November 18th, 2011
05:00 AM ET
My Take: 5 reasons Christians should love 'Twilight'
Editor's Note: Jane Wells is the author of Glitter in the Sun: A Bible Study Searching for Truth in the Twilight Saga. She blogs (almost) weekly at www.glitterinthesun.com.
By Jane Wells, Special to CNN
(CNN)–The books and movies of the Twilight Saga have launched a firestorm of debate as to whether the vampire-human love story represents eternal love at its finest or glorifies misogynistic and abusive relationships. I am a proud member of the first camp, seeing epic and eternal themes in the books as worthy of discussion and the violence as a part of the fictional world that tells the story.
With Breaking Dawn, part 1, opening nation-wide this weekend, here is my list of the top five spiritual lessons from the first three movies in the Twilight franchise: Twilight, New Moon and Eclipse.
First, some background. Turns out, not all vampires are Bram Stoker monsters concerned only with their own impulses and appetites. Author Stephenie Meyer created the Cullen coven, respectful of human life, living off the blood of carefully culled wild animals. It is one of these “vegetarian” vampires, Edward, which the very human Bella Swan has fallen in love with. There is enough conflict in that one sentence to carry the story through four huge novels, one novella, a partial draft and eventually five movies.
In the first novel and movie, Twilight, Bella moves to her father’s home in Forks, Washington from her mother’s home in Phoenix, Arizona. Soon she meets Edward Cullen, and learns that vampires are not only real, but walk daily among the residents of the small town. Her awareness of them, or previous lack thereof, does not affect the reality of their existence.
In Hebrews we read that we are to entertain strangers because we might be entertaining angels. From Ephesians we also know that our battle is not against a physical foe but against “spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” An awareness of the unseen is a big piece of walking in faith.
#2. Love results in, and even requires, sacrifice.
In the second book and movie of the series, New Moon, Edward concludes that including Bella in his vampire world is unhealthy. He attempts to save her by breaking up and moving away. It is, he says later, the hardest thing he’s done in 100 years. Although it nearly kills him, he is willing to die if it meant she would live a normal, happy, human life.
It was no less than Jesus himself who said in John 15:13, “Greater love hath no man than this – that a man lay down his life for his friends.”
#3. Humans crave divine perfection.
Throughout the series, Bella notes how perfect she finds Edward in every way. The gaping hole Bella feels when Edward leaves (see #2 above) is very much like the one we spend our lives trying to fill with relationships, food, status, or any other of a million different things – but can only be filled by a relationship with God.
No one captures this better than David in Psalm 42, which opens with an image of a deer searching for water – just as David’s soul desperately seeks out God. In this psalm of heartbreak, David cries out to the only perfection that can heal him. Later, in verse seven he says, “deep calls to deep in the roar of your waterfalls, all your waves and breakers have swept over me.” Our human spirits recognize and respond to the call of the Spirit of God, even if in the weak echo of nature’s beauty.
#4. A drastic change of direction may be exactly what you need.
In the third novel and movie, Eclipse, we learn about Jasper Cullen, Edward’s adopted brother. He was second in command of a vampire army during the American Civil war. However, after several decades of constant conflict, the violence began to weigh heavily on him and he left. Eventually he found peace with the Cullen coven.
Every disciple Jesus called turned his back on one way of life to embrace another, none more drastically than Matthew who had been a tax collector. But the choice is yours, as illustrated by the rich, young man of Matthew 19. Jesus looked on him and loved him, yet he walked away from Jesus’ offer of eternal life because it hurt too much to give up his wealth.
#5. You’ll only really fit in after you accept what it is God has designed you for.
All of her life Bella was a misfit. In Arizona she was a pale geek. In Forks, she is the newcomer. Her mother doesn’t get her, her father is clueless. She is a square peg to everyone’s round hole – until the end of Eclipse where she realizes she’d been fighting to fit into everyone’s expectations which, although well intentioned, were far too small.
“I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you a hope and a future.” Jeremiah 29:11.
How about you? Are the expectations placed on you really right for you? Are bits of your soul and psyche rubbed raw by the assumptions you have accepted as your own? Perhaps it’s time to broaden your scope of vision. Because even your biggest dreams pale in comparison to what the God who created every good thing has dreamed up on your behalf.
I can’t wait to see Breaking Dawn. If it follows the books as the previous movies have we will see one of the toughest spiritual lessons of all – when Bella learns that sometimes it is after we’ve made the right choice that things are hardest of all.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Jane Wells.
About this blog
The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.
hippy once again chimes in on something he clearly doesn't understand.
Oops, meant to reply to the thread, but it's too much of a pain to find again. Anywho, hippypoet, your comments are pretty worthless.
sorry if i'm smarter then you fake Passive Aggressive, you could try doing some research...oh whatta a thought!!!!
So, do you feel better now? Or do you need to keep being an a.ss?
no , i don't feel like not being an @-ss when someone else is being equally such a cheaky fellow! besides, that proves nothing.
"rise to the greatness that I know our species is capable of" i havent seen it. good luck trying to find it.
Yeah but judging by your posts, there are a lot of things you haven't seen.
OH and i forgot one last thing. Do you see people bashng budah? or any other religoin.......no. its always been Jesus. the kindest most merciful god there is. and still he gets critisised. just another sign his birth was foretold and his dying was real. it says in his word that man would hate him. here it is! and it even says that he has come to earth to cause distruction and in the end (revelation) he will take those who endured their faith home and those who lived without believing will perish and NOT have everlasting life. not like you care. youd rather burn in hell for eturnity than love someone who could make your life amazing, but your big mouth and hardend hearts keep you from advancing forward. have fun! i hear its an eturnal burn and magats crawl through your skin eating away your flesh.........but. the Bible also says that he doesnt wish that any would perish and that he draws ALL men unto him.....that includes you. weather you like it or not someday he'l get you to soften your cold hearts.
I love you, please marry me
Seriously, you two paragraph basically sum up everything that is wrong with religion, christianity, illiterate rubes and the twisted morality and persecution complex that has pervaded (apparently) even the lowest levels of christianity. Keep up the hat-I mean love!
Probably because Buddhism is a philosophy and not a religion, and also probably because Buddhists don't go around spreading misery hatred and death everywhere they're found. Although they do seem to have a problem with self-immolation, but hey, they're not harming anyone but themselves so I'm fine with that.
