November 30th, 2011
04:28 AM ET

Belief Blog's Morning Speed Read for Wednesday, November 30

By Dan Merica, CNN

Here's the Belief Blog’s morning rundown of the top faith-angle stories from around the United States and around the world. Click the headlines for the full stories.

From CNN:

CNN: Gingrich meets with pastors in South Carolina
The first stop on Newt Gingrich’s three-day swing through South Carolina was a town hall-style event at a church in Summerville, where the rising GOP presidential hopeful answered questions from area pastors on a range of issues.

CNN Money: Want cheaper tuition? Find religion
With church membership dwindling and more families struggling to afford the cost of college, many private religiously affiliated colleges and universities are slashing tuition and offering incentives to attract new students - and to stay afloat.

Tweet of the Day:

From @sarahposner: Newt, ca. 1994: wanted a constitutional amendment overturning SCOTUS decisions on school prayer. http://bit.ly/vxLR5n

@CNNBelief’s follow of the day:

Barbara Hagerty, or @BarbaraHagerty, is NPR’s religion correspondent and though tweets are usually NPR stories, she is a wealth of information on the intersections of faith and politics.

Enlightening Reads:

Ethics Daily: New Bible Includes the Word "Immigrant," Brings Moral Clarity
The word "immigrant" now appears in a new translation of the Bible, replacing the word "stranger" or "alien."

Religion News Service: Churches Help Occupy Movement Survive Crackdowns, Winter
As Occupy camps nationwide deal with police crackdowns and the inevitable onset of winter temperatures, religious communities of all stripes are stepping in with offers of shelter and solidarity.

Christian Post: 'Live Nativity Scene' to Be Displayed at Supreme Court, Capitol Building
The Christian Defense Coalition and Faith and Action are publicly sharing the message of Christmas this season by sponsoring a live nativity scene in front of the United States Supreme Court.

Quote of the Day:

…the extending or holding of hands by the faithful should not be performed.

– Roger J. Foys,the Bishop of Covington, wrote this in a decree to his congregation. Foys went on to write that "only the priest is given the instruction to 'extend' his hands." Bryan Cones from the U.S. Catholic magazine wrote in response, "Bishop of Covington: Are you completely out of your mind? What harm does this practice possibly do?"

Today’s Opinion:

CNN: My Take: Is Tim Tebow performing micarcles?
When viewed from the perspective of “the world,” Tebow is, at best, a mediocre NFL quarterback. When viewed through the eyes of faith, however, he is something like the Second Coming of Joe Montana. And maybe Something More.

Join the conversation…

CNN: My Take: Defending TLC’s ‘All-American Muslim’ against Muslim complaints
For the last decade, Islam has been under a lot of scrutiny, and understandably so. When you’ve got terrorists all over the world declaring war on America and the West in the name of Islam, it’s only natural that people will have questions.
(The piece by Khurram Dara, author of “The Crescent Directive” has already garnered a lot of attention on Twitter, Facebook and in the comments section of CNN’s Belief Blog.)

- Dan Merica

Filed under: Uncategorized

soundoff (104 Responses)
  1. Mr. Widemouth

    Who Really Believes Jesus Existed Anyways?

    December 4, 2011 at 3:23 am |
  2. hippypoet

    the world is changing...is it for the better or worse – i can't tell...but toss me 10 tabs of lsd and i'll let ya know (i am very serious) but aside from that, there is no knowing beyond the shroud of the present illusion of reality. sad but true...all one can do is be kind and honest to those they encounter with the hopes they will continue the kindness... pass the blunt without concern of getting it back and the world can truly be a better place to live and breathe

    2 quotes from me, your friendly nieghorhood Hippypoet – "where you are now is where you've never been and will never be again." and "You can't change the world, only influence the world to change."

    November 30, 2011 at 4:36 pm |
    • Dude

      where do you get your wisdom from man. i mean its out there but its grounded dude. i think that is why people jump on you for the small stuff dude, don't sweat it! they are just too stupid. I read once you said you like John Wilmot right, well, "There are but two kinds of people, the stupid and the envious. The envious will like you in 5 years time, the stupid never will!" no worries bro.

      November 30, 2011 at 8:58 pm |
  3. AnnaMaria44

    All of you might have seen this last year; I heard about it soon after the order was signed. If not, please read it, the implications are pretty scary.

