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 A series of recent conferences have cast a light on gay Catholics and their families.
November 8th, 2011
12:22 PM ET
My Take: Why good Catholics are challenging church line on homosexuality
By Patrick Hornbeck , Special to CNN The Roman Catholic Church has long been a reliable source for one-dimensional storylines: Victims of sexual abuse call for justice. Parishes close as numbers of clergy plummet. Rosary-clad Catholics protest outside abortion clinics. Perhaps nowhere has the storyline seemed more clear-cut than with regard to the church’s treatment of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people and their relationships. Official Catholic teachings describe gay or lesbian orientation as “an objective disorder” and tell those who love their same-sex partners that they possess a “tendency… toward an intrinsic moral evil.” Catholic bishops have been public advocates for laws banning same-sex marriage, and some have sought to prevent LGBT Catholics and their allies from fully participating in the Church’s rituals and activities But neither formal teachings nor bishops’ statements tell the whole story. A series of recent conferences at American colleges reveals the breadth of Catholic approaches to issues of sexual diversity. The conferences, part of an effort called More than a Monologue, have happened at two Catholic universities and two non-denominational divinity schools The events conclusively show that American Catholics are hardly of one mind, nor in lockstep with their bishops, when it comes to same-sex marriage; to rights for LGBT people at home, at work, and in church; or to the ongoing campaign against anti-gay bullying in schools. At Fordham University in New York, a Catholic school, a proud mother of a grown gay son drew a standing ovation when she told a story about discovering the effect of church teachings on her child. Here’s that mother, Deb Word, who has founded a group Fortunate Families to help Catholic families with lesbian daughters and gay sons, in her own words: Fast forward to a family vacation in the Gulf. There were five of us floating—Sean and his wife, Chris, and his dad and me, holding onto each other’s rafts. And I said, ‘I think this is what Heaven is like.’ And Christopher said quietly, “except I won’t be there with you.” “Son, where do you get this stuff?” “Mom, it’s your club. You know the rules.” And if my cradle Catholic child, growing up in a loving family, got this message, then what does Catholic mean in more conservative homes? … And I wonder, why do I stay in a club that my son says is dangerous to his soul?” Another panelist at the event described the freedom she feels as a result of living, within the church’s rules, as a celibate lesbian. A third, a physician in New York City, praised the Catholic tradition for its emphasis on human dignity and social justice, but added: “I am troubled by the fact that I find greater acceptance of myself as a whole person in my professional community as a physician, than I do in the official hierarchy of the church of my family, my childhood, and my life.” At the same time, he refused to let the church off the hook for the part he accuses it of playing in tacitly condoning the bullying of LGBT youth. Last month, at Yale University, a Catholic layman who teaches psychiatry spoke movingly of his attempt to offer church leaders the wisdom of his scientific field, and of his bitter disappointment when his offers were met with silence. And at Connecticut ’s Fairfield University, scholars, clergy, and lay Catholics recently discussed the implications for the church of having many gay and lesbian people, both in and out of the closet, in roles as priests and ministers. These public events have brought into the light the struggles, compromises and choices about meaning and love that many Catholics experience daily. Poll numbers show that while many of their bishops have been stepping up their rhetoric on the issue, only one-in-three American Catholics describe opposition to same-sex marriage as “very important.” Seventy percent support legal recognition for same-sex couples. All of us, Catholic or not, LGBT or not, owe it to ourselves and our fellow citizens to keep these new conversations going. Let’s not to settle for only part of the story. The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Patrick Hornbeck. soundoff (2,880 Responses)« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 Next »
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The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.  |
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Editor's Note: Patrick Hornbeck is an assistant professor and associate chair for undergraduate studies at Fordham University.
The Catholic church is a gay organization. Jesus was raised in a compound where women were cleaning ladies and were not allowed to stay overnight. Also they took in kids of 2 years old or less. Not all priests are gay, some of them are pedophiles and some liked women. The ban on marriage was for financial reasons in the feudalist system: New priest would bring land into the church and land would never leave the church – no legitimate sons.
You can be gay, that's cool and all.
You can be Catholic. No problem.