Further, to address your grammatically-challenged rant; I have nothing against Jesus and I very much doubt that many other atheists do either. I just don't think he exists. There's no record of him outside of the Bible and no doc-umentation of his existence until decades after his supposed life.
The Bible is clearly and patently wrong on many, many things. Men and animals were not made in an instant just the way they are now, they evolved over billions of years. I would point you to the fossil record, but I doubt I'm going to sway you anyway. This is for anyone else who cares to listen.
Finally, the arrogance and narcissism of Christianity sickens me. You claim to be humble, yet believe that God has accepted you into Paradise just for believing in him? You think the Creator of the entire Universe is so petty that he'd damn me to Hell just for not believing? Despite being a decent person and a caring human being? I think that picture of God is insulting to the Creator, if it exists. That you've so clearly attributed the meanest of human failings to your supposedly perfect being is a clear indication that...well, you're wrong.
Also, if you care to, research Pascal's Wager. It's a coward's way to live your life.
sry to chime in but, this is for the ghostie.... josephus wrote about jesus... and most other historians at the same time as josephus, most don't say much about him at all, but they all agree he lived, they argue only on one thing.. his divinity! ok proceed.. again , sry! 🙂
Josephus wasn't born till 70 CE. There are no eye witness accounts of Yeshua. No historical docu-mentation. Nothing until decades after the fact. Sounds like a good ole case of hearsay to me!
37 C.E.: Josephus is born to prominent parents in Jerusalem...
i know its wiki, but its from Brown college!
Josephus reported that there was a sect (tribe) of believers in this Christ. That's all.
check out where he wrote about the so called messiah and the second temple. You could argue that his words were changed over time, but the form of latin used and the way it is written leads me to believe it was not rewritten for a biased reason to make it look like he did something he didn't. But when its an ancient source of info, you need others to confirm there words.... research the Roman emperor Claudius, he was a very exact historian, yes he came after, he sites every source and then them can be checked out... if you can prove me wrong, please do, i enjoy being wrong rather then right!
only way to learn!
Buddhism can be pretty lame, but there aren't many articles on it here. Islam gets slammed a lot, by both Christians and non-believers . Mormons get slammed a lot, again by both Christians and non-believers There are Protestants here who despise Catholicism and vice versa. The Old Testament and hence Judaism gets criticized more than the New Testament, with the possible exception of the myths of virgin birth and resurrection. I'm generally speaking on the "non-believer side" of most arguments here and yet have had serious disputes with other non-believers. Maybe you should open your eyes and actually see what's happening instead of falling into the usual tedious Christian self-pity party before posting.
John, please explain who buddhism can be lame? this i gotta here!
Nirvana, karma, reincarnation. You need me to explain how insipid these ideas are?
And that doesn't even get to "Western" Buddhism. I found Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance to be perhaps the most unreadably idiotic book I have ever started and put down feeling a mixture of amusement and disgust.
Perhaps I got his date of birth wrong. Regardless, being born 4 years AFTER the purported death/resurrection of Yeshua means he can't have possibly been a first hand witness. Anything he wrote is based on hearsay. Further, were he born on the date you provided, he wouldn't have written his histories for...say, at least 16 years? I have difficulty imagining a historian beginning much younger than that.
meditation has been proven to help stress and help people think more clearly... they believe that they might find a place they call Nirvana...it doesn't have to be true to search for it doing something healthy and peaceful. And the word karma is just there world for energy... reincarnation has been filmed a few times... not proved by any means, but watch and read what you can – its VERY interesting.
warmesTghosT, its said he was known for his knowledge of jewish history by the age 14.. its in a timeline i posted earlier somewhere... sry, i'm gettting very high and on my way to drunk – scotch on the rocks , so bare with – i first get poetic then i get off the computer so no worries.. i won;t go looking for it now, maybe tomorrow.
Uurgh hippy you're leaking credulity at an alarming pace. Someone has "filmed" reincarnation? How did I miss this?
Hey man I enjoy the odd mix of intoxicants myself, but I generally retain my sensibilities =D
insult it if you must, but seriously, check into it. not a reg film but a doc-umentary.
If Christianity has taught me anything, it's that sometimes, you must.
Sorry if I was offensive. I find a lot to like about Buddhism, and I believe that Nirvana does exist in that it is a state of mind and that meditation can be situationally efficacious.
Reincarnation is as much of a possibility as the existence of a Creator is. Both very unlikely, but still possible.
here, let me use physics to by my argument... the law of conservation of matter and energy states that energy can not be created nor can be it destoryed, so reincarnation makes perfect sense.... the energy that we are gets transferred into everything else. heaven is a place that makes no sense as it argues that we have a soul, which is a created idea by man, and then that we are exactly as we are.. but such an argument can't be made because there is no such proof... energy can be measured.
The zen concept of satori and similar things in eastern religions are reasonably understood as achievable mental states. I think they are overhyped, but they are interesting and real. But there are metaphysical claims made about nirvana re the cessation of the process of rebirth, etc, that put it firmly in the realm as "not notably more or less believable than Asgard".
very true... i have often wondered why the "reincarnations" are always found in china/tibet/india area...seems preconcived but the idea of transferring energies is as simple as a blood transferrence.
@hippy Um, I certainly don't doubt that our energy dissipates at death. It does all the time in life, which is why we have to keep eating. In death it continues to dissipate, but now, since we are dead, it doesn't get replenished. This has zero to do with reincarnation, which posits something not horribly unlike the Christian soul "inhabiting" one body, moving on after death and then inhabiting a new body.
Oh, and for the record, I have done past life regression. I consider it a form of directed active imagination (in the Jungian sense), albeit done as period pieces. An interesting exercise. A couple of my own narratives became semi-prophetic. But if one blithely presumes to take it all literally as one's soul's past lives, I fear one is simply being a credulous doofus. It is best not to be a credulous doofus.
There is no scientific basis for the concept of a "soul". The law of conservation of mass refers to our physical bodies. The "soul" gives off no discernible energy and is therefore not considered a form of energy. Human consciousness/sentience is located in our brain – specifically the intricate lace of neurons that fires electrical signals back and forth across our hemispheres. The same as any other animal, just a lot more efficient and capable. The only species born with the potential for the foreknowledge of death.
Reincarnation is wishful thinking, and frankly I believe it's a lot more laudable an idea than Christianity, but it has no basis in reality.
