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October 28th, 2011
03:55 PM ET

Study: Thinking of God can dampen motivation but help resist temptation

By Dan Merica, CNN

Washington (CNN) - It’s become an increasingly hot topic of debate between atheists and religious people: Is belief in God helpful or hurtful?

A study published Thursday by the American Psychological Association suggests that believing may be a little of both.

According to the study, simple reminders of God have both positive and negative effects on people’s motivation. The report, which focused primarily on students, found that religious reminders both diminish a person’s desire to complete personal goals and improve a person’s ability to resist temptation.

Researchers are calling the report,  "Divergent Effects of Activating Thoughts of God on Self-Regulation," the “the first empirical evidence” of its kind.

“Our lives are literally replete with reminders and symbols of God,” wrote researcher Aaron Kay of Duke University in an e-mail to CNN. “Our success at work, school, or even athletics depends on more than just skill. The beliefs we adopt – or are exposed to even if we don’t consciously adopt them – may impact how we pursue our goal.”

The study tracked 353 college students in six experiments that attempted to test how the idea of God can influence people’s motivations. Believing in God or any other spiritual power was not a requirement for the study.

In one experiment, researchers told the students the test they were taking would gauge their career success and then asked students whether they believed God had a hand in that success.

Each student was given a “warm-up” exercise in which they had to create sentences using words. Half were given test with religious words, while the other were given non-religious words.

The test had each student "form as many words as they could in five minutes, using any combination of specific letters,” reported the study. The number of words produced was taken as a gauge of motivation.

Of the students who believed in an involved God, the ones who participated the God-related word game fared worse than those who used non-religious word. There was, however, no difference among those who did not believe in an involved God.

Kay summed up the findings this way: Imagine two students, one believes her grade depends on how hard she works and the second believes that her grade is determined by whether the professor asked questions she knows.

According to Kay, the research suggests that someone who thinks part of their grade is out of their control would not study as hard as someone who believes they are in complete control.

“[This belief] can diminish a person’s perception that he or she – and he or she alone – has complete control over his or her outcomes,” wrote Kay. “From a motivation perspective, this is very important, since beliefs in personal control are key components of motivation.”

To test temptation, half of the students read a passage about God and half read a passage unrelated to God. “Participants who said eating healthy food was important to them ate fewer cookies after reading a short passage about God than those who read a passage unrelated to God,” reported the study.

“Basically what we found was that when people think about God, it seems to help them resist temptation,” said Grainee Fitzsimons, professor at Duke University. “It is the mindset that he is always watching and judging that motivates people to behave well.”

The findings were first published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.

- CNN Belief Blog

Filed under: Belief • Culture & Science • God

soundoff (335 Responses)
  1. Muneef

    Nothing dampen motivation other than those engaged in prophecies and predictions of the final day...

    October 28, 2011 at 8:45 pm |
  2. Muneef

    And who would be averse to the religion of Abraham except one who makes a fool of himself. And We had chosen him in this world, and indeed he, in the Hereafter, will be among the righteous. 2:130

    When his Lord said to him, "Submit", he said "I have submitted [in Islam] to the Lord of the worlds." 2:131

    And Abraham instructed his sons [to do the same] and [so did] Jacob, [saying], "O my sons, indeed Allah has chosen for you this religion, so do not die except while you are Muslims." 2:132

    Or were you witnesses when death approached Jacob, when he said to his sons, "What will you worship after me?" They said, "We will worship your God and the God of your fathers, Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac – one God. And we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."
    2:133

    That was a nation which has passed on. It will have [the consequence of] what it earned, and you will have what you have earned. And you will not be asked about what they used to do. 2:134

    They say, "Be Jews or Christians [so] you will be guided." Say, "Rather, [we follow] the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth, and he was not of the polytheists." 2:135

    Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." 2:136

    So if they believe in the same as you believe in, then they have been [rightly] guided; but if they turn away, they are only in dissension, and Allah will be sufficient for you against them. And He is the Hearing, the Knowing. 2:137

    [And say, "Ours is] the religion of Allah . And who is better than Allah in [ordaining] religion? And we are worshippers of Him." 2:138

    Say, [O Muhammad], "Do you argue with us about Allah while He is our Lord and your Lord? For us are our deeds, and for you are your deeds. And we are sincere [in deed and intention] to Him." 2:39

    Or do you say that Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants were Jews or Christians? Say, "Are you more knowing or is Allah ?" And who is more unjust than one who conceals a testimony he has from Allah ? And Allah is not unaware of what you do. 2:140

    That is a nation which has passed on. It will have [the consequence of] what it earned, and you will have what you have earned. And you will not be asked about what they used to do. 2:141

    http://quran.com/2
    -----

    Indeed, We sent down to you the Book for the people in truth. So whoever is guided – it is for [the benefit of] his soul; and whoever goes astray only goes astray to its detriment. And you are not a manager over them. 39:41

    Allah takes the souls at the time of their death, and those that do not die [He takes] during their sleep. Then He keeps those for which He has decreed death and releases the others for a specified term. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought. 39:42

    Or have they taken other than Allah as intercessors? Say, "Even though they do not possess [power over] anything, nor do they reason?" 39:43

    Say, "To Allah belongs [the right to allow] intercession entirely. To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. Then to Him you will be returned." 39:44
    ---–

    And it was already revealed to you and to those before you that if you should associate [anything] with Allah , your work would surely become worthless, and you would surely be among the losers." 39:65

    Rather, worship [only] Allah and be among the grateful. 39:66
    ----

    Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was. 3:59
    The truth is from your Lord, so do not be among the doubters. 3:60

    October 28, 2011 at 8:11 pm |
    • Kraken

      Mohammed's brother slept with 5 thugs and now we see the result. Nothing.

      October 28, 2011 at 8:15 pm |
    • Reality

      And yet the mytical Abraham continues making his way to the neurons of the brainwashed:

      An update on old Abe:

      origin: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482 NY Times review and important enough to reiterate.

      New Torah For Modern Minds

      “Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

      Such startling propositions - the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years - have gained wide acceptance among non-Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity - until now.

      The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine doc-ument.

      The notion that the Bible is not literally true "is more or less settled and understood among most Conservative rabbis," observed David Wolpe, a rabbi at Sinai Temple in Los Angeles and a contributor to "Etz Hayim." But some congregants, he said, "may not like the stark airing of it." Last Passover, in a sermon to 2,200 congregants at his synagogue, Rabbi Wolpe frankly said that "virtually every modern archaeologist" agrees "that the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way that it happened, if it happened at all." The rabbi offered what he called a "LITANY OF DISILLUSION”' about the narrative, including contradictions, improbabilities, chronological lapses and the absence of corroborating evidence. In fact, he said, archaeologists digging in the Sinai have "found no trace of the tribes of Israel - not one shard of pottery."

      October 29, 2011 at 12:02 am |
  3. Kebos

    Occam's Razor is my guiding principle. That is, select from among competing hypotheses the one that makes the fewest new assumptions. By that, religion is a complete and utter farce. And has no place anymore on this planet. We would do well to turn our back on religion and live our lives as humans in a humane way.

    October 28, 2011 at 8:09 pm |
    • Alfred E Neuman

      Without Christianity ,what you suggest would have long since degenerated into self destruction.

      October 28, 2011 at 8:44 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      Mad...just as your name suggests Alfred. Your belief is what makes you think a lack of religion would herald the downfall of civilization. My view is diametrically opposed to that assumption. The divisive nature of religious belief...an US vs. THEM pattern is evident throughout history and likely stymied progress of humankind.

      October 29, 2011 at 8:36 am |
    • JackoB

      Occam was a Christian. Therefore, Occam's razor and Christianity are not incompatible.

      October 30, 2011 at 6:56 pm |
  4. A Changed Man

    Belief in the LORD Jesus Christ is a blessing to any life. Thinking of HIM gives me hope that I would not have. My life is constantly changing and improving for the better. All GLORY belongs to HIM!

    October 28, 2011 at 8:04 pm |
    • Kebos

      Absolutely zero glory belongs to him. Not one iota.

      October 28, 2011 at 8:09 pm |
    • JohnQuest

      Your life is better because you make it better. You or someone you know are doing all the work. What has God or Jesus ever done for or to that you didn't or couldn't do yourself?

      October 28, 2011 at 8:48 pm |
  5. Anon

    Archeologically it can be proven that Christianity is based on the assimilation of previous myths, but getting the Christians to accept or even acknowledge it is the hard part. Some even use mental gymnastics with cognitive dissonance to merge reality with their myths. (ex. Intelligent Design AKA IDiotism)

    October 28, 2011 at 8:03 pm |
  6. hesalive

    I know He's alive because He wants me to.