You can not be gay and Catholic. They're mutually exclusive.
Sorry.
Unless you are a priest or higher up.
Religious beliefs change every few years.
Seems the world is round now and we are not the center of the universe any longer.
Strange how science always wins.
Nonsense. You can even be a child molester and still be a Catholic.
Small words spoken by a small mind.
Zippy, just like you cannot be a "priest" and a "pe-do-ph-ile". They truly are mutually exclusive. Sorry.
Romans 8:5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6The mind of sinful mane is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you.
I have a bible too. Now try speaking with your own voice, rather than someone elses.
Luther,
Since you're quoting from the Bible, you must have the TRUE one. Which of more than 20 versions in English is correct since they all disagree with each other?
Observer, Well, this particular version of @Luther's has a typo in it 🙂 Tsk, tsk, Holy Spirit...
"For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." Mat: 19:12
I hope he quotes the part about the dragons and unicorns! That's my favorite part!
The gay issue! It is a true blessed event when CNN writes on it. Highlighting for all to see the in-nate hate that the zealots holds in their minds.
They love to attack straight out that "you are not born gay" and that "it is a sin to enjoy your s-e-x-uality". All your retorts are rubbish in this area. Simply because you do not know conclusively about this particular aspect of living. Just face it, you bunch have come to enjoy your righteous bigot ways and are NOW threatened that such people are AMONG your religion.
They won't turn you into one of them by their touch. Being around a gay person will not make you gay. They do not force you to have a-n-a-l _ s-e-x. Nor will they invite you to s-u-c-k on their private pieces! The only changes that they are pushing for is in the MANNER of the LAW. For equality!
When you religious people force your acceptance of religion by trying to change the governing laws for all of society people will react negatively. Gay people and the LGBT community forcing the laws to change ARE NOT GOING TO FORCE YOUR S-E-X-UALITY to change. Understand your ignorance of where the change is being sought.
When you religious zealots push your belief into the laws YOU ARE AFFECTING THE MINDS of people.
When the gay community is forcing change into our laws they CAN NEVER AFFECT YOUR BODY.
NO LAW will ever be written where EVERYBODY IS REQUIRED TO HAVE A S-E-X CHANGE.
It is time you zealots realize how much of an a-s-s-h-o-l-e you are for carrying on with your bible hate.
Yes well said.
But the gay debate ended many decades ago. Seems its quite normal and accepted now, in real life or on TV or in music or anywhere.
Churches that do not accept this are obviously not modern society people and should therefore go live in the Middle East.
Quite true.
Although the hate is still ever as fervent in the eyes of the zealots that still seek to denial that gay people are people. All those religious d-o-u-c-h-es still want to believe that they can preach them to hell.
Romans 6:19 I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life inb Christ Jesus our Lord.
A 'gay Catholic' is as much an oxymoron as a Log Cabin Republican.
It just doesn't compute.
If you believe that, then you don't understand what a sin is. Given your understanding, nobody who has ever sinned (i.e. everyone in history) is allowed to be a Catholic.
But pedophile priest and Catholic computes.
@Tom, Tom, @Observer and whoever else cares,
Heaven Sent answered your question on page 4:
"My answer would be ... I don't know. What human knows who repented to Jesus for their sins of the flesh before they took their last breath. Only God knows what is in a person's heart ... to love and follow His truth."
Never thought I would come to her rescue, but this particular badgering is getting old. There are so many other things to corner her about...
*sorry, wrong place...
Over It,
Thanks. She still avoided the answer for a loong time. Could have said "don't know" many times in dozens of fewer words.
Sad that you have to answer for someone unable to answer for themself.
Yes praise Allah.
Oh, you are talking about that other ludicrous religion.
Wake up silly, there is no god.
Wake up (said again, you never know it might work)
I feel sorry for religious believers.
A wasted life believing in rubbish
A wasted life going to church and spreading crazy unfounded word of a simple dead man.
A wasted life of thinking that you are going to heaven one day so who cares about this life.
Religious people are sick, and require mental health checks.
Prove me wrong fools, prove me wrong.
You posted this same lame rescue twice.
