October 25th, 2011
12:09 PM ET
My Take: Why Christians are embracing their LGBT neighbors
Editor’s note: Ross Murray is director of religion, faith and values at GLAAD, the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation.
By Ross Murray, Special to CNN
America is embracing its lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender citizens. Don’t believe me? Just look at the progress being made in faith communities.
The Christian church was once considered the final holdout for those who oppose equality for LGBT people. Staunch believers could gather in worship with people who thought just like them to hear sermons affirming the anti-LGBT beliefs they held in common.
For those of us who identify as LGBT, church was a place of fear and secrets. We had to figure out how to hide ourselves or how to find a more welcoming community.
But that is changing.
Although there is still a variety of scriptural interpretations, an increasing number of Christians are reading scripture and understanding that God’s design for the world includes LGBT people. It follows, good Christians believe, that if God made them, then I am called to love and support them.
Whole Christian denominations have accepted and embraced the reality of LGBT believers within their ranks and in their leadership. Lutherans, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, the United Church of Christ and Unitarians have formally accepted LGBT people within their denominations.
Even within denominations and faith groups whose policies don’t fully welcome LGBT people, there are growing numbers of people who have learned to love and accept their lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender brothers and sisters.
The Public Religion Research Institute found this year that as many as 71% of Catholics in America support lesbian and gay people, even up to the point of civil marriage, despite the Roman Catholic hierarchy telling them otherwise.
Of course, there still are Christian groups who work actively against equal protections for LGBT people and their families.
Indeed, as more Americans get to know and love their LGBT neighbors, the messages and vocal misinformation of anti-gay activists become even more shrill.
And yet more and more Christians are now living out the message of 1 John 4:18, “There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear.”
How did this happen? More Christians now know someone who is LGBT. They probably even know someone from their church. There are countless faithful Christians who identify as LGBT.
These are folks who have found their faith in God to be stronger than the opposition of vocal anti-gay activists.
These LGBT Christians have shared their lives and their stories that build up love and break down fear, leading to tangible progress, especially with young people.
According to the Public Religion Research Institute, there is at least a 20-point gap between those ages 18 to 29 and those ages 65 and older on every public policy measure in the survey concerning equality for gay and lesbian people, with younger Americans gravitating toward equality.
Even Christian-identified young people increasingly support protections for lesbian and gay people, the same survey found.
Those who oppose equality can call it what they like, but the reality is that we are living in a society that has learned how to value LGBT people as they would others.
That attitude doesn’t rely on fear or lies, but on caring relationships and trust. It lives out the apostle Paul’s wish for the Corinthians that someday we will know fully, even as we are fully known. It is a biblically informed reality that is helping to make the world a better place.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Ross Murray.
About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.
God made all thing! Adam and Eve, Adam and Steve, Eve and Ava, so did he make all! And all he made was good and very good!
Christians embrace LGBT folks, muslims kill them. Who said islam is peaceful and tolerant?
how is this about islam?
just an opportunity to take a dig?
grow the f up
Sickening... Just sickening.
i suppose to bigots, less people embracing their bigotry is sick
We have not penetrated the Seventh heaven nor got closer to that to state that God does not exist...! God (Allah) is the creator of all creations in the universe;
And your god is one God. There is no deity [worthy of worship] except Him, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful. 2:163
Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and earth, and the alternation of the night and the day, and the [great] ships which sail through the sea with that which benefits people, and what Allah has sent down from the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and dispersing therein every [kind of] moving creature, and [His] directing of the winds and the clouds controlled between the heaven and the earth are signs for a people who use reason. 2:164
It is Allah who has created seven heavens and of the earth, the like of them. [His] command descends among them so you may know that Allah is over all things competent and that Allah has encompassed all things in knowledge. 65:12
Our Lord, indeed we have heard a caller calling to faith, [saying], 'Believe in your Lord,' and we have believed. Our Lord, so forgive us our sins and remove from us our misdeeds and cause us to die with the righteous. 3:193
Our Lord, and grant us what You promised us through Your messengers and do not disgrace us on the Day of Resurrection. Indeed, You do not fail in [Your] promise." 3:194
And Noah said, "My Lord, do not leave upon the earth from among the disbelievers an inhabitant. 71:26
Indeed, if You leave them, they will mislead Your servants and not beget except [every] wicked one and [confirmed] disbeliever. 71:27
My Lord, forgive me and my parents and whoever enters my house a believer and the believing men and believing women. And do not increase the wrongdoers except in destruction." 71:28
Muneef, Muneef, Muneef,
Please put the following PowerPoint slide on the doors of your mosque:
Saving Muslims is quite easy!!! (developed by yours truly based on the studies of Armstrong, Rushdie, Hirsi Ali, Richardson and Bayhaqi)
The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:
( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)
Are you ready?
Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.
The First Five of the 77 Branches:
"1. Belief in Allah"
aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your cleansing neurons.
"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."
Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".
"3. To believe in the existence of angels."
A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.
"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."
Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.
Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.
Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.
"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him)
Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.
Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!
Unfortunately, there are not many Muslim commentators/readers on this blog so the "two-minute" cure is not getting to those who need it. If you have a Muslim friend, send him a copy and help save the world.
Analogous steps are available at your request for deprogramming the myths of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Paganism..
No not at the Mosque doors...rather be it where you hide that butterfly tattoo...! 😉
Baby Jesus gives all-girl pron the "Messiah Stamp-of-Approval" lol!
I'm gay but I don't hate Christians. I have to say that most are accepting. It's just the ones who aren't are very vocal about it sadly. The American Family Association is one organization I will never see as doing anything possibly good. Its one organization that gives Christians a bad name.
Why are so many getting sidetracked to all the legal aspects of a person's relationship – – That is Not what the article is about. The article is about the Religious aspect.. Church & State are supposed to be separate (although in practice it isn't entirely) But at any rate, If you don't want to adhere to the rules, don't play the game. The Bible (Disregard what it says on the subject in the OT. That was part of the Law Covenant and doesn't/never has applied to anyone who wasn't an Israelite) In the NT, and it does apply to anyone who wants to be a Christian, @ Romans 1:26-27 & 32 is very plain & explicit as to what is acceptable for a Christian. If you're not a Christian, don't worry about it. Apparently those churches aren't Christian, because they don't worry about it.
"Romans 1:26-27 & 32 is very plain & explicit as to what is acceptable for a Christian."
Now be a good christian and go back a bit, put it into complete context.
"Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. "
Which means as long as a gay christian isn't worshiping a pagan god while having sex they're covered too. 😉
Romans (12:20) also says “If your enemies are hungry, feed them. If they are thirsty, give them something to drink.”
Do you believe and practice EVERYTHING that Romans says or do you just PICK and CHOOSE what you like and ignor the rest?
Speaking of IGNORANCE, you might do a little an-lyzing before making juvenile insults when it turns out you didn't know what you were talking about.
Is reading comprehension a major problem for you? "They shall surely be put to death”. You know, it's the inspired word of God.
Oh, I see...you really want to make IGNORANCE advertiser a career.
"They shall surely be put to death”.
Who the gays?
I have a son who is a (confirmed) gay at the early age of 9 and I'm sure that he neither had sleep nor had a relationship with his kind. The million dollar question is...
Is he covered by Leviticus 20:13?
And one more thing, I have a neighbor who has a killer smile but never killed somebody. Are we going to put him in lethal injection?
There you have it buddy. I hope you do well with your new found career as IGNORANCE advertiser.
There you have it buddy
Have a blissful experience.....with it. LOL!
How is a 9 year old confirmed gay?
Are you really the father of a gay son or did you just make that up for an example? If you REALLY are the father and are trying to support him, you are attacking the wrong person. If you read over my numerous comments, you'll see that my bringing up Leviticus 20:13 was not in support of it, but rather to show how hypocritical and ignorant Bible-supporters can be.
"How is a 9 year old confirmed gay?"
Let me guess about you, fred. Your s-xual preference hasn't changed your whole life. You never had a point in your life where you made a decision between being straight or gay. You have always felt the same. Right?
Let me guess again. You KNOW that those same statements couldn't possibly be said by someone else if they happened to be gay. Right?
In Leviticus 20:9,10,11,12,14,15,16 $exually immoral people are also put to death. Why did you pick lucky #13 and now want to beat us over the head with that one?
Are you ok with the others or just not interested.................oops
Please anwer my questions.
"In Leviticus 20:9,10,11,12,14,15,16 $exually immoral people are also put to death. Why did you pick lucky #13 and now want to beat us over the head with that one?