    October 28, 2011 at 7:53 pm |
    • Anon

      Eh no, it's because your bodily cells are functioning correctly for now. Ever heard of cancer?

      October 28, 2011 at 7:57 pm |
    • JA

      Hey Anon, ever heard of laminin?

      October 30, 2011 at 2:51 pm |
  7. Anon

    Christians are screwed up in the head.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUVXEmJRGns

    October 28, 2011 at 7:43 pm |
  8. Whodathunk

    Heaven Sent, You need to take this "go humble" advice more to heart... and admit that you are dumber than a box of rocks - oh wait, you think that the rocks will speak one day - how about dumber than a bag of hammers? - oh no, then there's the "hammer of the Lord". Well, how about this... you are a cretin.

    October 28, 2011 at 7:01 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      HS doesn't know what "humility" is. She is convinced she is right and the rest of us are just going to hell. And she is called to preach at us until we concede that she is right.

      She's a whack-basket.

      She's also dishonest. I asked her about the Jewish soldiers, and she dissembles. She can't give an honest answer to my question; she'll just quote scripture and pretend she's answered.

      She's a coward. She knows if she answers with her belief, she'll be roundly pummeled, and rightly so.

      October 28, 2011 at 7:44 pm |
    • Keith

      Chickenshlt tom, Is coward your new favorite word? Left you a little reply back on the LGBT story (pg 20) where you chose to take a sucker punch after I left the room. You're sooooo brave.

      October 28, 2011 at 9:54 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Do you like leaving little "messages" long after everyone has stopped reading the board? Guess that's what you mean by cowardly.

      HS is a boob. So are you.

      October 28, 2011 at 10:23 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So funny. Keith thinks people here notice when he "leaves the room." What, does it smell better or something, Keith?

      October 28, 2011 at 10:23 pm |
    • Greggery Peccary

      @tom tom
      LOL

      Amen

      October 28, 2011 at 10:32 pm |
    • Ketih

      Chickensh!t tom, If you'd read the post(LGBT pg. 20) you would have seen that I was leaving the blog. You throw your cheap-shot sucker punch afterward. Where I come from, you would qualify as the coward. You, nor anyone else refuted my comments, regardless. If you want to act like a punk, then you will be treated as such.

      October 29, 2011 at 8:22 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Wow. Must have really hurt Keith's feelings. Poor thing.

      October 29, 2011 at 9:24 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I don't where Keith "comes from" (probably a town that has no buildings taller than 3 stories), but a coward is someone who runs away to talk to his dog when he can't prove that the point he was attempting to make had no basis in fact.

      But if I've so wounded you, Keith, my sincerest apologies.

      October 29, 2011 at 9:37 am |
    • Jeesh

      You are a jerk Tom.

      October 31, 2011 at 6:05 pm |
  9. Primewonk

    J.W wrote, "Atheists all evolved from monkeys."

    Have you ever noticed that the folks who denigrate science are always the same ones who don't have a clue as to what science says.

    October 28, 2011 at 6:46 pm |
    • Answer

      They don't want to read science. Never mind understand it.

      Most of them will simply find an Intelligent Design website and quote the needed references to attack atheists and science. They don't have any advanced thoughts other than that. No one person can know everything nor topic of science and that is what the Intelligent Design way of spreading falsehood about science.

      The advocates of Intelligent Design will never accept any refutes posted on science sites that counter their literature of falsehoods so these religious freaks will never know the proper refutes that are established by real scientists. It's a game really where the religious idiots all come out and try to attack science simply because they know they won't want to understand it. It destroys their niches. The need for salvation.. the need to be accepted .. the fear of themselves dying. All classical of just not accepting reality.

      October 28, 2011 at 7:11 pm |
    • Answer

      If you were to ask them to look up on the references of the proof themselves by going to a real science site they will ignore the comment. They will wholeheartedly however encourage any atheist to go read their literature though. They know we have already read theirs and they refuse for this simple fact because it is the real truth.

      October 28, 2011 at 7:14 pm |
    • fred

      Answer
      Question for you one of those sites you refer to claims chimps are not our ancesters. "There is no primate species alive today which we have decended from". "we are more like cusins than ancestors". I have no Idea what that means do you? My take is that it is simply saying we have similar DNA or DNA in common but no relation?

      October 28, 2011 at 7:32 pm |
    • Answer

      Go to a science site and read. I don't care if you find out what evolution is for yourself.
      I really don't. All I care is that you go and do things for yourself. F-u-c-k-i-n-g idiots who do not want to be educated are not my problem.

      October 28, 2011 at 7:35 pm |
    • Answer

      I will tell you Fred that your problem is: your acceptance of magic. As a matter of fact all religious people have this HUGE burden of overcoming the principle of MAGIC!

      Your lot derives everything in MAGIC. A snap of your fingers and you think that a whole SPECIES can instantly turn into another. This is the core of your religious failings at fault of not understanding anything. There is no magic in this world.

      October 28, 2011 at 7:42 pm |
    • Anon

      Many religious folks think evolution is like X-Men. <_<

      October 28, 2011 at 7:59 pm |
    • fred

      Answer
      It would have been much easier for you to say you did not know why chimps are not our ancestors and more like our cousins. That’s ok I understand that some people cannot admit they just don’t know everything. I gave you a hint so would not embarrass yourself because I am a nice guy. We can trace our ancestry; grandfather, father, son but we cannot do that with all the information we now have in order to connect chimps to us. Now, even you a devout atheist and me a Christian have much the same DNA but our family lines are not connected. Now try that with a current primate and yourself and note they are close but not an ancestor.

      October 28, 2011 at 8:25 pm |
    • fred

      Answer
      Just like 7-up is the un-cola you should change your handle to the unanswered.
      By the way it is not magic when we speak of that which you cannot see. Magic in the Bible is very different from miracles and the wondrous works of God. Read the Bible and you will see that in almost every instance where someone shows off their magic God shows the real thing and exposes the tricks of man. When you say magic I assume you know the difference and just us such language to irritate some Christians

      October 28, 2011 at 8:35 pm |
    • Observer

      "with all the information we now have in order to connect chimps to us"

      We have found numerous fossils that have characteristics of both and yet are clearly NOT uniquely one of the two.

      October 28, 2011 at 8:38 pm |
    • fred

      Thank you Observer !

      October 28, 2011 at 8:58 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      Fred.. it is not a secret that the human body is not perfect, and contains many flaws, if a god designed us then he did a very poor job. Why did he design us in a way that we have to eat? or die of cancers, with out having to eat we could save countless millions from a painful demise. Do you still have your appendix.. why do you have it in the first place? There is no evidence for creation, but plenty for evolution. There are many good books out that explain it in ways that you can understand. So far there is nothing from the bible that humans were not aware of before it was written..

      October 28, 2011 at 9:27 pm |
    • Ted Fundy

      Fred, based on the DNA and fossil evidence, we humans look to have a common anscestor with chimpanzees, and that ancestor was an earlier primate. Does that make sense to you?

      October 28, 2011 at 9:34 pm |
    • fred

      EvolvedDNA
      The Bible is a story about God redeeming a chosen people for Himself. It is not about science, math etc. God has given people special gifts for various reasons so that His purpose can be compete and we are heading in that direction. Our DNA began to fall apart because of close inbreeding initially. Notice that Adam and Eve would not have ever died because God did create the perfect world as you described. Note how their ages drop from close to 1,000 down to 120 year life span. Floods, earthquakes etc did not come until after the perfect garden was shattered. Man did this not God. The Bible tell the same story over and over but man refuses to listen generation after generation

      October 28, 2011 at 9:50 pm |
    • fred

      Ted Fundy
      Ok, we just have problem with the definition of ancestor.

      October 28, 2011 at 9:53 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Chimps are not the ancestors of humans. Humans are great apes along with orangutans, gorillas, and chimps/bonobos. We share a common ancestor with these other great apes. Chimps and humans last common ancestor was a primate 5 million years ago.

      Seriously, you should have learned this in Junior High.

      October 28, 2011 at 10:28 pm |
    • fred

      Following is the conclusion from Francis S. Collins, The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief (New York: Free Press, 2006),
      "The claim that humans share a common ancestry with other species should not be misunderstood to mean that humans have evolved from any other presently existing species. Rather than having evolved from chimps, humans share a close common ancestry with them. Therefore, rather than a grandfather to grandson association of chimpanzees to humans, we are more like cousins. No existing primate species is an ancestor of the human species"

      October 28, 2011 at 10:51 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      Fred..At one time it was easy to tell people that earthquakes, floods were actions of the gods because it was the simplest answer.. today we understand why these things happen. We understand why species change over time.. and how genes work, and the DNA code that exists in every living thing. The iron in your blood came from a star that went supernova egos ago..iron can only form in the exploding forces of such an event. You are connected to the universe and to events long gone. Bacteria that evolve to resist antibiotics, rats that can become resistant to poisons these are examples of the power of variants in genes. You will need to explain where god came from and then who made him/her..evolution is well understood and is as close to fact as is possible. yet to be understood is abiogenesis, but hypotheses abound and at some point and theory will emerge.