Observer, you wrote to Over It, "Thanks. She still avoided the answer for a loong time. Could have said "don't know" many times in dozens of fewer words. Sad that you have to answer for someone unable to answer for themself.:"
Answer: Another fool that is so full of himself and refuses to check back through the article to see what was written. I answered Tommie Tom's ridiculous question in the article of the Jewish Chaplains weeks ago. Just because you guys can't hold water on any conversation doesn't mean I buy into your nonsense with the babble that you write.
Amen.
HS,
"Answer: Another fool that is so full of himself"
– Matthew 5:22 "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with their brother or sister will be in danger of judgment. If they say to their brother or sister, ‘You idiot,’ they will be in danger of being condemned by the governing council. And if they say, ‘You fool,’ they will be in danger of fiery hell.
Sorry to hear that. Don't worry. If Jesus's words are true, you won't be alone.
Keep up the religious HYPOCRISY. Typical.
If Jesus' words are true, you'll have lots of company.
HS is a liar. She didn't say "I don't know" until NOW. She's done nothing but post scripture and lies about having answered.
Everyone here knows exactly what you are, HS.
The real HeavenSent always has 'answer' in their posts...any other post by heavensent is fake. The real HeavenSent seems to think she has all the answers b/c her buybull told her so. She's about 6000 years old given her vast knowledge of this vicious creature she says loves/speaks to her and that she is stupidly sure exists. In reality the real HeavenSent is a deluded old biatch without a working brain.
Matt 19:11Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
What a sick abomination... what reproach put on God by religion..
Yep, it's an abomination like eating shellfish.
Vomit.
different picture please.
i agree. i want to see a full body shot striped of cloths and all oiled up
Absolutely. There should be a bit more tongue action. And fewer clothes.
Pravda is a troll. A pretty good one though! I wonder who it really is. Sleep well sleeze bag.
He's gay; he's here because he gets off on it.
My husband is into men. That's why he married me.
Both of you act like trolls here. I'll be reporting every single one of your posts. All of the time you've spent typing out all of your insults will be a complete waste. All that effort for nothing. Good bless!
Amen.
Phony heavensent, I have to admit, your post was funny.
Amen.
I respect everyone's beliefs. However, this world would be so much better off without religion. It just motivates way too many stupid people to promote more prejudice and hatred.
Romans 12:9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13Share with God’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.
14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.c Do not be conceited.
17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”d says the Lord. 20On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”e
21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Without someone to be the evildoer the catholic church loses its purpose... and donations.
Well, goodnight all, it was fun arguing with you. To the lesbs – kiss your foxy curvy babe for me, to the gaybe guys, dude – go find a curvy babe!
Go get in bed with your gay lover, honey. You're as transparent as cellophane and only half as deep.
Lol, sorry, my babe has b00bys!
You make no sense, but good night.
Only when you blow her up.
Like my g-friend that is...
Aww, looks like I must have hit a nerve. Poor widdle fella.
I'm a See You Next Tuesday of the highest and almighty order.
Ok folks, let's bring the lights down a bit....oh yeah.....and let's slow down the jam and get in the mood......mmmm hmmmmm, now that's what I am talkin' about. I'm about to testify to all you brothers and sisters and I want you listen up now...here goes....
I have had many friends over the years (I am 46) who are Gay. Normal dudes and gals, they just like the cok and not the pusay.....or vica versa.
They were born that way. NO doubt about it. They have suffered a great suffering at the hands of society and their families. But they are who they are and they can’t change it and who cares. They have to live their lives in the face of prejudice.
Now, I have also been in show business my whole life, and that is a whole different world. Sh-it man dam near everyone is que er. These folks gravitate to a place that accepts them. That is their family. I embrace them.
You bigots and Gay Bashers make their lives a living hell, but they move on. They have more guts and personal fort itude than you will ever have. They carve out lives for themselves against the odds.
Those of you who continue to live in the dark ages, I doubt there is any hope for you. But just go away! No one cares that you don't "approve" of the Gay lifestyle. You don't even know what that means. You have never even seen it. It is actually kind of cool.
My two children are being raised to love everyone and that everyone is equal and to think critically about the world around them. They are awesome, and I wish the grown-ups would catch up to the kids.
