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My Take: Why good Catholics are challenging church line on homosexuality
A series of recent conferences have cast a light on gay Catholics and their families.
November 8th, 2011
12:22 PM ET

My Take: Why good Catholics are challenging church line on homosexuality

Editor's Note: Patrick Hornbeck is an assistant professor and associate chair for undergraduate studies at Fordham University.

By Patrick Hornbeck , Special to CNN

The Roman Catholic Church has long been a reliable source for one-dimensional storylines: Victims of sexual abuse call for justice. Parishes close as numbers of clergy plummet. Rosary-clad Catholics protest outside abortion clinics.

Perhaps nowhere has the storyline seemed more clear-cut than with regard to the church’s treatment of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people and their relationships.

Official Catholic teachings describe gay or lesbian orientation as “an objective disorder” and tell those who love their same-sex partners that they possess a “tendency… toward an intrinsic moral evil.”

Catholic bishops have been public advocates for laws banning same-sex marriage, and some have sought to prevent LGBT Catholics and their allies from fully participating in the Church’s rituals and activities

But neither formal teachings nor bishops’ statements tell the whole story.

A series of recent conferences at American colleges reveals the breadth of Catholic approaches to issues of sexual diversity.

The conferences, part of an effort called More than a Monologue, have happened at two Catholic universities and two non-denominational divinity schools

The events conclusively show that American Catholics are hardly of one mind, nor in lockstep with their bishops, when it comes to same-sex marriage; to rights for LGBT people at home, at work, and in church; or to the ongoing campaign against anti-gay bullying in schools.

At Fordham University in New York, a Catholic school, a proud mother of a grown gay son drew a standing ovation when she told a story about discovering the effect of church teachings on her child.

Here’s that mother, Deb Word, who has founded a group Fortunate Families to help Catholic families with lesbian daughters and gay sons, in her own words:

Fast forward to a family vacation in the Gulf. There were five of us floating—Sean and his wife, Chris, and his dad and me, holding onto each other’s rafts. And I said, ‘I think this is what Heaven is like.’ And Christopher said quietly, “except I won’t be there with you.” “Son, where do you get this stuff?” “Mom, it’s your club. You know the rules.”

And if my cradle Catholic child, growing up in a loving family, got this message, then what does Catholic mean in more conservative homes? … And I wonder, why do I stay in a club that my son says is dangerous to his soul?”

Another panelist at the event described the freedom she feels as a result of living, within the church’s rules, as a celibate lesbian.

A third, a physician in New York City, praised the Catholic tradition for its emphasis on human dignity and social justice, but added: “I am troubled by the fact that I find greater acceptance of myself as a whole person in my professional community as a physician, than I do in the official hierarchy of the church of my family, my childhood, and my life.”
Nationally syndicated columnist Dan Savage may be better known for his very public critiques of Catholic leaders than for the year he spent in a high school seminary, or for his Catholic deacon father, or for the baptism he and his husband sought for their son.
But speaking recently at New York’s Union Theological Seminary, Savage described his Catholic family and upbringing, celebrating parts of his Catholic experience.

At the same time, he refused to let the church off the hook for the part he accuses it of playing in tacitly condoning the bullying of LGBT youth.

Last month, at Yale University, a Catholic layman who teaches psychiatry spoke movingly of his attempt to offer church leaders the wisdom of his scientific field, and of his bitter disappointment when his offers were met with silence.

And at Connecticut ’s Fairfield University, scholars, clergy, and lay Catholics recently discussed the implications for the church of having many gay and lesbian people, both in and out of the closet, in roles as priests and ministers.

These public events have brought into the light the struggles, compromises and choices about meaning and love that many Catholics experience daily.

Poll numbers show that while many of their bishops have been stepping up their rhetoric on the issue, only one-in-three American Catholics describe opposition to same-sex marriage as “very important.” Seventy percent support legal recognition for same-sex couples.

All of us, Catholic or not, LGBT or not, owe it to ourselves and our fellow citizens to keep these new conversations going. Let’s not to settle for only part of the story.

The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Patrick Hornbeck.

- CNN Belief Blog Co-Editor

Filed under: Bishops • Catholic Church • Homosexuality • Opinion

soundoff (2,880 Responses)
  1. Pravda

    Okay people you choose to be a gaybe. Yeah you! Be happy with that, the church (and many other people) will never accept it as a normal lifestyle, get over it. Why do you need the church's approval anyway? Is it so you can feel normal and accepted? Be happy, go live your gay be lifestyle, but stop trying to force everyone to accept your lifestyle choice as normal.

