Romney's faith a factor for GOP primary?
November 24th, 2011
12:03 AM ET

Romney's faith a factor for GOP primary?

By Rebecca Stewart, CNN

(CNN) – If half the public says they don't know very much about Mormonism and one-third of Republicans say the Mormon religion is not a Christian faith, how will GOP frontrunner Mitt Romney fare in his bid for the White House?

According to a new national survey, it won't affect Romney in a hypothetical general election faceoff with President Barack Obama, but his Mormon faith may have an impact on the former Massachusetts governor's chances in the GOP primaries and caucuses.

Romney is seeking the Republican presidential nomination for a second time and, as it turns out, opinions about his religion haven't changed since he ran the first time, in 2007.

A Pew Research Center poll released late Tuesday indicates that 52% of Americans said they knew "not very much" or nothing about the Mormon religion in 2007, when Romney sought the presidency for the first time, and 50% say the same now. The number who say Mormonism is a Christian religion-51%–is the same in 2011 as it was in 2007.

Full Story

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Mitt Romney • Mormonism • Politics • Polls

soundoff (413 Responses)
  1. LMB123

    AvdBerg – Seek and you shall find is good advice – seek in LDS.org or mormon.org. Don't you think that it just makes sense that you would get more ACCURATE information from the source instead of from the Church's enemies?(who are just desperately trying to hang on to their paid JOBS!)

    November 26, 2011 at 10:52 am |
    • AvdBerg

      The things we wrote about are all based on the Spirit the truth, whom the world cannot receive (John 14:17). We are not enemies of the Mormon Church. The Mormons are the enemies of the Cross of Christ as they serve after a false Christ (Matthew 24:24) in which there is no salvation.

      November 26, 2011 at 10:58 am |
    • Bob

      Here's a far better reference about Mormonism. Mormon silliness exposed:

      November 28, 2011 at 11:59 am |
  2. LMB123

    Jimtanker – I didn't say it would be a voice in your head. It may be just a feeling – but regardless of its form, the communication from God will be so overwhelming that you won't be able to deny it. Try it and see.

    November 26, 2011 at 10:43 am |
    • Jimtanker

      So you can get this "feeling"? And there is no rational explanation for it other than 'god did it'?

      Please excuse the other jimtanker on here, it wasnt me. Some tard troll.

      November 26, 2011 at 10:48 am |
    • Shaggy

      You're using my song JimTARD! I would sue you for that!

      November 26, 2011 at 11:04 am |
    • Jimtanker

      Ah ok, that so far more rational than Darwin's (Origin of the Species) pap anyway.

      November 26, 2011 at 11:08 am |
    • HeavenSent

      God gave all His children a conscious. Only when an individual blocks off their emotions is when God's thump in the head no longer applies.


      November 26, 2011 at 12:12 pm |
  3. LMB123

    SimpleReasoning – I like your comment. And for Bob – I will try some paragragh breaks just for you.

    Since it's pretty clear that we are all going around in circles just expressing different OPINIONS, I would like to challenge anyone to conduct this experiment:

    Read the Book of Mormon with an OPEN mind and not with a view to discredit it. Then, put its wonderful promise to the TEST. That is, to ask God with faith, and in the name of Jesus Christ, if the book is true or not. One more thing; while conducting this experiment keep all of the Ten Commandments in order to show God, that you are serious, sincere and worthy to receive personal revelation.

    If you do this EXACTLY the way I'm telling you, YOU WILL get an answer from God, which will be so clear to you, that you won't be able to deny it. (you will still have the choice to accept it or reject it, but you won't be able to deny it).

    Then, like 14 million Mormons, and counting, you will know the truth and you're life will be so much better. Ever wonder why the Mormon Church is growing at a phenomenal rate while other Christian religions have diminishing membership? When you conduct the above mentioned experiment you'll know why. But remember, you have to listen (because God does not like to force himself on us – he respects our free agency too much to force himself on us). He won't force anyone into heaven.

    November 26, 2011 at 10:22 am |
    • Jimtanker

      When most people hear voices in their head they normally seek psychiatric counseling.

      November 26, 2011 at 10:30 am |
    • Jimtanker

      GET OFF FROM ME!!!!!!!!!!STOP WHISPERING ON MY EARS!!!!!!!!GO AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


      November 26, 2011 at 10:44 am |
    • AvdBerg

      Romney’s faith is not in the true and living God but rather the god of this world (Matthew 24:24; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Gal. 4:8).

      The Mormon Church is no different than any other religion and serves the same spirit. Why are the Mormons so determined to put one of their members into The White House? For a better understanding of the 180 year history of the Mormon Church and their hidden agenda, we invite you to read the article ‘Mormon Church ~ Cult and Spiritual Harlot’ listed on our website http://www.aworlddeceived.ca

      Seek, and ye will find (Matthew 7:7).

      November 26, 2011 at 10:45 am |
    • Bob

      A great expose of what Mormons believe:

      November 28, 2011 at 12:00 pm |
  4. SimpleReasoning

    Has anyone ever noticed that its not the Mormons accusing others of not being Christians. Ever gone to a Mormon church and heard a sermon about the evangelicals, catholics, methodists.....etc, and how they are supposedly horrible religions. I have met people from all walks of life and I see members from each one of these groups as christian. Thats why you will never find in a Mormon book store with books saying Anti-this group or Anti-that group. Partly because the LDS church does not pay its clergy so its not about the money. Yes the church does make large amounts of money but its obviosly voluntary and only used for its missionary efforts, printing of scriptures, and construction and maintaining of temples/ chapels. The mormons preach that the Church organized by Jesus Christ was restored by Jesus Christ himself. I find it funny that Mormon beliefs seem, to some, radical or extreme to some. Keep in mind Christians(including mormons) believe that a man from the sky was born in a virgin claimed to be gods son, walked around on water, and said that because he died that everyone would get an opportunity to go to heaven. Looking from a non christian point of view I would say that all this looks pretty extreme or radical. If I were a buddist asking what the difference is between Mormons and other Christians, what other explanation could you give other than One group believes that God spoke to man and instructed them and the other group thinks he is still speaking and instructing. In the end its all about Faith. Simple solution for me is to just ask God in prayer. If he says yes, then ok thats the way to go. If he says no, then alright... thats easy, dont go to that church. When did it ever become christian to think that prayer to God was a one way communication, other than a 2 way conversation. God guides thoughts and can influence us if we only listen.

