wait in Patience for their soon returning to be adjudicated by their righteous Acts and embittered Tribulations.
I rule all things from the very smallest to the very largest. Nothingness is my Holy Spirit which traverses everywhere that things are.
god, built by Gods and Goddesses forever to live inside thye body of GOD
71% of christians "support gay and lesbian people"? So what? They vote against us; that's not support. It's hypocrisy.
They did not print the full statement polled. 71% of Christians support tossing Gay and Lesbian people into those wood chipper machines, like that guy did to Steve Buscemi at the end of Fargo.
fear- self defense--and the pecking order-
that's all I'm saying
Dwarf tossing, Froot Loops, defenestration.
That's all I'm saying
Bearer of Bad News....life without God is lonely and empty. You will soon find as you age and learn, that the world offers nothing in and of itself. Pretty soon it is "Been there and done that", and it all gets old and withers like the grass. What will you have after that ?
so because you age you are closer to being dead you wish there was a god and therefore lie to yourself making you believe there is one and poof your dumber for it. yay for you and your stupid god.
So according to your logic, because people age, they should live a lie their whole lives?
The main reason life is lonely when you are old is that God killed all your friends already!
There is no doubt that giving up one's delusions can be a challenge. That is no reason to remain infantile.
Actually, life "with" this god of yours is lonely. After all, when you're praying you are only talking to yourself. I was once a christian. Do not sit here and preach to me about how I must not have been a "real" christian. I've heard that from plenty of believers who are still drowning in their own spit and tears. Not long ago, I finally woke up and realized I'd been wasting my life away trying to prepare for an afterlife that does not exist. There's plenty of information out there for you to read that will completely debunk the bible by using scripture from the bible to do it. The bible screws itself, HARD.
I bet you're afraid to do some research.
While you're lonely and empty with your inner void filled by hot air, I'll be enjoying the company of my friends and family instead of sitting around in church discussing how the imaginary sky ninja is so awesome even though it's afraid to show it's face.
to be religious is to be insane. thats is perfect logic!
Easy on the flesh and bo-ners. There are children in this here blog! And you don't want to encourage that Pedo God!
Ecclesiastes 7:17-18 Do Not Be Overly Wicked, Nor Be Foolish; Why Should You Die Before Your Time ? 18 It Is Good That You Grasp This, And Also Not Remove Your Hand From The Other; For He Who Fears God Escapes Them All.
Are you trying to make a pass at me?? I love it when you talk dirty.
Revelation 9:6 In Those Days Men Will Seek Death And Will Not Find It; They Will Desire To Die, And Death Will Flee From Them.
Bandit Job 5:17-18 Behold Happy Is The Man Whom The Lord Corrects; Therefore Do Not Despise The Chastening Of The Almighty. For He Bruises, But He Binds Up He Wounds But His Hands Make Whole. Peace
Oh you naughty boy...stop! I can't.....take......it.......ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
"incest is present in the Bible, but it was not directly credited with any re-population effort"
More nonsense. Incredible. According to the Bible, at one point the population of the world was 4. There were 3 men (Adam, Cain, and Abel) and 1 woman (Eve). Are you puzzled about who the men had s3x with?
Second PROOF: After the flood, the population was just Noah, his wife, their sons and wives. Now tell me there was no incest between Noah's grandchildren to continue to populate the earth.
You two seem a little obsessed with incest. Anything you need to share with the group?
Oh and note that Adam and Eve likely died at around 16, so 'god' must be a pedo watching them do it all day.
And from that tiny group on Noah's Ark, we got all these different races like Asiatic and African and Hispanic and so many others, all in a couple thousand years, all without the help of evolution.
Which obviously makes sense.
Breeding or 'relations" with close relations is forbidden and is harmful to all. God accepted relationships among cousins (Isaac and Rebecca). God knows genetics, he created genetics. God and Paul do not teach inferiority of women or slavery of women.