    November 30, 2011 at 2:22 pm |
  4. Nonimus

    (linked to from @BarbaraHagerty )

    November 30, 2011 at 11:34 am |
  5. Nonimus

    "Ethics Daily: New Bible Includes the Word "Immigrant," Brings Moral Clarity"

    Not sure I understand what clarity it brings. Immigrant has a specific, almost legal, definition that does not, in my opinion, fit with "foreigner or stranger or exile" or "alien." In other words, it is specifically, "a person who comes to a country to take up permanent residence" (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/immigrant). This can also be a foreigner or stranger or possibly an alien, but not an exile from this country. This is a country of immigrants so new immigrants may not be foreigners and immigrants may very well not be strangers or aliens.

    Actually, I have to wonder if this is backhanded way of emphasizing the *otherness* of immigrants in light of the current illegal alien controversies that seem to be making news recently. In other words, it equates the immigrant with "foreigner or stranger or exile" when they may very well just be 'new Americans', 'the latest Americans', or immigrants just like your great-grandparents.

    November 30, 2011 at 11:14 am |
  6. Kookla Fran and Ollie

    This is all such BS. These occupiers are just lazy pieces of dogShyt that only want to lay around screwing, getting drunk and high all day on YOUR dime. Most of them are bums who are being paid $10 daily to show up and sew discord.

    Nothing more nothing less. Hell the idiots have not plan. Send in the storm troopers.

    November 30, 2011 at 10:31 am |
    • mre

      Somebody sounds jealous.

      November 30, 2011 at 11:34 am |
    • Norman

      $10 – really? That's more than I get paid for jury duty

      November 30, 2011 at 3:15 pm |
    • Kaba

      Updated to v1.3 which includes a tray menu item to have LioneZZ Adfree run heiddn at startup. A minor thing per se but useful once you've configured program settings once and for all.

      October 8, 2012 at 9:47 am |
  7. WAR PIG

    The sooner the police move in with live ammo the better. Shoot all the pinko commie Ho-Mos.

    November 30, 2011 at 10:12 am |
    • William Demuth

      Pinko!! I love it!

      I haven't heard that since my old man died 30 years ago!

      November 30, 2011 at 10:18 am |
    • sam

      Holy crap, it's Archie Bunker!

      November 30, 2011 at 4:09 pm |
    • Meathead

      Aw, Arch, why you gotta come up with those same old tired lines...you forgot to add 'hippie'.

      November 30, 2011 at 4:16 pm |
  8. Bo

    In the early 1960s, Madalyn O'Hair, an atheist communist filed a lawsuit against prayer in public schools that made it's way all the way to the Supreme Court of the U.S. Since then there is a war being fought in our country today, not with guns and bombs, but with ideologies and bigotry. It's about what we think and how we are relating these ideologies to the public.

    This war has been ongoing for many years, it's ugly, but it's not likely to cease very soon.

    Atheist and (primarily) Christians have had a pitched battle of ridiculing and slandering one another, each claiming to be right and the other should “fall in line”. Atheist, with the very powerful ACLU have fought to keep any resemblance of the Judeao/christian religion out of public places. Conversely, Christians, in particular, have fought back and done all they can, it seems, to push their ideals out in the public.

    Is there or can there be any tolerance between the two?

    There can be, but it's not likely to happen, at least not in the near future. Both sides are too determined, too obscene. When Christians cease from “flaunting” their ideals in the public's eye, such as this group wanting to display the nativity scene in front of the the U.S. Supreme Court building, or some school teacher displaying banners in his class room reading: “In God We Trust” etc., or atheist. getting all bent out of shape when a student carries a Bible to school, or a group of students having prayer around the flag pole in the morning at school.

    When these confrontations cease then this “WAR” may come to a close. We need to quit the slandering and bashing of one another; we need to tolerate the one another.

    November 30, 2011 at 10:09 am |
    • William Demuth

      Religion is a disease.

      One does NOT tolerate disease.

      Either we grow up and become rational, or we slaughter each other.

      Civil War II is just around the corner.

      November 30, 2011 at 10:12 am |
    • J.W

      Christians all love each other. If there is civil war it will be between the atheists and agnostics.

      November 30, 2011 at 10:20 am |
    • hippypoet

      atheists and agnostics are in many cases the same people.... Many atheists came from religious backgrounds and wished to know then due to the knowledge found, left the belief in god behind... Yes, there are some agnostic religious people, but they still believe and therefore would side with religion, as the non believers either agnostic or not would side with the atheists. And the churches will find a way to separat the believers and by default give us atheists the upper hand as now we will face smaller groups lead by small voices instead of one group with one voice....the battle shall be epic!

      November 30, 2011 at 10:28 am |
    • J.W

      I personally don't want there to be a battle. We can find a way to resolve our differences peacefully.

      November 30, 2011 at 10:47 am |
    • jabbo

      The power is not in the ballot or bullet but in the blood (of Jesus). God has given all men and nations and everything in heaven and on earth to Christ. Men and women can either believe or go to hell.