I have often wondered how much we would lose if we ever took all the gay people out of the performing arts or all the Jews out of science. We would be back in the Dark Ages.
No one is born gay. Sorry, I have seen enough people walk away from that lifestyle choice that the theory no longer holds any water. Are gaybes persecuted by the church more than other vices? The answer is yes, I don't know why, but they are. But why do gaybes care? Go live your gaybe lifestyles in ignorant bliss and stop trying to get everyone to accept your choices, because we don't and never will.
You idiot. You have no clue what these people you 'claim' to know really feel. You have no idea whether their marriages are a complete sham. Only a moron would believe that you know anyone else beyond the superficial.
Really, Pravduh. Even you can't be that brain-dead.
I suspect you are, in fact, nothing more than a troll who is either gay or is in favor of gay rights, and that you're posting your inane comments to arouse reactions.
Get a hobby, moron.
Colin dude,
Without que-ers, there is no broadway, no TV, no movies, no ballet, no opera, much less music and obviously, no mimes.
Hey Pravda; so you weren't born straight? You chose to be straight? Idiot!
Believe me if I had a choice I would not be gay, if there is a god he sure is a ****head. He makes us one way and then prosecutes it. Well God, that's your down **** fault shoulda thought about that before ya made me and others like me gay, so get off my back and make good use of your time. Go help some people or prevent some disasters.
I've been duped! These comments have aroused my inner troll and therefore I shall waste time slinging insults and accusations all the while pretending to be educated!
Finally! Honesty from TOM TOM! Make a note of it!
Hey! I think Martin just "outed" himself as the person who trolls using Tom's name.
What you wrote is truth.
I'm impressed a Human still has the nerve and the courage these days.
Fantastic.
Thank you, Alien. I work in graphic arts and know/have known many gays and lesbians as well. Again, it's a field where most people find acceptance. Not one of them chose their orientation. The truth is that there is more proof that being gay is innate than there is in the existence of any god, or indeed all gods put together.
On the other hand, nobody is born believing in god. One has to be trained to be religious. Religion teaches who to hate and how to worship, without a single ounce of proof that their god or their heaven or hell actually exist. It's articles like this that really bring out the fact that religion is a harmful relic of ancient humanity. It's responses like Pravda's that bring out the fact that christians are some of the worst people in the world. Frankly, I would rather spend eternity in hell with the rest of the damned than spend a second in heaven with some of the people who post here.
Alien, no one cares how old you are. But, based on the hate in half of your posts, the age does shed light on why you are so bitter and most painfully immature. Every once in a while you try to say something meaningful but it comes out like an angry child, just as this post of yours is seasoned with half-wit remarks that could have been done without.
tallulah13, you wrote "Thank you, Alien. I work in graphic arts and know/have known many gays and lesbians as well. Again, it's a field where most people find acceptance. Not one of them chose their orientation. The truth is that there is more proof that being gay is innate than there is in the existence of any god, or indeed all gods put together.
On the other hand, nobody is born believing in god. One has to be trained to be religious. Religion teaches who to hate and how to worship, without a single ounce of proof that their god or their heaven or hell actually exist. It's articles like this that really bring out the fact that religion is a harmful relic of ancient humanity. It's responses like Pravda's that bring out the fact that christians are some of the worst people in the world. Frankly, I would rather spend eternity in hell with the rest of the damned than spend a second in heaven with some of the people who post here."
Answer: A re-run of Oprah's show about a husband that was on the low down ... coming out and ACTING more gay now that he and his wife divorced. There was a discussion with her staff so she asked gay staffers if this was an appropriate remark?
Too funny, even the queen of darkness knew gay folks were ACTING.
Amen.
HS,
"Answer: A re-run of Oprah's show about a husband that was on the low down ..."
So your proof of ANYTHING is one guest on Oprah? LOL LOL.
I think this is a fake Heaven Scent, trying to make HS look bad. The funny thing is, Heaven Scent doesn't need help to look bad.
1 Corinthians 6:12-20
12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for for-ni-cation, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an har-lot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that com-mit-teth for-ni-ca-tion sin-neth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
Amen.