Are you ok with the others or just not interested.................oops"
Have you EVER seen Christians quote those passages when it comes to s-xual relations? Of course not. They pull out quotes to put gays down. It's Christians that aren't interested in them. Just like they don't quote the Golden Rule when trashing gays.
This story may answer your question about the 9-year-old, fred, and will help you understand how people are born gay.
Normally, you are right on! This time you got one wrong when you said:
"Let me guess about you, fred. Your s-xual preference hasn't changed your whole life. You never had a point in your life where you made a decision between being straight or gay. You have always felt the same. Right?
Let me guess again. You KNOW that those same statements couldn't possibly be said by someone else if they happened to be gay. Right?
Thanks, I normally don't watch 60 min. so I would have missed this. Yes, there is an orientation but, I am amazed at the choices people do end up making given their orientation.
Assuming that I got the second statement wrong, do you feel that gays would lie when they make the same statements or do you feel that they just don't know better? Or what?
I think we are on two different conversations. Sorry.
Fred, there are good people and bad people. Orientation has nothing to do with it. That's the problem with the bible. It fundamentally says "These people are different and you must treat them badly." It didn't matter to the authors of the bible that this difference wasn't a choice. They were simply targeting a minority. I find nothing virtuous about this sort of codified prejudice.
No, the Bible does not pic on gays misguided people do. It is probably one of the least mentioned topics in the Bible. Jesus never even brings it up so it is completly a non issue with Him. Jesus took several occassions to blast the religeous leaders and followers for judging others, it was actually one of his main points.
I have not experienced anyone with a gay orientation change their orientation. I have had friends that abstain for extended periods of time or talk about a new lifestyle, but, no change in orientation.
I saw the sign of it when he started to walk and to his choice of toys a friends. And when we asked him what would he want as gift on his 9th birthday, he proudly and happily show us a picture....in a catalogue and....it's a beautiful velvet gown.
We were trying our best to change his preferences in the best that we could. And although it doesn't work that well and our best seemed to be not enough
He was maybe born that way but we could still give our best and let God do the rest. However, we know the fact that in the end of the day (when he reached the age of accountability) he still the one to freely choose what his life would be and nobody could take away such right from him.
And I know that God would all judge us NOT by who or what we are but by what we do.
fred, it is absolutely picking on a minority. I agree that Jesus never said anything about gays. He also never forbade women to preach. However, these things were mentioned elsewhere in the bible and christians just picked them up and ran with it.
It's easy to see what the priorities are for the christians who post here. As I write this, there are 2337 responses on this particular thread. At the same time, there are 347 responses on the thread about the child who was murdered by 'god-fearing' parents, and most of the posts from christians say something to the effect that 'they aren't real christians,' the standard response to any action that casts christianity in negative light. The sad thing is, these murderers were simply following the words in the bible.
Can you see what is wrong here? People who do no harm are singled out for discrimination, based on your bible. Murderers who act in the name of that same bible are ignored. I guess it's easier to hate than to accept the flaws of your book.
"No, the Bible does not pic on gays misguided people do."
Fred, i suggest you reread your bible.
History repeats itself and the Bible is clear evidence of that. Same old battles. The chosen people of God time after time reject God and do terrible things to one another. As far back as I recall "gods" were called upon for strength and victory. Even Hiltler played up God and today muslims still call on a 'god' that was created in 650 AD and do terrible things in his name. I do not know if it is a fault in individuals or leaders that stir a tribal call but the Bible says it is wrong to hate and kill.
Even Obama rallies the old line that stirs our hearts of greed when he types the rich evil ones as as the cause of all our woes. Obama and the republicans divide this nation by fanning the flames of abortion and gays. Hundreds of millions of dollars a year are pumped into fanning the flames of hate for over 40 years now. Not because of the Bible but because of greedy power hungry people.
I hope you are not a politician because they really get under my skin.
casting non democrats as minority hating rich white old men. This has gone on since 1960. If I look back beyond that there was some other groups that were rallying points.
The Bible is not the source it is being used and blamed my man to bring about what man wants. In our first war the blue coats and the red coats claimed God as their source and the Bible that makes their cause right. Our civil war had the same Bible call on both sides of their respective causes.