Anyone who does past-life regression is incredibly stupid and gullible. Know anyone like that?
ok ... people, please , why are you arguing like i said a soul is anything but complete bs – i shall regale – "heaven is a place that makes no sense as it argues that we have a soul, which is a created idea by man," moving on – my argument for reincarnation is the law of conservation of matter and energy, i am in no way arguing for a soul, which the mere thought is laughible.... i do however also don't believe in past lives either, the idea that energy contains a memory is completely off basis but in the doc-umentary i spoke of argues against this.... so check it out – if i knew the t!tle i'd say it. sry
@What Read up on Jung's exercise called "active imagination" and then consider what is going on in a "past life" regression and then I think you can see that the latter can be an interesting exercise, albeit one advocated and directed by people who at a deep, deep level misunderstand what it is that they are doing. It's really not unlike meditation boiled down to basic mental techniques versus mediation conceived within some gaudy cosmological framework of eastern religions. The techniques produce real, interesting and potentially beneficial results. The cosmological horse hockey surrounding these practices within the religions that developed them are something else again.
Or consider the proven benefits of prayer on the person praying. Clearly, the benefit comes from focussing the mind and convincing oneself that you are not yet defeated, there is some hope. Even when there is no hope, you can feel better for a certain period thinking there is some hope. Depression, for instance, is largely a matter of having come to the conclusion that there is no hope. Prayer is therefore a sort of meditative antidepressant. But it's not the only one and its efficacy by no means that one is truly talking to supernatural beings, let alone specifically to Jehovah or Jesus or whoever. Those are doctrinal trappings. Taking the exercise of conceiving oneself as some other person alive at some other time and building a narrative around this "other you" as the literal remembrance of an actual past life is a similarly misconceived doctrinal trapping. But the exercise is still of some interest and potentially of some benefit.
Hmm OK I think I misunderstood you the first time hippy.
You weren't arguing for the concept of a soul, you were talking about the energy that's reabsorbed into the planet when our physical body decomposes. Right?
That still doesn't argue a thing for the re-incorporation of sentience, let alone the exact same incidence of sentience that we as humans consider you "hippypoet" or I "warmesTghosT". If the energy from our decomposing bodies is reabsorbed into existence and then somehow reformed into sentience, or life, what basis do you give for the assumption that that sentience would again produce the exact same creature/mind you think of as "you"? Wouldn't the entire process of re-absorption and re-incorporation have produced a completely different incidence of sentience? After all, the components that currently make us the human beings that we are now would have been mixed up, added to and contaminated.
I just can't see it.
But, hippy, what you are calling reincarnation isn't reincarnation at all. And the little lump of energy that will dissipate from us at death is a tiny fraction of what has already dissipated from us as we live. And it's not just energy. Consider the turnover of the molecules that make us up. We are constantly falling apart and being put back together, but in such minute portions so continuously that we have the illusion that we are basically the same lump of physical stuff from birth till death. But nothing could be further from the truth.
john, on your "Or consider the proven benefits of prayer on the person praying" i agree, those who completely believe that prayer works are generally happier people, but they are also generally more delusioned.
ghostie – i am arguing that energy is energy, is comes from everything and goes to everything, so yes, we are arguing the same point, energy has no memory, but does make us up and every other being ever created – which is an ironic word to use. 🙂 but anyway – the idea that we are formed from past beings of the same evolutionary level is beyond needing an amount of "faith"... which i don't have! i am simple agreeing with the most basic idea of reincarnation.
ok so here we go, we are going quatum.... at the quatum level, every single thing moves at a non stop basis, so yes john, we are always being "re-built" but not really, because only the separat protons and electrons and other stuff that makes up atoms – sry, gettting drunk – they move and get repositioned by exact copies of themselves at every split second... now we fo into theorical quatum physics – they are never touching due to a magnetic field that all atoms have and so we are technically never actually in existence! cool huh!
This is very much like the useless debates over the existence of a god. Nobody defines the god's attributes as this always makes it obvious that such a being does not exist.
The same with a "soul". Without defining any attributes, the argument is worthless since everyone will cling to their private ideas and never bring them out to be defined in concrete terms.
In physics, reference information can come to have a physical / dimensional property. If what we usually think of as a "soul" were to partake of this theoretical property, then the question would then be how much "information" regarding the self-awareness of an organic creature would have any reason to remain coherent after the end of the physical processes that gave the creature its self-awareness?
Probably not much, considering. Why should the last physical neurological state of a person's brain have any relevance to general physics and why the hell would anyone think their memories would survive death?
It's much more likely that there is nothing even remotely resembling the common concept of a "soul" in physics.
The closest anyone is likely to come is in traveling back in time to when the person was still alive. That, generally speaking, is the only likely place to actually find a person's total mental state preserved forever...in the past.
But I am only theorizing here and using thought experiments. Feel free to ignore my ramblings. I am wasting time waiting for everyone else to get ready to go to the store. An earth-shattering reason to post, you may be sure...
@Hippy Yes, they are more delusioned. But the delusion comes from the doctrinal trappings. I suspect if people learned to focus their thoughts and simply tell themselves that one doesn't know that there is no hope, and as long as there is hope that there is hope, there is hope! Indeed, counterarguing negative assumptions is the basis of cognitive therapy, which has been proven effective against depression. I have used it myself to good effect.
Similarly, people who take "past life regression" as the literal remembrance of past lives are also deluded on precisely this point. But the technique disengaged from its naive and delusional literalist trappings has some real power.
@Phiz, wow, you took too long to make your argument seem valid anymore, i hate when that happens!
@john, i completely agree. with every word...the fact is simply "mind over matter" works every time.
just to expand on "now we fo into theorical quatum physics – they are never touching due to a magnetic field that all atoms have and so we are technically never actually in existence! cool huh!"
"We" each person, everything, are nothing but electric impulses that contain information that tell other atoms what to do – so everything is nothing that tells about everything – and nothing is what makes everything something! i love it!