Amen.
Oh, good, here you are again. Do you think the souls of those Jewish chaplains are in heaven, HS? Or did they go to hell because they didn't believe what you do? Even though they did more good in a single day than you've done in your entire wasted life?
look whos back. its hs the handle thief.
Tommie, Tom, you spewed onto this blog "Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son
Oh, good, here you are again. Do you think the souls of those Jewish chaplains are in heaven, HS? Or did they go to hell because they didn't believe what you do? Even though they did more good in a single day than you've done in your entire wasted life?"
Answer: I've answered your question multiple times on this same post. Do you know how to review previous pages? If not, you can take a class to learn how to scroll backwards.
I'm still praying for your soul to stop being so miserable.
Amen.
Hippy dippy, stealing handles and posting as another belongs to you non-believers.
Amen.
No, you haven't. You haven't answered it at all–ever. When are you going to do so? Because I'm not going to stop asking until you answer honestly.
I plan to be around for a while.
It's a simple question and you could answer it with one simple "yes" or "no" or even "I don't know." But you won't, because you're a cowardly little hypocrite.
Thanks for proving it over and over.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
You always know you've won an argument when the opponent is AFRAID to answer simple Yes or No questions.
Yup. And HS is scared to death to answer because she knows how she'll look when she does.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son,
Yes. They are always afraid to answer when they know it will blow a big hole in their delusions. They think they can fool everyone but can't even fool themselves.
She's predictable, I'll give her that. She burps up a bible verse or 13 instead of answering and then signs off with her little version of a one-finger salute, "Amen".
Heaven Sent,
Corinthians (11:6) also says “For if a woman does not cover her head (while praying), let her also have her hair cut off”.
What was your point or wasn't there one?
One finger is all you're worth.
Amen.
Tommie Tom, read Luke 16 after you stop pretending to be me using my handle.
Amen.
HS never really answers any questions. She just spews biblical doggerel and hateful rhetoric, then expects others to remember her nonsense. She drives more people away from christianity then she invites. In her own off-putting way, she is a very good friend to atheism.
Tommie Tom, you're officially a stalker.
tallulah13, you babbled "HS never really answers any questions. She just spews biblical doggerel and hateful rhetoric, then expects others to remember her nonsense. She drives more people away from christianity then she invites. In her own off-putting way, she is a very good friend to atheism."
Answer: I answer your mundane questions... I can't help that you have no eyes to see nor ears to hear His wisdom. That too is written in the Bible. Actually, anything you fools can muster up to ask ... has already been written thousands of years ago in His truth (the Bible).
Amen.
"For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." Mat: 19:12.
That the kingdom of heaven would care, much less be pleased, that people castrate themselves means it must be one messed up place.
I AM GAY
Get use to it.
Pravda, get used to what? That this is the only life you wish to live and there will be no eternity for you?
Amen.
so am i. im a bottom.
haha.
Be gay all you want. It's still a filthy, evil way to live and you will never get my personal acquiesance that your "lifestyle" is acceptable. It never was, and never will be.
LOL, I didn't write that, some amazingly intelligent person copied my name. Wow, talented....
HS, were the Jewish chaplains sent to hell? Come on, you know you have an opinion. Why not share? Or are you too much of a coward?
Hey, wait a minute, wasn't Jesus a jew? Why would the chaplain go to hell?
Ask HS, idiot. The two of you are equals.
I am a tall black Jew, I doubt it.
I have absolutely no desire for an eternal life.
Well, what about it, HS? Are the souls of the Jews who died in the camps in hell along with those of the good chaplains?
Go ahead, oh fount of all wisdom. You spew your crap all over these boards, why can't you answer this question?
Pravda, you wrote "Hey, wait a minute, wasn't Jesus a jew? Why would the chaplain go to hell?"
Answer: Jesus was a known Judean.
Amen.
Oh, so you know something, then, HS? Well, then what's stopping you from telling us where the souls of the Jewish chaplains ended up?