It has been 51 years that our party leadership has fanned the flames of hate in one susceptable mind after another. I don't know how old you are but for most people our entire lives have been filled with this nonsense. Just like the muslims stir up over 1 billions muslims to hate the west one half of one percent of those stirred rise up and kill innocent lives. 180 million Christians stirred up for 50 years over gays and abortion in the U.S. you are going to have 1.8 million rise to the top (or bottom) that are chomping at the bit. It is NOT the Bible it is man abusing the Bible for his own purpose.
I had a childhood friend who I had to constantly defend because he was very "girlish". I became like his big brother. He had a great deal of struggle in his life. On the other hand we have a hand full of men at our church with similar obvious mannerisms that are every bit as well adjusted if not more so than I am. God does not condemn anyone for the gifts He himself put in their being or what the world might consider lacking in someone. If you are not being built up in Gods house it is not Gods house.
I come from an abused background and over compensate by keeping a watchful eye out for bullies. They come in all shapes and sizes as well as Christian and non Christian gay and straight.
If the law and state grant it, then WHY NOT? But if they don't and you would insist, you're absolutely not advocating equal rights but instead demanding an extra for caprice.
Stop whining ignorant ones.
Equal rights are coming. The days of bigotry and ignorance are being wiped out by education.
Who are you talking about? I can't tell if you're mad at christians or gays. The rights of both are protected by the consti.tution.
The passage in Leviticus says a man should not lie with a man as one lies with a woman. However it does not speak against women lying with women. Being a lesbian is acceptable according to the Bible.
It's a fact that attractive girls getting it on is very popular with hetero males. It's just part of the hypocrisy from h0mophobes.
What about Romans 1:26-27. That is New Testament and talk about lesbians.....
– Romans 1:26-27 “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural
function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the
woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in
their own persons the due penalty of their error.”
It doesn't describe what "unnatural functions" are for women, but it did specify those for men. It could have referred to women pleasuring themselves. Still no proof that lesbians were to be condemned like gay men were.
I suggested a class in your area did you sign up?
It would be great because you need to look out for the canned replies on this site that come direct from the Dawkins playbook
"@Observe. Where in the OT you can find God said to kill gays?.
Know what? Advertising ignorance is quite a tedious job and you're giving your fingers too much work doing it on this board. It's time to give them a little rest. They might sue you for exploitation and abuse, especially the middle (finger) one. It's giving you a sign, can't you see it?"
Speaking of advertizing IGNORANCE, how is your business doing?
Leviticus 20:13 “If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death.”
Are you sure the verse you quoted would substiantiate your claim of "God said to kill gays"? I give you time to think it THOROUGHLY. Before we will discuss the IGNORANCE advertising business a lil further.
And here's a hint: Don't just observe, try to an.alyze.
One more time- skip if you have seen it before-
"Abrahamics" believe that their god created all of us and of course that includes the g-ay members of the human race. Also, those who have studied ho-mo-se-xuality have determined that there is no choice involved therefore ga-ys are ga-y because god made them that way.
o The Royal College of Psy-chiatrists stated in 2007:
“ Despite almost a century of psy-choanalytic and psy-chological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heteros-exual or hom-ose-xual orientation. It would appear that s-exual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of ge-netic factors and the early ut-erine environment. Se-xual orientation is therefore not a choice. "
"Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab state in the abstract of their 2010 study, "The fe-tal brain develops during the intraut-erine period in the male direction through a direct action of tes-tosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hor-mone surge. In this way, our gender identi-ty (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and s-exual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender ident–ity or s-exual orientation."[8
Of course, those gays who belong to Abrahamic religions abide by the rules of no adu-ltery or for-nication allowed.
"Guess you missed the Old Testament where the SAME God said to kill gays. It was the same God, wasn't it?"
Guess you missed Colossians 2:8-15, as well as all of the new testament.
Guess you missed the Old Testament where the SAME God said to kill gays. It was the same God, wasn't it?
Was it the SAME God? Yes or no? Since Moses LONG before Jesus, God's command to kill gays was in effect for a LONG time.
Try reading the Bible sometime.
Why people still cling to a 2,000+ year old piece of hallucinogenic fiction–that can't and hasn't been *proven* as fact–is beyond me.
Author is obviously biased as are most articles on this site.