Youuuu..... are delusional. Christians seem to have this idea that they're the only people who have ever suffered for their religion. WRONG. Every single religion has at least some history of persecution. And it's not like you're in the minority here in America anyways. You think you're being attacked by those evil Atheists, but we are a very VERY small minority here, and in fact we probably get as much flack, IF MORE than you do. So stop whining and do something useful.
how about this! since yall arnt christians and you certainly dont believe in the Bible, find something better to do with your time. but since your reading this! hows about you go and make a differnce in the world instead of bashing us when we ( christian) or in your case psyco paths! are feeding the poor giving to oragnisations, running hospitails, giving the coat off our back and wearing our heart on our sleeves! but NO your too busy trying to crack the case on something that has exsisted before your fathers fathers.....and if God isnt real! why are they killing people in africa over it just to prove that allah is God. And WHY does everyone when their in a tight spot pray to Jesus that hed help them if they did just the right thing... and WHY if God didnt exsist would people use his name in profanity.......I see. Hes here when you lose everything. or when you need something or when your at a loss for words. even my bible says either your Hot or cold, dont be luke warm. so be cold cold cold! you think your opion really matters? it doesnt. dont burn your bridges.....your lucky hes merciful.
I hear Rosetta Stone does wonderful things these days. Want to try and learn English and try again?
"you think your opion really matters? it doesnt"
Those in glass houses....
great saying there hell bent but who in the right mind would ever (1) live in a gl@ss house and (2) waste that much sand... you could build a beach with all that sand!
besides any-one dumb enough to live in a gl@ss house should have a stash of rocks knowing that someone lilke me is going to come along and throw one ... i love the sound of breaking gl@ss. 🙂
History and modern science have pretty well proven that the Bible is full of sh!t.
Further, the greatest philanthropist the world has likely ever seen is Bill Gates, who is an atheist.
Lastly, when you get right down to it, Christianity is evil. It lies about the fundamental nature of man and instills a feeling of unnatural guilt over being human. It demonizes and demeans anyone who disagrees or believes/acts differently. Christianity is downright immoral and just as YOU see it as your "mission" to convert as many to your cause, so do I see it as mine to educate anyone who is willing to listen so that we as a species may discard your toxic belief system and rise to the greatness that I know our species is capable of.
@liz: “instead of bashing us when we ( christian) … are feeding the poor giving to oragnisations, running hospitails, giving the coat off our back and wearing our heart on our sleeves!” It’s plan for everyone to see how the televangelists and mega church pastors behave. You paint a rosy but false picture of Christians. If half the people who claim to be Christian gave 1% of their income to real charities America wouldn’t have any poor or homeless.
“if God isnt real! why are they killing people in africa over it just to prove that allah is God”
If David Korish wasn’t god why did 83 branch dividians choose to burn to death for him?
“ WHY does everyone when they’re in a tight spot pray to Jesus that hed help them” You don’t know everyone and haven’t been with them in every tight spot. This is just wishful thinking on your part
“ Hes here when you lose everything. or when you need something or when your at a loss for words”
I grew up in a Christian home as a true believer and he was never around when I needed him (one of the reasons I started to doubt Christianity). Go ahead, next time you’re really sick go to church instead of a hospital
“your lucky hes merciful.” He is not merciful because he does not exist. Any time he wants me to change my mind and believe is to present himself in person and say so. But all I ever see are 3rd party freelance agents telling me he does everything but all they can show me is a 2000 year old book of sadistic fairy tales that can’t do anything. What part of CON JOB don’t you understand
canadians should keep themselves and there opinions north of the border where they belong.
Helps if you could spell.
I feel like I should let you know... I've been in near-death situations before, and I didn't feel any compulsion to pray to god or Jesus. Your entire post is laughable.
Your opinion is duly noted, liz.
I have another reason! Both the Twilight Books and the bible are total B.S.
Plus, the sequels got progressively worse as the franchise wore on.
Do you mean Twilight or the Bible?
The Book of Mormon was a terrible Part III – too many plot holes!
canadians should keep themselves and there bs opinions north of the border where they belong.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE Twilight!!! And I'm a Christian!
It seems that while your ego is bloating like a space blob, your brain is shrinking to the size of a quark. It's getting more and more obvious everytime you make a reply.
I think it's a side effect of too much viewing your polyps. Try to snap your head out of your colon and a have a nicer view of the outside world. It has a whole lot of good things to offer.
You're a pretty committed troll, I'll give you that. Got any new material?
I award you 10 points for posting something coherent, albeit garbage, I could at least follow along with you. Yay you!
You unfortunately lose 10 points for replying on the main thread. sadface!
That leaves you at 0, right where you belong.
10 Points for Gryffendore!
HONEY, YOU KNOW I DON'T LIKE IT WHEN YOU SPEND ALL DAY ON THE COMPUTER. COME UP OUT OF THE BASEMENT AND WATCH WHEEL OF FORTUNE WITH ME THEN LATER WE CAN GO TO WALMART AND PICK OUT MATCHING SWEATERS.
I tell you, I have a lot and you have no idea how much I got. But sorry to say that I did not find you worthy spending a neuron with.
Too bad, the particles of your sub-atomic brain is disintegrating and evaporating into thin air. Did you see it? You gotta to have a giga microscop that I have just perfected to see such spectacular phenomenon.
HONEY I KNOW YOU CAN READ THIS SO I WISH YOU WOULD NOT IGNORE ME COME UPSTAIRS AND HAVE A COOKIE AND WATCH THAT GAME SHOW WITH ME OK? IF YOU DON'T I MAY HAVE TO HAVE THAT LITTLE TALK WITH YOUR THERAPIST AGAIN.
But MOOOOOOOM, I'm playing with my friends! Stop embaras.sing me! I'll be upstairs in a moment!
Moms..... am I right?
Ey Mom..such a precious one you've got. I bet you got it from the centuries old aztec's chest. But it sells already, do you have a newer version of that?
LOL! How amusing, to see atheists crumbles like sand castles hit by a tsunami that they desperately resort to stealing a handle. How sad, yet, how TYPICAL.
crumbling after what exactly? Unlike even Chad or Fred who probably are some of the fiercest christian debaters on this board, you just came here to.... what, bang you bible and yell at athiests for being mean? It's not exactly like you're impressing anyone with your wit or your ability to turn a phrase (I have my doubts that english is even your first language), so what exactly are we atheists "crumbling" from?
Oh despera and hypocra are the same people? hmm I didnt see that coming.
Yep! I just wanted to show some atheist here how to be rather creative than plain accepting defeat by stealing a handle.
It's your sanity that crumbles. Can't you see it, can you?
You forgot: because if more people love these pretend characters and mythology, they'll be more likely to to believe your own made up scam pretend religion and accompanying mythology.
Of course, most people know twilight is pretend. Sadly, most don't realize "god" is just as pretend.
JC's family and friends had it right 2000 years ago ( Mark 3: 21 "And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.")
