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Perry hits Obama for war on faith, despite a ghost of 'holiday season' past
December 7th, 2011
04:54 PM ET

Perry hits Obama for war on faith, despite a ghost of 'holiday season' past

By Kevin Liptak, CNN

(CNN) – Rick Perry doubled down on his religion-based attack of President Barack Obama Wednesday, saying the president was preventing students from celebrating Christmas in schools. But just last year, Perry issued a holiday statement as governor of Texas that omits any mention of the Christian holiday.

In an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, Perry said Obama and the political left were waging a "war on religious traditions," including preventing students from praying in schools and having Christmas parties.

"What we're seeing from the left, of which I would suggest to you, President Obama is a member of the left and substantial left-of-center beliefs, that you can't even have a Christmas party. You can't say a prayer at school," Perry said in an interview airing on CNN's "The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer."

But in a holiday statement to troops issued by his office on Dec. 22, 2010 and posted on the governor's website, Perry fails to mention Christmas at all, sticking instead to more general terms like "holiday season."

FULL STORY

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- Dan Merica

Filed under: Politics • Religious liberty • Rick Perry • TV-The Situation Room

soundoff (273 Responses)
  1. Ungodly Discipline

    To whomever was asking me about the Big Bang:

    First of all, I am not an athiest, but I do not believe in the God of religion. That is just silly. Clearly no one know what came before the Big Bang. Most likely the Big Crunch.

    Nobody knows how life started. But we do know it did, and it evolved and humans are one of the results of that evolution and humans have been around for a couple of hundred thousand years.

    If there is a God, it is not anything like the silly superst itious Gods of religion. It would perhaps be some force that creates rules, but not always the same rules. The rules could be different from one universe to the next. Hence there could be many Gods. As many Gods as there are realities.

    It should not come as a surprise that we exist given that these "rules" would eventually over the course of billions, perhaps trillions, perhaps for infinity produce every possibility. We are a possibility so naturally, we are here. See?

    December 8, 2011 at 12:13 pm |
    • Ironicus

      Having been an agnostic like you, I read your post and felt a bit nostalgic for the old days before I became an atheist.
      Fence-sitting only makes your ass look like an alien orifice. Don't worry, I'm not after your virginity, just trolling.

      December 8, 2011 at 12:31 pm |
    • Mike from CT

      Please expain

      **If there is a God, it is not anything like the silly superst itious Gods of religion**

      **It would perhaps be some force that creates rules, but not always the same rules

      **It should not come as a surprise that we exist given that these "rules" would eventually over the course of billions, perhaps trillions, perhaps for infinity produce every possibility. We are a possibility so naturally, we are here. See?

      -------

      So then it should also no be a surpricse that if some force creates the rules for each universe that the rule be "Believe in Him, as you have fallen short of His standard"

      I would love to play poker with you one day, every hand I get is a four of a kind.

      December 8, 2011 at 12:53 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      I hope we can agree to disagree Ironicus. None of us know the truth of the Cosmos and it seems unlikely that we ever will to the extreme. A "God" could come in any form. In a multi-verse of infinite possibilites, a God or Gods' could exist. But again, I don't imagine we would recognize it if we saw it. It would be quite beyond your experience and perhaps even beyond our senses. So I don't believe in the God of Earthly religions, those are clearly invented, but I don't rule out that Sally Struthers is on the other side of a singularity poking holes in the fabric of space either.

      December 8, 2011 at 12:59 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Mike said "So then it should also no be a surpricse that if some force creates the rules for each universe that the rule be "Believe in Him, as you have fallen short of His standard"

      A. I don't believe a God or Gods' are "HE"
      B. I am referring to Physics, not your Bible nonsense.
      C. Thanks for playing our game.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:03 pm |
    • Ironicus

      Sure, UD. If you want to agree that we disagree, but I don't think we disagree all that much.
      From where I stand, you are just taking things to extreme and ridiculous lengths by going beyond what can be reasonably supported.
      And, yes, you might as well posit silly nonsense since you are so unwilling to rule things out when they have no supporting evidence or when there is nothing to suggest such nonsense.
      Your cosmic Sally is a good example of this. Why not posit a cosmic unicorn? The thing is, you're going off the deep end in a bid to cover all bases and avoid facing the truth.
      Any definition of a god must needs have a reasonable chance of being true, or why bother?
      I'm not saying there couldn't be some sort of multi-dimensional creature but it would not be a god. It would be a creature that evolved in a multi-dimensional way, like us, but there is nothing to suggest that we would need to pretend that it might exist without proof, right?
      Because that would be soooo ironic, wouldn't it?
      Get it? You are being religious about pure speculation. That sort of position cannot be supported using facts. More irony.
      It just never stops.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:25 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Ironicus,

      That is not true. Some of my post was tongue in cheek but I am sure you understand that, however much of what I have said may one day be supported by science. There are theories but not proofs, so I enjoy thinking about them. My destiny is the same as yours. I will die, lights out, end of story. But I would love to see behind the curtain. Additionally I use the term "God" for lack of a better word. I agree with you on that point completely. Finally my over-arching point is simply that no one knows anything. I can accept that. You can accept that. Religious folks not so much.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:36 pm |
    • SeanNJ

      @Ungodly Discipline: You said, "Additionally I use the term "God" for lack of a better word."

      We need to find better words, because the true believers are far too ready to pounce with a "SEESEESEE?!?!?!" when loaded terms are used.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:56 pm |
    • Ironicus

      "no one knows anything."
      Well, that's where we disagree isn't it? I happen to know some things. You deny that you know anything. Okay, I guess that will work and I would disagree with you again but I see we are now dancing around word definitions.
      I suppose you would cavil over the word "know" and stomp on the ground about it. I used to be like that and grew out of it.
      I know there is no god and you agree. But there is a place we are not agreeing. That's okay. You seem a reasonable fellow, so I'm not going to bang on about it. I just wish there was some way to get some things through people's heads.
      Irony again. It just never stops.

      December 8, 2011 at 2:11 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Sean
      Agreed. From now on I will use "Unknown Energetic Quant i t y "

      December 8, 2011 at 2:12 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Or "Stick Bug"

      December 8, 2011 at 2:14 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Ironicus, you too seem fairly reasonable, but you are doing your fair share of dancing about. You know exactly what I meant by "no one knows anything". You are just being argumentative.

      December 8, 2011 at 3:47 pm |
    • Ironicus

      Actually I don't know what you meant but could only guess, having had similar ideas when I was a hardline agnostic.
      I mean really. What do you mean? "Nobody knows anything". That's not even good grammar.
      And yes, I love being argumentative when I see a badly thought-out position or post. I am often trolled quite easily but I get a kick out of most of it, so it works out okay for me.
      I would ask you how long you've been posting here and what other names you've used, but considering the way some kids run around in here it might be better if we didn't exchange previous names.....I get tired of having to change it every so often.

      December 8, 2011 at 4:01 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Ironicus
      In all dialects of English, the negative is attracted to a lone indefinate before the verb: Nobody knows anything. There is nothing wrong with the grammar. My position is very well thought-out. Ask me any question that fits my view and I can defend it. Finally, a agree with you 100% regarding your last sentence.