It's interesting that all of those who want so desperately to justify g-ay's life stiles are trying to make it an human rights issue. It is NOT a human rights issue. You can never compare the injustice done to people of different races as well as women, who were (and still are) always opressed by those who had in their hands the power over them, and used it to exploit and oppress them. But here is NOT the issue of oppression!... It's the issue of right and wrong, moral and immoral....something that every honest person knows and is eble to discern...
H-uality is a perversion of what is normal and natural, and therefore is a moral issue. Even the barbarians have an understanding of it, and KNOW it's wrong. Therefore it is NOT the same status like an human rights issues, nor can it ever have. Yes, ho-m0-se-xual poerson has and should have al the rights as every other human beings, and should be treated fairly and without discrimination. But to demand the rights for h-uality to be elevated to the status a of what is normal, is absurd, and can never be, and would be a sure path to corrupt the civilization and society. There are laws, written and unwritten, that every human being knows, and all cultured societies acknowledge as essential to preserve them for their citizens and their posterity. And they know that to alter those laws, would mean anarchy, chaos and self destruction.
Saying all that, I don't think more needs to be said, because it's really self-explanatory.
As for the Christianity today, more and more embracing their LGBT neighbors... For those who are embracing them to tell them the Gospel of salvation in Christ our Lord, to give them hope and deliverance from their bondages- that is EXACTLY what Christ Jesus did when He went to eat in the company with sinners of all kind. He has seen their need, an condition they were in, and gave them hope. BUT NON E OF THME EVER WENT AWAY UNCHANGED (unless they rejected Christ's offer) That is what God does...HE CHANGES PEOPLE"S LIVES.
The problem is with those other kind, who don't accept Christ's offer. They want to be included and accepted WITHOUT repentance, still holding to their sin. And Christians who tell them that God does not require them to repent of their sins, including h-xual life stile which is perversion of God's intent and His design, and therefore a great offence in the site of God...they are the FALSE SHEPHERDS, and are lying to them! They themselves are NOT of God and Jesus Christ is NOT their Savior. They have made God a liar, and are in danger of the sin of blasphemy, because they have refused the testimony of the Holy Spirit of God who testifies of true Christ, and instead making Christ to be in the image of themselves, according what THEY are.... There is no salvation nor redemption for those who invent false Christ(s) And that's the bottom line!
"It is NOT a human rights issue."
Yo moron they don't have the same rights as married people in their partnerships. DUH!
Right to benefits while married:
employment assistance and transitional services for spouses of members being separated from military service; continued commissary privileges
per diem payment to spouse for federal civil service employees when relocating
Indian Health Service care for spouses of Native Americans (in some circumstances)
sponsor husband/wife for immigration benefits
Larger benefits under some programs if married, including:
Supplemental Security Income
disability payments for federal employees
property tax exemption for homes of totally disabled veterans
income tax deductions, credits, rates exemption, and estimates
wages of an employee working for one's spouse are exempt from federal unemployment tax
Joint and family-related rights:
joint filing of bankruptcy permitted
joint parenting rights, such as access to children's school records
family visitation rights for the spouse and non-biological children, such as to visit a spouse in a hospital or prison
next-of-kin status for emergency medical decisions or filing wrongful death claims
custodial rights to children, shared property, child support, and alimony after divorce
domestic violence intervention
access to "family only" services, such as reduced rate memberships to clubs & organizations or residency in certain neighborhoods
Preferential hiring for spouses of veterans in government jobs
Tax-free transfer of property between spouses (including on death) and exemption from "due-on-sale" clauses.