    November 8, 2011 at 9:39 pm |
    • wait..

      You totally missed the point.. it is not the church's approval they seek.. it is their disapproval they revolt against.. if the church says "bah, whatever – do what you want" they wouldn't say a word.. but their high horse statements like "thou art wrong" business that irks people out..

      Atleast try to understand what the argument is about before pitching in.. thats the least you can do, ahead of shutting the hell up..

      November 8, 2011 at 9:45 pm |
    • kimsland

      Its the backward church that needs to accept this.
      Gays have already left religion far behind, thank goodness.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:46 pm |
    • Pravda

      Again why would you care what the church says? Unless it bothers you deep downside because you know what you are doing is wrong. There is some moral fiber in you that says "this isn't right".

      November 8, 2011 at 9:47 pm |
    • Liz the First

      Sorry, but you're wrong. did you choose to be straight? people don't choose to be gay. in the first place, who would choose to be a member of a persecuted minority? in the second place, science has found physiological differences in gay and straight men. you can't choose to have a structure in your brain be bigger than someone else's. you can't choose to react to pheromones differently than someone else. it's easier to hate someone if you can convince yourself that they choose to do what you hate them for. being gay isn't a sin, hating people is. gays can't change, bigots can!

      November 8, 2011 at 9:51 pm |
    • Pravda

      I know several people who have left the gaybe lifestyle and now live normal lives with natural children. Did they loose the gaybe gene or did the chemical changes in their brain become undone??

      November 8, 2011 at 9:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Stupid git. Figure out the difference between "loose" and "lose", you moron.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:58 pm |
    • Snow

      Pravda.. you are joking right.. you still don't see the point?? if the church had kept to themselves.. it wouldn't have been a problem.. but guess what the church does about things that it "Judges" as being wrong.. it takes a trumpet and blows it into every ear whether they like it or not.. now that is irritating.. That I do care about..

      you want to be a hypocrite christian and allow L but not G in LGBT, be that for all I care.. but stop yapping that "it is oh so wrong coz god says so".

      November 8, 2011 at 9:59 pm |
    • Pravda

      Again, why do you care?? Unless is bothers you inside that is...

      November 8, 2011 at 10:01 pm |
    • Snow

      F ing troll.. get the f out..

      November 8, 2011 at 10:09 pm |
  2. James

    Catholic's are looking at another (The Earth Is Flat Moment). When In Their Heart They Thought They Were So Right They Imprisoned One Of the greatest Minds Of All time They Have Got To Admit they Were Wrong With Galileo Galilei.And are wrong on No Condoms in H.I.V infected Africa Also The Right Of Gays in The Church

    November 8, 2011 at 9:33 pm |
    • Pravda

      So murderers should have rights in church? Ped0phillys too? I don't see your point...

      November 8, 2011 at 9:34 pm |
    • wait..

      Pravda.. how the heck did you make that jump in logic? There was not a single mention of what you asked in James' comment..

      November 8, 2011 at 9:39 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      The only point you see is when you look at your head in the mirror.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:42 pm |
    • Pravda

      It is a perfect point, they are all vices...

      November 8, 2011 at 9:43 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Says you. Back it up without using the Babble as your 'proof', bozo.

      And here is your lame post:

      TC
      Agreed, that's why it is so strange that atheists believe in magical universe and science appearing out of no where. Atheist agenda predicates their beliefs on what others cannot prove through science – flawed agenda from the beginning.

      I challenged you to explain what was flawed about it. Now you can answer, can't you? Go right ahead. I can hardly wait.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:50 pm |
  3. Snow

    We all know and agree that hurting others is bad.. even bible supports that idea in some cases, at the very least..

    but, let me ask one question.. How does two dudes doing "it" with each other hurt you? why all this yappity yap about something that does not concern you?

    November 8, 2011 at 9:29 pm |
    • Pravda

      Why do you keep bringing God into this?? I don't go to church and two guys packing fudge is discusting. two hot chicks, that is a different story, but two hairy guys?? Ge-rroooooooossssss....