    November 25, 2011 at 8:00 pm |
    • Bob

      Ah, that old "you're not listening" excuse. Surely a "god" can speak loudly enough for us all to hear, but so far no one has heard a peep from your big tooth fairy in the sky.

      Provide proof that god has ever guided thoughts, or has ever spoken to anyone. You'll be the first.

      And do try some paragraph breaks next time. Really.

      November 25, 2011 at 8:19 pm |
    • Abinadi

      Bob, you can know for your self. Simply take Moroni's challenge, who was the last prophet of the Book of Mormon: "4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

      5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things."
      I know by that challenge that God exists and so can you.

      November 25, 2011 at 8:26 pm |
    • Bob

      Abinadi, enough with the "just ask" bullcr@p already. It stinks, and god hasn't responded, ever.

      Provide your proof, or p!ss off with your crazy supersti-tions already.

      November 25, 2011 at 8:33 pm |
    • Bob

      and stuff your holey ghosts, please. It ain't Hallowe'en, and Christians haven't fully stolen that holiday, yet.

      November 25, 2011 at 8:36 pm |
    • Abinadi

      Oh, stop your whining, Bob. You are the one who posed the question. Either you want to know or you don't. What's the matter ? Are you too lazy to get off your behind and do it the real way as Peter did in Matthew 16:17? "17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven." God exists and he has told us how to prove it to ourselves. You are just too lazy to take the challenge. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you don't want the answer, don't ask the question!

      November 25, 2011 at 9:07 pm |
    • Jimtanker

      I can quote nonsensical bible verses too.

      Ezekiel 23:20
      There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

      November 25, 2011 at 11:51 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Jimtanker, you wrote "I can quote nonsensical bible verses too. Ezekiel 23:20
      There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses."

      Answer: You left out the subject, actions of what decisions (righteous or unrighteous) can be made, hence, what outcomes will be produced. Who cares? Right? Only the rest of society that has to put up with your selfish nonsense.

      No wonder you atheists haven't a clue to what Jesus wisdom is all about! You're too busy being lazy not reading, comprehending His wisdom. You fall back on taking scriptures out of context on purpose so you don't have to learn what He's written. When a Christian who is well versed in said passages posted, you atheists conveniently slink back to your so-called tried and true circular argument that God doesn't exist all so you can continue covering up your arrogance and laziness aka unrighteous behavior ... aka loving to be anti-social within society.


      November 26, 2011 at 8:54 am |
    • AvdBerg

      The Mormon Church was not organized by Christ but rather by by the spirit of man (1 Gal. 1:11,12).

      For a better understanding of the History of the Mormon Church and the spirit it serves (Luke 9:55), we invite you to read the article Mormon Church ~ Cult and Spiritual Harlot, listed on our website http://www.aworlddeceived.ca

      All of the other pages and articles listed on our website explain how this whole world has been deceived as confirmed by the Word of God in Revelation 12:9. The Bible is true in all things and is the discerner of every thought and the intent of the heart (Hebrews 5:12). The truth is that the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned (1 Cor. 2:14). This is why we call all of mankind to repentance.

      Seek, and ye shall find (Matthew 7:7).

      November 26, 2011 at 9:37 am |
    • Jimtanker

      Nonsensical people like me are good at quoting nonsensical verses but no other person that could do better than I do. I'm the most nonsensical person ever lived.

      November 26, 2011 at 11:13 am |
    • HeavenSent

      That prideful nature is going to bite you some day.

      November 26, 2011 at 12:15 pm |
    • Bob

      Abinadi, nope, I've read your sick holy book cover to cover. I probably know it better than you do.

      Now, have you done your regular bloody animal sacrifice or not? If not, your nasty big ass-hole in the sky will be very angry with you and he will torture you forever. Bend over and take it.

      November 28, 2011 at 11:58 am |
    • Thays

      Hey there would you mind stating which blog plaroftm you're using? I'm planning to start my own blog in the near future but I'm having a tough time selecting between BlogEngine/Wordpress/B2evolution and Drupal. The reason I ask is because your layout seems different then most blogs and I'm looking for something completely unique. P.S Apologies for getting off-topic but I had to ask!

      November 8, 2012 at 2:49 pm |
  5. Abinadi

    If anyone would like the facts about the Mormon church, they are respectfully invited to visit mormon.org. We believe in and love our Savior and invite anyone to join us in worshipping him.

    November 25, 2011 at 7:47 pm |
    • Bob

      Here's a far better reference. Mormon silliness exposed:

      November 25, 2011 at 8:37 pm |
  6. Mr Chihuahua

    This guy's face makes me want to slap the stage makeup right off it lol!

    November 25, 2011 at 5:44 pm |
    • John Richardson

      I was just thinking the same thing!

      November 25, 2011 at 7:20 pm |
    • Peace2All

      @John Richardson

      Hey buddy... I hope that you've been well, and had a great Turkey Day.