Special consideration to spouses of citizens and resident aliens
Threats against spouses of various federal employees is a federal crime
Right to continue living on land purchased from spouse by National Park Service when easement granted to spouse
Court notice of probate proceedings
Domestic violence protection orders
Existing homestead lease continuation of rights
Regulation of condominium sales to owner-occupants exemption
Funeral and bereavement leave
Joint adoption and foster care
Joint tax filing
Insurance licenses, coverage, eligibility, and benefits organization of mutual benefits society
Legal status with stepchildren
Making spousal medical decisions
Spousal non-resident tuition deferential waiver
Permission to make funeral arrangements for a deceased spouse, including burial or cremation
Right of survivorship of custodial trust
Right to change surname upon marriage
Right to enter into prenuptial agreement
Right to inheritance of property
Spousal privilege in court cases (the marital confidences privilege and the spousal testimonial privilege)
For those divorced or widowed, the right to many of ex- or late spouse's benefits, including:
Social Security pension
veteran's pensions, indemnity compensation for service-connected deaths, medical care, and nursing home care, right to burial in veterans' cemeteries, educational assistance, and housing
survivor benefits for federal employees
survivor benefits for spouses of longshoremen, harbor workers, railroad workers
additional benefits to spouses of coal miners who die of black lung disease
$100,000 to spouse of any public safety officer killed in the line of duty
continuation of employer-sponsored health benefits
renewal and termination rights to spouse's copyrights on death of spouse
continued water rights of spouse in some circumstances
payment of wages and workers compensation benefits after worker death
making, revoking, and objecting to post-mortem anatomical gifts
All rights a straight person enjoys. If you don't think they are being oppressed by the prejudice and hatred from people like you then you are an idiot! There are places that ask gays to leave, there are places that won't allow them to stay in their B& B's or hotels, there are people that target them and beat them up, etc.... etc...etc...
"H-uality is a perversion of what is normal and natural, and therefore is a moral issue. "
The experts in psychology disagree with you. The APA, AMA and the World Health organization have all stated being gay is a normal form of human sexuality, it's not a mental illness and conversion therapies don't work. You have to believe the trash you wrote to justify your prejudice and bigotry but thankfully the loving hearts of those that believe in equal rights will win this one.
"which is perversion of God's intent and His design,"
You would have thought your god then wouldn't have allowed animals to have gay relationships too if it wasn't part of his design, but since he does maybe you need to rethink your pathetic rant.
Your post reeks of darkness and hate, you are NOT a christian.
You are an idiot. First of all, it's NOT a "life stile", nor is it, (correctly), a lifestyle.
"interesting that all of those who want so desperately to justify g-ay's life stiles are trying to make it an human rights issue"
-No one is "desperate". They know injustice when they smell it, by ignoramuses, who insist on forcing their uninformed ideas of what is "natural" and "right" on others. (Did you know straight people engage in sodomy as much if not more than gay people?)
"It is NOT a human rights issue. You can never compare the injustice done to people of different races as well as women, who were (and still are) always opressed, (sp??) by those who had in their hands the power over them, and used it to exploit and oppress them.
-Compare to WHAT. The sentence hangs there, with NO comparison.
"But here is NOT the issue of oppression!... It's the issue of right and wrong, moral and immoral....something that every honest person knows and is eble, (sp??) to discern...
-It is, or is not what it is, no matter what you assert. You want to impose YOUR morality onto others, and there is FREEDOM OF RELIGION in this country. You are saying anyone who supports gay rights is DISHONEST. Bullshit. Arrogant much ?
"H-uality is a perversion of what is normal and natural, and therefore is a moral issue."
-It is NOT "abnormal", nor "unnatural". Take a biology course, and join the 21st Century. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090616122106.htm What "barbarians" think or do, is NOT what 21st Century people should base their actions on, or is it You think you want to put up "barbaric" behavior as the norm ?
"Therefore it is NOT the same status like an human rights issues, nor can it ever have."
-Your logic is so flawed it's a laugh and a half.
"Yes, ho-m0-se-xual poerson, (sp??) has and should have al, (sp??) the rights as every other human beings, and should be treated fairly and without discrimination. But to demand the rights for h-uality to be elevated to the status a of what is normal, is absurd, and can never be, and would be a sure path to corrupt the civilization and society.
-BS. At the end of the California Appeals Court case for Prop 8, the judge asked the plaintiff's attorney, "How exactly does same se'x marriage threaten traditional marriage?", and the attorney, after months of expert testimony, said, "I don't know". There is NO evidence that it corrupts ANYTHING, or makes ANYTHING worse. You know more than the experts in that case ? No one said they wanted them "elevated above" anything. They want EQUALITY, which YOU want to deny them.
"There are laws, written and unwritten, that every human being knows, and all cultured societies acknowledge as essential to preserve them for their citizens and their posterity. And they know that to alter those laws, would mean anarchy, chaos and self destruction."
-SO passing the anti-slavery laws was a threat to society. You are full of CRAP. the Declaration of Independence says "All men are created equal". Either they ARE, or they AREN'T.