Said passage is one of the few judged to be authentic by most contemporary NT scholars. e.g. See Professor Ludemann's conclusion in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 24 and p. 694
Actually, Jesus was a bit "touched". After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today's world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.
Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Most contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J's gospel being mostly fiction.
Obviously, today's followers of Paul et al's "magic-man" are also a bit on the odd side believing in all the Christian mumbo jumbo about bodies resurrecting, and exorcisms, and miracles, and "magic-man atonement, and infallible, old, European/Utah white men, and 24/7 body/blood sacrifices followed by consumption of said sacrifices. Yummy!!!!
So why do we really care what a first century CE, illiterate, long-dead, preacher man would like, do or say?
She said, "In Hebrews we read that we are to entertain strangers because we might be entertaining angels. From Ephesians we also know that our battle is not against a physical foe but against “spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” An awareness of the unseen is a big piece of walking in faith."
This is a grown adult writing in the first half of the 21st Century! Anybody who wonders if religion is an intellectually retarding force in society should dwell on that for a moment.
Guests might be angels? Battles against invisible spiritual forces in the unseen rhelm? Oh dear god. What's next, a raging battle between evil ground trolls and good sky-angels?
It would be comical if it werén't so sad.
That's right – your guests might just be angels!
So if a ravenous mob is coming after them, don't hesitate to toss your vir/gin daughters to the horde to be brutally ra/ped.
God really likes that kind of thing according to the Bible.
But..... I don't have a daughter..... WHAT DO I DO?!
You have a mom. Is she a virgin?
As a jew I was treated like I was christ come again, though I don't think I was emmaculately conceived....whatever, as long as it can be ANY virgin I'll just go track down the writer of this article, then I should be in the clear.
Chuckles = Toss them a useless canadian butting in on American news networks ,instead of minding there own business.One like doc ,who knows nothing of what he speaks.
According to IMDB, this "Twilight" movie's release date in Canada is the same as in the U.S. This article has absolutely nothing to do with America.
Would you chafe at a Christian Canadian posting here?
Maybe you should butt out of posting anything purporting to be realism.
@hippypoet: “you can look at the impact of a group of say 50,000 people roaming thru the desert at this time”
Where do you get the number 50,000? The estimates I’ve seen range between 600,000 and 1.5 million
you posted that in the wrong place, but whatever... the number i get is not from any source, its just a number – if you can see an impact made by 50,000 then a larger number should be easy to see... and the number you have isn't right either.... its an been made bigger over time, thats an aftereffect of have an oral tradition, things grow form a small fish to a whale that eats people...its like the game of telephone when you were a kid.
Clara ,you defend foreigners wheezing on American gigs,either you're a foreigner or a potential traitor.Either way you are no use to us, and pretty useless to yourself.Belief system is irrelevant.
I heard they'll take dudes too, you have any sons? 😛
Nope, she made an indecent proposal last night but I turned her down. I thought hers was too narrow for mine.
Takes real practice to find the 'reply' link when you're typing fast in a righteous, dumba-ss rage, huh?
oral traditions are to teach morals while teaching the history of your people and where they come from. To get a solid idea of any possible truth you have to look at the separated tribal stories and then the whole cultural impact on the region they live in and around... it is rather silly to look at the story as it is today and even believe a word at face value. But no worries, do the research and see for yourself, you not agree with my @ssesment of the history and the conclusions i draw, but thats life. You can pose an equally fact and evidence based argument against mine and I would agree with the possiblity as i much i agree with my own conclusion.
I find it hilarious that the author compares Christianity to an obvious work of fiction. Then again, their both works of fiction.
Twilight sucks. And the scriptures are historic record some people believe are records of the divine. Just because you choose not to believe doesn't mean others can't. Then again, I shouldn't expect much enlightenment from someone who doesn't know the difference between there, they're, and there.
"Then again, I shouldn't expect much enlightenment from someone who doesn't know the difference between there, they're, and there."
Can you teach me the difference between there and there?
Your book is only a "historical reference" if you are willing to forget about things called "facts".
Hey Jules –
There's no historical basis for Jesus/Yeshua. No first hand accounts of his life or ministry, no artifacts or works of carpentry, no records or reliable information about him was written down by ANYONE during his lifetime, and the Romans were pretty adept record keepers. That says something to me.
Further, there is no historical evidence for the Exodus. No records of an entire population of slaves ever living in Egypt, and the Egyptians also were pretty decent record keepers. Same goes for Moses and a whole list of other characters. Not a scrap of corroborating evidence.
The Bible is a book of mythology with a few ties to historical sites. It is in no way a historical text.
jules... you blow donkey @ss and you like it! you liltte miss are a priss who thinks the world can't understand something because of the placement of ' or , or : or ; but in reality... you don't have anything to add, and so you just insult word and spelling useage – just sad!
@warmesTghosT... you sir are wrong, in egypt they have a wall showing the jews leaving and the king chasing them shortly after... this event happened... moses may not have been the jew leading the way, but it makes sense that it was him to do it.. he was the second son of the king and so was the miltary leader for the southern areas, therefore would have had knowledge of tides and quick passes thru mountains and the like... stuff his brother would not have! thats is the only reason for the escape... but please don't mistake me for a believer.... i just know history.
Good sir, I would never insult you so by mistaking you for a believer, I've read and enjoyed many of your posts on this forum.
What is this wall you speak of and how do you know it corresponds to the Biblical story of the Exodus? Also, is there any verifiable evidence of Moses existing outside of the Bible? I am genuinely curious.
I agree with warmesTghosT. Slaves did not build the pyramids and there is no historical evidence of an exodus. None of that stuff is real. The fictional stories are mixed with tidbits of real history and historical figures/events to make it appear "legit" – a tactic commonly used in an attempt to garner credibility.
read this book – Israel in Egypt: The Evidence for the Authenticity of the Exodus Tradition
thats all i can find at the moment... but if you study history you can see the effects of a massive structural weakness at this time in egypt... they lost a crap load of hands to help out.
now is there is solid proof, but there is plenty of evidence – and the wall i was talking about, it needs to be x-rayed for the image to be seen... the egyptians like all of people, they rewrote there history and that can be seen time and time again...
also you can look at the impact of a group of say 50,000 people roaming thru the desert at this time, by the loss of herdsmens cattle to the jews, the useage of water sources – that got used up and made drought for the natives of the lands they were traveling thru... history is indeed facts, but where facts are lacking you must look at the evidence and create the most logical conclusion.
and stop viewing them as slaves.... they weren't. they were an abused group of people but they were not slaves and most certainly the king didn't want to lose them, so at the possiblity of loss he would have made them into slaves to keep them hostage so he could still use them for there skills at metal working and dyes, herding and dairy products – the jews are afterall a desert people who were originally like that of the Bedouin.