Regarding someone being disabled or unclean coming into the temple, do not misunderstand. Much of the Old Testament was a "shadow of things to come" , and example, symbolic. When we offer ourselves to God, we must be walking in righteousness and blameless (God's righteousness not man's). We must be clean from sin, washed by the blood of Jesus Christ, by believing he is the son of God and died to reconcile us to God, to conquer what is evil, and the evil powers and principalities, to conquer death. We cannot have blemish or crippling disease (symbolic of sin) when entering God's Kingdom. We must put off all wickedness, arrogance, selfishness, hate, anger, idolatry etc.
Have you actually read the Bible? Your response seems to indicate you've never seen it. Read the quotes I supplied to Itzachoice so you'll have some idea what the Bible says.
Sheila, so the specific instruction in the old testament telling christians to put gays to death was just... "a shadow?"
Thanks for the laugh.
so having s e x with men is bad huh... i guess jesus is in hell then! cause my dad says he is inside him all day every day!
The spirit of jesus is delusional, and if you happen to be a child of a religiously believer parent, your best option is to get out.
Welcome to the dumb joke club. I have had a couple myself today.
Proverbs 3:7-8 Do Not Be Wise In Your Own Eyes, Fear The Lord And Depart From Evil. It Will Be Health To Your Flesh And Strength To Thy Bones.Peace
my old man is a priest... he beats me, touches me and my brothers... then tells us biblical stories to make what he does ok.
i just want a good way to tell him that i am gay without him getting super mad and attacking me saying that i am damned to hell. In his eyes, being gay is bad and i for all my life can't find a single passage in HIS BOOK that says what he believes!
Humpy, the scripture you seek is in Leviticus. It says what should be done with gays. The bible, gosh it's so loving.
To Observer: You should quote the bible more accurately.
7:1,2 – "...it is good for a man not to touch a woman. (2) But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband." [HINT-HINT –> "Husband and Wife / Wife and Husband", not husband & husband nor wife & wife]
7:8,9 – "But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. (9) But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion."
See how VERY different this is compared to your distortion??? And by the way, verse 8 is a mere suggestion by Paul because as you can read the words [even as I], he was implying that it is easier to serve the Lord as a single person than if you had the responsibilities of a married person caring for a family. Paul loved and served the Lord so much that he felt that it is better serving Him than getting hitched. You have to read anything in the Bible in its 'context'. There's no way around this topic, or any other topic in the Bible for that matter.
Actually, you shouldn't quote the Bible. It just makes you look silly. Enema?
My statement was exactly correct. Paul said that people shouldn't marry, but if they couldn't control their lust, they can. Your statements reflect just what I said.
Seriously, is there a reading comprehension problem for you?
You don't have to remind me of that. I already know that! It's in the bible:
1 Corinthians 2:14 - "But a worldly man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I'm always fascinated when Christians claim through such quotes that the those who don't believe are "worldly" or "smart". Why brag about the intelligence of those who disagree? Pretty bad argument.
My previous comment was directed to The Illinois Enema Bandit regarding looking silly.
To OBSERVER: No, no reading comprehension problems here. Just stating the bible verses you wrote more accurately so people can understand them better. Now that I think about it, that is how the bible is misunderstood and not followed correctly (or at all), by people being inaccurate in quoting it and misinterpreting its meaning by not keeping what's read in its exact context.
Here is your quote. "But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion."
It's what I SAID. You can't twist what Paul said to make it say that it's BEST to marry unless you want to acknowledge that it should be only when there is no self-control for passion.
Jesus is also quoted in the bible saying that people who get married won't see his kingdom. How's that for marriage?
Huh?!? Where? This is the very reason why when I quote someting from the bible, I reveal the verses. This way, you will know that the origin of my quote is directly from the Bible, not form me...though I fully believe in it.
Don't ever say I didn't give you anything.
The Sadducees, a Jewish sect that rejected the idea of resurrection, try to entrap Jesus by asking him the following question: If a woman marries a husband who then dies, and she remarries, and if this happens multiple times, which man's wife will she be in Heaven? Jesus responds that "they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage."
@Observer "My statement was exactly correct. Paul said that people shouldn't marry, but if they couldn't control their lust, they can."