Don't worry. I know you'll just stall and splutter and pretend you've answered somewhere else,or you'll post some verses that you can pretend are an answer. Don't disappoint me, now. Go ahead and do what you always do.
jsfraptor26,
"Be gay all you want. It's still a filthy, evil way to live"
Better than being an ignorant mindless bigot living in hatred.
It is written that Jesus himself laid with man and boy servant.
Isn't it interesting that the same people who freely express such intolerance of gays under the guise of religion are in fact praying to a GAY man.
Tommie Tom, again .... read Luke 16 and see for yourself where every who's left this earth is.
Amen.
Richard Lederer (Anguished English) Quote – There once was a time when all people believed in God and the church ruled. This time was called the Dark Ages.
James, your generation is the end times generation where darkness rules.
Read the Book of Revelation (which means to reveal God's truth) to find out that your generation means the end of the 2nd earth age ... bringing in the 3rd and final earth age. And your soul? Is it going to be among a true follower of Jesus' truth so you can dwell with Him through eternity?
Two choices with that free will of yours.
Choose wisely, your soul depends on it.
Amen.
Oh, our generation is the "end times"? Gosh, where have I heard that before? Oh, right, from that moonbat who predicted the rapture twice this year.
Yet you're still stuck on earth, HS. Guess god doesn't want you in heaven any more than he wanted those chaplains.
Tom, you wrote: "Oh, our generation is the "end times"? Gosh, where have I heard that before? Oh, right, from that moonbat who predicted the rapture twice this year.
Yet you're still stuck on earth, HS. Guess god doesn't want you in heaven any more than he wanted those chaplains."
Answer: I haven't predicted the time or date of the rapture.
Amen.
Tommie Tom, get off the crack pipe and stop using my handle to spew your perverted insight of life.
Amen.
Yep, we're in the "end times". Been WRONG for 2,000 years though.
Phony heavensent, there is no scriptures pertaining to rapture in the Bible. That is a man made belief.
Amen.
George Bernard Shaw Quote: The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one
James, it must be nice sleeping on everyone's couches they tossed out on the porch. A drunkard will tell you anything as long as your willing to listen.
Amen.
Annnnnnd the whoooshing sound you hear is the point of that quote flying waaay above your head, HS.
JB Shaw was a drunk Tommie Tom.
Funny how you listen to man but not to God.
Amen.
Gonna answer the question about the chaplains, or just keep stalling, HS?
I know what Shaw was, you moron. You still fail to grasp the point. Try harder-you might get it if you strain a bit.
Tommie Tommie Tom Tom, filled with lots of hate. You think you'll ever get a point across by calling me names? I just ignore your questions because of how spiteful you are. I know it bothers you. You're too dense to understand this basic form of psychology.
Amen.
Tommie Tom's on the war path again stealing my handle as the phony heavensent to spew his venom.
P.S. at least you used the space bar for the Amen.
Pray for the sun to come up, for there to be air to breath that day, that it will rain at least once that year, that folks will light fireworks on the 4th of July, that nightfall will eventually come, that the light will turn green...etc, and I can assure you, all of your prayers will be answered. Never take a risk when praying, God hates that.
God hates evil. God is not man, and He will hold the unrepentant guilty accountable. Remember that.
Well, jsf, since you are such an 'expert', maybe you can help HS with my question. There was a story on these boards recently about a service honoring some of the Jewish chaplains who served during WWII. HS was all about praising them. Yet she won't man up and answer my question, which is: are the souls of those good men in heaven, even though they did not accept Jesus as a savior? Or are they in hell along with Hitler?
HS is too cowardly to give an answer. She dodges the question and runs away every time I ask. Can you help her out?
The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.
Psalm 58:3
The Lord has made all for Himself, yes, even the wicked for the day of doom.
Proverbs 16:4
That's why Christians tell folks to repent, ask Jesus for forgiveness, then sin no more.
It is the sin of pride within an arrogant person who refuses to do what Jesus asks.
Amen.
See? I knew HS would run off. It works every time.
Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son, the left arrow directs you back to your numerous questions on this same topic that I've answered. I know it's too difficult to follow simple directions. Snooze, you loose.
Amen.
jsfraptor26,
No one believes every word of the Bible. They just pick and choose whatever agrees with them and ignor the rest.