      November 26, 2011 at 2:08 am |
    • johnfrichardson

      Hey, Peace, good to see you again! Happy holiday time to you and yours. Hope to see you around more!

      November 26, 2011 at 9:25 am |
  7. HotNewsSplash

    Hot Air Ace posted:

    "Anyone who truly beliefs, as in is not lying to get votes, is not mentally competent.'

    News Splash replied to HotAirAce:

    "You're a bit out on a limb there Hot. That would mean almost all the past presidents, who said they BELIEVED, were not mentally competent. (???)"

    HotAirAce answered saying:

    "I suspect they were lying. Bush certainly wasn't competent..."

    In other words...True Believers that don't lie to get votes are mentally incompetent, on the ther hand, non-believers are mentally competent but are utter LIARS.

    Meaning...non-believers would lie just to get votes and on anything just to further their agenda.

    November 25, 2011 at 4:31 pm |
    • Bob

      IOW, just like believers.

      November 25, 2011 at 4:37 pm |
    • John Richardson

      Thanks for demonstrating your lack of mental competence. Nothing Hot Air Ace said implies that it is always or even generally true that non-believers would lie, whether to get votes or for any other reason. That SOME do is w/o question, and this should appall believer and non-believer alike.

      November 25, 2011 at 5:27 pm |
    • Answer

      The typical "believer's blaming syndrome" at work.

      "It can never be the believers fault because we are honest. So it is the non-believers who are liars."
      This line of thinking is so common to the believers. It's always funny to see them type it out. To place blame on anybody they can find to make someone else the scapegoat. How often have people of faith tried to twist things to their advantage by doing this routine – infinite times! It still goes to show how their morals really work. It's so wonderful to see the believers true face.

      November 25, 2011 at 6:02 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Of course I concur with John R, but given that the probability of a competent atheist getting elected is very low, I would rather have a lying athiest president than a mentally incompetent believer president.

      November 25, 2011 at 9:58 pm |
    • Jimtanker

      Atheists are utter LIARS! Nuff Said!

      November 26, 2011 at 9:23 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Answer, you babbled "The typical "believer's blaming syndrome" at work.

      "It can never be the believers fault because we are honest. So it is the non-believers who are liars."
      This line of thinking is so common to the believers. It's always funny to see them type it out. To place blame on anybody they can find to make someone else the scapegoat. How often have people of faith tried to twist things to their advantage by doing this routine – infinite times! It still goes to show how their morals really work. It's so wonderful to see the believers true face."

      Answer: Someone who calls themselves a believer and doesn't abide in His truth is in the same category as non-believers.

      Ghee, not to simple of an explanation for you is it?


      November 26, 2011 at 9:31 am |
    • Tom Tom Piper's Son

      And...they're like buttholes, it only takes one to incredibly stink.

      November 26, 2011 at 9:32 am |
    • HotNewsSplash


      Oh!!! you concur with John R, REALLY??!! I'M SHOCK! You must have been through a lot of hardship doing that. But too bad, your reply above says otherwise.


      You miserably got it wrong, I have blamed nobody. I was just trying to unveil some face full of saliva that he got by spitting up in the air.

      @John Richardson you said:

      "Nothing Hot Air Ace said implies that it is always or even generally true that non-believers would lie, whether to get votes or for any other reasonwhether to get votes or for any other reason. That SOME do is w/o question, and this should appall believer and non-believer alike."

      Kindly competently mentalize what the starting (pronouns) words of his two replies "anyone" and "they" referring to. Are they referring to "SOME", or to many?

      And if ONLY you truly have an inch of mental competence or even a little amount of common sense you would have been able comprehend that HotAirAce was insinuating that all leaders that are competent are lying atheists while all incompents, are believers like Bush.

      And you also said...

      "Thanks for demonstrating your lack of mental competence."

      It's always be my pleasure. But wait...I just can't help but notice that you and most (if not all) of your fellow atheists are enjoying facial washing by spitting up in the air. Do you make that a hobby?

      November 26, 2011 at 10:37 am |
  8. usurper

    Romney stuck 2 turkey legs up his rump, let them simmer for an hour then pulled em out and had a feast.

    November 25, 2011 at 2:47 pm |
  9. david

    It surprises me that his faith is a factor...


    November 25, 2011 at 2:37 pm |
  10. RonWhit



    November 25, 2011 at 1:46 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Mitt Romney's faith preaches MONEY.
      Prove to the clergy that you're paying up or you won't be allowed into the Temple to learn the secret handshakes/names/passwords/line dances etc. that are required to get past Joe Smith's judgement after death.