I'm asking for verifiable, historical data on the supposed occupation of and Exodus from Egypt by the ancient Israelites. I do not believe that to this date any such evidence has been found. Those sites you linked are all religious in nature, and I take what they have to say on the subject with a grain of salt.
i once saw as you do... i studied history for a long time.. i didn't chose these sites because they appeared on a google search... don't be so quick to dismiss information because it comes from source of religious content...you need to look at the area in question, look at those cultures which existed at the time, look at the food source and water sources.... you have to understand that before this there is proof that jews lived around the area , after this, most jewish people are gone... this can be seen thru looking at which animals were used in which way at what time of year and then see if the animal count in a certain area drops below a yearly average.. its not an easy thing to study, you really have to look at every source avalible, but once you do you will see a history appear that you already know.
Now if its solid proof you NEED, then well your sh!t outta luck... the Egyptians rewrote this so it appears to never have happened, just like the rein of Akhenaten, the heritic king who created a new religion in egypt to worship the sun and then moved the capitol city to a newly built one called Tell-el- Amarna.... this history is gone from egypt, or as much as the people and next king could erase it. And as for the Jews who made it... well first they needed to re-establish there "kingdom" then they could take the time to write it down... so thats atleast a 30-300 year span due to the current "owner" of the jewish homeland – a bablyonian type civilization, perhaps the Hitt!ties or @ssyerians.... but this can help give a view of the thickness of history going on in world cultures at the time...
@hippypoet The main problem with the exodus story is the lack of evidence of a prolonged stay in the "wilderness" and the fact that Jewish and Canaanite encampments in Canaan don't show a pattern of a dramatic conquest.
john, there wouldn't have been a dramatic conquest because the jewish people didn't have anything to fight with or for yet besides there lives, which because most were skilled masons, smiths, herdsman.... they were left alive and shipped out to the cities where they were needed most by the victor of whatever invasion... most likely if there was an attack against the jews at this point in history, they would have given in right away, so save the culture and there history – which is of the upmost importance. like i said, 30- 300 year span to re-take and create strong the kingdom of the jews.... the so called kingdom of Saul wasn't even till 1020 B.C. which according to the most widely accecpted date for the Exodus is about 150 years after they left egypt.
"most were skilled masons,etc"
What a bunch of BS.
hippypoet, you are obviously suffering from the common malady of "Jew Worship" brought on by reading Jew-centric and heavily slanted pseudo-histories.
They were just people who needed to eat and poop like everyone else. The majority in any ancient culture would have been farmers of one sort or another. No ancient culture could have even survived for longer than a week if they were all "professionals", like you seem to think they were.
i never said they were all professionals, again, you have to have an understanding of history... when people are brought to another area..not where they live but where others live....why? would you if you were a warrior take 10,000 people kids, women, and men to your capitol where they could destory you from the inside out... hell no, but if some were masons and others were smiths, while some others were herdsman... well, thats a skilled labor force for your war machine – come on man, use your head! its not bs, its logic – where you may have skilled workers, they do to.. they are your enemy, do you kill them off – or bring them to your capitol and put them to work for you? EXACTLY! So the majority of the jews held in enemy cities were skilled at something useful... or just basic merchants, but again, even they are needed for a civilization to flurish! History is not taught like it was, it is taught thru proved facts and solid evidence, that is found thru study and logical conclusions built from evidence of said people, resources, and surrounding peoples and resources. you can believe me or do your own research, i'd prefer you do your own research that way if i am wrong, you can prove it.... and i prefer to be wrong – as i am not very often, and i am not concided, i am just well studied. I also have an ability to deduce things rather well.
@hippypoet: “you can look at the impact of a group of say 50,000 people roaming thru the desert at this time”
Where do you get the number 50,000? The estimates I’ve seen range between 600,000 and 1.5 million.
you posted that in the wrong place, but whatever... the number i get is not from any source, its just a number – if you can see an impact made by 50,000 then a larger number should be easy to see... and the number you have isn't right either.... its an been made bigger over time, thats an aftereffect of have an oral tradition, things grow form a small fish to a whale that eats people...its like the game of telephone when you were a kid..
But the conquest of Canaan is an important part of the myth!
I don't doubt that there were some Hebrews or proto-Hebrews in Egypt. And of course, Canaan was dominated and sometimes outright ruled by Egypt. Thin evidence here and there of Jewish involvement in Egypt and/or Egyptian affairs hardly validates the bloated culture hero tale of Moses and the Exodus.
again i find myself trying to not sound insulting but if you are i can't help that, sry. But you need an understanding of oral tradition before you can make such a claim – one thing about orally told stories is that the main idea is never off, it remains the same thru and thru, its the small before events and after events that get warped – however, one flipside, an oral tradition has the fault of being at the whim of the culture's current level of acceptance of whats right, wrong and overall accecptable – that can change what the "main meaning" of the story is and how its told... so there is a possiblity of the story being that, just a story, but when you understand the differences between the jewish tribes and there inner hate for eachother you understand that by looking at the whole culture and see what are the differences in the story and deduce what the original story is. I am getting long winded at this point, so i will just say that there is plenty of evidence in surrounding cultures to say that a large portion of the jewish people were not in there home land. missing peoples and returning masses are very common in the ancient world, it was common practice to steal your enemies source of strenght – tradesmen and young men!
Uh, don't worry, Hippy. I'm not insulted by your attempts to claim the story of the Exodus is somehow fundamentally true even if, as you at least appear to be acknowledging, all the details of this sort of cultural self-identification myth are subject to being deleted, forgotten, added, embellished and generally warped in whatever way people wish for political or theological or whatever reasons to warp them. Perplexed, but not insulted.
@hippypoet: “i once saw as you do... i studied history for a long time…
its not an easy thing to study, you really have to look at every source avalible, but once you do you will see a history appear that you already know.”
