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 A series of recent conferences have cast a light on gay Catholics and their families.
November 8th, 2011
12:22 PM ET
My Take: Why good Catholics are challenging church line on homosexuality
By Patrick Hornbeck , Special to CNN The Roman Catholic Church has long been a reliable source for one-dimensional storylines: Victims of sexual abuse call for justice. Parishes close as numbers of clergy plummet. Rosary-clad Catholics protest outside abortion clinics. Perhaps nowhere has the storyline seemed more clear-cut than with regard to the church’s treatment of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people and their relationships. Official Catholic teachings describe gay or lesbian orientation as “an objective disorder” and tell those who love their same-sex partners that they possess a “tendency… toward an intrinsic moral evil.” Catholic bishops have been public advocates for laws banning same-sex marriage, and some have sought to prevent LGBT Catholics and their allies from fully participating in the Church’s rituals and activities But neither formal teachings nor bishops’ statements tell the whole story. A series of recent conferences at American colleges reveals the breadth of Catholic approaches to issues of sexual diversity. The conferences, part of an effort called More than a Monologue, have happened at two Catholic universities and two non-denominational divinity schools The events conclusively show that American Catholics are hardly of one mind, nor in lockstep with their bishops, when it comes to same-sex marriage; to rights for LGBT people at home, at work, and in church; or to the ongoing campaign against anti-gay bullying in schools. At Fordham University in New York, a Catholic school, a proud mother of a grown gay son drew a standing ovation when she told a story about discovering the effect of church teachings on her child. Here’s that mother, Deb Word, who has founded a group Fortunate Families to help Catholic families with lesbian daughters and gay sons, in her own words: Fast forward to a family vacation in the Gulf. There were five of us floating—Sean and his wife, Chris, and his dad and me, holding onto each other’s rafts. And I said, ‘I think this is what Heaven is like.’ And Christopher said quietly, “except I won’t be there with you.” “Son, where do you get this stuff?” “Mom, it’s your club. You know the rules.” And if my cradle Catholic child, growing up in a loving family, got this message, then what does Catholic mean in more conservative homes? … And I wonder, why do I stay in a club that my son says is dangerous to his soul?” Another panelist at the event described the freedom she feels as a result of living, within the church’s rules, as a celibate lesbian. A third, a physician in New York City, praised the Catholic tradition for its emphasis on human dignity and social justice, but added: “I am troubled by the fact that I find greater acceptance of myself as a whole person in my professional community as a physician, than I do in the official hierarchy of the church of my family, my childhood, and my life.” At the same time, he refused to let the church off the hook for the part he accuses it of playing in tacitly condoning the bullying of LGBT youth. Last month, at Yale University, a Catholic layman who teaches psychiatry spoke movingly of his attempt to offer church leaders the wisdom of his scientific field, and of his bitter disappointment when his offers were met with silence. And at Connecticut ’s Fairfield University, scholars, clergy, and lay Catholics recently discussed the implications for the church of having many gay and lesbian people, both in and out of the closet, in roles as priests and ministers. These public events have brought into the light the struggles, compromises and choices about meaning and love that many Catholics experience daily. Poll numbers show that while many of their bishops have been stepping up their rhetoric on the issue, only one-in-three American Catholics describe opposition to same-sex marriage as “very important.” Seventy percent support legal recognition for same-sex couples. All of us, Catholic or not, LGBT or not, owe it to ourselves and our fellow citizens to keep these new conversations going. Let’s not to settle for only part of the story. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Patrick Hornbeck. soundoff (2,880 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Editor's Note: Patrick Hornbeck is an assistant professor and associate chair for undergraduate studies at Fordham University.
----All of us, Catholic or not, LGBT or not, owe it to ourselves and our fellow citizens to keep these new conversations going. Let’s not to settle for only part of the story.
The Catholic Church is supposed to be about love and acceptance. Its not. I don't get how two men or two women loving each other is evil. Love is love. Get over it.
Where did you get that the Catholic Church is about love and acceptance?
You speak for the Catholic church?
The love is not wrong, the fornication that takes place because of the love is the sin.