      November 8, 2011 at 9:33 pm |
    • Observer

      "two guys packing fudge is discusting. two hot chicks, that is a different story, but two hairy guys??"

      There can't be a better example of HYPOCRISY than this when criticizing h0mos-xuals. Well done!

      November 8, 2011 at 9:37 pm |
    • Snow

      Haha Pravda.. Its time to brush your teeth and off to bed.. or mom will catch you and you are "gonna get it"!

      November 8, 2011 at 9:41 pm |
    • Pravda

      What if I have two mommies? Which one would you mean? The one that tries to act like a man, or the one that is a woman?

      November 8, 2011 at 9:45 pm |
    • News Flash

      Maybe one of your two mommies can teach you how to spell ?

      November 8, 2011 at 9:47 pm |
    • Observer

      "What if I have two mommies?"

      What if you have 2 grandmothers? Ohhhh. You probably do.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:49 pm |
    • Pravda

      CNN filter you idiot...

      November 8, 2011 at 9:49 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      What if you did? Would that make you less of a pr*ck?

      November 8, 2011 at 9:51 pm |
    • Pravda

      You do know that I am a redneck and my family tree doesn't fork right??

      November 8, 2011 at 9:51 pm |
    • Snow

      Finally.. the truth.. Thanks Pravda..

      Off you go now..

      November 8, 2011 at 10:00 pm |
  4. Pravda

    I know several people who left the gaybe life$tyle and now live normal hetero-$exual lives. I guess the gaybe gene wears off?

    November 8, 2011 at 9:26 pm |
    • kimsland

      What is 'normal' exactly anyway?
      Oh and I replied to you below as well, as CNN states: You are posting comments too quickly. Slow down.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:28 pm |
    • Alien Orifice

      Sure they are Pravda, sure they are. Man you are gullible and stupid.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:29 pm |
    • Pravda

      LOL, yeah they do. They have children NATURALLY and are doing fantastic. See, there is hope for you too!

      November 8, 2011 at 9:31 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      So do gays. Did you think they were sterile? Yeah, you probably did. If you were any dumber, you'd be Keith.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:33 pm |
    • Pravda

      If they were "Born" gaybe why would they leave that lifestyle? Maybe they weren't really gay, just pretending??

      November 8, 2011 at 9:36 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      They don't. They may pretend. They may put on a show for azzholes like you, you troll. But if you can't become gay, neither can gays become straight.

      Prove otherwise. Turn gay right now.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:41 pm |
    • Pravda

      Lol, oh trust me, they were gay. One was an Army Ranger and used to beat the crap out of people that harassed him. He is now married to a lady, they have two kids and are happier than a lark.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:49 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      As if an Army Ranger would even bother to spit on you. Please, don't make me laugh.

      November 8, 2011 at 10:00 pm |
  5. WOT

    There is no such thing as straight people, if there were they would not
    cheat on each other(that is crooked)! LGBT should not care about a bunch of out of the arch people think!

    November 8, 2011 at 9:24 pm |
  6. James

    Vatican needs another Martin Luther To tell them let gays Join The Church and Let them serve openly.

    November 8, 2011 at 9:23 pm |
    • Pravda

      LOL, probably not going to happen...

      November 8, 2011 at 9:27 pm |
    • James

      So In Your Blind Eyes Or Maybe Your Blissful Ignorance You Say No one Is Treated wrongly Or Demonetized And No one Needs Protection

      November 8, 2011 at 9:39 pm |
    • Pravda

      Lots of people are treated wrong by the church. Get over it. I am sure you treat every churchy person with great respect. Why do you need the church's approval anyway? Go be blissfully gay, many people are not going to accept the lifestyle as normal. But you don't care do you?

      November 8, 2011 at 9:42 pm |
    • Alan

      concordo con il tuo commento per non vero che su "trova sul wii il milgeo di se" perch anche sulle altre console escono giochi su binari con in bundle la pistola poi non me ne frega assolutamente niente se il gioco sar alla portata di un pubblico piu' vasto anche perch il porting di re4 ha venduto di piu' di umbrella chronicles

      April 1, 2012 at 12:46 pm |
  7. Alien Orifice

    @Keith

    My name Jose Jimenez

    1. NAMBLA is not a name, it is an acronym
    2. NAMBLA doesn't s-exually assult children, pedo philes do. NAMBLA is a (disgusting) lobby
    3. Ped ophiles are typically heterose xuals attracted to children. A ten year old boy is not a man. It not a hom ose xual issue
    4. I think we can all agree that NAMBLA is disgusting, but they have free speech. Ask the ACLU
    5. Nobody here disagrees with you that child molestion is wrong and horrible and that the perps should be prosecuted so what are you going on about?