      October 29, 2011 at 12:37 am |
    • tallulah13

      I strongly suspect fred evolved from a box of hammers.

      October 29, 2011 at 12:43 am |
    • fred

      EvolvedDNA
      Science addresses how and the Bible address why. If you wish to go through life knowing and experiencing only 50% of what life is about that is your choice. I do not know a single Christian that denies Science and lives inside the Bible only. Christians are open minded enough to see science through the eyes of a scientist and God through the eyes of faith. A very small portion of Americans about 8% choose or perhaps have a sensory limitation that inhibits awareness beyond the physical. Children have a very high order of non physical awareness perception. As one ages this innate sense diminishes as it is not stimulated or enhanced by natural needs. Children who grow up in homes where there is faith have a greater sense. This sense can be stimulated suddenly through deep trauma or other events where the mind attempts reorientation.
      Science will always hit a dead end with the why is there a universe or who made God question. Man needs to know this in order to explain purpose if they have a normal sense of non physical awareness.

      October 29, 2011 at 2:15 am |
    • fred

      tallulah13
      That explains my hammer toe an why my dad was a carpenter. You nailed that one. Thanks

      October 29, 2011 at 2:18 am |
  10. HeavenSent

    Typed too fast. That was meant to be articles.

    October 28, 2011 at 6:31 pm |
    • Greggery Peccary

      @HS
      YOU typed too fast? Don't you type with two fingers?? Good thing evolution gave you opposable thumbs so at least you don't "Peck" the space bar too!

      Amen

      October 28, 2011 at 10:34 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      GP, ha!

      October 29, 2011 at 9:39 am |
  11. Reality

    The following prayer should help anyone interested in 21st century rational thinking:

    The Apostles' Creed 2011: (updated by yours truly based on the studies of NT historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

    Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
    and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
    human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven?????

    I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
    preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
    named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
    girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

    Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
    the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

    He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
    a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of
    Jerusalem.

    Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
    many semi-fiction writers. A bodily resurrection and
    ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
    Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
    grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
    and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
    called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

    Amen

    October 28, 2011 at 6:25 pm |
    • Alfred E Neuman

      Your posting appears to be a useless waste of time and space.Try something else more suitable to your lack of intellect.

      October 28, 2011 at 6:35 pm |
    • hesalive

      He's alive, man. Satan has deceived you. Every knee will bow and confess that Jesus is Lord. Reject him now, be rejected then. You don't want to go there. Hell is real and unless you repent of your sins and follow the Risen Son, you'll end up there. It does not have to go that way.

      October 28, 2011 at 7:51 pm |
    • Greggery Peccary

      I do reject him! I do! I do!

      October 28, 2011 at 9:40 pm |
    • hippypoet

      did you do the whole i do i do thing from peter pan? thats funny!

      October 28, 2011 at 9:51 pm |
    • Greggery Peccary

      @HP
      Good eye! Yup, it is in the libretto for the children't musical I am writing! LOL

      October 28, 2011 at 10:20 pm |
    • Greggery Peccary

      @HP

      ET the Extra Terrestrial would have also been allowed. Drew Barrymore I do! I do!

      October 28, 2011 at 10:26 pm |
    • tallulah13

      As long as my knee is no longer attached to my body, it can do what ever it pleases. However, I will never bow down to your god, because he doesn't exist. I don't bow for fairies or unicorns, either. I don't spend a lot of my life bowing to anything, really, although I feel like I exist to serve my cats sometimes.

      October 29, 2011 at 12:46 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Laughing, tally. You know what they say: "Dogs have masters; cats have staff."

      October 29, 2011 at 9:41 am |
  12. Entil'za

    Motivation and Morality doesn't always go together.

    October 28, 2011 at 5:29 pm |
  13. HS

    JohnQuest, twice I wrote a response to you and twice CNN mod squadders are blocking it. Boy, the Jesus' haters at CNN are out of control. They're helping you loose your souls.

    Amen.

    October 28, 2011 at 5:17 pm |
    • ....

      You conclusion of who/what is blocking your posts is as wrong as your other ideas. Maybe you could by a clue ?

      October 28, 2011 at 6:10 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @HS

      How many times have you been told that there are NO humans reading and making judgments on your comments?

      It is an algorithm that looks for words and partial words that might be offensive. The program does not underline or highlight the offensive word or phrase. It just deletes your entire comment.

      You are not battling Satan or his minions. If the words "Praise God" were included as one of the words / phrases to search for, the comment with "Praise God" would be flagged and deleted. Or the phrase could be "Praise Atheists" or "Zeus is god"
      Each, would not be allowed. The meaning of the words is irrelevant. Actually, the computer only understands numbers.

      I am praying for you HS. There is hope. Even the scarecrow finally discovered his brain.

      Cheers!

      Cheers!

      October 28, 2011 at 6:25 pm |
    • Greggery Peccary

      I can assure you there is NO hope for HS.

      Amen

      October 28, 2011 at 10:23 pm |
    • tallulah13

      HS, your vanity knows no boundaries. It's ironic how you always talk about other people's egos, but then prove yours is a sprawling wasteland by ignoring the fact that there are no real people censoring here, just an automated system with a set script of letter combinations that may be found offensive. You have been told this time and again, but you prefer the drama of feeling like a martyr. You are truly laughable.

      October 29, 2011 at 12:54 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You forgot too mention her paranoia about everyone here, tally. HS is convinced that there are only a couple of people posting responses to her-they just change their handles. She can believe in a god, but not quite manage to fathom the fact that there are quite a few posters who think she's a bona fide loon.

      October 29, 2011 at 10:53 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Whoops-"to mention".

      October 29, 2011 at 11:12 am |
  14. JohnQuest

    HeavenSent, I am missing something are you saying that Satan is as powerful as God?

    October 28, 2011 at 5:16 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      John Quest, you are missing more than this point.

      Satan was created by God. How can a creation be as powerful as the creator? He can't. God allows satan's evil to flourish as a test (all of life is a test from God) to see if we will follow satan's evil, or love and follow Jesus' truth. It's that simple but you atheists make His truth difficult.

      Amen.

      October 28, 2011 at 5:22 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @HeavenSent

      Oh, my deluded believer! There is no devil. No demons of any sort. Nothing under your beds. If there were, I would tell you.

      Satan was invented by men, because they felt "funny" worshipping a god that had just devastated a village of good people via a flood. They didn't want their god to be the one who did evil. So, Beelzebub was born.

      Consider: You believe god is all knowing. Yes?

      You believe god is all powerful. Yes?

      You believe everything written in the bible is true. Yes?

      You believe Satan is at least as intelligent as your average human. Yes?

      You believe Satan can read? Yes?

      Do you think Satan ever read the part, in the King James, where he loses the battle against god? What would be the point in continuing the battle, if the goal (victory?) ABSOLUTELY was not obtainable? I think this would be disheartening to any army. Even a band of fallen angels.

      But more importantly:

      Who, more than a fallen angel, would believe/know god was omniscient? Not to mention omnipotent. That would have been a stumbling block to any coup attempt. Right?

      God, with these superlative attributes, could not be surprised or defeated. He could not be wounded. He is almighty! Right?

      So, rebellion would have been dumb of Satan and his band of angels. God would have said, "You will lose and you will lose your health insurance." End of rebellion, I think.

      These stories are fiction. Do you see that? What ent ity would rebel against an all powerful, all knowing god? You couldn't even sneak up on Him. Sheesh! Use your brain, just a little.

      What's funny, is that Christians bestow upon their god, the attributes of being omnibenevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient.
      Never mind that it is impossible for a god to be all those things at the same time.

      But, Christians never stop to think how these attributes affect their fairy tales. They never consider the ramifications resulting from these superlative qualities that they give to their god.

      Some have told me, that Satan knows he will be defeated. His goal is to take as many humans to hell with him as possible.
      But, Christians also say, their god is all knowing. If god can see the future, if the future can be known, He would know exactly how many souls will be lost and how many saved. He would know this, from the beginning. If He does not know this, then He is not Omniscient.

      If god can know the future, then everything is predetermined. Satan would be locked into his part. Like Judas and Peter, he would have no choice.

      If the predictions of the bible concerning Satan and the end times are true, then all the events and actions leading up to the fulfillment of these predictions, are predetermined. Predictions, cannot depend on chance.