      November 25, 2011 at 2:01 pm |
  11. LMB123

    To The One True Steve –
    1. You place great value in the phrase "Mainstream Christianity" as if that is the only authorized "Christianity". The God we worship IS the same God you worship, we simply have additional information about him because he is not dead and continues to communicate with his children through prophets as he has done for thousands of years. Having more information about God does not make it a different God. We simply have a more clear understanding of his attributes, which make it a lot easier to have a real relationship with him. In Amos we read that "surely God will do nothing but reveal his secrets to his prophets". Our message to the world is that, that continues today, since the restoration of the full gospel of Jesus Christ, which occurred in 1830, after the predicted apostasy, prophesied by Paul in the Bible.
    2. You keep forgetting that we believe the Bible as well as the Book of Mormon. In our belief Jesus Christ is indeed supreme because he created the Earth under God's direction. In fact we believe staunchly that "no man can come to the Father except through Jesus". EVERYTHING we do is in fact in the name of Jesus Christ. In fact, before I joined this Church I investigated several other so called Christian religions and after much study and prayer came away with the clear conclusion that the LDS Church comes closest to the original teachings of Christ than than any other.
    3. Regarding the "third heaven" mentioned by Paul in the Bible, it is plenty of evidence that the practice did occur at the time the original gospel was being preached. Because it's the only place you'll find it in the Bible today, it also shows how many precious truths have been taken out of the Bible through the ages (apostasy). Did you know that in today's Bible there are SEVERAL references to books that used to be in the Bible but are no longer there today? That is another evidence for the need for the restoration of the gospel. In his wisdom God kept his original gospel buried in the ground until the fullness of times, where it would not be tampered with and corrupted by corrupted people. Throughout the ages there have been several dispensations, usually followed by apostasy. Joseph Smith stands at the head of this last dispensation when the Priesthood was restored, The Priesthood is the authority from Jesus Christ to officiate in the ordinances of the gospel i.e. baptism. What Brigham Young meant was that in order to enter heaven one has to be "reborn of the water", which means baptism from those in authority to perform such ordinances. Since that authority was restored through Joseph Smith in this last dispensation, in essence then, one has to accept that authority in order to progress. Nobody is going to be kissing Joseph Smith's hand to get into heaven. It simply means that they will have to be baptized by the authority that was restored through him. Regarding authority, that's what Christ anointed his Apostles with before he departed. As he pronounced that authority on them he said "whatsoever you seal on Earth will be sealed in heaven..." That authority was lost during the great apostasy (the dark ages), hence the need for it to be restored.

    November 25, 2011 at 12:01 pm |
    • Bob

      Try a paragraph break now and then, and we might actually read some of your cr@pola.

      November 25, 2011 at 5:21 pm |
    • SimpleReasoning

      Right on LMB123!

      November 25, 2011 at 8:03 pm |
  12. Reality


    • There was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.

    • There was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.

    • There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.

    • There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.

    • There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.

    • Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.

    • Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.

    November 25, 2011 at 7:23 am |
    • .........

      Useless bull sh it hit report abuse

      November 25, 2011 at 7:36 am |
    • Reality

      They are called the Infamous Angelic Cons:

      Joe Smith had his Moroni.

      "Latter-day Saints also believe that Michael the Archangel was Adam (the first man) when he was mortal, and Gabriel lived on the earth as Noah."

      Jehovah Witnesses have their Jesus /Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God;

      Mohammed had his Gabriel (this "tin-kerbell" got around).

      Jesus and his family had Michael, Gabriel, and Satan, the latter being a modern day dem-on of the de-mented.

      The Abraham-Moses myths had their Angel of Death and other "no-namers" to do their dirty work or other assorted duties.

      Contemporary biblical and religious scholars have relegated these "pretty wingie thingies" to the myth pile. We should do the same to include deleting all references to them in our religious operating manuals. Doing this will eliminate the prophet/profit/prophecy status of these founders and put them where they belong as simple humans just like the rest of us.

      Some added references to "tink-erbells".


      "The belief in guardian angels can be traced throughout all antiquity; pagans, like Menander and Plutarch (cf. Euseb., "Praep. Evang.", xii), and Neo-Platonists, like Plotinus, held it. It was also the belief of the Babylonians and As-syrians, as their monuments testify, for a figure of a guardian angel now in the British Museum once decorated an As-syrian palace, and might well serve for a modern representation; while Nabopolassar, father of Nebuchadnezzar the Great, says: "He (Marduk) sent a tutelary deity (cherub) of grace to go at my side; in everything that I did, he made my work to succeed."

      Catholic monks and Dark Age theologians also did their share of hallu-cinating:

      "TUBUAS-A member of the group of angels who were removed from the ranks of officially recognized celestial hierarchy in 745 by a council in Rome under Pope Zachary. He was joined by Uriel, Adimus, Sabaoth, Simiel, and Raguel."

      And tin-ker- bells go way, way back:

      "In Zoroastrianism there are different angel like creatures. For example each person has a guardian angel called Fravashi. They patronize human being and other creatures and also manifest god’s energy. Also, the Amesha Spentas have often been regarded as angels, but they don't convey messages, but are rather emanations of Ahura Mazda ("Wise Lord", God); they appear in an abstract fashion in the religious thought of Zarathustra and then later (during the Achaemenid period of Zoroastrianism) became personalized, associated with an aspect of the divine creation (fire, plants, water...)."

      "The beginnings of the biblical belief in angels must be sought in very early folklore. The gods of the Hitti-tes and Canaanites had their supernatural messengers, and parallels to the Old Testament stories of angels are found in Near Eastern literature. "

      "The 'Magic Papyri' contain many spells to secure just such help and protection of angels. From magic traditions arose the concept of the guardian angel. "

      November 25, 2011 at 11:23 am |
    • Brad

      Angels, to believers, are simply messengers from God: ἄγγελος means messenger. I think your problem is not that revelations from God sometimes come by way of Gabriel and his like, but with the claim that revelations ever come from God. Unless angels are special to you, it would be more direct to claim that God does not exist and therefore there are never revelations from him.

      November 25, 2011 at 12:03 pm |
    • Bob

      Brad, present one recent revelation from god. State your evidence that it was divinely caused. Evidence please.

      November 25, 2011 at 6:00 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Bob, that's easy. Read Mark 13.


      November 26, 2011 at 9:36 am |
    • Reality

      Many OT, NT and koran thu-mpers are actually thu-mping the rules and codes of the ancients like King Hammurabi and the Egyptians who wrote the Book of the Dead and who did NOT need revelations from angels or mountain voices to develop needed rules of conduct for us h-o-minids.

      "Hail to thee, great God, Lord of the Two Truths. I have come unto thee, my Lord, that thou mayest bring me to see thy beauty. I know thee, I know thy name, I know the names of the 42 Gods who are with thee in this broad hall of the Two Truths . . . Behold, I am come unto thee. I have brought thee truth; I have done away with sin for thee. I have not sinned against anyone. I have not mistreated people. I have not done evil instead of righteousness . . .