=>that is not correct, Paul said it is better to be celibate, but he did NOT say they should not marry, they are very different things. Note: The apostle Peter was married, a fact that Paul mentioned.
@Bearer Of Bad News "Jesus is also quoted in the bible saying that people who get married won't see his kingdom. How's that for marriage?"
=>No he didnt, you are badly misreading that verse.
Luke 20:35 has to do with the fact that in Heaven, people wont be married. He is NOT saying that married people wont go to heaven.
No. You are incorrect. That's what you get for interpreting the bible. Remember what the bible says about interpretation.
look, it's very simple
– Saducees didnt believe in resurrection
– They were trying to present Jesus with a scenario proving there could be no resurrection, namely the problem of who's wife would this woman be in heaven if she legally had several husbands on earth
– Jesus pointed out that in heaven, people do not get married, so it wasnt a problem.
Luke 20: 27 Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question. 28 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother. 29 Now there were seven brothers. The first one married a woman and died childless. 30 The second 31 and then the third married her, and in the same way the seven died, leaving no children. 32 Finally, the woman died too. 33 Now then, at the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?”
34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection. 37 But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’[b] 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”
I've read the bible. Dozens of times. Please stop interpreting.
Jesus said castration was a good idea
"For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." Mat: 19:12
Why do your little Christian brains find it so hard to imagine a universe / multi-verse where OUR God was created by another God, or that our God is one of many Gods. The scope of the universe is beyond our comprehension. Can you not admit that you don't know anything? NONE of know anything. We are not equipped to comprehend either the very large or the very small. We are instead equipped to be curious and search. If there is a God, I feel confident he would be proud of our science and our search for truth. I am sure he would be happier if more of us were using our brains but oh well. He did not say anything, He did not write anything and he does not meddle in our affairs. That seems so obvious that I will never understand "praying" and all that arcane nonsense. People are born how they are born. End of story thumpers. By the way, I still need those Bibles so keep 'em coming.
And just a quick re-post I sent to HP:
If someone can convince me that ANYONE would CHOOSE to be belittled, scoffed at, turned away, made fun of, discriminated against, be a victom of hate crimes, shunned by friends and family, isolated and beat up mentally and physically, then you can tell me it is a choice. Logic and science says people are born how they are born. Love and Live Christian haters. (And send me your Bibles. Still need more tissue.)
Come on Christians, RESPOND! Share some of that SOUND Bible logic with the 'ol bandit!
Observer – the Bible does not "support" slavery, it simply acknowledged its existence and in some case gave simple instructions for how a follower of God should act if they found themselves a salve or salve owner. Slavery in the time of the old testament was a legitimate way for people to pay off debts. Racial, forced slavery is never supported. Similarly, the Bible does not "support" the claim that women are inferior to men. It simply states that man was created first and man has a role as the spiritual leader. Women have their roles in society and in the family, but women are encouraged to be submissive to men in spiritual matters. Does being submissive imply inferiority? You are submissive to the police in matters of security, but as a human are you inferior to them? Lastly, incest is present in the Bible, but it was not directly credited with any re-population effort. One of the great theological questions is where did Cain ans Able's wives come from? Does it say anything about that? Could God not have created wives (or husbands) for these early creations like He did for Adam?
When did you choose to be straight?
And if slavery is a good way to pay off debts, why don't we allow for that today? Is polygamy also cool?
Does being submissive imply inferiority? Um YES.
Seriously your comment must be a joke, I certainly hope so.
But it does raise a good question, why on Earth would women want to be religious? It's crazy.
"slavery in the time of the old testament was a legitimate way for people to pay off debts."
Huh so the fact that it was also in the NT does that mean now it's ok? LOL!
1 Timothy 6
1 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2 Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare[a] of their slaves.
5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
New International Version (NIV)
20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.
"Observer – the Bible does not "support" slavery, it simply acknowledged its existence and in some case gave simple instructions for how a follower of God should act if they found themselves a salve or salve owner'
Complete nonsense. Read the Bible. God's words: " – Exodus 21:20-21 “If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property”
"the Bible does not "support" the claim that women are inferior to men."