      “For me, it is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.”
      – Carl Sagan

      Ha, Ha, Ha! I laugh at you and your silly beliefs!

      Cheers!

      October 28, 2011 at 5:59 pm |
    • fred

      David Johnson
      At least you finally got off that tiny limb of your own making that said Jesus never existed. Remember, baby steps that is how it begins.

      So now you say:” If god can see the future, if the future can be known, He would know exactly how many souls will be lost and how many saved. He would know this, from the beginning. If He does not know this, then He is not Omniscient.”

      -You are still trying to get God by out smarting Him. Never going to happen. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. He is Divine and the creator of the first order. God is eternal thus outside of His creation that only knows a small time line with a beginning and an end. If it helps we can picture God looking at all of earth past present and future. What you fail to grasp is an eternal time line has no beginning or end. God can look forward or back in our time line and it is the same moment. Eternal is more of a loop and God sits outside and looks at the loop. In case you have not noticed the Bible itself and the story line is a complete loop.

      You said: “What would be the point in continuing the battle, if the goal (victory?) ABSOLUTELY was not obtainable? I think this would be disheartening to any army. Even a band of fallen angels.”

      -Satan was not eternal he had a beginning and end just like you did. Back to the loop David, Satan does the same dumb thing over and over again just like man in the Bible makes the same mistakes over and over again. We ignore God and choose evils deception every day. Your attack on Christians is nothing more that delusion. The end is just as clear for you as it is for satan. He has heard and read the same Bible you have. You continue your attack on God and Gods children and so does satan. God does not put people is an eternity away from His children because God is evil. God puts satan and his kind away forever because they are not ever capable of not causing evil. Darkness is just that darkness there is no light whatsoever in there.

      October 28, 2011 at 6:24 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @fred

      Jesus never existed. Not one ever proved that he did. Wanna try again? LOL.

      Satan does not exist.

      The Christian god is very unlikely to exist. Wanna try to prove He does?

      Cheers!

      October 28, 2011 at 6:45 pm |
    • HAHA

      "God puts satan and his kind away forever because they are not ever capable of not causing evil. "

      What a crock – by the theory that has been presented if a man lives a humble, loving, compassionate, empathetic life, does good all his life but doesn't believe in your god he will be condemn to hell. That is a tyrant of a god you got there. The point is you are saying that the gentlest of people who are good to their core cause evil for the mere fact they don't believe in your god. What a load of crap.

      October 28, 2011 at 6:47 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Fred

      You said: "God does not put people is an eternity away from His children because God is evil."

      Hmmm...

      It is said: "By your fruit you will be known."

      Let's look at your god's "fruit".

      God directly or at His insistence, murdered men, women and children including babies. This isn't evil? Is this moral?

      God killed every living thing on the face of the earth other than Noah and his family, because man was wicked. Afterwards, He decides He won't kill everything again, because man's heart is evil from his youth. This isn't evil? Is this moral? An all knowing god didn't know this BEFORE He murdered everyone on the planet? OOOooopsie!

      God had a man believe he was going to sacrifice his son to Him. Do you know how traumatic that would be for a father and his son?
      If you had the power would you do this? Would you be so insecure? This isn't evil? Is this moral?

      There was a man who loved God. God made a bet with Satan that even if the man were tortured, his Possessions taken, and his children killed, he would still love God and never curse Him. God won the bet.
      Would you do that? Would you kill a man's children for a bet? This isn't evil? Is this moral?

      God sent a bear to kill a group of children, because they had teased one of His prophets.
      Did the children deserve to die, because they teased a bald man? This isn't evil? Is this moral? Is this a just god?

      God allowed a man to sacrifice his daughter to Him, for giving the man a victory in battle. Human sacrifice! This isn't evil? Is this moral?

      God created a place He can send people to be burned for all eternity. Could an all benevolent god construct such a place of misery?

      If a puppy wet on the floor, would you hold it over a burner? Even for a second? I couldn't do that. Not to a puppy. Certainly not to a human. I am more moral than the Christian god.

      I call Jesus, Himself as a witness!

      Jesus had this to say:

      Matthew 7:17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

      Luke 6:43 "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.

      1. A god who is not evil, can't do evil things!
      This is established, by Jesus' testimony.

      2. The Christian god is guilty of horrid crimes against humans
      Evidenced by the atrocities recorded in the bible and the Christian god's own admission:

      Isaiah 45:7, KJV says the Christian god is responsible for at least some evil: "..I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

      3. Therefore, god is evil. He bears bad fruit.

      If you whine that I am taking these examples out of context, then I invite you to read the examples of god's behavior again. Tell me in what reality or under what circ_umstances, these actions would not be evil?

      Cheers!

      October 28, 2011 at 6:50 pm |
    • fred

      HA HA
      You and David must be reading the same Devils Playbook. Hell is reserved for satan which is clear. The Bible does not say gooddie too shoes people end up in hell. That is sound bite I hear too often and it is a lie. The Bible says you are not held accountable for what you cannot have known or could not have done anything about. Even so the bottom line is that the Bible makes it clear hell is reserved for satan and his demons. As far as everyone else is concerned you will be blottted out of existence (you were never alive) or those that make a deliberate choice to reject God will be granted their hearts desire – an eternity without God. Now, we do not know what that would look like. Believe the Bible or not our generation and past generations have never experienced life without God. Just because you and David do not believe in God does not mean God is not present restraining evil.

      October 28, 2011 at 7:00 pm |
    • HAHA

      “the Bible says you are not held accountable for what you cannot have known or could not have done anything about.”
      Nice twisting job – you are certainly a christian. Read again what I wrote.

      “by the theory that has been presented if a man lives a humble, loving, compassionate, empathetic life, does good all his life but doesn't believe in your god he will be condemn to hell.”

      “Now, we do not know what that would look like.”

      LOL your bible spells it out dude – burn in hell. NO if and or buts about it. You’re making excuses for your god.

      The point is your god is a tyrant it will burn a gentle loving person just for not believing, that is what you're calling evil when using that word, remember that next time you use it.

      October 28, 2011 at 7:13 pm |
    • fred

      David Johnson
      How you managed to pick these examples from the Bible and use them against a loving and mercefull God is of grave concern. We are reading translations of a picture language from 3,400 years ago or longer for some of your examples. Keep in mind it is hard to sort out what is literal and what is not. One example you point to the evil Generation of Cain being destroyed. This is the flood story where God shows how he personally protected Noah and cared for his family. The generation of Cain was evil in the most unspeakable of ways and was getting worse. My translation says they were blotted out ~ erased from existence / never born. Once again you miss the tender love and care of God. He allowed Cain and that bunch almost 900 years to turn from evil before he finally had it wih them. God was merciful he limits evils reach. With Job he was merciful and restrains the evil one. Remember the devil could only go so far. All pictures of a loving caring God. Don't ask what parts were literal or not we don't even know when Job lived. That story was given to us in the Bible because it revealed key characteristics of man and his relationship with God. God rescued, protected and restored Job to a better place than before. When the evil one is through with you and our entire existence comes to an end what does God do? He restores everything better than it was before. The entire Bible is about how to get away from this darkness you are stuck in. God loves you and wants to save you.
      That is some deception you have going on in your head.

      October 28, 2011 at 7:24 pm |
    • Answer

      "God loves you and wants to save you"

      One hand of falsehood feeding another hand of falsehood. The voices in your head .. keep on echoing.
      Would you like to test it that fact on yourself? Do it today and prove this fact. Show us your heaven by going there first.

      October 28, 2011 at 7:28 pm |
    • JohnQuest

      It seems to me that don't know that the Bible was writtten by men, not ET. I have read your Bible a few times and there is nothing in it that could not have been written by a Bronze Age man. There are no concepts in it that were not already known by the people of the time.

      I really don't know if Jesus was a real person or not but even if he was a real person that only proves that Jesus was real not a God.

      October 28, 2011 at 8:42 pm |
    • fred

      Answer
      Fortunately for you and ha ha God was so kind as to make His Divine words easy for anyone including Christians to understand what is important. Your comment reminded me of the two criminals hanging next to Christ on the cross. One mocked Jesus and said if you are God come down from that cross and save yourself. The other said to the criminal “do you not fear God” then he looked at Jesus and said“ I deserve this but you have done nothing wrong ,remember me”. This man went to heaven with Jesus and no mention is made of what became of the other. Simple enough all you need to do is ask Jesus to remember you, can you do that? If you can’t then how are you like that other criminal and is that how you wish to be in the end.

      October 28, 2011 at 8:50 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Fred

      You said: "How you managed to pick these examples from the Bible and use them against a loving and mercefull God is of grave concern. We are reading translations of a picture language from 3,400 years ago or longer for some of your examples. "

      They are stories taken from the King James Bible. I didn't invent them.