      I have not reviled the God.

      I have not laid violent hands on an orphan.

      I have not done what the God abominates . . .
      I have not killed; I have not turned anyone over to a killer.
      I have not caused anyone's suffering . . .
      I have not copulated (illicitly); I have not been unchaste.
      I have not increased nor diminished the measure, I have not diminished the palm; I have not encroached upon the fields.
      I have not added to the balance weights; I have not tempered with the plumb bob of the balance.
      I have not taken milk from a child's mouth; I have not driven small cattle from their herbage...
      I have not stopped (the flow of) water in its seasons; I have not built a dam against flowing water.
      I have not quenched a fire in its time . . .
      I have not kept cattle away from the God's property.
      I have not blocked the God at his processions."

      "The Book of the Dead was written circa 1800 BCE. 2 The Schofield Reference Bible estimates that the Hebrew Exodus from Egypt and the provision of the Ten Commandments on Mount Sinai occurred in 1491 BCE., some three centuries later. Many religious liberals, historians, and secularists have concluded that the Hebrew Scripture's Ten Commandments were based on this earlier docu-ment, rather than vice-versa."

      November 26, 2011 at 11:43 am |
    • Reality

      Mark 13 as with all the NT has been thoroughly analyzed by many contemporary NT scholars. Many of these schlolars have concluded that only Mark 13: 28-29 was uttered by the historic Jesus and said passage has no deep meaning.

      e.g. Professor Gerd Ludemann in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p 92, p. 694, " Mark here inserts the parable of the fig tree to admonish his community to wakefulness in the face of imminent end. No particular tree is meant, for definitive article is part of the style of of a parable. The piece has no relation to the person of Jesus.

      November 26, 2011 at 12:02 pm |
    • Reality

      Summarizing with a prayer:

      The Apostles' Creed 2011: (updated by yours truly and based on the studies of historians and theologians of the past 200 years)

      Should I believe in a god whose existence cannot be proven
      and said god if he/she/it exists resides in an unproven,
      human-created, spirit state of bliss called heaven??

      I believe there was a 1st century CE, Jewish, simple,
      preacher-man who was conceived by a Jewish carpenter
      named Joseph living in Nazareth and born of a young Jewish
      girl named Mary. (Some say he was a mamzer.)

      Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
      the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pontius Pilate,

      He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
      a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of

      Said Jesus' story was embellished and "mythicized" by
      many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
      and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
      Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
      grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
      and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
      called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.


      November 26, 2011 at 12:12 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Reality, you posted "Mark 13 as with all the NT has been thoroughly analyzed by many contemporary NT scholars. Many of these schlolars have concluded that only Mark 13: 28-29 was uttered by the historic Jesus and said passage has no deep meaning.

      e.g. Professor Gerd Ludemann in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p 92, p. 694, " Mark here inserts the parable of the fig tree to admonish his community to wakefulness in the face of imminent end. No particular tree is meant, for definitive article is part of the style of of a parable. The piece has no relation to the person of Jesus."

      Answer: I suppose you haven't a clue that these contemporary NT scholars are legends in their own minds, and like you, can't shelf their egos long enough to figure out His truth. I find it amazing so many of you go out of your way to trash Jesus' truth.


      November 26, 2011 at 12:21 pm |
    • AtheistSteve

      @ HeavenSent

      So something like 30,000 other Christian groups have incorrectly deciphered the mishmash of mind marbles that is the Bible but YOU have it properly figured out. Well now aren't you special. Pride is a sin too you imbecile. I'd say enjoy your roast time in Hell but fortunately for you it doesn't exist.

      November 26, 2011 at 12:44 pm |
  13. Reality

    Romney believes that the horn-blowing angel Moroni appeared to the con artist Joe Smith. Not good for someone who wants to be president of any group !!! Obama "mouths" that he is Christian i.e. believes in gay Gabriel and war-mongering Michael the Archangel and Satan. BO's support of abortion/choice however vitiates has Christianity as he is the leader of the Immoral Majority who are now the largest voting block in the country. Immoral Majority you ask??

    The 78 million voting "mothers and fathers" of aborted womb babies !!! (2012 -1973 Rowe vs. Wade = 39. 39 x 2 million = 78 million. Abortion rate in the USA as per the CDC is one million/yr.

    And the presidential popular vote in 2008? 69,456,897 for pro-abortion/choice BO, 59,934,814 for "pro-life" JM. The population of the Immoral Majority in 2008? ~ 70 million !!!!!!

    November 25, 2011 at 7:16 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Reality, that's why Jesus warned,

      Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.

      Matthew 7:13


      November 26, 2011 at 9:39 am |
    • Reality

      Matt 7: 13 as per many contemporary NT scholars was not uttered by the historic Jesus.

      e.g. See http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php?t-itle=163_The_Narrow_Door and Professor Gerd Ludemann in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p 153, ........" these passages are inauthentic and have been formulated by the community or by Matthew himself."

      November 26, 2011 at 12:09 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Reality, Ludemann is no different than many others that used Jesus to make a buck.

      Some day too, you too can own a Subaru!