More nonsense. There are many examples like this: – Deuteronomy 22:28 “If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and r@pes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.” So he "violates" her and gets to marry her and she is FORCED to marry her rapist.
so can some christians tell me why its wrong to be gay? i am very curious! AND please supply the words from the book of your choice that make your belief valid. thank you.
Sorry, can't help myself sometimes. I made a God dick joke earlier that was just awful.
i am just willing to bet that i know more about the bible and those people in the bible then most believers...and hatin on gays is not there. it is an addition added later around the 3rd & 4th century a.d.
These people don't have an original thought in there heads. They just regurgitate what they hear in church. Pathetic.
i am noi believer but if you know as much as you claim your worth a convo...whats your area of study?
hippypoet, i study truth. there is truth to the bible but i am afraid that most is just stories of events taking place...not much to do about the people who are claimed to be present at t said events. I have seen you say Joshua, you are good to know that and still call him by his name.
LOL, truth... is there such in the world of today when everything is placed on an alter of interperation... and sry, i can't spell.
So i thought we were going to have a biblical convo testing each others knowledge? it is far more fun to have it with a silly small minded one, a.k.a., a religious believer.
We Know Truth, Every Man Will Give An Account, (Words And Deeds) Job Chapter 34-21 For His Eyes Are On The Ways Of Man, And He Sees All His Steps. There Is No Darkness Nor Shadow Of Death Where The Workers Of Iniquity May Hide Themselves.
oh we found one!
so steve... you quote the book but so me a quote that means something to today's people...not anything about death as that can not be claimed by any to be anything but an idea of what may or may not happen after ones death. Give a quote that affects you day to day. then we can have some fun showing you to be stupid. And please remember, you wanted this so be nice and say thank you. you may began.
LOL wow thats funny sh!t.... the amount of niceness with rudeness was flawless! lots of esses i no! lol
'LGBT people' ? Again christians with their crazy newspeak and AGAIN re-interpretations of the bible.
For years (even extremely recent years, possibly months) christians have been saying gays will burn in hell for eternity!
But, oh no, NOW, oh this is accepted by their god, and its likely somewhere in their bible, you just need to read in between and then in between the lines again?
By the way if any intelligent life ever did come to earth and say OBVIOUSLY science is correct, then christians will of course say oh we accept other intelligent life forms too, they are going to Earth's heaven as well??
Christians are HYPOCRITES, the mere fact that the entirety of religious views change with society ALL the time and has always done this (usually after persecuting those new society ideas for years with bloodshed) MUST MEAN that religion is WRONG.
How can religion change? Does heaven change too? Maybe animals and trees are allowed in these days.
It's truly pathetic that the 'church' do a 180 degee back flip when science is proven right all the time, but during this time the 'scientists' are disrespected by religious believers in their unfounded pathetic beliefs in jesus spirits.
I'm truly ashamed of religion in our society. Its disgusting, it holds NO place what so ever in modern society, and is there to just constantly put up walls of terror, usually based at innocent children and the weak.
Come on guys, THINK, religion is out, make THIS one the good reason for it. If the end of the world or the fact that christians believe that ALL (ie ALL) innocent children of the world that don't believe in their 'lord' will either burn in hell for eternity! Or will just turn to dust and can't go to heaven?
Now, is the time to laugh religion out of our society, now is the time to keep religious viewpoints away from our innocent children.
Of COURSE gays are people, most guys even adore lesbians already, as for men on men (ok yuk) but if they love each other WE ALL ACCEPT it already, since about 30 or 40 years now! Oh but the church now say they can go to heaven? Well guess what, gays (and the other of those stated) have ALREADY left church behind, ie As soon as the church said no to their marriage they took off, and rightly so.
Before religion changes again to suit present society views (as per normal) Know this, religion (all of them) are backward fools that only serve the purpose of opposing society and inducing fear into your children (or your grandchildren that haven't been born yet) DON'T let religion hurt you or your children any more. As far as I'm concerned this should be the tip of the iceberg for some of you unsure out there, get ridiculous religious out of here.