      November 30, 2011 at 10:48 am |
    • Nonimus

      "...or atheist. getting all bent out of shape when a student carries a Bible to school, or a group of students having prayer around the flag pole in the morning at school."
      Not sure about *all* atheists but, the ACLU and most Atheists I know do not have a problem with student-initiated prayers or Bible studies. It is illegal, as far as I know, for a public school to initiate, sponsor, or encourage a religion or worship.

      November 30, 2011 at 10:53 am |
    • HeavenSent

      hippypoet, too funny as you assume you wrote something original "atheists and agnostics are in many cases the same people.... Many atheists came from religious backgrounds and wished to know then due to the knowledge found, left the belief in god behind... Yes, there are some agnostic religious people, but they still believe and therefore would side with religion, as the non believers either agnostic or not would side with the atheists. And the churches will find a way to separat the believers and by default give us atheists the upper hand as now we will face smaller groups lead by small voices instead of one group with one voice....the battle shall be epic!"

      Answer: It's all been written in the Bible ... the battle is when God returns and blots out evil.

      P.S. Fools that don't believe in God, loose.


      November 30, 2011 at 1:32 pm |
    • hippypoet

      Heaven... i never said it was original.. i did say in another post a while ago that NO ONE has had an original thought in a rather long time so that pretty much says it all right there...why are you being so childish... you had nothing to say so instead went to insult. why even post here then? this is where i call you what you are – troll!
      Oh and there is no god so no one will be coming to help you...YOU lose for being delusional.

      now shoo!

      November 30, 2011 at 1:42 pm |
    • lunchbreaker

      @ Heavensent

      Something else in the Bible:

      Matthew 5:22
      ...whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

      November 30, 2011 at 2:32 pm |
    • Brad


      As a Christian from an atheist-agnostic background It would seem, well, inconsistent for me to harbor ill-will towards non-theists. Christians I know find non-theists only mildly disconcerting. Hardly the stuff of civil war. Relax, visualize whirled peas.

      November 30, 2011 at 2:42 pm |
    • nown

      I thought up a new color the other day. Not just a new variation, but a totally new color.

      November 30, 2011 at 2:58 pm |
    • William Demuth

      I am pleased you are all so gullible.

      Frankly, if you study history you know that ALL Super Powers eventually fall, and the journey down is a bloody mess.

      It may be a fight your children or grandchildren fight, but America's future is preordained, as is todays religion!

      November 30, 2011 at 3:25 pm |
    • sam

      @HeavenSent –

      How loose are they, exactly?

      November 30, 2011 at 4:10 pm |
    • Curious


      Try ABILIFY 10 mg/day work your way up to 30 mg/day

      November 30, 2011 at 4:49 pm |
    • TruthPrevails

      "hippypoet said:
      atheists and agnostics are in many cases the same people."

      Then of course Heavenscent stepped in again with some babble about how HippyPoet is wrong. Surprise surprise!!!

      Heavenscent: if you had a clue you would understand what he is saying. When I say am an Agnostic Atheist, I'm am being both. I am also saying that no, I do not believe there is a god (thus my atheism) but you know what?? I can't be 100% sure (thus the agnosticism). So if you are being honest (lol) you would admit to being an Agnostic Theist-you believe you are right but even you're not 100% sure. To state that you are not that, is a Gnostic Theist...and then we know you're insane! There are Gnostic Atheists (better known as Militant to some) and I believe they are lying also. No-one can know for sure...that is the honest stance. You can hope all you want that you're right but until I see valid evidence, I won't believe.
      Gnostic-100% certainity; Agnosticism-maybe, maybe not; Theist-believes in god; Atheist doesn't believe in god.
      Rather simple..ya think??

      Now here's a little something for you: this is a borrowed piece from one of the facebook pages I am on so maybe you can help....no christard on there could get it right.

      1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
      2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
      3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness – Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
      4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
      5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to k.ill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
      6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than hom.o.s.exuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?
      7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glas.ses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?
      8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
      9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
      10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
      I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I'm confident you can help.
      PS...Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging!

      November 30, 2011 at 6:45 pm |
    • Mildred the Mouth

      When the hell are you people going to learn, THE PLURAL form of atheist, is ATHEISTS. If you can't even figure that out, why would anyone bother to read the crap you post ?

      November 30, 2011 at 10:32 pm |
  9. William Demuth


    I am surprised! Do you actually believe anything will change through peaceful means?

    I so often hear of the power of the ballot, but I suggest you might actually already know in your belly that it is bayonets and not ballots that determine the future.