      November 26, 2011 at 12:25 pm |
  14. LMB123

    To: The One True Steve: It appears you need a little clarification – so here it is:
    1. Mormons believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are three separate people because that is what Christ taught when he was on the Earth. The concept of the Trinity is an abomination put together 300 YEARS after Christ's death, by religious people hand picked by corrupt politicians of the day. It makes the definition of God such a conveluted mess that it makes it impossible to keep the first commandment "to love God with all your heart". How can you love an essense, a cloud a mist?? By making them all one it makes a mockery of the scriptures. Who was he praying to in the Garden of Gethsemanea – himself?? That's ridiculous. He said he and the Father were one (in purpose) because he also prayed that his disciples "all be one AS he is one with the Father".Obviously they couldn't all be one in body so he must have been speaking of one in purpose.
    2. It is true that we are all spirit children of God and therefore brothers of Jesus, but we are not equal to him because he was the first born in the spirit and also the only begotten of the Father in the flesh. He is obviously much more superior than we are because he was also the Savior. The Bible says that the faithful will be "JOINT HEIRS'" with Christ in the hereafter and therefore will inherit all that the Father has. Just like any loving earthly father wants the very best for his children, so our loving Heavenly Father also wants the very best for his children. That's just plain logic.
    3. Degrees of glory or levels of heaven, if you will, are mentioned in the Bible by Paul, who says that he had a vision and was taken up to "the THIRD heaven". We are not making this up – go read your Bible. As far as becoming gods the Bible also refers to us as gods. Also what is so hard to believe that our Heavenly Father wants us to reach to his stature just like I would like my kids to reach my stature. I don't feel intimidated if my kids reach my stature in life. I'll be very glad about that. Similarily God also loves his children so much that he wants us to follow in his foot steps. Christ told us to "be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect" – read that too in your Bible. Admittedly none of us will reach that level until eons from now. What did you think you were going to do in the hereafter? Sit on your cloud and play your harp for eternity? now, THAT's ridiculous. (and awfully boring I might add). So, my friend, check these things out in your own Bible. You might be surprised about the things you find in there. Most, so called Christians, defend the Bible to the hilt but hardly ever crack it open.

    November 25, 2011 at 12:37 am |
    • The One True Steve

      @LMB123 ...

      1. The Godhead ... The Holy Trinity ... The Father, Son and the Holy Ghost. Mainstream Christians believe that the 3 are 1. As you confirmed Mormons do not. Therefore the Mormons do not hold to a Mainstrean Christian belief.

      2. What I read in the Book of Mormon was that Jesus is just the first spirit child of the Heavenly Parents, the older brother with no major distinction until after birth. I'll go back and read again. Still it's all irrelevant, the point is that either way this is not a Mainstream Christian belief.

      3. Yes, Paul in 2 Corinthians 12:2 mentions "the THIRD heaven" but that is the only time it's mentioned. You make it sound like everybody in the bible is talking about it.

      Well at least Joseph Smith has been elevated to Godhood... Brigham Young the second Living Prophet of the Mormon Church said, "No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith… He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity and calling, as God does in Heaven" – Journal of Discourses.

      So accepting Jesus alone is not enough. You must accept Joseph Smith as well to get into heaven. Not a Mainstream Christian belief.

      Thanks for clarifying, but the conclusion is still the same Mormons are Not Christians.

      So now if you look at Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Mormons it's also clear that they don't worship the same God. Sure their Holy Books (stories) all use the same characters, but the God character has different personalities in each book. Just like the Catholics adopted Pagen traditions (Christmas, Easter ...) to make it easier for the Pagens to accept the new religion. The "Prophets" used the same characters to gain credibility, and then molded God in their image to satisfy their own needs. So not the same God ... Unless he has a multiple personality disorder .... Or simply doesn't exist ...

      November 25, 2011 at 3:12 am |
    • John Richardson

      The trinity is a clearly pagan concept. As such, it is pretty cool compared to a lot of the bible. But it's always hilarious to see Christians denouncing other Christians for not adhering to a view that is wildly inconsistent with the nature of Yahweh in the Old Testament and a clear importation from prevalent trinitarianism in contemporary pagan belief systems.

      November 25, 2011 at 9:54 am |
    • Chad

      @John Richardson: "But it's always hilarious to see Christians denouncing other Christians for not adhering to a view that is wildly inconsistent with the nature of Yahweh in the Old Testament "

      => what?? where do you get this stuff John? Do you really, honestly have no idea that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah foretold? honestly?

      – Jesus was with God in the beginning: Genesis 1:26
      – Jesus as the coming Messiah foretold throughout the OT, Genesis 49:10, Isaiah 11:10, Jeremiah 23:5-6, Micah 5:2, (Isaiah 7:1, and on, and on, and on, and on.

      November 25, 2011 at 7:06 pm |
    • Mr Chihuahua

      Persistent troll is persistent lol!

      November 25, 2011 at 7:13 pm |
    • John Richardson

      I get this stuff from the Old Testament and from those that believe in it. Jesus isn't the Jewish messiah and if he was, he wouldn't be part of some three-headed monster god.

      November 25, 2011 at 7:15 pm |
    • Chad

      John Richardson "I get this stuff from the Old Testament and from those that believe in it. Jesus isn't the Jewish messiah and if he was, he wouldn't be part of some three-headed monster god."

      => Whether or now you feel that Jesus is in fact the Jewish messiah (Christians do, Jews don't), the fact is that God, His Holy Spirit and the coming messiah are ALL integral to the OT. None of that is new to the NT.

      The only difference between Christians and Jews is that Christians believe the messiah has come, jews are still waiting..

      November 25, 2011 at 7:36 pm |
    • John Richardson

      A better way to put it is that the Jews are still waiting for a first coming, Christians are still waiting for a second coming and both will be waiting forever. But meanwhile, tell me where in the Old Testament it says that the Messiah forms part of a tri-part-ite god with Yahweh and some ent-ity called the Holy Spirit.

      November 25, 2011 at 7:45 pm |
    • Chad

      Exodus 23:21
      Pay attention to him and listen to what he says. Do not rebel against him; he will not forgive your rebellion, since my Name is in him.