Church and religion is a joke. Religion is the cause of war, hate and brainwashing to get your money in the hat every sunday. If being straight is the way god made us then what it possible that my first crush at the age of 9 was for another boy. It is the WAY WE WERE MADE. When you had your first crush you did not stop ask yourself if it were gonna be on a boy or a girl. You simply had a crush correct. SO DID WE! Millions of other planets out there and we now know that to be a fact and you all think everyone in this world should be like you because of some lame book called the bible. I think it is sad that so many in the world rely on a dumb book over common sense. If their were no bible and no religion in any part our the world we would be more at peace with each other. Religion divides us. If straight folks only knew how many gays are still hiding behind being marred and having families. I have heard a joke before that gay chats online would not exist if it weren't for straight married men. They are FULL of married men and woman. LET people live they're lives already. Put the bible down.
Pray God, well said by all of you. It is so sad that these people (gays and lesbians) have no knowledge of Love, who is God. A desire is not love, especially an abomination.
Dcn Juan
EX: Wow, nothing like taking spiritual guidance from edited, translated bronze age hearsay
Sorry, but there are way too many instances where the church is not about acceptance period. You've been taught to think that is what they want but really near half are in someone's grill pointing fingers.
Not all, but definitely a lot. And more importantly, the leaders back up that thinking. That is where it's a failure. You can a great person on your own. It can happen.
II am very proud of where I get my beliefs as my father our lord guided the bible and all thats in it. I will always lead my life thru it.
ExJw, so your bible says you need to sacrifice an animal. Get on it.
"Kill the bullock before the LORD ... bring the blood, and sprinkle the blood round about upon the altar." 1:5
"Flay the burnt offering; cut it into pieces." 1:6
Lay ... the head, and the fat ... on the fire which is upon the altar: But his inwards and his legs ... burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice ... a sweet savour unto the LORD." 1:8-9
"Kill ... before the Lord and ... sprinkle blood round about." 1:11
"Cut it into his pieces, with his head and his fat ... and burn it ... for a sweet savour unto the Lord." 1:12-13
Bob that is all old testament that was trumped by Christs final sacrifice in himself. Like I had said Jesus does not say to sacrifice an animal and you have shown to not have a clue as to what you speak. The new testamnet removed animal sacrifice. Talk about things you understand. You fear religion because of your lack of understanding.
exJW, no, Jesus said the OT laws still apply. But I ask you, why was animal sacrifice ever called for by your god? At any time?
It's in your nasty book, and it is demonstrably you who does not know the bible very well, not me.
As usual, the atheist knows the bible better than the idiot believer. Same old same old.
exJW, no, Jesus said the OT laws still apply. But I ask you, why was animal sacrifice ever called for by your god? At any time?
It's in your nasty book, and it is clearly you who does not know the bible very well, not me.
As usual, the atheist knows the bible better than the idiot believer. Same old same old.
i think that picture is HOT! 😛
Not as hot as the hell they are headed to!
no,,,it's cool,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Disgusting
Yes. Just two buddies who love each other – very sweet. Now we should suggest to CNN that they have a different one each day in order to train neanderthal heteros to be more accepting of differences to their way of living.
I threw up in my mouth a little bit when I saw that picture.
Come on ,they are just summer students at Hollywood,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Great pic, CNN! Can I puke now!?!?!
If I blundered into someone's bedroom, and two people were "doing it", I'd be embarassed and leave the room. Last night on TV, I was made into a peeping Tom – a bed scene between to lovers. A big, sarcastic, "Gee, thanks, CNN" for the picture shown above.
You've probably had worse things in your mouth.
> "Last month, at Yale University, a Catholic layman who teaches psychiatry spoke movingly of his attempt to offer church leaders the wisdom of his scientific field, and of his bitter disappointment when his offers were met with silence."
Huh? What relevance is this to the rest of the article? Is the Catholic layman gay? Or is he offering to use psychiatry to help gays, and the Church refused?
This article is poorly written; it meanders, without making a really strong point. What is the main idea of your article, Mr. Hornbeck? That recent conferences have "highlighted" gays and lesbians? That is a very weak point. I suggest you take a creative writing class.
Gross like I want to see a pic on the front of my news page of two guys kissing.
No faith wants you because being gay isn't natural, it's disgusting. I do not follow any religion but it doesn't take a genius to figure out if the parts don't fit you're wrong!
So sick of gay people trying to force themselves into society there is a reason why they have been ostracized for thousands of years. It's not natural.
I completely agree, Janie.