    If one is poor and fighting an economic war, you are basically powerless unless you fight with other means.

    Many Americans are realizing this, and cycling through various approaches, but I truly believe that history teaches us change has a price in blood, and until that is paid nothing will change.

    Next year is 1968 all over, and I suspect a year that will change the worlds destiny.

    Your thoughts?

    November 30, 2011 at 10:02 am |
    • hippypoet

      i honestly believe change can happen thru peaceful means.. if only the thought of change because of the protest and that just gets the thoughts moving fine... but peaceful must be the way,or all we are doing is teaching our children that war is the only way – it is a way but not the way!

      November 30, 2011 at 10:06 am |
    • William Demuth

      Surprisingly spiritual for an agnostic!

      In a perfect world perhaps, but we are what we are.

      Once the economic bubble deflates, I shall do whatever I must to shelter my own, as I suspect everyone else shall.

      Its gonna be a hell of a year!

      November 30, 2011 at 10:16 am |
    • Power to the People

      At this juncture, violence would be very detrimental to getting things fixed. All it would do at this point is bring a large majority of people against us and rightly so. Violence is not on the menu however satisfying it would feel at the moment.
      No, we are fighting for legislation, for protection against injustice, for an end to corruption.
      The details are many. When I looked up what the OWS was really shooting for, I was shocked at how many things need to be changed that the movement has already listed.
      They are my people. They are Americans. We need to end corruption. We need to crack down on the robbers and thugs who have taken over our country!!!!

      November 30, 2011 at 10:18 am |
    • hippypoet

      spiritual perhaps... but i am a man of convictions and i will stand for i believe is right. I will fight and die for those beliefs, but i will first pursue a peaceful means before any physical action is taken!

      November 30, 2011 at 10:22 am |
    • DamianKnight


      There's not going to be any warlike crusade. There's not going to be any guns and bombs. Stop talking like some tired, old anarchist and realize neither religion nor atheism is going anywhere.

      November 30, 2011 at 11:18 am |
    • William Demuth


      Tired old anarchist?

      I like it!

      Alas I am old, but I am a nothing more than a sociopath with a nack for capitalisim.

      I actually don't care how it turns out. As long as I can continue to have all I need I shall percieve the current turmoil as a spectator sport.

      But rest assured, if need be, I could make McVeigh look like an amatuer!

      November 30, 2011 at 3:21 pm |
    • DamianKnight


      You're not a sociopath. You're ridiculous. You're not going to blow up any buildings, kill anyone or start any revolutions. You're just running your mouth in the hopes of getting attention.

      November 30, 2011 at 3:51 pm |
    • William Demuth


      You sound like my lawyer!

      November 30, 2011 at 4:01 pm |
  10. hippypoet

    so did anyone hear that the Occupy movement around some cities in the US are being taken out, legal means, but still taken down! Its a good and bad thng as they have made there point known, spread its message, and stayed longer then expected...but now they are becoming a mob instead of a peaceful movement. If they could only find more ways to do what they need to without interferring with day to day operations of the state they may still have some positive impact!

    November 30, 2011 at 9:35 am |
    • Death Trolley No. 9


      November 30, 2011 at 9:41 am |
    • Little Jenny

      YAY! We got him!

      November 30, 2011 at 9:42 am |
    • Jenny's Dad

      That guy sure had a dumb look on his face, didn't he?

      November 30, 2011 at 9:44 am |
    • Little Jenny

      I think he was trying to tell us to stop. Aren't people stupid, Daddy? Nobody can stop the Death Trolley!
      Yay Death Trolley!

      November 30, 2011 at 9:46 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      It is amazing that there have been simultaneous peaceful protests all over the world for the same cause – but what next?
      The world is now paying attention, so what is phase II? Nobody has a clue.
      It's very easy to voice disdain for the current system and much harder to come up with a viable alternative.
      The unfortunate truth is that this movement will likely fizzle out in the coming weeks/months for lack of direction.
      99% of the 99% will again be placated by distraction and anesthetization – the two great tools of population control in the modern world.

      November 30, 2011 at 9:47 am |
    • Jenny's Dad

      I guess some people never learn, Jenny. Good thing we have this Death Trolley to run them over with. Right?

      November 30, 2011 at 9:48 am |
    • Little Jenny


      November 30, 2011 at 9:50 am |
    • hippypoet

      i agree doc... it makes me sad to think they had a real messaeg and then fell apart due to a lack of forethought – atleast it was a peaceful protest up untill a point. But i must say in some areas the protesters were egged on by moron cops with spray paint and other stuff like it!

      I hope they regroup at a later date with with numbers and with a voice for the crowd so that there message doesn't get drowned out by the news media.