Who told YOU that you speak for god ? How do you KNOW what it intends, or thinks ? You want to FORCE you religious views onto others. Who told YOU, you can decide who is a FALSE SHEPHERD ? 😈
The dark Prism consumes the light and releases none - like a black hole.
If there is a hell - Prism 1234 is living in it now. Pity.
I am sorry but YOUR "god" and YOUR religion do not determine what is right or wrong in anyone elses life but YOURS. So give me the HUMAN RIGHTS that I deserve and stay the hell out of MY life, if you do not like my ways.
For the record, die hard agnostic, DO NOT believe in the christian "god". My boyfriend is a die hard Christian though and I am supportive and open-minded.
Well, people, you can scream, ki-ck , and throw your temper tan-trums as well as insults at those who speak the truth to you, mocking God who created you and gave you life, and us who are not afraid nor inti-midated by your ravings, calling us all kinds of derogatory names... BUT , you'll still have to face Him and answer to Him, BECAUSE He is the one who gave you life, and YOU OWE HIM EVERYTHING. Your life is NOT YOUR OWN, you came into this world ON HIS TERMS, AND YOU'LL LEAVE ON HIS TERMS ALSO. But when you face Him you won't be able to duck behind consti-tution and yell for your rights.! And you can be sure that you won't miss that appointment... no human being ever will miss that one!
But I'm curious in this one thing...., how come that you, who are such intellectuals and so much above us "retards" allow yourself to stoop so low to degrade yourself , resorting even to profa-nities and insulting those whose posts you don't like?
I hardly ever see a Christian using derogatory words and having malicious a-tti-tudes the way show yourselves to be in YOUR posts...They portray who you really are, did you know that?!
PRISM - "I hardly ever see a Christian using derogatory words and having malicious a-tti-tudes the way show yourselves to be in YOUR posts...They portray who you really are, did you know that?!"
Oh no, you just call us pigs and devils, and say that you can't wait to sit and chuckle and chortle when we burn for eternity. What's that about portraying who you really are???!!!
"you just call us pigs and devils"
When did I say "you are pigs adn devils"?
"and (you) say that you can't wait to sit and chuckle and chortle when we burn for eternity"
Tell me, when did I say that?
Yet, I can find on ever page, not one, but number of DIRECT and PERSONAL deragoatory remarks directed toward Christian belivers!
That speaks for itself!
"Yet, I can find on ever page, not one, but number of DIRECT and PERSONAL deragoatory remarks directed toward Christian belivers!
That speaks for itself!"
The faults you see in other people are the faults you have within yourself. Or is it you see the speck of wood in other peoples eyes but you don't see the log in yours. Grow up, put down your prejudice and learn to love the way Christ instructed you too.
“But here is NOT the issue of oppression!...”
So what do you call “severe antigay prejudice that is reflected in the high rate of harassment and violence directed toward lesbian, gay, and bisexual individuals in American society. Numerous surveys indicate that verbal harassment and abuse are nearly universal experiences among lesbian, gay, and bisexual people. Also, discrimination against lesbian, gay, and bisexual people in employment and housing appears to remain widespread. “ ~APA
You do get you're part of the problem regarding this issue Prism.
I am not about to scour these blogs for instances of your nasty comments. I do remember that you have called people tongued serpents, pigs and swine (even accompanied by an "oink" at least once) and were happily ready to watch as they are tossed into hell. Besides that, I was also referring to the plural form of you - as in you people, or you believers.
Your death cult is dark and desp-icable, and totally without evidence, other than your fantasy bible.
"you have called people tongued serpents, pigs and swine (even accompanied by an "oink" at least once) and were happily ready to watch as they are tossed into hell"
You ar a bold faced liar, and you can quote me on this one, but you have no valid claims that you stated above!
It's your own twisted mind that reads into things the way you want to see them to justify your own mean spirited att-itude! ...You can also quote me on that one!
As for the others, what they say or do, that's not my responsibility, neither do I identify with them, unless I post and response that says so! Do you get that?!
"So does all that mean you are ok with gay people, or you want to burn them at the stake to please your god?"
I guess if I were to answer such a ignorant question, I would want to know how you came about that the Gospel of Jesus Christ found in the new testament suggest such possibility? What your doing is about as childish as if I associated Science to Frankinstein.
Guess you missed the Old Testament where the SAME God said to kill gays. It was the same God, wasn't it?