@ kimsland, et al,,,"It's truly pathetic that the 'church' do a 180 degee back flip when science is proven right all the time, but during this time the 'scientists' are disrespected by religious believers in their unfounded pathetic beliefs in jesus spirits."
“If one purges the Judaism of the Prophets and Christianity as Jesus Christ taught it of all subsequent additions, especially those of the priests, one is left with a teaching which is capable of curing all the social ills of humanity. It is the duty of every man of good will to strive steadfastly in his own little world to make this teaching of pure humanity a living force, so far as he can.” (Albert Einstein, Ideas and Opinions, New York, Bonanza Books, 1954, 184-185).
“After all, haven’t the differences between Jew and Christian been overexaggerated by fanatics on both sides? We both are living under God’s approval, and nurture almost identical spiritual capacities. Jew or Gentile, bond or free, all are God’s own.” (Einstein, as cited in H.G. Garbedian, Albert Einstein: Maker of Universes, New York, Funk and Wagnalls Co., 1939, 267).
Copied from http://nobelists.net/
Great rant. There is so much Christian sh-it in this blog that I am going to be performing enemas for weeks. It is not pleasant work but you can join me if you wish. I am trying to collect as many Bibles as I can to use for tissue. Gonna need a lot with these people. Can you give a person a brain enema? I need to work on that.
@The Illinois Enema Bandit
Here's one for you.
According to religious believers god is everywhere. Why he's in that person and he's in your home.
WELL in that case, he's ALSO in my sh1t, and I flush that down the toilet all the time.
I expect we all should flush this nonsense down the toilet. As that's where it belongs.
I can help with that! I can just keep pumpin' up will all the bag fulla Illinois Enema Bandit Juice. A clean colon is a happy colon.
As always prophets determine what is true for Christianity and since the profits are noticeably down Christianity is now looking for new sources of cash. In the eyes of god all money is green, no matter what it’s $exual orientation
So an article claims that Christians aren't anywhere near the half-witted bigots they are often portrayed as being and a bunch of Christians post "oh yes we are!"
Bless their bigoted little hearts.
Post of the day.
I wish they had a "like" button! Better yet, Love! Great post...
NO way I will be the last one standing on this issue.......GOD's true Church will never take a back seat to this evil that is across this sinful land.
Yep. Follow the Bible. Support slavery. Support discrimination against the handicapped. Support the inferiority of women. You can even support incest although the Bible condemns it, since it was God's method of choice to populate the earth TWICE.
Just pick and choose.
God's true church" = code for : "agree with me, or you disagree with god, (as I speak for it, the maker of billions of galaxies)". Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
"GOD's true Church will never take a back seat to this evil "
Oh so what about the other evils you're over looking like adultery, gluttony, greed, lying, etc.... You do see the hypcrisy right? All you have to do is go to your church see who is divorces, see who is fat or obese, who is driving that expensive car, etc... LOL!
Do you actually believe what you just wrote? Tell me just how Jesus said any of that is right?
"Tell me just how Jesus said any of that is right"
Duh...Jesus orders Christians to follow the Law of Moses in the Old Testament: "Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)" It is quite clear from these verses from the New Testament that Jesus peace be upon him did honor the Old Testament and did say that every single "letter" of it has to be honored, followed and fulfilled.
So all of the bible applies to Christians, including the dark ages mentality in the OT.
"Do you actually believe what you just wrote? Tell me just how Jesus said any of that is right?"
I quoted what the Bible says. What is your issue? It was in Paul's statements that you can find support for slavery and the inferiority of women. God using incest to populate the world is obvious. The Old Testament said God didn't want disfigured people in church. I don't understand your question at all. It's all in the Bible.
What evil are you referring to?
Terran Houston wrote on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 at 6:32 pm, stating, "NO way I will be the last one standing on this issue.......GOD's true Church will never take a back seat to this evil that is across this sinful land."
GOD.s true churches are the temples that are OUR BODIES and the Kingdoms of the Gods are upon the INSIDE of our Bodies. Go figure,,,,,?
1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Even though many of us are as temples and kingdoms many are but as buildings,,,,,,,
1Cr 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.