      November 30, 2011 at 9:51 am |
    • Thomas

      It hasn't fallen apart at all! Where the hell are you guys getting your misinformation? The OWS is still going full blast!

      November 30, 2011 at 9:55 am |
    • Power to the People

      Doc, have you even visited their websites? They have a plan, they have a strategy, they have goals and they are making massive amounts of progress!
      If you want anything to change for the better anytime soon, you'd better quit denigrating their efforts on your behalf and start supporting them instead!

      November 30, 2011 at 10:08 am |
    • hippypoet

      thomas, i meant only that its losing ground and any step backwards even if literal will cease the momentum . I am saying that there is still much strenght in the message and those willing to fight for it... but they need to regroup and rethink there way of action. We can do this, it just needs a central voice and better organization!

      November 30, 2011 at 10:11 am |
    • Power to the People

      hippypoet, the ebb and flow of a protest like this is all progress. There are no backwards steps. Even if you kill us all there are others to carry on the fight!
      Read up on how protest movements evolve and progress. The OWS movement is doing just fine. Individuals may come and go when they get discouraged or need to do other stuff, but the movement is here. The problems are here.
      But feel free to knuckle under and worship the power of corruption. Many do. That's why there are so many to fight.
      This is about law, about justice and fairness, about equality under the law and our civil and human rights goddammit!
      If all you've got is a bunch of mealy-mouthed defeatist bullsh1t, then you SUCK!

      November 30, 2011 at 10:28 am |
    • hippypoet

      wow, dude... i think you misunderstand... i am worried that the movement will cease. I am on your side... this is what i am talking about – your quickness to anger and jumpiness to get all pumped up... a true peaceful movement is not made up of people of that sort, but relaxed calm people. We may fee as you do on the topics you brought up but understand that further insult and angry actions will get nowhere...infact they may even turn the tides and the mass around at you instead of with you... "fickle is every crowd and worthy of caution" – cicero

      Just remember time is always on the side of the peaceful man, he may be killed by the murder will be remembered, but an angry man brings his own death upon himself and is justified in death for his actions and thats whats remembered about them. The message if a peaceful one MUST be pursued by peaceful means to the very end!

      November 30, 2011 at 10:34 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      I understand that the OWS movement is looking to minimize economic disparites via handfull of measures – IE: revoke the laws that grant corporations "personhood", cut the Delaware loophole that allows conflicts of interest, and separate commercial and investment banking systems like the U.S. did in the early 20th century.
      By neutering the corporate state, the hope is that wealth will be redistributed in a more even way.
      These are laudable goals – though unrealistic without specific plans for how to achieve them!

      Who, exactly, is going to play Robin Hood and give to the poor? In the midns of many who support free-market capitalism, that is tantamount to communism.
      While the global economy is teetering on the edge of collapse, what alternative systems could possibly be put in place quickly enough to prevent a total catastrophe should the current system be eliminated and/or substantially reworked?

      November 30, 2011 at 10:44 am |
    • hippypoet

      doc, that was very well put.. i believe if the fall happens – those countries that can stand on there own shall show the world how its done, then we by example shall start to thrive again.
      And as i said, the protest needs to regroup, rethink, and reform under solid leadership...one movement, one voice, more strength! Then all the groups have a forum where they can discuss things....so there can be a true message behind all the groups in all the cities thats the same message!

      As for the robin hood idea – well it cna't be left to those that are currently in power to give it to the masses...how about instead, we do a draft, like a war draft but with money being given away – say bi- quarterly so thats 8 people a year, and for the middle days of no give aways we do cedit checks on people who suppore families and give them a boost to there scores... thats only a start but they are ideas to build from at least!

      November 30, 2011 at 10:54 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Change is inevitable.
      We have been living in the shadow of the Reaganauts and their doctrine of de-regulation for decades now, with the apex of their influence and power having happened in the first decade of the 21st century.
      International economic enti/ties like the World Bank and IMF originally conceived to be non-partisan forces for good have been co-opted into profit engines for the corporate regime – a empire that is nearly nameless, conscionseless, leaderless yet ubiquitous.
      The 'trickle-down" theory has been discredited by base human nature – those who lust for profit and power will cede neither willingly. But they are extremely deft at distraction!
      Their great hope is that the attention span of the "unwashed masses" will wane, doubtlessly after some small concessions are made to generate some positive PR.
      But you're right HippyPoet – for the popular movement to keep its momentum and succeed in addressing economic disparity without resorting to violence, it needs a charismatic leader – something their enemy lacks.
      Unfortunately, without demonstrable progress in teh coming months, the movement is in danger of becoming a side-note – full of sound and fury but signifying nothing.