Where in the OT you can find God said to kill gays?.
Know what? Advertising ignorance is quite a tedious job and you're giving your fingers too much work doing it on this board. It's time to give them a little rest. They might sue you for exploitation and abuse, especially the middle (finger) one. It's giving you a sign, can't you see it?
Tom Tom said to rsandifer:
rsandifer, you should do the smarter Christians a favor and shut up now. All you're doing is proving the point the opposite side is making. You're an idiot.
I hate to but I would agree with you this time Tom Tom.
You're DAMN RIGHT! It takes an idiot to prove the point of (the opposite) your side.
Jesus walked among men and was blasted for eating with the sinners, yet in Him was found no sin.
Listen to your angels and fight your demons on this.
The Church is going in the wrong direction by embracing this lifestyle.
Yep. Keep things like they have been: support slavery, support discrimination against women, support discrimination against the handicapped, and use incest to populate the world. Why change?
Observer, you are mistaken. None of those are biblical beliefs.
"support slavery" Slavery was justified by reading the verses about the duties of a servant (or in the modern world, an employee) to his master(or employer). and ignoring the duties of the master to the servant.
" support discrimination against women" S-xism was created the same way: By stressing the duties of the wife and ignoring the duties of the husband.
"support discrimination against the handicapped" What? Where is this in the bible?
"and use incest to populate the world" Not exactly a command, it's just something that happened. God never told people to or not to, unless I find something I'll just assume he doesn't care instead of creating my own beliefs.
"Slavery was justified by reading the verses about the duties of a servant (or in the modern world, an employee) to his master(or employer). and ignoring the duties of the master to the servant."
LMAO – So does this mean we get to treat these employees like they did the slaves in bible? Don't forget to tremble and fear your master now. LOL!
"Observer, you are mistaken. None of those are biblical beliefs."
Slavery? Wrong. Women? Wrong. Handicapped? Wrong. Incest? Mostly wrong.
The Bible said how badly you could beat your slaves as long as you don't kill them.
The Bible says women shouldn't have authority over men.
The Bible says God doesn't want disfigured people in his church.
The Bible condemns incest, but God used it TWICE to populate the earth. "Do as I say, not as I do".
Please read the Bible next time so you'll know what you are commenting on.
Christians like to pretend that the slavery described in teh bible was really indentured servitude.
That the "slaves" were treated nicely and then set free after a period of time.
That was only the case for fellow cult members – the rest of the world was sub-human property.
"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
@clay: “Observer, you are mistaken. None of those are biblical beliefs.”
“Say to Aaron: ‘For the generations to come none of your descendants who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God. 18 No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or deformed; 19 no man with a crippled foot or hand, 20 or who is a hunchback or a dwarf, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles
- Leviticus 21:17-20
@clay: “Observer, you are mistaken. None of those are biblical beliefs.”
SLAVERY – you must not beat them to death
If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property. Exodus 21:20-21
@Hippypoet you said:
"that as in idea is taken from how the majority of believers treat the gay"
Do you think that's fair?
Will you say that Obama hates black coz majority of Americans still do? OR that America is a Christian nation just because majority of it's citizen are Christians? I bet you won't,...will you?
'A majority of America hates blacks" ??? Bless your foolish heart.
Do you need to pray more to know how many people killed nonsensically killed just because they are black?
May God Bless your full heart....as well as your empty cranium.
should be read: people nonsensically killed*
i am sorry i didn't get to this earlier... side tracked... your statement on mine using it as a pretext is completely out of context! if people dislike people, whatever, but what i said was that as believers they generally disagree with the gay community and claim that its a choice to be as they are. That is just wrong to do... and as believers in a so called loving compassionate religion they suck at what supposedly practice. or they just like the idea of being christians and find it hard to stand true to the beliefs held dear. i'm not completely sure yet. But what i can tell you is those that say its against god will do most anything to make them live in hell a.k.a. alone without love! and thats wrong. If god is about love then love is a general term for humans to love other humans...simple, no gender against gender sh!t !
A bible! a bible we don't need another bible...i am sick and tired hearing this old stuff over and over again!
Oh, I see gain a stalker here. You're so cute, wanna be my groupie?
HypoChristian rolls of the tounge much easier.
An empty tummy makes an empty cranium. Better take your lunch first.