Contemplate these verses and seek the Holy Spirit's guidance upon the Word,, 😐
Don't worry. The sane parts of the world will always be there to kick you right into the back seat again.
Jesus came to serve was he a slave, no. Jesus spoke we should not be a slave to sin. We are under Grace since Christ rose again. In Pauls time women in that culture had different responsibilites. God always maintains unity in relationships. To maintain unity there is always an order. That order is God, man, woman yet in Christ woman is loved as the church thus she is exhaulted and given the best from her husband. Women subserviance is not the thrust.
ok from a religious standpoint if being g@y is a choice but still there anyway then its a sign of the devil's infection right?
Or are we in agreement that it is not a choice and just another form of human?
i need to straighten this crap out now!
If someone can convince me that ANYONE would CHOOSE to be belittled, scoffed at, turned away, made fun of, discriminated against, be a victom of hate crimes, shunned by friends and family, isolated and beat up mentally and physically, then you can tell me it is a choice. Logic and science says people are born how they are born. Love and Live Christian haters. (And send me your Bibles. Still need more tissue.)
i completely agree, and i don't seem to be getting much of a response either... i think they (the du mb ignorant believers who can't aruge what they don't understand) don't like being made to look as they are – stupid. believing in something you can't prove or even show the workings of is sad, childish, and a tad insane. hence why making a point to argue is partly insane as well. so maybe i thought 2 insane folks could have a convo but alas stupid insanity bows the head in shame against the logic based insanity. what ya gunna do?
As the 'world' turns so goes the 'human condition'. For the conditioning of humans are of polarizing agendaships tantamount to the sacrilegious treacheries. Between the pages do run the ink wells of abominations, ever blotting the most perfect unionization of the marriage decrees. Such plagiarisms outside of the normal molding of marriage can only bring down the most noble unions of man/woman marriages. Come to the party and be glorified with the embitterment of ill gotten civilities all for public somberness' sakes. Dregs to the lot of them who bewail to allow the abominations of unholy man/man or the like' matrimonies.
And bible-thumpers and "red-necks" will be with us until rational thinking once again prevails.
Reality wrote on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 at 6:28 pm, stating, "And bible-thumpers and "red-necks" will be with us until rational thinking once again prevails."
"Anti-theists" and their "Anti-theism" agendaships will always be an eyesore to be attended to. Maybe 'Anti-theistic' guides need to be added to the mixture? Maybe then GOD will sort it all out when we die and depart back into the Kingdom of God which is inside one's body? Ration(s) is the root word of rationed, rational, rationalized and rationalizing don't ya know? Still, rationalism is just a very small piece of the overall wholesomeness of the human conditioning.
All that work. And this is how G-D rewards me ...
Noah Webster wrote on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 at 6:47 pm, "All that work. And this is how G-D rewards me ..."
Until now, I never knew you,,,,,,,,,, 🙂
Well, G-D, you might want to acquaint yourself with some of my work!
Noah Webster wrote on Tuesday, October 25, 2011 at 7:09 pm, stating, "Well, G-D, you might want to acquaint yourself with some of my work!"
I know of an Ark and dictionaries. I have the encyclopedia brittanica. Is this what you ponder of me? 😐
I give up. I can't take it anymore.
Ending with a prayer:
The Apostles' Creed 2011: (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)
Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????
I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)
Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,
He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.
From the serpents mouth, the great deceiver AKA Satan to Eve:
"Did God really say, 'you must not eat from any tree in the garden?"
""Did God really say, 'you must not eat from any tree in the garden?""
Duh based on your book, you god created everything, both satan and eve, then knew eve would choose knowledge so he could condemn his creation through fear to follow and love him...yeah...that makes for a great god. Or your god isn't all knowing as you are trying to portray it.... LOL! OH...my bad it's all fiction to begin with.
In the beginning God created and said it was GOOD ! Satan and all you refer to was the choice of evil and to do evil. You have the same choice each and every day. Why do you choose evil? Would you rather God gave you no choice ?