      December 8, 2011 at 4:13 pm |
    • Ironicus

      Oh noes! An English teacher! Quick! Hide the dangling participles! 😯

      So..."nobody knows anything" meaning there is no person who knows anything. You're calling everyone including yourself ignorant and deluded. Well, that's certainly debatable, but not without getting silly over the definition of "knowing" again.
      Good grief.

      December 8, 2011 at 4:26 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      There's no earthly way of knowing

      Which direction we are going

      There's no knowing where we're rowing

      Or which way the river's flowing

      Is it raining, is it snowing

      Is a hurricane a-blowing

      December 8, 2011 at 4:41 pm |
    • Ironicus

      Ah, you have started chanting. Is that a precursor to some sort of ritual sacrifice? Are you emulating the elves of Rivendell?
      .
      If you abdicate your position by declaring all knowledge to be illusion, then what of your arguments? They become bereft of all reason and meaningful discourse becomes closed to you for you have retreated beyond reason and logic to a land of random noises and nonsense. That sounds too much like hippypoet to be worth pursuing.
      Oh, no...don't tell me! .... 😮

      December 8, 2011 at 5:11 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      I like eggs.

      December 8, 2011 at 6:24 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Ironicus, I found humor in that you referenced "alien orifice" as "UD" has used that name.

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/09/holy-cities-face-threat-from-polluting-pilgrims/

      As well as Central Scrutinizer:

      http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/14/agreement-signed-to-rebuild-church-at-ground-zero/

      Amongst a dozen other names. Just another child lost without Jesus.

      Amen.

      December 8, 2011 at 11:47 pm |
  2. Lee

    "...there's something wrong in this country when gays can serve openly in the military but our kids can't openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school,"

    1. What is intrinsically wrong with allowing American service men and women, who are already gay, to state the fact that they are gay? As far as I can tell, nothing.

    2. Children ARE allowed to pray and celebrate Christmas in schools. Teachers and other state employees, however, must remain neutral on matters of religion to avoid respecting the establishment of one religion over others. It is simple and Perry is either stupid or a liar who intentionally spreads myths about school prayer to drum up support from the least educated among us (or both).

    December 8, 2011 at 11:51 am |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      He is both stupid and a liar so naturally he is a good choice for the Republicans.

      December 8, 2011 at 12:17 pm |
  3. J.W

    I wish Jesus would just come back and be our president. That would be wicked awesome.

    December 8, 2011 at 11:23 am |
    • Doc Vestibule

      Jesus isn't the right kind of Christian to get the right wing, evangelical votes.

      December 8, 2011 at 11:32 am |
    • AGuest9

      There is as much chance of that as Bob Cratchit, Grizzly Adams or Luke Skywalker being president.

      December 8, 2011 at 11:43 am |
    • J.W

      I think Doc is probably right. Jesus would be too liberal. He may even be labeled a socialist.

      December 8, 2011 at 11:50 am |
    • HotAirAce

      I suspect calling jesus a communist would not be incorrect.

      December 8, 2011 at 11:53 am |
    • Nonimus

      Can you imagine how Perry would describe Jesus' war on religion?

      December 8, 2011 at 11:54 am |
  4. George

    Why do so many atheists feel threatened by a man of faith (Perry or anyone else) being elected? If they don't believe, why do they care? Are they threatened by morality?

    December 8, 2011 at 10:28 am |
    • Chuckles

      Would you be worried about an atheist being elected as the most powerful man in the most powerful country in the world? Would you worry that this person would impose his morality, his views, his bias on a population of 300 million? We've seen what happens when theocracies and "men of god" run countries, it's a disaster. If Perry gets elected, he can be as christian as he wants, he can pray till his heart is content, but I expect him to a) represent all of America, not just christian america, b) make decisions for the good of everyone, not just christians c) respect the separation of church and state and not let his religion interfere in any decisions pertaining to the US

      December 8, 2011 at 10:43 am |
    • claybigsby

      wow you are dense...it has nothing to do with what they believe and more to do with them implementing religious doctrine in their political policies.

      December 8, 2011 at 10:54 am |
    • AtheistSteve

      We're not threatened, we're disgusted. What morality? You think people of faith are morally superior to non-believers. Man have you been drinking the koolaid. The Bible doesn't teach morality...it dictates laws. Laws created by an ignorant ancient culture. Moral decisions are based on a process of ethical choices that lead to the best outcome for self and others. I'll pit secular morality against the barbarous inflexible poison of religious faith any day. Despite what you may believe things are not always black or white and there can be more than one viable solution to many moral dilemmas. It is precisely because of the rigidity of faith based ideals that intolerance, bigotry and hatred exist against people who don't agree with you. The fact is that in most cases we would agree because morals are for the most part common sense...life is preferable to death, pleasure is preferable to pain, health is preferable to illness...etc. But the moment you begin stepping on the rights and freedoms of others based entirely on dogma and not facts you are no better than a tyrant.

      December 8, 2011 at 11:11 am |
    • TR6

      “Why do so many atheists feel threatened by a man of faith”
      No we are not threatened by a man of faith (Gandhi for example). But we are frightened of christian nut bags. We suffered through the incompetence and arrogance of Carter and Bush and have learned our lesson.

      Besides, even the bible says you cannot serve 2 masters. I don’t want a president who is working for someone else instead of the American public

      December 8, 2011 at 11:26 am |
    • AGuest9

      Equating morality with religion is disgusting. Look at any prison. Look at the Middle East. Look at Palestine. PLENTY of religious believers in each of those places – not much morality. I don't want ANOTHER low-IQ religious wacko from Texas in the White House.

      December 8, 2011 at 11:40 am |
    • HellBent

      "Are they threatened by morality?"

      No, by a lack of it. Ever actually read the bible? It's not a moral book when taken as a whole.

      December 8, 2011 at 11:47 am |
    • Bob

      George really is that stupid and ignorant.

      December 8, 2011 at 4:08 pm |
    • Nancy

      George, sweetheart, you keep asking that question while avoiding the obvious... which, I might add, has been pointed out to you time and again on these blogs. We don't really care what "god" our President believes in, if any. The part that irritates, enrages and scares the beejeebers out of us is where ALL the teavangelicals like yourself shout about LEGISLATING your peculiar brand of "morality" upon the rest of the undeserving nation.

      You all have a perfect right to believe as you wish, but your rights END where mine begin. One of those is my freedom to be free from YOUR brand of "morality" and religion. Quit shoving your overwrought diatribes in my face and I'll be happy to leave well enough alone. Quit espousing the LEGISLATION of your religion and I'll gladly quit pointing out how irrational and scary you people are. Cease attempting to badger, bully, threaten and bluster others into believing that your fearsome "god" is going to wreak his vengeance upon us all, and I'll leave you alone, 'k?

      December 11, 2011 at 2:35 pm |
  5. AtheistSteve

    The depth of Rick Perrys dishonesty has no bounds.