      1 Chronicles 22:10
      He is the one who will build a house for my Name. He will be my son, and I will be his father. And I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.’

      Isaiah 42:1
      “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.

      Isaiah 59:21
      “As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the LORD. “My Spirit, who is on you, will not depart from you, and my words that I have put in your mouth will always be on your lips, on the lips of your children and on the lips of their descendants—from this time on and forever,” says the LORD.

      Ezekiel 39:29
      I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the people of Israel, declares the Sovereign LORD.”

      You should read the entire bible at least once John. Why do you spend so much time vehemently decrying that which you are unfamiliar with?

      November 25, 2011 at 8:38 pm |
    • johnfrichardson

      Yo, Chad, if you can hallucinate trinitarian doctrine in THOSE verses, ... Wow. Just wow.

      November 25, 2011 at 8:56 pm |
    • Chad

      Always helpful when you remember that the word "trinity" is NOT anywhere in the NT, rather it is a doctrine derived from passages such as this in the NT:

      Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" – Matt 28:19

      "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all" – 2 Cor. 13:13

      Old Testament:
      “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations. Isaiah 42:1

      Consistency, one of the many awesome attributes of the God of Abraham, who does not change like the shifting shadows..

      November 25, 2011 at 9:20 pm |
    • johnfrichardson

      Yes, the trinitarian doctrine is never asserted in the NT and those who uphold it have to justify it with verses like the ones you just quoted. That's pretty feeble. But the trinitarian doctrine flatly contradicts OT monotheism and those verses you cite don't even come close to justifying an OT trinitarian doctrine.

      November 25, 2011 at 9:33 pm |
    • Chad

      Here, I'll break it down for you

      Isaiah 42:1
      “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations.

      Here is
      1) my servant, <= Jesus Christ
      2) I , <=God
      1) my chosen one <=Jesus
      in whom
      2) I ; <=God
      2) I <=God
      will put
      2) my <= God
      3)Spirit, <=Holy Spirit
      1) him, <=Jesus
      2) he <=Jesus
      will bring justice to the nations.

      November 26, 2011 at 12:11 am |
    • Chad

      And, since you're not familiar with the bible, I should have introduced that breakdown by pointing out that Isaiah is in the Old Testament.

      November 26, 2011 at 12:13 am |
    • HeavenSent

      Actually Chad, there are Seven Spirits of God.

      Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, and from Jesus Christ.

      Revelation 1:4-5


      November 26, 2011 at 9:00 am |
    • johnfrichardson

      Even if we accept all your retro-fitting, calling Jesus "my servant" hardly makes him part of some tri-part-ite god along with Jehovah. Jehovah referencing "his spirit" doesn't validate the Holy Spirit in the trinitarian sense any more than say of someone that her spirit is broken makes her some sort of esoteric dual persona. What we have is another example of a Christian twisting words in the bible to suit preconceived doctrine. No one engaged in such dishonest business has any business being condescending the way you so enjoy doing. No kidding Isaiah is in the OT. Like all OT books, it is devoid of trinitarian doctrine. Jews aren't trinitarians. That should tell you something.

      November 26, 2011 at 9:20 am |
    • Chad

      @johnfrichardson "Jehovah referencing "his spirit" doesn't validate the Holy Spirit in the trinitarian sense any more than say of someone that her spirit is broken makes her some sort of esoteric dual persona."

      =>ah, but that's the entire point isn't it. This person you refer to as having her "spirit broken", can she take that spirit and put it in some other person? Whole different ball game when you are referring to actually having the ability to put your spirit in someone else (not in some symbolic sense as in "A Picasso spirit lives on in Noah Lyon's work" but in an actual sense as in Elijah, Gideon, etc, etc, etc...)

      @johnfrichardson "Like all OT books, it is devoid of trinitarian doctrine. Jews aren't trinitarians. That should tell you something."
      => Lets see:
      1. Jews believe in God the father? yes..
      2. Jews believe in the Holy Spirit as described in HUNDREDS of instances in the OT as being a "piece" of God that he gives to humans in special circ umstances to accomplish His will? Yes.
      3. Jews believe in the coming Messiah, the Son of God in whom Gods spirit will rest? Yes

      remember, the word "trinity" is NOT in the NT, it is created to describe the situation illustrated in 1-3. It's a distraction to focus on a word that isnt in the NT. Focus on the relationship between the father, the son and the spirit that the word was intended to capture.

      November 26, 2011 at 9:45 am |
  15. The One True Steve

    Quickly, 3 reasons Mormons are Not Christians...

    1. Mormons believe the the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost are 3 separate individuals.

    2. Before we are born we are spirts and brothers of Jesus... Read equal to Jesus.

    3. Uh ... Well ... Ahhhh ... EPA ... No thats not it ... Oh yea, there are multiple heavens and if you reach the highest level of heaven, you become a God yourself.

    They started with the same basic story then the "Phrophets" manipulated the rest to suit their own needs, wants and desires.

    Multiple stories using the same characters and different endings. Proof of God or proof that P. T. Barnum was right ... "There's a sucker born every minute" ...

    November 24, 2011 at 9:43 pm |
  16. Iqbal Khan


    November 24, 2011 at 7:33 pm |
    • Answer

      This is the usual religious crap. Congrats on wasting your life following it.

      November 24, 2011 at 9:35 pm |
  17. Iqbal Khan


    November 24, 2011 at 7:07 pm |
    • The One True Steve

      His next Video ... "How islam got me Killed" ...