      November 30, 2011 at 11:14 am |
    • mre

      "signifying nothing"? At least we didn't go down without a fight. Unlike so many of you cowards who do nothing but sigh and say what a shame what a shame they don't have this or that!
      This movement started before Obama ran for office and it will keep going until there are none left to give it voice.
      Obama was supposed to be doing all the things we're protesting about but he is sitting on his ASS!
      Well, screw him and his lack of guts! Give us a better candidate from any side and watch as Obama loses in a landslide!
      But the Republitards only shove oily liars into the ring, so I guess it is up to the Dems to replace this obviously defective president with someone better or find the guts to implement the needed reforms that will help get our country out of the hands of people who neither represent us nor protect us from anything!

      November 30, 2011 at 11:48 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Neither party is going to offer up a candidate that suits you.
      To say that Obama has done nothing is to overlook the incredible mess he inherited!
      You can't just dismantle the current power structures. Before you oust the rascals, you'd better take a hard look at teh rascals vying to replace them.
      Vitriolic discontent, no matter how loud, will amount to nothing if you haven't a viable alternative plan with a resonable time frame. The type of massive change espoused by the Occupiers will take many years to effect, even in an ideal situation.
      It is a change that must span several presidential administrations.
      The movement can't wait on a messiah to be elected to the white house because that will never happen.
      The current elecotral system requires that a candidate wield vast wealth – which most often comes from special interest groups to whom the candidate thereafter owes allegiance.
      Politics takes money – and that kind of money only comes from the elites of the system currently in place – and they won't sacrifice their lucrative positions to placate what they see as nothing more than an angry mob that they hope will soon disperse.

      November 30, 2011 at 12:06 pm |
    • Zen and the art of Doc maintenance

      Doc, you say "must" like you think you have explored every possibility and are as all-knowing as the fundies god!
      There are no requirements that these changes be as slow as possible!
      But Doc knows all. Yes, Doc is here to save the day with his ambiguous and va.gue prophecy!
      Too bad you live elsewhere. I'd love to give you such a kick.

      November 30, 2011 at 12:12 pm |
    • hippypoet

      zen huh... i think not! and why are you so quick to anger... you talk like your part of the group protesting yet harbor much hatred... that won't serve! You are part of a peaceful protest and peaceful you should be or else all you do is work to tare down the protest from the inside...perhaps you realize this, perhaps not... but i you are apart of it, go and meditate so work your anger down to calm smiles or else you become just another problem! Zen – really, you shame the world of Zen!

      November 30, 2011 at 12:19 pm |
    • mre

      We're not looking for a messiah, just a regular person who is willing to run for office and do the right thing for once.
      Creating millions of jobs, which would give a major boost to the economy is by far the easiest to accomplish.
      Obama could do it within a week if he had the balls. I could do it if you gave me the power and authority.
      Stopping the corruption is a many-faceted problem but that doesn't mean it can't be done within a month or two.
      Some legislation, a Const.itutional Amendment, proper regulations in the right places, and a great number of vicious criminals put behind bars, and you'd be amazed at the changes we could see within a week, month, or year.
      However long it actually takes is not up to you, fortunately. Otherwise it would probably never happen at all.

      November 30, 2011 at 12:22 pm |
    • Brad

      Power to the People

      Is it defeatist to admit that OWS has no lever with which to bring about change? It's a grand symbolic gesture, inspiring, but there's no power in it. The entrenched moneyed powers have something you all want and think you need : money. As long as you are willing to take and spend US currency you are participating in their greed. Until you stop, and convince most everyone else to stop, then the game will be played as usual. Money will remain concentrated where it is now – in the hands of a few people who are probably disdainful of anything you are doing now.

      November 30, 2011 at 12:23 pm |
    • J.W

      mre the president cant do those things by himself. Congress has to be willing to work together as well. If the president had full authority probably a lot more would get done.

      November 30, 2011 at 12:30 pm |
    • Chuckles


      So which would you rather have, Communism or Facism? I'll take Communism, seems to be working for China right?

      November 30, 2011 at 12:34 pm |
    • J.W

      Oh I am not saying that is what I want. What mre seemed to be saying is that Obama could change everything if he wanted to all by himself. I am just saying that that is not true. But I do think that what we have is the best way. It is not perfect, but there isn't any better way as far as I can see.

      November 30, 2011 at 12:37 pm |
    • Chuckles


      Ha ha, yeah I know, I think it's stupid whenever I hear people blame something on Obama that is and always has been ostensibly up to Congress. For instance this whole super committee stuff. It's not Obama's fault or job what Congress does or doesn't do. All he can do it veto something if it comes out of Congress that he doesn't agree with. Is he really to blame at all for something that he had no input or say in?