    Thank you.

    November 8, 2011 at 9:17 pm |
    • Pravda

      What if they were "born that way" that makes it okay then right?

      November 8, 2011 at 9:20 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      What part of "consensual" do you not grasp, Einstein?

      November 8, 2011 at 9:25 pm |
    • Alien Orifice

      Pravda,
      Child molestation is against the law. It is not consensual. Therefore you cannot compare it to adults have consensual s e x. I sware you are the dumbest person I have seen on the blogs since yesterday.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:28 pm |
  8. Pravda

    Why do gays claims that they were "Born" that way? Atleast other people dealing with pervertted vices can admit that they have a weakness. But nope, we were made this way from birth, and everyone will have to acknowledge that too. We are NORMAL!!! Except, we can not naturally produce offspring. That would be abnormal right?

    November 8, 2011 at 9:15 pm |
    • Observer

      Gays and lesbians can produce offspring so that argument is totally pointless.

      Can you supply your credentials as a mind-reader to show that you have any clue why likely millions of gays would be born that way and lie about it?

      November 8, 2011 at 9:18 pm |
    • Anakaraya

      um... so people who can't produce offspring are abnormal? Old people are abnormal? Young children are abnormal? thats sad...

      November 8, 2011 at 9:19 pm |
    • Snow

      Here is what you love to preach.. "read the bible before you argue" remember that??

      well, if you do not know a gay person.. if you do not have a gay person in your family.. if you have never spoken to a gay person in detail about his reasons.. YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO TALK ABOUT THEIR REASONS...

      November 8, 2011 at 9:19 pm |
    • kimsland

      Evidence suggests that se xual orientation is flexible.
      eg Men who have previously been married to a woman suddenly realize they are gay. I feel it is just choices we make.
      We can all choose whoever we love and who makes us feel loved and cared for in return.
      I don't honestly believe that gays are born that way, and I understand this highly controversial, I feel its just a choice.
      Feelings are obviously without any logic, hence religion.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:25 pm |
    • Pravda

      So it is feelings and not a genetic perver$ion??

      November 8, 2011 at 9:27 pm |
    • Observer

      :"Men who have previously been married to a woman suddenly realize they are gay."

      Not likely. Usually, they realize that the charade for society isn't working for them and admit they are gay.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:28 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      When did you choose to be straight, Prav? You have not answered. Like HS, you're a coward.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:39 pm |
  9. studdmuffins

    Is this a story about priests or laity?

    November 8, 2011 at 9:14 pm |
  10. Snow

    Problem with Christians is.. they only think of themselves in two modes of existence.. (1)Thinking themselves as being superior/dominant.. (2)Thinking themselves as being persecuted..

    Just because you are not being superior does not mean you are persecuted.. get that into your heads.. why can't you just coexist with others without shoving your ideology down your neighbor's throat?

    ..and they talk like they are the modest ones..pfft

    November 8, 2011 at 8:56 pm |
    • Luther

      Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:02 pm |
    • Phil

      How closed minded of you. Its ironic that you say we all have an sense of superiority, and then you post a coincided statement like that.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:04 pm |
    • Luther

      Matthew 10:32 “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. 33“But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven. (Jesus speaking)

      November 8, 2011 at 9:06 pm |
    • Snow

      you are mistaking my disgust as conceitedness.. what gives you the right to knock on my door at 7:00 in the morning to spread your love?..

      Luther.. if you have your own thoughts.. please share.. otherwise.. get the f out of here and join your bible recital club

      November 8, 2011 at 9:14 pm |
    • Luther

      1 Peter 2:23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. 25For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:33 pm |
    • wait..

      Thank you Luther for proving that Christians do not care about what others think about their way of "spreading the word".. you do exactly what others say not to..