Seems like every 2 or 3 days we're force-fed more nonsese about gays. In America today, the more twisted and disgusting you are, the more attention you obtain!
JF, no, actually, you are just stupid and wrong. The news, for all its faults, is closer to representing the world as it is, and you are in stuck in a backwater cesspool.
gays have been around for thousands of years
It is considered unnatural by religion only. Science has long since abandoned this idea in light of factual information.
Just stating a fact, Bob. Don't get your panties in a bunch, dude.
Yeah, like a sodom and gomorrah. Well they were around til God got sick of watching it!
JF,your familiarity with my underwear reveals your hidden tendencies. Thanks for coming out of the closet.
Being gay is natural, as has been shown by science.
Many faiths, some of them even of the Christian variety, understand that and welcome LGBT people.
Bob – Typical gay comment. Stupid, but typically gay. Know what, Bob? You're an idiot!
Pssst, Janie, it actually is completely natural for a small but significant % of the population to be gay. This is seen throughout much of the animal world.
Maybe if you got out of your trailer from time to time, and went to the zoo or got a book from a real library, you'd realize that.
JF, I bet that my IQ is at least 30 points higher than yours. Care to take a test?
Bob, keep beating your chest with your sick, twisted beliefs. Guess you're an authority on everything, huh? Like I care what you say. Mentally dented midget!
Oh don't worry. The parts fit, just not in the places you might be used to. Maybe it's time to open your mind a little!
JF, stop wimping out and answer the challenge: Again, I bet that my IQ is at least 30 points higher than yours. Care to take a test?
As for sick and twisted beliefs, no, those are all yours, little one. So how's that goat burning coming along, that your god wants you to do?
Why do people keep trying to change GOD? you can't he said he is the same yesterday, today and forevermore.
For to love God is to hate SIN PERIOD. No one can serve 2 masters he will love one and HATE the other.
I'll see you at the goat sacrifice. Your god demands it, unless he's changed since the OT. But his son said the laws of the OT still apply, so get your knife sharp. You should know the instructions.
Jesus paid the pride, no need for goats!
Nope. Jesus said the OT laws go on applying. Nice try though. The bible is a b!tch for you Christians, ain't it.
But I have to ask, why was it ever good to burn animals to make god happy? Your book of evil says you need to do it regularly.
No he didn't say to continue animal sacrifice. If that is the case you wouldn't be on this blog cause He would have struck you dead a long time ago.
@Really, did you really just imply that Bob was an animal that should be sacrificed?
Way to show that Christian love, brother. Makes me want to convert right now.
Bob, no where did Jesus say to continue animal sacrifice, end time prophesy says that only in the last days would animal sacrifice again happen in the temple is Israel. Please post scripture if your not just making things up.
Really?, answer my question. No more dodging.
I repeat, why was it ever necessary and considered pleasing to god, to slaughter and burn animals? Your bible has very clear instructions for doing it.
:Leviticus
"Kill the bullock before the LORD ... bring the blood, and sprinkle the blood round about upon the altar." 1:5
"Flay the burnt offering; cut it into pieces." 1:6
Lay ... the head, and the fat ... on the fire which is upon the altar: But his inwards and his legs ... burn all on the altar, to be a burnt sacrifice ... a sweet savour unto the LORD." 1:8-9
"Kill ... before the Lord and ... sprinkle blood round about." 1:11
"Cut it into his pieces, with his head and his fat ... and burn it ... for a sweet savour unto the Lord." 1:12-13
Thanks for proving your lie Bob, your an idiot. All your examples are old testament, a time before Jesus Christ sacrifice. Like I said, I asked you to show where Christ said to continue sacrifice.
I do not believe that when Jesus was talking about OT law that he was including laws such as animal sacrifice. He spoke of most of the Jewish laws as just being tradition. He does reinforce the ten commandments however. I believe that that is what he was referring to by OT law.
Show me where Christ said gays are evil. Go on, show me. OT doesn't apply anymore, right? No animal sacrifices, no gay bashing.
Epistles don't count either, because those weren't Christ, those were Paul who never actually saw Jesus except in his delusions.
Bring on the Gospel quotations!
Shadowflash1522
You do know that none of the authors of the 4 gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke or John ever heard Jesus talk either don't you? Everything that is quoted as being said by Jesus is hearsay...not testimony.