    " you can't even have a Christmas party. You can't say a prayer at school,"
    WRONG. There is nothing at all preventing individuals or private businesses or corporations from having Christmas parties and anyone is free to pray in school or anywhere else should they so choose. The consit.tution explicitly protects your rights visa vie the First Amendments establishment clause. Freedom of religion and the right to free speech are YOUR guarantee, NOT the governments. This ensures that whether you are Christian, Jew, Muslim, non-believer or whatever you cannot be discriminated against by the state. This is a good thing and Christians in particular will be very appreciative of that fact when they eventually become the minority.(Yes I really think religious affiliation is on the decline).
    Perry's inane comments are in direct conflict with the principles espoused in the Consti.tution and that alone should disqualify him or anyone else for running for the POTUS .

    I'm a big fan of the Holidays. Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and Halloween cosplay are fun fantasy indulgences for children and adults alike. I'm also a big fan of Spiderman, Transformers and Star Wars...could we create fun holiday celebrations around these too? Being secular and eliminating religious dogma doesn't require abandoning the good things associated with Holidays. Getting together with family and friends, exchanging gifts,parties and feasts are laudable pursuits in and of themselves. If our societies were truly enlightened we would be celebrating holidays built around the true paragons of reason like Aristotle, Newton, Da Vinci, Galileo, Darwin, Einstein and Hawking. Men who actually contributed something real and meaningful to the human condition.

    December 8, 2011 at 7:33 am |
  6. Reality

    Once again bringing Mr. Perry into the 21st century with some added reading material:

    Christmas, the embellished story of the birth of a simple, preacher man named Jesus.

    As per most contemporary NT exegetes, his parents were Mary and Joseph although some say Jesus was a mamzer, the result of a pre-marital relationship between Mary and a Roman soldier.

    http://www.earlychristianwritings.com

    Jesus was not born in Bethlehem at least the one we are familiar with and there were no pretty wingie thingies singing from on high, no slaughter of the innocents by Herod, no visiting wise men and no escape to Egypt.

    Conclusion: the holyday of Christmas is historically a non-event. Ditto for the Feast of the Magi and the solemnity of Mary aka New Years day.

    Kwanza

    "Kwanzaa, which will be celebrated for the 44th time in 2009, was established by Dr. Maulana Karenga. The seven-day festival (December 26 – January 1) is secular, not religious, and aims to strengthen African cultural ident-ity and community values while providing a spiritual alternative to the commercialism of Christmas."

    Chanukah (Hanukkah)

    "Hanukkah, the Festival of Lights, is one of the most joyous times of the Jewish year. The reason for the celebration is twofold (both dating back to c. 165 BCE): the miraculous military victory of the small, ill-equipped Jewish army over the ruling Greek Syrians, who had banned the Jewish religion and desecrated the Temple; and the miracle of the small cruse of consecrated oil, which burned for eight days in the Temple's menorah instead of just one."

    "Originally a minor holiday, it has become more lavishly celebrated as a result of its proximity to Christmas."
    Some candles burn for weeks so the menorah "miracle" is hardly miraculous.

    Rabbi Wolpe can probably give us his take on the historical validity of Hanukkah.

    So after thorough analyses of the NT Christmas passages, what are a few of the conclusions of some of the top contemporary NT scholars?

    Matt 1:18-25: From Professor Gerd Ludemann in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, pp. 123-124, "The fathering of Jesus from the Holy Spirit and his birth from the virgin Mary are unhistorical". Ludemann gives a very detailed analysis to support his conclusions. One part being the lack of attestations to these events and the late time strata of said story.

    "Lüdemann [Jesus], (pp. 261-63) discounts Luke's account as a legend deriving from Jewish Hellenistic circles that were concerned to hold together the procreation of the Spirit, the authentic sonship of the Messiah and the virginal conception. "

    Then there are these additional conclusions:

    Bruce Chilton

    "In [Rabbi Jesus: An Intimate Biography] (2000), Chilton develops the idea of Jesus as a mamzer; someone whose irregular birth circu-mstances result in their exclusion from full participation in the life of the community. He argues for the natural pa-ternity of Joseph and finds no need for a miraculous conception. In his subsequent reconstruction of Jesus' life, Chilton suggests that this sustained personal experience of exclusion played a major role in Jesus' self-ident-ity, his concept of God and his spiritual quest.

    John Dominic Crossan

    "In [Historical Jesus] (p. 371) Crossan treats this cluster, like 007 Of Davids Lineage, as an example of the interplay of prophecy and history in the development of the Jesus traditions.

    "In [Birth of Christianity] (pp. 26-29) Crossan uses Luke's account of Jesus' conception and birth to explore ethical issues concerning the public interpretation of the past. He notes the tendency of Christian scholars to disregard "pagan" birth legends while investing great effort in the defence of biblical birth narratives. He concludes:

    I do not accept the divine conception of either Jesus or Augustus as factual history, but I believe that God is incarnate in the Jewish peasant poverty of Jesus and not in the Roman imperial power of Augustus. "

    "The following ancient parallels to Jesus' miraculous conception should be noted:
    Birth of Moses (Exod 2:1-10)
    Birth of Plato (Diogenes Laertius, Lives of Eminent Philosophers, 3.45) [see Acts of Jesus, p. 507]
    Birth of Alexander the Great (Plutarch, Parallel Lives, 2.1-3.5) [see Acts of Jesus, p. 502f]
    Birth of Apollonius (Philostratus, Life of Apollonius, I.4) [see Acts of Jesus, p. 505]"

    And some final words from Thomas Jefferson, not a contemporary NT scholar, but indeed a very learned man:

    "And the day will come,
    when the mystical generation of Jesus,
    by the Supreme Being as His Father,
    in the womb of a virgin,
    will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva
    in the brain of Jupiter.

    - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)
    Letter to John Adams, from Monticello, April 11, 1823.

    December 8, 2011 at 12:14 am |
    • .........

      once again asking thinking readers everywhere to hit report abuse on reality bull sh it

      December 8, 2011 at 8:16 am |
    • Mike from CT

      Can you please respond this time.

      What makes you think Jefferson was not a believer, attending prayer services held in congress in the 1800. This quote is no different the Eisenhowers quotes that people will one day deny the holocaust.

      Question, by your standard isn't Greg just spoucing hersay 2000... if you are so into truth, why don't you believe Luke, Peter, John and Matthew?

      Again Crossan has been shown time and time again to not have the qualifications at a NT scholar, see Lee Stroble's work and WL. Craig's work

      http://www.bringyou.to/CraigCrossanDebate.mp3

      December 8, 2011 at 1:00 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      mike if you cannot detect the quite sarcastic tone in that message and can possibly read it as supporting Christianity then no wonder you believe in invisible sky fairies!

      Attending congressional prayer services hardly shows faith, it does show social convenience however.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:05 pm |
    • Mike from CT

      Mark, I never noted sarcasm in any of Reality's post. Is that what it was all this time. Sarcasm usually doesn't get followed up by quoting bad books.