      November 8, 2011 at 9:51 pm |
  11. Luther

    Christ Crucified Is God’s Power and Wisdom
    18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

    “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
    the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”[c]

    20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

    26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”[d]

    November 8, 2011 at 8:51 pm |
  12. Alien Orifice

    Why, when you read the Bible, are you not left in awe? For example, look though this small collection of Bible verses:

    Deut 25:11-12
    Genesis 38:8-10
    Deut 21:18-21
    Ex 35:2
    Lev 20:13
    Isaiah 13:13-16
    Exodus 21:20-21
    1 Tim 2:11-12
    Col 3:22-23
    Luke 14:26
    Deut 22:13-21
    Isaiah 40:8

    These verses feel like utter nonsense, don't they? We can find thousands of verses like these in the Bible.
    So we are forced to ask a question: Why doesn't a book written by God leave you with a sense of wonder and amazement? If you are reading a book written by the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving creator of the universe, wouldn't you expect to be stunned by the brilliance, the clarity and the wisdom of the author? Would you not expect each new page to intoxicate you with its incredible prose and its spectacular insight?

    Instead, opening the Bible inevitably creates a feeling of dumbfoundment. Have you ever noticed that? Instead of brilliance, much of the Bible contains nonsense. Several of the topics of the previous proofs, for example where we discussed the Bible's advocacy of slavery, are excellent examples. But they are just the tip of the iceberg. You can open the Bible to almost any page and find nonsense instead of wisdom.

    Why, in other words, is the Bible so useless? Why does the author of the Bible, who is supposed to be God, who is supposed to be all-knowing, know so little? Why is the knowledge of the author limited to the knowledge of the primitive men who wrote the book? If you think about what you are reading in the Bible in the context of an all-knowing God who supposedly wrote it, none of it makes any sense. But if you think about the Bible as being a book written by primitive men like you would find in the remote regions of Afghanistan today, it makes complete sense.

    The reason is because God is imaginary. "God" had nothing to do with the Bible. The Bible was written by primitive men, many of who were obviously insane.

    November 8, 2011 at 8:43 pm |
    • Markus

      You are befuddled because of who you are, not because of who God is.

      November 8, 2011 at 8:46 pm |
    • hippypoet

      thats an awesome post... i normally refrain form posting out of the bible but that was perfection in biblical form!

      November 8, 2011 at 8:48 pm |
    • Snow

      Markus man.. did you hear yourself say that? It sounds like a high school bimbo who says "oh, I am so pretty.. its not my fault others disagree"

      November 8, 2011 at 8:50 pm |
  13. Herby Sagues

    I would rather see people abandoning organized religion and other dangerous fairy tales than organized religion changing their position on this subject (unless they change their position in ALL subjects where they are wrong, but that would be too much to ask).

    November 8, 2011 at 8:40 pm |
  14. DM

    In the end it really doesn't matter what "other" people think. What Deb Word (and people like her) thinks is irrelevant, as the truth is the truth. One can't have opinions in moral matters any more than one can have opinions about what color the sky is.

    November 8, 2011 at 8:39 pm |
  15. Mike Buck

    Now the Gay, Catholic, RepubliCONS should speak up!

    November 8, 2011 at 8:35 pm |
  16. Rich

    God loves all people....;that is IF there is a god.I wonder after Rick Perry and Hermie spoke to him

    November 8, 2011 at 8:23 pm |
  17. kimsland

    It's not just catholics. ALL religious people are sick, ignorant fools. We all know this already.
    I don't discriminate between any of them, religion itself is backward and abusive to children (generally adults understand that religion is nonsense)

    This is why religious beliefs should be pushed out of society and the world.
    Until such time we know better (only science can help here) There is no afterlife for trees or insects or animals or even people. Actually I'll quote a post from the other day (um, please reply with the authors name I forgot to write it down. Anyway I agree with this whole heartedly.

    Religions are our fantasy when reality is too complex to understand. Simple people like simple answers. How did the universe begin ? Simple – God magically made it. Complex – in the Science of cosmology you can learn about how the universe exists and what we have observed about it's beginnings. The simple answer takes 2 seconds. The complex answer takes 10-15 years of dedicated study and even then, you still won't have all the answers you were looking for, but you will have facts, evidence, observation, models that have predictive capabilities, truth and reality. God & Faith are never answers to anything. They are when you want to give up and let your mind enjoy the simple, untruthful fantasy of knowing nothing at all.

    November 8, 2011 at 8:18 pm |
    • fred

      So you believe in taking people's rights away. Great. You'd make a great president.