Actually it is likely that Peter was the primary source for Mark, and John was one of the apostles.
AtheistSteve,
Of course it's all hearsay. But it's only fair to give them the benefit of the doubt and at least let them answer from the core books of their religion, namely the Gospels. If any chapter in that massively contradictory book contains even a grain of truth, it's the supposed "personal testimony" of the Gospels.
The defenders of the faith are notoriously silent on this point, though. Does the Old Testament still apply or doesn't it? If the Gospels trump it, then show me where any ONE of them (I'll give you a free pass on internal consistency between all 4) says gay bashing is acceptable. Quotations only; interpretations and extrapolations need not apply.
@J.W.
Actually the 4 canonical gospels are "attributed" to M,M,L and J. The authors are anonymous which makes the "quotations" even more suspect. I mean seriously.. how accurately can you quote verbatum from memory what George Washington said. And not just a few quick sayings but an entire series of books worth. It stretches the boundaries of credibility beyond belief to assert that the words in the Bible were the words Jesus spoke. Perhaps the most general of ideas may have persisted but the Bible is held up as being utterly accurate and interpretation of Bible scripture relies on the actual words presented, any of which is highly suspect.
The trouble with Catholics has little to do with what's written here and everytihng to do with what they consider as "saved". As the woman above stated, they have a tendency of thinking it's a "club" and if you go through specific motions then you're "in" and it doesn't matter what you believe or if you've ever read your Bible (actually many believe that it's only those in a leadership position that are supposed to read the Bible), you're in and that's all there is to it. Get sprinkled with water saying a meaningless prayer and the pearly gates open. If more people actually studied the Bible, they would know that's not how it works.
I am a straight Catholic. But I believe that the Church's official stance on the LGBT community is simple human bigotry, it has nothing to do with God.
it has nothing to do with God? r u sure ?
Yes I am.
I don't think you understand what the Church position is. Rather, you understand something that a biased article posts.
Wow, then as a straight Catholic you really should read your bible cause its pretty clear. Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
What's that mean : has nothing to do with God?
EX.... AMEN! How anyone can say they read the bible and get anything else if a mystery to me!
It has nothing to do with God, because God doesn't exist. Now toss your sick supersti-tions and get on with your life.
You don't spend a lot of time reading your Bible, do you?
you don't exist,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,dude,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I have gone to the best catholic schools all my life. Dont tell me I dont understand!
Dont tell me that society hasnt progressed since the 3 thousand year old book of Leviticus.
Magy you really should have listened then if you went to such fine schools. The bible laid its rules down and they dont progress. Leviticus is only one area of the bible that condems this lifestyle. Read what you claim to know. I read daily and study daily with many other believers and I know my bible, you do not and you talk without knowledge. Your opinion is empty as it does not speak the truths of the bible.
This made me laugh. God made Adam and Eve; Not Adam and Steve. Sure, they should be happy but if they're going against our Lord's teaching and the Bible they should not be teaching it. It's like having The Devil sit with you and cup of coffee telling you about Jesus. IT'S NOT RIGHT AND SHOULDN'T HAPPEN.
The other comments were pretty funny too. Props on the TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLLing you guise <3 ^-^
But anyways, Keep the gays in the closet. The picture was a little much though but it's not an bad as other commenters stated prior.
Unfortunately, Adam and Eve created more problems of their own. Their kids committed incest. Where else would their off spring have come from??
No, wait, Cain and Abel were gay (b4 Cain killed his bro), because they are the only ones mentioned. Hermaphrodites, presumably. It's still incest.
Why did God make a man and a woman ?
To procreate and nothing more. Woman are for duty, men are for pleasure. Says so in the Bible.
wrong,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,read it again,,,,,,,,,,,,
He didn't. There's no god.
But you could just as well ask, why did god make gay men? Or gay animals, for that matter, since there are many of them. Christian dogma says god made everything.
To marry, cheat, and end in bitter divorce. Next question!
"made" everything ,,,,When ?
I love the picture of the two men kissing. What a beautiful site.
I think I'm going to hurl.
Actually it is pretty GROSS
I've never understood this ideal really. As people, they deserve all the same rights, recognition and legal status as anyone else. They should marry and be allowed to do everything that they should legally be allowed too and they should be treated with respect deserving any human.