"In the beginning God created and said it was GOOD ! Satan and all you refer to was the choice of evil and to do evil. "
So you're saying your god didn't know satan would choose to be evil?
Would you rather God gave you no choice ?
Everyone always has a choice no matter what they do. In the worst, most dictatorial tyrannical nation, a ruthless dictator always gives the choice to do exactly as told or suffer a horrible fate.
Of course God knew and had a plan in place before it happened. In the Bible you see the complete circle for Satan and man. A simple point is when Jesus from the cross said "it is finished". Now, we know more happened but, the redemption of Gods people and Gods plan is finished. What comes from that point forward is life or death. As Moses said thousands of years before you have before you life or death choose one or the other. As God told Eve you will surly die
I wonder: do you folks who think all gays are going to hell believe they'll just stop being gay because of your opinion? Or that they'll stop having s 3x?
Would you stop doing so if some nut made a claim that YOU would be sinning if you had ss3x?
Fred, you think god had a plan? Then explain the alleged worldwide flood that killed everyone. Correct me if I'm wrong, but god expressed regret at creating mankind in the bible. That means god had no bloody clue what it was doing. No plan, just a kid in a playground wondering if it should take a hefty bite out of the dog poo it just found on the ground. The god of the bible is an idiot. It allegedly creates an entire universe, but can't get a single book right? AND PEOPLE ACTUALLY BELIEVE IN IT?!?!?!
Yes, in the past we would help those that wanted to stop ho mo$exual "sin". Most of them remain celibate today, others have gone to churches that do not call it "sin". In the last 4 years no one has wanted to change their ho mo$exual behavior but were looking to change other parts of their lives.
There is some debate if the flood you refer to was local or global. Eitherway you bought the decepters Kool-Aid and lost the point that the flood was an explaination of Gods love for Noah that he protected and carried him on to continue the line of Adam. The point of God greiving over the bad generation Cain is age old and is repeated several times. God is Good and when horid people do bad things he is troubled. Point is God is not indifferent to pain. God wants what is best for you and has done everything that can be done to save you.
You didn't answer the whole question. Did they actually stop being gay? Sounds like they didn't; they just stopped having s3x. If someone told you that you must stop having s3x with a woman and must now either become celibate or have s3x only with another man, how would you feel about that?
Why should they deny the very essence of themselves, when god made them the way they are?
No one changes without cause and there was cause behind the change in $exul behavior.
I don't drink kool-aid. I'm just talking about what I've read in the bible. The caveman god regrets, gets angry and kills as many people as it can. Love for noah? Save one man and kill all the rest? How'd noah repopulate the earth with humans? More angels? There's plenty of speculation on a worldwide vs local flood, but if you say it's local, then you're disputing the words of the bible. If you can free of conscience dispute one thing in the bible, why can't you dispute the rest?
Something I've noticed about you fred.... You don't really know the bible that well. You know the major stories, but that's about it. To me, it seems as though you're regurgitating what you've been told, rather than what you really know. Of the things you do know, you try to interpret these things in your own way, which is against what the bible says.
This caveman god came along and murdered countless amounts of people to "carry on the line of adam" as you believe. All of the people it killed were also in the line of adam based on this book. So that point is completely wasted. It was trying to exterminate evil in the world via mass genocide. But it failed, as it always does. This line of adam you speak of still contained the alleged evil of sin and satan, did it not? If god was so all-knowing, how'd it manage to screw it all up? It is completely without logic to believe in a "perfect" being that can't get any of this right.
I have to ask, how is it that you can possibly still believe in this with all of the information in the bible that contradicts itself?
Go to bed, fred. You aren't making sense.
I forgot to add something about that serpent. The bible doesn't mention satan at that point. You're making an assumption.
At the very beginning of verse 3:1 in Genesis the Serpent is crafty.
The serpent is not called satan. Crafty and satan are not synonymous with each other.
@DUH: It’s like giving a baby razor blades to play with and claiming it’s not your fault when the kid gets cut
Reality: Great job... so what happened to free will and sin?
"Of course, those gays who belong to Abrahamic religions abide by the rules of no adu-ltery or for-nication allowed."