      As for attendance, you are absolutely correct, but you will be amazed what you will find when you start looking into the history of SOCandS

      December 8, 2011 at 1:55 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      "What makes you think Jefferson was not a believer"

      I was referring to the tone in Jefferson's note. Definitely not on par with predicting people would deny the holocaust. More along the lines of denying the tooth fairy.

      December 8, 2011 at 2:00 pm |
    • Mike from CT

      Mark, I have to disagree with you. Given the capitalization and respect given in the quote, and again Jefferson's history. I would say it is one of many that Reality take out of context.

      Reality you would agree right? just like the 30% of the NT is accurate quote then when you look into what makes up with the 30%, that the Gospel of Hebrews and Acts of Jesus (which were rejected) you understand how twisted the statement really is.

      December 8, 2011 at 2:29 pm |
    • MarkinFL

      Well yes, he was rather going on about how Christians were pretty much mucking up the whole thing with all the junk like virgin births, Jesus being a mystical god being.

      December 8, 2011 at 2:50 pm |
    • Reality

      Mike, (one more time at least)

      You will have to read the studies of contemporary historians and NT scholars to see how they decide the authenticity of historical events and passagess. Rigorous conclusions rely on the number of independent attestations, the time of the publications, the content as it relates to the subject and time period, and any related archeological evidence. Professors JD Crossan and G. Ludemann's studies are top notch in this regard.

      Some of Professor Crossan's studies and publications

      •Excavating Jesus: Beneath the Stones, Behind the Texts (Harper San Francisco 2001)
      •The Birth of Christianity (Harper San Francisco 1999)
      •The Jesus Controversy : Perspectives in Conflict (Trinity Pr Intl 1999)
      •Who Is Jesus? (Westminster John Knox 1999)
      •The Essential Jesus (Book Sales 1998)
      •Who Killed Jesus? (Harper San Francisco 1996)
      •Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography (Harper San Francisco 1995)
      •In Parables : The Challenge of the Historical Jesus (Polebridge Press 1994)
      •The Historical Jesus (Harper San Francisco 1993)
      •An Inventory of the Jesus Tradition by Chronological Stratification (online)
      •An Inventory of the Jesus Tradition by Independent Attestation (online)
      •Common Sayings Tradition in Gospel of Thomas and Q Gospel (online)
      •Seminar: HJ Materials & Methodology (online)
      •A Closer Look at the Mustard Seed (online)
      •Was Jesus Buried? (online)
      •Alchemy and Accuracy (online)
      •A Review of John Dominic Crossan's The Birth of Christianity (Harvard Theological Review 2001, reproduced online)
      •Danny Yee's Book Reviews: The Historical Jesus (online)
      •Simple Choices? A Response to John Dominic Crossan

      Some of Professor G. Ludemann's studies and publications:

      •Jesus After 2000 Years : What He Really Said and Did (Prometheus Books 2001) –
      •The Great Deception : And What Jesus Really Said and Did (Prometheus Books 1999)
      •Virgin Birth : The Real Story of Mary and Her Son Jesus (Trinity Pr Intl 1998)
      •What Really Happened to Jesus : A Historical Approach to the Resurrection (Westminster John Knox Pr 1996)
      •Heretics: The Other Side of Early Christianity (Westminster John Knox Pr 1996)
      •Resurrection of Jesus : History, Experience, Theology (Fortress Pr 1995)
      •Gerd Lüdemann on the Secular Web (online)
      •Gerd Lüdemann's Homepage (online)

      Based on your comments, you have not read any of the referenced books but instead are relying on debates as your source of rebuttal. I recommend starting slow with a book such as "Who is Jesus" working your way up to Crossan's The Historical Jesus and then Ludemann's Jesus After 2000 Years. You will be surprised at the detail these professors have gone to in order to get at the historical Jesus.

      December 8, 2011 at 3:35 pm |
    • Mike from CT

      Reality, do you read my post. I told you I have read the works of WL Craig (and NT Wright left that one off) as they explain the faults inherent to the Jesus seminar and why Crossan is not a scholar because he lacks the proper studies. His issue like Luden is to con temporize the text and create hypothetical instead of reading text in context.

      December 8, 2011 at 4:17 pm |
    • Mike from CT

      sorry I have been saying WL Craig but meant Craig Evans... Get my Craig's mixed up. Also your post never go back to the question which was on the misquote of Jefferson. Fall Back to a standard c-n-p post.

      December 8, 2011 at 4:20 pm |
  7. The Phist

    It would be delicious if these politicians could leave religion at the door. It seems as though they're trying to marry church to state. This in itself should require a swift banishment to the sun.

    December 7, 2011 at 11:52 pm |
  8. HeavenSent

    Jesus will choose who our next President will be.

    Amen.

    December 7, 2011 at 11:41 pm |
    • Aset

      oh, sweet goodness it's you

      December 7, 2011 at 11:54 pm |
    • TruthPrevails

      @HeavenSent: Off your meds again? I think you have this wrong...your sky daddy's incestuous son has no control over who gets in and for the sake of the USA and it's rational minded people we can only hope that Obama stays. You don't need another christard who will end up starting a war if he is elected. You need to realize that the USA is very secular.
      Btw: putting Amen at the end of your posts won't save your hypocritical ass in the end.

      December 8, 2011 at 6:21 am |
    • HotAirAce

      HeavenScent, let's assume you are correct – the next president is your god's choice.

      If Obama is re-elected, what does that say about your god's wishes?

      If Romney is elected, what does that say about Mormonism? Does it become the one true religion?

      If Newt gets anointed, what does that say about marriage?

      Etc, etc. for each candidate.

      Please do some "forward thinking" and educate us as what it would mean for each of the candidates to receive your god's approval.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:12 am |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Wait, HS, didn't Jesus choose Obama last time? What, did he make a mistake? Or was he sleeping in that day?

      You get more delusional with every appearance.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:27 am |
    • TruthPrevails

      @HotAir: Do you honestly think HeavenSent is capable of forward thinking? When Heavensent learns that this is the 21st century we can potentially consider that it might be able to start to think, until then we can only consider that HS lets its sky daddy think for it.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:39 am |
    • HotAirAce

      I'd like to believe that if someone can hear or read they can learn, but clearly in HeavenScent's case she (for some unknown reason, I've always thought HS is a she...) is pushing the limit. More than anything, my questions are just a cheap trick to get HS to expose her excuses in advance of when the next president doesn't meet her expectations, especially if/when it becomes crystal clear that her imaginary buddy had nothing to do with the outcome ('cause he, or any other god, does not exist).

      December 8, 2011 at 7:56 am |
    • TruthPrevails

      @HA: If the next president is not in accordance to HS's peti.te mind set, she'll just blame Satan. I'm wondering what she would think if the next president admitted to being an Atheist and ran the country better than any other christard president thus far. Would she leave the country? Would she repent for being such a hypocrite or would she be on her knees begging for the impeachment? I honestly don't think she clues in to the fact that becoming president does not mean one has to be of any belief system. She still can't get it through her one working brain cell that the USA is a secular country. It's sad!

      December 8, 2011 at 8:09 am |
    • HotAirAce

      Agreed! She has clearly put herself, and her imaginary friends, in a tight corner. Can't wait for the blustering to begin!

