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 Some Christian denominations have officially welcomed gays and lesbians in recent years.
October 25th, 2011
12:09 PM ET
My Take: Why Christians are embracing their LGBT neighborsEditor’s note: Ross Murray is director of religion, faith and values at GLAAD, the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation. By Ross Murray, Special to CNN America is embracing its lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender citizens. Don’t believe me? Just look at the progress being made in faith communities. The Christian church was once considered the final holdout for those who oppose equality for LGBT people. Staunch believers could gather in worship with people who thought just like them to hear sermons affirming the anti-LGBT beliefs they held in common. For those of us who identify as LGBT, church was a place of fear and secrets. We had to figure out how to hide ourselves or how to find a more welcoming community. But that is changing. Although there is still a variety of scriptural interpretations, an increasing number of Christians are reading scripture and understanding that God’s design for the world includes LGBT people. It follows, good Christians believe, that if God made them, then I am called to love and support them. Whole Christian denominations have accepted and embraced the reality of LGBT believers within their ranks and in their leadership. Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, the United Church of Christ and Unitarians have formally accepted LGBT people within their denominations. Even within denominations and faith groups whose policies don’t fully welcome LGBT people, there are growing numbers of people who have learned to love and accept their lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender brothers and sisters. The Public Religion Research Institute found this year that as many as 71% of Catholics in America support lesbian and gay people, even up to the point of civil marriage, despite the Roman Catholic hierarchy telling them otherwise. Of course, there still are Christian groups who work actively against equal protections for LGBT people and their families. Indeed, as more Americans get to know and love their LGBT neighbors, the messages and vocal misinformation of anti-gay activists become even more shrill. And yet more and more Christians are now living out the message of 1 John 4:18, “There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear.” How did this happen? More Christians now know someone who is LGBT. They probably even know someone from their church. There are countless faithful Christians who identify as LGBT. These are folks who have found their faith in God to be stronger than the opposition of vocal anti-gay activists. These LGBT Christians have shared their lives and their stories that build up love and break down fear, leading to tangible progress, especially with young people. According to the Public Religion Research Institute, there is at least a 20-point gap between those ages 18 to 29 and those ages 65 and older on every public policy measure in the survey concerning equality for gay and lesbian people, with younger Americans gravitating toward equality. Even Christian-identified young people increasingly support protections for lesbian and gay people, the same survey found. Those who oppose equality can call it what they like, but the reality is that we are living in a society that has learned how to value LGBT people as they would others. That attitude doesn’t rely on fear or lies, but on caring relationships and trust. It lives out the apostle Paul’s wish for the Corinthians that someday we will know fully, even as we are fully known. It is a biblically informed reality that is helping to make the world a better place. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Ross Murray. soundoff (2,403 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Next »
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I am going to laugh my ass off on judgement day when al of you gay haters are trying to explain to god how you were so easily duped by satan.
"but God, it says so right in this book.
"Satan wrote that book"
"Oh crap, I thought you wrote it"
"Nope, Satan. Down elevator for you!!!"
There won't be much laughing on judgement day, especially for those who pass judgement on any brother or sister. Maybe wailing and grinding of teeth though...
gnashing..... it's gnashing of teeth. They will not be grinding their teeth. I know because the bable tells me so. Grinding of teeth....hahahahaha.
JESUS IS COMING SOON
So you just got this news from 2,000 years ago? Try to get a faster Internet connection.
Jesus is coming. Look busy.
I am not gay, or christian.
I know which group scares me more.
2 Thessalonians 2 :9
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but shad pleasure in unrighteousness.
You get that gay people are saved through christ right...so what's your point? LMAO!
You guys – that's why it's an opinion piece on the opinion blog, with a tltle that begins with the words 'my take'. It's a personal view.
And now we're all here, debating over his view point. I guess we have no lives...
"Abrahamics" believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the g-ay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore ga-ys are ga-y because god made them that way.
To wit:
o The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:
“ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice.[60] "
"Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8
Of course, those gays who belong to Abrahamic religions abide by the rules of no adu-ltery or for-nication allowed.
And because of basic biology differences said monogamous ventures should always be called same-se-x unions not same-se-x marriages.
@ Reality: you keep posting this piece over & over, but it does not accomplish what you think it does.
'Being born this way' does not make it alright. An alcoholic was born with a proclivity to alcoholism, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing.
For "Abrahamics" (as you call us), the Fall (when sin starts) distorts everything. People are born with inclinations directly contrary to God – including me. There are things in my life which are contrary to God's will. The Bible equally calls out many of my "born that way" desires.