On the flip side, you're not going to be changing a 2000 year old church. The church doesn't believe in what you do, and they don't have to. They have their views and you aren't going to force them anytime soon.
BINGO!
Well Put Brian. There is a difference between rights as a citizen and rights as a church members – The church is a collection of beliefs and if your beliefs do not align – you should find a church that is is tolerent and accepting.
who cares what the church says anymore? religion is a joke!
that's a joke,,,,,,,,,
Many many people care what religion says, your comment shows that the joke is on you.
and many, many people DON'T....... by the way, it's not MY hypocrisy that turned YOUR religion into a farce.
Im not Catholic, but to say its a farce is rediculous as it is the religion of millions apon millions of people, your view is actually in the minority.
Don't look back you be turned into a piller of Salt...... Good old Lott's wife... Its the same today!!!!!
The Catholic church: insti-tutionalized hate and bigotry, and a safe haven for pedo-philes.
True that.
yboywoner.... Well put.
i dont know why the gays are so bent on forcing themselves in the catholic church. they dont want you, leave! they have the right to refuse your admission like any club, church, assembly etc...why force it? other churches can take you in, why not go to them? im starting to feel this has nothing to do with faith as most dont even go to church or practice. the gays are trying to make a point and i dont see it working...if they say they are so proud and accept themselves, why the need to be accepted by the catholic church? why the longing for acceptance by them? this is a facade!!
Aiezen, That might be OK if the only impact were that gays cannot join the Catholic church, but you know it isn't. The church teaches its sheeple that gays are bad people. Some of those sheeple are in positions of power, and are employers or create laws, that their religious superst-itions impact. You should be able to get the problem now.
Dr Zuess, I grew up going to a Catholic church every Sunday and I don't once remember gays ever even being mentioned. The cardinals and Pope may say things but I don't think it is preached at mass hardly ever. If it was I'm sure my mother would have yanked us right out of there. I'm no longer active in the church but I think you are incorrect.
If you grew up in the Catholic church and your family is in the Catholic church you probably don't want to go to another church. People value their family and their traditions.
I think the world would be a better place to live if everyone pulled their heads out of their butts and stopped following religious teaching altogether. Religion sucks all the joy out of life...especially Catholicism where EVERYTHING that makes human existence worth living is considered a sin. I also find it hilarious how Christians, in general, claim to love their neighbors...but pray for them to change in some way. They all pray for each other. It's a passive aggressive way of saying "I hate your guts because you're different than me". That's pretty much the crux of Christian belief. At least the Muslim extremists are totally at peace with saying they hate everyone and act on it. Christians just silently hate each other and non-believers. Awful people.
Satanism is a religion.
Way to miss the point, really.
Thats very rude, and untrue.
Didn't miss the point. Came from Satan.
Wait a minute – you just said that Catholics are "awful people." because they hate. Yet you give a pass to "Muslims extremists who hate everyone and act on it." The difference you say, is that the Muslims are "honest" about their hate. Well, Hitler was honest about his hate – do you give him a pass too? And what about a Catholic who actually DOESN'T hate – but just believes that certain types of behavior are not healthy and should not be part of their church? Do you believe in freedom of association? Should a private group be forced to accept something they don't wish to associate with?
I think you've come to this conversation with a large set of preconceived biases and a little hatred of your own. Your name says it all – Satan? Is this supposed to offend people or just make us laugh? Are you really being "outrageous" by calling yourself Satan – or just a little childish? I think you know the answer.
I'm for gay rights, I want them to have the same opportunities as the straight community. But for some reason that picture just doesn't sit well with me, I don't know why and I can't help it. I'm not trying to be bigotted but just telling the truth. I guess it's becuase I'm not attacked to that just like a picture of a unhydienic male and female that were making out it would make me feel uncomfortable. Hmmmm, call me a bigot I guess.
Disgusting. If they pushed themselves on Islam they would find their heads sawed off.
Same bigotry. The punishment just varies from one set of religious myth followers to another.
Not agreeing with an un natural act is not bigotry, its just that a their sickness has become so prevelant that many weak and simple individuals choose to accept it, thats a choice but not mine or millions others yet we are labeled for not agreeing with their lifestyle. I dont agree with many lifestyles, I dont wish harm apon them but I wont accept them as normal either.
EXJehovahs Witness, now we can plainly see why you came an EXJehovahs Witness!