      December 8, 2011 at 8:16 am |
    • captain america

      The opinions of a bunch of loser canadians really doesn't mean sh it to American Government. Notice the majority of atheist types come from a third world country to our north. Someone should tell them to mind their own damn business.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:25 am |
    • jwas1914

      Sorry HeavenSent

      You commented that “Jesus will choose our next President…” Jesus never picks the next President. If he did then he would be making bad choices because the people are never happy with any of the Presidents this country has had in the past including the present one. Also if we analyze the Bible we will see that Jesus never involved himself in the political world. Take note: “Therefore Jesus, knowing they were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain all alone” (John 6:15). He never partook in politics because he knew that “man [was dominating] man for [their] own injury” and because “the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one” (Ecclesiastes 8:9; 1 John 5:19). For one to conclude that Jesus partakes into politics is saying that he has bonded with Satan the Devil, the one ruling this wicked world. It is no wonder why the influences and spirit of this world are all wicked, they take after their leader; Satan. Please read your Bible daily.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:29 am |
    • HotAirAce

      I'm beginning to believe Captain Asshole is another one of HeavenScent's monikers. Having lived in the USA and having numerous American friends, I didn't think the number of intolerant ignoramuses was that high.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:38 am |
    • HotAirAce

      Anyone have a thick hard goober for me to suck. Im a gay flaming idiot.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:40 am |
    • HotAirAce

      Fake HotAirAce, do you really think you have fooled anyone?

      December 8, 2011 at 8:47 am |
    • captain america

      In the words of a great American president," Don't come into my living room and pi ss on my rug ! " spoken by Lyndon Johnson as he had canadian prime minister lester pearson by the throat and lifted off the ground. What makes any pi ss ant canadian think they are any better here?

      December 8, 2011 at 8:59 am |
    • HotAirAce

      I don't think any canadian has claimed to be superior than anyone else. Why are you so over-sensitive and paranoid?

      December 8, 2011 at 9:03 am |
    • captain america

      canadian opinion on American issues is the dog sh it on the blogs sidewalks.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:06 am |
    • HotAirAce

      And LBJ's response to support for a halt in bombing in Vietnam so that alternatives could be discussed was the height of eloquence? Hey CA, how did that conflict turn out for you?

      December 8, 2011 at 9:13 am |
    • captain america

      The true canadian character comes out. Only an ass hole traitor would support canadians opinion on these blogs now that you have shown your true colours. Walk your stinking dog on your own sidewalks.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:19 am |
    • HotAirAce

      CA appears to be a "my country right or wrong" kind of guy. This thinking is entirely consistent with blind faith in The Babble. I assume that pointing out The Shrub's lies about WMDs so that he could exercise his manhood, and the waste of 4,000+ American lives in Iraq, is treasonous as well.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:27 am |
    • captain america

      You are walkin on the fightin side of me, and all God fearing Americans, you insignificant piece of dog sh it. We are the United States of America.

      December 8, 2011 at 9:41 am |
    • HotAirAce

      Dont be upset Capt. "It was a mercy killing, he had a sweet naive charm but no MUSCLE!!"

      Might I offer your throbbing member and oral massage?!

      December 8, 2011 at 9:48 am |
    • HotAirAce

      Fake HotAirAce, I won't pretend to understand the relevance of your quote, but I am reasonably certain, based solely on the pent up anger displayed here, that CA does not need any help with his member. Hevprobably has an arrangement with like minded buffoons so that he/they don't get too backed up, although it does seem he is in need of immediate stress relief.

      December 8, 2011 at 10:03 am |
    • George

      These rabid atheists are from Canada? Man atheists are like communists. They are seeking world-wide domination. We must hold tight to God in the good old USA. The atheists will never win.

      December 8, 2011 at 10:24 am |
    • captain america

      You are the man George !

      December 8, 2011 at 1:27 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      I wonder when HeavenScent is going to answer the questions here. She seems to be doing "A Herbie" – running away from hard questions, which would be most if not all for her.

      December 10, 2011 at 2:55 am |
  9. Aset

    The way I see it is Christians can proselytize and force their beliefs down others throats, but they get all offended when the tables are turned. Personally, I believe that faith should be a private thing.
    "War on religious traditions" Well, Mr. Perry, I'm sorry that there more than just Christians in the world and they want ya'll to get off your high horse

    December 7, 2011 at 10:15 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Nice take, except that ALL religions are nonsence.

      December 7, 2011 at 10:18 pm |
  10. Ungodly Discipline

    Hey George,

    Why don't you run for president? You have everything it takes. You are stupid. You are a ho-mophobe. You hate everyone except Christians. You love the wealthy an despise the poor. You would make a terrific criminal in office since you support special interests and religious bribes. You despise freedom and want to dictate how people behave, be it pro-choice, recreational drugs or religion/lack of religion. I think you could stand toe to toe with any of the idiotic candidates running for the Republican nomination. Do it George! Go get your piece of the American dream baby! Watch out for the corn hole though dude.

    December 7, 2011 at 9:34 pm |
  11. Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

    I will be voting for Perry.

    December 7, 2011 at 9:19 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Me too.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:21 pm |
    • TruthPrevails

      okay Tom Tom...is that voting for Perry so he can be as.sas.sinated?

      December 8, 2011 at 6:23 am |
    • Ironicus

      That would be ironic.

      December 8, 2011 at 12:36 pm |
  12. George

    From the article:

    "In an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, Perry said Obama and the political left were waging a "war on religious traditions," including preventing students from praying in schools and having Christmas parties."

    This is exactly why we need a Christian amendment to the const.itution. We need to establish that America is first and foremost a Christian nation.

    December 7, 2011 at 9:15 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      For once, I agree with you.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:20 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Right on George!

      December 7, 2011 at 9:23 pm |
    • Primewonk

      Why do you guys hate America? Why do you want to destroy our consti tuition? Are you ready for a (literal) blood bath?

      December 8, 2011 at 8:40 am |
    • Lee

      That is just downright anti-American if you ask me. There is a reason Jebus was excluded from the consti..tution in the first place; so any one religion didn't have any say in government and therefore power over other religions. Even if we decided to have a Christian government, which of the 38,000 sects' doctrines would we follow? Your short-sightedness boggles the mind.

      December 8, 2011 at 11:58 am |
  13. George

    All these articles about Perry overshadow the fact that Obama finally did something right today. He prevented the sale of the morning-after pill to anyone under 18. Finally! But why didn't he take it a step further and ban it completely? It's an abortion pill after all. Obama gave just a little to Christians and thinks that it will make Christians vote for him. We know he is pro-abortion and pro-ho.mos.e.xual. He's fooling no one.

    Meantime, people come on here and tear down Governor Perry.

    December 7, 2011 at 9:05 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      I am pro-choice and pro-equal rights. Obama gets my vote. You are a bigot, a ho-mophobe and mostly just plain stupid. Like ALL of the Republican candidates.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:13 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      George, you are dumber than a bag of hair. The morning after pill is NOT an 'abortion pill', as anyone with more sense than a doorstop knows.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:19 pm |
    • George

      Mark my words. Come election night 2012, there will be a conservative Christian elected to office.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:19 pm |
    • George

      @Tom

      It prevents a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterous. That's an abortion.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:21 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "Make no mistake." Really, do all conservatives act like idiots? Or are you just more idiotic than most?