As a Christian, I need Jesus to die for me just as much as any of my neighbors. But being "born that way" is not an excuse for doing what I do.
@Russ – "An alcoholic was born with a proclivity to alcoholism, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing."
Not true, dude. Being an alcoholic is AWESOME. But seriously...being gay isn't a disease, so comparing it to one doesn't really work. It's not an abnormailty that could potentially destroy you. Go ahead and say, "A left handed person was born with a proclivity to being left handed, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing."
@F.P.: but now you've entered the bigger discussion. Who decides what's wrong?
Christians admit that the cross means we need God to fix us. All of our sins are not ok. Hom_os_exuality is just one among many that people have, all of which show us how much we need Jesus.
If you're not a Christian, then at least see the disconnect this article represents in denying the very basis upon which it claims to stand.
When Jesus embraces sinners, the result is the cross. It calls us to change. Our sins are not ok, but he came to fix us.
Thank you for this piece. The media has long ignored the many Christians who accept LGBT people. The opposing side has loud voices but are diminishing in size.
Alot of people are saying the Bible is full of contradictions. I have not read it very much, but what are those contradictions (book and verse would be helpful)?
just a general contradiction – god destorys Sodom and the other city because of evils inside...yet vegas still stands! jesus said god was loving and compassionate, forgiving and full of love... yet he has supposedly told popes in the past to kill non believers!!!! just a few general contradictions for you.. sry i didn't use page numbers or passages today... i am very sick and therefore don't care as much – wicked cold, maybe the flu.
No one can show a contradiction in the BIBLE ITSELF. People just spout what they have heard and not what they know. The pope is not in the bible and neither is las vegas.
@Hippypoet
"he has supposedly told popes in the past to kill non believers!!!!"
That's not an example of biblical contradictions. The Catholics only read the parts of the bible they like. You could justify anything by doing that. I also want to point out that they also killed other believers, aka the Anabaptists and the Protestants.
hippypoet, Sorry that you are so sick. That's rotten. Take good care of yourself, and I hope that you are feeling better real soon.
What made sodom and Gomorrah evil? What makes vegas evil? Where does this measure come from?
II Kings 2:11 “Then Elijah went up to heaven in a strong wind.”
John 3:13 "No one has ever gone into heaven except the One who came from heaven. He is the Son of Man.”
if god destoryed sodom for the reason it says in the bible then why is vegas still there – that was my point – sry if i have to spell it out for you... and the pope is not in the bible and so is not a contridiction... right because again let me spell it out for you – the bible says thou shall not kill, then the pope tells his sheep to kill... Solomon killed, david killed, saul killed, even jesus killed – how you ask did jesus kill – did he eat fish? did he rub lambs blood on his door? are these not once living creatures? is not all life equal in gods eyes as he created all! but your right, i'm nuts!
@hippypoet
i"f god destoryed sodom for the reason it says in the bible then why is vegas still there"
Because this is the age of faith. If God wiped out Vegas, we wouldn't need faith anymore.
"and the pope is not in the bible and so is not a contridiction... right because again let me spell it out for you – the bible says thou shall not kill, then the pope tells his sheep to kill..."
That's not a grievance against Christianity, that's against Catholicism. The failure isn't in the bibe, it's in the fact that the pope's probably barely read it.
"Solomon killed, david killed, saul killed,"
They fell short of the glory of Christ. They made mistakes. The bible says everyone will do that. It would have been more of a contradiction if they had been perfect.
"even jesus killed – how you ask did jesus kill – did he eat fish? did he rub lambs blood on his door? are these not once living creatures? is not all life equal in gods eyes as he created all! but your right, i'm nuts!"
Thou shalt not kill only refers to other humans. If it referred to all living things we'd have to starve ourselves. Aren't plants alive too? Well... I suppose we could eat dirt, but... I'm not sure where to go with this... Anyway, the point is: God doesn't side with PETA.
The greatest disservice that Christians have done is open their mouth spewing views that are not in the bible, maybe taught in the church but not in the bible. Really, is it loving and christ like to call someone a name? You can't expect non believers to act like believers. Be a light, don't put it out. Most of the killing in the bible was done in war. God killed people because he is God. He gives and takes away. Jesus killing a fish is ok because in Genesis he says that men are over all other creation and it is for their nourishment. The smearing of blood is old testament before Jesus was born. The thou shall not kill is talking about murder. Vegas (and everywhere else's destruction is coming) Jesus died for our sins so we aren't punished yet. Why would a loving God send someone to hell? He gives them the freedom to choose and opportunity to accept him and that is why Vegas still stands.