      Christian idiots are using the translations of a picture language from 3,400 years ago or longer to attempt to deny the rights of gays and women. Make up your mind. Is the bible the inerrant word of god or not? If not, how do know/pick which is real and which isn't.

      "keep in mind it is hard to sort out what is literal and what is not. One example you point to the evil Generation of Cain being destroyed. This is the flood story where God shows how he personally protected Noah and cared for his family. The generation of Cain was evil in the most unspeakable of ways and was getting worse. My translation says they were blotted out ~ erased from existence / never born. Once again you miss the tender love and care of God. He allowed Cain and that bunch almost 900 years to turn from evil before he finally had it wih them. God was merciful he limits evils reach. "

      Tender love and care of god, you say? What of the innocent little babies that God drowned in his irrational act of vengeance. Not just a blob of cells, but babies. Babies that their parents held as high as possible, until they could reach no higher. They could hold their breath no longer.
      A god who could speak the entire universe into existence couldn't have come up with a better solution? Woody Allen once said, "god was an underachiever." Yes, or a figment of man's imagination.

      Why didn't god just instantly change man, into whatever He wanted him to be? Why does everything god do, involve suffering?

      People of the United States try very hard to avoid the suffering of people who are executed. Shouldn't we expect the same of the one true god?

      Genesis 6:6 King James Version (KJV)6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

      1 Samuel 15:29 King James Version (KJV)
      29And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.

      WoW! Ambiguous much? LOL

      You said: "With Job he was merciful and restrains the evil one. Remember the devil could only go so far. All pictures of a loving caring God. Don't ask what parts were literal or not we don't even know when Job lived. That story was given to us in the Bible because it revealed key characteristics of man and his relationship with God. God rescued, protected and restored Job to a better place than before. "

      God made a bet with Satan. He allowed Satan to kill Job's children. Yes, he gave Job knew children, but I like my original set. God has no respect for human life.

      Spin it how you wish. The story is in the bible.

      You said: When the evil one is through with you and our entire existence comes to an end what does God do? He restores everything better than it was before. The entire Bible is about how to get away from this darkness you are stuck in. God loves you and wants to save you.
      That is some deception you have going on in your head."

      There is no evidence to support the afterlife theory. In fact, there is no evidence for a soul. Want to debate that? LOL

      You were unable to show any circu_mstance where the bible stories I related, were not evil.

      I will help you with a list of Theological Gymnastics that believers use to defend their god and bible:

      Believer's Rule of Thumb: If a bible verse furthers the cause, it is to be taken literally. If a bible verse is detrimental to the cause, it is either: taken out of context; is allegorical; refers to another verse somewhere else; is a translation or copyist's error; means something other than what it actually says; Is a mystery of god or not discernable by humans; or is just plain magic.

      Your god is vile. I like debating you. You remind me of my 8th grade girlfriend. She was easy to. LOL

      Cheers!

      October 28, 2011 at 8:59 pm |
    • fred

      David Johnson
      "You remind me of my 8th grade girlfriend. She was easy to"

      OMG davey is this you ! Shame on you davey, I am going to ask tommy to carry my books next week.

      October 28, 2011 at 9:33 pm |
    • Ted Fundy

      fred is stupid but it's fun to toy with his little brain.

      October 28, 2011 at 9:40 pm |
    • fred

      Hello............I'am right here I heard that.

      October 28, 2011 at 10:08 pm |
    • David Johnson

      Mark interprets as fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah 53:12

      Isaiah 53:12 King James Version (KJV)

      12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

      Every bit of the Gospels are written to "prove" Jesus was the Messiah. It is just a myth.

      The author of Mathew even admits to Jesus riding on a colt for the sole purpose of fulfilling a prophecy.

      Mathew 21: 1-11
      Now when they drew near Jerusalem, and came to Bethphage at the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, saying to them, “Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her. Loose them and bring them to Me. And if anyone says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord has need of them,’ and immediately he will send them.”

      NOTE THIS NEXT VERSE:

      All this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying:
      “ Tell the daughter of Zion,
      ‘ Behold, your King is coming to you,
      Lowly, and sitting on a donkey,
      A colt, the foal of a donkey."

      It isn't really very hard for the writers of the New Testament to have Jesus fulfill the prophecies. You just choose a prophesy and write away! Many of the so called prophesies did not even pertain to Jesus.

      There were prophesies that the Messiah was supposed to fulfill. These didn't get done. The Christians say Jesus will do these on his second trip to earth. The Jews, the experts on the Old Testament, say the real Messiah will not need a second trip.

      Jesus predicted He would return in the 1st Century...He was dead wrong. LOL

      Cheers!

      Jesus predicted He would return in the 1st century.

      October 28, 2011 at 10:44 pm |
  15. GodIsALie

    So now this "God" character is both fictional and de-motivational. Yet, millions of mindless sheep still believe in the fairy tales. Makes me glad I was born with a functioning brain.

    October 28, 2011 at 4:57 pm |
    • JohnQuest

      Most of the believers are born with a functioning brain (read Atheist) it's their parents that jack them up (read indoctrinates them into a religion).

      October 28, 2011 at 5:05 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      GIALie, just because you boast about yourself, doesn't make it true.

      Amen.

      October 28, 2011 at 5:25 pm |
    • Entil'za

      @GodIsALie- Prove he is a fictional character. Plz provide the author of the concept, where the concept was created, why and how also please. Give citations and other forms of proven evidence.
      Good luck.

      October 28, 2011 at 5:30 pm |
    • ....

      Entil'za,
      Since you have never taken a logic course, it is impossible to prove a negative. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". You have not one shred.

      October 28, 2011 at 6:13 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      JohnQuest, you wrote "Most of the believers are born with a functioning brain (read Atheist) it's their parents that jack them up (read indoctrinates them into a religion)."

      Answer: You can't handle His truth but I'll tell you anyway ... you didn't have parents that loved you enough to introduce you to Jesus' truth and if you did, they didn't love you enough to insist that you read His letter He wrote to all of us (the Bible). What can I say except your parents went astray on this most important of your (and their) salvation.

      Amen.

      October 28, 2011 at 6:16 pm |
    • Observer

      HeavenSent,
      "you didn't have parents that loved you enough to introduce you to Jesus' truth and if you did, they didn't love you enough to insist that you read His letter He wrote to all of us (the Bible). What can I say except your parents went astray on this most important of your (and their) salvation."

      It's likely that his parents gave him encouragement to learn as much as possible about our world. There doesn't seem to be much evidence here that your parents did that from your comments.

      People have to be pretty wacky to pass judgment on the level of love from parents of a stranger. The medical term is "delusion". Of course, the Bible says not to pass judgment, but HYPOCRITES are usually too incredibly ignorant to comprehend that. Grow up.

      October 28, 2011 at 6:57 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Entil'za

      Actually, since it is the believers that are positing a god, it would be their burden to supply evidence that god does indeed exist.

      No one can prove a negative. I can't prove that god does not exist. I also can't prove Santa Claus does not exist. But in life, we decide what is real and not real, based on what we see in the world around us.

      In the real world, any object that provides no evidence for its existence is classified as imaginary.

      I think we can rule out god, in the same way we rule out any other mythological creature. I can't prove vampires or werewolves or fairies don't exist. But, I bet you would agree, that they are not real. They just don't fit in with the reality we see all around us.

      Skepticism is the adult response to anything, for which there is no evidence. Only children under the age of 6, should suspend their critical thinking and believe in magic.

      I bet you don't believe in Zeus, or Isis, or Allah, or Krishna. Right? They just don't seem "real". There just isn't any evidence... Except the universe must have a creator. Something can't come from nothing.

      So, we can look for attributes of the Christian god, that should provide evidence that He exists. Sort of like measuring the direction and force of the wind... We can examine the effect.

      If positive evidence is found, we should conclude that god probably exists.

      If positive evidence is not found, then we should conclude that the Christian God, beyond a reasonable doubt, does not exist. Just like Santa. Just like fairies. Just like vampires. Just like the other gods you reject?

      One of the most compelling reasons for rejecting a god, is the fact that there are so many versions of god(s). Some, not even human (The elephant-faced god – Ganesha etc.). Each religion, each denomination of each religion, defines god's wants differently. All of these religions cannot be right. But they can all be wrong.
      Perhaps man has not yet found the one true god, or perhaps the one true god does not exist.

      Christians claim their god is Omnipotent ( all powerful), Omniscient (all knowing) and Omnibenevolent (all good).