      December 7, 2011 at 9:21 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No, muttonhead, it isn't. You can attempt to call it one, but you'll be as wrong about that as you've been about everything else.

      However, it hardly matters. It won't be banned, and neither will abortion. And all you'll be able to do is just what zealots like you have done for the past 3 decades: nothing.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:22 pm |
    • I am a person

      This isn't about the morning after pill but anyway here is my take on the situation. Are you suggesting abortion is right? Wrong? Should happen only until a certain stage in the development? Like anyone who paid attention in 9th grade science knows: an embryo, fetus etc. is in fact a living thing. Technically the sperm and egg is a living thing. Bugs are also living things yet we kill them everyday. Should we regard humans higher based on intelligence? If so when does said intelligence develop? These are all questions things to consider before taking sides on abortion and personally, I thing it should be aloud right up until when the unborn baby develops specialized cells (not just a few, I'm talking embryonic stage here). If you're too stupid to decide before then than that's your fault.

      December 8, 2011 at 1:40 am |
    • HotAirAce

      George, why do 700,000+ christians per year in the USA show their support for abortion rights by having one?

      December 8, 2011 at 7:16 am |
    • TruthPrevails

      @George: So no abortion, no morning after pill? Should they just consider women second class citizens while they're at it? What about those children being brought in to the world where they may not be wanted and therefore neglected, abused, starved, deprived of a proper education? What if the woman was ra.ped or impregnated by a family member? The problem with people who think as you do is that you don't look at the whole picture. The morning after pill only works the morning after...no woman can possibly know she is pregnant that quickly, so it doesn't really count as an abortion pill...if anything it is preventative but you wouldn't comprehend that. Have you not noticed what the worlds population is?? Why should a woman be forced because of religious thinking to carry on a pregnancy and cause more strife for an already exhausted economy? I'm not condoning using abortion as a means of birth control but I do condone a woman's right to choose what is best for her.

      I suggest you do more research on the morning after pill and make better use of your time than to as.sume you know what you're speaking of when you have your info wrong.

      December 8, 2011 at 8:03 am |
  14. Ungodly Discipline

    ED / ED II

    My problem with prayer in school is the following:

    1. These kids don't know what they believe. They are not old enough nor do they have the critical thinking skills or worldly experience to have made a decision about religion.

    2. Therefore their believe system comes from indoctrination (brain-washing) by their parents and other adults with like-minded beliefs.

    3. Leave these kids' brains alone and let them study. Prayer/Faith don't belong in school. I am paying for education, not brain-washing.

    December 7, 2011 at 8:13 pm |
    • Ed's Backup

      I don't need preaching to. I'm an atheist.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:22 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Sure you are, Backward. Sure you are.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:25 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Who is preaching? Do you agree or disagree with me?

      December 7, 2011 at 8:26 pm |
    • Ed's Backup

      I agree, hence the no need for preaching comment.

      Tom, you're just butthurt because you're so full of yourself you can't admit you screwed up. Deal with it.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:29 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      "Butthurt"? I'm unfamiliar with the term. Perhaps you could explain what it means, since you apparently have personal experience, Backward.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:37 pm |
    • Ed's Backup

      Uh oh, the "you have personal experience" insult. I don't know how to take it. Should I just say "I'm rubber and you're glue?" It's equally effective in that implies that I have a strong defense and words do not hurt me. It also implies I'm an idiot with no means of thinking of anything effective to stab with. Gosh, I don't know what to do! Choices.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:42 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Aww. Poor baby. Have a cookie.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:49 pm |
    • Ed's Backup

      Praise the bloody lord, more unoriginality! It's like listening to a broken record of Fran Drescher with a head cold reciting lyrics to Justin Bieber "songs."

      Ever considered finding an insult generator via Google? It might work for you. Go ahead, try it on.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:57 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Nah, it's more fun to irritate the bejesus out of you this way.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:06 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Ahhh. There's nothing like annoying some pompous jerk to work out the stress of the day. Thanks, Backward. It sure was swell of you to let me get the better of you! I appreciate it!

      Nighty night, honey.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:09 pm |
    • George

      "Therefore their believe system comes from indoctrination (brain-washing) by their parents and other adults with like-minded beliefs."

      Did you feel brainwashed when your parents taught you not to play in the street? How about when they told you to eat your vegetables? Parents TEACH their children. If you say that teaching about religion is brainwashing, where do you draw the line between what parents teach and when they pass over into brainwashing? I guess you would consider teaching them to be conservatives is brainwashing also? Where do you draw the line?

      December 7, 2011 at 9:10 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Thanks for lobbing me the softball there George.

      The line is drawn thusly:

      Fantasy: NO
      Good Advice: YES

      Whew, I had to work up a sweat on that one.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:16 pm |
    • Ed's Backup

      Hint hint, I'm not the one that's irritated. Nor am I the one that's pompous. That's your realm. It's echoed in every one of your posts. Man, talk about the pot and the kettle. Go on, run away.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:17 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Why run? You're the one who's complaining; I'm just having fun.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:20 pm |
    • Ed's Backup

      If you were having fun, you wouldn't be calling people names : )

      Everyone knows that you aren't having fun. You're just stroking your own ego here and try to make everyone else think you're having fun. We all know you aren't. Plus, you keep trying to defend yourself. Another giveaway! I love it.

      I on the other hand, am the one having fun.

      At your expense.

      : )

      That must suck! Have a delightful evening!

      December 7, 2011 at 9:25 pm |
    • George

      You think God is fantasy. He is real, and you will find out soon enough. Unless you repent, you will find out just how real satan is also. It's not too late.

      By the way, who are you to decide what's fantasy and what's real anyway?

      December 7, 2011 at 9:27 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      George, when you can prove to me that there is a God and a Satan and a heaven and hell, then we can talk. As is stands, you are delusional and have no credibility. It is not on me to prove God does not exist. It is on you to prove he does. You can't.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:46 pm |
    • Mexican burrito

      Then ungodly discipline: how did the big bang start? There was no matter correct? (although scientists have probably given up the no matter theory). If there was matter how'd it get there? Where's your proof of the big bang? Don't you dare tell me a constantly expanding universe! How did melted rock magically form life? The big bang suggests that we just popped out of nowhere. I'd like to see you blow something up and just see if you can make life out of it.

      December 8, 2011 at 10:32 am |
    • Chuckles

      @Mexican Burrito

      Do you understand what the big bang theory actually is? Judging by your comment, no, no you don't. The big bang theory states that ALL matter was condensed into a singualrity. It wasn't nothing, it was just super duper incredibly dense and then it expanded, not explode but expand. Next, the proof you want? Look at hubble images when we can actually look back in time and watch stars, galaxies and other celestial bodies move away from one another. Use physics and math and you can reverse these bodies and see the trajectory they've taken. If you want an answer to why the singularity just expanded out of no where, then you'll be sh.it out of luck, but I can say with a high degree of certainity, there was no god sitting around and thought ,"hmm, what if I just expanded this a little?" At least not any god that's been described in human history.