Just google "bible contradictions" you'll get plenty with chapter and verse
@observer Elijah didn't ascend, he was carried by a strong wind.
"@observer Elijah didn't ascend, he was carried by a strong wind."
He farted his way to heaven?
Thoughts,
"@observer Elijah didn't ascend, he was carried by a strong wind."
Have you contacted the biblical scholars and publishers to correct the error that you were able to detect?
@derp i don't know, read it and find out
1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28
14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
Deut 12:30,31
19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
James 1:13
20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
Gen 6:5,7
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
Gen 8:21
@observer nope, i found the error in your comment not the bible so, i thought i'd let you know.
Thoughts,
"@observer nope, i found the error in your comment not the bible so, i thought i'd let you know."
My comment was two quotes DIRECTLY from the Bible. If there is an error, it is in the Bible. Are you trying to pretend that "went up to heaven" doesn't mean the same thing as "gone into heaven". Try again.
Here's a few : http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html
@bucky ball those aren't contradictions either. Study more than the internet.
@Thoughts
And black is white, and the moon is made of green cheese. 😈
@ RT6
"1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31"
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
When I purchase my first bike, I was satisfied of it but as years gone by it deteriorates, I repented, I'd rather have bought a ferrari.
"2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48"
It depends to whom you most prefer to believe, God or the prophet.
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells ALSO in darkness
In other words He would and could dwell in both.
I'll deal the rest of your bible quotes later.
Faulty Thoughts,
"In classical logic, a contradiction consists of a logical incompatibility between two or more propositions. It occurs when the propositions, taken together, yield two conclusions which form the logical, usually opposite inversions of each other. Illustrating a general tendency in applied logic, Aristotle’s law of noncontradiction states that “One cannot say of something that it is and that it is not in the same respect and at the same time.”
Obviously you wouldn't know a contradiction if one bit you on the a$$.
It is very sad when we accept sin as normal.
it is very sad when we accept stupidity and ignorance as a foundation to the catholic faith. burn in hell you bigot!
It is very sad when we accept normality and variety as sin.
so sad that this is even considered normal behavior today If they were born that way, therefore we have to accept them. Then we must accept the pedophiles who say "they were born that way" we must accept the rapist who say "they were born that way" we must accept the serial killer who say "they were born that way". IT MUST BE NATURAL RIGHT??? WE HAVE TO ACCEPT THEM TOO GOD MADE THEM THAT WAY???
Wake up people this is not normal and it is not a birth defect it is abnormal and is a sin!
A serial killer murders people. A rapist also harms people. What harm does a gay person do?
I do not know of any harm. That is not the point, if abnormal behavior is acceptable because they were born that way then we will soon have to accept ALL abnormal behavior because they were born that way. It is not their fault.
No, we do not have to accept behavior that affects other people negatively, but relationships between gays does not do that. Plus people are not born as murderers. There may be people with psychological problems, but those can be treated.
@hippypoet, calling sin, sin, does not make one a bigot. Please buy a dictionary. If you can not afford one, there is a free dictionary online.
People are not born as murders? but they are born gay? Ask any Ph.D. who has interviewed any serial killer or serial rapist, THEY WERE UNABLE TO CONTROL THEMSELVES and EVERYONE OF THEM says they were born that way.
J.W wrote on Wednesday, October 26, 2011 at 12:21 pm, stating, "A serial killer murders people. A rapist also harms people. What harm does a gay person do?"
Harm you ask? By a gay person?
It's a 'no-brainer' but then where is one's brain when contemplating social arrogence?
'That is not the point, if abnormal behavior is acceptable"
Yo moron – the experts in psychology disagree with you, being gay is normal. That's 154,000 experts just here in American or did you not do your homework....LOL!
you are very a proud person... burn in hell buddy 🙂
@Seriously? Despite what doctors say, I can look at female parts and I can look at male parts and I know what is normal and what is abnormal if you have problems with that than you need more help than anyone here.
OK god then why don't you explain it to me if you think I am wrong.
hippy, have you lost your book of come backs and have to resort to repeating meaningless words?
"Despite what doctors say, I can look at female parts and I can look at male parts and I know what is normal and what is abnormal if you have problems with that than you need more help than anyone here."
It's found through out nature moron and YES the experts through out the world disagree with you. Being gay is a normal part of human sexuality, it's not a mental disorder...etc...etc.... You'll do anything to justify your prejudice view even though it's not based on facts.
god,
You didn't answer J.W.'s question. You didn't really say anything. Try again.
i beg to differ... i have not lost any book of come backs... i just see you for the proud person you are. which will lead to hell in your belief... so enjoy it while it lasts, being proud i mean. And to not care what doctors say is kinda sad unless you deem yourself smarter then them.... again pride showing its ugly head again...enjoy those flames!