      November 30, 2011 at 12:41 pm |
    • Zenny the Angry Zen Master

      You speak without thinking, you think without knowledge, you spout the most ridiculous and unrealistic nonsense, and you can't keep a single thing straight in your damn head. Almost every post of yours reflects this.
      If there is any shame going around, please rest assured that you are one of the most visible and obvious recipients for it that I have ever seen on the internet. You make huge mistakes about so many things it's a wonder you aren't dead from an overdose of some sort.
      You are the most bubble-headed pseudo-atheist I've ever seen. You shame yourself shamelessly and have the temerity to speak to me as if I were as dumb as you. Well Zen doesn't work like you seem to think it does. None of the religions work like you appear to think they do. You are so mis-informed and ignorant I have no doubt you would fit right in with the Republicans. Why don't you go over to their side? They love people like you.
      My scorn doesn't get much worse than that. Now that I've vented, it's your turn. What do you have to say for yourself?

      November 30, 2011 at 12:50 pm |
    • hippypoet

      LOL 🙂 you have made my day mr. zen man! i do love when people lose there cool and get all mad.. its cute! keep it up.

      November 30, 2011 at 12:52 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Zen whatever
      There is a large occupy movement in my city. There were just ejected from their protest grounds and are seeking a new place to gather.
      I say "must" because, once again, you cannot simply supplant the global economy overnight – especially when there is no proposal for an alternative system!
      We're talking about billions of people here! You can't just climb onto a mountain and proclaim that everyone is now free and equal – there will be enormous consequences, many of which will be inconceivable until they present themselves.
      You might think me defeatist, but what I'm trying to be is pragmatic.
      Global revolution can't happen overnight, and a half-a$$ed plan in such a situation is worse than no plan at all.
      This movement seeks to butt heads with entrenched power through the power of the common man – but if the plan at this point consists of megaphones and petrol bombs it will not succeed.
      To push legislation through the wheels of government is no easy task. What incentive can OWS provide law makers and profiteers to de-claw the coroporate megaliths?
      Threats of violence and/or public dischord will only instigate a crackdown on protesters.
      Did you see what happened in Toronto during the G20 summit?
      10 million American's marched a decade ago to protest the impending invasion of Iraq – but it happened anyways.
      And Bush's half-a$$ed plan to destroy to existing regime without having a viable plan to pick up the pieces afterwards has been catastrophic for the Iraqi people, not to mention international opinion of america.
      In order to find a non-violent starting point for the necessary changes you espouse, you must bear in mind that your enemy i s not a villain in their own eyes. If you treat them as such, they will respond at best with indifference and at worst with violence.
      Why do you believe it to be a simple task to create millions of jobs?

      November 30, 2011 at 1:40 pm |
    • J.W

      The occupy movement is in Canada too? I didnt know that.

      November 30, 2011 at 1:42 pm |
    • hippypoet

      J.W the movement is world wide, there was an article covering it a little bit ago.

      November 30, 2011 at 1:44 pm |
    • Doc Vestibule

      @Zen Whatever
      Knowing that fossil fuels are damaging and in limited supply, have you given up plastics and rapid transportation?
      Do you know anybody who has?
      Everyone will agree that we can't keep spewing toxins into the planet as we have been – indeed, there is nearly international consensus on that point – but has anybody actually been willing to bite the bullet and dismantle the exisiting structures?
      Has anybody been able to propose a viable alternative?
      How many people in the wealthiest countries do you think would be willing to seriously degrade their standard of living so that others can be more comfortable?

      November 30, 2011 at 2:07 pm |
    • Mildred the Mouth

      "all over the world for the same cause". I beg to differ. WHAT cause ? There are 100's of causes, and thus, NO cause. They are just disgruntled in general, just like the hippies 50 years ago. This too will pass, and they will discover that if they want real change, they will have to get down in there, do the nitty gritty hard work, in the trenches, and NOT just sit around "protesting", and "occupying". It's all very non productive. Name one change it has produced so far, except to waste our tax money, and clutter up the parks, and public spaces. Of course they are pi'ssed. Social Science teaches us that with this level of unemployment, there is social unrest. If they were busy with productive jobs, in which they were satisfied and challenged, they would not even think of living in the parks.

      November 30, 2011 at 10:41 pm |
  11. Doc Vestibule

    Death Trolley sounds like a great name for a metal band.

    November 30, 2011 at 8:56 am |
    • Death Trolley No. 9


      November 30, 2011 at 9:02 am |
    • Little Jenny

      Look Daddy! Canadians look just like us on the inside!