      December 8, 2011 at 10:39 am |
  15. Hasa Diga Eebowai

    You can pray at recess or in your head during class. If a magical being created this vast cosmos he can certainly read your mind. wow people are really crazy.

    December 7, 2011 at 6:28 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Or not pray since it is a useless waste of time. We should all be thinking about s e x!

      December 7, 2011 at 6:54 pm |
    • Scrapin

      What is s e x? I've heard of that somewhere....

      December 7, 2011 at 7:05 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      You can find it at the Spearmint Rhino.

      December 7, 2011 at 7:08 pm |
    • Sperminty China

      That's a shady strip club. I've lived in Vegas for many years and avoid that place like the plague. Most of the "women" that work there and at another one named after a spotted wild cat are in fact trannies, and not real females.

      December 7, 2011 at 7:25 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Sounds like you speak from experience! Good to know you are not praying. Watch out for the corn hole dude.

      December 7, 2011 at 7:29 pm |
    • Sperminty China

      Nah, my wife used to do makeup professionally and a few of her customers were trannies that worked there. They said that those two clubs are number one for trannies to work.

      December 7, 2011 at 7:38 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Trannies are hot...except for the tally-whacker thing.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:28 pm |
  16. PooCorn

    Yes. Because prayer in school is a relevant issue. Just like working to fix the economy amongst other things.

    December 7, 2011 at 5:54 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      PC
      There are a couple of type-o's in your post. I think you meant,

      "No. Because prayer in school is an irrelevant issue, unlike working to fix the economy among other things.

      December 7, 2011 at 6:56 pm |
    • PooCorn

      I was hoping my sarcasm made it through.

      December 7, 2011 at 7:26 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Relief.

      December 7, 2011 at 7:30 pm |
  17. Ungodly Discipline

    I am in favor of learning things in school based on reality. Religion is not. Good riddence.

    December 7, 2011 at 5:50 pm |
  18. Aset

    I really only want to ask one thing: If we allow prayer in school, whose prayer is going to be used? A Baptist's prayer is probably going to be different from an Episcopal's. Also, what about Wiccans, Pastafarians, Buddhists, Hindus, and etc. Do they get their prayers spoken over the intercom too? That would take to long, would it not? Personally, I would not have minded a moment of silence to say a little prayer or two. I, also, would like to point that people do pray in school, it is just not over the intercom. I don't know how many times I prayed: "please let me pass this test", or "please let me do good on these auditions", etc.

    December 7, 2011 at 5:27 pm |
    • Ed

      The problem his some schools have actually suspended students for praying in school, Anna Arundel county Maryland suspened a 6th Grader for say a silent prayer before he ate his lunch a few years ago. This violates both religious freedom and freedom of expression. It happened in other schools as well. I'm sure some of the people on these blogs would cheer this action. But religious freedom most be protected. I agree the moment of silence should suffice. Or just letting people pray if they want based on what ever religion they believe in. This most include all faiths of course not just Christian but also Buddist, Wiccan Jewish, Muslim, Hindu etc.

      December 7, 2011 at 6:57 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Do "Pastafarians" worship Linguini? I say that should be the mandatory prayer in school.

      December 7, 2011 at 6:59 pm |
    • Scrapin

      Ed, I don't believe you. Citations or links pleasej!

      December 7, 2011 at 7:03 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      My problem with prayer in school is the following:

      1. These kids don't know what they believe. They are not old enough nor do they have the critical thinking skills or worldly experience to have made a decision about religion.

      2. Therefore their believe system comes from indoctrination (brain-washing) by their parents and other adults with like-minded beliefs.

      3. Leave these kids' brains alone and let them study. Prayer/Faith don't belong in school. I am paying for education, not brain-washing.

      December 7, 2011 at 7:05 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      I looked for any story on a student in Anne Arundel being suspended for praying silently, Ed. Not one that I can find. I don't believe it ever happened. Unless you can prove it did, you're blowing smoke.

      December 7, 2011 at 7:10 pm |
    • Aset

      Ungodly Discipline, Pastafarians worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster; and I totally agree, it should be the mandatory prayer.

      December 7, 2011 at 7:25 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Sweet. Clams on Fridays!

      December 7, 2011 at 7:27 pm |
    • Ed

      @Tom and scrapin ok don't have a link for the Maryland case but here is an example

      http://www.whas11.com/news/education/Protest-outside-middle-school-after-student-is-suspended-for-reciting-bible-verse-87812142.html

      And

      http://hotair.com/archives/2010/05/23/student-suspended-for-bringing-rosary-beads-to-school/

      here's one from a college

      http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2010/05/students-suspended-for-praying-case-settled/

      here's an expulsion

      http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2007/mar/07030609

      December 7, 2011 at 7:39 pm |
    • Ed's Backup

      That's because Tom is an idiot. I spent three seconds on Google and found this:

      http://www.allschooltrends.com/2008/06/praying-student-suspended.html

      December 7, 2011 at 7:41 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You idiot. Since when is Chattanooga in Maryland, Backup? Ed has cited nothing remotely resembling neutral, unbiased sources, and you've done no better. I found that story-it isn't the one Ed is referring to. Get back to me when you learn to read.

      December 7, 2011 at 7:52 pm |
    • Ed's Backup

      And here we go with the whining insults... When you're done being a baby, let us know. Otherwise, go to your room.

      December 7, 2011 at 7:59 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Here's the statement from one of the blogs Ed cited:Hot Air is the leading conservative blog for breaking news and commentary covering the Republican primary, the 2012 election, politics, media, and culture.
      ---------

      Do you think that sounds neutral? Unbiased? Is a blog a credible source of facts?

      The only idiot here is you, BackUp. I suggest you back up to a classroom and get your GED.

      December 7, 2011 at 7:59 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      ED, this is a load of crap and I concur with Tom Tom. You are blowing smoke:

      First link: This is not the student you from Anna Arundel county you spoke of, and this girl was being obnoxious. She deserved it.

      Second Link: This is not the student you from Anna Arundel county you spoke of. And you don’t “wear” rosary beads. This kid is an idiot.

      Third link: This is not the student you from Anna Arundel county you spoke of, and they were praying IN CLASS. They deserved it.

      Fourth link: This is not the student you from Anna Arundel county you spoke of, and they were being disruptive. They deserved it.

      Ed's Backup Link (Ed's back up is an idiot): This is not the student you from Anna Arundel county you spoke of, in fact this is a lie. This county does not even exist. And if she was not paying attention in class she deserved to be punished.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:00 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Who insulted who? Check the timeline if you're stupid.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:00 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Ahahhahha! Good job, Ungodly. I didn't even bother to look up the mythical "Farrel County".

      Gee, the lengths trolls will go to.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:03 pm |
    • Ed's Backup

      Talk about daft.