Murderers, rapists and pedophiles do harm to others becuase their victims don't or can't give informed consent.
Gay adults in a consenting relationship harm NOBODY.
Sin lies only is harming other unnecessarily – all other sin is invented nonsense.
It's NOT abnormal. In fac t it is VERY normal. The fact that you are so ignorant of human behavior that you think it is "abnormal" is the sad thing. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090616122106.htm
@rsandifer: “I do not know of any harm. That is not the point, if abnormal behavior is acceptable because they were born that way then we will soon have to accept ALL abnormal behavior because they were born that way. It is not their fault” Black people are black because they were born that way. Until recently they were unacceptable in any white society because they were black even though being black caused no harm. Should we make being black unacceptable again because if we accept black because they were born that way we will have to accept everything abnormal?
"Despite what doctors say, I can look at female parts and I can look at male parts and I know what is normal and what is abnormal."
Damn, you must have seen a lot of parts. And plenty of them can be abnormal. I'm kind of worried about you and all your part-looking. And no, calling something a sin is not bigotry – what you're missing is that deciding to believe something is a sin because you've been told it is, and then taking it on yourself to point out to people who don't agree with you that they're sinful, and abnormal? THAT's where the problem is. Everybody gets that you think it's a sin. Good. Now, feel free not to be gay, or hang around gay people. I think the gay people will thank you. Let God take care of it, and leave people alone to live their lives.
rsandifer, you should do the smarter Christians a favor and shut up now. All you're doing is proving the point the opposite side is making. You're an idiot.
Romans 1:20-28 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; "he's a man that he should not lie or the son of God that he should not repent"
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Romans (12:20) also says “If your enemies are hungry, feed them. If they are thirsty, give them something to drink.”
Do you believe and practice EVERYTHING that Romans says? Or do you just pick and choose?
"And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things."
Yup they were worshiping a pagan god using sex which means it has nothing to do with what we now know and understand about gay people. As long as the gay person is a saved christian that text does not apply to them. DUH!
Lil'Jimmy: Mommy, I love my buddy Pete, why can't we get married?
Mom: Because you'll burn in eternal hellfire, dear.
Lil'Jimmy: But what about the Priest that keeps "blessing" my special place?
Mom: Um... you see... well....LOOK A LGBT COUPLE, KILL THEM WITH FIRE!!!
@lunchbreaker good point. The point that I was trying to make is that many posters have called christians hypocrites on this thread while defending LGBT saying that we should be accepting etc. while discounting christian posts. Screaming equal rights while telling someone to shut up. If they are going to defend equal rights they shouldn't be exclusive themselves.
Young boys who are "molested" are done so by gay men who are members of the family or friends of the family 99% of the time KNOW-THE-FACTS !!
And young girls are abused by straight men. What is your point?
@jamesHale ????? what did that have to do with my comment? Know your context...
James Hale,
And probably 99% of the time young girls are r@ped by hetero guys.
What was your point?
James, I know thinking thoughts like that makes you feel funny in your no-no place, but it's time for you to get off the 'net now.
i'm 19yrs old and bi no one know's if i get 2 the point that i sleep with a man that's my decision k:) i all ways liked guys ever since i could remember nd it's not a choice 2 bi its my nature its wat turns me on and im now starting 2 accept myself nd just like its in the bible dont judge its not ur job and god says not 2 so follow his rules peace and love 2 all the haters cause obviesly ur not getting enough:):):):)
Today is a day just like any other. People bantering away. The aloneness of self does ever magnify one's desires to be part of something, whatever the case may be. Togetherness is but a falsehood when it is boiled down to brass tacks. No matter how hard one tries, the sensual aloneness is an everness and should not be denied lest one likes to be disillusioned.
"And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross." (Colossians 2:15) Thank you Jesus for saving me from sin, death, and a life without meaning. To you, dear Father, and to you Lord Jesus, I offer my life as my gift of thanks and praise, Amen. Jesus died to save those who believe He died, rose, and is at the right hand of the Father. There is no other way to God, except Jesus. Repentance of sins, and turning from the sins is what saves us from hell, which is completely void of God forever. Being born again is not of the flesh, but a spiritual thing that happens when the Holy Spirit comes into your heart. The bible is very clear about sin, and no one will enter the Kingdom of Heaven by believing they can continue to live a lifestyle that is not pleasing to God.
Dessert Rosie,,, "The bible is very clear about sin, and no one will enter the Kingdom of Heaven by believing they can continue to live a lifestyle that is not pleasing to God."