      November 30, 2011 at 9:03 am |
    • Jenny's Dad

      Yep. They also stand on the tracks just like everyone else too! Aren't Canadians great?

      November 30, 2011 at 9:06 am |
    • Little Jenny


      November 30, 2011 at 9:07 am |
    • Little Jenny

      Yay Canadians!

      November 30, 2011 at 9:08 am |
    • nown

      "Death Trolley sounds like a great name for a metal band."
      It's a not-so-neo-pagan ritual. i.e. neo-pagans that got stuck in the era of trolleys.

      November 30, 2011 at 2:25 pm |
  12. Segundo

    Missed m....kkkkkkkkk!

    November 30, 2011 at 6:59 am |
    • Little Jenny

      Yay! Go Death Trolley Go!

      November 30, 2011 at 6:59 am |
    • victim recruiter

      uh...I'll be right back.....with more people......just wait here.....!

      November 30, 2011 at 7:05 am |
    • gratuitous victim


      November 30, 2011 at 8:29 am |
    • Death Trolley No. 9


      November 30, 2011 at 8:31 am |
    • Little Jenny


      November 30, 2011 at 8:32 am |
  13. Jenny's Dad

    So who wants to ride the Death Trolley today? We have more victims!

    November 30, 2011 at 6:05 am |
    • Little Jenny


      November 30, 2011 at 6:06 am |
    • victim spokesman


      November 30, 2011 at 6:07 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      Sorry Jenny... no can do. The death trolley derailed after some Christian was unwilling to throw the switch and it piled into the poor 5 workmen.

      November 30, 2011 at 6:14 am |
    • Little Jenny

      Wow, that guy shouldn't have jumped in front of the Death Trolley! What was that he was trying to say before all the blood started spurting out, Daddy?

      November 30, 2011 at 6:40 am |
    • Little Jenny

      I think he was saying something about Christians, Jenny. Maybe there's some Christians up ahead!

      November 30, 2011 at 6:41 am |
    • Little Jenny

      Wow! How'd you do that , Daddy? You were me for a second!

      November 30, 2011 at 6:42 am |
    • Jenny's Dad

      Look Jenny! Quick! There's more people for the Death Trolley!

      November 30, 2011 at 6:44 am |
    • Little Jenny


      November 30, 2011 at 6:45 am |
  14. Primero

    Where are the bits of news from the atheist websites? There's quite a few out there. C'mon Dan! Let's see the dark underbelly of world religious news! You guys have been skipping most of it for the past few decades now. Notice I said "decades"?

    November 30, 2011 at 4:43 am |
    • Segundo

      You don't shoot very low, do you? CNN is like Fox. They don't have the guts to tell it like it is. No guts, no glory. That's why Obama is skidding down at the bottom of the polls. He has no guts and so his only glory is going to be that he was the first "colored" president who was just another limp noodle in office.
      CNN is lacking that certain something.......(music begins)....(cue lyrics)

      November 30, 2011 at 5:15 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      Well first of all it is the religious groups that put out all the krazy news worthy items, not atheist groups. And second this blog has often reported news bits about atheist billboard campaigns or atheist conventions that get protested by various religious groups or when atheists try to enforce legislation to remove offensive religious material from government and education. The fact is that atheist and secular group activities aren't all that sensational when compared to all the batsh1t krazy religious shenanegans and that's a good thing.

      November 30, 2011 at 5:43 am |
    • Primero again

      Uh, Steve...the atheist websites are prime sources for that batsh1t krazy religious news! That was my point! If you want to see the dark underbelly of religion, go visit the atheist websites. They are the only ones willing to display it to the world. Not CNN unless it gathers enough steam in the news cycle. Pretty rare stuff that makes it big enough to get plastered on the news. Most of it is shoved under the holy rug of shame. There's a lot of stuff under that rug. It's like a rug on top of Mt.Everest. Seriously.

      November 30, 2011 at 6:00 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      Check that Primero....I misread your post. Too early and I hadn't yet had my morning coffee. Besides we wouldn't want to scare away all the theists from this board. Who would we have to poke fun at?

      November 30, 2011 at 6:16 am |
    • victim recruiter

      Hey could I get you guys to stand over here for a second? The trolley will be coming by any minute now and I wouldn't want you to stand in the wrong place or face the wrong way or anything like that...really!

      November 30, 2011 at 6:50 am |
    • Death Trolley No. 9

      Ker-thump! Ker-thump!

      November 30, 2011 at 6:55 am |
    • Little Jenny


      November 30, 2011 at 6:55 am |
About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.