      I'm not the one that needs to learn how to read. Let me know when you children are done taking this blog so serious.

      http://www.allschooltrends.com/ Maybe you should READ this time. Maybe you'll catch on.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:04 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Hey, Backup, I hope you spend more than 3 seconds researching your next post's content. Good luck and Godspeed, herbie. Or Mrs. Calabash. Or Swain.

      Guess I must have injured your little ego.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:05 pm |
    • Ed

      The Anna Arundel county student was something a teacher friend of mine told me about several years ago it may not have been in the news. I can't find a link but then all of the events in the world are reported in the news. I have no reason to disbeleive my friend. As for the other links they are examples of other suspensions ther are others and whether or not the deserved it is a matter of opinon.

      The fact is it does happen and it does violate the students rights to freedom oreligion and expression.

      I never said the sites were neutral but considering the state of the news groups today find one site that is neutral

      December 7, 2011 at 8:07 pm |
    • Ed's Backup

      Are you insane? The article I posted was a SPOOF. Are you seriously so full of yourself that you couldn't figure that out? Are you so blinded with rage that you couldn't see that from the article? Want to trade your college degree for my GED?

      December 7, 2011 at 8:09 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You and your "Backup" are both pathetic. If you can't find ANY widely-accepted news source to prove your tale, then you should simply stop attempting to pretend it happened. Students are not suspended for silent prayers.

      And Backward, when you find anything remotely credible, do post it. I'd love to see proof that you're not as stupid as Leaf or herbie.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:10 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Sure it was, Backward. Sure it was. Nice try. Fail.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:10 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Ed II
      You actually expect me to read the whole web site?? I would rather read a white paper on HTML 5.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:11 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Ed part deux had to back down (rather than back up) after he actually LOOKED at the site he linked.

      He probably relies on Cliff's Notes for the papers he has to write in order to obtain that GED.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:19 pm |
    • Ed's Backup

      I couldn't expect someone so self-important to bother themselves with reading two or three paragraphs. My sincere apologies with kindest warm regards to you, yours and the other. By the way Tom, it must suck thinking you're the king of the garbage pile only to fall flat on your face in stupidity in front of your fecal kingdom like that. I can't believe someone of your superiority couldn't figure out the website was a joke. Maybe if you had read the two little miniscule comments under that article, you'd have seen it for what it was. Attention to detail next time? Maybe a little bit? It's mysterious, isn't it? By the way, I don't who Ed is. I wish they'd ban prayer from the planet.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:19 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Don't lump me in with Tom. I'm nothing like that festering stinkhole.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:21 pm |
    • Aset

      @Tom

      Looks like you just got served. Right in your face. Go on, make yourself look stupid some more. It's rather entertaining.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:27 pm |
    • Ed's Backup

      Don't bother reading my spew. I don't have a brain in my head; I'm just a high school dropout who lives in my mom's garage and pees in the alley.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:27 pm |
    • Ed's Backup

      ST Eff up, Aset.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:28 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      It must take you a really long time to read two or three paragraphs, Backward, what with having to move your lips.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:29 pm |
    • Aset

      It must be lonely Tom, being married to a man that won't go near you. It must be lonely Tom, being self-important so much so that you have to come here to take it out on everyone you can. It must be terribly lonely. There's a bottle of pills out there that will cure the loneliness. Maybe Walgreens or CVS can give you a discount on bulk purchasing. Don't forget to purchase a bottle of water to wash it all down with.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:33 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Gee, herbie, you're busy tonight. What's the matter? Did your "date" spring a leak?

      December 7, 2011 at 8:39 pm |
    • Aset

      Not my post. Knock it off, troll.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:40 pm |
    • Aset

      Who is herbie?

      December 7, 2011 at 8:46 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      You are, troll.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:50 pm |
    • Aset

      Incorrect.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:58 pm |
    • Mangahorsegirl

      The Aset that is talking to Tom IS NOT the same one who wrote the first post and the one about the FSM.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:02 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      Yeah, I think everyone has figured that out except the troll. Poor thing. Sad.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:07 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Whoever is getting their jollies stealing our names not withstanding, you CAN lump me (CS) in with Tom Tom (LS). I think she is great. We are very different but she is very rarely ever wrong and enjoys sticking you with needles. More power to her.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:19 pm |
    • Mangahorsegirl

      @Ungodly Discipline
      Oro?what does that mean?
      RAMEN, to think I all I wanted to do was to point out that if one was going to have school sanctioned prayer, whose prayer would one use.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:31 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Mangahorsegirl
      Are you stupid? What are you talking about? It has already been established that we will worship the Spaghetti Monster.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:57 pm |
    • Mangahorsegirl

      I was asking you to clarify your post. It did not make any sense to mean. Sorry if I was unclear about that.

      December 7, 2011 at 10:21 pm |
    • HeavenSent

      Well looks who's back! It's "THE VICTIM."

      Welcome back, VICTIM. I see you've returned from your romp with Sandusky. Did his latest arrest interrupt your vacation together? You will be judged for your actions by the Lord.

      Amen.

      December 7, 2011 at 11:43 pm |
    • Q

      2 cents. Students do have the right to pray, but like all speech and individual religious expression, there are clear limits on time, place and manner. The examples of alleged infringement are pretty poor examples...

      December 7, 2011 at 11:48 pm |
    • Aset

      HeavenSent
      who are you referring to.

      December 7, 2011 at 11:55 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      HS was looking at itself in the mirror. Again.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:24 am |
  19. Lorem Nativitatis

    y'all-MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!

    December 7, 2011 at 5:21 pm |
    • Scrapin

      HOW DARE YOU!
      (just kidding -happy holidays!)

      December 7, 2011 at 7:01 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      I hate Christmas but I suffer through it every year so the kids can enjoy the festivities.

      December 7, 2011 at 7:06 pm |
    • Nativitatis meam

      Salve ! Benedictus Christmas vobis.

      December 7, 2011 at 9:03 pm |
  20. Fraotisc

    Two articles on the same thing? What the hell is wrong with you Dan Merica? Or is this Dan Gilgoff and Eric M.'s idea?
    Did everyone leave for the holidays and so we get random erratic posts now?
    Hello? Is there anyone there? Hello?

    December 7, 2011 at 4:59 pm |
    • Ungodly Discipline

      Agree, if I never saw that moron's face again it would be too soon.

      December 7, 2011 at 7:07 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      No kidding, UD. Perry is going down, fast. He'd love it if dead people could vote. He'd be out in the graveyards in no time, promising all of them eternal life.

      December 7, 2011 at 8:43 pm |
    • HotAirAce

      I think Perry is very christ like – he's a walking dead zombie that beliefs in tribal myths and doesn't know he's done. The more the Pubs make religion part of their platform, the more stupid they will look, and the more divisive the electorate will become 'cause everyone wants their own shaman at the top.

      December 8, 2011 at 7:44 am |
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About this blog

The CNN Belief Blog covers the faith angles of the day's biggest stories, from breaking news to politics to entertainment, fostering a global conversation about the role of religion and belief in readers' lives. It's edited by CNN's Daniel Burke with contributions from Eric Marrapodi and CNN's worldwide news gathering team.