Sounds to me like you cherry picked the historic hints that you could twist to fit your own personal bias. This is exactly why I need solid proof. How about the discovery of thousands of chariot wheels and swords in the Red Sea where the Egyptian army was suppose to have been destroyed
being Perplexed by what really goes down inside a tribal lifestyle is the nature of the beast... it is the main reason why the argument of moses event always ends up going to ask the question of why Egypt and why there is no such a wall displaying the revolt like everything else.... but like i said, they practice rewriting history like every other culture, they do it so history will remember the victories and not the losses.
@hippypoet: “the number i get is not from any source, its just a number … and the number you have isn't right either.... its an been made bigger over time” As I recall that number came from some pretty solid reasoning, I will have to go check. My thoughts are that a much larger number of people will leave much more evidence of their existence and from all I’ve read there isn’t any of the solid evidence for 50,000, and certainly not for 600k
TR6, oral tradition is by nature on that grows with every time its told, now the red sea is friggin huge, and a grand feet ....too bad it was the reed sea, and it is at certain areas at certain times a year a muddy swamp-like river and maybe the king lost a few men and horses but not the massive losses they are said to have taken.
No, Hippy, what perplexes is why you defend the reality of the Exodus story while conceding that oral traditions delete, add, embellish and generally fabricate at will.
oral traditions are to teach morals while teaching the history of your people and where they come from. To get a solid idea of any possible truth you have to look at the separated tribal stories and then the whole cultural impact on the region they live in and around... it is rather silly to look at the story as it is today and even believe a word at face value. But no worries, do the research and see for yourself, you not agree with my @ssesment of the history and the conclusions i draw, but thats life. You can pose an equally fact and evidence based argument against mine and I would agree with the possiblity as i much i agree with my own conclusion..
Don't you find it ironic that you are demanding for intelligent reply from me when you opted to base your first comment on my moniker rather than my post?
Did the medic gave you a dose of your medicine? Well, don't blame me!
Why so angry? Do you need a hug?
Yes, Chuckles, how does that christard line go again?... Hypocra must have been deeply wounded by reality at sometime in his life. Pity.
I find it funny that of all pages to come to on the belief blogs to claim yet again that atheists are terrible and come here to be terrible people, he chose the one about Twilight, where I would say the clear majority of comments on this board are targeted towards a) the shi.tiness that is Twighlight or b) that @HypocraAtheists sucks.
I find it ironic that I expected an intelligent reply from a Christian at all.
Oh, I see atheisTurds having a nice conversation under my post. Hello there, i wish the two of you having a good chat. Want some juice? I got a Kool-Aid here. LOL!
Yes, you should. You're not capable to give one.
To be fair, there are some intelligent commenters on this board who are believers and will give you truthful responses and still pra.gmatic (though I have a sneaking su.sp.icion they are more di.ests than christians even if they say differently)
However to expect a reply from a clearly ant.agonistic person who is getting angry at other people getting angry might be too much to ask for.
I'm of the persuasion that anyone who is intellectually honest and who has read the Bible carefully will no longer remain a Christian. It's humorous, but their own holy book proves their religion is completely false.
Anyway, I do realize there are intelligent Christians out there, Hypocra just ain't one of them.
Someone put their crankypants on one leg at a time this morning, huh? At least you're not signing every post with 'amen'.
I would love me some Jews! Do you have reconstruction or only the usual 3 flavors?
No disagreement here. Reading the bible, learning about the tenants of christianity and still trying to fit it into todays society, science and what not seems like an exercise in futility. I at least can appreciate the ones who use the bible as a signpost on some of the moral issues like being nice to be people and stuff without trying to use it to answer the real tough, literal answers that it clearly can not.
@warmsTghosT12:45 That does sound like a good answer, however when archaeologist dig up old civilations they find the people worshiped animals, the sun and moon and stars and even men and women. I grant there were god(s) of thunder, but tornadoes, hurricanes and other natural catstrophies seem to not influence the worship. You put up a date about 4000 years ago, and that is about right, however man came along much sooner than that, even Bible scholars put creation at 6-10000 years ago. So, do evolutionist think man worship any god(s) before that?
First, Bo, you need to learn to properly use the "reply" feature.
Second, I pulled 4,000 right out of my butt (no jokes please). I am not a historian or archaeologist.
As long as there have been "men" (read: highly intelligent apes, because that is what human beings are. Apes.) there have been gods. As soon as man realized that existence could not be adequately explained by their current understanding, he created something to fill the gap.
The first men created the first gods. Not the other way around.
Strange that we were the first apes to invent gods.
There are effigies of female figures that are likely to have had some relationship to goddess worship that go back for sure as far as 30,000 years before present and possibly much, much farther. Google "venus figurines"
Norman, hom0 sapiens most likely was not the first ape to create gods. We had some highly intelligent cousins called neanderthals that were nearly as intelligent as modern day man. We hunted and out-bred them to extinction, but I don't find it unlikely that they had their primitive supersti-tions as well.
Why? We were the first apes to do a lot of things.
There are two very ancient apparent venus figurines that date back at least 290,000 years before present and may be vastly older. Religion could go back far before ho-mo sapiens. It's speculative, but can't be dismissed out of hand.
Bo is a "reply button" atheist – he doesn't believe it exists. Don't hold your breath waiting for him to use it.
Maybe Bo just doesnt see any evidence of a reply button.
But where is your EVIDENCE!!!? Sorry. That's a reflex. I wonder if language was important? Or whatever it is that makes an artist? Maybe H neanderthalensis had these things, maybe not.
J.W., I'm a little late in the game here, but that was really funny!
'Twilight' is a monstrous cancer on the face of American culture. It is devoid of artistic or social value in a way that the bodice-rippers lining the checkout line can only dream of. 'Twilight' is the sucking intellectual void at the heart of the American religious right. Stephanie Meyer is guilty of wholesale crimes against literature itself in a way that no unimaginative sci-fi author or boilerplate John Grisham thriller writer ever could be. I'll say that again: in publishing this abomination, she has defiled literature itself. 'Twilight' is a fat steaming pile of vomit heaved into the proverbial Garden of Eden by Satan's rancid esophagus. It is unfit to serve as toilet paper. It is pure, concentrated garbage. How could ANYONE profess to enjoy this toxic fundamentalist filth without a hint of shame?
Hrmm well while I'm not quite as vehemently opposed to Meyer herself, I do agree that Twilight is garbage. That Meyer enjoys so much success is kind of a slap in the face to much more intelligent and articulate female authors of fantasy (rare as they are) like Anne Rice, JV Jones or Ursula K Leguin.