      1). If god is Omnibenevolent, He would WANT every human to believe in Him.
      The bible says He does:

      2 Peter 3:9
      9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. King James Version (KJV)

      1 Timothy 2:4
      4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. King James Version (KJV)

      2.) If god is Omniscient, then He would KNOW exactly how to convince anyone and everyone that He exists.

      3.) If god is Omnipotent, then He would be ABLE to convince anybody and everybody that He exists.

      Yet, ~ 67% of the world's population are NOT Christians.

      Therefore, the Christian god is very unlikely to exist.

      In the same vein as the above, notice how many denominations of Christianity there are (~ 38,000 – World Christian Encyclopedia (2001)).

      Each denomination can show you scripture, that "proves" they understand the wants of Jesus/god.

      All of the denominations could not be correctly interpreting the bible. Many are contradictory.
      Many of these denominations believe only their members will be saved.

      If the Christian god exists, and He is all knowing and all powerful and all good, why didn't He provide a bible that could not be misinterpreted? That everyone's comprehension of His wants would be the same?
      The bible says:

      1 Corinthians 14:33 – KJV
      33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

      Christians believe god's purpose in creating the Bible is to guide human beings towards a knowledge of God, and to help them lead moral lives. If this is so, then Christians must be certain of the meaning of the Bible.

      ambiguity – a word or expression that can be understood in two or more possible ways : an ambiguous word or expression.

      "There are in excess of 1,000 Christian faith groups in North America. They teach diverse beliefs about the nature of Jesus, God, the second coming, Heaven, Hell, the rapture, criteria for salvation, speaking in tongues, the atonement, what happens to persons after death, and dozens of other topics.

      On social controversies, faith groups teach a variety of conflicting beliefs about abortion access, equal rights for ho_mo$exuals and bi$exuals, who should be eligible for marriage, the death penalty, physician assisted suicide, human $exuality topics, origins of the universe, and dozens of other topics.

      The groups all base their theological teachings on the Bible. Generally speaking, the theologians in each of these faith groups are sincere, intelligent, devout, thoughtful and careful in their interpretation of the Bible. But, they come to mutually exclusive conclusions about what it teaches.

      Further, most are absolutely certain that their particular interpretations are correct, and that the many hundreds of faith groups which teach opposing beliefs are in error." Source: Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance

      If the bible is ambiguous, then it cannot be said to be inerrant. If the bible is not without error, then how do we know which parts to accept as truth and which to reject as fiction? Is the will of god, subjective?

      The Christian god is very unlikely to exist.

      Another reason to reject the idea of a god, is because there appears to be no need for one. Each hour of each day, science fills another gap in man's knowledge, that god once filled. So far, science has found no need for a god. The claim, that God Did It, has always been wrong in the past. On this issue, I think the future will look a lot like the past.

      Belief without a reason or evidence, is called "delusional".

      Christians often quote:
      John 3:16 – For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

      If the Christian god so loves the world, why does he allow / cause so much suffering? Disease, famine, floods, earthquakes etc. ad infinitum, ad nauseum. ?

      I can explain the existence of these horrors as being due to natural causes and evolution, but my explanation fails when I include an all loving Creator in the equation. I keep getting a "Can't divide by zero" error.

      Christians say their god is omnibenevolent (all good); omnipotent (all powerful); omniscient ( all knowing)

      1. If the Christian god is all knowing, He would be AWARE of all the suffering on earth.

      2. If the Christian god is all good, He would WANT to rid the world of suffering / evil.

      3. If the Christian god is all powerful, He would be ABLE to rid the world of suffering / evil.

      4. Yet, evil persists.

      Therefore, The Christian god is very unlikely to exist.

      The Christian god is said to be omniscient and omnipotent. But these attributes are not compatible.

      If the Christian god is all knowing, if the future can be known, then even god would be bound by events in the future. Everything would be predetermined.

      1. If the Christian god, knows what will happen in the future, and does something else...then, He is not all knowing.

      2. If the Christian god knows the future and cannot change it, then He is not all powerful.

      3. The attributes attributed to the Christian god conflict with one another.

      The Christian god with these attributes cannot exist. No being can have these attributes at the same time.

      Evolution, with its evidence of transitional fossils, geological column, DNA evidence, vestigial organs etc., is very damning to the biblical Creation Story.

      If god created all the organisms on the planet, then He must have created even the diseases that have caused and are causing so much death and misery for humans and animals. He would have had to fashion the tick and the flea. The mosquito and blood flukes. And worms that bore into a child's eye.

      How could an all good god do such a thing? Why would He spend His time creating gruesome things to cause human suffering? Yet, these horrors exist. And if god didn't create them, who did?

      Evolution explains the diversity of the planet's organisms, including the pathogens and the parasites that have caused so much human death and misery.

      If the Creation Story is a fable, then Adam and Eve did not exist.

      If Adam and Eve did not exist, then there was no original sin.

      If there was no original sin, then it cannot be the reason god allows so much suffering in the world. Instead, there are natural causes for earthquakes and floods and other disasters.

      If there was no original sin, then there was no need for a redeemer.

      If there was no redeemer, then Christianity is a based on a false premise.

      "If we cannot believe in the First Adam, why believe in the Last [Christ]?" 1 Corinthians15:45

      If the Creation story is a myth, then there is no reason to believe any of the bible, since the rest of the bible is built upon Genesis.

      If we evolved, there is no soul –> no afterlife –> no need of a heaven or hell.

      LOL, which is why the Creationists fight so hard against evolution. And why many Evangelicals are reinterpreting Genesis to encompass an old earth. They know the evidence is too overwhelming to ignore.
      Let's see... "And there was evening and there was morning, one day." – Umm... That's millions of years to you and me!

      The Christian god is no more likely to exist than unicorns, satyrs, fiery serpents, or talking snakes, or Allah, or Zeus or Santa. And you don't believe in any of those, Right?

      Cheers!

      October 28, 2011 at 7:40 pm |
    • Entil'za

      @....- "Since you have never taken a logic course, it is impossible to prove a negative. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". You have not one shred."

      You silly little person. I never asked you to prove a negative at all. Do you even know what that means? I asked you to prove he is a fictional character. That is not proving a negative. Duh.

      October 28, 2011 at 9:14 pm |
    • Entil'za

      @David- "Actually, since it is the believers that are positing a god, it would be their burden to supply evidence that god does indeed exist."

      Not so David. Don't go the intellectual lazy route. A declaration was made. It was, "So now this "God" character is both fictional..". Did you catch it? The writer declared God a fictional character. I merely asked him to prove it.
      It would be like asking one to prove Macbeth is a fictional character. We can produce the writer, the when, how and why of it. We can even back it up with evidence. I am just asking him to prove his declaration.
      That isn't proving the negative..see?

      October 28, 2011 at 9:18 pm |
    • Entil'za

      "Christians claim their god is Omnipotent ( all powerful), Omniscient (all knowing) and Omnibenevolent (all good)."

      No they don't. "All good" is not an aspect of God in the Bible. Heck, it even says in the Tanakh that God created good and formed evil

      October 28, 2011 at 9:20 pm |
    • Entil'za

      For all your blabber...you still failed to prove that God is a fictional character. You make as_sumptions..but that's about all.

      You proving that God is a fictional charcter is very very unlikely.

      Cheers!

      October 28, 2011 at 9:22 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      Entil'za..you need no evidence to declare god is real, I use the same evidence to say he does not.

      October 28, 2011 at 9:37 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      God is likely to be a fictional character because "he" appears to exist only in a book of fiction – The Babble.

      October 28, 2011 at 10:22 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @JohnQuest

      You said: "Most of the believers are born with a functioning brain (read Atheist) it's their parents that jack them up (read indoctrinates them into a religion)."

      Yes! Forgive me John, but I want to add that any baby can be raised to believe in any god. I would expect, that if there was actually a one true god, everyone on earth would have a predisposition toward that god. Not true. What your parents believe and where you were raised, are the two most important factors in what religion you will embrace. There are tribes in the rain forests that worship tree gods etc. They fear them. Pray for their intervention. Find comfort in them.

      Your religion is learned. It has nothing to do with any god. Your brain chemistry gives you that warm and fuzzy feeling, believers think is their god. Every religion gives their members these feelings.

      Cheers!

      There is NO EVIDENCE that any religion is more magical than another. They are all made up.

      Cheers!

      October 28, 2011 at 11:16 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @Entil'za
      I said:"Actually, since it is the believers that are positing a god, it would be their burden to supply evidence that god does indeed exist."

      You said: "Not so David. Don't go the intellectual lazy route. A declaration was made. It was, "So now this "God" character is both fictional..". Did you catch it? The writer declared God a fictional character. I merely asked him to prove it.
      It would be like asking one to prove Macbeth is a fictional character. We can produce the writer, the when, how and why of it. We can even back it up with evidence. I am just asking him to prove his declaration.
      That isn't proving the negative..see?

      Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence. – Carl Sagan

      If I state, that god(s), fairies, leprechauns, talking snakes, etc., are fictional, it does not transfer the burden of proof to me. You are still the one making the extraordinary claim that a god exists.

      Unless evidence for the claim is produced, the skeptic can treat the claim as false. This is nothing more than sane, everyday practice. Evidence talks. B.S. walks.

      Now if I made the extraordinary claim that birds were fictional, then the burden would be on me. Why? Cause the reality we see around us is filled with birds. This was not the case.

      There is no more proof for god than for Santa and we call Santa fictional. And yet, we can't absolutely prove Santa does not exist. We just know that a sleigh would not carry enough toys for all the children in the world. A fat man could not down a chimney, reindeer can't fly It just doesn't fit with the reality we see around me.

      An all powerful, all knowing god can only get 33% of the worlds population to believe in Christianity. An all powerful god cannot construct a bible that everyone interprets the same. There are 38,000 different denominations of Christianity. There is so much evil and suffering in the world. How could an all loving, all powerful, all knowing god allow it? Evolution totally destroys the Creation story in Genesis. The entire bible is based on Genesis. Prayer doesn't work as Jesus said it would.

      God is just as unlikely as Santa.

      Cheers!

      October 29, 2011 at 12:58 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Ent, if you cannot prove god is real, then you cannot prove he isn't fictional.

      October 29, 2011 at 10:31 am |
    • Entil'za

      EvolvedDNA- "you need no evidence to declare god is real, I use the same evidence to say he does not."

      1. I never made a declaration that God was real. You might not want to start off an answer guessing.
      2. Don't be lazy. Even if I had done what I did not...you think you should be allowed to just slide on by?

      October 31, 2011 at 1:39 pm |
    • Entil'za

      @Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son- "if you cannot prove god is real, then you cannot prove he isn't fictional."

      That is utterly stupid. So, if you could prove he is fictional...then you could prove he is real?

      October 31, 2011 at 1:40 pm |
    • Entil'za

      @David- "Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence. – Carl Sagan"

      ~Oddly enough...I don't really care what Carl said. But I will humor you a bit on this. Is calling God a fictional character an extraordinary claim? For some reason, I doubt you would call it that.

      "If I state, that god(s), fairies, leprechauns, talking snakes, etc., are fictional, it does not transfer the burden of proof to me. You are still the one making the extraordinary claim that a god exists."

      ~Sorry....Strawman Fallacy. We are not talking about fairies, leprechauns, talking snakes, etc now are we? We are discussing a specific being. Try to stay on topic.
      But if you are making a declaration....it does fall on you to back it up with facts. I am sorry you don't like this but your dislike does not make the reality of it go away.

      "Unless evidence for the claim is produced, the skeptic can treat the claim as false. This is nothing more than sane, everyday practice. Evidence talks. B.S. walks."

      But what is funny is that the original post wasn't responding to anyone on here. He was responding to the article and then made a declaration of something he considers fact. Sorry David....logic dictates that since he made a statement he considers fact toward a topic....he would need to back it up. Seems like for the most part, the atheists on here are walking a lot.

      "Now if I made the extraordinary claim that birds were fictional, then the burden would be on me. Why? Cause the reality we see around us is filled with birds. This was not the case."

      Especially since the topic is not about birds. Just as the topic isn't about God being fictional. The person who wrote the statement made a declaration that was in response to nothing direct. He then should back it up. Those who agree with him should also or face criticism of being intellectually lazy.

      "There is no more proof for god than for Santa and we call Santa fictional. And yet, we can't absolutely prove Santa does not exist. We just know that a sleigh would not carry enough toys for all the children in the world. A fat man could not down a chimney, reindeer can't fly It just doesn't fit with the reality we see around me."

      ~Save your Straw Man Santa for another day and another fallacy. No one with a brain cares.

      "An all powerful, all knowing god can only get 33% of the worlds population to believe in Christianity. An all powerful god cannot construct a bible that everyone interprets the same."

      ~One may call that the fault of a ppl with free will instead of the fault of a God that gives them the choice. No where in the collection of books called the Bible did it say God conctruct it. Quit your lying.

      "There are 38,000 different denominations of Christianity. There is so much evil and suffering in the world. How could an all loving, all powerful, all knowing god allow it? Evolution totally destroys the Creation story in Genesis. The entire bible is based on Genesis. Prayer doesn't work as Jesus said it would."

      ~No one said God is all-loving. No one said that being all powerful means one must act with that power at all times. Not everything is an absolute...to as_sume absolutes is a failure of logic.
      Care to explain how Jesus said it would? Plz read the entire chapter and not just a few select verses. it will save you some humiliation.

      Cheers!

      October 31, 2011 at 1:58 pm |
    • Bizarre

      Entil'za,

      Quit your "Straw Man" accusations. They are for comparison purposes - and they are just as illustrative as Jesus' parables, or any other contrived metaphors in the Bible about birds, seeds, sheep and such.

      October 31, 2011 at 2:09 pm |
    • Entil'za

      @Bizarre- "Quit your "Straw Man" accusations. They are for comparison purposes – and they are just as illustrative as Jesus' parables, or any other contrived metaphors in the Bible about birds, seeds, sheep and such."

      No. I will call it as I see it.
      "To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position." Is this a good enough definition? It applies here.

      The ppl are not trying to create a "parable" to explain some theological metaphor. They are the ones that will yell and blast others for not using logic and reason. I am merely wanting them to do the same if they are able. If they put up a straw man fallacy...I will point it out.
      I suggest that if you don't care for it, to begin to learn to live with it.

      October 31, 2011 at 2:15 pm |
    • Bizarre

      Entil'za,

      Ok, how about not using "Straw Men" or "Straw Objects" to *prove* anything either... no, "man is like a seed which falls on this or that kind of ground", or "God" is loving, or pleased or angered or any other human emotion that one can think of?

      October 31, 2011 at 3:20 pm |
    • Entil'za

      @Bizarre- "Ok, how about not using "Straw Men" or "Straw Objects" to *prove* anything either... no, "man is like a seed which falls on this or that kind of ground", or "God" is loving, or pleased or angered or any other human emotion that one can think of?"

      I think you are mixing up discussion of parables or theological ideas with debate. Not to mention you seem to be projecting a style of debate I do not do.
      Now if the topic is on theology...it might be a bit hard not to reference specific text from the Tanakh or the NT. Also...straw men fallacies are not the same as parables. Parables are designed to teach theological lessons. Fallacies such as the straw man are errors in logical debate.

      October 31, 2011 at 6:09 pm |
  16. Locrian

    How about this: Every time you think of a god, you have wasted your time and could have learned something valuable.

    October 28, 2011 at 4:48 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      I am so grateful He wrote about you fools. Leaves me with no doubt that there is no substance backing you.

      Amen.

      October 28, 2011 at 5:26 pm |
    • EvolvedDNA

      Heavensent.. still waiting for what Jesus truth actually is...you throw it about but what exactly is it?

      October 28, 2011 at 9:40 pm |
  17. J.W

    Everyone is too mesmerized by the Halloween article that they do not care about this one. I guess I can write whatever comments I want.

    October 28, 2011 at 4:22 pm |
    • J.W

      Atheists all evolved from monkeys.

      October 28, 2011 at 4:29 pm |
    • fred

      J.W
      Are you aware that humans are not evolved from any primate that is alive today?

      October 28, 2011 at 5:30 pm |
    • Whodathunk

      fred and Primesomething,

      Are you not aware that J.W is being a playful imp, and is just teasing?

      October 28, 2011 at 6:50 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @J.w
      @Fred

      Consider branches of a tree. Apes and humans had a common ancestor. Humans did not evolve directly from apes.

      Believers are fond of exclaiming: "Your great, great, great ... grandfather was a monkey." They have been told this is not true many times.

      But watch: If there was no Garden of Eden and no Adam and Eve...the there was no original sin. If there was no original sin there was no need of a Redeemer. So, why is there Christianity? LOL

      Cheers!

      October 28, 2011 at 7:07 pm |
    • fred

      David Johnson
      You are beginning to scratch the surface of that wonderful treasure we call the Bible. Have you been praying or perhaps someone is praying for you? Back up a little further before the garden you will see the redeemer two other times clearly. Then the loop closes in Genesis 1.

      October 28, 2011 at 9:10 pm |
  18. J.W

    So when I need motivation I should question God, but when I am being tempted my faith should remain strong. I will have to remember that.

    October 28, 2011 at 4:15 pm |
    • David Johnson

      @JW

      We have the Religious Right that reject global warming, over population etc. They believe Jesus will take care of everything.
      Since Jesus will "fix" it, there is no Need (motivation) to do anything about it.