      November 24, 2011 at 9:06 pm |
    • Julius

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      November 8, 2012 at 2:11 am |
  18. David Johnson

    To any person who has not yet drank the Kool Aid:

    As you read the preacher's or wanna be preacher's dribble, remember that a god has not anointed any of them with His truth. They can perform no miracles...except, making your money disappear. They have no knowledge of the future. No proof that any god existed in general, and certainly no evidence that their particular god ever existed.

    Some will spout verse after verse of of the bible, wanting you to believe that this is proof of what they are insisting is true. But it is only proof, if they can prove 1) Their god exists and 2) the bible does indeed contain the wishes of that god. None can do this. All the gods that have ever existed are just as likely to be "the one true god", as the present crop.

    Form a group and embrace Isis. With your belief and faith, Isis will jump to life! She will apparently begin to answer prayers... Isis will comfort the hurting. In fact anything Jesus can do, Isis can do just as well. Just like Allah or Krishna.

    The gods are all man-made.

    If you are thinking about listening to any religious nut, use your critical thinking. Often just realizing that god would hardly use the piece of crap trying to convert you, will be enough to save your sanity.


    November 24, 2011 at 6:46 pm |
    • ChrisM

      Again, the GOP/TP right wing religious ****** will give the election to the Dems. When will the GOP/TP nominate the "Best person for the job of POTUS" and stop with the religious crap.

      November 25, 2011 at 8:38 am |
    • David Johnson


      When the Religious Right looks for qualifications rather than who can put on the best show of being religious. 4 of the GOP candidates claim god told them to run. At best, this means 3 of the candidates are delusional or liars.

      George W. was a darling of the Evangelicals. He almost ruined the country. How did god let that happen?

      The Tea Baggers applauded when Perry talked about his low academic performance. As they did when it was revealed how many people Perry had sent to their deaths. The death penalty may be necessary, but it is nothing to applaud.

      The Republican Party is the puppet of the Religious Right and the rich. They have morphed Jesus into a blood thirsty demigod, that can't wait to get back to earth, to punish all those that disagree with the Religious Right.

      The Republicans use the "First Ep_istle of Paul to the Thessalonians", to justify their cutting programs for the p_oor and elderly. They ignore Christ's advice to the rich. The Republicans believe they deserve the wealth that they have.
      Maybe they do. Maybe god is blessing them. So, if the rich follow the words of Jesus, won't god bless the rich all the more?

      Who was the Messiah, Jesus or Paul?

      The Tea Baggers / Religious Right screamed "YES", when asked if a man without health insurance should be allowed to die.

      These Evangelicals should read The Parable of the Good Samaritan – Luke 10:25-37.

      The Evangelicals / Tea Bag Party don't want to please Jesus. They want to rule the country in Christ's name. The Christian Right is the American Taliban.


      November 25, 2011 at 1:53 pm |
  19. ppmdhotlanta

    I thought our country was about FREEDOM of religion????? Separation of church and state seems to be a big part of what we are about as a nation.
    What's the big deal if he is a Mormon???
    Didn't President Obama celebrate a Muslim holiday in the White House???
    We need Mitt Romney because he is a BUSINESSMAN...............who cares if he's a Hindu, Muslim, Jew or Agnostic???

    November 24, 2011 at 6:40 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      Anyone who truly beliefs, as in is not lying to get votes, is not mentally competent.

      November 24, 2011 at 6:52 pm |
    • News Flash

      You're a bit out on a limb there Hot. That would mean almost all the past presidents, who said they BELIEVED, were not mentally competent. (???)

      November 24, 2011 at 10:13 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      I suspect they were lying. Bush certainly wasn't competent...

      November 25, 2011 at 3:32 am |
    • ColdBreezQueenOfHearts

      "Anyone who truly beliefs,"


      Do you speak English, Darling?

      November 25, 2011 at 3:55 pm |
    • HotNewsSplash

      'That would mean almost all the past presidents, who said they BELIEVED, were not mentally competent. (???)"

      @News Flash

      Hot Air was saying that non-believers are utter LIARS. They would lie about anything to further their agenda.

      November 25, 2011 at 4:07 pm |
  20. hippypoet

    forget this stupidity... if his belief in any god dictates his actions he is not suitible to hold such a high office! A person of reason is needed, even a person who uses religious stories to gather from those who may have or not made a similar choices but they should not tell the person what is right and wrong – that is a modern understanding and always has been! It will be understood from this day to the end of the world as it has been since the dawn of time that whats accecptible is the "right" and whats the unaccecptible has always been the "wrong" of every time. But always one thing was held above all, the ability to see the issues at hand and deal with them even as new ones arise. THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE WE NEED AS A PRESIDENT. not this creature nor anything of his ilk...!!!!

    November 24, 2011 at 5:01 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      hippypoet, so you are suggesting we vote for an emotionally bankrupted robot from the atheist walk of death ... who hasn't a clue to learn or practice ethics and moral character values in their life, have no clue to their importance when making decisions for all involved? Well, in that case, we can empty out our bank accounts now and just write this spiritually dead, well without water our checks. Fat chance. LOL.

      November 26, 2011 at 9:09 am |
    • hippypoet

      Is morals and ethics synonyms with religion? If so, you being religious can be taken as an example, where does that leave us – scewed! If all religious folks are as moral and ethical as you then i would vote for anything but a religious person including a rock! At least the rock might demonstrate a knowledge of history if nothing else. 🙂 now go shoo you sad pathic fool who only knows hatred and bigotry...
      See i base my opinions on sound logic and reasoning with understanding not from a book of morals written when people believed in taking a stone and beating some one dead with it – but apparently you still think thats the right way to live.

      Come closer, my aim is that good...medium or large stone?....medium requires more thrown while the large only requires one good strike! pending your last words, i'm leaning towards the medium.....call it a stress reliever! 😉

      November 27, 2011 at 4:08 pm |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.