Sin comes from a reprobate mind and such a mind declares all mannerisms of social unholiness. Only as the self does seek the Kingdoms of the Gods and finds the whereabouts can one find true devotional austerities. The Gods and their mates need our bodies to be the buildings and temples from which to live upon and within.
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is inside/within you.
1Cr 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, [ye are] God's building.
Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
god,
If you actually cared about sins, you'd be attacking the FAR FAR GREATER number of Christians who commit adultery by remarrying. Just pick and choose. Here's your chance now to trash the greater number of sinning Christians, which is a much greater problem numerically.
It's sad to see that this is even an issue in our churches today. If you knew the Bible as you claim to do, the you'd realize that the Bible does call for us to love sinners, but it never tells us to support them! Paul wrote in Romans 6:1-What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? We love the sinner, not the sin! The problem with a lot of this acceptance plea is that most people who are gay, lesbian, or transgender call for the church to accept the sin too. To imply that the Bible says anything about accepting sin, is an abomination. False teaching like this will and has been the cause of the downward spiral of the church. People accept the gay lifestyle because they don't know the scriptures. I've known many gay people in my lifetime and have never treated any one of them with disrespect; however, I make it known to each one of them that their lifestyle is not different than a thief, or a murderer. Don't get me wrong, I know we've all sinned and fall short of the glory of God and so I do not even try to toot my own horn either. But the things that I did before I got saved, I do not try to convince the church that they are right today! The underlying issue is that these are attempts of the enemy to weaken the power and the strength of the people of God. If we allow this or any other false teaching, we are selling our birthright and allowing a thief to steal our joy.
Matthew 7:3-5
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Well, you have a right to that view and a church that supports it. I, for one, will go to a church that recognizes the value of equality and love.
For the both of you, I do not judge anyone. The Bible is the basis that I use to determine what's right or wrong. If your church is a legitimate church then you should be getting the same type of teaching. That's the wonderful thing about God; He doesn't change. He hates sin in the Old Testament and hates it in the New Testament. He does not tolerate sin, so why should we? We may commit sin, but we should never walk in sin and that is two different things. What you are advocating is to accept the sin, which is wrong and not of God.
@observer they are in there but those aren't in the commandments of God. You see, the comment I responded to started out to follow Jesus.... Jesus wasn't in the old testament (physically) he came and changed all of that!
Thoughts,
So please explain how Jesus got it changed so that we no longer have to kill people working on the Sabbath and can ignor that, but we still need to trash gays and can't ignor that.
@ observer you said/asked:
"So please explain how Jesus got it changed so that we no longer have to kill people working on the Sabbath"
It's because the killing of people working on sabbath is not the will of God but the of the other characters in the old testament such as Aaron Jethro and others. God has only commanded to keep the sabbath day holy.
"but we still need to trash gays and can't ignor that."
There's nowhere in the bible that trashes gays.
People (Believers or not) tend to trash others (gays or not).
@observer you keep putting words in my mouth. I haven't bashed LGBT nor have I disclosed my orientation and you keep asking me why i think it's ok to bash them....
Christian or Atheist, could it be that its all due to economics; gays have more expendible income. Churches just aren't bringing in the money. Why not tap a new source...one they should have alway embraced, even before now. Hmmmm.
@dg i see what your saying. I don't live up to my standards either. God created us to live up to his standards but we couldn't handle it and gave into temptation. From then on, he had to deal with our rebellion and then he sent his son to turn the law on it's head and be the sacrifice and so now we are forgiving for not living up to God's standards. It's not about being perfect but serving a perfect God. Religion says do theses things, salvation says something has been done for you.
@ Bearer of bad news you said:
"As soon as people stop using the term "sin," we can have a civilized conversation."
AND
"Here is the problem. The bible is wrong. There is absolutely no getting around this. If you read it as it is written, then it contradicts itself and therefore voids itself. This means that "sin" is just a made up word used to control others."
It's not the bible neither nor religion was the one creating or defining the word "sin". You might want to make an appeal to Webster's, Britanica, Encarta, Thesaurus et'al.
If you want to say that murder, ra.pe, stealing, etc. is not a "SIN", what d'yo call it then? FUN?
Wow..I mean WOW!!!!! I would rather let my 3 year-old boy to be acquainted with filthy LGBT,........ pedophile ra.pist, psychopath killer and rabid dogs than to talk to a cute stranger like you
Sin lies only in harming other unnecessarily.
All other "sin" is invented nonsense.
"All other "sin" is invented nonsense."
That maybe right.
"This means that "sin" is just a made up word used to control others."
It's absolutely CRAZY!