Obviously I left out JK Rowling because, while she is a fantastic author, Harry Potter is nowhere near under-appreciated.
"How could ANYONE profess to enjoy this toxic fundamentalist filth without a hint of shame?"
That should be their new fragrance line "Shame"!! Smell like youv'e just waited 5 hours in line with thousands of desparate teenage girls with just a hint of proactive and wine coolers.
That diatribe totally made my day! 😀
@dark7element So, I take from this that you did NOT enjoy the film ...
+ 416 points for dark7element
+ 79 bonus points for proper use of "Satan's rancid esophagus"
when 900 years old you reach, look this good, you will not!
The Doctor would beg to differ.
And Lazarus Long.
Ooh Heinlein. I read and loved Stranger in a Strange Land, then read and hated Starship Troopers. Any suggestions?
to steal someones screen name, not the jedi way it is
i am sry Yoda, i didn't know someone had this name, i was just quoting the movie.. this is when he dies and luke then goes off thinking he is a jedi knight – young arrogance! tisk tisk.
@warmesTghosT: "Job: A Comedy of Justice" was the first Heinlein novel I ever read. I think you'd like Vonnegut too, if you haven't read him. I think everyone should read "Slaughterhouse Five," but "The Sirens of Ti-tan" is my personal favorite.
@SeanNJ: Thanks, I will look into those ti-tles. I normally prefer fantasy but all my favorite authors are in the middle of projects right now and I have nothing new to read. I'm currently working on Hyperion by Dan Simmons, about halfway through. Interesting thus far.
@:warmesTghosT: I'm going to assume you've read Zelazny's Amber series then, right? If not, go to your nearest B&N immediately and get cracking.
Yep I got the Big Book of Amber, excellent read.
I've got a copy of just about everything Heinlein ever wrote.
The Moon is Harsh Mistress and Time Enough For Love are probably the most dog-eared tomes on my shelf, aside from Stranger in A Strange Land.
Vonnegut is brilliant as well! Hocus Pocus is an oddly assembled, but gripping read.
The Amber series was my "Harry Potter." Friend of mine introduced me to it mid-series, and I had to wait (im)patiently for each of the last three books to be published. Of course, I'd read it within a day of it being released and then I was stuck waiting for the next one. 🙂
What I usually read is hard sci-fi though. Niven, Pournelle, guys like that.
Now this is a real "Belief Blog"...as in I "Belief" all these books are better than the bible. 🙂
I'm a huge fantasy nerd...favorite authors are Robert Jordan, R Scott Bakker, Joe Ambercrombie, George RR Martin etc. Heinlein and Bradbury were my first forays into scifi, and while I don't enjoy it as much as fantasy, I have to admit they're engaging reads.
Love the geekfest y'all, keep it up
Knock me all you want but I actually enjoy Orson Scott Card from time to time. He's not a particularly great writer, but I love the Ender series and the Worthing Saga was actually better than I think he meant it to be.
@Chuckles: I still have a bunch of the "Shadow of" books in the Ender series to read.
Read Card's Homecoming Saga too. From Wikipedia...
"The Memory of Earth (1992) is the first book of the Homecoming Saga by Orson Scott Card. The award-winning Homecoming saga is a loose sci-fi fictionalization of the first few hundred years recorded in the Book of Mormon."
I didn't know that till just now.
I couldn't get into The Memory of Earth – but the Alvin Maker series was thoroughly enjoyable.
See? You really can justify damn near anything with the bible if you try hard enough.
People who use the Bible to justify anything but doing good and being kind are liars and hypocrits. Don't let the few bad apples in the barrel make you think we're all bad.
Most christians I have met are good decent people. The problem is their twisted religious doctrines and dogma that compel them to meddle with our laws and social order and make them act like barbaric fools.
Is the "prawn" thing a District 9 reference? Just curious.
@Awkward – it is indeed.
I tried watching District9 and gave up in disgust. What a pathetic movie. Totally sucked. Didn't even watch the whole thing.
It was THAT bad.
This is wonderful. I love this, and totally agree in every way 🙂 Glory to God!
@warmsTghosT 12:01 before you laugh at me perhaps you had better do some reasearsh, when do you think humans started worshiping some sort of deity. I'm sure it was before the inventon of the wheel.
I already replied to you on the first page. Primitive/early humans did not have SCIENCE to explain the universe, therefore they applied anthropomorphic attributes (gods) to (then) unexplainable events.
Imagine living 4,000 years ago and being caught in an earthquake. You have no knowledge of plate tectonics or the movements of the planet, therefore you need another explanation for why your life is so sh1tty. VOILA! God did it.
It's a simple concept really, but you may just be too simple to understand it.
Bo, @warmestghost is correct.
In addition... People are sometimes sort of insulted by the fact that humans are social mammals. They seek a leader (of the pack, if you will), who has qualities of wisdom, benevolence, and the power to protect them from harm. These leaders range from leader of the family, to leader of the clan, to leader of the tribe, to leader of the nation or some other larger group unit. In primitive times these human leaders were even often considered to be gods or half-gods.
Since humans are aware that their lives will end, and they are not at all thrilled by this fact, they then seek an imaginary leader who will provide the same wisdom, benevolence and protection in a much hoped-for afterlife. It is not surprising that they envision this leader with human-like characteristics of love, anger, wisdom, benevolence, etc.
Gods can do *anything* in this fantasy. It's a real easy answer to explain the unexplained.
Bo, neither one of those answers answered your question... so here
Hinduism: Since Sanskrit is the oldest written language, as far as religion being written down, and as far as organized religion is concerned, it would be Hinduism. It is said that when Rama appeared, according to our calendar, was a million or so years ago (not sure of the exact date, but it's a long time!) And Krishna, God himself according to the Vedic scriptures, appeared here 5,000 years ago. Buddha, about 500 B.C., Jesus, about 2,000 years ago. If you go through the different religious book and study this question deeply, you will find out that Hinduism is the oldest religion of the world. There are no dates and facts, but its history is about more than 50000 thousands years ago.
Hinduism is the oldest religion still practiced. Signs that point to religious practice go back at least 35-40,000 years and arguably a lot farther.
thank you john, its always good to have others on the side of truth....even thou we may not always agree. 🙂
god knows i normally dont agree with idiots!
sry JohnR... wasn't me, i hit report abuse on it. no worries dude.
No prob, Hippy! The a short list of "usual suspects", but it doesn't matter.