      Morals do not come from a god. Morals are relative. Subjective. If the morals given to you by your god call for an eye for an eye, then thinking and believing in this god will make you follow these morals. Lots of your fellow countrymen will lack appendages.

      There are about 14 different religions, worshiping different gods. Each god has different morals.

      There are about 38,000 different denominations of Christianity in the world. Each denomination believes they understand the wants of god/Jesus best.

      Each, if they dwell on the morals of their god(s), will help them to resist that which is considered wrong by the god they worship. Sometimes the wants conflict. LOL

      I am a Humanist. I believe in the Golden Rule (this did not originate with Jesus). If I dwell on doing right by my fellow man, I resist temptation to deceive or take away ent_itlements from them.

      Since I do not believe in any god, I believe it is my duty to help my fellow man and the planet we all call home.

      Cheers!

      October 28, 2011 at 7:22 pm |
  19. Red Bull

    Highly motivated indiviudals are generally those that believe and understand that they are not here by chance and that they have a purpose in life.
    Sorry CNN, got this wrong again.

    October 28, 2011 at 4:09 pm |
  20. Doc Vestibule

    “It is the mindset that he is always watching and judging that motivates people to behave well.”
    Once you've been indoctrinated with fear of eternal torment, it doesn't take much to prod at the open psychological wound.

    October 28, 2011 at 4:00 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Funny Doc that you atheists always mention fear when living your unrighteous lives. You find fault with Jesus' truth in the Bible because you know it pertains to you! You'd find a big difference of living in His light if you cared to go humble and truly see and hear what He has to say.

      Amen.

      October 28, 2011 at 4:21 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @HeavenSent
      I have no fear of divine retribution as I am not indoctrinated with "obey or burn".
      You judge me as unrighteous – yet you are judged the same way by the followers of other Gods – or even by the 38,000 other sects of your own religion.
      Belief in the supernatural is not needed to live a righteous life of humility, charity and compassion.
      Get over yourself.

      October 28, 2011 at 4:29 pm |
    • JohnQuest

      HeavenSent what makes our lives "unrighteous", just because we do not believe as you do does not mean we are criminals, cheats, killers or have any other amoral characteristic.

      October 28, 2011 at 4:51 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Doc Vestibule, you wrote "@HeavenSent I have no fear of divine retribution as I am not indoctrinated with "obey or burn".
      You judge me as unrighteous – yet you are judged the same way by the followers of other Gods – or even by the 38,000 other sects of your own religion.
      Belief in the supernatural is not needed to live a righteous life of humility, charity and compassion.
      Get over yourself."

      Answer: What I do is called discerning the word of God to you folks that haven't a clue what is His word and what is satan's lies. God judges All. As for the phony religions in the world. I told you, satan's (the father of all lies) offsprings (children of Cain) created all the false beliefs and religions in the world ... added 95% of Jesus' truth, and 5% of his (satan's) lies to cause doubt. As for belief in the supernatural. You show your arrogance in that statement. How would you even know what to argue about on this site if Jesus' truth wasn't written and copied 95% by other false religions?

      If you want to be blotted out. No eternity for you. You have that right. Free will, remember? I can't twist your arm to choose wisely.

      Amen.

      October 28, 2011 at 5:03 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Revelation 20:12-15

      12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
      13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
      14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
      15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

      Revelation 21:7-8

      7 He that over-cometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
      8 But the fea-ful, and un-believing, and the ab-ominable, and m-ur-derers, and who-re-mo-ngers, and sor-cerers, and id-olaters, and all l-iars, shall have their part in the lake which burn-eth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

      Amen.

      October 28, 2011 at 5:32 pm |
    • ....

      HS, (Horse $h'it),
      Your "discerning" is simply your opinions. name ONE thing your god says, that YOU disagree with.

      October 28, 2011 at 6:15 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Is that you under a no handle reality? LOL. You atheists are not only weird, but too funny for words.

      Amen.

      October 28, 2011 at 6:20 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      HS! Welcome back! Maybe now you can answer that question I asked you about the Jewish soldiers. Are their souls in heaven?

      October 28, 2011 at 6:24 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      ...., you wrote "HS, (Horse $h'it), Your "discerning" is simply your opinions. name ONE thing your god says, that YOU disagree with."

      Answer: In all honesty, I don't disagree with anything He's written. I've been frustrated at times by some of His truth, but, when I humble myself to allow His truth to open up to more of His wisdom ... that and growing/maturing and experiencing life, I am then able to comprehend what once frustrated me about what He had written. Again, you disagree with His truth because you are not willing to face His truth and question yourself about your selfish motives. That and maturing ... living more of life than you've already experienced.

      Amen.

      October 28, 2011 at 6:28 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son, you wrote "HS! Welcome back! Maybe now you can answer that question I asked you about the Jewish soldiers. Are their souls in heaven?"

      Answer: I didn't need to rewrite what I've stated many times on these articlers. All souls go back to God who created them. If you want me to post this scripture, I will. Give me time to look it up.

      Amen.

      October 28, 2011 at 6:31 pm |
    • Huh

      "But the fea-ful, and un-believing, and the ab-ominable, and m-ur-derers, and who-re-mo-ngers, and sor-cerers, and id-olaters, and all l-iars,"

      Let’s see…

      Nope, I am not fearful,
      Nope, I am not abominable
      Nope, I am not a murder
      Nope I am not whormonger
      Nope, I am not a Sorcerer
      Nope I am not an idolater
      Nope, I am not a liar

      So your god is a tyrant with an ego problem, love me or burn! Oh, that’s right men came up with this concept because the best motivator is fear. Fear of going to hell…but wait, that’s one of the choices up there so then all Christians will go to hell too.

      October 28, 2011 at 6:32 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Here it is again ...

      HeavenSent

      Typed too fast. That was meant to be articles.

      October 28, 2011 at 6:33 pm |
    • HAHA

      "Give me time to look it up"

      Here you can add it to your collection of bible study websites that you use.

      http://www.biblegateway.com/ 😉

      October 28, 2011 at 6:33 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Tommie, Tom, here it is ...

      Ecclesiastes 12

      1 Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;

      2 While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain:

      3 In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, and the strong men shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those that look out of the windows be darkened,

      4 And the doors shall be shut in the streets, when the sound of the grinding is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird, and all the daughters of musick shall be brought low;

      5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:

      6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed (8735) , or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

      7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

      8 Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.

      9 And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.

      10 The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.

      11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.

      12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

      13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

      14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

      Amen.

      October 28, 2011 at 6:34 pm |
    • HAHA

      "you disagree with His truth because you are not willing to face His truth and question yourself about your selfish motives"

      LOL! So anyone who doesn't view your god the way you do is selfish. Wow your egotism is just appalling.

      October 28, 2011 at 6:41 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Huh, you wrote "But the fea-ful, and un-believing, and the ab-ominable, and m-ur-derers, and who-re-mo-ngers, and sor-cerers, and id-olaters, and all l-iars,"

      Let’s see…

      Nope, I am not fearful,
      Nope, I am not abominable
      Nope, I am not a murder
      Nope I am not whormonger
      Nope, I am not a Sorcerer
      Nope I am not an idolater
      Nope, I am not a liar

      So your god is a tyrant with an ego problem, love me or burn! Oh, that’s right men came up with this concept because the best motivator is fear. Fear of going to hell…but wait, that’s one of the choices up there so then all Christians will go to hell too."

      Answer: Fear of the Lord is the beginning of learning His wisdom. You've just proven by your post you aren't fearful, hence, not wise. I can go further, but, I'm logging off soon. As far as you not liking His truth. Too bad. He created ALL. It's His rules and His ball park. You don't like it, don't worry, you don't need to go through eternity with Him. Enjoy this life, for that's all you're going to get.

      Good night.

      Amen.

      October 28, 2011 at 6:42 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So you're saying that those soldiers did not need to believe that Jesus was the Messiah and died for their sins in order to go to heaven, HS?

      October 28, 2011 at 6:46 pm |
    • HAHA

      "you aren't fearful, hence, not wise. "

      LMAO! LOL! LOL!
      LOL! LOL!
      LOL! LOL!
      LOL! LOL!
      LOL! LOL!

      My cheeks are starting to hurt, LOL!

      Fear: False Evidence Appearing Real.

      October 28, 2011 at 7:04 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Oh, HS? Are you going to answer the question? Do you believe the Jewish soldiers' souls are in heaven? Even though they didn't believe Jesus was the savior?

      Why are you suddenly so reticent? You are always so quick to pronounce sentence on others, why not these soldiers?

      October 29, 2011 at 10:33 am |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.