      November 8, 2011 at 8:21 pm |
    • Herby Sagues

      No, he didn't say anything about limiting people's rights to beleive what they want. You can beleive in Zeus and that would be your problem.
      What he asked is for the repeal of the right to TEACH children nonsense. You are hurting someone when you teach a kid things that are demonstrably false. If you want to teach YOUR children that the world is six thousand years old and that the universe was created with some man-made objects already there, with light aiming at earth as coming from stars billions light-years away, with fossils buried under the sand and all, that's your problem. But propagating such bullcr*p to other people is a very bad thing to do.

      November 8, 2011 at 8:49 pm |
    • fred

      That post is not fred.

      November 8, 2011 at 11:10 pm |
  18. G-D

    Sodomy is a "CHOICE" and not a blaming it on one's DNA. S.e.x.u.alism is a matter of choosing one's intimate practices. It has absolutely nothing to do with DNA. To say differently one is blinded and aloof in their rationalism(s). It takes "sick" people to do sicko practices such as sodomy. 😐 😦 😐

    November 8, 2011 at 8:00 pm |
    • kimsland

      Agreed, religious people are sick

      November 8, 2011 at 8:03 pm |
    • G-D

      Agreed as are those sodomizers who religiously make social stands to declare themselves in public, their private PRACTICES,,,,,,,,,,,

      November 8, 2011 at 8:07 pm |
    • hippypoet

      its ok g-d, we all know your projecting your own se-xual issues on others, but its not right to be mean and stupid – please pick one...

      November 8, 2011 at 8:07 pm |
    • G-D

      hippypoet

      Do U always have to speak in terminologies of pluraility? Stand for yourself and quit speaking for your mobs,,, 😦

      November 8, 2011 at 8:13 pm |
    • fred

      hippy is the queen of copy/paste.

      November 8, 2011 at 8:22 pm |
    • hippypoet

      fred – first if anything kind of royality... i'd be a king, i'm a dude! second, every single post of mine is my own thoughts....deal with the truth, or leave!

      November 8, 2011 at 8:31 pm |
    • smitvict

      The only gays the catholic church likes is the pedophile priests they move around to protect. Most other churches have no issue with gay people and no problem with gay priests. Only the catholics.

      November 8, 2011 at 8:37 pm |
    • Snow

      I suppose you have a degree in genetic engineering to back your claim..

      oh.. oh.. sorry.. you are a redneck.. too complicated a question for you.. here is another you can "maybe" understand.. can you even read a book other than the bible?

      November 8, 2011 at 8:47 pm |
    • Observer

      Since it's likely that most heteros practice sodomy, too, what is your point?

      November 8, 2011 at 9:12 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You must only like vanilla, honey.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:38 pm |
    • Bucky Ball

      Hey Jim-Bob,
      There is no such word as "se'xualism". If you know how, go "Google" it. More straight people practice sodomy, than gay people. You need to move that old red truck off your front lawn.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:40 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Really, G-D, you're a fine example of what happens when cousins marry.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:55 pm |
    • fred

      Any posts from fred tonight are not from fred. Who ever you are be nice.

      November 8, 2011 at 11:08 pm |
  19. hippypoet

    The Buddha, born 563 b.c.
    Zoroasterianism – creation of religion – 500 b.c.

    before jesus came around Abraham's god was mean and anger, jelous and spiteful...but thats not the god jesus preached about...his message was nearly exactly like that of another great preacher – the first Buddha – he spoke about the evils of material wealth and to love one another and to show compassion to all people...Shortly after the Buddha there was a spiritual happening going down in Persia, the Movement was started with a man named Zarathruster – greek translation Zoroaster – the religion that stemed from it...Zoroasterianism, the basic tenets are One great good all powerful god and the evil enemy...no other religion has an enemy of god like Zoroaster did...the first monotheistict religion was Abraham, but the first devil figure was Zoroaster's god...

    everything above is factual based on historic events and facts...below is my view on it...

    so with the good vs. evil gods and the message of love and compassion jesus had the perfect scam...then he died... oops!
    jesus is a thief and a lier. He combined Jewish mysticism and eastern philosphy and then claimed to be the son of god – that takes balls!

    you know what takes true ignorance...believing anything without knowing the truth and history behind it.