That's why you pick on gays while ignoring the Golden Rule.
Nope, no sale, you liar. I've read all your non-answers already, you phony old fraud. Either you can answer here or anyone reading will see you for what you really are.
Keep on digging that hole for yourself, HS. Or just answer the question with a 'yes' or a 'no'.
Shouldn't be that hard. You always have all the answers. Why not show us all how much you know? Are the souls of those Jewish chaplains you praised in hell?
I knew you'd pull your usual silly dissembling, HS. Thanks for living up to your execrable reputation as a fraud and a hypocrite.
I'll ask you again next time you're lurking around like a weasel.
Observer, you wrote to jsfraptor26 "No one believes every word of the Bible. They just pick and choose whatever agrees with them and ignor the rest. That's why you pick on gays while ignoring the Golden Rule."
Answer: Keep repeating this nonsense and you will convince yourself of anything.
By the way, it takes a lifetime to understand what is written in the Bible. No one knows the entire Bible. God reveals His truth to different generations who seek His wisdom. And you? Have you even started researching His truth or do you just read your God bashing sites and think you know His truth?
As for picking on gays. You gays pick on yourselves. I haven't read any Christian bashing gays on this site. I've read Christians trying to have a discussion about carnal mindsets versus spiritual mindsets that Jesus' teaches. Again, non-believers perceptions do not hold water.
Amen.
Heaven Sent,
You just wasted 30 words to AVOID answering a yes or no question. Didn't work.
Why not answer Tom Tom's SIMPLE yes or no question? What are you AFRAID of? Just ONE word. Can't be that hard.
HeavenSent,
You proved my point. Not one word about the Golden Rule in dealing with gays. Well done.
Tommie Tom, I do believe you are having a breakdown. I'm skipping over your nonsense putz.
Amen.
Heaven Sent,
Good job. You only used 15 words to AVOID the yes or no question you were AFRAID to answer. Tom Tom's only looking for ONE WORD and you can't handle it. Wow.
Observer, I have answered questions time and again but since your people are so full of rage and spite, you fail to see them. This is not my fault. You have wasted countless words trying to insult me but what do you have to show for it? I bet you show your only friend via screenshot how much of an internet rogue you are. "Oh look what I told HS! Yeah! I sure got her good!"
It must feel wonderful to think you got the better of someone on the internet. I trust you'll all be adding this blog to your resumes.
Amen.
@Tom, Tom, @Observer and whoever else cares, (trying again...)
Heaven Sent answered your question on page 4:
"My answer would be ... I don't know. What human knows who repented to Jesus for their sins of the flesh before they took their last breath. Only God knows what is in a person's heart ... to love and follow His truth."
Never thought I would come to her rescue, but this particular badgering is getting old. There are so many other things to corner her about...
Phony heavensent, I'm logging off now ... plus, I don't need your help answering the non-believing carnally minded fools on this site.
Amen.
Over It, thanks for the help ... except, Tommie Tom and the other non-believers constantly do this nonsense because they love circular arguments due to knowing their man made logic doesn't hold water to Jesus Christ's truth and they can't stand themselves for choosing the wrong side. Plus, on a personal note, I think Tommie Tom's spikes in his hair are giving him problems tonight.
Amen.
If she can't take the badgering, then maybe she would be better off driving her minivan into a freezing river.
HS,
"man made logic doesn't hold water to Jesus Christ's truth"
It's always entertaining when Christians claim their beliefs defy all logic that we know of. Being smart is a detriment. LOL.
Tom, Tom, "If she can't take the badgering, then maybe she would be better off driving her minivan into a freezing river."
She drives me up the freakin' wall, but I really don't think it merits pain and death. Besides, she's SO easy to refute.
Observer, you spewed "HS, "man made logic doesn't hold water to Jesus Christ's truth"
It's always entertaining when Christians claim their beliefs defy all logic that we know of. Being smart is a detriment. LOL."
Answer: Pray tell, I'm waiting for a non-believer to scribble down one original thought since you come from the assembly line of the cookie cutter of man and proudly defend your foolishness.
Amen.