    November 8, 2011 at 8:00 pm |
    • fred

      True ignorance is posting the same atheist agenda drivel over and over again. Now, try forming your own thoughts for a change, broken record.

      November 8, 2011 at 8:23 pm |
    • hippypoet

      i am only spreading the truth and i am only doing what every other christian does – i preach what i believe, they too all say the same things...just i am using history and facts WITH opinion and thoughts as my argument!

      November 8, 2011 at 8:34 pm |
    • Snow

      I agree on this with hippypoet.. He is doing EXACTLY what true christians do when they try to spread their word.. They use the same statements and try ingrain them into peoples mind..

      November 8, 2011 at 8:37 pm |
    • hippypoet

      thank you snow... i try to always argue in a form that is understandable for those who i will be arguing with.... in this case, i speak slowly and simply..anything else makes them confused and then angry... i also try to argue the way they argue to make it more fun for me..

      November 8, 2011 at 8:56 pm |
    • fred

      You're spreading mindless drivel. You copy and paste the same filth over and over and you act like a bi-polar child. First you act like an atheist, then you say things you think believers would say. Earlier you said that it was a choice to be gay, and then you say the opposite. Do us all a favor and stop being a troll.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:51 pm |
    • fred

      These posts are not from fred. I do not speak in that manner. I think it's time for me to move to another site.

      November 8, 2011 at 11:07 pm |
  20. Shamefulness

    TC- But wait, didn't you say prayer works? Indicating that if you PRAY for something, it will WORK, right? Sniff sniff...I smell hipocrisy!

    Bwahaha! Ay Dios mio.

    November 8, 2011 at 7:55 pm |
    • frank West

      Prayer works if we pray for Gods will.

      November 8, 2011 at 8:07 pm |
    • hippypoet

      no frank... the power of suggestion is what works...so if you think it will help it will., its called the placbo effect! i'm sure you've heard of mind over matter.

      November 8, 2011 at 8:12 pm |
    • John Richardson

      So God's will will be thwarted if you didn't pray?

      November 8, 2011 at 8:14 pm |
    • Herby Sagues

      Nothing fails like prayer.
      – Dan Barker.

      November 8, 2011 at 8:41 pm |
    • fred

      Prayer does in FACT work.

      November 8, 2011 at 8:49 pm |
    • hippypoet

      once again fred...your a moron, deal with it please, grab a book or something not the bible... ok now back to topic – its all in your head, the power of suggestion is what works...so if you think it will help it will., its called the placbo effect! i'm sure you've heard of mind over matter. you fred need help, please seek help sooner rather then later, for the betterment of mankind!

      November 8, 2011 at 8:59 pm |
    • Alien Orifice

      Fred, prayer does not work and that is easily provable.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:11 pm |
    • Snow

      I pray with all my heart and soul that god would please, pleaseee give fred a mind to think on his own..

      nah.. sorry fred.. I tried.. didn't work!

      November 8, 2011 at 9:17 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      If it's a fact, freddy, then you could prove it. You cannot. In fact, studies have shown that praying does not alter the course of disease.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:27 pm |
    • fred

      fred
      Thank God you speak my mind because I did not say that or make that post. That said, prayer works for this fred. My proof is I keep a list of prayer from the various groups I facilitate. I keep the list to encourage myself when prayer seems forever to get answered and to show others when they lose hope. I have 4 people over the age of 55 looking for work for over a year now while God appears delayed in answering those prayers. Our church is running out of money helping many who are out of work yet we wait and pray. Regardless of the outcome we will see answers some may be very painful and God does not always answer with a yes.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:41 pm |
    • fred

      tomtom
      Studies on prayer do not work because no one knows how to set up a true double blind study. Your prayer is influenced anytime you are being observed for the purpose of testing God.
      Personal experience and doctors I visit tell me things happen they cannot explain. I honestly never pray for a new leg for someone that had an amputation. Lack of faith I will admit on my part yet, I believe if I had faith it would be possible.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:51 pm |
    • fred

      hippy
      Studies have shown that your and you're do not have the same meaning.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:52 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Then stop braying about having proof that prayer 'works'. You don't have any. You have faith. That's all. That's all any of you have and if you'd stop attempting to pretend otherwise, maybe people wouldn't be so disgusted (and by the way, Pravduh, that's the correct spelling) by your braying.

      November 8, 2011 at 9:53 pm |
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.